Video Camera (Camcorder advice) Pls?

[StoneChucker]

Hey

I am buying a video camera / camcorder in the near future. Can anyone give some feedback, reviews or advice regarding the following models I'm looking at getting? I'm open to suggestions/info regarding type of sensor (CCD / CMOS), recording medium (DVD, DV, HDD, Memory Cards, Mini DV, High-8), etc... My two reasons are for general recording of family type stuff, holidays, etc..., but ALSO recording whatever (myself, blogs, etc...) for putting on sites like YouTube, etc.. I'm particularly interested in conversion factors, size of files, etc...

My first choice is 3 CCD or good CMOS (reviews say good makes have little difference between the two) using the DVD recording medium.

My picks so far:

1) Sony DCRDVD905E (Sony Website - Click to product using left menubar (http://www.sony.co.nz/products/product.asp))

2) Panasonic VDR-D300GN-S (Panasonic Product Details (http://www.panasonic.co.nz/product-detail$product$451$.html))

3) Panasonic NV-GS500GN-S (Mini DV) ( Panasonic Product Details (http://www.panasonic.co.nz/product-detail$product$163$.html))

4) Sony HDRHC3E (a HD model - Don't really want this one tho, too hi-tech for my uses) (Sony Website - Click to device using left menubar (http://www.sony.co.nz/products/product.asp))

1 and 2 are my favs. I don't like the idea of having to transfer in realtime to record to PC, if I get option 3.

Any other ideas?

[MSTRS]

Do you have a DVD recorder/player with HD?
We do, and a Canon730 mini-DV - hookup and download to HDD is no problem & transfer rate is waaaay quicker than realtime.

[Krayy]

All have their good and bad points, but that main one you should focus on is the final quality of the recording medium.

Mini-DV is what I use. It has the best quality of all the current consumer video formats but does require transfer to a PC in order to edit then re-author onto DVD. The main issue here is the size of the files (1.5 hours = ~13gb). Windows XP comes with Windows Movie Maker that can create some fairly good movies with all the basic transitions and titling if you don't want to go over the top. I actually use Adobe Premiere Elements (hell, I actually PAID for it). What I do is record, transfer, edit then the software can archive off the original footage to another location, trimming out the crap so a 13gb tape gets down to ~6 or 7gb and I can archive that back to a DV tape to keep in case I want to re-author again later.

DVD-RAM is convenient but has less quality than DV. It is essentially TV quality recording, so it's okay for viewing on a TV, but if you have HDTV it may look a bit scratchy. Also the in-camera editing is fairly limited, so you'll probably end up transferring it to a PC and using an editing package anyway, and the majority of them will require the footage to be converted from mpeg2 to another format to edit properly, so you'll lose more quality going from mpeg2 to DV then back to mpeg2.

HD recorders have the same video quality issues as the DVD ones, although the medium is a lot more accessible from an editing perspective. If you can find a HDD camera that can record in DV mode, that might be worth a look in as it would be best of both worlds.

I would still fall on the side of DV for the next year at least until the HDD ones get bigger HDDs and DV capability. DV also offers a good excuse to upgrade your computer.

[dawnrazor]

I use MiniDV in work alot its a good option if your going to be doing alot of work. DVCAM is better again.
its all money mate, the more you throw at it the longer you'll have it before it becomes redundent.

for what you want it for, i wouldn't bother going too large - sony are good but you pay for the name JVC are better.

I wouldn't rate the longevity of miniDV being very good though, but you've not got a lot of options - the DVD camera is a bit of a gimmick to be honest, I'd stay away from those

[StoneChucker]

FFS:angry: This is becoming like the bloody Navman issue, fucking complicated:angry: :angry: :angry: (not at you guys, to myself...)

I guess I need to start from a different point of view:
My computer can handle anything thrown at it by any transferring/editing/authoring process (it's a new pc). I don't mind transferring DV to the PC, if that's the best solution. I'm looking for a good vid camera, with excellent image quality, the recording medium doesn't bother me. I'm annoyed to learn the new, top, expensive models of manufacturers vid cameras offer a reduced quality version of their previous models! Why is it so fucking hard to buy something now days.

I have Nero 7 Premium which I assume can do the Authoring. I am getting Adobe Photoshop Elements 4.0 and Adobe Premier Elements 2.0 (latest). So I assume if DV or mini DV is the way to go for top quality, then I'll be all set, right? I guess at the end of the day, it's not going to really matter if the quality is slightly worse than that, or this, or better than that, or this... You can only make a turd look so good...

[Krayy]

Quality:
Sensor size is a big factor in image quality. Most 3ccd cameras have 1/6 inch sensors and most single ccd cameras are 1/4 inch. There are some 1/4 inch 3ccd cameras but you'll pay a premium for those. Basically the 3ccd cameras give better colour representation and depth. 1/4 inch sensors give you a lot better low light capability and the 1/6 inch ones are less able to adjust to low light woithout a light source. My Panasonic GS120 is a 1/6 inch 3ccd camera and I get brilliant colours and contrast, but once the lights go down, I'm stuffed without an external light.

Lens and zoom:
As with digital cameras, forget digital zoom. Optical zoom and focal length is king here and will affect how wide an angle you can get etc. Check out some more professional review sites for better info there.

Reliability and durability:
Heres a kicker for ya. If you want to mount the camera on a bike and do vids, a DVD cam will probably not handle the vibrations all that well. Likewise an HDD cam. MiniDV tape is pretty rock solid on a boik.

Sound:
Get a camera that can handle 16bit stereo input.

[StoneChucker]

cheers....

[Fat Tony]

If you're looking to use the camera on your bike in conjunction with a bullet camera, get a camcorder with an AV-in port

[Mooch]

Stonie,

Once you've seen HighDef recordings you'll never want anything less. Last year I brought a Sony Mini DV Cam. Good size, reasonable quality for video, battery life good. Zoom good , Evening filming in low light (with autofocus)good.

However , if I was buying this year I'd only look at HDD recorders or HD systems. The advantage of Hard disk is the editing time and transfer time.
Nothing worse than transferring six minidv's taking an hour each after going through and sorting editing point. (Two days so far of editing / PC transfer so far).
As far as DVD based systems you’re stuck with Mpeg2 so if you edit and recompile onto DVD the quality drops more that with mini-dv to AVI to DVD. Not a big difference, but slightly noticeable.

Other item to consider is what lens options are available.
You'll find that if your filming in confined environment you'll need a wide angle lens otherwise you'll end up with people’s heads and feet chopped off.

For copying to different web formats , windows movie maker should meet your needs , a nice easy editing program which doesn't take long to master. With WMM I can achieve film edits of roughly 20 minutes of editing per minute of video. Other packages such as Adobe premier takes me roughly 1 hour per minute of video output, however which Adobe the final output is of higher quality with less audio and video noise. Editing can be quicker if you’re not too fussed about frame / scene transitions.

My 10 cents worth. Mooch


I

[Krayy]

Links time:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/CamInfo-Select-2005.htm
http://www.dvformat.com
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/f1

[bungbung]

Hi Dave,

I have a Sony dcr-trv900 (three 1/4" ccds) and a dcr-hc90 (single chip 1/3" sensor) both of these are miniDV cameras.

Transfering DV to the PC for editing is a total pain, because I normally have 150min on two tapes to transfer each time. If you take care of a HDD camera (regards to vibration etc) it would be so much more convenient than miniDV.

A DVD camera will be the fastest way into producing a DVD, but you will be limited to VR mode recordings. If you want to do PC editing, then miniDV or HDD is better.

The HDD cameras I have seen all appear to use mpeg-2 recording. This can slow your editing software as it renders out the frames at transitions and other edits. The quality can drop a little as you recompress the video back to a mpeg-2 for dvd.

In your case, the hdd benefits outweigh the (minor) disadvantages.

Send me an email or pm for more.

Ola

[Krayy]

Couple more links to finsih up for me...DVD vs DV comparos....

http://www.cnet.com.au/camcorders/camcorders/0,39035915,40061716,00.htm
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t108530.html

The HDD cameras have the same quailty issues as the DVD ones.

So essentially it's a trade off between quality vs convenience. If you making kick around vids and not worried about overall quality, then HDD would be the best, but if quality os as issue, then DV and if it is REALLY an issue, the HD-DV (high def DV) but you will pay a premium for the high def.

[Drunken Monkey]

FFS:angry: This is becoming like the bloody Navman issue, fucking complicated:angry: :angry: :angry: (not at you guys, to myself...

That's because your approach is all wrong. Don't start with features, start with a budget. Throw a figure at us, and we'll let you know what you can get around that dollar mark, it will make your choice a lot easier!

BTW, I can do the Sony 905E for $200 less than retail, and my dealer pricing is rubbish. You might find some other members around who can do better yet.

[StoneChucker]

Ahh, the light is shining from behind the clouds:yes: Thanks guys, I'm getting a better idea of the benefits of each type, I appreciate the advice more than you know.

Ok, my budget - $2500.00 (give or take a couple of hundred bucks)
I think I know what I want now, a HDD Vid Cam that records in DV mode (AND any other formats, MPEG2 etc...)

If that's impossible, then a HDD Vid Cam with best quality/features... I'm fat and I have scruffy facial hair, but I'm no Peter Jackson.
I saw the HD Vid Cams - I'm tempted, but I'm keeping my options open. Please keep suggestions coming (to those who asked for the details I gave above), and from here I'm going to read all the links posted here, review my own links, pm's and I'll let ya know what I come up with before I buy.

Thanks again.
Dave.

[StoneChucker]

For those that don't know, I am no longer able to ride a motorbike, so the only vibrations the vid cam might encounter will be during my very private home movies:gob: :shutup: