Bloody yanks

[Motoracer]

Have you been around the american bike forums?

Most things are similar to KB, like how newbies come on to ask questions on what bike to start on.

Only difference being that insted of FXR 150s or CBR250RRs at the best, they ask if a Hyabusha is a good bike to start on. If not the hyabusha then they ask if R1 or GSXR1000s are good cause they are so light and "easy" to handle.

If that wasn't bad enough, the people who actually give them some "good" advise sujest that a sporty new 600 like the GSXR-600 K4 should be perfect as a first bike. They also go on to say that the maximum size newbies should be getting is a 750 like the GSXR-750. :brick:

To each their own I guess :calm:

[merv]

Yeah well no 250 limit on beginners over there and they rule the world eh!

I understand no such thing as a warrant of fitness test is done either - just relies on the cops picking up defects.

Great country full of rednecks and hicks.

[wari]

Yeah well no 250 limit on beginners over there and they rule the world eh!

I understand no such thing as a warrant of fitness test is done either - just relies on the cops picking up defects.

Great country full of rednecks and hicks.

I might move there ... :eyepoke:

[merv]

I might move there ... :eyepoke:

So are you a redneck or a hick?

[Jackrat]

Yeah,Been on a few yank sites,not just bike sites either.
I always end up shooting myself in the foot by commenting on their "Do as we say or we'll kill ya " atittude.
Biggest bunch of weirdo's on the planet.
An R1 is a good bike for a yank to learn on,bit'a luck there'll be one less of the dickheads after the first ride.

So who's voting National huh :killingme :killingme

[jrandom]

Have you been around the american bike forums?

Used to read rec.motorcycles, but then that's full of potbellied bearded Hardley riding types (including the women).

I generally can't stand online forums with merkin participants. Their utter inability to grasp irony and complete lack of a thick-skinned resistance to bollocking makes it the opposite of fun. You have to watch every word you post lest you upset some idiot from Ohio with no sense of humour.

Also, their language skills are even worse than the average Kiwi's. Reading a long thread of USian-generated posts is just *painful*.

If I had got on a modern 600 or 750 instead of the FXR as my first bike, I think I would have shat myself by the end of the driveway. Being pressured into doing just that has no doubt caused more than a few on-road deaths.

[Motoracer]

Used to read rec.motorcycles, but then that's full of potbellied bearded Hardley riding types (including the women).

I generally can't stand online forums with merkin participants. Their utter inability to grasp irony and complete lack of a thick-skinned resistance to bollocking makes it the opposite of fun. You have to watch every word you post lest you upset some idiot from Ohio with no sense of humour.

Also, their language skills are even worse than the average Kiwi's. Reading a long thread of USian-generated posts is just *painful*.

If I had got on a modern 600 or 750 instead of the FXR as my first bike, I think I would have shat myself by the end of the driveway. Being pressured into doing just that has no doubt caused more than a few on-road deaths.

I fully agree!

I have met some Americans in real life and they are great people but man do the people on these forums lack some maturity. Maybe they are all 5-12 year olds trying to fool each other into thinking that they are hardcore bikers.

Thank goodness for Kiwi Biker :not:

[wari]

So are you a redneck or a hick?

Ime all thingks to All PEople my friend ... :grouphug:

and I ESPecially like this smily :drinknsin

[Motoracer]

Ime all thingks to All PEople my friend ... :grouphug:

and I ESPecially like this smily :drinknsin

One thing's for sure, you'll fit right in! :bleh:

[MikeL]

Now I will stop generalizing about Americans.

I've learnt that generalizing about Americans as a people, culture, or whatever is pointless. There are many Americas. The East Coast is a different country from the West Coast. The Deep South is utterly foreign. For an antidote to the general perception of American bike culture try BeginnerBikers. Main problem with that forum is that they are just too damned polite.

[wari]

One thing's for sure, you'll fit right in! :bleh:

ACktually I dont thingk I willl ...

THey carnt spell propler ... :apint:... ANd I like accuracey ..

ANd thats a fact ...

[Drunken Monkey]

Um, there is actually good evidence (see the 'Hurt Report' = will post the link if I can find it again*) that limiting cc size / horse power for learner motorcyclists has little effect. I think the overall summary was the cc rating had no effect on the _frequency_ of crashes, only the severity of the accident. The other reasoning is that if car drivers don't have cc/power limits imposed, why should motorcyclists? There are some who think there should indeed be cc/power limits for car drivers as well (there's an idea!). The U.S.A. is (supposed to be) a fairly liberal country, so if there's any doubt about a law, they will tend to err on the side of being less restrictive. Yeah, I know this isn't true in practice, but that's another thread!

Unfortunately a written law has to set a point or line that can be crossed and measured (see our own circular debates over speed limits), so we are not likely to have a judging system where more responsible drivers/riders are allowed different vehicles to others.

Cases in point: 1, a friend of mine wrote her mother's SS commodore off = too much car for an 18 year old girl driving on a restricted license at 9:50pm at night (trying to beat the time restriction). 2, I have only ever owned GSX-R750's (3 of them). Been riding 5 years and only binned riding dumb, not fast (day-dreaming then locked up the back brake). I'm sure anyone who has ridden with me will tell you I know how to keep my wrist in check (at least on the open road = the track is a different equation all together!)

(Not that I'm saying I support their laws in the U.S. of A. - I'm just saying there are 2 sides to every story)

Personally I think a compulsory scooter or moped license before car or motorcycle license would be the way to go, but I can't see that happening.

*The Hurt report is supposed to be the most comprehensive study of motorcycle accidents ever produced.

[jrandom]

East Coast

Buncha stuck-up overpaid warmongering mommy's boys.



West Coast

Buncha communist freaks.



Deep South

Buncha straw-chewing idiots who talk too slow.



Main problem with that forum is that they are just too damned polite.

See my post above...

[Drunken Monkey]

Used to read rec.motorcycles, but then that's full of potbellied bearded Hardley riding types (including the women).


alt.sportbike was the one you needed to read...

[Motoracer]

Um, there is actually good evidence (see the 'Hurt Report' = will post the link if I can find it again*) that limiting cc size / horse power for learner motorcyclists has little effect. I think the overall summary was the cc rating had no effect on the _frequency_ of crashes, only the severity of the accident. The other reasoning is that if car drivers don't have cc/power limits imposed, why should motorcyclists? There are some who think there should indeed be cc/power limits for car drivers as well (there's an idea!). The U.S.A. is (supposed to be) a fairly liberal country, so if there's any doubt about a law, they will tend to err on the side of being less restrictive. Yeah, I know this isn't true in practice, but that's another thread!

Unfortunately a written law has to set a point or line that can be crossed and measured (see our own circular debates over speed limits), so we are not likely to have a judging system where more responsible drivers/riders are allowed different vehicles to others.


Cases in point: 1, a friend of mine wrote her mother's SS commodore off = too much car for an 18 year old girl driving on a restricted license at 9:50pm at night (trying to beat the time restriction). 2, I have only ever owned GSX-R750's (3 of them). Been riding 5 years and only binned riding dumb, not fast (day-dreaming then locked up the back brake). I'm sure anyone who has ridden with me will tell you I know how to keep my wrist in check (at least on the open road = the track is a different equation all together!)

(Not that I'm saying I support their laws in the U.S. of A. - I'm just saying there are 2 sides to every story)

Personally I think a compulsory scooter or moped license before car or motorcycle license would be the way to go, but I can't see that happening.

*The Hurt report is supposed to be the most comprehensive study of motorcycle accidents ever produced.

Time and time again I have seen people (mostly good mates) who were inexperienced but had the money to buy very fast bikes, crash way too many times for it to be non cc related crashes.

Ok so engine size isn't everything cause I do know of a guy who had only ridden scooters before, who went and bought himself an Aprilia RS250. Crashed and written off in about 2 weeks.

Inexperience + high performance = trouble (most of the time).

Sometimes you'll get riders like yourself who naturally tend to learn quickly and safely but generally I don't think that is the case for most people out there.

EVERYONE knows that the bigger the bike is the more unforgiveing they are for little mistakes. eg going in too hot or locking up wheels or speed wobbels or spinning the rear tire up while cornering etc etc.

I reckon, a newbie is far more likely to come away with a positive result from a danger situation on a small slow bike than a big fast bike. I thought that was a fact and not just my opinion.

[vifferman]

I generally can't stand online forums with merkin participants. Their utter inability to grasp irony and complete lack of a thick-skinned resistance to bollocking makes it the opposite of fun. You have to watch every word you post lest you upset some idiot from Ohio with no sense of humour.
That's bollocks. In my humble opinion. Sir.
I was on a Murkn VFR list for a few years, and generally they were a good bunch of people. I'm also currently on ST.N (Sport-Tourer Network) and that's a bit different - some of the guys on there are hicks etc. But in general I think they do get irony, sarcasm etc. Their sense of humour is a bit different, as is the culture.

One thing I found very odd was their extreme patriotism and how knowledgeable they were about their own history and politics, while being quite parochial and unaware of what was happening outside their own borders. What was scary was how many of them were REALLY into guns, many of them carrying them on their bikes. Freakiest dude was a retired marine who had been a sniper, and he said he'd have no hesitation blowing away someone who broke into his home, and saw nothing wrong with that point of view. Real siege mentality... :2guns:

[jrandom]

I reckon, a newbie is far more likely to come away with a positive result from a danger situation on a small slow bike than a big fast bike. I thought that was a fact and not just my opinion.

I think it's self-evident. It's really just about how fast you can get into trouble (going into a corner too hot or heading toward a stationary or moving obstruction too fast to avoid it) and how fast you can get out of it.

Getting out of it does depend on the bike's handling and braking but, I think, primarily on the rider's ability to not panic and do the Right Thing. As your ability to avoid and get out of trouble increases with practice, the ability of your bike to get *into* trouble (ie, speed at which it can go from 'happy la la' to 'oh shit' situations) becomes less of a predisposing factor in crashes.

But then I could be entirely wrong.

[Cajun]

I think read somewhere the average of a sports bike in cali before its writen off is 4-6 weeks or something stupid like that, bikes have had a big up over since, movies like biker boys, tourque, and such.

I have many talks with american motorcycles, alot of the older ones have told me they like the idea of our laws, but they can't get the bikes we get, i mean the only 250 they sall new over there is the gpx250, and next is the 500cc of the kawa gpz500.

The younger ones, are like young people the world over, want to be posers, really. but over there, they don't have a choice of getting a nice rs250, new zxr250, so all they can get is a 600, i would perfer someone start on a 600/750 than on something like a valyie(which i have heard about 18 year old guy daddy brought it for his 18th birthday with all the extras(chrome everywhere, him and the bike lasted 1 week)

[jrandom]

That's bollocks. In my humble opinion. Sir.
I was on a Murkn VFR list for a few years

Non-representative sample. They were *VFR riders* fer chrissakes. I mean, like, break out the pipes and slippers, man.



generally they were a good bunch of people

Never claimed they were bad. Just unsubtle.



What was scary was how many of them were REALLY into guns, many of them carrying them on their bikes. Freakiest dude was a retired marine who had been a sniper, and he said he'd have no hesitation blowing away someone who broke into his home, and saw nothing wrong with that point of view.

Two KBers I know of (SpankMe and myself) carry guns on bikes. And *I* wouldn't have any hesitation in shooting a home intruder, although my compliance with NZ's firearms storage laws means that I wouldn't have much chance to do so.

[Edit: genuine question that just crossed my mind. Why is it 'scary' for people to be 'into guns'? I've never met anyone like that who would be a threat to society. It's members of the criminal class getting their hands on firearms that I find worrying, and the criminal mindset does not seem to coincide very often with the 'enthusiast' type that enjoy target shooting and hunting (and who sometimes feel that the use of weapons in self-defense is morally justifiable)]

[Motoracer]

I think it's self-evident. It's really just about how fast you can get into trouble (going into a corner too hot or heading toward a stationary or moving obstruction too fast to avoid it) and how fast you can get out of it.

Getting out of it does depend on the bike's handling and braking but, I think, primarily on the rider's ability to not panic and do the Right Thing. As your ability to avoid and get out of trouble increases with practice, the ability of your bike to get *into* trouble (ie, speed at which it can go from 'happy la la' to 'oh shit' situations) becomes less of a predisposing factor in crashes.

But then I could be entirely wrong.

You are right.

Another factor is the obvious weight difference. When you are on a 250 or less cc bike, less mass means less forces (not as in less number of forces but less amount in Newton of each force) working against you when things go wrong.

[Motoracer]

I have many talks with american motorcycles, alot of the older ones have told me they like the idea of our laws, but they can't get the bikes we get, i mean the only 250 they sall new over there is the gpx250, and next is the 500cc of the kawa gpz500.

That’s right, a dry market for small bikes wouldn't give them many options. A change in the Law could bring plenty of nice small bikes into the US because of the increased demand. However, since all the states in US are like separate countries, it would be unrealistic to expect a Law change like the cc restriction for the whole of USA all of a sudden. I guess they are doomed to be stuck with big bikes to learn with.

Poor buggers.

BTW 750Y, your on to it! It sounds like you are speaking from experience as well?

[geoffm]

Um, there is actually good evidence (see the 'Hurt Report' = will post the link if I can find it again*) that limiting cc size / horse power for learner motorcyclists has little effect. I think the overall summary was the cc rating had no effect on the _frequency_ of crashes, only the severity of the accident.
I have often thought that there shoudl be a power limit rather than a CC limit. there are many 250cc+ bikes that would be great for learners - GS500s etc. They are also bigger than the 250s for those more-than-ample people amongst us.
45hp - same as Japan would make sense in NZ. In Europe, it is 33hp for ages. Uk has 12 hp for learners, which is downright dangerous
Geoff

[Cajun]

Yeah power limits is a good idea, i mean you can get power limiters kits for the busa, yay lets make a 140+hp motorcycle in to a down to anything under 50hp is just murder.

But i mean if 2 stoke 250s shouldn't be owned by learners, thats my feeling, but then ya have to change law, which creates a bigger mess.

[Drunken Monkey]

I have often thought that there shoudl be a power limit rather than a CC limit. there are many 250cc+ bikes that would be great for learners - GS500s etc. They are also bigger than the 250s for those more-than-ample people amongst us.
45hp - same as Japan would make sense in NZ. In Europe, it is 33hp for ages. Uk has 12 hp for learners, which is downright dangerous
Geoff

Good point- a learner can legally ride a 250cc 2-stroke RGV/NSR/et al tuned to 90+ hp. A bike with that little weight and that much peaky power makes a fair mockery of the cc rules. On the other hand, some of those 500cc European super scooters are quite sedate rides = why shouldn't a learner be allowed to ride one? All of you tall buggers know how difficult it is to find a comfortable <250cc bike...

Of course that raises the question of flouting the hp law. HP is more expensive to police. Just look at all those Suzuki street magic 'mopeds' out there that have had the 'power' tweak (grind out those washers, baby) and are running 8-12hp more than the moped maximum.
Granted a cc law isn't bullet proof either. My flatmate rides a Vespa Reg'd as a 50cc moped, when it is in fact a >125cc (can't remember the cc rating) 4 speed...

[pete376403]

Used to read rec.motorcycles, but then that's full of potbellied bearded Hardley riding types (including the women)..

Rec.moto USED to be good value (this was about 10-11 yeas ago, pre WWW as we know it now, my access was via the Welcom BBS). Used to be a lot of trans-atlantic talk (Adny, etc) the big thing was getting a DoD number (which I never did), the Aerostich versus leather, synthetic versus dino, don't mention the guns threads and Harleys were definitely flame bait. Sorry to hear its degraded.

[Drunken Monkey]

Time and time again I have seen people (mostly good mates) who were inexperienced but had the money to buy very fast bikes, crash way too many times for it to be non cc related crashes.

Fair 'nuff, but that's not what I was saying. Your observations aren't necessarily going to be the same as an objective, scientific report.


EVERYONE knows that the bigger the bike is the more unforgiveing they are for little mistakes. eg going in too hot or locking up wheels or speed wobbels or spinning the rear tire up while cornering etc etc.

Was your mate's Aprilla RS250 more forgiving than say, a GS500 would be? Gotta compare apples with apples - not everyone is going to ride a sportbike. A mistake a lot of us sportbike riders make (myself included) is generalise that as the cc's increase, so must the speed of the bike -an assumption that the rider in question is riding a sporty - they may not be. Tourers of the same cc as a sport bike are not going to be as fast (cf a 70hp 1500cc harley vs a 140hp 750cc gixxer: double the power in half the cc).
Geometry effects twitchiness, not engine size. In a strict sense, a bigger engine will have more mass, thus more inertia and tend to not want to wobble about. Sportbikes wobble because of their extreme geometry - front wheel pulled back on a sharp angle, short wheelbase, etc...


I reckon, a newbie is far more likely to come away with a positive result from a danger situation on a small slow bike than a big fast bike. I thought that was a fact and not just my opinion.

If you 'reckon', then it is an opinion. However, in general, I, and most people with common sense, would agree with that statement.
Type of bike is still a big factor. The biggest factor of all is still how much you twist your wrist.

[jrandom]

Rec.moto USED to be good value

uk.rec.motorcycles is the place to be on USENET these days for any intelligent bike talk. It's still more soap opera than motorcycles, though, except for the occasional recommendation that a newbie buy a CG125 (makes Sign of Holy Pushrods).

I have to admit, though, the recent real-world sex-change of a veteran ukrm poster livened things up a bit.

[vifferman]

genuine question that just crossed my mind. Why is it 'scary' for people to be 'into guns'? I've never met anyone like that who would be a threat to society. It's members of the criminal class getting their hands on firearms that I find worrying, and the criminal mindset does not seem to coincide very often with the 'enthusiast' type that enjoy target shooting and hunting (and who sometimes feel that the use of weapons in self-defense is morally justifiable)]
Have you not read some of the gun threads on Murkn forums then? It's not the "being enthusiastic about guns" thing that's scary, but the weird attitudes some of them have, often combined with questionable intelligence.
And the marine sniper dude came across in most postings as being sorta OK, but when he was talking about shooting people, and alluding to some of the assignments he'd had, he came across as a cold-blooded killer, lacking in compassion and some of the more admirable human attributes.
At least he appreciated the VFR for the fine all-round bike it is. Like Merv.
A Top Bloke is Merv.

[jrandom]

The biggest factor of all is still how much you twist your wrist.

How fast you ride the bike can affect things, too.

[Drunken Monkey]

Can be found:

http://www.clarity.net/~adam/hurt-report.html

Thanks.

[Drunken Monkey]

How fast you ride the bike can affect things, too.

LOL - niceone. ;P

[Two Smoker]

I think its great having a 250 or under restriction..... Its all up to the common sense of the rider what bike to get...... For instance im glad i got my RG150, and im still glad that even though im no where near full licence stage (although my riding ability says otherwise) i can still get a RGV/NSR/TZR and still be legal even though i will have 400cc performance......

I think i would most likely be dead if i had jumped on a 600........ but who knows..... i havnt riden anything bigger than a 150 (ive ridden only like 3 or 4 bikes :( )

[jrandom]

the weird attitudes some of them have, often combined with questionable intelligence.

Ah, yes. The 'questionable intelligence' thing. Seems to happen a lot with them merkin folk.



And the marine sniper dude came across in most postings as being sorta OK, but when he was talking about shooting people, and alluding to some of the assignments he'd had, he came across as a cold-blooded killer, lacking in compassion and some of the more admirable human attributes.

Hmmmph. "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die." There's that whole 'bravado' issue. In real life, if you ran into him when he didn't have a gun and you wanted a fight, he'd probably piss himself and run away, or have a little mental-instability moment, freeze up and start dribbling through the corner of his mouth. I tend to define that behaviour as 'cowardly', particularly when it's paired with a readiness to use guns in offense. Probably a good chance he was just full of shit, anyway.



At least he appreciated the VFR for the fine all-round bike it is. Like Merv.
A Top Bloke is Merv.

You guys should get together and share fluffy-slipper recommendations.

[Posh Tourer :P]

some of those 500cc European super scooters are quite sedate rides = why shouldn't a learner be allowed to ride one? All of you tall buggers know how difficult it is to find a comfortable <250cc bike...
MZ ETZ250 isnt that bad. Nice and tall, maybe not quite enough power though?

[Motoracer]

Was your mate's Aprilla RS250 more forgiving than say, a GS500 would be? Gotta compare apples with apples - not everyone is going to ride a sportbike. A mistake a lot of us sportbike riders make (myself included) is generalise that as the cc's increase, so must the speed of the bike -an assumption that the rider in question is riding a sporty - they may not be. Tourers of the same cc as a sport bike are not going to be as fast (cf a 70hp 1500cc harley vs a 140hp 750cc gixxer: double the power in half the cc).
Geometry effects twitchiness, not engine size. In a strict sense, a bigger engine will have more mass, thus more inertia and tend to not want to wobble about. Sportbikes wobble because of their extreme geometry - front wheel pulled back on a sharp angle, short wheelbase, etc....

Ok, I must say, its my fault for not mentioning it before but I was talking about sportsbikes only. The yank site I was talking about only has sportsbike riders in it.

Having a greater inertia may give you stability but when you over cook a corner in something big and heavy, it can't be corrected too easily. Think about steering a small boat in comparison to a big ship. You can steer away from danger in a small boat easily but in a big ship, it takes greater time and distance to make a similar turn. It is harder for some thing with a greater momentum to change direction. Even if the velocities might be the same, greater mass will give the two different bikes two different momentums. I am pointing out that, newbies on big bikes are more at risk of overshooting due to understerring on a bigger heavier bike than a small nimble little 250. I am talking about corner entry only here so power doesn't even come into it yet.

If you wana talk about power then yes, thats another danger aspect. The last thing on earth you want when you are learning is the ability to loose traction simply because of the incredible amount of power on the mordern sports bikes. A simple slip of the hand is all it takes for it to go from the good to bad.


If you 'reckon', then it is an opinion. However, in general, I, and most people with common sense, would agree with that statement.
Type of bike is still a big factor. The biggest factor of all is still how much you twist your wrist.

It WAS my opinion. I was just saying that I thought it also happend to be a fact.

[Big Dog]

[Edit: genuine question that just crossed my mind. Why is it 'scary' for people to be 'into guns'? I've never met anyone like that who would be a threat to society. It's members of the criminal class getting their hands on firearms that I find worrying, and the criminal mindset does not seem to coincide very often with the 'enthusiast' type that enjoy target shooting and hunting (and who sometimes feel that the use of weapons in self-defense is morally justifiable)]
Interesting that I find your edit more interesting than your post but here goes.

I don't own a gun because I have never had enough experience of them to know how to go about it.

I have enjoyed what experience I have had of them.

I have sic'ed a dog on an intruder before.

I would feel little or no remorse in slitting the throat of some one who threatened someone else who could not defend themself.

I think I would have an issue over murder for self preservation or just to protect property.

I would however have no compunction over putting a thief / intruder /rapist that I caught in the act in a wheelchair or coma.

[Big Dog]

I personally have no problem with either system.
For CC restriction. The fact that I was sensible in my aproach to learning is probably why I'm here to tell the tale, not being the most co-ordinated guy and all.

When I go to license my children I won't have to fear them buying a R1 GSXR1000 etc.



The argument against cc restriction.
The fact that I was sensible in my aproach to learning is probably why I'm here to tell the tale, not being the most co-ordinated guy and all. being a sensible dude I would not have got straight on a performance bike anyway.

All but one of my accidents would have been less probable on a bigger bike (Due to my size).

Different people develope at different rates I could handle a 1000cc long before my learners was done with because I rode every day, and in that first year I covered 40,000 kms. some people have only done their tests on the 250 or less then never ridden again until their full came through.

There would be no more ignorant wanker bikers left in NZ as on our roads they would all be dead or scared silly before their license came through. Learner + R1 = natural selection.

[k14]

I read this on a forum a few weeks ago:


This actually turns out to be kinda sad...yet its funny, saw it over @ Quake 3 World, it is from a site with a review of the Suzuki GSXR 1000....

--------
Post 1
--------

"
Bike: Suzuki GSXR 1000
Name: Zuby
Year Of Bike: 2001
Miles: 2100
Rating: 10
Mods
List the modifications on this bike stock, excpet full Yosh exhaust

Carberation
Amazing, I only weigh 150 and I cannot possibly floor the Girl in anything but third gear and still I cant keep the front end own all the time. Have brought the ah ah ah ........... up to 190 kph in second gear!!!! Love it more than my Girl

Brakes
Brakes are great but squeeling in the rear is annoying. Stoppies took a while to learn but now I can do them at 80kph. and I've only been riding for 6 months. This is my first bike!!

Handling
Great. Turns, stops, boots like a god, I cant get over it. Everytime I bring it home I want to take it out again.

Comments
Firstly this is my first bike I have owned and so although I cant compare it I know it is amazing compared to others. I have only been riding for 6 moths and the power is very managable. All those fags out there who say its not a begginners bike cna fu** off. They just dont want the bike to become as common as an F4i. For all the beginners out there, don't settle for anythign but the best. If you are willing to spend enough for the bike, dont be chaep. spend the extra 1 or 2 g's and buy this machine. It is too good to be true, and any of you fags out there that dont believe me email me at zuby_95@hotmail.com and I will drive out to wherever you are and show you that a novice can be the sh*t out of anyone out there. Mind you I weigh 150 pounds, but that doesnt matter, I will accelerate, turn and stop better than any of you boys out there . Email me though if you have any questions about anyhting though, it would make me happy. LAtes P.S The girls will follow you around for a ride, and you will be the happiest person in the world."

---------
Post 2
---------

"
Bike: Suzuki GSXR 1000
Name: Kevin
Year Of Bike: 2002
Miles: 12
Rating: 1
Mods

Carberation

Brakes

Handling

Comments
I am sorry to announce but as you may have read, Zuby has died in a motorcycle accident off the 401 in Toronto. He was racing and crashed at an estimated 310 km/h. Please ride carefully, and wear protective clothing at ALL times.It could save your life."

Dunno if it is true or not, but shows a point of why GSXR1000's are the best bike for learners to learn on.

[Two Smoker]

I read this on a forum a few weeks ago:



Dunno if it is true or not, but shows a point of why GSXR1000's are the best bike for learners to learn on.
Well it is natural selection and his attitude sucked.....

[RiderInBlack]

Another factor is the obvious weight difference. When you are on a 250 or less cc bike, less mass means less forces (not as in less number of forces but less amount in Newton of each force) working against you when things go wrong.Spot On MR:2thumbsup In My Opinion (and I own it as mine), I feel the the weight difference is a major contributing factor. The effect of an increase weight from changing from the VFR750 to the CBR1000 has been the most difficult for me to adjust for. The power differience has not been that difficult for me to adjust for. I would not like to contemplated what would have happen to me if I had tried to go straight from the GSXR250 to the CBR1000. The combination of the power and the weight differience would have been deadly. Starting on the CBR1000, your kidding:stupid: (see the tread titled "How To Kill Your Wife"). The GSXR250 save my learner's arse on many occasion just by being lighter (I'll bore you with a few stories some other day):o

Oh and Jrandom, I liked my fluffy-slipper. It would have kicked your little FXR's arse (come to think about in so would have the GSXR250):kick: So I took your bait, but you'll end up in the water:thud:
"If you are fishing for snapper, be prepaired to catch the odd shark":msn-wink: RIB

[Skyryder]

Spot on Motoracer. I've been riding most of my life but before the Guzzi I was riding 175's 250' etc. My first bike was a 500 but that was when I was in my late teens. In effect I came from a 250 straight up to a 1100 and it was the weight: my Guzzi weighs 257.0 kg's that was the hardest to get used too. Enter too fast and the weight of the bike will carry you over the centre line and into deadman territory. And although I do not like to admit it this has happened a couple of times. Not recently as I now approach corners with a little more respect.

Unexpected throttle twist??
Some time ago a girl was killed in one of the carparkes here in Chch. Am not privy to all the details but this lass was an experianced rider. I recall that she was taking the bike home becasue the owner got to drunk to ride. From what I remember she hit a brick wall. Have heard the odd story that as she released the clutch it slipped throwing her back which in turn caused an uncontrollable throttle accealeration as she was thrown back by the clutch grab. Big bikes can be dangerous for the unwary.

Skyryder

[merv]

You guys should get together and share fluffy-slipper recommendations.

Thanks for the vote of confidence guys, you must be top blokes yourselves. I guess that's why people call me a hothouse flower and I don't do rallies and tents and stuff. Nice warm bed that's me. Wife agrees but she doesn't like it quite as warm as me - individual controls on the electric blanket sees to that though.

Anway what's this got to do with Yanks?

You've heard me say before I have been to USA a bit and did time at Michigan University in Ann Arbor, and I can assure you that on average the Yanks I met do not have the good old all round balance that Kiwis have, so they come across as rather dumb. Top executives not capable of driving a simple calculator for example let alone a PC because that's their secretaries job to do that.

Also the guns thing is scary - I used to chat a bit to people on Motorcycle Online and a few were armed forces guys - and there attitudes were amazing, I would not trust meeting them in the wrong circumstances. No different than some of the good old boys I've met out in the sticks there, they behave just like the kinda cops that John Rambo had to deal with in the movies - pig ignorant.

The racial prejudices were embarrassing to me too - listening to anyone South of Washington DC talking about the blacks. Damn down South of the Mason Dickson line I spent time in Georgia, Alabama and Florida and the way the whites talked still 30 years after the riots was scary. Went to a bar and the band was called "Dave Calhoun and the Trashy White band" and they sung anti black songs FFS.

Kiwis definitely have that edge because of the self help kind of lives we have to lead.

As for slippers I've got the Hugh Hefner kind of plain looking ones but no silk pyjamas - is that VFR enough? and I don't smoke, never have, never will.

[Motu]

You guys are talking about unlimited bikes for learners as if it's an irresponsible act for our leaders to let happen - but that's how it was when I learnt to ride,I could have ridden anything I wanted,no questions asked.

But young guys couldn't afford big bikes so we started out small and worked our way up,learning as we went,by ourselves,not having our hand held all the way.At 16 I got my first big bike,a 1950 BSA B31,that's a 350 single weighing nearly 200kg - I couldn't start it and after I stalled ended up pushing it most of the way home.When my older brother wanted to get a bike we went out looking and I picked him out a nice Triumph T110 with a full Bonny upgrade that had been raced at Puke - this was his first bike.He's still alive and kicking in Canada and rides a Suzuki Turbo.

I guess it all changed when the superbikes appeared along with rich daddies,kids were getting over their heads and we got the learner system.I like the learner system and think it's a good thing,but it was fun being able to ride what you liked,even if you never did.

[Big Dog]

I guess it all changed when the superbikes appeared along with rich daddies,kids were getting over their heads and we got the learner system.I like the learner system and think it's a good thing,but it was fun being able to ride what you liked,even if you never did.
You also seem to be talking about a time when 80 bhp was phenomenal performance, much the same way we view a 184ps Zx10

I remember in the late seventies hearing people talk with pride about their 60bhp bikes.

[bgd]

Unexpected throttle twist??
Some time ago a girl was killed in one of the carparkes here in Chch. Am not privy to all the details but this lass was an experianced rider. I recall that she was taking the bike home becasue the owner got to drunk to ride. From what I remember she hit a brick wall. Have heard the odd story that as she released the clutch it slipped throwing her back which in turn caused an uncontrollable throttle accealeration as she was thrown back by the clutch grab. Big bikes can be dangerous for the unwary.

Skyryder

I remember this one. Assuming we're talking the same case the girl rode old British bikes. The coroners comment was something to the effect that her lack of experience on modern sports bikes was a contributing factor to the accident.


When I did my training (in the UK) I did the direct access course which, on completion, allows you to ride any bike. Day 1 (CBT) was on a CG125 (this was the first time I had ever ridden) and then days 2-4 were on a CB500. I found the 500 much easier than the 125. The handling, quality and power just seemed the make the whole package so much easier.

To do the direct access course you have be 21 or over otherwise you are restricted by power (not cc) for 2 years. You can buy and ride any bike but if you don't have a full licence then the machine must be restricted. That's probably why I haven't heard of many of the 250 bikes that seem to be popular in NZ.

The direct access course was good for me but I bought a sensible bike. I could have bought an R1 but I'm sure I wouldn't have enjoyed the riding experience.

[MacD]

I remember in the late seventies hearing people talk with pride about their 60bhp bikes.

I was damned proud of my 40hp RD350! ;)

It's hard to believe that's all the HP it had, it felt like a lot more at the time!

[Posh Tourer :P]

I remember in the late seventies hearing people talk with pride about their 60bhp bikes.

Like the R100RS - king of the road... umm not any more...


Hey bgd, what is the drivers/riders general attitude over there? Do most people believe that they are better than average? That always plays a part in the effect of regulations. Like beer in germany. Less focus on getting drunk *all* the time means legal drinking at age 15....

[RiderInBlack]

I was damned proud of my 40hp RD350! ;)

It's hard to believe that's all the HP it had, it felt like a lot more at the time!Wasn't that the "Gang Killer"? or was it the RD400? Flipped when it hit the powerband (or so the Urban Ledgion had it in the 70-80's).

[bgd]

Hey bgd, what is the drivers/riders general attitude over there? Do most people believe that they are better than average? ...

Like anywhere I suppose, a mixed bag. Plenty of Sunday sports bike riders (very big on sports bikes here) who think they are God's gift because they have the bike and the leathers. Goes part of the way to explain the high accident/death rate. Other side of the coin there are also plenty of sensible riders out there, many of them very skilled.

Drivers, on the whole, are not too bad. As bikers we always have complaints about the muppets in cages but I can compare to NZ and I think the kiwi muppets are worse than the UK muppets. Contributing factor is the congestion over here where you have to get on with your fellow road users because there are so many of them. Whereas NZ is relatively congestion free (Auckland excepted?) so drivers tend to feel they own the road (my observation) and are surprised when they have to share it.

We have our share of boy racers - they look very much like your boy racers. :)

[MacD]

Wasn't that the "Gang Killer"? or was it the RD400? Flipped when it hit the powerband (or so the Urban Ledgion had it in the 70-80's).

The Kawasaki 500cc H1 Triple really had the reputation for that, it was 60hp with a powerband that came on like a switch. :wacko:

[Motoracer]

You guys are talking about unlimited bikes for learners as if it's an irresponsible act for our leaders to let happen - but that's how it was when I learnt to ride,I could have ridden anything I wanted,no questions asked.

But young guys couldn't afford big bikes so we started out small and worked our way up,learning as we went,by ourselves,not having our hand held all the way.At 16 I got my first big bike,a 1950 BSA B31,that's a 350 single weighing nearly 200kg - I couldn't start it and after I stalled ended up pushing it most of the way home.When my older brother wanted to get a bike we went out looking and I picked him out a nice Triumph T110 with a full Bonny upgrade that had been raced at Puke - this was his first bike.He's still alive and kicking in Canada and rides a Suzuki Turbo.

I guess it all changed when the superbikes appeared along with rich daddies,kids were getting over their heads and we got the learner system.I like the learner system and think it's a good thing,but it was fun being able to ride what you liked,even if you never did.

Didn't they have shocking fatality rates due to motorcycle accidents during that period as well? Of course there are pleanty who lived to tell the tales but in reality I think its a miracle that there weren't more killed at the time (from the stories I have heard of that time). I think the figures that were available to the goverment regarding the death rates were enough to bring our current licencing system into place.

I know that the level and quality of protective gear that most of the riders used at the time wasn't as good as it is today so that would have played its part as well.

[vifferman]

Didn't they have shocking fatality rates due to motorcycle accidents during that period as well? Of course there are pleanty who lived to tell the tales but in reality I think its a miracle that there weren't more killed at the time (from the stories I have heard of that time). I think the figures that were available to the goverment regarding the death rates were enough to bring our current licencing system into place.

I know that the level and quality of protective gear that most of the riders used at the time wasn't as good as it is today so that would have played its part as well.
Don't have the figures to hand (and can't be bothered searching them out), so I dunno. But you're right about safety gear etc. Fullface helmets were only just coming in, and the early ones were car ones (too heavy), and things like spine protectors and so on just weren't available.
It was very easy to get on the road - IIRC you just answered some bike-related questions, paid 50c, and got a provisional license for 6 weeks. I spent a lot of time riding my sister's boyfriend's CB350 on the road (without a license) and friend's trailbikes on and off the road before I got my license and own bike. To get a full license was relatively easy. The bike cop who took me for mine said, "That your bike? Meet me in the carpark and we'll go for a blat!"
(For all that, the test was semi-thorough, and involved the usual hillstart, figure-8's, panic stops, etc.)

I knew a few guys who'd had serious accidents, and a friend of a friend who'd died test-riding a bike (hit a powerpole with his face). A guy at our school bought an H1 Kawaskai 500 as his first bike (!!) and used to drop it nearly every week while he learnt to ride it. His second bike was a Z1, which put him in hospital.
I'm not sure that bike size is that big an issue, so much as attitudes and training. My first bike was a 175, and while smallish, it had a top speed of 85 mph (~130km/h), which was more than fast enough to kill myself on. Even on a 50, a head-on collision will still kill you.

The RD350/400 didn't have 'lightswitch' powerbands like the Kwakas, so that was one of the reasons they were popular and successful. Well - most of them weren't peaky. My best friend had an RD350 set up for prod racing, which was the quickest in the country at that time. It was hard not to wheelie it in the first 3 gears, even riding relatively sedately. Stock ones in standard tune weren't that scary, but were definitely fast.

J.Random - since you are so interested in my casual attire: I wear sheepskin slippers, and have two pairs. I don't smoke a pipe, although I did once when I was pissed.

[jrandom]

Oh and Jrandom, I liked my fluffy-slipper. It would have kicked your little FXR's arse (come to think about in so would have the GSXR250):kick: So I took your bait, but you'll end up in the water:thud:

Heh.

You see, guys, it's precisely *because* of my FXR that I feel comfortable doing the Honda slagging. I know it won't prick your egos too seriously.

If I was poking fun from the back of a GSXR1000, now, that would just be cruel. And I'm a nice guy...

[scumdog]

Yeah well no 250 limit on beginners over there and they rule the world eh!

I understand no such thing as a warrant of fitness test is done either - just relies on the cops picking up defects.

Great country full of rednecks and hicks.

Souunds like South Otago, must be a great place as you say. :Pokey:

[RiderInBlack]

If I was poking fun from the back of a GSXR1000, now, that would just be cruelDreams are free Jrandom:sleep: I wonder how well you'd be able to handle it? Oh and I see the new CBR1000RR is out:2thumbsup

[Deano]

[Edit: genuine question that just crossed my mind. Why is it 'scary' for people to be 'into guns'? I've never met anyone like that who would be a threat to society. It's members of the criminal class getting their hands on firearms that I find worrying, and the criminal mindset does not seem to coincide very often with the 'enthusiast' type that enjoy target shooting and hunting (and who sometimes feel that the use of weapons in self-defense is morally justifiable)]

I used to flat with a territorial, he was very enthusiastic about guns and had a bit of a collection going too. But there is no way in hell I would want to be around him and his toys after a few beers. Once when I wasn't home, he got on the piss, took out one of his rifles and fired a round into the front lawn. Feck knows what motivated him to do that.

On the other hand, one of his mates who was also a gun enthusiast seemed very responsible.

I was watching Judge Mills Lane the other day and he commented about the US cops referring to Mr Smith and Mr Weston, and how they had five rounds. He said he preferred Dr Colt, which had six rounds. Quite amusing.

Personally, I think enough damage can be done with your hands, elbows, knees, legs (and head) if required without resorting to weapons. :kick:

[Mongoose]

One thing I always thought of was when the cc rating was introduced it probabley seem quite reasonable, lower powewr etc but modern technology caught up and now those semi controled vibrating machines are a way more wicked than their predecessors.

[moko]

Yeah,Been on a few yank sites,not just bike sites either.
I always end up shooting myself in the foot by commenting on their "Do as we say or we'll kill ya " atittude.
Biggest bunch of weirdo's on the planet.



I`ve tried a couple and have ended up without fail getting into all kinds of arguments,usually over a throwaway line denigrating some other country or culture.They dont see,or want to see anyone else`s point of view and give off all this macho shit then throw girlie abuse at anyone who loses them in an argument.I had a go at AOL once and their reaction was to totally erase my e-mail accounts without warning,causing me all kinds of hassle,typical bullying over-reaction to a valid point I made.Before that they were actually removing posts I put on one of their message boards criticising their service,so much for freedom of speech,I e-mailed them politely asking if that was their idea of freedom of speech and if they took as much effort giving me the service I was paying for as they did censoring what I was saying then we`d all be happier.Logged on next time no problem but when trying to access my e-mail account was told that the account didnt exist,a nation of bullies with their heads stuck up their fat arses.

[scumdog]

"QUOTE -Hmmmph. "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die." There's that whole 'bravado' issue. In real life, if you ran into him when he didn't have a gun and you wanted a fight, he'd probably piss himself and run away, or have a little mental-instability moment, freeze up and start dribbling through the corner of his mouth. I tend to define that behaviour as 'cowardly', particularly when it's paired with a readiness to use guns in offense. Probably a good chance he was just full of shit, anyway".

Yeah, but looking the other way, how would you cope with lying in a blown up building in 36+ degrees for hours, not knowing if one of the "other side" had you in their sights and having to take cold blooded calculated shots at smoeone 700 or so metres away? ( as opposed to dealing with a threat in the heat of the moment)

Different strokes for different folks - and that is a bold assumtion that he is (a) a coward and (b) would piss himself and run away, still I guess thats YOUR opinion ;)

[NordieBoy]

alt.sportbike was the one you needed to read...

alt.binaries.pictures.motorcycles.sportbike
A.B.P.M.S

Good sense of humor, sarcasm etc.
And the occasional harley baiting thrown in for good measure.

[jrandom]

Yeah, but looking the other way, how would you cope with lying in a blown up building in 36+ degrees for hours, not knowing if one of the "other side" had you in their sights and having to take cold blooded calculated shots at smoeone 700 or so metres away? ( as opposed to dealing with a threat in the heat of the moment)

Oh, for sure. Yes, being a sniper would not be a Nice Job (tm). And if it fscks you up a bit, well, that's understandable, but I've read a bit of commentary from Army snipers (American, even) who've worked in operations over the last decade or so, and they come across as professionals who don't necessarily *enjoy* what they do, but understand the necessity for it. That doesn't quite gel with the description of this particular chap.

[Edit: BTW, you might find that 700m would be a bit longer of a shot than what your average sniper in the field would take with a light (.308) or medium (.338) rifle. They're not superhuman godlike sharpshooters, you know. Then again, mebbe not. What about them Canadians that got a hit on a personnel target with a 50 cal at 1600m or so in Iraq last year, eh? That's some impressive shootin'.]



Different strokes for different folks - and that is a bold assumtion that he is (a) a coward and (b) would piss himself and run away, still I guess thats YOUR opinion ;)

Bold assumptions are what I'm all about, baby. In any case, anyone on the internet who claims they were a sniper needs to be taken with a large pile of sodium chloride, IMHO.

[NordieBoy]

To get a full license was relatively easy. The bike cop who took me for mine said, "That your bike? Meet me in the carpark and we'll go for a blat!"
(For all that, the test was semi-thorough, and involved the usual hillstart, figure-8's, panic stops, etc.)

I turned up on the QT50 <_< and the cop tells me off for doing a U'ie outside his window :Oops: and then says that "the car is at the garage at the moment so just go down the street turn right, right again through the lights and come back here."

He sat on one of those small Telecom lumpy things on the footpath and that was it.

I didn't even take any shortcuts at all to bypass the lights - nope wasn't me must have been someone else :rolleyes:

Ahhh 1984.

[BrianNZ]

[QUOTE=Fish;58169]Used to read rec.motorcycles, but then that's full of potbellied bearded Hardley riding types (including the women).


I'm a regular at 'reeky' and enjoy widing the Septics up as much as possible.
They love to lord it over the rest of the world, so I do my bit to trip them up whenever possible. There's a good variety there, from Germany, England, Canada.......
Get back on the forum, and get your mates there as well and soon they will be outnumbered by Kiwi's :) .

Potbellies keep you warm......

[toycollector10]

When I was a boy the dealers wouldn't just sell you what you wanted. If you rocked up on your BSA Bantam with a deposit for a Commando they would tell you to go away. "Get yourself a 350 single then come back in 12 months for a 500 twin". And so it went. And rightly so.

[Waylander]

Yeah well no 250 limit on beginners over there and they rule the world eh!
Uh yes there is. Riders permit is the first thing you can get and that only allows you up to a 250 and within sight of a rider that has had their full licence for 5 years or something like that.

However you can get your permit and full on the same day so that really doesn't matter.


I understand no such thing as a warrant of fitness test is done either - just relies on the cops picking up defects.
State inspection is actually more strict than NZ W.O.F. and has to be done every year. Full inspection as if it was the first time being registered each time.


Great country full of rednecks...
You say that like it's a bad thing.:done:



And damn what a thread dredge lol.

[scracha]

Non-representative sample. They were *VFR riders* fer chrissakes. I mean, like, break out the pipes and slippers, man.

Oy!



Two KBers I know of (SpankMe and myself) carry guns on bikes.

Not that I'd argue with you :bye:

[scracha]

We have our share of boy racers - they look very much like your boy racers. :)

Except they tend to drive 1.4 litre Fiats and things instead of 3 litre Jap turbos.

[mstriumph]

..................And the marine sniper dude came across in most postings as being sorta OK, but when he was talking about shooting people, and alluding to some of the assignments he'd had, he came across as a cold-blooded killer, lacking in compassion and some of the more admirable human attributes.
At least he appreciated the VFR for the fine all-round bike it is. Like Merv.
A Top Bloke is Merv.


shooting people

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm :love:

VFR - was that the 'questionable' bit? :innocent:

[Hillbilly]

I have often thought that there shoudl be a power limit rather than a CC limit. there are many 250cc+ bikes that would be great for learners - GS500s etc. They are also bigger than the 250s for those more-than-ample people amongst us.
45hp - same as Japan would make sense in NZ. In Europe, it is 33hp for ages. Uk has 12 hp for learners, which is downright dangerous
Geoff

NSW and some other states have the LAMS scheme based on a power to weight ratio. Some "learner approved" bikes include the Suzuki GS500(f), the Kawasaki KLE500 & ER500, Yamaha XT660X & R, Ducati Monster 620i, Hyosung GT650R & GV650, Yamaha XVS650 V-Star, Suzuki DRZ400SM, Aprilia Pagaso Strada 650, KTM 640 Adveture, Cagiva Canyon 500 and more. The entire list can be viewed here:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyclesnoviceriders.html

As far as the Yanks go, they're stange alright. I posted a thread about the Aussie bushfires on a US gaming forum, and got the reply "What has Australia ever done for me?" Now is that selfish or what?

[jrandom]

As far as the Yanks go, they're stange alright. I posted a thread about the Aussie bushfires on a US gaming forum, and got the reply "What has Australia ever done for me?"

Well... he does have a point, there.

:laugh:

[Ixion]

It says something about something that the Aussies class the Bonnieville as a learner bike.

And something abou the crusty who compiled the list that he included the Rudge Ulster!

And something else about something else that it also includes the 500cc BSA Gold Star DB34! But weirdly, not the 250 DB32. Or even the boring B31.

Or something.

[Hillbilly]

It says something about something that the Aussies class the Bonnieville as a learner bike.

And something abou the crusty who compiled the list that he included the Rudge Ulster!

And something else about something else that it also includes the 500cc BSA Gold Star DB34! But weirdly, not the 250 DB32. Or even the boring B31.

Or something.

Yeah, but which Bonneville? The crusty must've been thinking about the first model that came out. Was that in the '60s or '70s. Bit of a larf though. Can you imagine riding a modern 865cc Bonnie T100 with an L-Plate on the back? (after major crash and hospital visit from cops) "But officer, it is on the list of learner approved motorcycles - honestly!"

[Lou Girardin]

Big bikes for newbies is a great idea. It made me the man I am. It almost made me the man I wasn't.

[Ixion]

Yeah, but which Bonneville? The crusty must've been thinking about the first model that came out. Was that in the '60s or '70s. Bit of a larf though. Can you imagine riding a modern 865cc Bonnie T100 with an L-Plate on the back? (after major crash and hospital visit from cops) "But officer, it is on the list of learner approved motorcycles - honestly!"

No, there is an absolute limit of 660cc, so it would have to be the T120. But the modern Bonnie is probably a better learner bike than the Meridan machine.

(First pre unit T120 was 1959)

[Edbear]

Or even the boring B31.



How can you say the B31 was, (is), boring...!!!!????:gob:

Mine was many things - loud, slow, a pig to start, (how many times it nearly broke my foot/ankle trying to start it!), drab paint job, but never boring!

It looked cool and got admiring comments, that's except the local cop who gave me a lecture and asked me to please ride a bit more quietly up my street as a lady had complained about the noise! (Gutted Dunstall megaphone does that... especially wound hard out in second!). The highlight of ownership was dragging off that FJ Holden up Bank St. in Warkworth! You'd have thought I'd won the TT! :third:

It would do 70 mph, (115km/h) flat on the tank as confirmed by my mate on his 360 Honda while he was still sitting bolt upright! :bye:

A great learner bike if ever there was one!:yes:

[Lucy]

Haven't quite got time to read this whole thread, but I know there is a power limit for beginners in Colorado at least. And as for big bikes, they have a lot of really long, really straight roads over there. Comparing it to here is pointless.

[Waylander]

Haven't quite got time to read this whole thread, but I know there is a power limit for beginners in Colorado at least. And as for big bikes, they have a lot of really long, really straight roads over there. Comparing it to here is pointless.
Not in Colorado there isn't lol. Entire state of mountains almost. Even beats NZ for twistie roads though most of them are under snow a good portion of the year.

[Lucy]

Not in Colorado there isn't lol. Entire state of mountains almost. Even beats NZ for twistie roads though most of them are under snow a good portion of the year.


Oh yeah, bad example on my part! I just will always remember hearing some American people talking about skiing (I think they were West Coasters) and on hearing that a skifield was four hours away, the main reaction was 'Wow that's close, you are so lucky'. I was shocked that '4 hours' was deemed close.

[Waylander]

Oh yeah, bad example on my part! I just will always remember hearing some American people talking about skiing (I think they were West Coasters) and on hearing that a skifield was four hours away, the main reaction was 'Wow that's close, you are so lucky'. I was shocked that '4 hours' was deemed close.
Lol where I am form it took half a day to get to the beach. Only takes me 2 hours to get from one coast (tauranga) to the other (raglan) here.

[Guitana]

Big bikes for newbies is a great idea. It made me the man I am. It almost made me the man I wasn't.

Yeah the more slack jawwed,mullet headed,yokels crash their superbikes at speed the better it might raise the IQ of the country!!!
I met some yanks a while back and it was amazing just how pig ignorant they really are!!!