Own or rent??

[The_Dover]

Do you own or rent your home?

Is the millstone of a 20+ year mortgage and being tied to one location worth it? And with NZ's horrendous interest rates and low salaries is it a viable option for many of us these days?

THE BOTTOM FIVE OPTIONS SHOULD READ OUTSIDE AUCKLAND - Can a mod please change??

[skelstar]

I rent outside auckland. Since seeing that house slip down the hill in Kelson/Wgtn it has strengthened my resolve to do avoid buying a house for much longer.

Its an interesting discussion to have though. Im shocked Dover :eek:.

[The Stranger]

You left off a few options there man.
Like buy, wait 5yrs for property to appreciate.
Borrow against this to purchase a property to rent out so as the rent covers out goings.
Wait 5yrs and do the same again.
Wait 5yrs and do the same again.

Money for nothing.

[Motu]

My lawyer sold all his properties,except one for his daughter - and now rents...also sold his business.He said to me - ''With the economic climate as it is in NZ,who in their right mind would be in business and own a house?'' I doubt he will retire a pauper,so obviously he has another plan....but interesting to see him dump his ''assets'',he's one of the smartests guys I know.

[The_Dover]

You left off a few options there man.
Like buy, wait 5yrs for property to appreciate.
Borrow against this to purchase a property to rent out so as the rent covers out goings.
Wait 5yrs and do the same again.
Wait 5yrs and do the same again.

Money for nothing.

Ahh, the good old slumlord!

The thing is you have to be able to crack the market in the first place to do this.

[Jantar]

I knew it. People who live north of the bombay hills DO believe that Auckland is New Zealand. This poll is proof. :gob:

[Lou Girardin]

The 526% return on investment in 4 years tells me that owning is a very good thing.

[placidfemme]

I rent in Auckland at the moment... but I do believe that despite the markets ups and downs, buying property is still a good investment if you investigate your options fully and get the right financial advise.

But then again I work for a property development company... so I would think that... its my job lol

[Blackadda]

I knew it. People who live north of the bombay hills DO believe that Auckland is New Zealand. Thsi poll is proof. :gob:

Yep and don' they know it. I'm outta jafaville in 3 weeks, gunna be a cunt.......tree boy, moving to the waikato and can't bloody well wait.:Punk:


Already ordered mi freindly sheep......:love:

[SimJen]

I own my own, a place in the country and wouldn't give it up for anything.
I'd rather be lining my own pocket than someone elses. Its all about where you buy though, and I for one would rather cut my balls off than live in AK.

[Rashika]

owned for years, will always do so. At least i know it is mine, I can do with it what I will, and wont ever get kicked out. Costs about the same if not a little cheaper than renting the equivalent house...but this is chch, not dorkland :dodge:
And one day it will be mine... ALL MINE!!!

[Motig]

Own 5++ years. Bugger paying all that rent for nothing at the end. That said if I was starting out now, theres no way I could afford to buy.

[Colapop]

The property market has seldom/very very rarely lost value. Net market prices have been increasing for the last 30 years plus including during the late 80's early 90's. You van lose money on a property but it's not in the sale value vs the purchase price, it's in the maintenance costs of both the property and the finance. If you are going to buy - use cash.

[The_Dover]

Ok, another question.

How many of you could actually afford, on a single income, a decent house in a decent area of Auckland in today's market?

[Colapop]

A decent income would have to be $100k plus and no kids or other liabilities.

[Lou Girardin]

You left off a few options there man.
Like buy, wait 5yrs for property to appreciate.
Borrow against this to purchase a property to rent out so as the rent covers out goings.
Wait 5yrs and do the same again.
Wait 5yrs and do the same again.

Money for nothing.

Then property values slump, rents fall from oversupply, vacancy rates rise. Your contribution to the mortgage becomes onerous.
And someone gets a real bargain from the forced sale.

[Joni]

THE BOTTOM FIVE OPTIONS SHOULD READ OUTSIDE AUCKLAND - Can a mod please change??done :yes:

[Sniper]

I'll leave the country before buying in NZ.

[kiwifruit]

bought 2 years ago in Taupo
make more in capital gain, over 2 years, than i have in ten years of working

best thing i ever did.

[Big Dave]

even if you take an 'interest only' loan and bank on the capital appreciation you'll do a lot better than renting and paying off someone else's loan.

You're not 'stuck' if you own the place - just the opposite - if you want to you can fuck off with options - sell it rent it - or have something to come back too.

Go halves in a place with a family member or mate if you can't raise the mortgage on yer own.

And every day sooner you do it you'll be better off.

[Squeak the Rat]

I'm on a good salary, have 15% deposit saved and I am not going to buy in the near future. I've calculated that I will be better off paying rent and saving a larger deposit. I can't afford to buy where I want to live and still have a life.

Sure I'm paying the mortgage for some one else, but hello - most of your mortgage payments (especially in the first 5-10years) are interest which goes to lining the banks pockets, not yours.

I also have trouble believing that property prices are going to rise too much more in the next 3-5 years. What with the economic climate and the interest rates, I'm going to wait a couple of years and see if there are any good bargains. It was a good property boom cycle, but I beleive I missed it. Economic cycles are a reality.

BTW - Have you seen how many rental properties are available? Every man and his dog jumped on the rental property bandwagon. People are going to start having trouble attracting tenants and paying the mortgage on these properties.....

[Big Dave]

I'll leave the country before buying in NZ.

Always good to let priciples stand in the way of common sense.

[RantyDave]

We bought in Wellington, six/seven years ago. It seemed like a completely insane amount of money at the time (we moved up from the arse end of Picton) but really glad we did. I guess technically we've just about doubled our money, but since if we sold the house all we'd do is have to buy another then I guess we realistically made nothing.

Couldn't afford to buy where we are now. Not sure we could afford to buy at all, to be honest - certainly wouldn't be money for motorbikes knocking around. Between the oversupply of rental properties, the interest rate, and a housing market which ... if not going to pop ... will certainly produce lower than historical returns over the next few years then I'm not sure it's a good time to own at all.

God alone knows how people are supposed to own their first home now. Must be very depressing.

Dave

[The Stranger]

Then property values slump, rents fall from oversupply, vacancy rates rise. Your contribution to the mortgage becomes onerous.
And someone gets a real bargain from the forced sale.

That is why I said 5yrs, not 2yrs as many do.

Usually your income rises to a peak around 45 and this will hopefully cover a potential bad period.

Rents usually increase and the property you have had for say 10 or 15 yrs will hopefully no longer need the large rent increase since this time and can be sustained on the lower rental value.

Sure what you say has happened in the past here and for instance on the Gold Coast. Banks were caught out badly at this stage too as they were killing the market with their mortgagee sales. They have wised up a lot and generally won't put themselves in this situation again. I.e. they wont loan to someone who is over exposed.

So between your common sense and the banks desire to not loose money I am sure the risk can be managed.

And what the hell - 9 times out of 10 the worst never happens and 9 times out of 10 when it does, it is not as bad as you thought anyway, so give it a go. Just don't over expose yourself.

[Sniper]

Always good to let priciples stand in the way of common sense.

Not that mate, but at my current salary and the way the market is going. I will never have enough to put a deposit on a house that is worthwhile and will apprieciate. If I was to get into it, it should be now, not in 5 or 10 years.

Its a bugger.

[Motu]

I have moved out of Auckland twice,a bloody good move both times - I hope I don't do it a 3rd time!

[The Stranger]

Ahh, the good old slumlord!

The thing is you have to be able to crack the market in the first place to do this.

Ok, if you buy and wait for a capital appreciation (how ever long that may be) you can use the capital appreciation to "crack the market". Looking at Lou's example, it may not be a long wait, but hey even if it is 10 or 15yrs, you are young, you got time.

Oh and watch the "old" shit ok.

[ManDownUnder]

Then property values slump, rents fall from oversupply, vacancy rates rise. Your contribution to the mortgage becomes onerous.
And someone gets a real bargain from the forced sale.

Yup... and the ones with brains are saving their cash right now... NOT taking on the high interest rates... and wait.

When the first of the crashes starts to happen... and they're not far off... go offer them some money.

Always do what the market wants - which is the opposite of what the market does. At the moment... people are still buying - so we SHOULD be still selling... but when they want to sell... do them a favour... at a favourable price.

[Lou Girardin]

Anyone thinking of buying should wait at least 1 1/2 to 2 years for the property cycle to hit the trough. Cycles are generally 7 years peak to peak.
There will also be the opportunity to steal something from a burnt investor, it often takes 3 -4 years for the pain to get too great for them.

[ManDownUnder]

Anyone else out there ever thought of forming an investment company for this stuff?

Let's say we get10 people, each with 30k (borrowed or saved - doesn't matter too much).

All throw it in the pot and buy a place... at a favourable time per my previous post.

Watch it go up in value and then ... I defer to CaN's wisdom... use the equity, and buy another... and another... and ... you get the idea.

There would have to be some pretty clear ground rules re cashing up/out of such a company but I don;t see it would be too hard.

[Big Dave]

Not that mate, but at my current salary and the way the market is going. I will never have enough to put a deposit on a house that is worthwhile and will apprieciate. If I was to get into it, it should be now, not in 5 or 10 years.

Its a bugger.

You could....
Clear any debts and weekly commits - you can get an 'undisclosed' personal loan for the deposit. (Usually at high interest - but it stops you paying rent which is 100% interest.)

Buy a shitter and do it up. then sell it - and then buy a better shitter. - it might take 3 or more goes to get to a good one.

I made most of my current equity from building new places in burbs where my mates said 'how can you live there'?

They are still renting in flats in Hurstville and I have a nice pad on a hill.

[Sniper]

You could....
Clear any debts and weekly commits - you can get an 'undisclosed' personal loan for the deposit. (Usually at high interest - but it stops you paying rent which is 100% interest.)

Buy a shitter and do it up. then sell it - and then buy a better shitter. - it might take 3 or more goes to get to a good one.

I made most of my current equity from building new places in burbs where my mates said 'how can you live there'?

They are still renting in flats in Hurstville and I have a nice pad on a hill.


I have played with that idea but never taken it into consideration because I have never met anyone who has. Might have a think about it and pick your brain sometime if thats OK?

[Big Dave]

Anyone thinking of buying should wait at least 1 1/2 to 2 years for the property cycle to hit the trough. Cycles are generally 7 years peak to peak.
There will also be the opportunity to steal something from a burnt investor, it often takes 3 -4 years for the pain to get too great for them.

Entirely disagree - 2 years worth of rent in AKL can be $30-50 grand - that would be much better in yer own equity regardless of the cycle.
Apart from that living with a landlord just blows arse. Property inspections, having to ask before scratching your nuts, the whole real estate agent deal.

[Big Dave]

I have played with that idea but never taken it into consideration because I have never met anyone who has. Might have a think about it and pick your brain sometime if thats OK?

gettin married dude - gots to plan for the little sniperettes and the pop gun action.

when I played this game you needed:

5% of the value of the house as deposit and a 30-35% of your gross weekly income available.
They figure 65% for tax food and living. so you have 35% of gross combined incomes to put toward a mortgage.
from this 35% you have to deduct hire purchase, visa, car, motocycle etc payments and what is left determines how much you can borrow.

If you have a car or bike on the drip - generally yer screwed - you have to be clear of debts. Often it meant selling the car.

Now work out how much rent you have paid over the time you've been in your place and do a rough calc on what house prices have risen by in that time - average it out over a 7 year median to keep lou happy.

fuckin hard road, but the but it's worth the ride at the end.

[ManDownUnder]

Righto you lot...

Here's the tool I use. It's not the simplest first time up... but do it once or twice and yo'll get the idea.

The point it proves is that you not only can... but SHOULD pay your mortgage off more quickly then the banks want you to. Save the attachment, change the suffix to xls, open it in Excel and follow the instructions.

Basically you punch in your mortgage numbers, and then get it to measure the effect of you paying an extra $10/week, or $20/week... whatever. And it'll show you what the effect is. Saving 5 years off your mortgage (dwon from 30 to 25 years) is a very easy thing to do, and the interest burden you avoid is HUGE.

Keep playing with the numbers and you might find you can cut your term in half... it doesn't mean paying 2 x as much though...! As an example
$300,000 mortgage (starter house in Auckland as Dover is referencing I believe...!)

$300,000 at 8% over 25 years = $532.44/week
Total Interest Paid = $394,077.32... (can you spell OUCH!)

Throw in an extra $20/week... let's call it "Latte and Lunch Money" - or maybe what... 5 beers?

$300,000 is now paid off in 22 years, 5 months at $552.44/week
Total Interest Paid = $345,295.54

Interest saved = $48,781.78.

Remind me why you don't want to pay it off more quickly??


Edit - if there is anyone out there able to help me pretty this up with a better UI... PM me. It's not the most intuitive I'm afraid... but then I'm a numbers guy.
Edit Edit... do me a favour and just keep this to yourselves at the mo - I want to make it more generally available but need to tidy it up first. My goal is to shit on the banks... return the favour they've been doing us for years...

[The Stranger]

I'm on a good salary, have 15% deposit saved and I am not going to buy in the near future. I've calculated that I will be better off paying rent and saving a larger deposit. I can't afford to buy where I want to live and still have a life.

Sure I'm paying the mortgage for some one else, but hello - most of your mortgage payments (especially in the first 5-10years) are interest which goes to lining the banks pockets, not yours.

I also have trouble believing that property prices are going to rise too much more in the next 3-5 years. What with the economic climate and the interest rates, I'm going to wait a couple of years and see if there are any good bargains. It was a good property boom cycle, but I beleive I missed it. Economic cycles are a reality.

BTW - Have you seen how many rental properties are available? Every man and his dog jumped on the rental property bandwagon. People are going to start having trouble attracting tenants and paying the mortgage on these properties.....


What you say makes a lot of sense, and particularly if you are actually saving, not just pissing it against the wall.

I believe as you say, that I don't see a lot of upside in the next 3-5 yrs. But I don't see a lot of down either.

The only gain in buying now is that you don't "miss the market" a lot of people wait until the time is "right" and never do it cause the time is never right or they never see it is right until they have the benefit of hindsight.

Re the number of rental properties, yeah, it would appear a lot are available right now. That said, property ownership rates have fallen hugely over the past couple of decades to the point now where one third of the population rent. So you need to put this in context. 20 yrs ago (if my memory serves me correctly) this was about 10% .

[Squeak the Rat]

It all comes down to whether you believe there will be capital gains in the next few years, and if so how much. And how much you can save if you rent.


a) 10% capital gain on a $400k mortgage at 8% interest?

b) Put your deposit savings in an on-call 7% savings account?

c) 4% capital gain on a $400k mortgage at 8% interest?


A is probably the most attractive. But I bet we wont see this sort of capital gains in the next few years.

So why should I pay the bank $700 per week of which most is interest, versus paying $300 in rent, saving $400 and earning 7%?

[Edit:] faaark a lot of people posted while i was typing!

[Dooly]

We have our dream property, 5 mins from town, 10 acre lifestyle block. Its private and has nearly tripled in value from when we brought it.
I dont give a shit about that, we love it, privacy, can ride the dirt bikes around without trailering them somewhere, have lots of shed space, good pool, and if need be, can zip into town within 10 mins for anything.
Cant beat country living.:yes:

[Motu]

My elder daughter and fella came down to Huntly at the same time as us - they bought 2 adjoining sections for $15,000 each,paid them off in a year,then built a house on one of them.Now they have a mortgage worth a pitance for a young couple starting out,the property was worth 50% more than build value the day it was finished.The other section is now valued at $50,000,pretty soon they'll be able to build on that one.They wouldn't of had a shit show of owning their own home in Auckland.

The 4 laning between Mercer and Longswamp is finished - a Foodtown is now being built in Huntly,I don't think this place is going back to the dark days of the '80's.

[Crazy Steve]

$300,000 at 8% over 25 years = $532.44/week
Total Interest Paid = $394,077.32... (can you spell OUCH!)

Throw in an extra $20/week... let's call it "Latte and Lunch Money" - or maybe what... 5 beers?

$300,000 is now paid off in 22 years, 5 months at $552.44/week
Total Interest Paid = $345,295.54 (still OUCH!!!)

Interest saved = $48,781.78.

Remind me why you don't want to pay it off more quickly??

My 1st Morgage was over 10years and it was $147pw.....

Now im waiting on a large deposit for some thing to happen...

It might invole men from Space yet....

Never go bck to Aucks....

Crazy Steve.

[Big Dave]

It all comes down to whether you believe there will be capital gains in the next few years, and if so how much. And how much you can save if you rent.


a) 10% capital gain on a $400k mortgage at 8% interest?

b) Put your deposit savings in an on-call 7% savings account?

c) 4% capital gain on a $400k mortgage at 8% interest?


A is probably the most attractive. But I bet we wont see this sort of capital gains in the next few years.

So why should I pay the bank $700 per week of which most is interest, versus paying $300 in rent, saving $400 and earning 7%?

[Edit:] faaark a lot of people posted while i was typing!

because even if it does break even for a while - you still have a landlord and someone else controlling your destiny.
not having one of those is an intangible that I would go into the red on the short term to avoid.

[ManDownUnder]

It all comes down to whether you believe there will be capital gains in the next few years, and if so how much. And how much you can save if you rent.



So long as the gain exceeds the pain for the life of the investment.

Plan to keep it, and look at it over 10 years or so. It looks better then.

[ManDownUnder]

because even if it does break even for a while - you still have a landlord and someone else controlling your destiny.
not having one of those is an intangible that I would go into the red on the short term to avoid.

Agreed 200%

[Sniper]

Thanks Big Dave

[McJim]

I moved to New Zealand with my Kiwi wife for the 'Quality of life'.

I still haven't found it - I get 5 days less annual leave and I have to work 5 hours a week extra - houses are the same price as UK but salaries are much lower.

Daily consider returning to the UK to find a better quality of life - NZ costs far too much. Wife doesn't want to go coz this is her home.

[Lou Girardin]

Entirely disagree - 2 years worth of rent in AKL can be $30-50 grand - that would be much better in yer own equity regardless of the cycle.
Apart from that living with a landlord just blows arse. Property inspections, having to ask before scratching your nuts, the whole real estate agent deal.

OK, what do I know after 11 years as a land shark. You could save that 30 - 50 grand by buying well and at the right time. Conversely you could lose half your equity when prices fall.

[Squeak the Rat]

So long as the gain exceeds the pain for the life of the investment.

Plan to keep it, and look at it over 10 years or so. It looks better then.

But if I save hard for the next two years I can considerably shorten my mortage time and cost. OR buy something better. (assuming captial gains stay low over the short term).

Big Dave, I get what you're saying about the landlord thing. Especially the chance you could get evicted due to sale etc. But then again you don't have to worry about rate increases, don't give a shit when the hot water cylinder stops working etc which I reckon goes a little way to evening it out.

Seriously though, I just cannot afford a mortgage and continue to have a life. And I choose not to commute for over 1 hour per day. Bring on the mortagee sales! :)

[ManDownUnder]

But if I save hard for the next two years I can considerably shorten my mortage time and cost. OR buy something better. (assuming captial gains stay low over the short term).

Unless prices go up... or interest rates go up...

Don't get me wrong - I applaud your approach. It sounds like you've done your numbers and I think you're as likely to be right as I am. I prefer to act from a position of certainty, rather than hope for a future day being better.



Seriously though, I just cannot afford a mortgage and continue to have a life. And I choose not to commute for over 1 hour per day. Bring on the mortagee sales! :)

Good luck man... you'll make it. Don't be scared to put in rude offer on houses either. $300,000 house with a vendor depserate to sell? Staple a cheque for $22,500 to an offer for $225,000 and hand it to them there and then.

If you're up shit street $22,500 in the hand is a nice thing to have...

["D" FZ1]

We moved out of Auckland 20 years ago and would never go back. You can buy so much more for your hard earned dollar in other parts of the country and not have all that Bullshit congestion to put up with.

[Big Dave]

I moved to New Zealand with my Kiwi wife for the 'Quality of life'.


Go to the top of a high hill - look around at the beauty of this place, look at the sky and take a deep breath.

Then look at the state of the world blowing itself up and remind yourself that being on a beautiful remote island in the middle of a vast ocean where people mainly get on is the hankering of billions.

[Fub@r]

I read an article a few years back which stated the following:

Owning a property and paying a mortgage you would end up with value "A" when you retire

If you were to rent and put the difference between the rent and what a mortgage would cost in to the bank you would end up with value "B"

Values "A" and "B" would end up being pretty similar.

The catch is that those who rent wouldn't put the difference aside and bank it as there is nothing compelling people to do so therefore they have would end up with a lower amount of cash versus the equity someone who earn from owning a home.

As for me I'm looking to buy again by the end of this year as putting up with landlords, agents, rent increases and general insecurity of renting is really starting to rub. Also friends of mine that purchased since I sold my last house 5 years ago have raced up the ladder in terms of asset value/worth. Also if I were to delay getting back in to the market any longer it might get out of my reach especially in Auckland

[Big Dave]

OK, what do I know after 11 years as a land shark. You could save that 30 - 50 grand by buying well and at the right time. Conversely you could lose half your equity when prices fall.

I had 15 years in new home sales and marketing. Started as a draftsman. I also worked property on the gold coast - but I don't tell many people that.

Times are harder and the course plays rougher than when we were playing - but the stories of success are more numerous than the failures.

[Crazy Steve]

Some people are living rent free...

Like this Guy I know...Renting a House in Mt Wellington paying $320pw...

Got behind in his rent by 6mths (true story) Because the propety is own by a local Council, And who ever in the Council that should of been keeping an eye on the rent arrea's WASN'T!!!

Finally they caught up with him...Problem was when he 1st moved in he used a Bullshit name....

So he Dee Camped!!!!!!!

Owing $8500ish.....

Crazy Steve...

[ManDownUnder]

We moved out of Auckland 20 years ago and would never go back. You can buy so much more for your hard earned dollar in other parts of the country and not have all that Bullshit congestion to put up with.

Agreed - but then your hard earned dollar invested in Auckland property is usually working harder for you than anywhere else in the country.

Each to their own... but give me another 10 years and I'll be out of Aucks too... rich and comfy!

[judecatmad]

Ok, another question.

How many of you could actually afford, on a single income, a decent house in a decent area of Auckland in today's market?

We bought just a month ago - could only afford it by going 100% finance and cos we'd moved to Wellington where prices are definitely lower.

No way, even on 2 decent incomes, that we would EVER have been able to afford to buy a 4 bedroom house on a decent section in Takapuna (where we used to live when we lived in Auckland). And god help us when we have kids and go to one income for 12 months.......... :crybaby:

I have no idea how singletons manage to buy houses in Auckland - the prices up there are just silly. It's got to all collapse at some point, surely? If you've bought for investment, then that's when it all turns to custard, but if you've bought to live in a place and keep it as your home, then no worries - just keep on doing what you were doing (and hope your job doesn't move!).

Owning your own place is just the best :D

[McJim]

Go to the top of a high hill - look around at the beauty of this place, look at the sky and take a deep breath.

Then look at the state of the world blowing itself up and remind yourself that being on a beautiful remote island in the middle of a vast ocean where people mainly get on is the hankering of billions.

Yeah but Scotland was like that too - I'm here coz I love my wife and respect her wishes. My parents are getting on too and I miss them. If the house prices were more in line with salaries it wouldn't be so bad - I could afford to visit them. As it is it's killing us. Toying with the idea of selling, putting the equity from sale in high interest savings and renting until the housin bubble bursts and then buying a house for a proper price.

[NinjaBoy]

Is the millstone of a 20+ year mortgage and being tied to one location worth it?


You'll find that the average stay at one house in AKL is 7 years. Then they sell and upgrade or something taking the profit with them.

[Big Dave]

Big Dave, I get what you're saying about the landlord thing. Especially the chance you could get evicted due to sale etc.

Yeah happened to me - after a long period of ownership in oz we rented when we first arrived - and got a notice to quit because he sold the place. that meant 2 moves in a month because we subsequently bought the first place we saw.

When you own it - if you want a 'better' HWC - you just install one.:yes:
If you need to you can borrow against yer equity - raising money is also a lot easier if you have bricks and mortar as security.

[NinjaBoy]

[QUOTE=judecatmad;729748] If you've bought for investment, then that's when it all turns to custard, /QUOTE]


It only turns to custard if you have to sell in lower market. Investing in property is a long term thing and you have to be able to wait out the dips

[ManDownUnder]

You'll find that the average stay at one house in AKL is 7 years. Then they sell and upgrade or something taking the profit with them.

As CaN alluded to... keep the house, borrow against the equity and use that cash to buy another place... and now you own TWO appreciating houses...

One of which now has tenants in it who are kindly contributing to your financial situation. My personal approach is to not rent a property in the bottom 25% (or 50%) of the market as the tenants are the more "fly by night/trash the place" types.

Buy your first house, and make it your home - do it up, make it comfortable... and help it appreciate. You then have a more valuable house, worth more to rent out, it'll be looked after better, earn more, and you'll have more equity to borrow and play with.

[Big Dave]

Toying with the idea of selling, putting the equity from sale in high interest savings and renting until the housin bubble bursts and then buying a house for a proper price.

What if it doesn't burst? What if the stady stream of migrants and off shore investors keeps pumping money in? Not sure that it will - but wotif?

It appears unit prices are the only things not strong in AKL still. And thats about over-supply in the short term.

[Big Dave]

As CaN alluded to... keep the house, borrow against the equity and use that cash to buy another place... and now you own TWO appreciating houses...



And there is no rule that says you have to live in the house you are buying. Rent it out and get someone else to pay it off if if you have a better option for hanging your hat.

[The Stranger]

I read an article a few years back which stated the following:

Owning a property and paying a mortgage you would end up with value "A" when you retire

If you were to rent and put the difference between the rent and what a mortgage would cost in to the bank you would end up with value "B"

Values "A" and "B" would end up being pretty similar.

The catch is that those who rent wouldn't put the difference aside and bank it as there is nothing compelling people to do so therefore they have would end up with a lower amount of cash versus the equity someone who earn from owning a home.


For the last 6yrs I have had the place I am currently doing up rented for a rental which
a) is well lower than the average market rent for this type of property and
b) covers my costs (and that is with 100% finance).

Why is that? It is crazy, why would someone rent a house from me when it would cost them the same to buy it? And in that time they would have had a significant capital gain.

I feel that bears out what you say.

Of course they would not have made a cent in that time. Because to buy a place of equal value would cost them the same amount. However they would have a large percentage of equity in their own house.

[ManDownUnder]

So how many out there own more than one house?
edit - me = 2

Of those, how many regret it?
edit - sporadically... like when all the bills come in, but 98% of the time - no.

How many plan to buy more?
edit - me

[Rashika]

I read an article a few years back which stated the following:

Owning a property and paying a mortgage you would end up with value "A" when you retire

If you were to rent and put the difference between the rent and what a mortgage would cost in to the bank you would end up with value "B"

Values "A" and "B" would end up being pretty similar.

The catch is that those who rent wouldn't put the difference aside and bank it as there is nothing compelling people to do so therefore they have would end up with a lower amount of cash versus the equity someone who earn from owning a home.

Must be an Auckland thing. Mortage plus rates etc = rent for same house here, why would you bother renting when it all goes down the tube straightaway?
Oh yeah guess should say mortgage includes car and bike...much better than a personal loan

[The Stranger]

You'll find that the average stay at one house in AKL is 7 years. Then they sell and upgrade or something taking the profit with them.

In general there is no profit.

Say you buy a 4 bed house for 300k and it appreciates in value by 100k in 5 yrs.

You sell that house and think hey I made 100k.

But to buy another 4 bed house of equal value will cost you 400k so where is the profit?

[The_Dover]

I think I'll just become a pimp.

That's where the real money is.

[tomthepohm]

Best thing i ever did was buying a house, what ever anyone says you just cant loose out on them.

Everyone always goes on about interest rates and the fact that the housing market is about to drop, but in never really does.

You cant lose on a house mate.

Ps, Dover you have to work your way up to being a Pimp, i will pimp you out and get you started if you want, there is a big market for a man with your sexual orientation.

[Big Dave]

In general there is no profit.

Say you buy a 4 bed house for 300k and it appreciates in value by 100k in 5 yrs.
You sell that house and think hey I made 100k.
But to buy another 4 bed house of equal value will cost you 400k so where is the profit?

In what you pay off over time - enforced savings.
At the start you own 5% of fuck all - every month you increase your stake and in 10 years you own 40% of a fair bit.

Which means that you borrow less for a $600k house and do the same thing or divest to other options.

The arse might fall out of everything tomorrow - who knows - historically ownership has been the path to greater security and wealth.

[Indiana_Jones]

Wanna own when I move out from mummy and daddy's place :D

-Indy

[tomthepohm]

No Indy, i hate to be the one to tell you but its not Mummy and Daddys place. It is a special place for special people.

Did you notice everyone walking arount in white coats.

[Big Dave]

Oh yeah guess should say mortgage includes car and bike...much better than a personal loan

If your bike is secured against your house and a separate loan on the same rate it is - if it's in the mortgage amount it costs more than a finance co.
You pay a smaller amount over a longer time.

[Finn]

My lawyer sold all his properties,except one for his daughter - and now rents...also sold his business.He said to me - ''With the economic climate as it is in NZ,who in their right mind would be in business and own a house?'' I doubt he will retire a pauper,so obviously he has another plan....but interesting to see him dump his ''assets'',he's one of the smartests guys I know.

He sounds like a smart man. I'm currently doing the same except I'll keep the property. The things that really annoy me about NZ are business related and SpudChucker. So I'm selling it and thinking what I'll do about Spud.

As for house ownership, I think people get nervous about the mortgage thing. It really just boils down to cash flow and appreciation really. Buy smart and within your means. Don't get emotional and go for that dream home. And don't buy plaster houses!!!

Most of the world’s true wealth has been made from property. Bricks and mortar Son. There ain't gonna be anymore land made.

[The_Dover]

Most of the world’s true wealth has been made from property.

You tell that to BP, Hugh Hefner and Bill Gates.


Bricks and mortar Son. There ain't gonna be anymore land made.

They keep reclaiming it from the sea all the time.

[McJim]

You tell that to BP, Hugh Hefner and Bill Gates.



They keep reclaiming it from the sea all the time.


They've sold all the plots on the moon but I don't think they've started selling Mars real estate yet - better get in there before the developers.

[Big Dave]

I think I'll just become a pimp.

That's where the real money is.


I ride around Ponsonby, K road, and the red light area a fair bit. Looking for locations for photos, observing the wildlife and just riding.

Tain't Miami Vice, sunshine.

[Indiana_Jones]

There ain't gonna be anymore land made.

Lex Luthor says otherwise!


<img src="http://supermanjaviolivares.iespana.es/luthorhackman.jpg" align="centre" vspace="10" hspace="10">

Lois Lane: But millions of people will die!
Lex Luthor: Billions! Once again, the press underestimates me.


MUAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!

-Indy

[Finn]

You tell that to BP, Hugh Hefner and Bill Gates.



They keep reclaiming it from the sea all the time.

Interestingly enough Son, BP owns a shit load of property world wide. It's starts with the petrol stations and keeps going. Hugh's business almost collapsed but he also has a huge porperty portfolio. Bill Gates is a freak.

On that note, what business do you think McDonalds is in? If your answer is hamburgers then you are incorrect. They are a property company.

They're not reclaiming sea in NZ thanks to the RMA and maoris. Not that this is a problem though. We hardly use much land in NZ.

[marty]

some interesting reading here. apparantley hamvegas has the best rent/value return!

http://www.dbh.govt.nz/UserFiles/File/Publications/Sector/pdf/trends-jan-mar06.pdf#search=%22house%20price%20rise%20compari sons%20new%20zealand%202005-2006%22


we're in our own place in cambridge with a smallish mortgage - should be sorted by 2010.

[The_Dover]

Interestingly enough Son, BP owns a shit load of property world wide. It's starts with the petrol stations and keeps going. Hugh's business almost collapsed but he also has a huge porperty portfolio. Bill Gates is a freak.

On that note, what business do you think McDonalds is in? If your answer is hamburgers then you are incorrect. They are a property company.

They're not reclaiming sea in NZ thanks to the RMA and maoris. Not that this is a problem though.

Property is hardly BP's core business is it? And most of the Viaduct and Auckland waterfront it built on reclaimed land.


We hardly use much land in NZ.

So why is it so fucking overpriced?

[_Gina_]

So how many out there own more than one house?
edit - me = 2
We do too.
Of those, how many regret it?
edit - sporadically... like when all the bills come in, but 98% of the time - no.
Ditto

How many plan to buy more?
edit - me
Hmmm, theory says it's a good idea, so I won't discount it, however our master plan is to subdivide the first property when the council finally put a sewerage line in and then sell the new property and continue renting the old. Then the second property long term (10 years) we believe will be subdividable if the growth of the town carries on the way it is going.


Gg

[Indiana_Jones]

I ride around Ponsonby, K road, and the red light area a fair bit. Looking for locations for photos, observing the wildlife and just riding.

Tain't Miami Vice, sunshine.


It is now!


<img src="http://readwriteweb.googlepages.com/sonny.jpg" align="centre" vspace="10" hspace="10">

w00t!

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

They better stop reclaiming land, I'll be out of a job lol

-Indy

[The_Dover]

so how many of you bought your own homes, off your own back (no assistance at all) with a mortgage value of greater than 5 times your annual income?

[ManDownUnder]

so how many of you bought your own homes, off your own back (no assistance at all) with a mortgage value of greater than 5 times your annual income?

me, but there were two of us saving/pitching in for the deposit.

House was 196k, income on the day was 35k, combined income was 55k.

Set up a company, sell some shares in it, have the company buy a house.

[Big Dave]

So why is it so fucking overpriced?

The market sets the prices. Demand.

[The Stranger]

So why is it so fucking overpriced?


My brother is in the process of chopping a residential section in half at the moment.

He recons it will cost about 50 to 55k to complete this. He says 33 - 35k goes to the council. Who is going to pay for that? The purchaser of course.

But hey rubber stamps are expensive and that does help them keep rate increases so small, so I guess it is a positive thing.

[judecatmad]

so how many of you bought your own homes, off your own back (no assistance at all) with a mortgage value of greater than 5 times your annual income?

When you say 'no assistance at all'....that doesn't include the kind bank assisting you with providing the money with which to purchase said house, does it?! :D

Nah, we could only get 3x our joint income as a max. Any more would have been financial suicide - only takes one of you to lose their job and you're out on the street (either homeless or making some extra money! :o )

[Hitcher]

What a great idea. Let's subsidise people to live in Auckland and continue to compound the problems that exist there: high property prices, ratshit infrastructure, Dick Hubbard.

Or we could treat Auckland exactly the same as any other part of New Zealand and let businesses and people decide where they would like to live and work but on a level playing field without artificial distortions.

[The_Dover]

What a great idea. Let's subsidise people to live in Auckland and continue to compound the problems that exist there: high property prices, ratshit infrastructure, Dick Hubbard.

Or we could treat Auckland exactly the same as any other part of New Zealand and let businesses and people decide where they would like to live and work but on a level playing field without artificial distortions.

Did you forget your meds again Hitler?

What ARE you talking about?

[Big Dave]

so how many of you bought your own homes, off your own back (no assistance at all) with a mortgage value of greater than 5 times your annual income?

nope. parents helped. and it was only double.

Like I said times have changed - I never would have thought about a consortium of my mates to get a place - nowdays I would - properly drafted agreements etc - get a few lads together and buy something would be an option now.

I know of one brother and sister with a beautiful big homestead that they each have a wing of what they couldn't have afforded individually.

I suspect when you are my age there will be young blokes saying - did any of you....10 times greater than...

time for that best seller.

[The_Dover]

time for that best seller.

i'm working on it!

[The Stranger]

so how many of you bought your own homes, off your own back (no assistance at all) with a mortgage value of greater than 5 times your annual income?

Nah, the sharemarket was excellent pre 87, those were the days.

I recall Muldoon running around like Henny Penny telling everyone the share market was going to crash, it's going to crash. That was 81. Had to laugh when it finally did and he goes I told you so. What impeccable timing.

However since then I never listen to the nay sayers or experts (oh you listen, but don't trust them). Do your own research and make your own decisions. Trust your own judgement when it comes to money.

[sels1]

Daily consider returning to the UK to find a better quality of life - NZ costs far too much. Wife doesn't want to go coz this is her home.

Try looking at options outside of Auckland where prices are lower (Dunedin may appeal to your Scottish background:msn-wink: ) Its like living in London compared to other parts of the UK.

And I've just bought again after a couple of years renting. We sold the 4bd house we had owned for years (kids left) and rented for a while , figuring out what to buy next and waiting for the market slump. It didnt really, altho it did slow a bit. Fortunatly we had a rental as well that was still apreciating and we cashed that up to buy the new place.
My opinion - buy a house any way you can. Just dont over commit and do some market research first. If you have to downgrade your car/bike/stereo whatever to do so, its normally worth it in the long run.

[RantyDave]

[property in NZ] So why is it so fucking overpriced?
Location, location, location.

You can have a quarter acre in the arse end of beyond for a dollar fifty, it's the fact that it's in Remuera that proves to be the problem. It has had value added by virtue of being close to things.

True story: My better half used to teach skiing in Vail, an astonishingly posh ski resort in Colorado. This place was used as a training ground for troops in the second world war and, after the war, a guy called Peter Siebert returned ... said "let's build a ski resort here" ... raised a million bucks and, along with some investors, now basically owns a town. "The Town of Vail incorporated". A section outside Vail will now cost you four million US.

http://www.vailrealestate.com/propertydetail.cfm?PropertyID=18292

Now *that* is property investing for men.

So. Stop bitching and go turn a couple of hundred acres round the volcanic plateau into the world centre for debauchery or something.

Dave

[Beemer]

I own my own, a place in the country and wouldn't give it up for anything.
I'd rather be lining my own pocket than someone elses'. Its all about where you buy though, and I for one would rather cut my balls off than live in AK.

Same here, but you'll have to insert the female equivalent for the last line!

We bought three acres in the country north of Levin in 2003 and love it. Peace and quiet in bucketloads, good neighbours (well, they will all be good in four weeks time when the psycho Brethren next door move out!) and a feeling of security that renting doesn't provide. It's nice knowing we can't get booted out because the landlord suddenly decides to sell, and you feel better about spending money on the house and garden when you are the ones who will get the longterm benefits of it.

I wouldn't want to buy a place to rent out though, heard too many horror stories about bad tenants to be that mad!

[Lou Girardin]

Having seen both sides of property investment, I won't touch it, despite have the spare income, a deposit and plenty of equity.
But if it works for some - great.

[Finn]

Property is hardly BP's core business is it? And most of the Viaduct and Auckland waterfront it built on reclaimed land.

You're right. Pie's are their core business.

Well it was easy to reclaim land back in 1900. The RMA wasn't around. I can't think of and land that has been reclaimed since then for residential development.

[The_Dover]

I can't think of any land that has been reclaimed since then for residential development.

except for by the fuckin maoris :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Finn]

except for by the fuckin maoris :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

You racist prick!

I like your new signature cunt.

[Garry.W]

Same here

And a lovely spot it is too!! I feel the need to contribute to this.

First off, I own my own home, for the most part anyway (wife and bank are partners I think). I've bought and sold four times since I originally built my first home in Palmerston North in 1992. Some of us remember the days of plus 26% interest rates - I sure do. I'm not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination but could not have got where I am today without owning that first home, even though it was a period of scrimping and saving all the time, many meals of baked beans on toast. However, to those who think paying rent is a waste of money, get over it. Rent is not a waste of money, it's payment for a commodity (your accommodation) in just the same way as you spend money on food and clothes and motorcylces (hopefully). People often refer to rent as dead money in comparison with paying off a mortgage, but only becuase they don't appreciate the fact that home ownership usually makes one wealthier or they are not yet in a financial position to do anything about it. Today we do not have the same socio-economic climate as our parents or grandparents. The labour market is much more mobile, jobs for life are not considered the norm nowadays and there are times where households have to move a number of times, often between regions, just to stay in employment. Renting is often a better economic decision in these circumstance because everyone knows wealth being built though equity only occurs over a long period of time, i.e. the more often you buy and sell the property you live in over a short term - the poorer you are going to get. More and more people are choosing to rent as the cost of buying or building a home, the maintenance and rates bills and all those other expenses associated with home ownership are things that people don't have to worry about it. Having said that, there are a lot of 20-30s who would probably like to buy a home but have so much debt, though a variety of student loans and the ridicullously easy to get HP and Credit faciltiies these days, that banks just will not lend to them. I know a few who whinge about how hard it is these days to raise a deposit on a mortgage but have the nice 40" Plasma and the new Beema park in their rental garage and who hop off to Australia for a few weeks every now and then. So they'll stay renting or living with Mum and Dad for the moment. The probelm here in New Zealand is that the private rental sector is not exactly geared up with long-term tenure options, like they have in Europe and the US, to make renting a desitrable opiton -you have the hassle of short term tenancies, often one after the other. The average lenght of tenure for a household in the rental sector is around 3 years. At the end of the day, what I'm trying to say is that for some people renting is a good option, but many studies have shown that the benefits of home ownership are considerable and often more than just that of wealth creation. Granted, people who own their home do tend to do better financially over their lifetime compared with those who rent, but they also tend to participate more in society. Home is a "place to stand" and I'm convinced that owning your own helps with your everyday wellbeing, that's why I own my own home.

And to anyone waiting for houses to get "cheaper" - at your peril I say, as one financial guru says, "doesn't matter where the market is, sooner you get into it the better, and if you're not in it, get planning". :done:

[The Stranger]

I know a few who whinge about how hard it is these days to raise a deposit on a mortgage


Some may not be aware (or care) that some banks will do 101% loans. The extra 1% being to cover legal and costs.

So saving for a deposit may not be that hard.
You do have a higher rate on the portion over 95% and you have to cover the cost of insuring the loan (which is often the case with loans over 80% anyway) and you still have to meet the didposable income tests etc, but, particularly if you have 2 incomes, it is still an option.

[Motu]

Yeah,I remember the 26% interest years,that was when we got our first home! Helen Clark was Minister of Housing,and some incentives were put in place to get people into their own home.I had tried a couple of times for a Housing Corp mortgage,but always got turned down.So in those days ('87,'88?) you needed $3000 deposit,the Goverment put in a 2nd mortgage which had to be paid back in 3 yrs I think....Housing Corp was the 1st mortgage.We borrowed the deposit off my mother,and then paid her back the first year...this satisfied her of our dedication,and she gifted us a driveway.We got the loan as owner/builder,so got progess payments - but we didn't even own the section! We paid for the section with the first progress payment,and put the poles in.Living on the edge is the Motu way....,so always one payment behind,buying materials when we hadn't been paid for it.No one paid the start up money back,so they were incorpatated into the one mortgage.Tough times - the only beer I drank was when someone left their glass unattended.But I still owned 10 bikes,some things I just don't give up.

Back in Auckland inbetween another house sale,we were living in 3 caravans in a static housing market,plenty of time to study our options...we were looking at small acreges within 100km of the city.But then my mother got terminal cancer and I put my life on hold to see her through her last days - I came out of it to see my business had suffered terminaly too,and the housing market had gone wild...I was in deep poo,but don't regret a minute spent with my mother.My sizable deposit was now a pitance,I couldn't even get a loan with it.But it could buy me a complete 3 bdm house in Huntly.I feel I painted myself into a corner getting to Huntly....but don't regret it one bit - I wanted to get just exactly this far out of Auckland,I am where I need to be at this point in my life.Pity about the details,but life would be boring without the messy bits....

[ManDownUnder]

===bloody quote thingy ain't working...
STR said... and yes i am jealous of my mates who have 2 years to pay on their mortgage. Grass is always greener, different strokes etc etc
===

Mate - I had mine carved out in 8 years.. paid off... gone burger save the last 30k which was destined to be squared away in the next 12 months...
I was lucky - I got an education (on your list :niceone:) and a good paying job.

I used those to my advantage, did some more learning on how money works and went after what I wanted. I still am. I love my net worth now - and this is only 10 years out of the blocks.

1/2 my net worth came from equity gains in housing. I'm looking forward to more - in about 5 to 8 year's time. I'll have hit 7 figures by then.

Those that know me will know the balanced life I lead. I don't go hard on the town, or own the newest bike/phone/car/whatever, but I'm not skint either and enjoy some fun along the way.

Money's just a measure - that's all it is. How clever were you when it came to using the system to your advantage? That's it - pure and simple - like me... except for the pure bit)

MDU raving away into the sunset...

[The_Dover]

MDU raving away into the sunset...

are you pissed again nige?

[ManDownUnder]

are you pissed again nige?

I wish - can't afford it mate

[Squeak the Rat]

Nah i accidentally deleted my post that he was replying to. Made complete sense to me!

[Qkchk]

Ahh, the good old slumlord!

The thing is you have to be able to crack the market in the first place to do this.

Stop blowing ya $$$'s on hookers and drugs then.............

[Indoo]

=== my net worth came from equity gains in housing. I'm looking forward to more - in about 5 to 8 year's time. I'll have hit 7 figures by then.

Those that know me will know the balanced life I lead. I don't go hard on the town, or own the newest bike/phone/car/whatever, but I'm not skint either and enjoy some fun along the way.

Money's just a measure - that's all it is. How clever were you when it came to using the system to your advantage? That's it - pure and simple - like me... except for the pure bit)


Thats because you smartly invested in property some 10 odd years ago, unless your particulary astute the returns just aren't comparable today.

We have a nice property on the shore which we own as well as another we are about to buy up North. Looking at the returns we will get from renting the house coupled with the increase in value, compared to selling it and investing it in other areas its far more profitable for us to sell.

[ManDownUnder]

Thats because you smartly invested in property some 10 odd years ago, unless your particulary astute the returns just aren't comparable today.


I disagree - in hindsight we actually bought that house at the worst time - give or take a few months. Peak of the housing market, interest rates were already up but the closeouts and urgent sales hadn't yet started.

It is proof of a purchase in a good location, a good house, and a long term strategy working though.



We have a nice property on the shore which we own as well as another we are about to buy up North. Looking at the returns we will get from renting the house coupled with the increase in value, compared to selling it and investing it in other areas its far more profitable for us to sell.

No worries - I don't know enough about the particular circumstances surrounding it so I have to trust your call on that one. I hope you set up an LAQC and had it buy the house so you're maximising your tax position though (as part of the comparison)

[Indoo]

No worries - I don't know enough about the particular circumstances surrounding it so I have to trust your call on that one. I hope you set up an LAQC and had it buy the house so you're maximising your tax position though (as part of the comparison)

Yep, wifes father is an accountant fortunately for me. We brought in a quite established area, which undoubtedly limits the returns we can expect.

[Qkkid]

So how many out there own more than one house?
edit - me = 2

Of those, how many regret it?
edit - sporadically... like when all the bills come in, but 98% of the time - no.

How many plan to buy more?
edit - me

I own 4 houses been doing it for 17 years and loving it ,"Can" is on the right track however i have a different formula let say the rent is $350 per week i throw in a extra $100 on top of the rent every week on each place and pay them off over 7-10 years. On top of that i pay any exspenses like rates ,insurance, repairs, also out of my wages too I have no regrets it set me up for a lifetime practicarly debt free now,But its no walk in the park alot of hard work and a 20yr plan. People think its easy peasy but i will kid you not its just not that simple , and yes you do make sacrifices for the first 10 years because thats when the hard yards are done.

[Nicksta]

is there an option for none of the above?
My sister lives and works in London.. owns 2 rental properties here in NZ.... she seems to be doing good out of it.. has just decided to sell one and use it to pay for an apartment for herself back here... nice to have the equity i say.....
personally.... i want to buy one for myself so i dont have to rent when i get home.... i cant fathom the idea of giving money to someone else (renting)... when it could be going back to me (paying a mortgage) so at the end of the day i have an asset.... that i can sell, rather than nothing at all (renting) my 0.02c

[Motu]

Kinda like my cousin - after a life getting nowhere following the sport he loved,like me with bikes,although it was him that got me into bikes.He would shut down his small one man business to race around the world for half a year - being an ametur sportsman in New Zealand was not the ladder to financial success.

But he turned it around a few years ago - he and his wife are both now international skippers,working and living aboard luxury cruise yachts,paid off shore.They may come back on a flying visit and go on a shopping spree picking up half a dozen houses.They spent a few month in Oz this year between contracts renting a flash house and driving around in a camper.He's definatly got no financial smarts,all he knows is how to sail,and make a sail,but he's done a rare thing and made it work for him.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Being a real estate consultant i see first home buyers all the time they come into the office with there 300,00 There wont list 3/4 bedrooms double garage in manly say. I just sold a house in manly 295,00 sorry it was not any of they above but 50,000 spent on it the value of that house would of increased by at least 80,000 to 100,00 if they do a proper job. But my point is that a lot of of first home buyer dont want to start at the bottom and work there way up the first thing they say is it needs a lot of work.(this is what i would like to say) dont be so fucking lazy get of your ass and do the hard graff so that in a years time or two you can move on but no they still want there 3/4 bedroom double garage house.I do feel sorry for them because it is very hard to get your first home but they also need to be more relalistic with there exspectation. the people that bought that house got a bloody good bye and they will only make of the property and would of been a good one for first home buyer it sold to a couple that where buying as an investment quick clean up and tenanted.

[_Gina_]

Being a real estate consultant i see first home buyers all the time they come into the office with there 300,00 There wont list 3/4 bedrooms double garage in manly say.....

Or they can be more realistic with the area that they want to buy their first home in immaculate condition with double garage for the $300,000.00 that they have available to spend... I mean for gods sake do people not understand that you need to cut the garment to suit the cloth?

Or settle for the shittiest house on the best street/area.

Gg

[The_Dover]

and that's why a lot of people are happy to continue renting.

Pay for a shit house in a decent area and not be able to afford the mortage and to do it up

or

get a decent property in a shitty area and live in fear of the coons next door stealing your shit and struggle to sell up when you do decide to move.

Throw all the fuckin asian slumlords out of the country and seize their assets for auction I say.

[ManDownUnder]

Or they can be more realistic with the area that they want to buy their first home in immaculate condition with double garage for the $300,000.00 that they have available to spend... I mean for gods sake do people not understand that you need to cut the garment to suit the cloth?

Or settle for the shittiest house on the best street/area.

Gg

My 2c on that one... no... people don't.

There are too many out there expecting:
1) To start at the top of the ladder. "I have my qualification - the world owes me a living"
2) To have life easy - just like they did when they lived with Mum and Dad. I was lucky, living in a time of plenty and we had to do some stuff for ourselves, but I never knew hunger or poverty... even once...

Sometimes a reality check is needed, and there's nothing like the real world to hand it to you.

[ManDownUnder]

and that's why a lot of people are happy to continue renting.

Pay for a shit house in a decent area and not be able to afford the mortage and to do it up

or

get a decent property in a shitty area and live in fear of the coons next door stealing your shit and struggle to sell up when you do decide to move.


or get a map, plot out:
Where the expensive areas are, and which way they are growing
Find where the industrial and commercial areas are, and which way they are growing
Where the motorways and other infrastructure is, and where they are growing, avoid them.

Combine the result of your newfound knowledge and buy something likely to go up in value not in the middle of an indutrial estate, and handy (but not on) a motorway.

It takes about 2 days, with a big map and a couple of highlighters. Surely that's worth a couple of grand?

[Motu]

Or settle for the shittiest house on the best street/area.


Yep,that's what I did a couple of years ago.Huntly West is not on anyones wish list,so prices were lower than anywhere in the Nth Island - I bought an abandoned ex rental with a blown hot water cyl,grounds over grown a metre high.It's in the better part of Huntly West,and of all the places I looked at it had the most potential,even if it didn't look it.It was a shit load of very hard work,it took 6 mths of weekends and some night work,sleeping on camp stretchers in a gutted house.My neighbours are really impressed with what we did turning around the worst house in the street.

[Swoop]

Stop blowing ya $$$'s on hookers and drugs then.............

Hmmm, when I read the title of the thread and who had started it, I immediately thought of hookers...
Dunno why...

[_Gina_]

Yep,that's what I did a couple of years ago.Huntly West is not on anyones wish list,so prices were lower than anywhere in the Nth Island
Two years ago we seriously looked at a property out on Ginn Rd, Rotowaro. $200,000.00 for a farm homestead and an acre and a half. With self contained sleepout. Hmm, just couldn't really see me driving to Mt Welly and back every day. Nearly convinced myself I could though.

Ended up on 2 acres out in Waiuku for $360,000.00.

[Motu]

Two years ago we seriously looked at a property out on Ginn Rd, Rotowaro. $200,000.00 for a farm homestead and an acre and a half. .

In 2003 we had an option on of $210,000 on 5 acres in Matakana,with a nice 4 brm and new kitchen,sleepout and big barn,but missed it when a previous offer finally got finance.Then we were keen on another in Port Albert,5 acres with a nice old home,and a huge 3,000sqft building for $158,000...but then my troubles began and we had to put aside house buying plans.You can see why I wasn't too happy to come back into the market a couple of years later and see such ideas so far out of my reach.

[_Gina_]

In 2003 we had an option on of $210,000 on 5 acres in Matakana,with a nice 4 brm and new kitchen,sleepout and big barn,but missed it when a previous offer finally got finance.Then we were keen on another in Port Albert,5 acres with a nice old home,and a huge 3,000sqft building for $158,000...but then my troubles began and we had to put aside house buying plans.You can see why I wasn't too happy to come back into the market a couple of years later and see such ideas so far out of my reach.
Absolutely, the $360,000.00 was a bit of an ask for us. Other properties around which didn't require the level of refurbishment that ours does, go for around $450,000.00 - $500,000.00 and that was way the hell out of means.
It certainly makes you acutely aware of how hard it might be for people who cashed out of the housing market when the first boom happened 12 odd years ago. Should they be trying to get back in now that is.

[Lou Girardin]

My 2c on that one... no... people don't.

There are too many out there expecting:
1) To start at the top of the ladder. "I have my qualification - the world owes me a living"
2) To have life easy - just like they did when they lived with Mum and Dad.

Too true. When we bought our first home, all of one wage went on the mortgage, our furniture was second hand and the TV was B&W. No dining out or big boozy weekends.
But, everyone did this back then, and 12% inflation soon eased the burden if you watched your spending.

[The_Dover]

So how many of you homo-ners actually purchased your house on one income?

[sAsLEX]

So how many of you homo-ners actually purchased your house on one income?

I did and I am student but had to get a family loan as the bank wouldn't lend me near enough!!

Living with flatmates and a few dollars from my employer help out with the mortgage, but having family to fall back on is helpful but not required.

[Rashika]

So how many of you homo-ners actually purchased your house on one income?

me...still do

[The_Dover]

me...still do

C'mon Rashika, a cow shed in christchurch with an outside dunny and a leaky roof doesn't count.

And the income must be legal and moral.

[Motu]

And did you do it on a single income with wife and children? I think we must be the last single income family in New Zealand - the system is certainly not set up for the single income family.

[Squeak the Rat]

the system is certainly not set up for the single income family.
I wonder if that affects the way our kids turn out???

Of those who have purchased recently on single income how many have flatmates?

[Rashika]

C'mon Rashika, a cow shed in christchurch with an outside dunny and a leaky roof doesn't count.

And the income must be legal and moral.

its got 3 bedrooms, living, lounge, kitchen, bathroom, INSIDE toilet, garage, and land... not to mention, car, bikes, dog, cats, a PC AND a MAC.

And the means are mostly moral....close enough anyway

[Rashika]

Of those who have purchased recently on single income how many have flatmates?

tried that recently....stoopid twat still owes me money

[Lou Girardin]

So how many of you homo-ners actually purchased your house on one income?

I've bought two.

[Big Dave]

When we bought our first one - that was all that was counted - they wouldn't take the wife's salary into account because she was automatically going to have babies.
it changed in the 80's. like lots of things - why I still live there.

[ManDownUnder]

So how many of you homo-ners actually purchased your house on one income?

Purchased - no.

Paid off - yes. And now we're (I'm) paying off the 2nd one. I owe more than I own, my debt is 5 x income and I have tenants we needs to carefully manage to make sure things don;t turn to kak too fast.

We have contingencies in place (like a revolving credit line available for use if/when things go bad as they do from time to time.... and a fall back plan in case it really goes completely tits up.

Risky - yes... too risky... no.

[cheese]

I was lucky I got a lump sum pay out from the Navy and got a house just before the massive price boom. To buy now is almost not possible for most people in Auckland. What is point of saving 30k + to have a $2000+ a month repayment for your own piece on NZ?

[ManDownUnder]

I was lucky I got a lump sum pay out from the Navy and got a house just before the massive price boom. To buy now is almost not possible for most people in Auckland. What is point of saving 30k + to have a $2000+ a month repayment for your own piece on NZ?

I agree. But then you don;t start at the top... or in property - you don't start by dropping 7 figures on the house of your dreams. Buy further out, buy smaller, buy something with potential, worst house, best street.. etc etc etc. Just start... that's the thing. Start.

Too many sit and whinge can't do this, can't do that. And they're right.

Check the responses to the poll... how many regret buying a house? 1 in 68 (at the time of posting...). Housing does go up. It might take time, it might ebb and flow... but unless NZ adopts a one child policy, closes our borders to immigration etc... houses will go up.

[judecatmad]

So how many of you homo-ners actually purchased your house on one income?

I bought my first house in the UK on one income - does that count?

A lot easier over there to get a mortgage - although house prices are now just as out of reach as in Auckland, from what my friends and family tell me.

Govt should definitely give tax breaks to first home buyers - and the home buyer incentive scheme that they've got at the moment is about as much use as tits on a bull. Maximum you can borrow is not even enough to buy you a garden shed in most areas!!! And there really shouldn't be a salary cap on your eligibility for the scheme - a first time buyer is a first time buyer, full stop. The only criteria should be that you live in the house that you buy through the scheme.

Don't get me started on middle income New Zealanders having to pay full whack for everything and getting no assistance in any way, shape or form....... :mad:

[_Gina_]

Don't get me started on middle income New Zealanders having to pay full whack for everything and getting no assistance in any way, shape or form....... :mad:
Oh come on!! You know you want to.....

says a fellow middle income earner...

[RantyDave]

or get a map, plot out:
Where the expensive areas are, and which way they are growing
This would have worked a treat, had you tried it in Wellington two or three years ago. The "filmies" fuelled property bubble merged into Seatoun and started to spread like wildfire into Strathmore (over the hill), along Breaker Bay and into Island Bay with avengence.

Same thing happened in London when I left in the 90's - Clapham became trendy and people doubled/trebled their money. Ditto Battersea. I swear, it's on the edge between expensive neighbourhoods and cheap ones where the big gains are made and in NZ we appear to be lucky enough that they spread reasonably geographically.

Dave

[Kornholio]

Screw you Dover, you don't deserve to live in a tent :p

[Shadows]

Buy if you can, gives you plenty of leverage to buy toys with!

[Deano]

Ok, another question.

How many of you could actually afford, on a single income, a decent house in a decent area of Auckland in today's market?

I wouldn't want to even if I could. But I'm impatient and hate commuting in traffic. (I don't ride to work)


Apart from that living with a landlord just blows arse. Property inspections, having to ask before scratching your nuts, the whole real estate agent deal.

And, trying to find a dog friendly flat.

I'm lucky in that my wife had a big deposit already saved. I was recently out of Polytech so was used to living meagerly, and didn't go silly when I started earning 'decent' money. By decent I mean better than average.

A revolving credit mortgage has worked well for us, but we have delayed having kids in order to cull off a lot of it. We also bought 3 and 1/2 years ago before the prices went mad.

[judecatmad]

Oh come on!! You know you want to.....

says a fellow middle income earner...

LOL, yeah, you're right, I do.....but I don't think I know how to spell most of the words I need in order to get it all out of my system! And it's not through lack of trawling the dictionary either! :rofl:

[Big Dave]

Ok, another question.

How many of you could actually afford, on a single income, a decent house in a decent area of Auckland in today's market?

And she's worked fuckin' hard to get it.

[The_Dover]

And she's worked fuckin' hard to get it.

eh? which post were you referring to Dave?

[JimO]

i bought my first house aged 20 for $20000 sold 10 years later for $126000 bought current house for $118000 gv now $298000 have had a couple of renters and sold one making $40000 profit in 2 1/2 years other has doubled in value in last two years. renting will never give you any return as when you pay it its gone but with a mortgage you still have the house. my 2 cents for what its worth

[Big Dave]

eh? which post were you referring to Dave?

The one about one income to buy a house - yes, hers, she's studied and worked hard for it.
I dick around with motorcycles and sponge.
They don't give these gigs to schmucks you know.

[ManDownUnder]

This would have worked a treat, had you tried it in Wellington two or three years ago. The "filmies" fuelled property bubble merged into Seatoun and started to spread like wildfire into Strathmore (over the hill), along Breaker Bay and into Island Bay with avengence.

Same thing happened in London when I left in the 90's - Clapham became trendy and people doubled/trebled their money. Ditto Battersea. I swear, it's on the edge between expensive neighbourhoods and cheap ones where the big gains are made and in NZ we appear to be lucky enough that they spread reasonably geographically.

Dave

Mate it worked then and it works now...

[The_Dover]

Screw you Dover, you don't deserve to live in a tent :p

Damn right I don't.

But alas, I don't get paid enough to live in a real house, with walls and shit.

I'm hoping to get a nice Skyline garden shed next year though. I'm saving real hard and I've got nearly $18.75. Only problem is that those 5c coins aren't much good anymore so I'm back down to about $9.