Sad joke

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sorry if this is a re post, but I just read on Xtra that the sorry wankstain that tossed the concrete block off the overpass and killed a decent human was given only FOUR years!

Some 'justice system' we have.

You're likely to get more for growing your own stash.

Grrrrrr

[Lou Girardin]

The poor disadvantaged widdums didn't mean to kill someone when he dropped a 12 kilo lump of concrete on a car.
Who would've thought it could hurt someone?
I just hope Chris Curry's mates find the bastard and make sure he never lifts anything heavier than a pair of crutches again.

[magicfairy]

He was 15! Just a kid.
A stupid teenager who didn't think thru the consequences of his actions like most 15 year olds. So none of you ever did anything blindingly stupid at that age?
And now his own life is ruined.

Locking him up for life won't change anything.
My 2 cents.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Better justice for sure.
As the father said.....how insulting.

To think the justice system thinks your sons life is worth only four years???

What would the sentence have been if it was a high court judges son do you think?

[Scouse]

He was 15! Just a kid.
A stupid teenager who didn't think thru the consequences of his actions like most 15 year olds. So none of you ever did anything blindingly stupid at that age?
And now his own life is ruined.

Locking him up for life won't change anything.
My 2 cents.Ah the Bleeding Hearts have just Chimed in obviously a sandle wearing tree hugger

[Crasherfromwayback]

He was 15! Just a kid.
A stupid teenager who didn't think thru the consequences of his actions like most 15 year olds. So none of you ever did anything blindingly stupid at that age?
And now his own life is ruined.

Locking him up for life won't change anything.
My 2 cents.

I can't agree with you sorry!

Yeah I did plenty of silly things when I was younger, in fact, I'm still doing them now....you shoulda seen me at Wanganui '05'!

BUT......never would I have done such a stupid and dangerous thing.

Anyone would know, from a very early age that 100kph + 8 Kilo concrete slab from 40ft = death or serious injury.

Four years is not enough for the seriousness of the crime.

[Lou Girardin]

He was 15! Just a kid.
A stupid teenager who didn't think thru the consequences of his actions like most 15 year olds. So none of you ever did anything blindingly stupid at that age?
And now his own life is ruined.

Locking him up for life won't change anything.
My 2 cents.

Face the Curry's and say that.
His life isn't ruined . He has free room and board for 4 years while he learns to be a better criminal.

[98tls]

And to cap it off the peice of shit wont do anywere near 4 years......the victims family will do a lifetime..sucks...should cut the pricks arms off just in case he gets the urge to do it again some day.

[magicfairy]

Actually I am not a Bleeding Heart Tree Hugger. I work damn hard and pay my taxes like anyone else.
But I am a parent with a teenage son and I know how stupid they can be.

I don't think locking people up and throwing away the key, or treating violence with violence ever solves any problems or reduces the crime rate.
That has been shown over and over again to be the case.

All prison does is teach inmates how to be criminals.

I really feel for the poor family that lost Chris, but nothing will bring him back.

[inlinefour]

He was 15! Just a kid.
A stupid teenager who didn't think thru the consequences of his actions like most 15 year olds. So none of you ever did anything blindingly stupid at that age?
And now his own life is ruined.

Locking him up for life won't change anything.
My 2 cents.

This attitude above perhaps is a prime example of why political correctness is a joke. He did the crime and must also do the time. When people fail, its that, not "did not achieve" and give as many times needed to get it done. I could not care less that the perpetrator of the crime has his life ruined and find it rather amusing that someone does. Too bad that some decient person died as a result of complete stupidity! Its a good thing that the 2 cent peice is no longer valid as I disagree with you 100%

[98tls]

Actually I am not a Bleeding Heart Tree Hugger. I work damn hard and pay my taxes like anyone else.
But I am a parent with a teenage son and I know how stupid they can be.

I don't think locking people up and throwing away the key, or treating violence with violence ever solves any problems or reduces the crime rate.
That has been shown over and over again to be the case.


Actually violence can be handy.....Sourkrauts horrible..if it wasnt for the odd bit of violence we could all be eating it..:gob:

[skelstar]

But I am a parent with a teenage son and I know how stupid they can be.
Im going to assume your'e a good mother. You sound fairly sensible, but you can't say that you wouldn't be absolutely amazed that your son had just dropped an 8kg block of concrete onto a car travelling along at 100km/h? Dumb-founded? Surely this was premeditated and the consequences were thought out well before the darling wee boy lifted that block over the barrier.

[cowboyz]

surely if he made it to 15 with such a lack of common sense then we don't need him in society for the next 40 years. It doesn't take a rocket scentist to tell you that whatever the outcome of dropping a rock on to a car on the motorway isn't going to end well.

[eliot-ness]

I don't think locking people up and throwing away the key, or treating violence with violence ever solves any problems or reduces the crime rate.
That has been shown over and over again to be the case.

All prison does is teach inmates how to be criminals.

I agree totally. A humane killer to the side of the head is considered to be a non violent and much cheaper deterrent. Works for other types of animal.
Incidentally, he isn't going to prison. Some sort of youth detention centre from what I understand. Don't think he'll be too badly treated there.

[Maha]

Actually I am not a Bleeding Heart Tree Hugger. I work damn hard and pay my taxes like anyone else.



''Neh Neh Neh Neh Neh Neh'' !........:violin:

[judecatmad]

He was 15! Just a kid.
A stupid teenager who didn't think thru the consequences of his actions like most 15 year olds. So none of you ever did anything blindingly stupid at that age?
And now his own life is ruined.

Locking him up for life won't change anything.
My 2 cents.

Yup, did lots of blindingly stupid things (am still making some god-awful mistakes even at 33) but I never, ever killed a person or did anything that could have resulted in the death or serious injury of someone.

For god's sake, at what age must you be expected to know the difference between a silly prank and a potential life-taker? How long is this nanny state going to keep taking away responsibility from its citizens? And how long are parents of kids going to let them run wild and then deny any responsibility when they screw up?

If he had been 18 or 20 or even 30 would he have got the same? Actually, you know, I wonder....given the soft-line the justice system takes these days...I truly do wonder.

No, the kid probably never expected the kill someone but that's only because he probably never expected the rock to actually hit anyone's car. It's not murder, but it is most definitely manslaughter and if manslaughter gets a person 4 years (in what will be, let's face it, a pretty cushy detention centre somewhere, given the kid's age) then woo hoo, let's all go out and do whatever we like and sod the consequences.

And no, his own life is not ruined (but even if it was, who cares? he's ruined way more than one life with his stupid actions). He'll be under 20 when he gets out. If he even serves half his sentence I'll be amazed. And at less than 20, he has his WHOLE LIFE to make up for his past. That's if he learns anything from this at all.

My 2c.

[Crasherfromwayback]

But I am a parent with a teenage son and I know how stupid they can be.


I really feel for the poor family that lost Chris, but nothing will bring him back.

Then I'd be surprised if you didn't want more than four years for the person that took your sons life in a premeditated act of stupid violence.

You'd be ok with that yeah?

I don't think so, and if so......Jesus!

[Brett]

I couldn't believe it when i heard that he only got 4 years, i was absolutely pissed, more outraged than i have been with many things in the media lately...bar the kahui twins.

How can this little shit only get 4 years? What sort of precedence does this set?? It says that if you want to get 4 years free food and accomodation housed in a state youth detention center while getting the chance to get a good FREE?? education.
He will leave prison younger than the guy he was was.

And who says violence doesn't solve anything??? I was just hearing today on Newtalk ZB about a city overseas that was rife with gangs causing shit like cutting people all over with razor blades and beating people up and robbing them.
The council/police got together a whole group of ex-SAS boys and gave them the instructions to clean the area up.
They would pick the gang punks up off the road, beat them up and leave them in a ditch 20km out of town. And funny thing...the crime rates dropped!

I am tired of the bleeding hearts out there defending these kids, at 15 you are old enough to know what you are doing. My 9 year old sister would know that a heavy concrete block dropped on someone driving on the motorway would kill them. If he is too dumb to realise that, then i say bring back the death penalty because who knows if the next person would be my wife, or other loved one. I know that if I was Chris' brother or mate, i would ensure that the little punk never forgets what he did.

I hope that you guys have good helmets, cause you never know when a chunk of concrete will be meeting your head or torso from an overbridge.

[Hitcher]

I hear a lot of heat but I'm not reading any light. So what do all of you outraged folk think would have been a "fairer" sentence? You may wish to consider:

- First offender
- 15-years old
- Manslaughter.

I'd like to hear some reasoned responses, rather than just a bunch of vigilantes baying for blood.

[skelstar]

We're not rational yet.

[Patrick]

He was 15! Just a kid.
A stupid teenager who didn't think thru the consequences of his actions like most 15 year olds. So none of you ever did anything blindingly stupid at that age?
And now his own life is ruined.

Locking him up for life won't change anything.
My 2 cents.

Worst 2c spent on here in a while... at 15 you know right from wrong. Yep, most would have done stupid stuff at 15, but the vast overwhelming majority won't do anything close to this form of ultimate stupidity.

[Patrick]

Face the Curry's and say that.
His life isn't ruined . He has free room and board for 4 years while he learns to be a better criminal.

Free room and board for two years Lou... and he has served 1 already (as time in remand). Sucks.

Surely everyone knows if you get four, you do 2. You get 10, you do 5 etc etc etc...

[Scouse]

I hear a lot of heat but I'm not reading any light. So what do all of you outraged folk think would have been a "fairer" sentence? You may wish to consider:

- First offender
- 15-years old
- Manslaughter.

I'd like to hear some reasoned responses, rather than just a bunch of vigilantes baying for blood.It might be Its first offence and it might have been only 14 when it through the boulder off the overbridge but for heavens sake its not like it just shop lifted a Mars bar from the local Dairy this is a serious crime and it deserves serious punishment not a slap on the back of the hand with a wet bus ticket this thing needs to be caged up properly for a long time

[yungatart]

Wrong on so many levels! I am the parent of a 15 yo too and if he ever did anything that stupid, harebrained and totally thoughtless, I'd bloody well brain him myself!!
What is far worse than the trifling four years is that the dumb little prick will probably be out in ONE - that is a total slap in the face to society, not to mention the family and friends of the victim!

[riffer]

Look on the bright side people.

It's more than you'd get if you drove a car into him and killed him.

If I was going to kill someone (not that I would mind you) I would definitely run into them with a really strong car...

[Crasherfromwayback]

I hear a lot of heat but I'm not reading any light. So what do all of you outraged folk think would have been a "fairer" sentence? You may wish to consider:

- First offender
- 15-years old
- Manslaughter.

I'd like to hear some reasoned responses, rather than just a bunch of vigilantes baying for blood.

I think ten years of cleaning blood and guts from mortuary tables would be a good start. I also think chemical casturation is pretty fair. If he's not smart enough to realise his actions would more than likely kill, he's certainly not smart enough to bring a child of his own up properly.

[Hitcher]

It might be Its first offence and it might have been only 14 when it through the boulder off the overbridge but for heavens sake its not like it just shop lifted a Mars bar from the local Dairy this is a serious crime and it deserves serious punishment not a slap on the back of the hand with a wet bus ticket this thing needs to be caged up properly for a long time

I'm still not hearing an alternative to what the Court handed down.

[Scouse]

I'm still not hearing an alternative to what the Court handed down.Ok hows this a longer sentence like 8 years before parole is conciderd in a real prison with proper prisoners that will tear it a new arsehole if it somuch as farts the wrong way

[Flatcap]

I hear a lot of heat but I'm not reading any light. So what do all of you outraged folk think would have been a "fairer" sentence? You may wish to consider:

- First offender
- 15-years old
- Manslaughter.

I'd like to hear some reasoned responses, rather than just a bunch of vigilantes baying for blood.

This isn't about fairness or reasoned responses - it's about clearing the gene pool of morons and protecting the rest of us from idiotic actions.

[Hitcher]

That wasn't so hard, now was it?

[MD]

Sorry Hitcher but there is no affordable and workable alternatives available to society at present apart from isolate the offender. It's a similar situation to cancer. Doctors would love to have a pill that would magically clear up a cancer. Sadly all they can do at present is cut out the cancer and hope that the rest of the body survives. One day we may have a cure. With violent crime the body is our society. There are only two options available to us when someone kills someone else
1. do nothing because we can't change their violent tendencies and allow the offender to move freely among us'. I doubt that approach will deter people.
Or
2. remove the offender from society to protect others and hopefully act as punishment & deterrent
Agreed, as a deterrent prison is not very sucessful. But faced with those two choices I sleep better knowing that those murderers that we know of, are behind bars.
The bleeding hearts are so quick to defend the offender but never seem to be there to defend the dead victims of crime? Why is that?
Bleeding hearts also overlook the fact that those baying for blood, would not be baying for blood, if said 14 y.o. had not killed an innocent man. The 'Kid' made a conscious decision to do what he did. Unless he was 'breathtakingly' unintelligent he had to know it would likely kill. Most kids know by about 6 yrs what hurts others and is therefore wrong.
There is a despicable group within our society allowing these crimes to be perpetrated and I blame them more than the offenders and the their upbringing etc - Judges and Parole Boards. How many people have died because they failed to protect us. Anyone remember the RSA murders, the Otago schoolgirl raped and killed by a paroled rapist, the elderly Kapiti lady raped and killed by a rapist out on parole. I'm sure we could all name more.
Would be great if we could add something to the water supply and people would be nice. Until then the rights of the innocent must come first and we deserve protection by whatever means are available to us.
How could the judge say his act was breathtakingly stupid, not manslaughter. Drop 8kg from 5m on to the judge and ask if that was just a breathtaking prank. I consider the judge the breathtakingly stupid one.

[marty]

i'd like to hear magic fairy's sentence suggestion.

mine - 20 years for manslaughter, parole no earlier than 10.

life for murder. life means life.

he was charged as an adult - should be sentenced as one. spend the first 3 years in juvie detention, then on to adult prison. the longer that dangerous social misfits such as these are out of circulation, the better. it's not my problem that the prisons are filling up - hey here's an idea - stop committing crime!

what pisses me off is the greenies saying that because the prisons are filling up then we are obviously incarcerating too many people. have they actually looked at why these people are being jailed? there is a reason for it, and instead of releasing early, bailing when they shouldn't, not imprisoning cause the prison is too full, they need to look at the root cause for it. in the meantime, lots of people are going to be bad, and they should go to prison. why should females feel at risk from rapists, families be scared of their males, accountants be able to walk home without being murdered by a random act with a baseball bat, parents worry about the p dealers in town, good people should be able to invest their life savings without being scammed etc etc. jail is the result of the cancer (as was said above). deal with the cancer of course, but in the meantime, some people are going to be affected by it - just do all that can be done to prevent it to being the innocent ones

[Crasherfromwayback]

Would be great if we could add something to the water supply and people would be nice.

We could, but we'd get more than four years for supplying ecstasy.

[judecatmad]

I hear a lot of heat but I'm not reading any light. So what do all of you outraged folk think would have been a "fairer" sentence? You may wish to consider:

- First offender
- 15-years old
- Manslaughter.

I'd like to hear some reasoned responses, rather than just a bunch of vigilantes baying for blood.

I think regardless of first offence (when you're looking at this sort of offence, that it's your first really shouldn't be a good thing....), a minimum 10 year sentence with no parole should apply. Age shouldn't really come into it. That's my view on this sort of manslaughter.

If truth be told, no length of sentence is going to make the dead guy's loved ones feel any better, but 4 years truly is an insult and it's really no deterrent to any other kid who is stupid enough to still be thinking that what this kid did is 'cool' and a bit of a hoot.

This was not some freak accident where a set of circumstances which could not have been predicted came together and resulted in someone's tragic death - that sort of manslaughter is something completely different. No, this kid took what could only be described as a primitive but lethal weapon and dropped it into the path of fast moving vehicles. It's not murder but my God, it's close.

I'm old school (Policeman's daughter) and truly believe that 'life means life' - if you give a life sentence for a murder, then how can 4 years for the unintentional killing of someone (which is what manslaughter is) be justified? First offence or not.

Would anybody who has chirped out in this kid's defence feel the same if he were a 15 year old drink driver, several times over the limit who caused an accident which killed someone?

OK, I have no more c's worth left to give! I'm off to bed!! Been a hard day!

Have a good night folks :)

[stunz]

heres my 2c...er... 5c wor...um, crap! 10c worth...

That little shite bag new exactly what he was doing.

He would have timed dropping that lump of rock to coincide exactly with meeting the front windscreen of that guys car. IMHO, thats premeditation. My guess is he would have stood there after releasing it and watched it go through the screen, patting himself on the back for his great aiming skills. For the defence to convince the jury that he didnt know what he was doing is mind boggling. But then hey! thats what our tax dollar is for eh?

He'll stew in an institution for another year before he's released. (4yr = 2yr, 1 already served, possibly get home detention). By then he would have screwed as much as he could out of our failure of a system (and got some tips on how to carry on doing it) and he will get more aid and support when he's released to help him 'integrate' back into society.

Meanwhile, the family of the poor bugger he deliberately killed will get nothing in the way of support from the very same system. Yea. Thats justice...Aotearoa style...support the offender, screw the victim. go figure.

[Bussaman]

An eye for an eye I say.
Bring back the death penalty.:angry:

[Patrick]

Watch this space... what is the bet he will not learn from it and not contribute to society?????? He will be out next year.... I bet it won't take too long for him to be in trouble again.

Lead poisoning works well.

[Ixion]

It's not possible to pass judgement on one so young without knowing him a lot more than anyone can from press reports.

If he really is a stupid kid who did a REAL dumb thing, but is basically all there (and I did some REAL dumb things when I was his age, 'cept I was lucky and noone got hurt); then an indefinate period (but I'd expect at least 3 or 4 years) in a "boot camp" army style place. Strict discipline and all that, but teach him something useful, give him some foundations (do what his parents should have done)

If he's do far gone for salvage ; a quick bullet to the head. Not revenge or bloodlust, just clinical logic. If he can't be salvaged to become a productive member of society, eliminate him.

[Patrick]

Too right Ixion. Learn some hard work and respect and values for a change in the Army or something like it, but we all know that isn't going to happen in his nice kiddie retreat.

[rwh]

This is a scary thread.

I see 4 reasons for whatever sentence is handed down, for whatever crime:

1. Isolation - make sure they can't do it again

2. Deterrent - try to make people not want to do it

3. Reparation - undo the damage

4. Revenge - make other people feel better

I'm happy to hear more.

Isolation:

If you're going to isolate someone, which is reasonable, you'd better have some confidence that either they're not going to do it again when they get out - otherwise the reason hasn't changed, and you might as well lock them up for ever. Oh, and you'd better be sure that they were likely to do it again in the first place.

It works as long as the sentence lasts, but my understanding is that people generally get worse, due to mixing with other criminals and probably brooding on how unfair society has been to them, building up grudges. A bit like the way people in this thread and elsewhere are backing each other up, and pushing for harsher and harsher sentences - the more people grumble about it, the tougher they want to be. I can picture exactly the same thing happening in jail, but mixed in with education on how to cause trouble.

In this case, it was a stupid prank, yes he should have seen the consequences - but he's seen them now and is unlikely to do it again. I think it's unlikely he intended to kill or even injure - there's lots of gap between cars. Probably thought they'd have to swerve a bit. And not everyone is going to figure that the car's 100km/h counts; that's not the direction the block was moving. So if he's not going to do it again, isolation isn't required, and is likely to cause more harm than good.

Deterrent:

The idea is to make other people scared of the sentence so they won't want to do it themselves (or the same person, if they haven't been isolated). For starters, it only makes sense if people are likely to want to do it themselves anyway - and if they are, then often they think it's worth it, or they won't get caught (not necessarily logically), or they're so emotional about it they're not thinking about possible sentences anyway. To me, the only things that make sense to have a deterrent for are things like shoplifting or fraud, where you can reasonably calculate an acceptable risk. And I'm sure there are many possible deterrent sentences other than jail.

Nobody else has done it as far as I know, and now that we've all seen what can happen, it's unlikely anyone else will. There's no actual gain from doing it, so not much incentive. So the deterrent, in my view, is mostly covered by such things as the general horror of seeing it in the media, and by the guy's own remorse. Get him to talk to the victim's family or work in A&E if more is required, but I think jail is pretty pointless.

Reparation:

Sure, if you've stolen something you should have to give it back - or replace something if you've damaged it. If that's possible. Jail won't ever achieve that

Other than the damage to the car, and funeral expenses etc, there's nothing that can be paid back. The guy died, and that is certainly tragic - but no form of punishment can bring him back. So there's no reparation possible - at least not for the death.

Revenge:

This seems to be what most people want. They (and I) want to see that something has been done. Most comments are phrased like it's one of the other three that's wanted, but people will keep calling for harsher punishments even when those arguments don't stack up. And in the end, isn't revenge something that 'civilised' society tries to work away from? This is the hardest bit to write. When someone does something to offend me, whether something like this, or parking in a disabled space or whatever, sometimes I'll want to hit them - but then I'll calm down and realise there's no point (and that I'm pretty hopeless at hitting people).

So in general, I think isolation is irrelevant, deterrent doesn't need to be much, maybe he should have to contribute to the cost of the funeral and the car and stuff. And perhaps a bit of revenge to keep the masses happy - how about the stocks? Anyone who wants can go pelt him with tomatoes.

I've spent a reasonable amount of time on this, but there's bound to be stuff I'll rethink (or at least wish I'd worded differently) later ... it's not fixed.

:dodge:
Richard

[Jonathan_D]

I can't agree with you sorry!

Yeah I did plenty of silly things when I was younger, in fact, I'm still doing them now....you shoulda seen me at Wanganui '05'!

BUT......never would I have done such a stupid and dangerous thing.

Anyone would know, from a very early age that 100kph + 8 Kilo concrete slab from 40ft = death or serious injury.

Four years is not enough for the seriousness of the crime.

Agreed.
If the kid was maybe 5 or 6 you might say that he couldn't put two and two together to equal homocide, but at 15???

At 15 I was driving my grandads truck... thus, I agree that anyone would know that car+concrete block=lunacy.

However, everyone knows that putting him away for any length of time isn't going to do anyone any good. The guy's still dead and the kid's only going to come out worse...
What do you do? Let the family decide? Capital punishment? Who knows? not I.

[Lou Girardin]

I hear a lot of heat but I'm not reading any light. So what do all of you outraged folk think would have been a "fairer" sentence? You may wish to consider:

- First offender
- 15-years old
- Manslaughter.

I'd like to hear some reasoned responses, rather than just a bunch of vigilantes baying for blood.

OK, he killed someone with an act that any normal person would realise is liable to do exactly that. He boasted about it at school. The 'remorse' shown in court would undoubtedly be at the coaching of his counsel. Neither he nor his family have contacted the Curry's.
If a jury of his peers (God forbid) haven't the sense to return a murder verdict, then at least the Judge should have demonstrated society's condemnation of his action with a meaningful sentence.
The murderer could well be out of jail in 3 months on home detention.

[Lou Girardin]

Look on the bright side people.

It's more than you'd get if you drove a car into him and killed him.

If I was going to kill someone (not that I would mind you) I would definitely run into them with a really strong car...

There's a subtle difference between that and throwing a boulder onto a moving vehicle. I'm sure I don't need to point the difference out.

[Cookie]

[...]I also think chemical casturation is pretty fair. If he's not smart enough to realise his actions would more than likely kill, he's certainly not smart enough to bring a child of his own up properly.

Could not agree more. His ability to contaminate the gene pool should be removed at once.


[...]I don't think locking people up and throwing away the key, or treating violence with violence ever solves any problems or reduces the crime rate.[...]

Err - actually it does. You can't chuck concrete off a motorway overbridge whilst locked up in a cell.

Nor can you rob, rape, or murder other law abiding people. It's also difficult to breed in there which just doubles the merit of the whole thing.

[Lias]

Bring back capital punishment.

Nothing wrong with that little fucker that some good stout rope and a short sharp drop wouldnt fix.

[Patrick]

Just to make it better... I now hear that he is going to be out by Xmas on home detention...

[Str8 Jacket]

Just to make it better... I now hear that he is going to be out by Xmas on home detention...

He MAY be out, here is the article http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3789644a10,00.html

IMO its just not fair, especially to Chris' family....

[Patrick]

He MAY be out, here is the article http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3789644a10,00.html

IMO its just not fair, especially to Chris' family....

He WILL be out.... wait and see...

[judecatmad]

So in general, I think isolation is irrelevant, deterrent doesn't need to be much, maybe he should have to contribute to the cost of the funeral and the car and stuff. And perhaps a bit of revenge to keep the masses happy - how about the stocks? Anyone who wants can go pelt him with tomatoes.


So this kid should pay a few thousand dollars and that's the end of it? Oh, and a couple of kilos of rotten veggies are to be thrown at him....

Nice to know that you think life is so cheap.....

[outlawtorn]

He was 15! Just a kid.
A stupid teenager who didn't think thru the consequences of his actions like most 15 year olds. So none of you ever did anything blindingly stupid at that age?
And now his own life is ruined.

Locking him up for life won't change anything.
My 2 cents.

What??????
So a smack on the bum and a stern telling off should see him right hey? Lock the bastard behind bars for life, society doesn't need murderers.

[rwh]

So this kid should pay a few thousand dollars and that's the end of it? Oh, and a couple of kilos of rotten veggies are to be thrown at him....

Nice to know that you think life is so cheap.....

I don't think life is cheap - but there's currently no way of paying it back.

Richard

[Patrick]

The maximum for "mans laughter" is life in prison. What do you have to do to get the maximums here? Deliberate action, death of an innocent, no remorse whatsoever, as in this case...

Burglars can be sentenced to 10 years... one I caught and ended up being charged with 186 burglaries (I shit you not... and he was a cop!!!) got 3 years, and on appeal, he got 5 years.

Just two examples of good hard work being undone by Judges at a stroke of a pen... Pffftttt...

I am sure there will be many other examples.....

[Lil_Byte]

I like the idea of braining the kid with a hunk of concrete while he is travelling at 100ks on the motor way.

I like the idea of an eye for an eye

[Lou Girardin]

one I caught and ended up being charged with 186 burglaries (I shit you not... and he was a cop!!!) .

Did he have approval for his second job?
I'm glad to see the recruitment system is as good as ever.

[The_Dover]

Compare this little pricks sentence with that of the 10yr old killers of Jamie Bulger in the UK, fucking pathetic.

I'd give him the concrete block and tell him that he can come out when he's finished eating it.

And he'd have to play a full 80 mins against his victims first XV every weekend with a blind referee.

[magicfairy]

Wasn't going to bother to reply in light of the scathing comments that I am reading, so here is my last word on the subject.

Yes I am a good mother, but I have been surprised by some of the idiot things my son did at 14. Now he is 18 he has a different headspace.

I am not saying 4 years is the right sentence but I don't think his crime is up there with the men that stab their girlfriends 20X cos they are jealous, or murder little kids, or are serial rapists.

Personally I do not hold with the Death Penalty - what if the courts get it wrong (Rex Haig, Arthur Alan Thomas, David Dougherty...)
As for chemical castration...

I think he should serve his 4 years, don't agree with him being out in 1.
My point was he was 14 at the time, and I really don't believe his intention was murder.

And what would I like his sentence to be - obviously some sort of detention, I never said "slap him on the wrist with a wet bus ticket"

But as he is to be locked up make it constructive, give him values, let him learn the meaning of hard work, teach him skills, give him role models - be it in some sort of Army-type training, so that when he does come out he has a chance to make a contribution to society and not cost the taxpayer a fortune keeping him in jail.


This is a democracy and last time I checked we had something called Freedom of Speech and the right to have an opinion. Which I aired. And now regret.

[Patrick]

Did he have approval for his second job?
I'm glad to see the recruitment system is as good as ever.

Nah... thats why he got the 5 years - for not gaining approval for his secondary employment. Just a slap on the hand with a dry bus ticket (coz the wet ones might hurt) from the judges for the Burglaries.

[The_Dover]

Wasn't going to bother to reply in light of the scathing comments that I am reading, so here is my last word on the subject.

Yes I am a good mother, but I have been surprised by some of the idiot things my son did at 14. Now he is 18 he has a different headspace.

I am not saying 4 years is the right sentence but I don't think his crime is up there with the men that stab their girlfriends 20X cos they are jealous, or murder little kids, or are serial rapists.

Personally I do not hold with the Death Penalty - what if the courts get it wrong (Rex Haig, Arthur Alan Thomas, David Dougherty...)
As for chemical castration...

I think he should serve his 4 years, don't agree with him being out in 1.
My point was he was 14 at the time, and I really don't believe his intention was murder.

And what would I like his sentence to be - obviously some sort of detention, I never said "slap him on the wrist with a wet bus ticket"

But as he is to be locked up make it constructive, give him values, let him learn the meaning of hard work, teach him skills, give him role models - be it in some sort of Army-type training, so that when he does come out he has a chance to make a contribution to society and not cost the taxpayer a fortune keeping him in jail.


This is a democracy and last time I checked we had something called Freedom of Speech and the right to have an opinion. Which I aired. And now regret.

NOW DO YOU GUYS SEE WHY WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE GIVEN WOMEN THE VOTE???

fucking bad idea that was eh?

[Patrick]

[QUOTE=magicfairy;745542]
"I think he should serve his 4 years, don't agree with him being out in 1.
My point was he was 14 at the time, and I really don't believe his intention was murder."

- To serve 4, he would have to be sentenced to "at least" 8 years. He knew what he did would cause what actually happened. Fact!

"But as he is to be locked up make it constructive, give him values, let him learn the meaning of hard work, teach him skills, give him role models - be it in some sort of Army-type training, so that when he does come out he has a chance to make a contribution to society and not cost the taxpayer a fortune keeping him in jail."

This won't happen - he will be in a nice little place where they have Play Stations or X-Boxes, no hard work, no Army training, role models will be other street gangstas, the reality is quite different to what one would expect. Fact!

"This is a democracy and last time I checked we had something called Freedom of Speech and the right to have an opinion. Which I aired. And now regret."

It is a democracy - speak up and make comment, girl! The point here is that killing someone is only worth 4 years (serve one third and you're out on parole, or, home on home Detention by this Xmas...) - how do the courts equate that 4 years was ever going to be enough?

[terbang]

I really feel for the poor family that lost Chris, but nothing will bring him back.


But there are deterrents to stop this sort of thing happening in the first place

[terbang]

Stark contrast between here and Indonesia.

NZ: Some low life, shit head kid, deliberatly drops a lump of concrete off a bridge and kills a guy and is only likely to serve a few months in a comfortable jail..! And there are those that defend him..!

Indonesia: A bunch of Aussie (and other) drug smugglers appeal a life sentence in jail and end up getting the firing squad..!

[Crasherfromwayback]

As for chemical castration...



And what's wrong with my suggestion?

They guys premeditated an horrific crime with horrendous consequenses, why should he have the joy of having a child when he's destroyed another familys joy? He's obviously not smart enough to bring a child up properly!!!

Gotta 'break the cycle' some time.......

[Goblin]

As for chemical castration...

Make it physical castration!! We don't need losers like these breeding!

[Str8 Jacket]

It really sux when someone fucks up big time like this. Its bad enough that he even dropped the thing let alone kill someone... What he has done makes me really angry. He's gonna have to live with this for the rest of his life. Everyone will know his name and what he did. I really hope that he doesnt become a harden criminal once he is released cause he's got quite a few years left in him yet.

[RT527]

He was 15! Just a kid.
A stupid teenager who didn't think thru the consequences of his actions like most 15 year olds. So none of you ever did anything blindingly stupid at that age?
And now his own life is ruined.

Locking him up for life won't change anything.
My 2 cents.

I kinda agree here.
The Boy knew damn well that he was going to cause damage to the vehicle, what he didnt factor in is that the concrete block would hit the windscreen and he probably never thought that it would actually go through the windscreen and kill someone.....he was intent on
having fun .
But I still think 4 yrs should be done locked away from everybody, No TV, No Stereo, No contact....Hell maybe they should Make him do School work for the next four years solid.

[rwh]

I kinda agree here.
The Boy knew damn well that he was going to cause damage to the vehicle, what he didnt factor in is that the concrete block would hit the windscreen and he probably never thought that it would actually go through the windscreen and kill someone.....he was intent on [having fun].

My thoughts too.



But I still think 4 yrs should be done locked away from everybody, No TV, No Stereo, No contact....Hell maybe they should Make him do School work for the next four years solid.

I don't see the point in taking away the TV and the stereo. Contact with other criminals, I partly do. I've wondered about how it would work to never let 2 or more inmates be together without someone monitoring them, and stopping them every time they get out of line in any way - from planning crime (obviously) right down to swearing or taking pleasure from someone else's misfortune. Show them it's possible to be a decent citizen, in other words. The jailers need to respect that too, of course - the sentence is to be incarcerated, not to be humiliated or anything else. They need to be treated with respect (not honoured for their crimes, obviously - just ordinary human respect), so they can learn it for themselves.

Richard

[Lou Girardin]

Indonesia: A bunch of Aussie (and other) drug smugglers appeal a life sentence in jail and end up getting the firing squad..!


You wouldn't think that when you appeal for mercy on a life sentence, that the Indonesian idea of mercy is to spare you 20 years of hell by killing you.:shit:

[Bend-it]

You wouldn't think that when you appeal for mercy on a life sentence, that the Indonesian idea of mercy is to spare you 20 years of hell by killing you.:shit:

It's not uncommon in Singapore as well! Haha! The present Chief Justice has a reputation for adding time after an appeal if it was more of a whinge and an attempt at getting of lighter, as opposed to having genuine reasons etc!

Bring him over here I reckon! Chief Justice Yong Pung How. Just say I sent you. ;)

[Swoop]

Just a slap on the hand with a dry bus ticket (coz the wet ones might hurt)
Sounds more dangerous to me... he might get a paper cut with the dry one!




At the very least with these people, sterilize them to avoid them contaminating the gene pool any further......

[pritch]

I don't think locking people up and throwing away the key, or treating violence with violence ever solves any problems or reduces the crime rate.
That has been shown over and over again to be the case.


Prison does work! If the criminals are in jail they can't commit crimes. Simple.

[rwh]

Prison does work! If the criminals are in jail they can't commit crimes. Simple.

Until they get out, at which time they'll be angrier with society, reinforced by discussing it with their new mates inside, who will have also taught them some new crimes to try.

You've got to change them as well - or leave them there for ever, and that's not appropriate for most crimes.

Richard

[ManDownUnder]

I kinda agree here.
The Boy knew damn well that he was going to cause damage to the vehicle, what he didnt factor in is that the concrete block would hit the windscreen and he probably never thought that it would actually go through the windscreen and kill someone.....

Yeah - probably the case. It's most likely a case of not thinking about what could happen.

Much like anyone on here doing 180 on their bike down an open country road. The chances are you'll get away with it and not do any damage. He possibly thought the same.

Then again he may not have.

I loved 15. I was a menace to myself and others and it was normal to get into a car with a pissed driver and go for a hoon, do wheelies etc. Great fun at the time, but I look back and shudder...


Bring him over here I reckon! Chief Justice Yong Pung How. Just say I sent you. ;)

I prefer a justice system that's just... as in the name. Rather than a punishment system



Prison does work! If the criminals are in jail they can't commit crimes. Simple.
uh huh... so that'd be no contact with the outside world while they're in prison then? and there's always the other point brought up below...


Until they get out, at which time they'll be angrier with society, reinforced by discussing it with their new mates inside, who will have also taught them some new crimes to try.

You've got to change them as well - or leave them there for ever, and that's not appropriate for most crimes.

Richard

Yup - that one. Prison's a great school for the crim to be.

[Street Gerbil]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am honestly surprised. How cannot you see that such a light treatment for taking one's life diminishes the value of human life per se. I would have (possibly) agreed that he is just a teenage moron if he would have stolen his parents' car and crashed it into somebody. Kids at 14 are invincible. I know I was. But at age 14 one could adequately understand the consequences of hurling a block of concrete onto the motorway, and if he could not then he needs to be confined in a mental institution rather than imprisoned. This is a clear-cut murder and should be treated as such. Not for his sake, and not even for the sake of the relatives and friends of the guy who got murdered, but for the sake of the whole society, because doing otherwise would send a message: "you can get away with murder if you play your cards right". :nono:

[Lou Girardin]

Greg Newbold, criminal turned criminologist, said that the light sentence was the wrong move. A longer spell inside, under the proper supervision, has a much better chance of making the killer realise that he's taken the wrong path.

[Finn]

I think a public stoning of this little fucker and his parents is what's needed. He's a mongrel and will always be one.

Sterilisation is another good method of reducing crime.

[Ixion]

Public stoning implies revenge, which solves nothing and simple clouds a relatively simple issue with emotion

The matter is quite simple. Is the person in question capable and willing to be a useful productive member of society, given reprogramming (and will the cost of reprogramming be cost effective). If yes, reprogram him. If no, eliminate him. But the elimination doesn't have to be an emotionally loaded big deal. Just a simple logical decision, and elimination in as quick and painless a way as possible.

Take the emotion out of these things and they become much simpler.

[Street Gerbil]

Is the person in question capable and willing to be a useful productive member of society, given reprogramming (and will the cost of reprogramming be cost effective). If yes, reprogram him. If no, eliminate him.
Anthony Burgess already explored this approach in his Clockwork Orange (http://fictionbook.ru/author/berdjes_yentoni/a_clockwork_orange/burgess_a_clockwork_orange.html) and found it unsatisfactory...

[Ixion]

Comrade Stalin reached a different conclusion as to efficiacy. YMMV

[ManDownUnder]

Public stoning implies revenge, which solves nothing and simple clouds a relatively simple issue with emotion

The irony is it starts allowing the public to get involved again.

My biggest gripe is the whole issue of the state being our protector, our provider, and the punishment of anyone getting in the way. If I saw that kid about to drop something off the edge I could go crash tackle him, kick him in the arse.. whatever... and be done for assault.

So there is a rule out there that say's I'll be punished for intervening (unless it's in defence of another and then you need to use reasonable force... to which I reply... any non lawyers out there able to define "reasonable force" accurately? I sure as hell can't so how can I be reasonably expected to use it?)



The matter is quite simple. Is the person in question capable and willing to be a useful productive member of society, given reprogramming (and will the cost of reprogramming be cost effective). If yes, reprogram him. If no, eliminate him. But the elimination doesn't have to be an emotionally loaded big deal. Just a simple logical decision, and elimination in as quick and painless a way as possible.
for the record - I disagree with the emilination but we'll agree to disagree on that - that's a WHOLE OTHER discussion.


Take the emotion out of these things and they become much simpler.

Agreed! :niceone: I think the emotion needs to be removed from the public involvement aspect.

Why are the general public not allowed, or encouraged or enabled to get involved in day to day maintenance of communal rules and requirements? If some little shit breaks into a house I want all the neighbours to work together on it. Someone spots him and yells, the one(s) nearest the phone ring the cops, while others wait outside and tackle the little bastard on the way out (or keep him in there).

Does it happen? Hell no. I'm not allowed to touch him, I don't care - it's their property and they wouldn't do anything for me... blah blah blah.

It's all bullshit. We've been brainwashed into doing nothing. The State and it's powers are the ones we are told to rely on (which is interesting considering the ads running at the moment... be prepared... you may have to think for yourself in a disaster..!)

Who have thought?

Anyway - raving off to do some email..

MDU

[Pixie]

He was 15! Just a kid.
A stupid teenager who didn't think thru the consequences of his actions like most 15 year olds. So none of you ever did anything blindingly stupid at that age?
And now his own life is ruined.

Locking him up for life won't change anything.
My 2 cents.

Remove his genes from the pool

[Pixie]

Actually violence can be handy.....Sourkrauts horrible..if it wasnt for the odd bit of violence we could all be eating it..:gob:

On the other hand,sauerkraut's lovely.
Mmmmm...sauerkraut

[Pixie]

btw: He got 4 years because a long sentence for a minor would endanger Clark's U.N. prospects

[Hitcher]

On the other hand,sauerkraut's lovely.
Mmmmm...sauerkraut

The best thing about sauerkraut is the wurst...