New Ducati 1200?

[gav]

Could this be it? Looks to be the 1200R apparently a 1100 version will have a SSA and be more the road bike version, while the 1200 will be the race model, so it gets the stronger twin arm swingarm.

[98tls]

Nice..........Very nice,glad they have done away with those lights in the middle of fairing..

[BeakerRAT]

Very, very nice! I want one!

[Marknz]

Indicators front and rear but no sidestand... It's a mock-up of what we might expect to see, but looks good.

[Darryboy]

-edit- don't come home drunk and try to look at pictures.

[sAsLEX]

Nah I think this is it Gav
<img src=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40515&d=1157021812>

[sAsLEX]

Indicators front and rear but no sidestand... It's a mock-up of what we might expect to see, but looks good.

Race bikes dont have side stands....... if what Gav mentions of the 1200 being the race twin sa deal and the 1100 being the roady for the plebs

[skelstar]

Very nice. Very Jap looking front headlight treatment. Dont like the hugger bits though.

[The_Dover]

Race bikes dont have side stands....... if what Gav mentions of the 1200 being the race twin sa deal and the 1100 being the roady for the plebs

race bikes dont have headlights or indicators either.

[idb]

Might be the angle of the photo but it doesn't look particularly interesting to me.
It could be any Jap sprotsbike to my eye.

[onearmedbandit]

It doesn't need a stand, you can tell by the pic. The bike uses new technology called 'Ducati-Balance'.

[idb]

It doesn't need a stand, you can tell by the pic. The bike uses new technology called 'Ducati-Balance'.

It's nothing new.
A ninety degree V has perfect primary balance.

[Marknz]

Race bikes dont have side stands.......

you don't say... you're a feckin' genius

[Marknz]

race bikes dont have headlights or indicators either.

Thank you Dover

[sAsLEX]

race bikes dont have headlights or indicators either.

I beg to differ...... 24hr races like at suzuka huh??






:dodge:

[onearmedbandit]

Suzuka 24hr? Didn't know they ran one. And indicators and number plate bracket on a race bike??? And road tyres? Now I'm confused...not.

[Marknz]

Suzuka 24hr? Didn't know they ran one. And indicators and number plate bracket on a race bike??? And road tyres? Now I'm confused...not.

not to mention that I doubt a modern race Ducati would enter a 12 or 24 hour race these days... the engines just wouldn't last the distance. Happy to be proven wrong though if there is evidence out the to convict me

[idb]

not to mention that I doubt a modern race Ducati would enter a 12 or 24 hour race these days... the engines just wouldn't last the distance. Happy to be proven wrong though if there is evidence out the to convict me
To be fair, I don't think Ducati produce any endurance racing motors.
They're a completely different beast to GP motor.

[et al]

Getting back to the original point of this thread...... I for one am eagerly awaiting more news regarding whether this is really going to be a new model for 2007. Maybe initially they will just make enough "1200's" to homologate for WSB? Hopefully we will find out soon with the Europe Bike Shows coming up. If those mock up pics we have seen so far are close to what it will actually look like then this is (styling wise) what I reckon the 999 should have been. The 999 is still a desirable bike, but if the 1200 comes to fruition then surely there has to be a lot of cheap 999's/dealer discounts up for grabs?

[motoGP]

Maybe initially they will just make enough "1200's" to homologate for WSB?

I guess this goes a little further to confirm the rumours that the v-twin limit for WSB is that little bit closer to being raised to 1200cc. KTM also has a potential 1200cc v-twin prepared for just that eventuality.

[onearmedbandit]

but if the 1200 comes to fruition then surely there has to be a lot of cheap 999's/dealer discounts up for grabs?

You've got a very strong point there, the arse will fall right out of the 999. The 916/996/998 series however won't take as big of a hit, that shape was an instant classic.

[et al]

You've got a very strong point there, the arse will fall right out of the 999. The 916/996/998 series however won't take as big of a hit, that shape was an instant classic.

Dead right, you can actually see that has already happened - some of the more desirable examples of the 916/996/998 series already fetch a higher price than some of the earlier model 999.

[onearmedbandit]

You're not wrong.


Ducati 999 (http://www.motorcycletrader.co.nz/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedBikeID=1774567&TabID=3553&Alias=motorcycletradernz)

998 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports-tourers/auction-67912115.htm)

998 (http://www.motorcycletrader.co.nz/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedBikeID=1517243&TabID=3553&Alias=motorcycletradernz)

[SimJen]

If WSBK allows 1200's then the whole ass is gonna fall out of it. What jap manufacturer is going to want to race in a biased class (as it was a few years ago).
The dukes compete well enough to win as it is. If they cost more to run than the jappers (as Ducati say they do) then isn't that Ducati's problem and not the rest of the teams.
Whats to stop Ducati spending the same money on the 1200's to get them super fast and annihalating everyone in the process.
Problem is it WILL happen as the WSBK governing body is Italian run :(
Cheap ass bastards, at least the new bike looks cool, according to rumours it will look a little like the 916 type shape to get better sales than the current model. The new Desmosedici RR already sports better styling.

[Marknz]

The 999 is still a desirable bike, but if the 1200 comes to fruition then surely there has to be a lot of cheap 999's/dealer discounts up for grabs?

From an economic perspective you are right. But I have found that as the 916 evolved through to the 999 the previous models were never very well discounted when the new models were released. That said, that was the situation in OZ and it may have been a different experience here in NZ. I suspect that, as a gross generalisation, Ducati prefers that dealers do not heavily discount old stock so as to ensure that owners do not lose too much value in their 'investment'.

[et al]

Agree they don't generally officially discount old models however if the 1200 becomes a mass production model they will have to deal with it somehow -
I suspect they would at least throw in an exhaust/chip upgrade, maybe some carbon etc (like they have done here just recently with some other models). I heard a story that when the 2005 999 came out (more hp, lighter swingarm, subtle styling change, etc), they would not let Japan have any new models until the 2004's had sold out - apparently some of these were very quickly exported out of Japan.

[Ducatidean]

That is not the New Ducati.
The dealer meeting is over in Salt Lake City... the TRUTH about the 1098 !!!
the 1098
3 models coming out
at the very same time
maybe 18K-25K i hear.

If ya want to know more join here..


www.DUCATI.ms

[gav]

That is not the New Ducati.
The dealer meeting is over in Salt Lake City... the TRUTH about the 1098 !!!
the 1098
3 models coming out
at the very same time
maybe 18K-25K i hear.

If ya want to know more join here..


www.DUCATI.ms
Well, after scrolling through that 15 page thread, I'm none the wiser. No photos posted on there either. However note in my original thread that the road bike will a 1100, OK, a 1098, guess they need to allow for the 1099 update in a couple of years huh?
PS, this photo emerged but was dismissed as a photoshop, oh well.

[Pwalo]

From what the commentators were saying at the Assen WSBK round Ducati will be running 1200s in the 2008 season.

The Ducati cup yet again? It's a bit of a shame as the WSBK has been really interesting for the last two years. Perhaps it's time to scrap Superbikes and just run a Superstock series.

[slowpoke]

If WSBK allows 1200's then the whole ass is gonna fall out of it. What jap manufacturer is going to want to race in a biased class (as it was a few years ago).
The dukes compete well enough to win as it is. If they cost more to run than the jappers (as Ducati say they do) then isn't that Ducati's problem and not the rest of the teams.
Whats to stop Ducati spending the same money on the 1200's to get them super fast and annihalating everyone in the process.
Problem is it WILL happen as the WSBK governing body is Italian run :(
Cheap ass bastards, at least the new bike looks cool, according to rumours it will look a little like the 916 type shape to get better sales than the current model. The new Desmosedici RR already sports better styling.

What's with the Ducati bashing?
Ducati race to the rules which allow a twin to compete equally with a four. Unless you want to turn WSBK into a "Japper Cup" you need to allow different configurations to compete on reasonably equal terms. No one can compete with the Japanese when it comes to building mass produced four cylinder motorcycles hence we have the niche markets being populated by smaller manufacturers. The only problem is a 1000cc four valve twin only has the valve area of about a 750cc multi so it's always gonna be way down on horsepower, albeit with slightly better traction.
Therein lies the problem of equating the two different configurations. The powers that be have tried to equalise the 1000cc formula by allowing greater mods to the twin which also makes them horrendously expensive to race. Ducati are trying to equalise the performance AND THE COST of racing a twin by going for a larger capacity but with less modifications allowed.
As far as I'm concerned it sounds like a great idea...anything that keeps different manufacturers and configurations involved while maintaining parity has got to be a good thing.

[SimJen]

What's with the Ducati bashing?
Ducati race to the rules which allow a twin to compete equally with a four. Unless you want to turn WSBK into a "Japper Cup" you need to allow different configurations to compete on reasonably equal terms. No one can compete with the Japanese when it comes to building mass produced four cylinder motorcycles hence we have the niche markets being populated by smaller manufacturers. The only problem is a 1000cc four valve twin only has the valve area of about a 750cc multi so it's always gonna be way down on horsepower, albeit with slightly better traction.
Therein lies the problem of equating the two different configurations. The powers that be have tried to equalise the 1000cc formula by allowing greater mods to the twin which also makes them horrendously expensive to race. Ducati are trying to equalise the performance AND THE COST of racing a twin by going for a larger capacity but with less modifications allowed.
As far as I'm concerned it sounds like a great idea...anything that keeps different manufacturers and configurations involved while maintaining parity has got to be a good thing.

I wasn't Ducati bashing as such, its just that if they allow 1200's then whats to stop Ducati tuning the heck out of them and kicking butt......
Seriously if they had any sense then they'd run their V4 and run on equal terms.....all they have to do is produce enough.
The series has unfortunately always been biased in Ducati's favour, hence why so many manufacturers left the fold. I guess the Italians look after their own.

[imdying]

Unless you want to turn WSBK into a "Japper Cup" you need to allow different configurations to compete on reasonably equal terms. It's impossible. Never in the history of motorsport have they ever managed to compete differing engine configurations fairly, it just can't be done. It's pretty much impossible to know whether the 'winner' has a superior machine, or the rules are just biased too heavily towards them.

Even if only one Ducati team (say the factory backed one) takes advantage of the rules (as would be quite possible) and build a 1200cc fire breather stretching every limit of what the rules allowed, you're still back to the situation where they get to built an unbeatable bike.

The answer of course is simple... make them all 1000cc motors... if you want to build a 'slow' engine configuration, then that's your business.

[Damon]

it looks like the bastard child of a cbr1000rr and a triumph 675, kinda lacks the usual italian flair

[slowpoke]

I wasn't Ducati bashing as such, its just that if they allow 1200's then whats to stop Ducati tuning the heck out of them and kicking butt......
Seriously if they had any sense then they'd run their V4 and run on equal terms.....all they have to do is produce enough.
The series has unfortunately always been biased in Ducati's favour, hence why so many manufacturers left the fold. I guess the Italians look after their own.

Gawd, it's not that hard!
Ducati wouldn't be able to "tune the heck out of them" because they would be governed by the same rules as other manufacturers rather than being allowed more leeway as they are at the moment.

Has anyone seen an accurate price on the road V-four? How are they gonna sell enough of those things at the sort of money they are gonna go for? MV's aren't exactly flyin' out the door and the Duke is gonna be at least twice that price.

Biased in Ducati's favour, how do you figure that?
Kawasaki raced the same bike for Christ knows how long, Yamaha should have won the series (R7) but for Haga's mary jane debacle, Honda fucked up big time with the RC45, Suzuki plowed money into the stillborn TLR effort. These guys made a heap of mistakes while Ducati stuck with developing a tried and true formula that any of the others could have copied at any time with their much larger budget's. Ducati may have won a heap of titles but the other manufacturers didn't do themselves any favours.

As it is Honda were gifted a title on the SP1 when Ducati floundered for a decent rider, but I guess that makes up for the couple of titles Slighty shoulda won.

[SimJen]

The extra capacity was always the issue, the extra 250cc at the "time" favoured the Ducatis until the inline 4 technology caught up.
Personally I can't give a rats ass about Superbikes, I much prefer Motogp, where everyone has similar engine configs and performance and the riders are on a much higher level of talent :)

[gav]

This is it, apparently.... Ducati 1098

[onearmedbandit]

Ummm......nice wheels......yeah that's all. Little harsh, ok while it will take a while before another Ducati blows me away like the 916 did, and yes I use it as the benchmark for all Ducatis now, no doubt this is a fine machine. Be very interested to see how the increased engine displacement puts it up against the current crop of Japanese litre class sportsbikes.

[idb]

This is it, apparently.... Ducati 1098

It looks like a very clever amalgam of the 916 and 999.

[skelstar]

Aprilai RSVR style tail lights.

[Fatjim]

You're not wrong.
[/URL]

[URL="http://www.motorcycletrader.co.nz/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedBikeID=1517243&TabID=3553&Alias=motorcycletradernz"]998 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports-tourers/auction-67912115.htm)

Even I think thats over priced, and I own one!

[Nutter34]

Man, that's ugly... It's even worse than the 999.

It looks like they've got some Multi-Strada in there too...

Also, single sided swing-arms are soooo 90's!

IMO, the original pic in this thread would have been a winner... It has 916 cues, mixed with 999 and maybe a hint of Blade, but it looked sleek...

[jonbuoy]

they are all ugly, when I saw a 916 for the first time I almost came in my pants just looking at it.

[et al]

I reckon that looks allright - there is no way they could ever top the 916 styling so I see this as being the best evolution between the old and the new. This is what the 999 should have looked more like - it would have been a better marketing success. Will be intersesting to see if they will bring the "1200" out in 2007, or hold it back another year? My guess is that they will do a limited edition first.

[jonbuoy]

Single sided swingarm is nice, underseat pipes are a bit like arseholes now - everyones got them. Two stubby pipes for each cylinder poking out of the lower fairings breathing fire on the overun would be super cool.

[gav]

Man, that's ugly... It's even worse than the 999.

It looks like they've got some Multi-Strada in there too...

Also, single sided swing-arms are soooo 90's!

IMO, the original pic in this thread would have been a winner... It has 916 cues, mixed with 999 and maybe a hint of Blade, but it looked sleek...

The 1200 may still be coming. The word is that the 1098 is due out as the road version if you like, with the 1198 race replica to follow.
The whole bike is styled to try and capture the original 916 style. Most people dissed the 999 when it was first released, now alot quite like the style and think this one is now too much like the old one! :brick:
Heres a photo of the new prototype out in the real world, super spy shot!

[TLDV8]

I think the 749/999 range was so different to the 916/998 because they were not Massimo Tamburini (The ta in Bimota ) designed....He also did the MV Agusta F4 also.

As far as WSB the first 8 valve Ducati's in the late 1980's were 851cc,the eqauliser was a weight break ...The Honda RC30 of the time was no slouch.

[desmo dave]

them ducati,s just keep getting better

[vifferman]

What a pretty bike (apart from the welds on the swingarm...)

http://www.ducati.com/flash1098/eng/index_eng.html

[imdying]

Nice! All the nice bits from the 916, none of the ugly gay homo fag bits from the 999 :yes: Stole a little bit of Desmosedici too which is cool :)

[et al]

Wow - thanks for posting the flash - that is hot! Sexcellent in fact. If I wanted to be hypercitical stylingwise only thing I am not sure about is the exhaust pipe heatshield - looks a bit fugly and out of proportion to me - but I could live with it (or would remove it). Re-assurring to see they are now talking about it on www.ducati.com so now I am believing that it really is going to happen. One comment I can decipher from the Italian blog (http://blog.ducati.com/post/90/la-nuova-superbike-1098-godetevela/) says: ".... for the base version of the 1098: 160 HP and 172kg".

[gav]

It was always going to happen, the official launch is suppose to be 13th November. Theres been so much speculation and hype (and probably a few "official" leaked photos) that they've just decided to add to the spice by coming out a bit early. Sounds like its going to be $15K in the States, not too sure how that compares to here, but is getting alot of interest, especially from RC51 owners!