Police chief gets $120 fine for speeding - from stuff.co.nz

[riffer]

A top policeman has been ticketed by one of his own staff after being clocked driving almost 20km/h over the speed limit in an unmarked police car.


Central region district commander Superintendent Mark Lammas was caught travelling at 118km/h in a 100km/h speed zone on State Highway 3 between Wanganui and Palmerston North about 9.30pm last Thursday.

He was stopped about a kilometre from Turakina, on the Palmerston North side of the township. He had been in Wanganui on police business and was travelling alone.

He was automatically breath-tested by the constable who pulled him over, but passed.

He was then given a $120 ticket, which he has since paid.

It is his first infringement notice and he will incur 20 demerit points.

Mr Lammas said yesterday that his boss, Police Commissioner Rob Robinson, was "displeased" about the incident, but he felt his job was still safe. However, he expected the matter to be brought up at his yearly review with Mr Robinson. "I guess it's a black mark in the book, but hopefully there are plenty of positives there too."

He had apologised to the ticketing constable for putting him in the awkward position of having to ticket his own boss.

He said the officer, though uncomfortable about his chore, did what he had to do.

Mr Lammas has been outspoken against speeding.

When police were accused of revenue-collection after Taihape sergeant Steve Gibson issued 100 speeding tickets within an eight-hour period, Mr Lammas jumped to his defence.

"Bravo, I say. It's bringing the death rate down, the injury rate down and the crash rate down. I make no apologies in assisting that to occur," he was quoted as saying.

He said yesterday he still stood by those comments and would continue to target speeding motorists.


===========


At least he took it on the chin and paid up. :)

[Antallica]

HAHAHA What a dick.

[vifferman]

That's pretty heavy, huh, $120 AND 20 demerits for 18 km/h over. That's barely cruising speed....

[Quasievil]

Do you think he would have got a ticket at 111km/h like the rest of us would have :spudwhat:

[Mongoose]

Maybe it was over looked when I said the same thing happened down this way with an Insp., there was no fuss made of it and the dude payed up at the nearest bank that accepts payment.In that situation maybe shut up and pay up is best?

[750Y]

idiots like this make it harder for the rest of the cops.
as if it isn't bad enough that they are seen as being 'overzealous revenue collectors' now they get to add 'hypocrite' to the list.

[vifferman]

idiots like this make it harder for the rest of the cops.
as if it isn't bad enough that they are seen as being 'overzealous revenue collectors' now they get to add 'hypocrite' to the list.
I don't really agree. I think he handled this appropriately, and while it doesn't look that good for the police, it just shows you that it's the sort of 'mistake' that anyone can make. It's not like other 'crimes' such as theft, murder, whatever that are injurious to others. No - wait; my bad. :Oops:
I forgot:

"SPEED KILLS".

He's one of those KILLERS the media have been warning us about. :Pokey:

[k14]

"SPEED KILLS".

He's one of those KILLERS the media have been warning us about. :Pokey:

Yeah exactly, he is "willing" to kill you and I aswell. Apparantly everyone is willing to kill everyone. If that is the case shouldn't a death from the result of a car crash when the driver was speeding be classed as premeditated murder??

Wonder what the real speed he was going? This just decreases the credibility of the NZ Police more as far as I am concerned. Aren't they the ones supposed to be setting the example??

[Motoracer]

I say it's a publicity stunt to keep the mouths shut.

[aff-man]

MR might have a point. By doing this they basically are saying look we arn't revenue collecting because we ticket our own as well. Bullshit. He was probably doing more than 118 but got it lessened to make it look like he was speeding but not that much.

[Mongoose]

MR might have a point. By doing this they basically are saying look we arn't revenue collecting because we ticket our own as well. Bullshit. He was probably doing more than 118 but got it lessened to make it look like he was speeding but not that much.

You pricks make some awful quantum leaps of assumption!!!

I heard he was only doing 112kph but both of them thought it would look better if the speed was a bit higher, to show that we all can forget what speed we are doing and make mistakes ;)

[Motoracer]

You pricks make some awful quantum leaps of assumption!!!

I heard he was only doing 112kph but both of them thought it would look better if the speed was a bit higher, to show that we all can forget what speed we are doing and make mistakes ;)

Is this from an inside source? Do we have another Mr :Police:?

If what you say is true then it WAS all for show.

[Hoon]

I say good on them. Most of the NZ public would've expected some sort of differential treatment and the boss cop getting let off with a warning so it's good to see that the police are applying the "one rule for all" mentality.
I doubt you would see such integrity displayed by overseas Police. Good on the constable that ticketed him....my faith in the NZ Police just went up a notch.

[Jackrat]

You pricks make some awful quantum leaps of assumption!!!

I heard he was only doing 112kph but both of them thought it would look better if the speed was a bit higher, to show that we all can forget what speed we are doing and make mistakes ;)

Couldn't have said it better.
Hell the guy got a speeding ticket, let's hang him :killingme :msn-wink:

[aff-man]

:Oi: hey i'm not saying that it did occur my grammer is probably not correct. What i was getting at is that would this sorta thing be used as some sort of angle or something. He paid up so good on him and good on the guy that caught him, with level-headedness like that i'd rather be pulled over by him than some other members of the force.

[Motoracer]

It’s OK to think outside the square. It wasn't my conclusion either but I thought I'd give another perspective just so that we aren't all lead to believe something, which may in fact be not entirely true.

[Two Smoker]

This kind of thing happens all the time, i know of one situation where a policeman pulled over his boss (both in police cars) and ticketed his boss for speeding (78 in a 50 i think, anyway it was reasonably high)....

In the end, the boss got a good bollocking from higher up, and had to pay the ticket.... And for the Constable that pulled him over....... Well my dad bought him a box of beers hehehe:apint:

[Hitcher]

I well remember the comparatively recent case of a Police Commissioner and his bit of skirt who got stopped by a young Constable who allegedly "forgot" to breathtest said Commissioner when confronted. The Commissioner in question shortly afterwards became an ex-Commissioner...

[Mongoose]

Is this from an inside source? Do we have another Mr :Police:?

If what you say is true then it WAS all for show.

Maaaybe :whistle:

[marty]

and the winner of today's lateral thought prize is........

[spudchucka]

idiots like this make it harder for the rest of the cops.
as if it isn't bad enough that they are seen as being 'overzealous revenue collectors' now they get to add 'hypocrite' to the list.
Hypocrite or human being?? We all make mistakes and just because someone wears a uniform doesn't make them perfect. I reckon it was handled well and the Supt deserved the ticket, if only because police should be seen to be as accountable as any other citizen using the roads. As for discretion, well the Supt should know better and any excuse offered would be laughable, so he gets a ticket. Well done that cop.

[riffer]

Hypocrite or human being??


Exactly spud. Where is it written that police must be better than the rest of us humans?

The point I was making when originally posting this is that anyone can make mistakes. At least the superintendent had the balls to take the ticket, pay up and shut up.

Unlike the ex-commissioner Hitcher referred to.

[Lou Girardin]

You pricks make some awful quantum leaps of assumption!!!

I heard he was only doing 112kph but both of them thought it would look better if the speed was a bit higher, to show that we all can forget what speed we are doing and make mistakes ;)

It's slightly suspicious that a minor speeding infringement made the news.
I wonder who leaked it?

[riffer]

It's slightly suspicious that a minor speeding infringement made the news.
I wonder who leaked it?
Most likely the police them selve leaked it. After the flak they've been copping (pun not intended) it makes for pretty good PR.

[Motoracer]

Most likely the police them selve leaked it. After the flak they've been copping (pun not intended) it makes for pretty good PR.

And that's exactly what I said! :sneaky2:

[spudchucka]

Exactly spud. Where is it written that police must be better than the rest of us humans?

The point I was making when originally posting this is that anyone can make mistakes. At least the superintendent had the balls to take the ticket, pay up and shut up.

Unlike the ex-commissioner Hitcher referred to.
The cop at the time of that incident was pretty much a newly graduated constable. I've never met him but I'm told he still hasn't had to buy his own beer since the incident led to the resignation of the commisioner.

[spudchucka]

It's slightly suspicious that a minor speeding infringement made the news.
I wonder who leaked it?
So what if they used it to gain a little PR. If it was swept under the carpet or covered up in some way then they would cop endless flak over it. Its better to be up front from the start.

[pete376403]

I well remember the comparatively recent case of a Police Commissioner and his bit of skirt who got stopped by a young Constable who allegedly "forgot" to breathtest said Commissioner when confronted. The Commissioner in question shortly afterwards became an ex-Commissioner...The constable had no reason to test the guy, the woman was driving. My (then) next door neighbour was an ex cop, who said that, when the constable went to test the woman, he was allegedly told by the guy (can't remember his name) "that won't be necessary". THAT is what the fuss was about, and rightly so, too. He should have shut up and stayed in the car.

[Big Dog]

my faith in the NZ Police just went up a notch.
If you want my faith to improve you will need to start ticketing all the police cars who park illegaly for "personal" reasons eg to get lunch, go to the bank etc.

[Indo]

It's slightly suspicious that a minor speeding infringement made the news.
I wonder who leaked it?

To someone like you though, if it didn't make the news, it would be

POLICE SPEED TOO2222, POLICE COVERUP, CORRUPTION REIGNS!!!!, ONE LAW FOR SOME!$#% RAHHHH!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Balrog]

----------------

[Indo]

That said, i very much doubt it was delibrately leaked by the 'high' ups in the Police to show that they are applying the law equally. More likely someone with a wee chip, heard about it and seized the oppurtunity.

If your gonna be as outspoken as Lammas is about speeding then you really do have to make sure your actions, equal your words. Its not a good look otherwise.

[Lou Girardin]

To someone like you though, if it didn't make the news, it would be

POLICE SPEED TOO2222, POLICE COVERUP, CORRUPTION REIGNS!!!!, ONE LAW FOR SOME!$#% RAHHHH!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You'll note that I didn't start this thread or make any comment as to the incident itself.
But, I will say that the Police do have to be better than everyone else.

They enforce the law.

[riffer]

If you want my faith to improve you will need to start ticketing all the police cars who park illegaly for "personal" reasons eg to get lunch, go to the bank etc. I used to work in an office on Victoria St, in Wellington, just opposite Farmers. Almost every day, around 10.00-10.25 we used to get a General Purpose Police car come flying up Victoria Street, doing at least 80 (50km/hr zone) to go on to the motorway via Terrace Tunnel. I would add, that the lights were always on and the siren was always going.

At first we didn't really notice it, but after a few months it happened so often (as it coincided with morning tea time) that we started keeping a note book. We came up with a joke about it being the morning tea sausage roll run.

But seriously, why would this have happened so often? It worked out (from memory) that it happened on average 3-4 times a week, within that 25 minute time period.

[Lou Girardin]

There was a story in yesterday's Herald about there seeming to be a "dob in a cop" campaign in the Waikato. Apparently, 3 cops have been reported by members of the public for minor naughtiness while on duty.
The area Commander was asking for tolerance saying, 'Police are only human, we make mistakes too".
I agree totally, in fact they should extend that tolerance to us as well.

[scumdog]

There was a story in yesterday's Herald about there seeming to be a "dob in a cop" campaign in the Waikato. Apparently, 3 cops have been reported by members of the public for minor naughtiness while on duty.
The area Commander was asking for tolerance saying, 'Police are only human, we make mistakes too".
I agree totally, in fact they should extend that tolerance to us as well.

They do, otherwise the Courts would be even fuller and the ticket-books even emptier :niceone:

[Mongoose]

There was a story in yesterday's Herald about there seeming to be a "dob in a cop" campaign in the Waikato. Apparently, 3 cops have been reported by members of the public for minor naughtiness while on duty.
The area Commander was asking for tolerance saying, 'Police are only human, we make mistakes too".
I agree totally, in fact they should extend that tolerance to us as well.


Damn straght Lou, but the start of the threrad was that some one was caught, stuck his hand up and paid with no complaints which goes against the norm on here. As I say, "You know the rules, play the game so caint complain" :sly:

[Lou Girardin]

Damn straght Lou, but the start of the threrad was that some one was caught, stuck his hand up and paid with no complaints which goes against the norm on here. As I say, "You know the rules, play the game so caint complain" :sly:

You're agreeing with me! Bugger, I'm slipping.
Or mellowing in my old age.

[airplane]

Watching a police car cruise (no lights, no hurry) down a bus lane in Lambton Quay on Saturday, I was tempted to wonder why, what would be the consequence if I went in the same lane for my own purposes. I find the whole police (LTSA) attitude to raod management sick making. It reflects so badly on the mostly great bunch of police and, doubtless, on the sensible cops doing the traffic enforcement.

[marty]

there's always a 'dob a cop' mentailty going on - look at it in here. if it doesn't go to the station, i certainly gets bandied about by people observing cops' behaviour. there are may occasions when cops are going to a job, which doesn't need lights and siren, but needs some sort of quicker response - take a person who hasn't seen their neighbour for a couple of days and the house is locked up, or just a simple sudden death - if YOU were waiting for the cops and someone had died in your house, would you rather they waited in the traffic? they certainly can't justify blue lighting it, so what do they do? what if you had been burgled, and had to go to work, or were really distraught - same deal - can't blue light to it, but would you be happier knowing that the cops on their way were sitting in the motorway observing all the rules?

well maybe lou would.

[spudchucka]

Most folks have no idea what cops are doing on a daily basis. This is demonstrated by the opinion people have that cops are just cruising around looking for doughnut shops, (which in itself is dumb because thats a Seppo thing anyway).

The fact is that cops are going from job to job all day pretty much everyday. Historic burgs and other matters are backed up waiting for attendance then you get called away to deal with Juvy shoplifters, someone dies, someone tries to kill themselves, you come across a mentally impaired person requiring help etc etc. All these things require police attendance, some are urgent and require lights and sirens, others require a quick response but don't justify the use of lights and sirens.

If you see a cop car doing something you consider wrong just remember that there is a very good chance that the cops in that car are very likely on their way to help someone that is in need.

[Mongoose]

If you see a cop car doing something you consider wrong just remember that there is a very good chance that the cops in that car are very likely on their way to help someone that is in need.[/QUOTE]

Or just a slacker that can not justify his actions? They do exist Spud.

[spudchucka]

Or just a slacker that can not justify his actions? They do exist Spud.
Not saying they don't!! Just saying that folks should consider all possibilities before pointing the finger.

[Bandito]

idiots like this make it harder for the rest of the cops.
as if it isn't bad enough that they are seen as being 'overzealous revenue collectors' now they get to add 'hypocrite' to the list.
At least the revenue collecting system does not descriminate this time good to see!!!

[Big Dog]

If you see a cop car doing something you consider wrong just remember that there is a very good chance that the cops in that car are very likely on their way to help someone that is in need.
How does parking illegally to get subway help the greater good?

[scumdog]

How does parking illegally to get subway help the greater good?

If you expect cops to get pinged for rat-shit stuff then expect yourself to do so also, - sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, - and it goes both ways. :Pokey:

[Mongoose]

How does parking illegally to get subway help the greater good?


A hungry cop does not on his work have his mind.
Actually no one can be expected to act/think to their best potential if the are hungry. :scooter:

[Mongoose]

If you expect cops to get pinged for rat-shit stuff then expect yourself to do so also, - sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, - and it goes both ways. :Pokey:


Hell no, what is good for the goose can be farkin disasterous for the gander!! :buggerd:

[Big Dog]

If you expect cops to get pinged for rat-shit stuff then expect yourself to do so also, - sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, - and it goes both ways. :Pokey:
I don't expect for them to get ticketed every time. But if they do it why can't I?

I expect no more from the police than they expect from me.

I give them respect and expect it in return.
I obey the law unless, it is less dangerous to break it.
I hate being pulled for speeding 110ish when other people are going faster but not on bikes, just because the policeman in question wants to know about riding cos "I've always wanted to give it a go"
Other than speed infringements I have never had occasion to be on the wrong side of the law.

The above may sound churlish to some, but is an abuse of power by those who should be setting an example.

Worst case in point I have seen a citizen removed from subway to move their illegally parked car so the police could double park and push in at the front of a long line.
This is abuse of power.

I personally see nothing wrong with the occassional forgotten indication, dangerous lane change or even 120km's. But I have a major bone to pick about deliberate law breaking.

[spudchucka]

How does parking illegally to get subway help the greater good?
I'm not suggesting they never do wrong, just that a lot of the stuff people moan about is trivial and that there is almost always a bigger picture.

The situation you describe in Subway is almost unbelievable but I'll take you on your word and am happy to say that that sort of thing should never happen.

[Lou Girardin]

I'm not suggesting they never do wrong, just that a lot of the stuff people moan about is trivial and that there is almost always a bigger picture.
The situation you describe in Subway is almost unbelievable but I'll take you on your word and am happy to say that that sort of thing should never happen.

I'd like to know more about this 'bigger picture".
What was the 'bigger picture' when I followed a cop at 140+ km/h for the length of the Kaimais Rd, or the car load of cops doing 150+ through the Bombays or even the cop doing 60 in a temp 30 zone on Gt South Rd
And no, they were not on a job.
Is this 'bigger picture' a visual "do as I say, not as I do"?

[Ghost Lemur]

Q for spud, Marty, etc...

Just a quick side question on the topic of lights and sirens. What is the protocol as far as there usage? I see you both make comments to sometimes not being able to justify using them. Does that mean that you actually have to justify it every time you use them? How is that done? What can be the concequences if you use them wrongly.

I was always under the uninformed position that you were to just use them if you were doing something other motorists can not (ie running reds, speeding, maybe using a bus lane would fit in there), and therefore if you were not using them you were under the same obligations as everyone else to abide by the rules.

I think this view is why so many look at a cop car "breaking the law" without lights and sirens and complain.

[spudchucka]

Q for spud, Marty, etc...

Just a quick side question on the topic of lights and sirens. What is the protocol as far as there usage? I see you both make comments to sometimes not being able to justify using them. Does that mean that you actually have to justify it every time you use them? How is that done? What can be the concequences if you use them wrongly.

I was always under the uninformed position that you were to just use them if you were doing something other motorists can not (ie running reds, speeding, maybe using a bus lane would fit in there), and therefore if you were not using them you were under the same obligations as everyone else to abide by the rules.

I think this view is why so many look at a cop car "breaking the law" without lights and sirens and complain.

Its the drivers call if they use lights & sirens and the type of job you are responding to will determine whether they are justified. Anything involving risk to persons or property will justify lights & sirens. Responding to a shoplifter being held by security is still urgent but doesn't really justify using lights & sirens. You have to remember that using these warning devices can cause distraction to other drivers and I have seen people do some really crazy stuff when the flashing lights and wailing sirens come up behind them.

Cops will break the rules going to these less urgent jobs because they don't want the bad guys to get away or for people to sit for ages waiting for police to turn up when they are distressed. By rights they shouldn't do it but they do, each for their own reasons.

[spudchucka]

I'd like to know more about this 'bigger picture".
What was the 'bigger picture' when I followed a cop at 140+ km/h for the length of the Kaimais Rd, or the car load of cops doing 150+ through the Bombays or even the cop doing 60 in a temp 30 zone on Gt South Rd
And no, they were not on a job.
Is this 'bigger picture' a visual "do as I say, not as I do"?
You aren't one of these sick bastards with scanners that follow the cops around like a little groupie are ya??

[scumdog]

Spudchuska, you said a mouthful, you aun't lived until you've seen someone spear off the road because they were too busy staring at the "pretty blue $ red lights" :bleh:

There seems to be a certain section of this site that seems to be haunted by tickets/bad cops/blue and red lights/unfair application of speed enforcement etc.

I feel deprived, I never get stopped/ticketed/harrassed or whatever - I ain't claiming diplomatic immunity either as my riding "associates" will vouch for. How come all you other "victims" get picked on so much? maybe it's Karma eh? No doubt Zed will have an explanation for it eh? :yes:

[Da Bird]

I'd like to know more about this 'bigger picture".
What was the 'bigger picture' when I followed a cop at 140+ km/h for the length of the Kaimais Rd...
Lou, if you give me your rego and time and date of above "offence" I'm sure we could come to some arrangement about the "bigger picture" ... (maybe they were doing a speed check on YOU!) :bye:

[Mongoose]

You're agreeing with me! Bugger, I'm slipping.
Or mellowing in my old age.

Does that mean the end to any complaits if you or your *friends*(Big assumption here) get a ticket for speeding? :bash: Has it finally got thru to you that it is all part of the game?

[spudchucka]

There seems to be a certain section of this site that seems to be haunted by tickets/bad cops/blue and red lights/unfair application of speed enforcement etc.
I don't know if the term "self fulfilling prophecy" has ever been suggested as a reason why certain people continually run foul of the law.

[marty]

fire and ambos are legislatively restricted - if they want to break the rules, the have to use lights and siren. police have legilative defence if they can justify the rule breaking in the 'course of their duty'. there have been cops try (and succeed) getting off tickets cause they're speeding on the way to court/promotion exams/get search warrants signed/delivering files/picking up people from the airport.....

[marty]

not that i'm speaking from experience.....:innocent:

[Lou Girardin]

Lou, if you give me your rego and time and date of above "offence" I'm sure we could come to some arrangement about the "bigger picture" ... (maybe they were doing a speed check on YOU!) :bye:

No, they passed me on all three occasions. And no, I didn't make an official complaint, but I did find out the circumstances.
Just like you Scumdog, I don't get lots of tickets or 'picked on' either.
You don't need to be a victim of current enforcement policies to be offended by them.