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View Full Version : Slipper clutches on motoGP bikes article



skelstar
28th September 2006, 13:09
This is an article I found on MDaily whilst reading about the new ZX-6R. It tries to explain why Hayden is having a mare with his starts, and also helps explain the operation of the clutch in general.


It is no secret that Nicky Hayden has been having clutch issues with his Honda MotoGP machine. Reporters following the MotoGP circuit generally acknowledge it, and Hayden's recent starts (particularly, his rapid fade from pole position to 17th in the opening lap at Phillip Island a few weeks ago) point to it. Hayden was testing new clutch parts following last weekend's Motegi round. While you might think it is simple enough to design an effective clutch, and that HRC could not possibly design an ineffective one; it is a bit more complicated than that.

First, let's talk about the huge demands on a MotoGP clutch. My recent experience with motorcycle drag racing, which included a lesson in the basics by famous racer Ricky Gadson, taught me that gaining maximum acceleration away from a dead stop requires heavy use of the clutch, which is modulated to apply the maximum forward drive, without lifting the front wheel or spinning the rear tire. Letting off the throttle causes the engine to lose its momentum, so to speak, so the throttle is held at a steady, fairly heavy application, and power delivery is modulated by slipping the clutch.

Slipping the clutch means that the clutch plates are not entirely locked together, but neither are they completely separated - they are lightly dragging against each other, transmitting some of the power while the rest is turned into friction as the clutch plates slide across each other. Of course, friction generates heat, and slipping the clutch generates massive amounts of heat in the discs as well as in any peripheral components. The more powerful the bike, the more heat is generated, and it doesn't get much more powerful than a MotoGP bike! Overheating the clutch can cause the plates to 'glaze', at which point they will no longer grip each other with much force - meaning that, when force is next applied to the clutch (as it is even during in-gear acceleration), it may slip.

Typically, a "slipper clutch", which is intended to let the clutch slip slightly under hard deceleration (preventing rear wheel lockup on corner entry), will actually make it more difficult to smoothly slip the clutch when launching hard from a dead stop. This problem is exacerbated by the setup of a MotoGP bike; Hayden's RC211V almost certainly runs an extremely tall first gear (to allow him to change down to first for slow corners), which will of course require a huge amount of clutch slip for a hard launch. Not only that, but a MotoGP bike's relatively short wheelbase, tall center of gravity and light weight, compared to a purpose-built drag bike make it incredibly wheelie-prone when accelerating hard at low speeds - again, a problem that is usually controlled by slipping the clutch. All this creates massive heat build-up, which can damage the clutch plates to such an extent that they can no longer hold full power without slipping.

One solution would be to switch to a larger diameter clutch, which would have more area to effectively dissipate heat. The problem with this solution is that a larger clutch carries more inertia, slowing down the engine's rate of RPM gain and thus its acceleration. Another solution would be to add more spring pressure, but this would (usually) make the clutch harder to pull, increasing rider fatigue. It might also change the way in which the slipper clutch operates, possibly requiring that system to be redesigned (if the RC211V does in fact have a slipper clutch - with so much of MotoGP developement shrouded in secrecy, Honda might currently be using a completely different system to do the job usually done by a slipper clutch). Of course, we're sure that HRC engineers have been through all these solutions, and probably a few more I haven't thought of!

Now that you have a basic idea of the technical challenges of designing a clutch to handle both the rigors of a standing start, and the entirely different demands of the rest of the race, let's talk about what happens when it doesn't. As I mentioned earlier, once the clutch plates have been glazed due to extreme heat, or otherwise damaged, they may not be able to hold the engine's full power, and can start slipping under hard acceleration. This leads to that horrible feeling when you twist the throttle all the way to the stop, only to see the needle spin quickly across the tach while the bike continues to accelerate as if you're only giving it 60% throttle.

For most riders, this is nothing more than a minor irritant - oh, gee, I'm only able to use 60% of my liter bike's horsepower during the morning commute to work! But for a rider like Nicky Hayden, battling against the world's most talented motorcycle racers in contention for a championship that Honda has spent untold millions of dollars trying to win, it's a much more serious issue. If Hayden exits a corner just behind Valentino Rossi, only to apply his throttle and find less than 100% of his Honda's horsepower being transmitted to the ground, how is he supposed to beat 'The Doctor'? That's a hard enough task aboard an equally powered machine.

Whatever happens between Rossi and Hayden in the final two rounds of the series, I'm sure most fans are hoping that both of these riders have any mechanical issues behind them.

I would have put it in 'Clutches/Gearbox' forum but thought it not a maintenance topic.

Wasp
28th September 2006, 14:01
A very interesting read while I should be working... :innocent:

sAsLEX
28th September 2006, 14:22
Yamaha copes....so does suzuki and Kwak and Pedrosa! Maybe Nicky is just too fat to be in GP look at all the other tiny people doing well.

pritch
28th September 2006, 21:16
Yamaha copes....so does suzuki and Kwak and Pedrosa! Maybe Nicky is just too fat to be in GP look at all the other tiny people doing well.

I've read that the clutch on Hayden's bike is in the middle of the bike where it is prone to run hotter.

The bikes sound quite cool at the end of the straight: roll off the gas then
blip blip blip blip.

I hope the little cobbers weren't so impressed with this that they went home and tried it on their 250s:doctor:

Motu
28th September 2006, 22:49
I haven't heard any complaints about clutch slip from Hayden,just that it's tricky.

Some time in the '80's I think ''slipper'' clutches were the hot new trick in drag cars....and when I finaly saw a picture of one I had a chuckle.They were using a clutch design that Ford used back in the 1930's,through to the '70's on trucks - a lever action clutch with weights on the levers.As engine speed increased the weights loaded up the clutch more....so they could adjust spring pressure and weights to get slip and bite.In the old Fords the clutch was easy to push in at idle,but at high speeds it was real heavy.

Brian d marge
29th September 2006, 04:02
A lot of teams use the Fcc clutch , I might have a photo somewhere , these things are tiny .. I remember seeing them last year ,,but stuffed if I can remember which teams use them though

Speak to any 125 cr rider about clutch abuse they can tell a few storys !!

Ill have a look see if I did have any pictures of the things ( digital cameras ,,,10000000 photos on cd rom ...9999999999999 of them crap !

Stephen

Pwalo
29th September 2006, 08:00
They're just getting ready to explain how Nicky was caught and passed by the 'Doctor' in case Rossi wins the championship.

It's a bit hard to believe that Honda wouldn't have sorted a solution if was a simple mechanical fix.

pritch
29th September 2006, 10:31
For those of you who can understand such things; a Ducati slipper clutch.

pritch
29th September 2006, 10:34
That was a bit hard on the eyes....