Top speed for 125s?

[Hillbilly]

I'm thinking about a Cagiva Mito 125/525 SP next year in F5/Clubman. Rules state I have to start as C/D grade rider and will be restricted to "treaded street tyres". I'm really looking forward to it too.

The Cagiva's have a 110/70 17 front and a 150/60 17 rear. These tyres are H-rated radials with a max speed of 210kph. I doubt that the Mito 125 will reach that even with all the mods, but the 525 SP is a fully set up factory racer with all the technology from the C594, only smaller, so I've no idea what the top end will be.

Both bikes ship with Michelin Pilot Sports with the ZR rating from the factory. Bridgestone don't manufacture anything with that rating in the size the Cagiva's have.

[Deano]

I read that the Honda RS125 GP bikes (1991 ish) were good for 136mph.

That was a works Honda GP bike though.

[k14]

Mine got 198 at ruapuna a few weekends ago. And thats in no way setup to the optimal or had any $$$ spent on go fast parts. I would be pretty confident of 210 at puke with the right setup. Thats a 125gp though, and I very much doubt you'd be able to get a mito within 20kph of that.

[F5 Dave]

oh dear! You're toast.

A decent big-$ single of the 600+ size will fire out 70hp (about double of a std putzy XT600 or whatever). The std Mito (smaller than a sixth of the 660) mere 25hp.

Now if it was a Aprillia GP125 you'd be in with a shout, but a hot up kit on the Cagiva, let's be optomistic & say you'd hit 35hp which is way more than a 125MX bike.

Better to go find a decent late model Honda RS125 I would have thought. Will handle streets better too.

But then again if you just want to have fun no prob, but don't expect to be competetive.

[tomthepohm]

Rode a Mito in Italy, it was great fun. Good luck mate...

[Hillbilly]

I'd have both the Mito 125 and the 525SP. The 125 will be for track days/practice/club rounds and generally having a ball.

The 525SP will be GP spec ordered from the factory and built in Italy. I can have it built to exactly the specs I want by the Italians. These are the same designed and guys that built the C594 MotoGP 500. It's homologated to "Sports Production" whatever that means. You can check it out here:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=33360

http://www.cagiva.it/_vti_g6_ver.aspx?IdVer=96&rpstry=178_

[gav]

I'd have both the Mito 125 and the 525SP. The 125 will be for track days/practice/club rounds and generally having a ball.

The 525SP will be GP spec ordered from the factory and built in Italy. I can have it built to exactly the specs I want by the Italians. These are the same designed and guys that built the C594 MotoGP 500. It's homologated to "Sports Production" whatever that means. You can check it out here:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=33360

http://www.cagiva.it/_vti_g6_ver.aspx?IdVer=96&rpstry=178_

Huh? Its a tuned Cagiva Mito, certainly not a 125GP bike. Built by the same guys that built the C594? :shutup: Doubt it...which bit are you reading that in? All I see is this? GP spec? Cagiva dont even run a 125GP bike, and never have! :nono:
The legendary 125 Cagiva Mito is now ready to return to competition in a new version: The 525 SP. This competition machine has been homologated for the Sport Production category and is more powerful and efficient than the legendary Mito Racing 125 on which Valentino Rossi won his first National Sports Production Title in 1994. Now, just like then, Cagiva engineers have worked on the single-cylinder two-stroke engine of the Mito paying particular attention to heat dispersal issues, fuel and air supply, the exhaust system and rotating mass effects to produce more than 37 CV at the crankshaft. The forged aluminium wheels, upside-down Ø 40 mm Marzocchi forks and the adjustable rebound and damping shock absorber complete the technical profile of this little missile on wheels. The single-seater Mito 525 SP brings to mind the all-victorious Cagiva C 594 that will also be on display in a special area dedicated to the new 125.
The Sports Production class in Italy is for modded 125cc street bikes, similiar to our 150cc Street Stock class, hang on, I've already mentioned this in the other KB thread you posted. Have you even read it? 37 CV at the crankshaft, whatever a CV is, but doesnt sound like much to me. As per above any big bore KTM or similiar is going to stomp all over that.

[Hillbilly]

OK, if the Mito is so gutless, then why is it banned from the streets in North America and restricted to competition use only:

http://www.cagivausa.com/mito125/2001mito125.html

Here are the bikes allowed to race under the BEARS F5 rules in Aussie:

FORMULA 5 - CLUBMAN (C and D grade riders - treaded street tyres only)

SINGLE CYLINDER - APRILIA RS125, Pegaso, RXV/SXV 450; BIMOTA BB1; BMW F650; CAGIVA Mito 125, River 500, Canyon 600; GAS GAS; GILERA CX125, Saturn 500; HUSABERG 400-650; HUSQVARNA 400-610; KTM 400-640; MuZ Scorpion 660; RICCI; TM; TRICK; VOR; _NB - There are no development restrictions on single cylinder machinery._
TWIN CYLINDER - BMW R850; CAGIVA Alazzura 650; DUCATI Pantah (up to 705cc) - original steel frame, twin shocks, 40mm carbys (no flat-slides), original diameter wheels, 300mm discs (no USD forks or 4-spot calipers), 600SS, 600M (up to 705cc, no EFI models), 620i, 620 Sport; HARLEY DAVIDSON 883 (No Roaring Sporties); MOTO GUZZI V50, V55, Lario; MOTO MORINI 3.5, 5.0; TRIUMPH Bonneville, Speedmaster (new) etc;
TRIPLES - BMW K75; TRIUMPH Trident 750cc;

Why even include a Mito if it isn't competitive? What was that line again:
_NB - There are no development restrictions on single cylinder machinery._


BTW, 37CV = 39HP. And yes I did read the comment, and the 525 SP with all carbon fibre bodywork and $14,000 AUD pricetag can hardly be called "Bog Stock". I can order it GP spec as it will be specifically made to order. The rule stating "no development restrictions" allow me to order the bike as powerrful and light as they can make it. Otherwise thay need not even include either the Mito or Aprilia 125s in this class at all. How much would it cost to buy a second hand Italian street bike then bring it up to race spec?

Tell you what, find me some pictures of this bike actually on the track apart from the promotional ones that are from Cagiva. There isn't any hard data or competition results as it was just released this year.

[gav]

Dude, the reason the bike is banned is because its a 2 stroke, you'll also find that other two strokes like RG400/500, NS400R, RZ500, TZR125/250 etc will also be banned.
Show me a picture of a Cagiva 125 racing in GP's........
If the 525 is a brand new model, how are you going to race it in Bears/F5, as they only list the Mito 125.
Why even include a Mito if it isn't competitive? What was that line again:
_NB - There are no development restrictions on single cylinder machinery._

You tend to find when they list all bikes eligible, it doesnt mean they are all competitive. How many Gilera CX125's you seen racing or a Cagiva River 500?
You realise that the no restictions alse relates to the big four stroke singles? Also means you can modify them yourself. You'd be far better off to buy a S/H Mito and tune it yourself or at a race shop who knows there two strokes.

[ajturbo]

the guys and girls of CHCH will find out the real speed of my 125.. as i lap them.. it is good for 197km/h :scooter: but as i haven't tested it in top gear yet it should do more

[F5 Dave]

39hp at the crank will equal about 31 by the time it reaches the rear wheel. This is pretty good for a road based engine.
But there is still a world of difference between it & a GP race bike like an RS. Sadly they aren't allowed.

But looking at those rules unless the track is a go kart track, I -as an adamant 2-stroke fan- would be trying to hook up a KTM or a BMWF650 which tune up well in Singles racing overseas.

The list of other bikes is quite comical. V50 guzzi? Hah! That would be a laugh (or rather a cry). A Pantah or a modern 750 Trident would be quite a tool though. Actually thinking about it the Pantahs here were propped up by being able to run Meth in the old days.

The big question is what is currently doing well in the class?

[svs]

http://www.ozbearsracing.com/downloads/2006/06-NATIONAL-BEARS-F5.pdf

One Cagiva Mito at the back. Only did one round - 2nd to last.

[Hillbilly]

Here are copies of both the Club champinchips and the National Bridgestone series - up to the latest rounds.

[madkeenandy]

hmmmm I dont know much about the new Cagiva 125, but there was a mid 1990s one racing in chch and it struggled to keep up with anyone in the light wieght class, even aften they put an 125 gp carbie on it, in the end he sold it and bought a 450 husky...

39 horses sounds good though, although the Suzuki people tell me the RG 150s have 36.... it'll still be a sweet little bike to trash around :)

[Hillbilly]

I believe that the new Mito 125 has 29hp. The max you can get out of a modded street one is 34hp. To see the difference betwwen the bike (and the price) here are the 2006 Mito 125 and Mito 525 SP side by side. Note the Magnesium alloy rims on the 525 SP as well as ther whole back of the bike.

Can't tell by just looking at her, but I'd guess she'd be anywhere between 7kg - 10kg lighter than the 129kg stock Mito 125. The "dry weight" that the Italians quote include oil and coolant, just no fuel.

I've included the lone Mito 125 that raced at Eastern Creek BEARS F5 round 2.

[madkeenandy]

29 horsepower?! Or is that at the back wheel. If not dont buy it, it'll be so slow it wont be funny.

[Hillbilly]

Here's quote from the guys at Moto One in Victoria after they put a stock Mito on the Dyno and did some mods. The dyno charts are included:


Mito 125 With De-restriction Kit

Yes, the mighty Mito Smito. Well, maybe not. The Mito, as we get it now, is a 6 speed restricted model, not like the ones we were selling previously (when they came from the Ducati importer with 7 speeds). These ones get very asthmatic over 7,000 RPM, about 500 RPM after they come on (so to speak). So, as you can imagine, performance is a little less than scintillating.

Although they are quite nice to ride in the 5,000 to 8,000 RPM range, just not overly quick. To get the performance back, we fit the de-restriction kit. This involves a little cutting and welding as well as jets, an air inlet and a 13 tooth front sprocket, dropping from the 14 tooth that’s std. So it’s not just a “plate with a little hole” away.

There’s not too much else to it, so I’ll just show you the graphs – power first, then torque. Before is green, after is red. Pretty clear really, and good for a laugh. Running one of these on the dyno was like nothing else I’ve ever done. Not even the mighty KR1S. Restricted, it took for ever to reach 10,000 RPM, where I gave up, but then just didn’t want to slow down. I hadn’t considered the lack of engine braking before I got started. Very odd. The torque curves look much like you’d normally expect power curves too – typical two stroke.

A Mito without the top end is really not worth owning in my mind, but that’s up to you. Makes them much more fun, and it’s the reason you’d buy a 2 stroke.

[madkeenandy]

ok... might be fast then

[Hillbilly]

That's the stock street Mito too with headlights, numberplate brackets, indicators etc all attached. The 525 SP should be a fair bit quicker, with a higher top end.

I seriously considered the Arpilia RS 125, but just couldn't get into the gear shift on the right and brake on the left like the old British bikes.

[madkeenandy]

I seriously considered the Arpilia RS 125, but just couldn't get into the gear shift on the right and brake on the left like the old British bikes.

Do even the late model 125s have bake on left, etc? i didn't know that as i was keen on eventually getting one for a BEARS bike over here (when i save some money)

[Hillbilly]

They sure do. You can check out the new 2006 model here:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=34715

[gav]

That's the stock street Mito too with headlights, numberplate brackets, indicators etc all attached. The 525 SP should be a fair bit quicker, with a higher top end.

I seriously considered the Arpilia RS 125, but just couldn't get into the gear shift on the right and brake on the left like the old British bikes.

WTF are you talking about? Why do you think the brake and gearshift are switched around on the Aprilia? You even posted photos of the bikes, all I see is the rear brake lever on the left side, as per normal!
How old are you, anyway?

[F5 Dave]

Nah, that thing that looks like a gear lever linkage leading to the engine really routes to a special internal master cylinder. The gears are operated hydraulically by that master cylinder looking thing attached to the right hand lever. Simple mistake.:dodge:

Now that Aprillia have been sold they were made to change to right hand gear change so they could complete in India where the Royal Enfield still roams free.

OOhh 25 hp unrestricted! Sort of like I said. So some more tuning is going to release 48. Maybe shave the head & polish the frame might help.

[Hillbilly]

Nah, that thing that looks like a gear lever linkage leading to the engine really routes to a special internal master cylinder. The gears are operated hydraulically by that master cylinder looking thing attached to the right hand lever. Simple mistake.

Now that Aprillia have been sold they were made to change to right hand gear change so they could complete in India where the Royal Enfield still roams free.

So who owns Aprilia now? The Royal Enfields are popular here and expensive as well. This new 2006 street model costs $8,995 AUD + ORC. Anyway, here are closeups of the rear wheel and levers, both sides:

[F5 Dave]

Um, just for those that didn’t pick up on my sarcasm they are of course left hand gear change. Can’t remember who bought Aprillia but they had hit the wall for a while. Those wheels look real sexy.

[Hillbilly]

Yeah, got a lot on my plate business wise - so didn't pick it up. I have an invite to go to down Philip Island for the MotoGP for free, leaving on Tuesday, and I can't because of a very important business lunch :( .
Oh well, that's life.

Here's who/what I'll be up against. Pic 1 & 2- F5 Nationals champ, and Pic 2 - F5 Club. I've added the article about the National Champ too. So what was Gav saying regarding my age?

[ajturbo]

Yeah, got a lot on my plate business wise - so didn't pick it up. I have an invite to go to down Philip Island for the MotoGP for free, leaving on Tuesday, and I can't because of a very important business lunch :( .
Oh well, that's life.

Here's who/what I'll be up against. Pic 1 & 2- F5 Nationals champ, and Pic 2 - F5 Club. I've added the article about the National Champ too. So what was Gav saying regarding my age?

don't listen to "gav".. i'll kick him where it hurts for ya.....he is as old as the hills and knows EVERYTHING the bugger

ask him about the time he TRIED to get away from a cop on nifty 50!!!! that'll shut him up:done:
oh and my son luke beating him when we go the CHCH....:zzzz:

[Ivan]

the guys and girls of CHCH will find out the real speed of my 125.. as i lap them.. it is good for 197km/h :scooter: but as i haven't tested it in top gear yet it should do more

it did 140kph facing into the wind so you think when your going downthe straight with a baack wind im going for 250kph +

[ajturbo]

it did 140kph facing into the wind so you think when your going downthe straight with a baack wind im going for 250kph +

yer that feels about right

[Hillbilly]

OK, so "H" rated tyres might be a little dicey then? (Details attached)

[Kickaha]

it did 140kph facing into the wind so you think when your going downthe straight with a baack wind im going for 250kph +


AJ's bike couldn't pull a sailor off your sister, I passed him with ease at Taupo and in the flying 1/4 my bike wouldn't do more than 122kmh :bleh:

Although long track at Ruapuna it "indicates" 149kph just over redline in top

[ajturbo]

AJ's bike couldn't pull a sailor off your sister, I passed him with ease at Taupo and in the flying 1/4 my bike wouldn't do more than 122kmh :bleh:

Although long track at Ruapuna it "indicates" 149kph just over redline in top

as that was the first time out on a new bike, that had no fork oil, and the rear shocks .... well they were there in name only...
but now.. just ask the guys.. is it fast ?:second: ( you do realise that i'm talking about the bike here and not ME!!!)... in fact i may just let luke ride it and i'll use his 50......
as for the sailor... as long as he paid your sister the normal amount ...i'll let him stay:done:

[ajturbo]

OK, so "H" rated tyres might be a little dicey then? (Details attached)


what's all this crap about 17" wheels????

i'm taking the 21" of the DT, filing off the knoblies and running a slick!:nono:

[Hillbilly]

Here's the reason here:


BRIDGESTONE TYRE RULE
All competitors who have 17” wheels will be required to use Bridgestone tyres to score points in the 2005 WRP-Bridgestone National BEARS Series. In the event of a race being declared wet, tyre brand and choice is open. Competitors who have 18” wheels are not required to use Bridgestone tyres.

Non-Bridgestone shod machines will be permitted to compete, and will be eligible to score points and win trophies on the day but they will not accrue those points towards the WRP-Bridgestone National BEARS Series.

For the purpose of Scoring the WRP-Bridgestone National BEARS Series, any Non-Bridgestone competitor will not be included in the finishing positions used to score the points.

The same rules willl apply next season as well. :shit: