60 Minutes tonight (18 September)

[Hitcher]

Could somebody please record this for me as a WMV or some other format that can be played on Windows Media Player. Not the whole thing, just the animal welfare item.

Please PM me if you can/have done this. I will be ever so grateful.

And I'd also value any impartial or otherwise feedback on the tone of this item and the impressions formed by watching it.

Many thanks folks!

[98tls]

disgusting....no, worse than that....call me a soft cock but Animals deserve better than that.Makes me want to rant but wont...as i say disgusting.

[Jantar]

I found that it higlighted the worst end of the animal welfare spectrum. Certainly the hens and pigs shown on this item were not given the basics of animal welfare, yet I know many who keep hens and pigs and none are treated as bad as what was portrayed.

The section on cows was definitely an exception and not the general rule. Animals kept in the condition shown would not carry calves to full term and would not give any milk. Any dairy farmer knows that his income depends on the health of his animals, and would never allow his animals to become as malnourished as the ones show.

Overall it was a very unbalanced depiction of farm animals.

[chanceyy]

disgusting....no, worse than that....call me a soft cock but Animals deserve better than that.Makes me want to rant but wont...as i say disgusting.



bugger i missed it hon .. so what was this about ?? do tell

& its not a soft cock no animal deserves shit

[onearmedbandit]

Very onesided view of the whole industry, except for the counter argument at the end of the piece regarding farmers losing income, NZ having to import more food (probably from farm factories), and possibly the downfall of our economy. They interviewed an animal activist (a sane, normal looking one) who argued their case (with compelling video supporting his claims) and the president of the Federated Farmers, whom they made to look like an idiot. The only defense they showed him saying was the practice eliminated the 'pecking order' and resultant 'murder' of poultry and pigs by their peers which occured in natural habitats (his claims).

My feelings were those of disgust, the treatment of these animals is horrific to say the least. Whether or not they have feelings or whatever, it appears wrong on so many levels. Why it's done I can understand, the demands for more produce and lower costs means the farmer practically has no choice if s/he wants to survive. And importing more food from overseas will only transfer the problem off shore.

So where does the blame lie? The farmer who controls the stock, the corporations that encourage the practice, the government for allowing it to continue (Jim Anderton was mentioned as supporting the Animal Welfare Act, but said decisions on changes are 3-4 years away), or the consumer, who demands more product and cheaper prices?

[98tls]

bugger i missed it hon .. so what was this about ?? do tell

& its not a soft cock no animal deserves shit You were better off for not seeing it....Pricks the lot of them..everybody is born with a conscience but somehow those basterds lost theres...Karma is a wonderful thing and when they get theres i for one will have a chuckle for sure.

[chanceyy]

You were better off for not seeing it....Pricks the lot of them..everybody is born with a conscience but somehow those basterds lost theres...Karma is a wonderful thing and when they get theres i for one will have a chuckle for sure.


we can only hope huh hon ...

nods .. it happens in all areas of animal ownership but i know most farmers who depend on their livestock for their income treat their animals real well, I live on a farm & my bro also has a dairy farm & no animals suffer..

I guess its prospective.. since i did not see the item i can not comment


I see kids mistreating animals while out & about & i get out & intervene can not stand to see animals mistreated in any way shape or form ..

[SwanTiger]

Extremely one sided and not worth my fucken time, they wouldn't of shown that article if its purpose was to put emphasis on how well our farming industry is doing and how it is the basis of our economy.

Knee jerk negativity designed to create a sensation for the viewer, like all their other stories apart from that Edna one which was boring and had no point, but ditto, it was the last story... audience has already changed the channel by then.

That Federated Farmers homo looked like an inbreed from the deep south and they made him look like an idiot as OAB said.

Fuck I hate TV.

[98tls]

:angry: hey swanny....lay off us inbreeds from the south eh....

[Edbear]

As most here did, I felt it was very one-sided and a cheap shot at sensationalism. I spent several years dealing with Dairy Farmers and while there were a few idiots, (bit like life in general, eh?), most took good care of their animals as they were their livelihood.

Just showed the Media in a bad light and confirmed my belief that it's a "ratings at all cost" mentality these days, and never mind about balance, or truth.

I have no love for those who intentionally abuse animals, it's a sick mind that can do that, but this programme was biased to say the least.

[John Banks]

It's like filming a KKK rally and saying "This is what Christians do at church". I wouldn't give it the time of day.

[98tls]

quite true ED.....but lets face it this shit does go on......

[scumdog]

And people complain about me hunting while they're chewing their Big Macs, sheesh!!

A lot of truth but still a effing media beat-up (Like Sir Helens faggot husband write-up).

[Edbear]

quite true ED.....but lets face it this shit does go on......



And those who get caught have no sympathy from me, either. I agree, I've seen some sights that would churn your stomach.

[sels1]

The item appeared to be aimed at factory farming and showed some fairly disgusting but accurate shots of battery hens and sow crates. They were less convincing on the dairy herds and didnt really have much on them, some shots of dead stock on one farm and a report on one farm manager from the northern Hawkes Bay who was prosecuted for animal mistreatment.
I think a lot of the info they were puting across was from overseas and in the case of the dairy farm wasnt entirly relevent to NZ conditions.

However the info on poultry was spot on. This is exactly how many NZ egg farms work, I have seen it first hand, and it disgusts me that there are allowed to treat animals that way in this so called civilised country. It is not difficult to farm free range eggs, many farms do it. Both are available at my supermarket so no prizes for guessing which ones we buy - consumers can make a difference.

And the sow crates are just, just... beyond bad- how can anyone treat a fellow mammal like that? These things have been banned in most European countries but the farming lobby here obviously has the Minister in their pocket as the gutless Government keeps delaying any action on these and the battery farms. And how many of you lot are buying their products? I certainly dont.


The rep from the farming industry came across as a total plonker- an evil man trying to justify cruel practices for better profits

[SARGE]

i grew up on 500 acres in Ohio.. we raised Cattle, pigs, horses, chickens, rabbits and Timber Wolf Hybrids ( yes the rabbits were wolf food...)

all our animals were well fed and well treated..(except the rabbits .. they were fat but doomed from birth....)

most of my neighbors were equally kind to the critters.. one of the clowns down the road had 20 cattle being raised in a junkyard.. underfed and filthy.. exposed to all kinds of haz-mat

needless to say .. the Farmers in the area took offence to the treatment of his animals as it gave them ALL a bad name.. they took him to court and won.. he was forced to clean up his act and put his herd down. he was also sentenced to 2 years for animal neglect and cruelty and fined US$20,000

he dont live there no more.. :rockon:



end of the day ... .. 4 million people in NZ means lots of dead critters ...

if we were not meant to eat animals, they wouldnt be made of meat
bring on the Soylent Green

[98tls]

I grew up on 35000 acres of land....and never a mistreated animal ever....the old man even had a soft spot for a couple of old back and tans who used to find a spot in front of the fire come winter.....

[jrandom]

if we were not meant to eat animals, they wouldnt be made of meat

Word, brutha.

Vegetables? That's what you feed to food.

...

I din't see 60 Minnits, but for the record, y'all, in the last month, consequence of splitting my time between a vegan flatmate and Oop Norf, the only meat I've eaten is what I killed myself.

Righteous.

Matter of fact, this goddamn halo's getting a bit heavy. And my wrist's sore with all the polishing.

[mikey]

i gre up on a 1/4 acre section. we had a chicekn. it flew next door an the dog ate it.

[SwanTiger]

:angry: hey swanny....lay off us inbreeds from the south eh....
Alright, but only because I know you southerners give your livestock that extra special treatment :blip:

On a side note, pitty about those chickens. I had a pet duck once, cute little things that shit everywhere. Good way to pull chicks however :innocent:

[SwanTiger]

i gre up on a 1/4 acre section. we had a chicekn. it flew next door an the dog ate it.
hey thats what happened to my duck, except it didn't fly, it crawled under a gap in the fence.

[SARGE]

i gre up on a 1/4 acre section. we had a chicekn. it flew next door an the dog ate it.

bet you had a closet with a BITCHIN grow light though huh?

[LilSel]

Didn't catch this... not sure I would have wanted to by whats being posted about what was shown.

My baby Daphney (Alaskan Malamute X Alsation) had to see a specialist today... and I was given 2 quotes for op on leg (torn a ligament) $3500 or $3000 (2 diff methods)... no matter the cost... she's my baby and i'll pay as much as it costs for her to be better. opps :Offtopic: (not domestic animals, my bad!)

If ya cant look after them... dont have them... or give them to someone who can, im sure a cow that went to a neighbouring farm if the farmer couldnt feed it, would be more productive to like split profit with that other farmer that was feeding it or whatever... a dead cow=no good... a sick cow=no milk, no babies... half the profit for a productive healthy fed cow that lives elsewhere till things clear up=better than a fine n a dead cow IMO...

Free Range all the way!:done:

[jrandom]

i gre up on a 1/4 acre section. we had a chicekn. it flew next door an the dog ate it.

mikey, if Salvador Dali and Dave Barry had ever gotten married, you would have been their firstborn.

[LilSel]

I had a pet duck once, cute little things that shit everywhere. Good way to pull chicks however :innocent:

*writes note* 'Get Duck-keep away from the dogs':laugh:

[Ixion]

i gre up on a 1/4 acre section. we had a chicekn. it flew next door an the dog ate it.

This is scarey. I also had a pet chicken (well, a bantam rooster actually, Figures). And the dog ate it. Cept it was my own dog. Do y'suppose Mikey and I could be cousins or something?

[SwanTiger]

This is scarey. I also had a pet chicken (well, a bantam rooster actually, Figures). And the dog ate it. Cept it was my own dog. Do y'suppose Mikey and I could be cousins or something?
I think it is a conspiracy, who else had a pet chicken/duck/bird and had it eaten by a dog?

Perhaps it is like the whale thing where they are sensitive to the magnetic forces of the Earth and do crazy things when those forces aren't "right".

[sels1]

This is scarey. I also had a pet chicken (well, a bantam rooster actually, Figures). And the dog ate it. Cept it was my own dog. Do y'suppose Mikey and I could be cousins or something?

Yeah - you and Mikey do talk alike....

We had chooks at home as kids too...only a dog didnt eat them....we did :o

[Jantar]

I think it is a conspiracy, who else had a pet chicken/duck/bird and had it eaten by a dog?
Well, not by a dog, but we've lost 3 hens and a rooster to ferrets, and one young chicken to a hawk.

And if they don't stop sh!tting around the back door, we may lose another 6 to the pot.

[Beemer]

I must confess to feeling physically sick watching that item. I honestly don't think I will ever be able to buy anything but freerange eggs now, and the thought of bacon isn't that appealing. Don't know what I can do about milk though, but I do feel sorry for the cows forced to live their lives like that.

I never liked Charlie Pedersen anyway, but his comment that in the 'natural world' the weak get killed and isn't it far better to be stuck in a small cage than be attacked by your own made me want to do the same to him.

We all like to think that the meat we eat is farmed responsibly but this shows that unfortunately the majority of it isn't. Don't want to put farmers out of business, but there's got to be a better way.

I think the worst part was the description of what they did to the day-old male chicks. How the HELL can they justify that by saying it is the most humane and painless method of killing them?

[The_Dover]

...and never a mistreated animal ever....the old man even had a soft spot for a couple of old back and tans who used to find a spot in front of the fire come winter.....

Isn't it considered mistreating an animal in Oamaru when you forget to buy them flowers or kiss them on the lips afterwards?

[cowpoos]

Isn't it considered mistreating an animal in Oamaru when you forget to buy them flowers or kiss them on the lips afterwards?
no thats the taranaki.........

[Hitcher]

no thats the taranaki...

Well, "good manners" is supposed to be a virtue.

[placidfemme]

I think the worst part was the description of what they did to the day-old male chicks. How the HELL can they justify that by saying it is the most humane and painless method of killing them?

Eh thats the part that got to me too... I admit, I even changed the channel when they put the chicks in that thingy that dices them up (don't even know if they showed that, but I didn't wanna see it). And the battery hens are disgusting too...

I don't know if the program was biased or not. But some of those things are just cruel, like electrocuting the pigs before slitting thier necks... (didn't change channel quick enough that time).

Sam and I only buy free-range eggs, took me forever to explain why the "cheap" ones weren't on my shopping list... Even her mother had a go at me for it... my response "I'm paying for it... its going in my body... therefore my choice"

[cowpoos]

I don't know if the program was biased or not. But some of those things are just cruel, like electrocuting the pigs before slitting thier necks...

same thing happens to cattle doll....but this method is very human....as is lethal injection [putting to sleep as vets call it]...thats why those two methods are used in the US for death row inmates...
We can't use drugs to kill animals for food....as there are residues in the meat...so electrocuting is the most human method...and instant and totally painless....

I have alot of opinions on what I saw on 60mins last night....as I'm very passionate about animals,aswell as being a farmer in this so called system of cruelty as it was basically labeled last night...I really don't think for the most part those activists have a clue about the dairy industry....but I can't help but agree with battrey hens....and the way pigs are cared for....but even then not every pig farmer/chicken farmer needs to grouped like they were last night on telli...I know a pig farmer that plays soccor with his young pigs 4 days of the week...lets them all out of their pens for a good run around and kill a couple of wharehouse soccor balls [soccor balls are a hard thing to get your accountant to write off as a bussiness expense apparently...lol]...has a old tv set up and going most of the day in the pigery...and he spends far to much time looking after them...

it was just another sensationalist report...blah!

[placidfemme]

same thing happens to cattle doll....but this method is very human....as is lethal injection [putting to sleep as vets call it]...thats why those two methods are used in the US for death row inmates...
We can't use drugs to kill animals for food....as there are residues in the meat...so electrocuting is the most human method...and instant and totally painless....

I'll take your word for it, I thought it would have hurt cause the pig was making some nasty noises...

[Hitcher]

I don't know if the program was biased or not. But some of those things are just cruel, like electrocuting the pigs before slitting thier necks... (didn't change channel quick enough that time).

Sam and I only buy free-range eggs, took me forever to explain why the "cheap" ones weren't on my shopping list... Even her mother had a go at me for it... my response "I'm paying for it... its going in my body... therefore my choice"

New Zealand's animal welfare standards require that animals are insensitive to pain before slaughter. They aren't electrocuted, they're electrically stunned. If you leave them for a couple of minutes they will regain consciousness. This requirement is a particular concern to New Zealand's jewish community.

"Free-range" eggs and poultry involves a lot of myths and legends about what hens do and don't do and the capacity of these sorts of production systems to cost-effectively feed large numbers of people. However, like homeopathy and iridology, it meets a particular market need and people who buy them believe they are taking some moral high path. Good on them, as long as they don't try and postulate that they can "taste the difference". Any discussion of this topic is probably better had in the Scottish thread...

[The_Dover]

I know a pig farmer that plays soccor with his young pigs 4 days of the week...lets them all out of their pens for a good run around and kill a couple of wharehouse soccor balls [soccor balls are a hard thing to get your accountant to write off as a bussiness expense apparently...lol]...has a old tv set up and going most of the day in the pigery...and he spends far to much time looking after them...

Does he kiss them on the lips too?

[sels1]

. ..so electrocuting is the most human method...and instant and totally painless....
Thats what we would like to think....but, as Placidfemme pointed out, why did the pig scream? I spent some time installing some equipment at the freezing works and was able to watch the killing chain in action - not a pretty sight. The animals going in were stressed and terrified - they could sense the fear and death. Altho most appeared knocked out by the electric stun, some obviously werent. But they still had a steel hook put thru their feet, hung upside down, their throats cut, the blood spurting out into a trough while they took their last breath before having their skin torn off by a machine and then disembowled and sliced up. Civilised?


. ...I know a pig farmer that plays soccor with his young pigs 4 days of the week...lets them all out of their pens for a good run around and kill a couple of wharehouse soccor balls ..has a old tv set up and going most of the day in the pigery...and he spends far to much time looking after them...
Thats sounds cool - but then how does he feel when he sends them off to the works?


it was just another sensationalist report...blah!

It seems you have to be sensationalist to get any sort of message across to jaded tv audiences these days...

[Squeak the Rat]

Have a read of Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser. I hear they've just made it into a movie for all those with high intellects.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fast-Food-Nation-All-American-Doing/dp/0141006870/sr=8-1/qid=1158631960/ref=pd_ka_1/202-7473461-3300649?ie=UTF8&s=gateway

[Jantar]

...."Free-range" eggs and poultry involves a lot of myths and legends about what hens do and don't do and the capacity of these sorts of production systems to cost-effectively feed large numbers of people. However, like homeopathy and iridology, it meets a particular market need and people who buy them believe they are taking some moral high path. Good on them, as long as they don't try and postulate that they can "taste the difference". Any discussion of this topic is probably better had in the Scottish thread...

Our hens are free range, and since keeping hens we haven't had any problems with grass grub in our little orchard or in our lawn.

As for taste the difference well all i can say to that is "Sure Can". But its not only the taste, its also the colour of the yolks. When our hens are off the lay over winter and we have to buy eggs, we notice that the yolks are a very pale yellow, but when our hens are laying (as in right now) we get eggs with a bright yellow yolk. Next time your down this way, Hitcher, call in for lunch (or even overnight) and I'll make sure that eggs are on the menu.

I do believe that the difference is is in the hens diet, and not simply a matter of whether or not they are raised in a cage. Our hens get to pick all day long, grubs, bugs etc are always fair game for them, and if we accidently leave our back door open then the cheeky blighters will come into the house and steal the cats' food as well. Each evening the hens are fed in their hutch with any kitchen scraps we might have as well as a generous helping of mixed wheat and layer pellets. So yes we can taste a difference between free range eggs and battery eggs.

I might add that most eggs sold in supermarkets as free range aren't actually free range at all. The hens are still reared in sheds and fed on commercial mash, its just that they are allowed to free range inside the shed rather than being kept in cages.

[The_Dover]

The thing that struck me about this program was the fucking rich hippy and his flower children eating fuckin sushi on the beach.

Sorry Mr Fucking Sensitive Balls, not everyone can afford that kind of lifestyle and some have to settle for factory farmed produce simply because of the cost.

Wankers.

[Joni]

The day before I saw the preview for this - decided there and then I would not be watching it - guaranteed tears from me. So I did not see it and have not read through much of this thread either...

Just wierd how people handle things different Hitch - you wanted it taped, I am like an ostrich with my head in the sand... can't watch! :spudwhat:

[Hitcher]

Our hens are free range, and since keeping hens we haven't had any problems with grass grub in our little orchard or in our lawn.

I might add that most eggs sold in supermarkets as free range aren't actually free range at all. The hens are still reared in sheds and fed on commercial mash, its just that they are allowed to free range inside the shed rather than being kept in cages.

We're not in disagreement. I'll bet your hens' eggs are delicious.

One of my points is that it is impractical for a whole bunch of reasons to produce all of New Zealand's eggs from "free-range" hens, including space requirements, production costs and disease risk. We've seen what happens in other parts of the world from diseases like avian influenza and how these are easily spread from wild birds to domestic flocks that have no biosecurity protection measures in place.

And yes, most of New Zealand's eggs are "barn laid" rather than "free range".

[Hitcher]

Just wierd how people handle things different Hitch - you wanted it taped, I am like an ostrich with my head in the sand... can't watch!

A professional interest on my part.

[marty]

mistreatment of animals disgusts me, however in perspective, more people are convicted of murdering/killing/maiming their children, than are convicted of the same to animals. maybe one day, when we figure out a universal humane way to treat animals, that there will be a shift in how many people treat their kids.

good thing with animal welfare, you have a choice. don't eat meat, ignore it and chow down, or grow your own and be responsible for the handling of your own food.

[marty]

The thing that struck me about this program was the fucking rich hippy and his flower children eating fuckin sushi on the beach.

Sorry Mr Fucking Sensitive Balls, not everyone can afford that kind of lifestyle and some have to settle for factory farmed produce simply because of the cost.

Wankers.

wonder where his salmon came from?

[placidfemme]

New Zealand's animal welfare standards require that animals are insensitive to pain before slaughter. They aren't electrocuted, they're electrically stunned. If you leave them for a couple of minutes they will regain consciousness. This requirement is a particular concern to New Zealand's jewish community.

"Free-range" eggs and poultry involves a lot of myths and legends about what hens do and don't do and the capacity of these sorts of production systems to cost-effectively feed large numbers of people. However, like homeopathy and iridology, it meets a particular market need and people who buy them believe they are taking some moral high path. Good on them, as long as they don't try and postulate that they can "taste the difference". Any discussion of this topic is probably better had in the Scottish thread...

I honestly couldn't say I can "taste" the difference. I choose to eat them because I think the way in which they are laid is better than battery hens, its a moral choice not a taste choice.

As for them not being in pain, I don't know enough to say yes or no, but it sounded like the pig was in pain... also that "shock" which paralises them... could you say its the same type of shock that the cops are now using with the tazers? It paralizes the criminal (or victim) long enough to be restrained, and its been reported that the 50,000 volts does infact hurt, so lets just say, this pig shock paralizes them long enough to have thier necks slit... the shock itself must hurt like the tazer hurts, and then as mentions by selz, some of them arn't affected as much by the 'shock' as others, and still are alive when being cut and skinned and whatnot... very cruel regardless

[Paul in NZ]

mistreatment of animals disgusts me, however in perspective, more people are convicted of murdering/killing/maiming their children, than are convicted of the same to animals. maybe one day, when we figure out a universal humane way to treat animals, that there will be a shift in how many people treat their kids.

good thing with animal welfare, you have a choice. don't eat meat, ignore it and chow down, or grow your own and be responsible for the handling of your own food.


Maybe just a humane way to get rid of people that abuse their kids would be more useful????

Paul N

Actually, scrub the humane bit, I hope it hurts like F**k

[chanceyy]

it was just another sensationalist report...blah!

thats normal poos ... I know when i started doing natural horsemanship with my horses I was in a highly visable spot .. right across the road from the SPCA who thought I was being cruel to my horses .. At least one of the officers knew me and actually came to find out what i was doing .. got to the stage they used to come watch me work her .. no halter, no talking just communicating with body language, Its poetry in motion & farken awesome to play with an animal like that

no matter how humane we try to be with our animals we are far kinder to animals in most aspects than we are to humans who suffer ..

& when the time comes to ease the suffering of my animals I do it in the most kindest humane way .. researching my options & discussing with my vet well in advance of the deed .. so that on the day I am not pushed into making a desision that i will regret later