Written-off bike - re-registered

[jonbuoy]

I had a phone call from a guy last night about my old GSXR600. It was written off in an accident two years ago after a highside. Its landed heavily on its crash bungs and cracked the frame on the engine mount. Apparantly its been put back on the road - I told him to be carefull as the Suzuki dealer told me the frame couldn't be re-welded at a structural point like that. The only way to put it on the road was to get a second hand frame.

If it had a new frame would it still have the old rego details and have me as a previous owner? I'm not bothered about someone re-building it in a new frame and putting it on the road again, but welding up the old frame and putting it back on the road doesn't seem right.

[snuffles]

Is there anyone you can call, LTNZ or something? doesnt sound right to me.

[The Pastor]

You cant make a judement baised on just what one person said. It might be better than factory welded up, or it might be worse, you'd have to do some tests on it (but most tests invlove bending or cutting the weld hehe)

What does a dealer know about welding anyways?

[jonbuoy]

I don't want to stir up shit for someone for no reason, if it could have been repaired when I had I will be a bit gutted - I can see why no-one wanted to weld it up when I had it, especially as it was an insurance job. Its not the sort of thing youd want to break while riding it.

[jonbuoy]

What does a dealer know about welding anyways?

I'd say they know a fair bit - they must know what can and can't be done - theyd see a few bent bikes over the years.

[Motu]

It would of had to be VINned for a rerego,hopefully they would pick up a dodgy repair.It's a bit hard to diguise a bad weld with a good weld over the top...if they are capable of making it look good,they should of done a good repair too.

[texmo]

I had a phone call from a guy last night about my old GSXR600. It was written off in an accident two years ago after a highside. Its landed heavily on its crash bungs and cracked the frame on the engine mount. Apparantly its been put back on the road - I told him to be carefull as the Suzuki dealer told me the frame couldn't be re-welded at a structural point like that. The only way to put it on the road was to get a second hand frame.

If it had a new frame would it still have the old rego details and have me as a previous owner? I'm not bothered about someone re-building it in a new frame and putting it on the road again, but welding up the old frame and putting it back on the road doesn't seem right.

Thanks dude, I gave you the call last night. Heres your bike (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports-tourers/auction-67657182.htm) had a look last night been re-welded. I think I wont be getting this one. Thanks again, must have been a bit strange me calling ya up.

[texmo]

You cant make a judement baised on just what one person said. It might be better than factory welded up, or it might be worse, you'd have to do some tests on it (but most tests invlove bending or cutting the weld hehe)

What does a dealer know about welding anyways?

You cant make a weld as good as a factory, do you know how to heat treat a frame like them?

[TLDV8]

I had a phone call from a guy last night about my old GSXR600. It was written off in an accident two years ago after a highside. Its landed heavily on its crash bungs and cracked the frame on the engine mount. Apparantly its been put back on the road - I told him to be carefull as the Suzuki dealer told me the frame couldn't be re-welded at a structural point like that. The only way to put it on the road was to get a second hand frame.

If it had a new frame would it still have the old rego details and have me as a previous owner? I'm not bothered about someone re-building it in a new frame and putting it on the road again, but welding up the old frame and putting it back on the road doesn't seem right.


Who wrote the frame off,the insurance company ?

Where was the crack,in the actual casting that attachs to the frame spar or in the casting to spar weld or next to it in the extrusion ?

[TLDV8]

I wonder how many Suzuki TL1000S owners have been given replacement frames after they cracked at the rear rotary damper mount ? ( Cause,excess clearance between the damper and two mounting lugs,mounting holes being drilled unparallel)

Might be worth a thread out of curiousity.

[jonbuoy]

Thanks dude, I gave you the call last night. Heres your bike (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports-tourers/auction-67657182.htm) had a look last night been re-welded. I think I wont be getting this one. Thanks again, must have been a bit strange me calling ya up.

Not a problem mate. Good luck with the searching. Sounds a bit dodgy though eh?

[texmo]

More than anything the guy is dogy as fuck he told me he owned it for 1.5years then told death_inc he owned it for 2.5 years about 3minutes later. Said he knew nothing about it. and brought it registered but it says he got it revinned on the report...

[jonbuoy]

Thats not good, lucky you called last night - I'm moving house tommorrow and the phone has just been disconnected! I spose it would be fine as a trackday bike. How good was the welding? Its nice to see it again, brings back some good memories. (and one not so nice he he).

[Loose Nut]

Devils advocate says if the crash bung mount was to break, it would break at the thinest eyelet end rather than the frame end. A re-weld at the eyelet end would not necessarily(?) reduce the strength of the frame. Although the engine mount may be weaker? Is a GSXR engine a stressed member?

[texmo]

The bike is fucking sweet if I didnt buy something else I would have brought that for $7.5k which was the reserve its a fucking cheep bike. You will have no problems with it other than resale value, PM death_inc hes a wealder/engineer/bike mechanic he looked at it for me....

[Wired1]

I don't believe they take a bike apart to do the re-vinning, if it was a broken weld on the steering head they may not find it if it was under the tank or fairing etc. It is a bit of a worry if they allow a written-off bike to be re-registered without a thorough mechanical inspection. On most bikes the original frame number is hidden behind the fairing/tank/headlight on the steering head and it may be hard to read without dismantling the bike. It also depends on the bike - there are plenty of damaged and rebuilt vintage bikes out there, all safe and sound thanks to small engines and good repairs.

[jonbuoy]

I had another call about it a couple of nights ago. I don't know enough about Vinning and frame repairs to be able to say its safe or not. But if I had two choices a straight bike and a repaired bike I'd know where I'd spend the money.

[texmo]

I don't believe they take a bike apart to do the re-vinning, if it was a broken weld on the steering head they may not find it if it was under the tank or fairing etc. It is a bit of a worry if they allow a written-off bike to be re-registered without a thorough mechanical inspection. On most bikes the original frame number is hidden behind the fairing/tank/headlight on the steering head and it may be hard to read without dismantling the bike. It also depends on the bike - there are plenty of damaged and rebuilt vintage bikes out there, all safe and sound thanks to small engines and good repairs.

They take all the fairings off to do a vin... trust me I worked at a vinning station. and Yes its fine I was going to get it but got somethign else instead.

[Wired1]

Awesome, finally a government system that actually works!

[oldguy]

You cant make a weld as good as a factory, do you know how to heat treat a frame like them?wrong there are guys out there that would easy do as good a job if not better that factor welding,

[imdying]

wrong there are guys out there that would easy do as good a job if not better that factor welding,I agree about the welding, although the robots do a pretty nifty job, but I think it was more the heat treating he was worried about.

[texmo]

I agree about the welding, although the robots do a pretty nifty job, but I think it was more the heat treating he was worried about.

What he said:yes:

[Wired1]

Do they heat treat frames? I wouldn't have thought so...

[imdying]

Do they heat treat frames? I wouldn't have thought so...

I can't give you an answer to that, that isn't mostly rumor and supposition I'm afraid. Having said that, from what I've 'heard' over the years, some aspect of a frames 'heat treating' is a key reason why they're difficult to repair (weld). I do have a vague thought going around in my head from I can't remember where, that this applies mostly to 'beam' type frames, those that use aluminum extrusions as their frame members. I have no idea whether it applies to the trellis style frames used on dukes, or the die cast styles frames, as used on something like my SV. Something nagging at me, something perhaps in a book I've read, makes me think that is was the extruded aluminum ones that were the problem, a technique that is used in GSXR frames. I've no idea whether that applies in this case, and no idea how localised heating can cause problems however (i.e. whether engine mounts, which are on cast sections, can be fixed). I realise that bugger all of that helps, sorry.

[Shaun]

Frames are not heat treated when built at the factory, the welding process is done by robots in a jig!

If you got any brand new bike and took it to say F1 engineering, I could all but gaurantee you the frame will not 100% True.

Top professional teams that race SB and so on, strip there frames out, send them to a chassis alingment expert, have them checked and pulled or pushed or what ever is required and then send the frame to the Baker to relieve any potentuall stress in the chassis.

As far as Vin;s go, it is just as Texmo said, they want the fairings removed, and if there is any documented history of frame welding needed to be done, they will want an engineers report with proof of the welding procedure, as well as proof that the welder is ticketed to do such a job.

A weld if done correctly is stronger than the parent material !

I would ride/race any bike that has been trashed and repaired, as long as the above procedure was done.

Some people have even gone as far as running over Factory welds with the Tig Tourch with a view of stress relieving the frame, each to there own I guess.

[imdying]

There ya go then :yes:

What does 'send the frame to the Baker' mean?

[geoffm]

You cant make a weld as good as a factory, do you know how to heat treat a frame like them?

I think you will find the factory frames are a self hardening 7000 series ali, so they don't need post welding heat treatment. You would have to use the right filler rod and be a good welder. I woudln't do it.
Performance Bikes had an article by the late, great John Robinson on the material used in swingarms, including an analysis and tests of aftermarket swingarms. This was back when PB used to be a decent mag, not a boy racer bling sheet.
Geoff

[Loose Nut]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=100141260
The same bike (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=100141260)is back up for auction. Buyer beware.

[Mully]

That's interesting, I saw this bike the other day.

Different guy selling it though, he may not know it's history. There is no feedback between the old seller and the new seller.

[wildcat_lgf]

If its an insurance written-off bike, it is de-registered as "written off by insurer" they assign the claim number to it and so it is flagged when you go back to get it re-vinned.

[Mully]

Different guy selling it though, he may not know it's history. There is no feedback between the old seller and the new seller.

Actually, it could be the same guy. Andrew from Franklin and Andrew from Manukau. Current seller has only been a member since April.....

The plot thickens.

[Loose Nut]

I wonder if they had that rule in place 3 years ago?

[Cajun]

some people are just plain dodgy

[ali]

Topic takes my fancy, having just had to re-vin / register my blackbird ( which I purchased as a write-off).

It was a lesson in patience (which I don't have)

If a bike has been written off, the insurance coy will notate on the file as to the type of damage. If structural, any repairs must be carried out by a certified welder/ repairer ( as mentioned ).

It appears all testing stations are just as tough ( I tried around)

One lesson learnt when replacing parts ( mirrors, fairing blade etc ) is to use the internet, Eagle screens, Australia, were excellent, and a lot cheaper than I could find locally:mellow: :mellow: