Why is a batch called a batch?

[Big Dave]

Don't have the word at home. We have shacks, weekenders and holiday homes - I think like Soobarroo it's a uniquely kiwi word - where from?

[Ixion]

It's not. It's called a bach. Or a crib, if your from the South.

[Str8 Jacket]

Batch = batch of cookies. mmmm cookies

arrgh to slow!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Where the hell did Doona (spelling) come from???
Duvet innit?

[Motu]

Dunno,I've stayed in many,and lived in some too.....a family was really doing well if they had a bach,but not like they were stinking rich or anything....any working man could have a bach sitting right on the beach.Shit,we've come a long way from there eh?

There has to be a simple explanation,for a country that names it's major land masses The North Island and The South Island (forieners just don't get it do they?) and other place names for similar reasons - something complicated is just not possible.

[Hitcher]

Spelt bach, pronounced batch. Unless it's a German composer, in which case it's bark.

[Big Dave]

It's not. It's called a bach. Or a crib, if your from the South.

Thank you your helpfulness - clear as mud.

[Big Dave]

Spelt bach, pronounced batch. Unless it's a German composer, in which case it's bark.

Note taken. Leg cocked on wrong tree.

[Ixion]

The etymology is uncertain. I incline , myself, to a derivation from the Cymric bach = small, cosy, affectionate diminutive.Others will have their own ideas. YMMV. Perhaps, with luck a vigorous and erudite discussion may develop.

I already have dibs on the popcorn franchise in that event

[SARGE]

in the States .. they tend to gather in groups .. all your new neighbors come over on your first day and help you take the wheels off...


dad has a bigass Winnebago (http://www.hansenandyoung.com/library/Winnebago%205.jpg) and he pulls a 27 foot Airstream (http://www.bayerrv.com/common/images/makes/mak642_4.jpg) with it .. his rig sleeps 12 comfortably..

he bought 1 acre in the middle of Arizona and put a 10 foot chainlink with a huge locked gate around the whole thing.. goes out there in the winter and locks the gate behind him.. we dont hear from him till spring ...

[Ixion]

Harumph. That will not contribute to my popcorn profits. That will not bring the learned literati of six continents flocking here agog for cerebral exercise. And popcorn.

Try harder

[Big Dave]

The etymology is uncertain. I incline , myself, to a derivation from the Cymric bach = small, cosy, affectionate diminutive.Others will have their own ideas. YMMV. Perhaps, with luck a vigorous and erudite discussion may develop.

I already have dibs on the popcorn franchise in that event

Great - now I have to look up 'Cymric'.

[SARGE]

Harumph. That will not contribute to my popcorn profits. That will not bring the learned literati of six continents flocking here agog for cerebral exercise. And popcorn.

Try harder

whoa ... too much cheese powder on your popcorn there bro...

[warewolf]

"The bach (or 'small apartment' from the verb to bach, live as a bachelor) has become a characteristic local typology in New Zealand, where it is usually a simple seaside holiday home."

[Big Dave]

When, in my ignorance I thunk it waar 'Batch', I supposed it derived from 'Batchelor Pad'. Red line through that one.

[Ixion]

A possibility. However, "to bach" , as a verb form, was characteristically American. I know of no recorded British usage. It is thus unlikely that it would have been imported into early NZ vernacular. The term "bach" can be dated to the C19 in NZ. Also, the bach was essentially a FAMILY retreat , single men having resort to a "hut" .(Huts could be large, cf the usage 1916-1919 in England for the accomodation quarters of Colonial troops around London)

This is better. Erudite, that's what'll bring the popcorn munchers flocking in.

[warewolf]

"Persistent in its integral importance to New Zealand culture, the primitive hut exists as the bach. Ideologically constructed within notions of a pretended minimalist pragmatism, the bach constructs a stripped domestic economy deprived of feminine excess and civilising tendency - deprived of all accessories."

Emphasis mine. I also liked the comment: New Zealand's "tradition is one of building rather than architecture, a tradition of the unadorned hut."

[MD]

Hope you learned your lesson Big Dave that there is no T in bach, or coffee for that matter. Beers usually a given.
Since my grandparents had a ripper of a bach at Punakaiki when I was growing up, I go with the origin being batchelor pad

[Hillbilly]

OK, how did thongs become jandals?

[James Deuce]

Don't tell him about the strawberries.

[James Deuce]

OK, how did thongs become jandals?

No. How did jandals become thongs?

A thong is butt floss. Jandals have always been jandals.

[Edbear]

The interesting thing, is that New Zealanders, Australians and Americans are principally of English descent, hence supposedly emmigrated speaking the same language from the same country. So it is interesting that there should have developed such differences in vocabulary.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that NZ was the, (freely chosen - read voluntary), destination of the middle and upper classes, the crimials were deported to Australia and the Americans were rebellious and had something against tea...

[apteryx_haasti]

And for your further edification, this entry from the Encyclopedia of New Zealand (www.teara.govt.nz):


For some, a holiday at the beach is spent at the weekend crib or bach. This was a humble dwelling, often with the marks of the home handyman and painted in bright colours. It had old furniture and fading photos, along with collections of shells, discarded jandals, beach equipment and fishing gear. Initially there was little public regulation of these beach houses, and there were few facilities such as piped water or sewerage systems.

However, by the early 2000s the iconic Kiwi bach was fading. In 1989, the re-organisation of the local government brought beach areas under the jurisdiction of regional and district councils, instead of the counties, which had relaxed the rules for beach settlements. The Resource Management Act (1991) and the Coastal Policy Statement (1994) sought to protect beach areas from subdivisions that might harm the environment. The same building standards and facilities, like sewerage and footpaths, were required as in the city.

Further, there was a rush to buy coastal properties, which began to attract huge prices as overseas buyers and the new, urban wealthy looked to purchase their piece of paradise on the coast. Luxurious holiday homes became prominent, and more New Zealanders bought retirement homes close to the beach.

[Whynot]

OK, how did thongs become jandals?

"This sandal is known by different names in different localities:

In New Zealand English they are known generically as jandals (Japanese Sandals), a name used by one manufacturer. However intellectual property law prevented the term Jandals being used when sold in other countries."

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-flop

:cool:

[Dai]

Great - now I have to look up 'Cymric'.


I think he means "Welsh" but I thopught the correct spelling was Cymraig.

Cymru is the celtic for Wales.

Dai

[gijoe1313]

From the august electronic edition of Dictionary.com comes this tantalising tidbit.

bach? [bach] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation Informal.
–noun
1. a bachelor.
2. New Zealand. a small weekend or vacation house or shack.
—Idiom
3. bach it, to live alone or share living quarters with someone of the same sex, usually doing one's own housework, cooking, laundry, etc.
[Origin: 1850–55, American; by shortening]

The veracity of this quintessential phenomenon of the NZ holiday mind-set delves into many aspects of that vernacular "Kiwi-ness". The ascribing point that other learned fellows have posited, points to a functionary and utilitarian background that evolved in purpose over time. The discrepancy in the representation of the term "bach" due to influences from socio-economic developments on a micro/macro scale has led to a disempowerment of a growing segment of New Zealanders (to be know hereforth as "Kiwi/Kiwi") in accessing the perceived holiday ideal known as its use in informal/formal situations as the "bach". I can only surmise, with the demise of affordable holdings and the inculcation of Kiwi youth with "getting out to the bach" that there is a tension, which can only resolve itself through the user-pay market situation treadmill, i.e. baches will be a reality only for those families who have ascertained and worked to achieve an income that supports said lifestyle.

The profligate erection of baches has undertaken a transformation in the construction of "super" baches which rivals and exceeds the normal housing stock in "non-holiday" areas (to wit : suburbia). This has seen the demise of the "Pavalova Paradise" dictum (A quarter acre of mortgaged free land with a dwelling that people may reside at their ease within) and passed into the realm that most people shudder at "Rich Man's Playground". It is nice to be in that strata and not worry about the mundanity of the origin of what "bach" espouses. For others who remember how the passing parade of time has prevailed over nostalgic memories of the "bach", there may come a time when our nations command of the coastline is taken out of our hands not withstanding the "Queen's Chain". For now, enjoyment of the function "bach" is a responsibility, privilege and right for all Kiwis to enjoy. The evolving future of this term will definitely be at odds with the realities it is coming under threat lately. As a personal subsumed aside : "Get out there and rark it up at the bach while ye may!"

Your ever 'umble servant (sic)
Tug of the Forelock, guv'ner

[Ixion]

I think he means "Welsh" but I thopught the correct spelling was Cymraig.

Cymru is the celtic for Wales.

Dai

Only if you are Welch.

But I did mis-spell it, left out the 'a', should be cymraic.

The language of early Celtic inhabitants of Britain, which later evolved into Welch.

Goody, does this mean that there is now another Welchman here that I can blame for everything, along with Mr Biff (He's Welch too, y'know, so he's to blame). You don't know anything about my great-many-greats-grandfather's sheep do you? Twas a Welchman stole it.

[SARGE]

From the august electronic edition of Dictionary.com comes this tantalising tidbit.

bach? Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation Informal.
–noun
1. a bachelor.
2. New Zealand. a small weekend or vacation house or shack.
—Idiom
3. bach it, to live alone or share living quarters with someone of the same sex, usually doing one's own housework, cooking, laundry, etc.
[Origin: 1850–55, American; by shortening]

The veracity of this quintessential phenom
[B]
***SNIP***

ment of the function "bach" is a responsibility, privilege and right for all Kiwis to enjoy. The evolving future of this term will definitely be at odds with the realities it is coming under threat lately. As a personal subsumed aside : "Get out there and rark it up at the bach while ye may!"

Your ever 'umble servant (sic)
Tug of the Forelock, guv'ner



Christ .. sounds like Ixion and Fish wrote that ...

now i'll have to get the goddamn thesaurus out

[McJim]

Always wondered why Holiday Homes were called Baches
Always wondered why flip flops were called Jandals

This goes some way to explaining the looks of confusion on young kiwi faces in London when no-one understands them.

[SARGE]

Always wondered why Holiday Homes were called Baches
Always wondered why flip flops were called Jandals

This goes some way to explaining the looks of confusion on young kiwi faces in London when no-one understands them.

could be the " Fush n Chups OWWW" accent ..

[ManDownUnder]

My understanding is that it's come from the old single man's quarters used by forestry and other organisations (as opposed to married quarters where they got the flash stuff like... electricity...)

t'was for bachelors, and from that came the bach (hence the similar pronounciation) and the "bachelor pad" known for it's clenliness, lace curtains and good smell...

The above is completely unqualified, just what's in mind and and of that Ixion based etimolo... histrory stuff...

[McJim]

could be the " Fush n Chups OWWW" accent ..

The irony is that Fush n' Chups is the Scottish pronunciation. Of all the British colonies New Zealand received the highest proportion of scots...followed by Canada I think.

This has resulted in a large number of conversations with my mother in law when I first came here along the lines of
"This is a typical kiwi thing". "Yeah, we have them in Scotland too"
"This is how we do this in NZ". "Yup, that's how we do it in Scotland too"
"This is what we call these in NZ". "That's what we call them in Scotland too"
etc.

It's nice - makes me feel at home.

[Dai]

Only if you are Welch.

But I did mis-spell it, left out the 'a', should be cymraic.

The language of early Celtic inhabitants of Britain, which later evolved into Welch.

Goody, does this mean that there is now another Welchman here that I can blame for everything, along with Mr Biff (He's Welch too, y'know, so he's to blame). You don't know anything about my great-many-greats-grandfather's sheep do you? Twas a Welchman stole it.

25 years in Caerydd, buttie. Kiwi by birth, Celtic by ancestry, Welsh by adoption. The Welshman was probably a "der Tidy" from the valleys and he didnt steal the sheep, he married it.

Dai

[SARGE]

The irony is that Fush n' Chups is the Scottish pronunciation. Of all the British colonies New Zealand received the highest proportion of scots...followed by Canada I think.

This has resulted in a large number of conversations with my mother in law when I first came here along the lines of
"This is a typical kiwi thing". "Yeah, we have them in Scotland too"
"This is how we do this in NZ". "Yup, that's how we do it in Scotland too"
"This is what we call these in NZ". "That's what we call them in Scotland too"
etc.

It's nice - makes me feel at home.



yea man ... hit Otara and see if you can decipher what the hell anyone is talking about ..


or come to Mt. Roskill and get a crash course in Farsi, Hindu and Chinese..

[Crisis management]

The noun Bach is derived from the greek Baachus, in its original usage meant to denote a big piss up, they even named a god after it, very originally called Baachus as well.
The early settlers to these shores (sorry, not the tangata whenua, they couldn't spell) in true gentlemanly fashion brought their greek learning with them and continued to have huge Baachii at regular intervals.
As our local language developed and our ties to England weakened popular pronunciation shortened the word from Baachus to Bach and as most piss ups occured at the weekend at the beach the term became synonimous with the holiday house.
There, a direct link from ancient greek culture to a can of Tui's, what more can you want!
Pocorn please Ixion???

[Ixion]

25 years in Caerydd, buttie. Kiwi by birth, Celtic by ancestry, Welsh by adoption. The Welshman was probably a "der Tidy" from the valleys and he didnt steal the sheep, he married it.

Dai

Ah, now who shall be Pistol to thy Fluellen. We have Falstaffs enough but a Harry is too much to look for. And I am SO not going to mention Mistress Quickly, she knows who she is!

[Hillbilly]

"This sandal is known by different names in different localities:

In New Zealand English they are known generically as jandals (Japanese Sandals), a name used by one manufacturer. However intellectual property law prevented the term Jandals being used when sold in other countries."

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-flop

:cool:

Well, you learn something new every day!

[Ixion]

Don't have the word at home. We have shacks, weekenders and holiday homes - I think like Soobarroo it's a uniquely kiwi word - where from?


See what you have started !

[Hitcher]

At least in New Zealand, Subaru didn't wimp out and rename the Legacy because a bunch of WWII vets complained about a Japanese car having such a name...

[Big Dave]

At least in New Zealand, Subaru didn't wimp out and rename the Legacy because a bunch of WWII vets complained about a Japanese car having such a name...

Don't mention the war.

[Big Dave]

See what you have started !

Shaddap and eat yer popcorn.

[dawnrazor]

Interestingly enough in the Catalan region of Spain/France there is a word for a small house/out house spelt bach pronounced bash.

Bet no one knew that then!

[Skyryder]

My extensive research has confirmed that the bach is where the ladies made their scones as ............while the men listened to bach on the grammaphone.

The time hounoured tradition of the early Kiwi gentleman assurred civility between the sexes by pronouncing the holiday home as batch therefore assuring tranquilty with the fairer sex and spelling the 'batch' as bach and therefore retaining masculine dominance.

Going to the 'damper' just did not sound right. Some will get that some t will not.

Skyryder

[boomer]

its bach for bachelors, where the guys on the road gangs use to sleep when working away.

And Jandals and Thongs are all wrong, theyre flip flops or sandals or if, like me, you hate the fukin things and wouldn't be seen dead in a pair they're jesus doc'ers ( as in doc martins' boots)

fukin Kiwi's.. we gave you a language then you have to go fuck it up, just like the bastard septic tanks.

:buggerd:

[rogson]

OK........Batch is really Bach, and is derived from Batchelors or Bachelors. Of course........bloody obvious. Solved!

My question is, where did "crib" come from, and at the risk of adding another 50 pages to this thread - why is it crib in the SI and Bach in the NI?

Sorry Dave - but I would really like to know.

[Big Dave]

Sorry Dave - but I would really like to know.

Be my guest! My work here is done.

[dawnrazor]

OK........Batch is really Bach, and is derived from Batchelors or Bachelors. Of course........bloody obvious. Solved!

My question is, where did "crib" come from, and at the risk of adding another 50 pages to this thread - why is it crib in the SI and Bach in the NI?

Sorry Dave - but I would really like to know.

Crib...thats very funny that is...is there any significance that 'crib' is used in american youth culture to refer to their house?

I can see it now...'pimp my crib' - live, from greymouth.....

[Ixion]

OK........Batch is really Bach, and is derived from Batchelors or Bachelors. Of course........bloody obvious. Solved!

My question is, where did "crib" come from, and at the risk of adding another 50 pages to this thread - why is it crib in the SI and Bach in the NI?

Sorry Dave - but I would really like to know.

Ah, The Dover or Jazbug5 will be able to enlighten us here. In Scotland (in the north I think, and the Isles), the term "crib" has long been used to denote the poorest and most rudimentary dwelling, the home of the very poorest folk who could not afford a cabin. It derives from the corn-crib, a storehouse for corn, and thus cognate to the babies crib. It is not, I think gaelic, but rather Lollans of (pace, Ms Jazbug) , doric.

As to why crib is used in the South Island, that is easily explained by the predominace of Caledonians in that island.

[Smorg]

Don't mention the war.

there was a war?

[rogson]

Ah, The Dover or Jazbug5 will be able to enlighten us here. In Scotland (in the north I think, and the Isles), the term "crib" has long been used to denote the poorest and most rudimentary dwelling, the home of the very poorest folk who could not afford a cabin. It derives from the corn-crib, a storehouse for corn, and thus cognate to the babies crib. It is not, I think gaelic, but rather Lollans of (pace, Ms Jazbug) , doric.

As to why crib is used in the South Island, that is easily explained by the predominace of Caledonians in that island.

Thanks for that.
Makes sense - unlike Bach

[Big Dave]

there was a war?

I think I may have mentioned it once but got away with it.