PC Software Legitimacy Poll

[StoneChucker]

I'm curious to see how Average Joe runs his computer. Vote in the poll...
(for those quick folk who get here before I add the poll, wait till I add the poll - duh!)

[sAsLEX]

Though starting to look for open source free stuff as I like that concept!

Go Linux!

[The Pastor]

dont vote, this is all so the cops can BUST YOUR ASS MAN! THE MAN IS EVERYWHERE!

[Motu]

When I got this computer it came with home XP,but now it seems to have business XP....and the last couple of weeks I get a ''your system may be at risk,windows has detected.....'' pop up when I start up.My son in law is a geek and when he fixes things he pulls out folders of CD's and starts loading them up.I think he reformated once,and used one of his versions of XP,not mine.I dunno about these things - but as my wife says about her car.....''I just wish he'd leave it alone''.

[sAsLEX]

When I got this computer it came with home XP,but now it seems to have business XP....and the last couple of weeks I get a ''your system may be at risk,windows has detected.....'' pop up when I start up.My son in law is a geek and when he fixes things he pulls out folders of CD's and starts loading them up.I think he reformated once,and used one of his versions of XP,not mine.I dunno about these things - but as my wife says about her car.....''I just wish he'd leave it alone''.

get your son in law back around as there is some new cracks around that annoying pop up
........ or so I have heard!

[rwh]

I'm curious to see how Average Joe runs his computer. Vote in the poll...
(for those quick folk who get here before I add the poll, wait till I add the poll - duh!)

All legit, and none of it paid for. Free software all the way! :rockon:

I guess I have to choose the last option, since I haven't registered any ...

Richard

[07fatboy]

:innocent: :whistle: :blip: he he he:blip: :whistle: :innocent:



CHUCK A WHEELIE BRO

[scracha]

When I got this computer it came with home XP,but now it seems to have business XP....and the last couple of weeks I get a ''your system may be at risk,windows has detected.....'' pop up when I start up.My son in law is a geek and when he fixes things he pulls out folders of CD's and starts loading them up.I think he reformated once,and used one of his versions of XP,not mine.I dunno about these things - but as my wife says about her car.....''I just wish he'd leave it alone''.

To fix it yourself, go here (only works with Internet Explorer):-

http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/selfhelp/pkuinstructions.aspx

There's also
http://catalog.microsoft.com/genuine/purchase/UpdateInstructions.aspx

Put in the LEGIT license key that should be on the COA sticker on your PC (if it's legit it should be on there). All perfectly legal.

[riffer]

Well, the PC I'm on at the moment is running Dapper Drake Ubuntu, so everything on it is GPL.

My Mac is 90% legitimate, but the Games PC is a bit dodgy...

[Zed]

All legit here, Microsoft XP Pro and Office Suite 2003 both registered and activated on one pc. I worked in IT for a few years and took full advantage of wholesale pricing, also when I did my systems technology diploma it was drummed into me from the beginning how rife software theft & piracy had become, thus confirming what I already thought to be true.

It is far too easy to fall into such theft nowadays, many have been duped into believing it's trivial and acceptable, yet it is a chargeable offence. :dodge:

[Oakie]

All legit but I don't register everything.

[bugjuice]

what, you have to pay for this stuff..??

[dhunt]

Laptop came preinstalled with Xp Home - Let it boot to the registration screen and decided that was too far and install Linux. All software is open source.

Desktop came with illegal copy of Windoze Xp let it boot once to prove the hardware works. Been running linux ever since.

Both running Gentoo unstable

Edit: Voted Other - as all software is legit opensource but you don't register it so didn't tick that box.

[gijoe1313]

We should have another poll after this one to see who are renegade Mac users! :innocent: I think some of my Apple //e stuff was bootlegged but that was fer saving game purposes!

[hurricane_r]

windows vista beta , need i say more

[bluninja]

The 2 desktop PCs on XP are all legit, and the 98 PC under the stairs, the XP Laptop is legit, and the Apple notebook OSX .....yawn...anyone else bored yet...as for work....it seems.....we're sharing 400 licenses for 1500 PCs and 2500 users, though all the Apple stuff is legit.

Strange poll...shoulda been one for...Are all your bike parts legit?, are they all OEM? Do you use any homemade parts?

Hey maybe I should run a poll about if I should run a poll....Race 2 of WSB on in a few minutes. Better go do something more interesting...

[bugjuice]

windows vista beta , need i say more

no.... we feel your pain...

[Lias]

People pay for software in this day and age?

What are you smokin and where can I get some...

[Drunken Monkey]

...how rife software theft & piracy had become, thus confirming what I already thought to be true....

... many have been duped into believing it's trivial and acceptable, yet it is a chargeable offence. :dodge:

Oh that's right. By pirating MS software, we're really destroying the profits of that small, hard working company Microsoft. They'll never take off and grow. That poor Gatesy, he'll be driving around in a beat up old Corolla for the rest of his life and continue living in a shack if we don't start paying for our software. I mean c'mon, $900 for an operating system is cheap, and 'MS Office', heck we all want to use 99% of its features, we should be thankful they only charge us $1400 for the Professional pack (gotta have Access, I use it every day!). Heck, these days it's even better than that. Did you know you can buy this kind of upgrade scheme called "Upgrade Advantage"? You can empty your pockets even more on the premiss that if a new version of software comes along in three years, you can have the upgrade "for free"? Did you also know that people who got suckered into this bullshit scheme when it started 3 years ago have now had their SA lapse and MS have failed to release any new versions of their OS or Office in this time? They've effectively thrown more money at their licenses for nothing. Nada. Zip. I think that's a perfectly acceptable business practice, don't you?

Seriously now, maybe if they weren't such rip-off merchants who peddle garbage software, people might be inclined to pay for it. The MS pricing scheme is a crock of shit, and as a completely irresponsible IT guy, I actively encourage people to show their distrust and pirate away! Power to the people!

[The_Dover]

I love that pop up.

"You make be the victim of software counterfeiting"

fuck, and don't I feel victimised.

[MrMelon]

I paid for a couple of online games I used to play that needed cd keys (quake1/2/3, battlefield 1942 etc.) but the rest of my software's a gift from Mr Gates.

If there's something I use a lot that's really worth paying for I'll buy it.

[phaedrus]

I made the switch to linux about 3 years ago. No more bullshit EULAs, no more bullshit pricing, and no more bullshit sharing is theft mentality

[ManDownUnder]

...but as my wife says about her car.....''I just wish he'd leave it alone''.


My wife says that too - but it's not about her car...

[ManDownUnder]

no.... we feel your pain...

I don't... maybe if he stood a little closer?

[StoneChucker]

It is far too easy to fall into such theft nowadays, many have been duped into believing it's trivial and acceptable, yet it is a chargeable offence. :dodge:
Actually, I agree 100% with Zed here! We're not only talking about Microsoft, what about programs like Winzip, Nero 7, Adobe (Photoshop, Elements, etc...), SereneScreen Marine ScreenSaver (yes really), Command and Conquer Full Decade Set, World of Warcraft, Norton Internet Security, Norton SystemWorks, McAfee Internet Security, McAfee Anti-Spyware, the list goes on indefinitely...

From the poll (which is relatively indicative of general society, if not slightly more towards the piracy side), 79.8% of people think it's ok to steal stuff they don't want to pay for (or can't). Even if it is Microsoft, why is it ok to use any version of Windows just because you've stolen it? I understand why people pirate it, if it's because they really need a pc but are flat broke, but I have issue with the group of those people who think that that's ok... At least be ashamed, or admit it's wrong. Just because a company is super successful, doesn't automatically make it ok to steal their products (even if they are sharks, but wouldn't you be if you could make shitloads of cash, honestly?).

It's especially relevant with regards to smaller companies like Winzip, Screensavers, Nero even, etc... Whether or not you think it's ok to steal, is irrelevant. It isn't, period. The reason it's socially "acceptable", is only because so many people do it (most people), because people don't/can't afford it and the fact it's so easy follows onto that. I'm the first one to admit it, I've always used pirated software in years of past, but moral, decent people learn from their mistakes.


Oh that's right. By pirating MS software, we're really destroying the profits of that small, hard working company Microsoft. They'll never take off and grow. That poor Gatesy

For those that honestly think it's ok to steal software (not you specifically DM), why do you think that? I mean what are the actual reasons?
* Because you don't want to spend the money?
* Because you don't like certain companies?
* Because everyone does it?
* Because you think you shouldn't have to pay for something you can get free?
Do you honestly think you can justify that because of any of those reasons above, or any other like them?

I'm not saying people who pirate software are shitty scum, far from it. People who can't afford things that they really need (lets face it, PC's are essential nowadays), do whatever they have to, to get them. That's why there's so much crime in South Africa, people need to eat. It's the people who have fooled themselves into thinking it's ok that I'm worried about. At least admit that your a software thief.

[The_Dover]

I'd call the wankers that charge exorbitant prices for their software the thieves.

Windows is not worth however many hundred bucks as an OS. I use it solely because most of the other software I want to use runs on it.

I'd pay fifty bucks for it. I don't pirate PS2 games, I don't really play PC games.

I'll have a clear conscience once I get openSUSE installed tho.

[rwh]

Seriously now, maybe if they weren't such rip-off merchants who peddle garbage software, people might be inclined to pay for it. The MS pricing scheme is a crock of shit, and as a completely irresponsible IT guy, I actively encourage people to show their distrust and pirate away! Power to the people!

If you continue to use this 'garbage software', though, you're still accepting and contibuting to a society in which anything that isn't Microsoft-compatible isn't compatible. It's much harder for anyone else to compete.

The more different software people use, the more different software will be available, and the more they'll have to rely on actual open standards to interoperate, making it harder for any one publisher to lock up the market.

Richard

[sAsLEX]

I got the latest release of ubuntu linux shipped from france and I paid not one cent!

Thats where the secret lies open source freeness

[The_Dover]

I got the latest release of ubuntu linux shipped from france and I paid not one cent!

Thats where the secret lies open source freeness

I wont entertain anything french on my PC.

[Mental Trousers]

For those that honestly think it's ok to steal software (not you specifically DM), why do you think that? I mean what are the actual reasons?

Paying for Microsoft software is saying that it's ok to put out substandard products, that innovation is a bad thing and that it is ok to have a market place that is so skewed by the mere fact that Microsoft exists (it's like a giant black hole in the middle of a galaxy - everything gravitates towards it whether it wants to or not) that nothing else is able to establish the tiniest of footholds. Competition is good so stop feeding the monster and look at alternatives.

I fully support paying for software btw. Just not Microsofts.

[Mental Trousers]

I wont entertain anything french on my PC.

I'll entertain most things in French cut panties on my pc .... or lap ....

[dawnrazor]

I don't use any PC software - I use MAC software instead

[StoneChucker]

Paying for Microsoft software is saying that it's ok to put out substandard products, that innovation is a bad thing and that it is ok to have a market place that is so skewed by the mere fact that Microsoft exists (it's like a giant black hole in the middle of a galaxy - everything gravitates towards it whether it wants to or not) that nothing else is able to establish the tiniest of footholds. Competition is good so stop feeding the monster and look at alternatives.

I fully support paying for software btw. Just not Microsofts.

You hypocrite!!! I take it because you are defending the right to steal software, that you are using stolen software? I can't explain what you are doing any better than this:

hyp‧o‧crite  /ˈhɪpəkrɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hip-uh-krit] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs

HEY! - All you Microsoft haters & Pirates:
Yes Microsoft is a monopoly, and yes they release substandard software. But, if you detest it so much and think it's ok to steal it for those reasons, then you are a raging hypocrite! Don't use the fucken software if it's so bloody shit... Don't justify (to yourself) that it's ok to steal, and then use the bloody software you are bitching about? It's so shit? It's a monopoly? It's expensive? Fine, use open source software or less pouplar software, but for heaven's sake have some morals and ethics, don't bloody steal the software you are slagging off and then use it saying how shit it is and that's why it's ok to steal?

Can anybody else see the hypocrisy? Come on, that fact that everyone is continually justifying it is even sadder. All I'm asking is, if you are stealing software, you are both stealing AND saying you need to use the software. However much you tell yourself it's ok, companies are too rich, it's too expensive, etc... it doesn't make it right. Dumb arses! (I'm not even saying don't do it, or like the vendors, just admit the facts)

NB: Holy topic dodging batman! I just realised something, Microsoft is ONE company (all be it a super large, fat-cat monopoly) - I'm referring more specifically to the rest of PC software. If I had to pick one company out of two who it was worse to steal from, Microsoft would NOT be that one, regardless of who the other one was, so you can see that I don't like Microsoft that much either. However, when it works properly, Windows is a rather useful application, which one has to pay for - Nothing is free in life, unless you steal it

[Mental Trousers]

...some stuff ....

Nothing is free in life, unless you steal it

I haven't stolen it. But I haven't paid for it either. Helps having worked in computers. You get *free* shit all the time. Somebody else paid for it. Which is fine by me.

[Zed]

You hypocrite!!! I take it because you are defending the right to steal software, that you are using stolen software? I can't explain what you are doing any better than this:

HEY! - All you Microsoft haters & Pirates:
Yes Microsoft is a monopoly, and yes they release substandard software. But, if you detest it so much and think it's ok to steal it for those reasons, then you are a raging hypocrite! Don't use the fucken software if it's so bloody shit... Don't justify (to yourself) that it's ok to steal, and then use the bloody software you are bitching about? It's so shit? It's a monopoly? It's expensive? Fine, use open source software or less pouplar software, but for heaven's sake have some morals and ethics, don't bloody steal the software you are slagging off and then use it saying how shit it is and that's why it's ok to steal?

Can anybody else see the hypocrisy? Come on, that fact that everyone is continually justifying it is even sadder. All I'm asking is, if you are stealing software, you are both stealing AND saying you need to use the software. However much you tell yourself it's ok, companies are too rich, it's too expensive, etc... it doesn't make it right. Dumb arses! (I'm not even saying don't do it, or like the vendors, just admit the facts)...Preach it! :Punk:

I take it this is one of your pet hate subjects Dave!

[StoneChucker]

Preach it! :Punk:

I take it this is one of your pet hate subjects Dave!

Ha ha, nope - it's just that after the responses some people put to the poll I posted, I had no choice but to point out the blatant, idiotic hypocritical nature of their justifications...

[Mental Trousers]

One thing I'd like to know is do those that blindly pay for software have any mp3's on their machines?? Last I heard New Zealand legislation didn't cover making back up copies of cd's. That'd mean the majority of mp3's are in breach of copyrite unless 100% legal mp3's are the only thing downloaded.

[Flyingpony]

I've got a non-internet connected PC running Windows XP Pro and have an official CD-Key generated by the Student representative at University.

Unfortunately, this install stopped working after 30 days complaining about not being activated or something,,, but I already gave it a Microsoft generated CD-Key so why is it still bugging me about it?

Maybe the CD-Key was faulty and I should go back and get a new one?

Anybody knows how to fix this?

[kickingzebra]

All I can say is Go opensource!!

why would you flog office, when open office is free, easily available, and every bit as useful for the average user?

Likewise Ubuntu, does damn near everything windows does, and a lot of things windows doesn't, but it's free!

Winzip? easy I use Justzipit. Damn site faster, and no bullocks interface that is useless.

I have a computer at home running all MS product, but it is all paid for. Came with computer, through I relative who is a distributor. Cost saving for sure, but I wouldn't steal it!

You just have to be prepared for the work around.

photoshop? I use GIMP, Even if I had photoshop I would probably still use gimp.

Open source is the way forward, but I still struggle to understand how canonical, the parent company that releases ubuntu (including free shipping if you want a CD) actually makes any money.

Good on them none the less. They must have identified a market.

As for Bill Gates, The guy is as big a philanthropist as damn near every other country in the world. His house is less than a 5 million dollar affair, and his life is chronically boring. Leading a market matters more to him than profits, but as in any business, if there is no profit, there is no business. Maybe they charge so much because of the pirates? how else are you going to make up the dollars and cents?

[phaedrus]

I've got a non-internet connected PC running Windows XP Pro and have an official CD-Key generated by the Student representative at University.

Unfortunately, this install stopped working after 30 days complaining about not being activated or something,,, but I already gave it a Microsoft generated CD-Key so why is it still bugging me about it?

Maybe the CD-Key was faulty and I should go back and get a new one?

Anybody knows how to fix this?

Sorry, but nothing is faulty, this is just how windows works. Essentially the computer doesn't believe that you are legally using windows, it wants to phone home to check if your cd key is in use elsewhere, there is a way to do it over the phone but i don't know how. If you install the WGA patch (last I heard it was beta software pushed out as a critical update - and microsoft don't support it) it will do this check every week.

[StoneChucker]

All I can say is Go opensource!!

why would you flog office, when open office is free, easily available, and every bit as useful for the average user?

Likewise Ubuntu, does damn near everything windows does, and a lot of things windows doesn't, but it's free!

Winzip? easy I use Justzipit. Damn site faster, and no bullocks interface that is useless.

I have a computer at home running all MS product, but it is all paid for. Came with computer, through I relative who is a distributor. Cost saving for sure, but I wouldn't steal it!

You just have to be prepared for the work around.

photoshop? I use GIMP, Even if I had photoshop I would probably still use gimp.

Open source is the way forward, but I still struggle to understand how canonical, the parent company that releases ubuntu (including free shipping if you want a CD) actually makes any money.

Good on them none the less. They must have identified a market.

As for Bill Gates, The guy is as big a philanthropist as damn near every other country in the world. His house is less than a 5 million dollar affair, and his life is chronically boring. Leading a market matters more to him than profits, but as in any business, if there is no profit, there is no business. Maybe they charge so much because of the pirates? how else are you going to make up the dollars and cents?

Firstly, I was going to point out that fact that Bill Gates is amazingly big into charity work and not that much into living it up big time, but I didn't think anyone would care - So good to see someone else has an open mind.

Now, how do I get this next point across??? Everyone keeps going on and on about open source software, Ubuntu, Justzipit, GIMP, etc... You are missing the point. I'm not saying use paid software only, and don't steal it either. I actually agree with using open source, it will slowly break apart monopoly businesses.

I'm talking about the people who choose to use paid software but also choose not to pay for it. Those same hypocrites justify their reasons with all the excuses listed previously, even fooling themselves that it's ok. They fucking bitch and whine about monopolys, bugs, cost, etc.., but they still use the gdamn software, pirating every single copy.

If you like open source software, good, so do I in theory, so then use the free software - don't use paid stuff you steal. Can noone see the fucking point? Use the open source - good. I am pointing to those who say that (and use most of it), but then run stolen copies of that same software they bitch about.

Do I need to paint a picture? Anyone who still misses the point, you'll never get it so forget about it - carry on in your delusional dream world. The point I'm making is irrefutable - There is no discussion. It is right and wrong. If you justify theft or don't believe you're doing it, you are a certain type of person who just cannot understand the essential roots of right and wrong. Back to my initial point, the only truth I ask, is to acknowledge that you're doing it. I don't have any real-world problem with people using stolen software, as long as they understand it is stolen and that they don't try and insert their fuzzy logic to justify it to make themselves feel better - Admit it, or don't justify it making yourself look like a moron.

[The_Dover]

Firstly, I was going to point out that fact that Bill Gates is amazingly big into charity work and not that much into living it up big time, but I didn't think anyone would care - So good to see someone else has an open mind.

Now, how do I get this next point across??? Everyone keeps going on and on about open source software, Ubuntu, Justzipit, GIMP, etc... You are missing the point. I'm not saying use paid software only, and don't steal it either. I actually agree with using open source, it will slowly break apart monopoly businesses.

I'm talking about the people who choose to use paid software but also choose not to pay for it. Those same hypocrites justify their reasons with all the excuses listed previously, even fooling themselves that it's ok. They fucking bitch and whine about monopolys, bugs, cost, etc.., but they still use the gdamn software, pirating every single copy.

If you like open source software, good, so do I in theory, so then use the free software - don't use paid stuff you steal. Can noone see the fucking point? Use the open source - good. I am pointing to those who say that (and use most of it), but then run stolen copies of that same software they bitch about.

Do I need to paint a picture? Anyone who still misses the point, you'll never get it so forget about it - carry on in your delusional dream world. The point I'm making is irrefutable - There is no discussion. It is right and wrong. If you justify theft or don't believe you're doing it, you are a certain type of person who just cannot understand the essential roots of right and wrong. Back to my initial point, the only truth I ask, is to acknowledge that you're doing it. I don't have any real-world problem with people using stolen software, as long as they understand it is stolen and that they don't try and insert their fuzzy logic to justify it to make themselves feel better - Admit it, or don't justify it making yourself look like a moron.


The main flaw in your argument is that you assume that everyone understands what opensource software is, where to get it, how to configure it etc...

Software prices aren't high because of piracy, every piece of software I have ever bought (except old Codemasters games!) has been overpriced. Why do you think succesful software companies make a fuckin packet? Where is the incentive to pirate shit and break the law if it is affordable?

Opensource is great, if you have the knowledge and understanding to use it.

[kickingzebra]

My point to that, is there is no need to pirate software... If you steal because you need to, maybe excusable, but if people hate redmond with such a passion, there is a whole world of alternatives!
Are they actually trying to hurt microsoft by using pirated copies? Cause all that will really do is increase the strength of the brand.

If you hate the disbutable fact that microsoft are operating a daylight robbery business, easy solution that doesn't hurt any ethics or morals.

Now all we need is open source telecommunications, and viable market opposition to telecom.


Edit: The switch to ubuntu, as far as open source goes was as close to seamless as they come, likewise GIMP and openoffice, they use very similiar GUIs, and the help files are actually helpful! It is very easy, like driving a different car, same principle, slightly different execution... And it hurts the money grabbers more!

[StoneChucker]

The main flaw in your argument is that you assume that everyone understands what opensource software is, where to get it, how to configure it etc...

Software prices aren't high because of piracy, every piece of software I have ever bought (except old Codemasters games!) has been overpriced. Why do you think succesful software companies make a fuckin packet? Where is the incentive to pirate shit and break the law if it is affordable?

Opensource is great, if you have the knowledge and understanding to use it.

First, lots of things are over priced, that doesn't mean it's ok to steal them. Can afford that HSV? Do you know how much they make them for?!! It's ok, steal one if you can't afford it.


Seriously though, I'm interested in what you mean about understanding open source software to be able to use it? (No, I'm not being sarcastic, it's a serious question). I've never used open-source, and to be honest don't know / understand anything about it other than downloading it and installing it to use. That's probably because I've never thought about it though.

[StoneChucker]

My point to that, is there is no need to pirate software... If you steal because you need to, maybe excusable, but if people hate redmond with such a passion, there is a whole world of alternatives!
Are they actually trying to hurt microsoft by using pirated copies? Cause all that will really do is increase the strength of the brand.

If you hate the disbutable fact that microsoft are operating a daylight robbery business, easy solution that doesn't hurt any ethics or morals.

Now all we need is open source telecommunications, and viable market opposition to telecom.


Edit: The switch to ubuntu, as far as open source goes was as close to seamless as they come, likewise GIMP and openoffice, they use very similiar GUIs, and the help files are actually helpful! It is very easy, like driving a different car, same principle, slightly different execution... And it hurts the money grabbers more!

I'm not sure if uou are talking to me, but we are totally on the same page. That's partly my point!:done:

[The_Dover]

First, lots of things are over priced, that doesn't mean it's ok to steal them. Can afford that HSV? Do you know how much they make them for?!! It's ok, steal one if you can't afford it.


Seriously though, I'm interested in what you mean about understanding open source software to be able to use it? (No, I'm not being sarcastic, it's a serious question). I've never used open-source, and to be honest don't know / understand anything about it other than downloading it and installing it to use. That's probably because I've never thought about it though.

Sure an HSV is expensive, but is it the only well known and easily available option out there? Crap comparison mate.

We're sitting here as fairly knowledgable and competent users of PC's, hell a lot of the geeks on here do that sort of shit for a living, but how many "normal" people would have a clue where to start installing an alternative operating system to Microshafts offering? Hell, it's only recently that Linux has become a viable alternative and even then, as someone who enjoys fucking around with computers, I'm not sure it's going to be a single OS going on my PC. It's not all pointy clicky "ooh, that worked" and that is what most people want and need.

If you had the option to "steal" or "borrow", whatever you want to call it, a decent car that worked most of the time and got you from A to B with no repercussions or get a free POS that you needed to do roadside repairs on regularly and even put back together before using it then which would you choose? Bearing in mind you have never so much as held a spanner in your life and don't know the difference between Mobil 1 and cooking oil?

See my point yet?

[Indiana_Jones]

I have one or two 'discounted' games, but otherwise it's all legit.

-Indy

[kickingzebra]

No, not talking about you specifically, the you is generic to people taking that standpoint.

I can understand software piracy to a point, but I had to look at my ethics, and what I want to teach my kids, and I don't want them to grow up thinking the world owes them something, however that is the attitude that software piracy encourages.

How on earth can Bill Gates, who has never met any of us, nor had any personal dealings with us, have wronged us so badly that he owes us?

[The_Dover]

Who said he owes us?

But what do Telecom or any other utility supplier owe us? Would you be happy paying $350 a month line rental to Telecom just because there is no other option?

Or should poor peoples kids not have access to computer facilities at home because their folks can't afford an extra $300 bucks for the OS and don't know how to configure an alternative?

If you believe that MS are anything more than a bunch of very clever rip off merchants then you're deluded.

[sAsLEX]

Ubuntu linux involves you putting in a cd and following the designed for "americans" prompts

ie its piss easy these days!

I did have older versions of linux and they were rather involved to install but not the new ones.

[sAsLEX]

I don't want them to grow up thinking the world owes them something

dont let befriend some maoris then!

[The_Dover]

I've ordered the CD today and will give it a bash.

I loved running Suse 9.1 on my machine but when I fucked something up, it was fucked up and trying to get 3d acceleration to work was just too much like hard yakka. I spent days on it.

Not to mention when I was using a USB speedtouch modem and needed to run a script that took 10 mins everytime I connected.

There have always been other options and I pray to god that this time ubuntu lives up to expectations.

[sAsLEX]

for the inherently lazy https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

[Drunken Monkey]

...From the poll (which is relatively indicative of general society, if not slightly more towards the piracy side), 79.8% of people think it's ok to steal stuff they don't want to pay for (or can't).... At least be ashamed, or admit it's wrong..

Ok, it's wrong. But it doesn't stop me.


... Just because a company is super successful, doesn't automatically make it ok to steal their products...

No, but if a company that is super successful keeps whingeing that piracy is effecting it's bottom line, they can get bent. It's just as bad in the music industry, but we've already had that thread - the short answer is I have no sympathy for whiners who rake in some of the largest net profits of any companies world wide.


...It's especially relevant with regards to smaller companies like Winzip,

DEFINATELY pirate winzip. PKWARE, the code/algorithm for .zip archives is freeware. When paying for winzip, you're only paying some schmuck who wrote a crappy front end in visual basic. WTF, XP and most Linux OSs can archive and unarchive anyway, you don't need winzip.


... Nero even, etc...

Good software I pay for. I still need access to pirate softwate though, because I'm a firm beleiver in try before you buy. You wouldn't buy your HSV without test driving it now, would you? (BTW a car is a shitty example; it's expensive, even sometimes a little overpriced, but not heinously overpriced. Most manufacturers couldn't turn a decent profit on new car sales alone)


...For those that honestly think it's ok to steal software (not you specifically DM), why do you think that? I mean what are the actual reasons?
* Because you don't want to spend the money?
* Because you don't like certain companies?
* Because everyone does it?
* Because you think you shouldn't have to pay for something you can get free?


...Do you honestly think you can justify that because of any of those reasons above, or any other like them?

Yes. I sleep well at night, even with those caveats.


...I'm not saying people who pirate software are shitty scum, far from it. People who can't afford things that they really need (lets face it, PC's are essential nowadays), do whatever they have to, to get them...

Why not? If people nick other people's private items, e.g. cars, home theatre systems, motorcycles, I'd label them as shitty scum. If you beleive software pirates are no better, you've just set your own double standard. Personally I do it as a protest, and even now, technically, although some of the actual versions of MS product I've installed are copies, I could just as easily whack in one of my technet ones - it's just more convenient and practical to use other versions.


...At least admit that your a software thief.

I think, therefore I am. No, I think a few of us have made our point. We really only pirate MS software. It's not strictly true, but I do have a messy pile of genuine software boxes in the corner of my office for some reason.

I thought software piracy was still a diminishing trade (based purely on unfounded personal opinion, please correct me if I'm wrong). It seems to be more rife with old skool users, it was pretty normal to copy EVERYTHING back in the day, irrespective of price.

I hope that gives you further insight. I think the_dover has said anything else I needed to say.

[Drunken Monkey]

I lied, I had one more thing:


...Don't use the fucken software if it's so bloody shit... Don't justify (to yourself) that it's ok to steal, and then use the bloody software you are bitching about? ...

Get "fucken" real (excuse my french, but you don't need to get carried away). Commercial users don't have a real choice. You can't just decide one day "oh I don't like Windows", click 'uninstall', walk down the road to the corner dairy, pickup a freeware Linux, walk back to the office, click 'install', then be back on your way to where you left off 20 minutes later. Computers don't work like that.

MS really do have a lot of businesses by the proverbial balls. It takes a lot of investment to move to alternatives, even if the software is 'free', there are significant costs in retraining (you're kidding yourself if you think most end users can cope with a change to open source equivalents without any training), sometimes hardware changes (compatibility problems are still ever present) and mostly, TIME. IT Expertise is expensive. It takes a lot of time to fix the niggles. Sure, some propellerhead can sort out all his USB and tape drive issues on his PC in 40 minutes, but put him in front of 40 blade servers and a 3000 user site with 4 branches on a WAN and he'll be in over his head.


PS - KickingZebra has listed some good alternatives there. As for 'seamless' transition, unfortunately only to at least semi-technical savvy people. There are a lot of users out there who can't even cope with the slight differences between Office 2000, XP and 2003, I shit you not. Let alone OS differences...

[Ixion]

...
DEFINATELY pirate winzip. PKWARE, the code/algorithm for .zip archives is freeware. When paying for winzip, you're only paying some schmuck who wrote a crappy front end in visual basic. WTF, XP and most Linux OSs can archive and unarchive anyway, you don't need winzip.

...


This is one reason why I have few moral compunctions about "piracy". The rabid way in which so many of the commercial software houses grab hold of something that is in the public domain, make a few trivial changes to it and then try to claim that the whole thing is propriatory intellectual property. Like Winzip, whiuch as you say is just a front end .

The most blatent practioners of such software hijacking ? You guessed it. Microsoft. And I will always applaud anyone shafting Microsoft after the way the took the TCP/IP stack and BIND code from Berkley, plugged it into Windows AND THEN TRIED TO CLAIM THAT THEY OWNED DNS and TCP/IP.

Theiving bastiges, if everybody on the whole planet ripped them off they'd only be getting a bit of their own treatment back at them.

But there are some software houses I would never pirate, and would report anyone who did. Borland used to be a good example, they trusted their user base, and played fair. So I've always played fair by them. Shareware ditto. If the "shareware" version is crippled so that it's practically useless, I'll crack it without a qualm. If the shareware version is decent, and the product useful, I'll pay for it.

[Lias]

I own maybe 0.1% of the software I've used.

If a product is such that I cannot use it without paying (IE online subscription based games, ala Everquest, Eve Online etc) I will pay for it.

If I extensively use a piece of software be it game or application, and its pricing is reasonable I will buy it eventually.

I never ever buy software without using it first, There is alot of utter shit software floating around and I'm not shelling out my hard earned bucks for apps that are crap, or games that only hold my attention for a few weeks.

I'm also morally opposed to supporting any company which outsources its work to the 3rd world, which drastically reduces the number of companies I will pay for software.

[StoneChucker]

I cannot believe some of the last dozen or so posts.:gob: Can you read them again and be proud of what you've written? This a clear-cut case of a certain element of NZ mentality, that brings down the rest of NZ, or even humanity as a whole:mellow: Just one thing, I never intended to refer to any one person here, I'm being general.

Ok, my HSV example was shit - I even agree there. The basic point of stealing something just because you can't/won't have it is the same... I bet you Joe Crook up in XYZ town steals HSV's because he thinks the world owe's him something, and because as he sees it as if the system has shafted him.

You are throwing facts at me that are irrelevant! (You does not mean anyone in specific, not Dover, not DM, not anyone, but everyone in general!). I agree with you (how many times must I say it?) that MS are a monopoly, that they shaft their end users, that they try and steal technology or theories and copyright it as their own and that they have most of the business world by the balls with regard to their options for platforms / software. I also don't like paying heaps of money for something that I could get free (if I had to make my life harder by trying to be trendy and rebellious by preaching alternative free solutions). If those solutions work so well, and do the job you require then that's great. It's just that I find it terribly hypocritical for the protesters of MS to still use the software they are protesting about, and think that stealing it is ok, and that it's another avenue for their protest.

Where does anyone get the idea that it's up to them to break the law, that it's ok to steal the software as a protest but then use it because they actually need / depend on it. Wouldn't a better protest be to stop using MS operating systems all together? I know that is not really a solution for large businesses because of the reasons you mentioned, but the funny thing is that businesses (mostly) pay for the software, partly because it's the law and partly because they know they need to use it for the successful operation of their business - they have ethics. So it's a little ironic that people like you (again, general) think it's up to them to tell MS by protest, how the businesses and public feel. By the way, to add to what I said earlier - I don't give a shit if MS loose profits, if they loose market share and even if they go bankrupt, MS was a specific company that someone else brought up. It has started to look like I'm saying "don't steal from MS, it's wrong"?? I'm NOT, if I was going to pirate something, it would be from them, for all the reasons you've all mentioned previously. However, even though a product is over priced, manufactured by an unethical company and often substandard, it's still a product that is for sale, and is being used in part because of it's superior features - Someone already said it - They wouldn't run open source alone. So, you want/need something that is for sale, but convince yourself it's ok to steal it for whatever reasons.

Lets forget MS, from the start, I was referring to pirated software in general. Whatever people use, whether it be a GUI for a open-source program or a completely separate copyrighted program, they are using it because they want/need it, and no amount of righeteous justification will ever make it ok.

ONE person got the point of what I started with, that being to at least admit that your lack of ethics regarding software piracy is not normal or acceptable, it is however a way of life now. I'm not slandering people who pirate software (that is not a double standard, it is an acceptance of modern society - I'd rather slightly contradict myself than be a dishonest hypocrite), just pointing out the facts. As I mentioned (and someone posted the same concept very recently on this thread), I (in past years) pirated everything on my computer, all the time. As mentioned, going back a few years, it was the normal thing to do, and especially being young with little money meant it was the only option. That ties in with what I'm saying, people do whatever they need to to provide what they need for themselves, or for others. To the person who mentioned a poor parent (or whatever) who couldn't afford $300 for an OS for their kids, read the last few lines, I agree with you:yes: I would (and used to) do just that, but I always knew what I was doing was wrong, and wished I didn't have to.

Hey I have a better example for the example connoisseurs amoung us:shutup:
I live in an area where there is only one video shop. Because of that, they charge an extra few dollars for their movies. 15 or 20 minutes drive away I can get cheaper movies, but it's impractical to drive that far for a movie when one is available locally. Is it ok to steal from the video shop just because they are taking advantage of us using their unethical business practises? Or should I rather say bugger, I can't afford to hire movies as the illegal option isn't an option, for me anyway. (Oh, that is not relevant to me, I hire from the local video shop all the time and am happy to pay the price for the service/product I receive)

Life sucks, things are expensive and businesses try and rip you off. Taking short cuts, while sometime necessary, should at least register as being wrong in your thoughts and actions (my point). I get a little worried when 80% of society make their own rules, and stay morally content by using the easiest reasons available to justify it for themselves and others.

So no, I don't see your point, but I am amazed that people can't even admit that they see mine. It's not even like I'm saying stop doing it... I guess it's like AA - you can't start until you admit you are doing it.

[Drunken Monkey]

...This a clear-cut case of a certain element of NZ mentality,...

Right, because "software piracy" was invented by New Zealanders, for New Zealanders. In fact, the "Maarees" have exclusivity on the term and act of "software piracy". Software piracy can not, by definition, ever be carried out by non-New Zealanders...

Excuse my blatant and rather witless sarcasm but, your other points aside, that comment you made was complete and utter rubbish.


...Where does anyone get the idea that it's up to them to break the law, that it's ok to steal the software as a protest but then use it because they actually need / depend on it...

You know, that is a very good question. I think it's just sort of happened that way because of the medium (of digital data). In saying that, I must point out that so far the legal attempts at tidying up MS' dirty business practice have been, well, weak at the best of times. (yeah I know you're talking about all software developers, not just MS)


...Hey I have a better example for the example connoisseurs amoung us...

Erm, no. You still have practical alternatives, including pay-per-view, fatso.co.nz, things like that. Plus you'd be ripping off a small, probably owner operated franchise running low margins. It's a different kettle of fish, mate. Nice try though.


... should at least register as being wrong in your thoughts and actions (my point)...

Legally or morally/ethicially. Both? And from who's view? Questions to which sometimes there is also no clear cut right or wrong! I don't think anyone beleives they aren't breaking the law, but the law, as they say, is sometimes an ass.

[phaedrus]

This is a bit of a goat trap for me. The term is copyright infringement, not theft or piracy. It's still wrong but is covered by different laws.

Piracy is an emotive term used to sway the opinion of the masses and is used for it's instant negitave connotation.

Theft has been misappropriated using the term "intellectual property", as if you could be deprived of an idea by telling someone else.

[kickingzebra]

Ok, I am here is an example that does fit, some of the names have been changed to protect the privacy of the individuals. In fact the whole story is simply an analogy, but that is perhaps the best way to depersonalise the situation, and then apply the ethics.

Einstein is a very smart man (hence the name). He doesn't sleep much, and stays up weeknights trying to think of ways to make the world a better place.
No one can understand half the sentiments that come out of his mouth, but he has this one equation that he has been working on that would change the way man understands the physical realm.

The Big Bad Wolf is a trust fund kiddy, with money coming out his ears, and a dog eat dog view to life and business. He stays up weeknights too, trying to figure out how to get better returns on investment. Ethics don't matter to the Wolf, only the bottom line.

Einstein, in a flash of brilliance, comes up with this equation, that really could open the door to a lot of changes in the way humanity does things, and huge efficiency increases. He terms it E=MC2, and in the haze of acadamia, thinks about protecting his intellectual property, and even calls the lawyer, but forgets to go to the appointment.

The Big Bad Wolf, on one of his many business trips, stumbles across Einstein, who as a genius, but still a simple minded academic, mentions this equation that could change everything. The Wolf sees the equation, and with a bit of jiggery pokery, when he gets back to corporate HQ reterms it to W=PS(4/2) and calls in the Intellectual Property lawyers, applies for his patent, and begins making and selling a product that will make use of said equation.

Now in the world of the consumer, The Big Bad Wolf has quite a name as a slash and burn operator. He starts selling this product, and it really does begin to revolutionise the world.

A large percentile of the world, though they have qualms about the BBWs business ethics, still bemoaningly purchase the product, and use it to great advantage. However the remaining minority, knowing that the BBW is such an operator, fart in his general direction, and use the product, but not paying for it.


Story over, the question is, who is the real loser here?
Honest Consumer A?
Consumer B?
The Big Bad Wolf?

Option D, none of the above. The losers are:
Einstein
The rest of the world

Einsteins intention, in this story is the betterment of society, so it is likely his eventual product would have been much more easily available, and probably more useful in general.

Unfortunately, because people colluded with BBW, einstein was never able to afford to A; begin Intellectual property recovery, B; streamline the product and make it more useful, and C; distribute it.

The actions of the few and all that.

Now if any of us were in einsteins shoes in this story, we would be rightly up in arms!
But if we had been part of consumer group B, then we would have given away the ethical and moral high ground, and would have no right to argue if someone were to take something of ours, because it suited them better.

If it was your business idea, stolen and exploited at a more profitable rate than you could have yourself, you would be rightly annoyed.

I think it was Live that said
"Precious Declaration says, whats your is mine, and mine you leave alone, now"

The double standard lives, and that, good sirs, is hypocrisy to the Nth degree.

[Drunken Monkey]

Ok, I am here is an example that does fit, ....


I'm sorry, you've lost me.

If Gates is the Big Bad Wolf, Einstein must be the developer of the code that Gates stole and labelled BASIC for the Altair 8800? (Was it MITS? My memory fails me); and by pirating software, this hobbyist software guy who was screwed in 1975 is still being screwed by 'us' (the software pirates) and that 'everyone else' (what, people who don't use computers?) also suffers.

No, don't answer that. I'm just being facetious.

[kickingzebra]

Well, bearing that in mind, I won't be leaving my wallet on the table with greens visible.

You still haven't answered how loudly you would scream if somebody stole something off you.

[Ixion]

But that is one of the distinctive things about "software piracy" . Noone actually loses anything.

You have a CD. You copy it for me. Now you still have your original CD, and I have one too. Noone has actually lost anything. The original author says he "lost a sale". But that may, or may not , be true. It maybe that I don't think much of what is on the CD. For free (or the cost of a blank CD) it's worth having. But I wouldn't pay retail price for it. Or maybe I just can't afford it. But in future I may be able to. So a "pirated" copy now may in fact secure the original author an actual sale of the next release, that he would not otherwise have had. This is the whole basis of shareware. It is overly simplistic to assume that each "pirate" copy means one less sale.

[StoneChucker]

You have a CD. You copy it for me. Now you still have your original CD, and I have one too. Noone has actually lost anything. The original author says he "lost a sale". But that may, or may not , be true.
I say it is a lost sale, the person who has the pirated copy, has something they wanted but that they didn't have to pay for!. Forget about Microsoft guys, I never even meant that corporation. Think of games, expensive audio / graphic software, anything...

It maybe that I don't think much of what is on the CD. For free (or the cost of a blank CD) it's worth having. But I wouldn't pay retail price for it. Or maybe I just can't afford it. But in future I may be able to. So a "pirated" copy now may in fact secure the original author an actual sale of the next release, that he would not otherwise have had. This is the whole basis of shareware. It is overly simplistic to assume that each "pirate" copy means one less sale.
If you don't think much of the software, don't copy it - simple. A hell of a lot of software has a demo version, why not use that if available? I'll tell you why - because the pirate wants a fully functional version of a software title they don't want to (and never intend to) pay for. They do it because they can, and then act like it's their right, and that it's ok. No matter how much you tell yourself it is, it isn't.

People who make "demo" copies rarely say "hell I like this, I'll chuck my copy out and buy an original". They just want something for nothing. The New Zealand mentality I mentioned does not imply what DrunkMonk wrote. I meant there is a certain, well represented element of this country who honestly believe that taking whatever they want, from wherever they can is ok. I guess they learn from generations of old that if it's easily available, taking what they want is much easier than working for it.


Plus you'd be ripping off a small, probably owner operated franchise running low margins. It's a different kettle of fish, mate.
I guarantee you, people who think that they shouldn't have to play the game and pay for what they want don't look at who they are stealing from and say "No wait, this software vendor is small and operates fairly, I'll rather try and actually pay for something for once".

Every arguement anyone on here writes either directly or through intentions references Microsoft as the vendor we're discussing. Forget about bloody Microsoft, and other shark-natured vendors. People who think they are above paying for goods steal from any & every vendor. It's just a little harder to justify to yourself stealing from honest companies.

Also, I wonder why software vendors are increasingly becoming similar to MS with regard to their business practices. With "clients" like you lot, one day every company will deserve to be ripped off.

Now, did ANYONE happen to catch that I'm not saying don't copy stuff? Hell, I sometimes speed but I at least know that it's wrong.
I really think we have to agree that society has changed it's values so much that the point I tried to make will obviously never come to light. I hadn't realised that things had already changed, that's all. I mean nowadays, it's basically every man for himself (or herself...), it's not surprising most people carry that with them and their values.

I don't think any less of people who copy stuff, this whole time I was referring to those people's concept of it. I think this has been bashed about enough, I'm tired:zzzz:

[MrMelon]

I've got oem windows 2k/xp stickers on my laptop and my pc which means I have licenses to use both. Have you ever tried getting a replacement copy of the particular version and build of windows which you're licensed to use but have misplaced the disks? It's painful and I believe expensive. Fucked if I'm going to jump through hoops and pay again when I've got a burnt copy of xp which does the trick perfectly.

Microsoft seem to have a habit of buying innovative companies that make cool products, then destroying the product and bringing out their own overpriced, bloated versions which don't do the job nearly as well. Then they wonder why people just warez their shit half the time. Warez (illegitimate software) has been and will be around forever.

Don't get so worked up over it.

[StoneChucker]

He he he, my blood pressure is too labile to allow me the pleasure of getting worked up. I don't care enough about anything to burst a blood vessle (literally:shit: ):scooter:

Hey, like I said - I'm a 10 year + veteran "sailor" ;)

[rwh]

This is a bit of a goat trap for me. The term is copyright infringement, not theft or piracy. It's still wrong but is covered by different laws.


Hooray, I was wondering if anyone was going to mention this.

Calling it theft brings up all these totally bogus comparisons about HSVs - where the rightful owner of the stolen HSV doesn't have it any more. Copyright infringement doesn't do that.

The same is true of the video store example, if I'm reading it right - if you take the DVD home and don't return it, that's theft; the store hasn't got it any more. If you take it home, copy it and return it, that's copyright infringement; the store gets to rent it out again as usual, with the relatively minor exception of the person who copied it not wanting to rent it again, which they quite possibly wouldn't have anyway.

I don't support copyright infringement, but at the same time we shouldn't blow it up out of proportion by comparing it to far worse crimes.

Also, I do know people who download mp3s or whatever in breach of copyright - and they do from time to time then go and buy the CD because they like the music.

The other point is that copyright is an artificial concept, and I think only a couple of hundred years old or less. It's not a fundamental human right. If we didn't already have the tradition, would we still think it fair for someone to expect to get paid again and again for work they've only done once? How about when it isn't even the person who did the work, but a big company that paid them to do it?

I'm not advocating copyright infringement here; we should stick to the laws that have been put in place (or at least retained) by our more-or-less democratically elected government, but there's no reason we shouldnt challenge those laws from time to time.

My other reason for opposing copyright infringement applies mostly to Microsoft (sorry StoneChucker). Not only do I think it barely hurts them in terms of lost sales (and it certainly doesn't hurt them in terms of actual lost product), I think it actually helps them. As long as people are copying their software, they're not using something else. And if they're not using something else, they'll continue to have a near monopoly, making it harder for anyone to compete. The usual argument for buying MS Word, for example, is that 'we want to exchange documents with other people, and they all use Word' - it's a vicious circle. There are plenty of other formats to exchange data in, but as long as people assume that everyone has Word, they'll keep using it, and so everyone has to have Word ... Bugger.

My current challenge is to find myself a laptop that doesn't come preinstalled with Windows - they're pretty rare, especially here, but they do exist. I'm not going to illegally copy Windows for it; I don't want it at all, I'm putting Linux on it. And the last thing I want to do is give more money to Microsoft for a product I'm not using, that they can use to fight the product I do use ...

Hmm, that was a bit of a rant ... never mind.

Richard

[terbang]

Im all paid up on my machine. Its a big industry with dodgey copies of software everywhere. When I was in Jakarta I was in a mall (senayan mall) picking up bits for my computer and the shop next door, with full advertising, was fair humming and generating a lot of heat as they were furiously copying all sorts of stuff. They were burning it to discs, packaging it and selling it as fast as they could produce it. I had a browse around and there was all the good stuff at dirt cheap prices. I struck up a conversation with one of the girls working there and when I asked if what they were doing was legal, she cheerfully replied "NO" (tidak) and continued with her version of the way the world was, while steadily pirating more software.

[StoneChucker]

Hooray, I was wondering if anyone was going to mention this.

Calling it theft brings up all these totally bogus comparisons about HSVs - where the rightful owner of the stolen HSV doesn't have it any more. Copyright infringement doesn't do that.

The same is true of the video store example, if I'm reading it right - if you take the DVD home and don't return it, that's theft; the store hasn't got it any more. If you take it home, copy it and return it, that's copyright infringement; the store gets to rent it out again as usual, with the relatively minor exception of the person who copied it not wanting to rent it again, which they quite possibly wouldn't have anyway.

I don't support copyright infringement, but at the same time we shouldn't blow it up out of proportion by comparing it to far worse crimes.

Also, I do know people who download mp3s or whatever in breach of copyright - and they do from time to time then go and buy the CD because they like the music.

The other point is that copyright is an artificial concept, and I think only a couple of hundred years old or less. It's not a fundamental human right. If we didn't already have the tradition, would we still think it fair for someone to expect to get paid again and again for work they've only done once? How about when it isn't even the person who did the work, but a big company that paid them to do it?

I'm not advocating copyright infringement here; we should stick to the laws that have been put in place (or at least retained) by our more-or-less democratically elected government, but there's no reason we shouldnt challenge those laws from time to time.

My other reason for opposing copyright infringement applies mostly to Microsoft (sorry StoneChucker). Not only do I think it barely hurts them in terms of lost sales (and it certainly doesn't hurt them in terms of actual lost product), I think it actually helps them. As long as people are copying their software, they're not using something else. And if they're not using something else, they'll continue to have a near monopoly, making it harder for anyone to compete. The usual argument for buying MS Word, for example, is that 'we want to exchange documents with other people, and they all use Word' - it's a vicious circle. There are plenty of other formats to exchange data in, but as long as people assume that everyone has Word, they'll keep using it, and so everyone has to have Word ... Bugger.

My current challenge is to find myself a laptop that doesn't come preinstalled with Windows - they're pretty rare, especially here, but they do exist. I'm not going to illegally copy Windows for it; I don't want it at all, I'm putting Linux on it. And the last thing I want to do is give more money to Microsoft for a product I'm not using, that they can use to fight the product I do use ...

Hmm, that was a bit of a rant ... never mind.

Richard

Well done, that was very well written - I even partially agree with you :shit:
.
.
.
Holy crap, that horse is now flogged beyond recognition:bye:

[avgas]

If its worth the money - pay for it.
Simple rule for anything.
If i made my bike look like a ducati, act like a ducati etc i dont believe thats theft. That would be dedication.
Why cant these people who are against pirate stuff see that.
I dont like the "poor student" thing, but when you are one of these (like i was) - who the hell is going to fork out $$$$'s for the likes of MATLAB, SOLIDWORKS etc

[rwh]

...post advocating (sort of) copying ...

Thanks for the green, but I don't think I was advocating copying (of proprietary software) at all ... just suggesting that it's not as evil as actual theft - especially in terms of the harm it does to the vendor.

Oh - the other reason I don't like it is that it distorts the competition - comparing value for money between illegal Windows and legit Debian (my choice of Linux distro) isn't a fair comparison at all - even if Debian still wins :bleh:

Richard

[StoneChucker]

Thanks for the green, but I don't think I was advocating copying (of proprietary software) at all ... just suggesting that it's not as evil as actual theft - especially in terms of the harm it does to the vendor.

Oh - the other reason I don't like it is that it distorts the competition - comparing value for money between illegal Windows and legit Debian (my choice of Linux distro) isn't a fair comparison at all - even if Debian still wins :bleh:

Richard

I'm sure green repper knows what you meant:yes:

[The_Dover]

What about recording TV shows and movies?

Isn't that the same breach of copyright?

[kickingzebra]

I'm fairly sure that is covered under a slightly different law, but publicly showing blah blah blah would be being rude.

[Clockwork]

I'm fairly sure that is covered under a slightly different law, but publicly showing blah blah blah would be being rude.

Good point!

If you record the program and then fast forward through the ads on playback are you ripping off the TV Company or the advertiser, and should you give a stuff either way?

[kickingzebra]

I've never bought anything off TV...
I always go to the shop....

Doesn't affect me in the slightest, as I watch as much TV as the average homophobic man watchs male arse.

[Brian d marge]

Just reciently I have had to think about this whole copying thing ..

On the one hand, I agree with the view its not right , ( there was a lot of peopes time and effort put into making the software ..)

On the otherhand I cannot afford the asking price of some of the software ..AKA Autocad and Solidworks, which I need to be conversant with due to my industry

What happened was I had a bright idea of reinstalling my OS using my grandfathers disk. Then it was explained that if I was to Authenticiate it it would screw both systems up ....29 day to go

So I looked at Linux

( Now those who know realise that my attempts at either home improvements or pc work both end up in either a blue screen or Fire )

So I chose xubuntu ( debian distro), Now they work like this , ...its free but you can pay for support

now being a cheap basket ..I used the forum, ..took a while , but as I type I have a computer that is

A Faster, more stable
B Does everything windows and office did ( but with a smaller footprint )
C Can use windows .exe programs if I want

Downside, SOME windows exe files dont work to well with the emulator I am using , but its not a big deal so far

So while at the moment . not ALL of my software is legal, O am and will move towards the GLA or freeware and slowly replace the copied stuff

Finally my 2 cents worth on Mr gaytes .. The product is easy to use BUT its crap when I have to use other software, Also it prone to viruses.

Because I use non ms software, its unstable and crashes sometime and every few months you have to reinstall to get rid of all those loose files floating round that windows could find a home for ....

On top of that its expensive for what it is ... here in Japan its about 20 000 yen , though when I was in Hawaii it was very much cheaper ...I think I saw it for 60 us dollars ..which I remember thinking ..hey thats more like it ...


Stephen

Ps this linux Xubuntu , it s very eligant os , its small fast and not loaded with crap you dont need ...Very happy I changed ,.....

[Big Dave]

All my stuff is legit. But it's my business.
If i think about it I've been remiss on a shareware or two but all the OS, adobe and MS apps are properly licenced for the whole studio.
Just something I don't need to worry about.
Pay it and pass it on. Cost of business.

[Ixion]

Ps this linux Xubuntu , it s very eligant os , its small fast and not loaded with crap you dont need ...Very happy I changed ,...


Gotta say , Ubuntu is serious impressive.

My werk laptop crapped itself in a total fashion . Cos of the dictates of the idiots that are werks bosses bosses it is Windoze 2K

And it wouldn't boot. And recovery console said that the NTFS filesystem was mangled beyond recovery.

But it has some private stuff on it that I didn't want to lose. And other stuff that I'd added since my last backup.

So. I stuck a Ubuntu Live CD in the CD Drive. It booted from the CD. Asked me two questions. What language do I speak, and what part of the world am I in. I think anyone could answer those (pick from list). That was it. Total. Sit back and watch for about three minutes, and bingo, a running system.

And, then , mount the (supposed toasted) Windoze drive. And voila! Ubuntu can see ALL the stuff on the disk PERFECTLY. And I can read it, write to it, anything. Perfectly. So Unbuntu can handle a Windoze NTFS filesystem better than Windoze can! Go figure. Plug in network cable (didn't have to set anything up it figured it all out by itself). Plug spare laptop into network. Copy copy copy. Sorted.

Ubuntu is so simple that even a POLITICIAN could use it. And its totally and completely free. And you can copy it. They even say copying is encouraged on the CD sleeve!

[Brian d marge]

I have been running xubuntu as an experiment on the laptop , which is 650mhz and 190 ram , It took 20 min to install and a total of 2 hours from start to finish to install everything I wnted , Ime, streaming radio realplayer etc it has used including All the programs , ( 4 Gig ) so I have 15 gig left Windows took nearly 5 odd gig just for the os.

A couple of annoyances though , control of the fans , windows ran them all the time at high speed , xubuntu doesnt seem to switch em on, and ALL of my internet television is in caodecs that are not supported by Linux
The motorcross is WMV dmx or something and TV Gold is , AOL/nvs

Autocad has to run with an emulator , but there are linux alternatives ,,( just I am conversant with Acad and prefer it)

Stephen

[phaedrus]

A couple of annoyances though , control of the fans , windows ran them all the time at high speed , xubuntu doesnt seem to switch em on,

try running a 3d program like vegastrike (http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/) to make sure some stress is put on your cpu, if the fans don't crank up - then you can worry.



and ALL of my internet television is in caodecs that are not supported by Linux
The motorcross is WMV dmx or something and TV Gold is , AOL/nvs

If you are lucky automatix (http://getautomatix.com/wiki/index.php?title=Installation&Itemid=38#Installing_on_Ubuntu_6.06_Dapper_Drake) will fetch the codecs you need.

[Brian d marge]

I not even sure mineole clunker has fans, I think its still piston ported with fins !!!

I used BUMPS , which fetched all the codecs , just the WmV RMZ ( or something like that) streams are not working

I could use winamp under wine I suppose

Ill have a look tomorrow

Stephen

[kickingzebra]

One thing I couldn't get Ubuntu to do (I didn't try very hard) was run properly with a dial up connection!
Could get it to cennect etc, but it would hardly ever recognise that it was connected.
I only played with it for about 10 minutes, so hardly consequential.

[The_Dover]

I got Ubuntu installed finally and I've got a few spare discs in shiny packaging if anyone wants one.

You can sleep safely now Stonechucker knowing that there is one less thief in the world.

[Clockwork]

My son shares/swaps xbox games with his mates, would you consider that to be software theft?