Peanuts and Monkeys

[kro]

Long has the saying been told "throw out the peanuts, and monkeys come running", I am speaking specifically in the context of salaries and wages.

Over the years I have observed people coming and going from employment, and as most have, I started low, and worked my way up steadily. When I was working in logistics style jobs, I used to get frustrated at my employers for not seeing the merit in paying people a couple of dollars extra an hour, in order to keep them happier in their jobs, and more likely to stay in them.
The biggest detrimental effect on a business (imho), is staff turn-over. You employ a person, you take man hours from other workers days to train them, thus making the "trainers" wokload increase, you buy them safety gear, or set up a new workstation for them, only to have them move on in 6 mths to a year, because a better paying job became available elsewhere. You lose time, you lose moeny, and you lose stability when this happens.

One of the other major frustrations I have endured over the years, is managements attitude to the "warehouse crew", the guys at the "bottom" of the food chain, doing the "unskilled" work. Hang on a sec, if you run a highly professional logistics operation, and your company prides itself on its appearance, and efficiency, the troops in the warehouse are the last ones to touch/see/inspect your orders before they leave the premises, they play one of the most important roles imo, as they are you last line of defence against fuck ups, and bungled orders, which as we know, really piss the customer off.

I have worked as a warehouse trooper, and seen the masses come and go, and saw the often dramatic effect it had on the running of the business overall, so when i moved into management, I put my money where my mouth was, and pushed and pushed the GM to allow me to pay my small team of troops a decent wage, for all the above reasons. In my 5 years managing this particular distribution centre, we had zero staff turnover, and in fact we hired an extra man toward the last couple of years, because of increased turnover, the company went from a 75m py GP to 100m py GP.

This rant is not supposed to be about me saying I was a good manager, I am trying to convey that maybe our "unskilled" labour isn't so unskilled after all, and employers should rethink who gets the good money, the lazy blue collar, who is frequently late, and has long coffee breaks, or the swandri clad warehouse picker, who comes in 10 mins early every day, and never takes sickies and long weekends.

What are your thoughts?

[Finn]

Where to start...

While I agree in principle with what you're saying, the problem is that money doesn't necessarily translate to hard work or happiness in a job. In my experience, you can give someone a raise and it doesn't change a thing. Heck, we're Kiwi's and we'll spend every last cent anyway. Back to square one - I need more money.

The other problem is that NZ lacks experienced management. This is evident from small company’s right up to large corporates. There are monkeys all over the place, so monkey see, monkey do.

The other big problem is a government that is anti business which is not conducive to enjoyable employee / employer relationships. You screw business and they will fight back, anyway they can. Unlike NZ, companies can't afford to run a social experiment.

There's always a good middle ground - enjoyable work environment / productivity. Finding it is very difficult.

[ManDownUnder]

agreed 200%

My take is that everyone deserves respect until they demonstrate otherwise. That means respect in terms of work requirements, pay, family aspects (i.e. work/life balance) etc.

We have different jobs to do, with different roles and different pay rates - that's fine. But don't look down on anyone because they're doing something you don't want to, or that you used to do. That's demeaning, and if the only way to boost your own ego is to put others down then you have a problem.

There are 2 times I can think of when rank becomes important in an organisation. At review/payrise time... someone with more experience and seniority needs to have that recognised in order to be able to dish out valid criticism or praise. A peer simply can't do that

At the time of a decision or deadlock. Sometimes something that happens on the shop floor doesn't make sense from a strategic point of view so what seems obvious to some is actually counterproductive.

Likewsie sometimes a decision made on the top floor doesn't actually make sense on the shop floor... at which time those in the shop need to be heard because their knowledge is to the benefit of all.

Enough already... I can feel I'm on the verge of quoting things and giving examples - and that'll go for pages

[McJim]

Depth and Breadth - that's what I've always said.

I am flabbergasted at how low the average salary is having recently arrived from a 7 year stint in London.

The most important thing is to value the staff - for some it may be salary others have different needs - the trick is knowing which staff have which needs and fulfilling them to ensure loyalty and continuity of work.

Too many people have a 'formula' that they apply to all their staff to keep 'em. The result? All their staff are similar in outlook - this is a problem coz it removes Depth and Breadth in the work force and to run a business efficiently we need different types of personalities for different roles.

Kro - helping your staff make ends meet was probably a huge thing in their eyes but you are probably addressing their other needs as employees sub consciously which is the hallmark of a good man-manager.

[Sniper]

I dont pay fuel, rego, warrent, insurance, maintence, tyres and I get heavily discounted parts for bikes and cars. I think that saves me a few grand a year.

As much as I love extra money in the bank, I always wonder about those that turn a bling eye to the freebies they get from work and still moan about not being paid enough.

Although if someone is willing to pay me more than what Im on now and utilise my skills, Im yours :devil2:

[Ixion]

Well, obviously I'm going to agree with Mr Kro.

Having said that, there are a lot of no-hopers out there who don't want to give even 80% let alone 100%. And unfortunately, because of the way the welfare system in NZ has been bastardised, they can get away with it.

The saving grace is that there's a sort of Darwinism at work - decent employers attract decent workers, ratbag bosses end up with the rat bags (and just listen to them complain about it ) .

BTW, unhappiness about money more often than not is just a channel for a generalised alienation.Like the police at present . Good bosses don't actually HAVE to pay over the odds (though often will, because they recognise the worth of their workers). Those working for ratbags will always want more money, because they figure if they have to put up with all the shit, then they should get something out of it. And if they're not getting appreciation, security, recognition or job satisfaction, money's all that's left.

[marty]

What are your thoughts?


that your low turnover was more a result of your total management style, rather than solely the increase in wages. being rewarded is a lot different to feeling valuable. i don't think that army/navy/air force soldiers put their lives on the line for the money.....

[kro]

I appreciate your feedback. This all came back to me recently, when my brother landed a job with Golden Edge (Nelson Pine), where he is starting as a packer/strapper, at a rate I was earning in middle management. The staff turnover rate at this plant is 1%, and this is publicised, and well documented.

Money doesn't necessarily equate to happiness for all, but if your team do their job, and do it extremely well, and you pay them enough money that they know damn well they won't land another job like it, that pays anywhere near as good, then even if the people don't particularly like the job, the productivity does the talking at the end of the day, and things run smoothly. As has been demonstrated though, often people will end up liking the job, as they survey the market, and realise how damn good they have it.

I think the pay scales we see offered by employers in NZ, are not recognising the full spectrum of needs in the workplace, they look at schooling/quals/experience, and make a judgement (often on character too), from one or two interviews, and offer what "the market rate" is. Some companies have broken away from this, but the bulk are still comparing collars with steelcaps.

[mattp]

After living and working in London for a while I feel I have increased my stand of living at a much faster rate than I could have back in Wellington. When I look at the cost of living back in NZ against what you are paid it gives me no desire to return. For a start my motorbike would have cost $14+ K and all the parts I’ve put on it would have topped $17K in total. IMO, there is no way that I could get hold of $17K cash (which is how I got my bike and goodies) if I was working back in NZ from only 6 months of saving.

NZ needs to start seeing the facts that many of us Kiwi born people are leaving now to live overseas because of standard of living. I do love the feeling of being home and seeing Wellington when I have been back. But looking for work and seeing with my current skills that I would get nothing over $40K (more like mid 30’s) I see no reason to return. Until house prices get lower or the standard of living is increased for someone in my position I will not be returning :bye: and bring the bike :scooter:

I have been told about a housing crash that could be on its way because of people being given credit and now can't pay it back. I would come back if I could get 2 homes from the money we get for our flat here :Punk:

[Motu]

In the 1920's with thousands out of work,and what work there was not paying enough to live on - Henry Ford doubled the wages of his workers....men would literally kill to work for Henry Ford.But it came at a price,he hired thugs to keep his workers in line.

As Finn says,poor managment skills - but like many other small business men I'm not interested in management,I didn't go into business to become a millionare,small businessmen seldom do.I won't change my ways,I'm old school and will walk away from my business rather learn managment skills,they have nothing to do with what I want out of life.I pay my guys peanuts,they are only grease monkeys afterall.

[Flyingpony]

Businesses just don't value most of their employees. Only the key person whom I shall call, the bosses pet, is valuable and the rest as far as management are concerned don't exist.

Many bosses don't care about your qualifications, your work experience, your hard work effort, your input of ideas, etc. They just want to screw you with piss poor salaries.

Salary adjustments don't take into account inflation or even the recent 75c/hr rise in minimum wages.

My work prides itself on paying above market rates and many people in Chch know that but I felt it odd that it is suffering from a steady 40% staff turn over and how people with more experience than me in the same position as me are getting paid the same amount,,, peanuts. Confirmed my gut feeling with an employment agent, turns out I'll need a 30% pay rise to meet market rate .... because work have ignored my qualifications, ignored work experience and don't value my input. As a result, work has lied to me and that's considered serious misconduct in my book.

So in summary: Businesses find it surprising that people leave jobs or feel unhappy about their jobs,,, well,,, if they paid their workers right and valued their efforts, then those workers would remain loyal. There's also the point that employees know for a given qualification and work experience how much some other people are getting paid. If they're not getting paid that, then they'll move on.

[Pixie]

agreed 200%

My take is that everyone deserves respect until they demonstrate otherwise. That means respect in terms of work requirements, pay, family aspects (i.e. work/life balance) etc.


bullshit
you get respect when you earn it

[Pixie]

Life is like a turd butty...
The more bread you have ,the less shit you can taste

[ManDownUnder]

bullshit
you get respect when you earn it

Employ them, disrespect them, wait till they prove their worthiness and then give them respect?

Good recipe for staff turnover to me

[The_Dover]

But what do you mean?

Of course I'll still respect you in the morning.

[McJim]

But what do you mean?

Of course I'll still respect you in the morning.

You fukken didn't - You didn't even make me any toast ya selfish bastard.

[The_Dover]

You fukken didn't - You didn't even make me any toast ya selfish bastard.

you're lucky I didn't turf you out at 3am like all the other gullible ho's

[R6_kid]

What makes me laugh is all the brats on the 'supersize my wage' band wagon. I never worked for less than $10/hr when i was at school. If you set yourself a goal and stick to it then you'll get what you want.

If you want a shit job serving shit customers at Mc Donalds on shit pay then thats what you get. As for me, i wanted a job away from customers working by myself or in a small team and getting paid accordingly, and thats what i got. You have to make sure that you are worth their money at the end of the day, otherwise they won't want you anyway.

I've always thought that if you didnt pay the people that do your rubbish a decent wage it would become clear pretty soon just how much you need people doing the 'dirty jobs', and that they are worth every cent they get paid.

[Motu]

Guess who does my rubbish?

[oldrider]

Guess who does my rubbish?

Easy one, it's you! :done: John.

[Motu]

But am I worth every cent?

[Flyingpony]

Guess who does my rubbish?
You or one of your workers!


But am I worth every cent?
Don't you simply take all of your metal rubbish junk parts to the scrap dealer and get paid cash for it?

Hell, they might even give you a lolly pop! Well, I got one the last time I dropped my cans off and conditions probably apply