Jihad!!!

[SARGE]

Pope Benedict XVI came under a hail of criticism from the Islamic world Friday for comments he made earlier in the week regarding the Prophet Mohammed and the Muslim faith, in some cities provoking street protests.
A growing chorus of Muslim leaders have called on the pope to apologize for the remarks he made in a speech in Germany on Tuesday when he used the terms "jihad" and "holy war."
Friday, Muslim protesters shouted slogans against the pontiff at a rally in Jammu, India.
A Vatican statement said Benedict was not trying offend Muslims with his remarks.
"It was certainly not the intention of the Holy Father to ... offend the sensibilities of Muslim faithful," said Federico Lombardi, the Vatican press officer.
In response to the pope's speech, Pakistan's National Assembly -- parliament's lower house -- unanimously passed a resolution on Friday condemning his remarks.
"It was underlined that at a time when there was an acute need for promoting inter-faith harmony such remarks, regardless of the context, were very unfortunate," said a statement from Pakistan's Foreign Affairs Ministry.
In Cairo Friday, about 100 demonstrators gathered in an anti-Vatican protest outside the capital's al-Azhar mosque.
Meanwhile, a youth center run by the Greek Orthodox church in the Gaza Strip was slightly damaged by a small explosion on Friday, witnesses told Reuters.
It was unclear if the blast was connected to the pope's comments.
During his address at the University of Regensburg on Tuesday, Benedict quoted 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus.
"God," the emperor, as the pope quoted, said, "is not pleased by blood -- and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature."
A transcript of the pope's remarks obtained by The Associated Press television network reads: "In the seventh (sura, or chapter of the Quran), the emperor comes to speak about jihad, holy war.
"The emperor certainly knew that Sura 2, 256, reads: 'No force in matters of faith'. It is one of the early suras, from a time -- as experts say -- in which Mohammed himself was still powerless and threatened.
"However, the emperor of course also knew the requirements about the holy war that were later formulated in the Quran. Without going into details like the handling of the owners of the scriptures, or non-believers, he (the emperor) turned to his interlocutors -- in a surprisingly brusque way -- with the central question after the relationship between religion and violence.
"He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'"
The Organization of the Islamic Conference, in a statement released Thursday, said it "regrets the quotations cited by the pope on the Life of the Honorable Prophet Mohammed, and what he referred to as 'spreading' Islam 'by the sword.'"
"The attribution of the spread of Islam around the world to the shedding of blood and violence, which is 'incompatible with the nature of God' is a complete distortion of the facts, which shows deep ignorance of Islam and Islamic history."
Muslim Brotherhood Chairman Mohammed Mahdi Akef also expressed anger over the pope's academic speech.
"The pope's statements come to add fuel to fire and trigger anger within the Muslim world and show that the West with its politicians and clerics are hostile to Islam."
Condemnation also came from Turkey where Benedict is scheduled to visit in November.
"His words are extremely regrettable, worrying and unfortunate in terms of the Christian world and common peace of humanity," the Anatolian state news agency quoted Ali Bardakoglu, the head of Ankara's Directorate General for Religious Affairs, as saying.
"I do not see any use in somebody visiting the Islamic world who thinks in this way about the holy prophet of Islam."
In Syria, the grand mufti, the country's top Sunni Muslim religious authority, sent a letter to the pope saying he feared the pontiff's comments on Islam would worsen interfaith relations
In Gaza City, Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya issued a condemnation, saying Benedict's remarks "are not true and defamed the essence of this holy religion and it defamed the history of the Islam."

Later, thousands of Palestinians marched in Gaza, demanding an apology.
In Lebanon, the country's most senior Shiite Muslim cleric demanded the pope personally apologize for insulting Islam.
"We do not accept the apology through Vatican channels ... and ask him (Benedict) to offer a personal apology -- not through his officials -- to Muslims for this false reading (of Islam)," Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah told worshippers.


now call me silly.. but i think we have just seen the first shot fired in a REAL holy war .. the rags are already pitching a fit and burning the Pope in effigy and blowing up catholic church youth centers ..

how long before a 747 meets the Vatican walls? all the fancy bodyguards and Pope-Mobiles wont stop a jumbo jet or Anti-Tank rocket..

now if the Pope gets targeted.. or St. Peters Square gets hit with Suicide bombers during one of the huge public masses ..how leinient do you think the Catholic Church will be?? will they 'turn the other cheek'? or will they unleash 2000 years of preparation on the Islamic world? they did it 1000 years ago in a little swatch of history called the "Crusades"

( dont think for a second that the Catholic Church, the planets biggest corperation, does not have the ways or means to unleash the mother of all Holy Wars.. the UN/ NATO would have a real hard time containing them..)


could this be the beginning of the end to Organized Religion?

[Hitcher]

Pope Benedict was a very silly boy.

Fortunately the Holy See doesn't have armed forces.

[Finn]

Why there will never be peace in the middle east...

I almost fell off the couch with laughter when watching the TV News last night. As many will have seen, some Muslims have been offended by the Pope's remarks about Islam, where he quoted a former Pope as basically saying it is evil to convert people by the sword - ie he was speaking out against violence.

Now what was hilarious wasn't even the irony that violent protests and death threats are the response to a speech against violence. No it was the banners and chants.

You see TV news reported that thousands filed into the straeets to chant "Death to Israel, Death to the USA".

Yes that is right. The Pope offends Muslims, and the response is "Death to Israel"!!! I know they have these wacky conspiracy theories that the Jews control most things, but do they really think the Jews control the Roman Catholic Church???

And death to the USA?? I could understand Death to Italy or even Death to Germany, but Death to the USA because of what a German Pope says?

After spending several minutes laughing at the TV screen, I finally realised there will never ever be peace in the Middle East. "Death to Israel" is just the knee-jerk chant and solution to every problem.

Fuckin dumbass ragheads.

[SARGE]

Pope Benedict was a very silly boy.

Fortunately the Holy See doesn't have armed forces.

yea .. they didnt have them in the 11th century either ... :innocent:

[Big Dave]

Large island, middle of vast ocean, right over on the bottom right of the map where nobody notices.

WHEW!

[SARGE]

Large island, middle of vast ocean, right over on the bottom right of the map where nobody notices.

WHEW!

no Dave .. they notice ..

they send thier families here for just that very reason

OFFTOPIC - right on .. Pink Floyd - the Wall is on TCM right now ..

[idb]

Pope Benedict was a very silly boy.

Fortunately the Holy See doesn't have armed forces.

What about those guards in the cute clown suits with the puffy pants and the..............oh, I see what you mean.

I read today that papal watchers have been waiting for this guy to show his teeth, apparently he was J.P.'s bovver boy.

[Biff]

Fortunately the Holy See doesn't have armed forces.

He's got some Swiss cheese with sharp spikes though.

Oooh - those trousers.

[idb]

yea .. they didnt have them in the 11th century either ... :innocent:

But they were able to promise all sorts of cool stuff to anyone that wanted to fight for them in those days, like a guaranteed place in heaven and all the plunder they could carry.

Maybe if they promised holy condoms?

[John Banks]

Good on the Muslims, I say. It can be tricky business, this suicide bombing, but at least they're trying - they've got it half right. Hopefully one day they'll learn how to blow themselves up without harming anyone sane and we'll all be happy.

[SARGE]

What about those guards in the cute clown suits with the puffy pants and the..............oh, I see what you mean.


THESE guys?? (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/swiss_guard/index.htm)


even i would think twice about screwing with one..

[idb]

THESE guys?? (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/swiss_guard/index.htm)


even i would think twice about screwing with one..

Yeah, you would have to be seriously tough to walk around like that outside the privacy of your own home.

[Ixion]

Now what was hilarious wasn't even the irony that violent protests and death threats are the response to a speech against violence. No it was the banners and chants.

You see TV news reported that thousands filed into the straeets to chant "Death to Israel, Death to the USA".

Yes that is right. The Pope offends Muslims, and the response is "Death to Israel"!!! I know they have these wacky conspiracy theories that the Jews control most things, but do they really think the Jews control the Roman Catholic Church???

And death to the USA?? I could understand Death to Italy or even Death to Germany, but Death to the USA because of what a German Pope says?

After spending several minutes laughing at the TV screen, I finally realised there will never ever be peace in the Middle East. "Death to Israel" is just the knee-jerk chant and solution to every problem.

Fuckin dumbass ragheads.

Yeah. Sort of like when Osama bin Laden (a Saudi extremist group) blows up a lot of Yanks and the Yanks all start chanting "Death to the Saddam Hussein (President of Iraq)" and beating up on local Pakistanis and Turks

[SARGE]

Yeah. Sort of like when Osama bin Laden (a Saudi extremist group) blows up a lot of Yanks and the Yanks all start chanting "Death to the Saddam Hussein (President of Iraq)" and beating up on local Pakistanis and Turks



i never beat up on a Paki or Turk that didnt personally deserve it ..

[SARGE]

Yeah, you would have to be seriously tough to walk around like that outside the privacy of your own home.

WORD!!!


10 whatever ...

[idb]

Yeah. Sort of like when Osama bin Laden (a Saudi extremist group) blows up a lot of Yanks and the Yanks all start chanting "Death to the Saddam Hussein (President of Iraq)" and beating up on local Pakistanis and Turks

We've got a long-time resident Sikh down here who has been abused in the street!!!

[SARGE]

We've got a long-time resident Sikh down here who has been abused in the street!!!

fuck... only one ??

need any more? .. we got them to spare up here ..

[Big Dave]

.. Pink Floyd - the Wall is on TCM right now ..

Chelsea V Liverpool at 11.30!
You'll never walk alone.

[Ixion]

Not a wise idea , tangling with the Sikhs. They are FARKIN tough fighters. If THOSE guys ever get into terrorism, Heaven help us (I assume everybody realises that Sikhs are NOT Muslims.And the men at any rate may readily be distinguished by the turban and the kara, or iron bangle worn on the wrist)

EDIT Actually I think the women wear the kara also.The Sikh religion is strongly equalitarian , women being asigned an equal place to men/

[SARGE]

Chelsea V Liverpool at 11.30!
You'll never walk alone.

is that Women's Wrestling?

[Big Dave]

is that Women's Wrestling?

Diving. But it's one worth watching and it's going to be a very long season for us Packer fans.

Think I'll take in some kiss and tell to make up for it.

[SwanTiger]

That Pope has evil eyes and I do not like him and to say that shit just confirms that he has ill thoughts.

Your feelings become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions.

[SARGE]

it's going to be a very long season for us Packer fans.
.



WHO-DEY!!??

[oldrider]

fuck... only one ??

need any more? .. we got them to spare up here ..

No no, he means they have only one "street" in Arrowtown! :dodge: John.

[Mr. Peanut]

Not a wise idea , tangling with the Sikhs. They are FARKIN tough fighters. If THOSE guys ever get into terrorism, Heaven help us (I assume everybody realises that Sikhs are NOT Muslims.And the men at any rate may readily be distinguished by the turban and the kara, or iron bangle worn on the wrist)

EDIT Actually I think the women wear the kara also.The Sikh religion is strongly equalitarian , women being asigned an equal place to men/

I've asked you once, and I'll ask you again. Is there anything you DON'T know??

[SixPackBack]

Will we get 'missile cam' when the shit flies.

Best T.V veiwing by far.:rockon:

Oh, and Darwin I love you.

[Motu]

Conversion by the sword...hasn't the Pope heard of Cortez or Pizarro?

[Ixion]

Well, it worked for them. South America is massively Roman Catholic. And the Incas and Aztecs were wiped out

[Finn]

Yeah. Sort of like when Osama bin Laden (a Saudi extremist group) blows up a lot of Yanks and the Yanks all start chanting "Death to the Saddam Hussein (President of Iraq)" and beating up on local Pakistanis and Turks

Just as long as they are not completely wiped out. We need them for taxi drivers.

[McJim]

Ironic - more people have been killed in the name of religions whose corner stone is 'thou shalt not kill' than for any other single reason in history.

Heaven must be full of atheists coz we're the only sods that don't go around inciting wars!

Correct that - atheists and Bhuddists.

[Motu]

The Maori were lucky Vasco Da Gama just sailed on by - Maori would just be a word like Aztec and Inca,and we would all be speaking Portugese...and be Catholic....

[McJim]

The Maori were lucky Vasco Da Gama just sailed on by - Maori would just be a word like Aztec and Inca,and we would all be speaking Portugese...and be Catholic....

Yeah - but consider the babes in bikinis on the beach - Rio De Janeiro is fantastic!

[Finn]

The Maori were lucky Vasco Da Gama just sailed on by - Maori would just be a word like Aztec and Inca,and we would all be speaking Portugese...and be Catholic....

Stop it, you're teasing me.

[Squeak the Rat]

Does the Islamic faith also sanction child abuse, or is that just the catholic church with a track record of this?

[Finn]

Does the Islamic faith also sanction child abuse, or is that just the catholic church with a track record of this?

Yes it does. I overheard two muslims talking the other day. One said "Isn't it amazing how quickly kids blow up these days."

[dhunt]

Why there will never be peace in the middle east...

I almost fell off the couch with laughter when watching the TV News last night. As many will have seen, some Muslims have been offended by the Pope's remarks about Islam, where he quoted a former Pope as basically saying it is evil to convert people by the sword - ie he was speaking out against violence.

Now what was hilarious wasn't even the irony that violent protests and death threats are the response to a speech against violence. No it was the banners and chants.

You see TV news reported that thousands filed into the straeets to chant "Death to Israel, Death to the USA".

Yes that is right. The Pope offends Muslims, and the response is "Death to Israel"!!! I know they have these wacky conspiracy theories that the Jews control most things, but do they really think the Jews control the Roman Catholic Church???

And death to the USA?? I could understand Death to Italy or even Death to Germany, but Death to the USA because of what a German Pope says?

After spending several minutes laughing at the TV screen, I finally realised there will never ever be peace in the Middle East. "Death to Israel" is just the knee-jerk chant and solution to every problem.

Fuckin dumbass ragheads.
You learn it at a school.

Somebody said bad things about me - Death to Israel.
Somebody stole my camel - Death to Israel.

[SARGE]

Yes it does. I overheard two muslims talking the other day. One said "Isn't it amazing how quickly kids blow up these days."

i think they were the same ones i heard say..


" does this Bhurka make my bomb look big?"

[McJim]

Does the Islamic faith also sanction child abuse, or is that just the catholic church with a track record of this?

Nah - they take a different tack - you can rape a woman and then have her stoned to death for allowing you to rape her...oh and you get off free.

Very egalitarian is sharia law...so long as you happen to be a village elder.

Apparently they still have no facility for re-attaching hands after they discover wrongful convictions of theft either.

[terbang]

Why there will never be peace in the middle east...

I almost fell off the couch with laughter when watching the TV News last night. As many will have seen, some Muslims have been offended by the Pope's remarks about Islam, where he quoted a former Pope as basically saying it is evil to convert people by the sword - ie he was speaking out against violence.

Now what was hilarious wasn't even the irony that violent protests and death threats are the response to a speech against violence. No it was the banners and chants.

You see TV news reported that thousands filed into the straeets to chant "Death to Israel, Death to the USA".

Yes that is right. The Pope offends Muslims, and the response is "Death to Israel"!!! I know they have these wacky conspiracy theories that the Jews control most things, but do they really think the Jews control the Roman Catholic Church???

And death to the USA?? I could understand Death to Italy or even Death to Germany, but Death to the USA because of what a German Pope says?

After spending several minutes laughing at the TV screen, I finally realised there will never ever be peace in the Middle East. "Death to Israel" is just the knee-jerk chant and solution to every problem.

Fuckin dumbass ragheads.

Go back to being the Clown.


Yeah. Sort of like when Osama bin Laden (a Saudi extremist group) blows up a lot of Yanks and the Yanks all start chanting "Death to the Saddam Hussein (President of Iraq)" and beating up on local Pakistanis and Turks

Bling Bling

[Finn]

Go back to being the Clown.

Are you still upset with me peasant?

[jonbuoy]

The most worrying thing about these people is how excitable they are, doesn't take much to get them in the streets burning an effigy of the latest thing to have insulted them. They need to grow a thicker skin and chill out.

[WRT]

But they were able to promise all sorts of cool stuff to anyone that wanted to fight for them in those days, like a guaranteed place in heaven and all the plunder they could carry.

Maybe if they promised holy condoms?

Would you believe them? You're more likely to get holey condoms.

[SARGE]

i love the fact that the Pope didnt apologize for what he said.. he said ..im sorry for the REACTION"

basiclly .. hes sorry they are such thin skinned crybabies... :rockon:

[SPman]

Are you still upset with me peasant?
You have a peasant?

[Biff]

Teacher arrested Thu, 7 August 2006 08:47 NEW YORK -

A public school teacher was arrested today at John F. Kennedy
International Airport as he attempted to board a flight while in
possession of a ruler, a protractor, a set square, a slide rule, and a
calculator.

At a morning press conference, Attorney General John Ashcroft said he
believes the man is a member of the notorious Al-gebra movement. He did
not identify the man, who has been charged by the FBI with carrying
weapons of maths instruction.

"Al-gebra is a problem for us," Ashcroft said. "They desire solutions
by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in a search of
absolute value. They use secret code names like 'x' and 'y' and refer to
themselves as 'unknowns,' but we have determined they belong to a common
denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country.
As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, 'There are 3 sides to
every triangle.'

When asked to comment on the arrest, President Bush said, "If God had
wanted us to have better Weapons of Maths Instruction, He would have
given us more fingers and toes." White House aides told reporters they
could not recall a more intelligent or profound statement by the
president.

[Finn]

You have a peasant?

Not anymore. Through education, support and mentoring, I've turned them into productive birdies.

[kickingzebra]

Seems doomed to war which ever way we protract things.
We have all these fit excitable young men sitting around all day (on various countries welfare systems) dreaming of owning AK 47s.

Unlike our youth, at least they have aspirations!!

Yes, we can all point out the inadeqacies of religious documents etc, and yes, they do advocate peace. I somehow, thinking about it, doubt that the vast majority of death in wars is religiously motivated.

WW1 and 2, killed how many people? More than many of the wars prior put together, and (arguably) niether of those two biggest killers in the 20th century were religiously motivated. Niether was Vietnam, or Korea, or Iraq... Theres an emerging pattern here. The motivation for the most effective wars (at killing people) in the last 150 odd years, has been anything but religious.

I dare anyone to work it out on a percentage basis. Might even do it myself If I can be bothered.

[Hitcher]

To keep this thread running as originally envisaged, it should confine itself to a discussion around the utterances of Pope Benedict. Otherwise it will find itself merged with either the Israel thread or, god forbid, the Scottish thread.

You choose.

[Squeak the Rat]

I wonder how Pope Benedict likes his eggs......


[sorry couldn't resist]

[The Pastor]

You could buy an ak47 in dagahole for 400 bucks a while back.

[terbang]

Are you still upset with me peasant?

Not at all there Bantam Rooster.

[padre]

Are we all agreed KB should send a statement to the Vatican condemning Eggs Benedict for his aggressive style of leading the catholic masses. If thou shalt not converteth with the sword what be the better instrument. How are muslims to better conduct themselves. And what should muhammed have said.
Benny has fair got sum splaining ta do.

[terbang]

Benny has fair got sum splaining ta do.

Especially when he has a look back into his own History books..!



The idea of the crusade corresponds to a political conception which was realized in Christendom only from the eleventh to the fifteenth century; this supposes a union of all peoples and sovereigns under the direction of the popes. All crusades were announced by preaching. After pronouncing a solemn vow, each warrior received a cross from the hands of the pope or his legates, and was thenceforth considered a soldier of the Church. Crusaders were also granted indulgences and temporal privileges, such as exemption from civil jurisdiction, inviolability of persons or lands, etc. Of all these wars undertaken in the name of Christendom, the most important were the Eastern Crusades.

[Joni]

No - Padre I think you should rather speak for yourself than KB as an entirety.

[acewheelie]

Also I seem to recall seeing somewhere that the current pope was a foot soldier in the fuhrers little shin dig back in the thirties/ forties.....

I think they may need to find a new one, probably should start looking now, coz I don't think this one will be around too long!

[ManDownUnder]

Are we all agreed KB should send a statement to the Vatican condemning Eggs Benedict for his aggressive style of leading the catholic masses. If thou shalt not converteth with the sword what be the better instrument. How are muslims to better conduct themselves. And what should muhammed have said.
Benny has fair got sum splaining ta do.

No.

I don't care what he said about whom and when... and not being a Muslim or Catholic person, I don't see what entitlement I have to get ionvolved in their problems, politcal or otherwise.

The Pope doesn't owe me an explanation, but he'd beter watch his back if any fundamentalists decide to go postal.

[kickingzebra]

I like that viewpoint!

How do we choose what we do make our problems though?
Truth being so subjective and all. So far the pope seems to be a well mannered intelligent person. I'm not catholic, so he holds no special place in my heart, but he is a figure a whole lot of people look up to, and there is no guarantee that the muslim world will stop and think, wait, it is only the pope that said this, not the whole of Catholicism. It's also unlikely that the ones protesting would draw a line between catholics, other christians, and those lucky enough to live in what could be deemed christian nations (US, NZ Aus, etc)

[John Banks]

The Pope doesn't owe me an explanation, but he'd beter watch his back if any fundamentalists decide to go postal.

Strike him down and another far more powerful will take his place.




Darth Vader for pope.

[acewheelie]

Strike him down and another far more powerful will take his place.




Darth Vader for pope.

Darth Vader for our next Prime Minister!

The Emperor can be president

[Big Dave]

Are we all agreed KB should send a statement

No, We are not agreed.

[Biff]

No, We are not agreed.

Agreed.....

[ManDownUnder]

Agreed.....


Not sure - can I have a beer or 15 to think it over?

[SARGE]

Also I seem to recall seeing somewhere that the current pope was a foot soldier in the fuhrers little shin dig back in the thirties/ forties.....

I think they may need to find a new one, probably should start looking now, coz I don't think this one will be around too long!



Benedict was, by his own admission, a member of the Hitler Youth..BUT.. ( and this is a BIG but..)



In December of 1936, Hitler Youth membership stood at just over 5 million. That same month, the Hitler Youth became obligatory and membership was required by law (Gesetz über die Hitlerjugend). This obligation was affirmed in 1939 with the Jugenddienstpflicht. Membership could be enforced even against the will of the parents. From that point, most of Germany's teenagers were incorporated into the Hitler Youth, and by 1940, the total membership reached eight million. Later war figures are difficult to calculate, since massive conscription efforts and a general call-up of boys as young as ten years old meant that virtually every young male in Germany was, in some way, connected to the Hitler Youth.


like it or not ...

[Paul in NZ]

They are all a bunch of friggin' nutters.

A man in a dress and funny hat that still thinks it's 1647 and heads the worlds largest pedophile ring makes an obsucure historical point about the other team and a whole lot of other guys in dresses that live in places where razor blades are a mystery and they probably don't even know what a Pope is but are absolutely sure that it IS 1647 have a hissy fit about being called violent so they go shoot an old nun and let off a few bombs to prove they are not violent at all...

Fark me....

Religion eh! Mans hope of salvation?

[Damon]

I don't disagree with what the pope said, he was just quoting another guys observations from hundreds of years ago, and merely stating that over those hundreds of years it's hard to see how far their religion has evolved? just look at the reaction "don't say I'm violent, take it back or I'll kill some one"... it was a little more polite in NZ but NZ is hardly the voice of Islam.

As for public apology, fuck that, I don't see Muslims crying for apology when "rogue" Islamic countries call for the death of other nations? it's good enough for Muslims to call for Jihad but it's not good enough for Catholics to observe that Muslims are a little violent?

(sort of off topic but)

Has anyone seen whats happening in Sudan at the moment? here's what i get when i look up "sudan national religion" in google - "Religion: Sunni Muslim 70% (in north), indigenous beliefs 25%, Christian 5% (mostly in south and Khartoum)", only people openly protesting the killing there seem to be non-muslim, the people who are running the country have declined aid?!?

[dawnrazor]

Okay I don't like the pope, I don't like the idea of A pope - as far as I'm concerned they are all a bunch of shifty no good cunts, but this one seems to be the most irresponsible one to come along in a while.

Maybe he felt the catholic church wasn't getting enough headlines in the media and the flock might start converting to islam or something.

What a retarded thing to say, its almost like we now have a george W in the vatican as well as the white house.

With the combined weight of the assine statements they both make we'll be truly fucked up the ying-yang by christmas

Why would you specfically say something that you know would inflame the islamic world, its just taunting - practically war mongering - Oh look theres a volitle situation, lets throw some petrol on it and see what happens.

It just doesn't strike me as being particularly Christian, but perhaps the pope is above such things.

***I'm not terribly keen on islamic clerics either, in fact most religious leaders are deeply suspicious people - with the POSSIBLE exception of the dalia lama***

[Edbear]

now call me silly..



I'd never do that, you're bigger than me.




could this be the beginning of the end to Organized Religion?



Now, you haven't been reading Rev. chapters 17 and 18 have you..?

[Lou Girardin]

yea .. they didnt have them in the 11th century either ... :innocent:

Oh yes they did.

[oldrider]

Okay I don't like the pope, I don't like the idea of A pope - as far as I'm concerned they are all a bunch of shifty no good cunts, but this one seems to be the most irresponsible one to come along in a while.

Maybe he felt the catholic church wasn't getting enough headlines in the media and the flock might start converting to islam or something.

What a retarded thing to say, its almost like we now have a george W in the vatican as well as the white house.

With the combined weight of the assine statements they both make we'll be truly fucked up the ying-yang by christmas

Why would you specfically say something that you know would inflame the islamic world, its just taunting - practically war mongering - Oh look theres a volitle situation, lets throw some petrol on it and see what happens.

It just doesn't strike me as being particularly Christian, but perhaps the pope is above such things.

***I'm not terribly keen on islamic clerics either, in fact most religious leaders are deeply suspicious people - with the POSSIBLE exception of the dalia lama***

Dawnrazor

I hear you and don't disagree with your sentiments "if" you are correct about what "he said" and "why" it was so inflammatory.

To be so condemning in your response you must be very clear on what it was that the Pope said, please share it with us so that we can be so positive in condemning him too. Seeking your help on this one, John.

[98tls]

i say GOOOTHE POPE....at least he has the nuts to call a spade a spade....these jihad in the name of moo whoever loving bastards think a great day out is blowing people up so they can piss off to the land of unlimited virgins/goats....the mary poppins attitude hasnt worked so far and never will...shame its to late to do anything about them know...but at least they should be spoken about and treated with the utter contempt they deserve

[SARGE]

Oh yes they did.

i was being fascicious Lou..

[Lou Girardin]

i was being fascicious Lou..

I thought you were a Republican.

[SARGE]

I thought you were a Republican.

hell no.. independent

[Paul in NZ]

There was an interesting article in the dom this morning on this subject. Worth seeking out....

[Swoop]

Militants vow war as Vatican tries to calm Pope row

1.00pm Tuesday September 19, 2006

VATICAN CITY - Al Qaeda militants in Iraq vowed war on "worshippers of the cross" and protesters burned a papal effigy on Monday over Pope Benedict's comments on Islam, while Western churchmen and statesmen tried to calm passions.

Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei joined a chorus of Muslim criticism of the head of the world's 1.1 billion Roman Catholics, calling the Pope's remarks "the latest chain of the crusade against Islam started by America's (George W) Bush".

The Pontiff said on Sunday he was deeply sorry Muslims had been offended by his use of a medieval quotation on Islam and holy war. But he stopped short of retracting a speech seen as portraying Islam as a religion tainted by violence.

While some Muslims were mollified by his explanation for the speech made in Germany last Tuesday, others remained furious.

"We tell the worshipper of the cross (the Pope) that you and the West will be defeated, as is the case in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya," said a web statement by the Mujahideen Shura Council, an umbrella group led by Iraq's branch of al Qaeda.

"We shall break the cross and spill the wine," said the statement, posted on Sunday on an internet site often used by al Qaeda and other militant groups.

In Iraq's southern city of Basra, up to 150 demonstrators chanted slogans and burned a white effigy of the Pope.

"No to aggression!", "We gagged the Pope!", they chanted in front of the governor's office in the Shi'ite city.

In Egypt a parliamentary committee called for the expulsion of the Vatican envoy if the Pope did not apologise and in Kuwait Muslim clerics said his Sunday address "does not amount to an apology because he said Muslims had misunderstood his speech".

"He must declare frankly he made a mistake and must pledge not to repeat such false accusations against Islam," they said.

Criticisms were also made by Muslims in the United States, China, Indonesia, and by Chechen and Azeri Muslims.

With some clerics calling it the start of a new Christian crusade against Islam, the Vatican has instructed its envoys in Muslim countries to explain Pope Benedict's words on Islam.

The Pope had referred to criticism of the Prophet Mohammad by 14th century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus, who said everything the Prophet brought was evil "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached".

But he said on Sunday this was not his view and he favoured frank dialogue with Islam. His new Secretary of State, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, said Holy See nuncios (ambassadors) in Muslim countries would visit government and religious leaders.

The European Commission called for Pope Benedict's remarks not to be "deliberately taken out of context" and for freedom of speech to be respected. French President Jacques Chirac refused to criticise him, but called for a more diplomatic language.

"It is not my role or my intention to comment on the Pope's statements. I simply want to say, on a general level ... that we must avoid anything that excites tensions between peoples or between religions," Chirac said on Europe 1 radio.

"We must avoid making any link between Islam, which is a great, respected and respectable religion, and radical Islamism, which is a totally different activity and one of a political nature," Chirac added.

The head of the world's Anglican church, Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, defended Benedict.

"The Pope has already issued an apology and I think his views on this need to be judged against his entire record, where he has spoken very positively about dialogue," said Williams, the spiritual leader of 77 million Anglicans worldwide.

Questions had been raised on whether a papal visit to Turkey in November could go ahead, but Ankara, while calling his remarks "ugly", said there were no plans to call it off.

In Somalia, an Italian nun was killed on Sunday in an attack one Islamist source said could be linked to the dispute. The Vatican said it hoped the killing was "an isolated event".

The Pope said on Sunday that he might elaborate on the crisis on Wednesday, when he gives a regular public audience at St Peter's in the Vatican before large crowds of pilgrims.

In the United States, the Council of Islamic Organisations of Greater Chicago which represents 400,000 Muslims in the area said that from Sunday's speech it "does not appear the Pope is distancing himself from his Tuesday statement".

It urged the Pope to grasp a "a great opportunity to use words of reconciliation and we hope he will do so soon".- REUTERS

[SARGE]

oh yea ... here we go.... :ar15:

[John Banks]

"We're not violent, and we'll prove it by burning effigys and killing a nun."

Yes, that's just the ticket.

[Pathos]

I'm a Catholic myself and I'm pretty happy with how the establishment has reacted, makes me happy there are rational people at the top. People saying that it should never have been said in the first place are being rediculous, the church should not change its message because It might hurt feelings.

I bet the media and extremist leaders on both sides are causing as much noise as possible for whatever reasons.

Really would like to hear more opinions from muslim groups in westernised countries. Are there any groups that accept the Pope as quoting in the context he attempted to portray ?

[MD]

Dawnrazor

I hear you and don't disagree with your sentiments "if" you are correct about what "he said" and "why" it was so inflammatory.

To be so condemning in your response you must be very clear on what it was that the Pope said, please share it with us so that we can be so positive in condemning him too. Seeking your help on this one, John.

Agreed Oldrider. I think dawnrazor has missed the point. The point being, why should non-Muslims have to live under censorship for fear of violent reprisal if they say anything about lslam that might offend their delicate feelings? If Muslims tell us we must agree that the world is flat and the moon made of cheese, should we agree for fear they will kill us for disputing their ideas? I think not.
It would be laughable, the stupidity and hypocrisy of their violent threats/actions when someone repeated what someone else once said - that Muslims have used violence to spread their religion. If only it wasn't really happening.

[Paul in NZ]

If Muslims tell us we must agree that the world is flat and the moon made of cheese, should we agree for fear they will kill us for disputing their ideas? I think not.
It would be laughable, the stupidity and hypocrisy of their violent threats/actions when someone repeated what someone else once said - that Muslims have used violence to spread their religion. If only it wasn't really happening.

In fact - nearly all religions use threats, intimidation and violence to spread their religions, christianity certainly did until people like the Mormons and Seven Day Adventists discovered the door to door vacuum salesman type technique - which is still a form of bullying - join us or fry in hell...

All the major religions try and use influence to stiffle 'difficult' questions as well. It's one of the reasons the seperation of state and religion is just so important. Without it, religions cannot be quized on their less than sparkly white practises and it's just one of the reasons mr Bush and his whacky god botherers worry me..

[Swoop]

...until people like the Mormons and Seven Day Adventists discovered the door to door vacuum salesman type technique....

A superb form of entertainment!
Just a shame they do not come around more often really...:whistle:

[Paul in NZ]

A superb form of entertainment!
Just a shame they do not come around more often really...:whistle:

But very successful. The growth of churches into the pacific has a lot to do with the way they sell themselves. There is a lot of money involved here.

Paul N

[Swoop]

There is a lot of money involved here.

Correct. And it's all tax free....

[35tickets]

Fucking towel heads!

August 6 1945 first A bomb dropped on Hiroshima, August 9 second A bomb on Nagasaki. These weapons were heralded at the time as the end of the second world war.

60 years later and the new war against terrrorism.....where are all the A bombs? drop a few of those nastys and we'll see who not to fuck with!!

I don't care im angry man today.....i think i'd better go pay for some haha

[SARGE]

Fucking towel heads!

August 6 1945 first A bomb dropped on Hiroshima, August 9 second A bomb on Nagasaki. These weapons were heralded at the time as the end of the second world war.

60 years later and the new war against terrrorism.....where are all the A bombs? drop a few of those nastys and we'll see who not to fuck with!!

I don't care im angry man today.....i think i'd better go pay for some haha

the hippy fags would have a field day.. hell we cant even humilliate the bastard Jihadists in Abu Ghraib that we were trying to kill a week before..and .. end of the day .. what the fuck is the difference between taking some pix of naked Jihadist and beheading civillians and posting the vids on the net..?


who would YOU rather have in charge?

PC bullshit


put me in charge