Discussion of Fatal Bike Accidents

[Lord Derosso]

Well sadly once again we hear of another loss. The latest is very very close to home RIP. I have been reading a lot of these threads lately and they always cause bitterness between members and understandly because everyone either wants to know the facts or would like the other half to use common sense and not discuss someone's love ones demise. I can see both points very clear and one point I would like to make which I have seen as the main excuse to want information is that 'they' think they either know the rider or think its 'their' riding mate down the road.

The fact is if you are so linked than you tend to find out quite quickly when someone has gone down big time. I have lost a few mates over the years and word soon got out. I admit I too am curious when I heard of these events but I also agree with members constantly asking.. what if it was you? Would your friends or family like to hear about it from a biking thread? What if it isn't you but could appear to have been you and the same happens??That would cause big time stress. Imagine a friend ringing your parents thinking it was you that had been killed?

My thoughts are perhaps modators only should open any discussion on fatalities after a certain period, and only where it could serve some purpose such as where the cause could be an issue and result in further accidents eg blindspots.I am not trying to wind members up here but I hardly think the sort of namecalling etc I have been reading lately really helps the KB community.

[Colapop]

It's a very tricky subject to discuss. On the one hand there is the sensitivity to the bereaved (many of whom are bikers as well as family) and on the other the desire to discuss the situation so others may avoid the same fate. I think a RIP thread should be just that, for people to express their condolences and remember the fallen. Discussion of the accident should be done in a different thread altogether and regard the circumstances of the accident, conditions etc, rather than the biker (with respect to his/her family)

[Skyryder]

You raise some interesting points LD but most of us use our common sense on this. Accidents as well as fatals are unfortunately part of the biker world. It's subject that should be open to all to report on; not just the mods. They have enough shit on here to deal with without having to wonder if they should be reporting fatals or not. I do however see your point.

Skyryder

[Crisis management]

Good comments, I have never posted in the RIP threads as I have never known the victims and I feel any posting in such a case would be gratuitous.
A reasonable time limit makes sense, let the people involved find out by "official" channels, they work fast enough, and let a respectful post occur say a day later.
I have now idea how that is achieved and it may just rely on common sense....

[eliot-ness]

Discussion, No. Someone died. This is not a subject for discussion on the forum.
Speculation as to who, why, or how it happened. No again. Guesswork won't change anything or make anyone feel better
Condolences to the family. Yes. but no names, even if he was a good mate. There will be time for that after the date of the funeral has been announced. Let all the information come from the family concerned, even if this means reading it in the newspaper.

[Maha]

I agree with Eliot-ness about 'speculation and guesswork' and OMG i think i might know that person!.....RIP threads are (in my opinion) a good thing in that they give us a reality check that it can happen to us all at anytime.

[nudemetalz]

Discussion, No. Someone died. This is not a subject for discussion on the forum.
Speculation as to who, why, or how it happened. No again. Guesswork won't change anything or make anyone feel better
Condolences to the family. Yes. but no names, even if he was a good mate. There will be time for that after the date of the funeral has been announced. Let all the information come from the family concerned, even if this means reading it in the newspaper.

That is the best thread yet. Thanks E-N. I agree wholeheartedly.

[imdying]

Can't agree... with the mates, at the pub, 'Did you hear about that crash in xxxx, killed the rider'... The Internet is just a communication medium, these conversations happen anyway, no point shutting our eyes to that fact. People like to discuss things, sometimes macabre things, censorship shouldn't enter into it unless it's really necessary.

If I make a ghey pass on a truck and get whacked, I hope you pricks mock me ruthlessly on here... maybe someone will learn from my mistake.

If family members hear about it on KB first, then it shows the net to be a pervasive, arguably superior, communication medium... perhaps they're even KB family members themselves... In reality, next of kin are more likely to hear about it from the official channels, so it's somewhat of a moot point.

Some analysis has come from such threads, sure their value is often much less than that, but with everything on KB (or the net), you're under no obligation to read such threads. Of course, it is difficult to always avoid them, perhaps an RIP sub forum would be happy medium, and an adequate way of satisfying both parties (those that think the threads are ok, and those that don't).

Me, I don't post in them... I don't offer hollow condolences to the families of people I've never met, and I don't off condolences to those I do, through a medium I consider inappropriate and inadequate for such support.

[Lou Girardin]

There's no harm in discussion, It's a wake up call for many. I'd just like the maudlin crap knocked on the head.
If you know the guy, mourn with the family.
If you don't, don't go on about a strangers death.

[Lord Derosso]

When I first signed up to this community I recall there was provision for you to name a 'next of kin'. Who actually rings them in the case of a worse case crash? Why is it there? Why should it be there? Surely its up to the police to inform those WHOM need to really know within a day of a crash what has happened?

As I said earlier, like a lot of you people I have gone through the drama and stress of losing friends on bikes, which is comparely rare to all those schoolmates, workmates, associates and family whom do not ride.

Why because we do ride do we treat the fatalities any different.?

I wouldn't expect anyone to report on my passing tomorrow if I died at a whorehouse, nor bring the matter on my passing up in a 'specialist' forum. Remember when you say ..'the guy on the black bike from Kilbirnie' or wherever, it makes everyone think they might know whom it is. Sorry if I piss anyone off in advance. I haven't been around a long time on KB but this subject needs serious thought.

[Lord Derosso]

There's no harm in discussion, It's a wake up call for many. I'd just like the maudlin crap knocked on the head.
If you know the guy, mourn with the family.
If you don't, don't go on about a strangers death.

Agreed totally lou. I ride, I know the dangers. Please people stop freaking out the newbies as you ride and live if you take care and get proper skills and experience. It doesn't matter if you are in a truck or scooter, the road is dangerous. Learn to survive and don't think just because you are 21, you are not going to get wasted.

[Ozzie]

Out of sorts perhaps....?

I remember reading my first, not that long ago, and unfortunately have read a few since.

What went though my head?????

First thought was txt to the guy that had pulled me out of a ditch, on my first KB ride, days before hand. No answer! Left it a while, then tried to call.....No answer..... My thoughts were f'ck, I hope it wasn't ????

I don't know his family, I know very little about him, actually, I cant even remember his real name, but!!!! He is a top bloke, that stopped and helped me out, we had a chat, got on well, have been on a few rides together since, some with KB, some not. I wanted to know if it was him, not for "brag factor", more because I had met him, and would, rightly or wrongly want to express that to his family, through the appropriate channels, should it have been him. This is the only way I would find out.

Thankfully it wasn't him, at the same time it was someone, quite probably someone that was equally deserving of respect, so why not?

In an anonomous forum, even if never seen by anyone, say YOU care?

It matters not whether you knew the person or not.

This forum is focused on bikers, given the opportunity, would you not say "sorry for your loss" to anyone you came across, cager or biker? An innocent death is that, shouldn't happen, is a fact of life, will drawer attention, will drawer comment, but at the end of the day, I am sure, the family is better to know people care. People appreciate what they have lost, the wastage of it all, and how unneccesary it is, who was left behind, and the suffering they have to bear. Not everyone will word it absolutely right, but we are all there, I think that is the important thing.

If I was to bite it, I would want to know my name is all over this site. Sorry he died, he did the odd dumb thing, but was mostly level headed, how did it happen, he stuff up? Silly bugger! He got creamed, poor bugger! Either way, I made an impact, and am missed. Made a contribution, and someone will spare a thought for those I leave behind.

It is, I think, if not it should be, all about humanity!

My Rant done!

RIP all those that meet an untimely and unfortunate death, their fault or not, biker or not, and heart felt simpathy to those who have suffered as a result, whether I know you, knew you or will know you or not.

[Wasp]

I beleive there are some rules concerning the posting of downed (dead) bikers here on kb.

however you have to remember Lord D that in this case it had ALREADY been ANNOUNCED on the RADIO...

[Steam]

All I know is this; I don't let my mum look at KiwiBiker at all, because she'll freak out every time she sees someone died, and she'll think for a moment it could be me, even though she knows what I ride.
I don't want to put my old mum through that, not even for just a few seconds until she reads it was a Kawasaki or some other bike not mine.

So I told her it was full of porn, if she knew the real reason I don't want her to look, that'd probably make her want to look.

[Brian d marge]

yup ,, going to have my 2 cents worth here,

Not long after I first Joined there was a big accident at a raceway ,.... and the fault as far as I could see was clear ,,

I was pissed off ,, because some one had been kiled , due to other ineptitude ( I stiil hold that view, ,,,If if screw up your brakes when I fix your bike , ,,,what I am I going to say dont worry I wont do it again ..

Now I now there reasons, what why and where ,,and I still hold the view that more, care ( I dont know the right word to use , but as a mechanic , if I didnt bolt yur brakes brakes together properly and you crashed , what would I say to your family ,,,sorry I did the best I could , I will try and not let it happen again.... Now As a mechanic , this level of responsibility is what I work with EVERYDAY, 5 bikes a day, 5 days a week ( not now , but thats what its like in a busy dealership !) .. If I can do it so can others ...

Another time , a very nce chap who I warmed to , had a bad accident on a strech of road , ...I really wanted to say what the hell happened fella ... but I didnt think it was the right thing to do ,,,

Anyway .. the reason I go off at the deep end sometimes , is because I like you fellas , I look at my son , and he will be the same as you lot , and I dont want anything to happen to him ! cause I like him too much..

Now IF I stuff up big time , I want you all ...think oh #$%& , then to post here , comments like ,,,Ha , he stuffed that one up ... or Damn that gotta hurt , ( actually , I would be saying things like ,,if I could talk to me ...Dude ..how ya going to fix that one , gaffa tape aint helping that ...)


The reason whyI would post that is because , My family , frends ,, everyone , basically know that my life revolves around bikes , its what gets me out of bed ..and usually is the last thing I am thinking ,,,( except for ways of getting the woman downstairs into an uncomprimising position!)

I now know and understand , the feelings of a parent , as I have a boy of my own now ...( I left home because , I kept on sticking bikes into cars, and me mum had enough of phone calls from the hospital at 3 in the morning , or me walking up driveway folowed by Mr Golightly , Who were very Supportive I must admit !!)

Already he is imitating daddy on a bike and pretending to crash,,,( MX for u my son!!)

So while at the end of the day , I feel its sad that some one crashes , I also feel that its the responsibility of the older kids on this block, to point out HOW the accident happened , Why it happened and try and Edumikate the younger set ....( not that I would have listened ..! , but I might have done if someone who I looked up to said something like ,,dude forget the road , you want to go fast, get a Mx bike ,,,, you learn a lot about bike control... The key here would be I would learn heaps ...

What I am saying here is we dont need to dwelll on the morbid side , , but use the opertunity to guide some others ...

You know after all this time of learning , I still find myself . If the bike is an older plodder , like an old single , I tend to ride like an old plodder , If the bike is a screamer , I find myself riding like Rossi , ( which I aint, so I crash ,,or I do something dumb ,,,

Finally there has only been ONE crash , which I ccould truely think/Identify with as being a true Accident , that when the rider checked the road ahead , pulled out , accelerated , only to find there was a small dip in the road which had slightly hidden a car , the roof and the combination of road sunlight tricked the rider , into thinking the road was clear ...sadly it wasnt


Tricky subject this ,,, but I would like to see some good come out of these threads


Stephen

[Freakshow]

Recently my Nan was severly injured in a car vrs concrete truck she passed a day later in hospital. It was interesting as some members of my family were interested in the how the whats and the mechanical or science side of what happened. Others were more along the lines of it happened move on. From that I believe people grief in different ways and some of us may use the tech side as means of greifing and others that may be too much to handle.

[cowpoos]

to be totally honest.......I reckon biker down and RIP threads should be banded......people can't help them selves cause stress to loved ones by ring around find if people are okay.....the whole things just fucked up!!!

if someones down or dead because of a accident....you will find out....why make it public.....before we have the facts....

[Squeak the Rat]

Fair point, but on the other hand I have a number of people who I consider friends that I just don't see that often. Likelyhood is that I wouldn't be notified if some of these people came to an untimely demise.

Feck it, I thought my mate was down recently due to one of these threads. It gave me a good kick in the arse reminder to spend more time with, and be grateful for, the friends and family that i do got while i can.

Certainly a topic with a wide range of viewpoints.

[nudemetalz]

Just remember, you're here for a good time, not a long time...

Hey, ironically, my Dad used to race Mach111's in his youth in the 70's and Katanas later on in the 80's but was killed cycling to work at the young age of 41.

Don't dwell on whether people are dead or not, spend more time with the people that are alive. You may not see them tomorrow.
Cold hard truth.

[Hitcher]

We are a community. A community of bikers. Unlike other online forums people who post here know other members in the real world. We ride with them, talk with them, laugh with them, laugh at them. God forbid we actually look out for each other. We stop when we see other bikers in trouble and offer them assistance. We offer accommodation to those we know who're passing by. We share our food and booze openly and unquestioningly.

As bikers we understand and accept the risks we take to enjoy one of the most uplifting and rewarding things it's possible to do: ride motorcycles. And we acknowledge that every corner we take, cage we pass, km we ride could be our last. This is the reality that binds us together.

We're interested in each other and wish each other well and safe riding. Consequently we have a deep interest whenever we hear of a motorcycle accident because it may be somebody we know.

We may not be a family but we are a brotherhood. Ride safely and respect each other.

[Dutchee]

I'm undecided about it. I had a workmate & friend killed in a bike accident years ago. He died on the way to work & by the time I got to work, rumours were rife about Erin. I haven't figured out how we found out, but remember the cops coming to work as they didn't know how to find his parents (he lived with his grandparents) - another friend went with the cops to tell the grandparents.

Another friend died on a ride on the Sunday, with the funeral on the Wednesday. We found out Wednesday night, too late for Brett's funeral.

But another friend died on the Tuesday, we found out Tuesday night & saw him Tuesday night - don't know how or even why that rumour started (he was supposedly electrocuted at work) - it was funny as hell discussing what he hoped happened at his funeral but pretty cutting for the hour or so we thought he was dead.

Which of these incidents is worst? In some ways it'd have to be Brett's death, the fact we missed his funeral. I was more gutted with his p/t girlfriend as she never phoned me to let me know. He was someone we saw & hung out with regularly but didn't have contact with other than our hangout (we were meant to go riding with him the day he died). It felt like we didn't really care about him & even though it's 20+ years later, he's not forgotten.

They are 3 incidents in my teens/early 20s that I'll never forget - there are others, but this is more to say that no scenario is right, just be sensitive about what you say & do - do take care phoning relatives of someone you think may be a fatal, maybe just phone & ask to speak to whoever & keep your fears to yourself for the meantime.