Low powered big bikes.

[The Pastor]

Why do the large crusiers (1000cc+) have such low hp and torque values? Can they not get more power out of the typical V twin?

[MattRSK]

Why do the large crusiers (1000cc+) have such low hp and torque values? Can they not get more power out of the typical V twin?

Stop thinking, its a waste of everyones time!

[Scouse]

Haven't you heard of Ducati or Aprillia or Moto Morini...?

[Motig]

I think the word 'cruiser' might be a bit of a clue for you.

[Edbear]

Can they not get more power out of the typical V twin?



Yep!:yes:



10char

[Edbear]

I think the word 'cruiser' might be a bit of a clue for you.



Yep!:yes:




10char

[McJim]

Jeremy Clarkson summed it up pretty much when he was slagging off american cars. He was reading the brochure on some newly released car with a 4.6L engine that produced "a whopping 100kw of power" (exaggeration but you get my drift)

Yanks are good at getting tiny hp out of huge engines.

Europeans and Japs are good at getting huge hp out of tiny engines.

Dunno why. Just the way it is.

[Lou Girardin]

I had one till recently.

[The_Dover]

Haven't you heard of Ducati

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Edbear]

Hey! Someone deleted my second post! I was answering two posts, tongue-in-cheek! What Cheek!:baby:

[vs04]

Why do the large crusiers (1000cc+) have such low hp and torque values? Can they not get more power out of the typical V twin?

In the states the first thing the guys do with the 1400 intruders is rip out the air boxes re-jet the carbs and put aftermarket pipes on them,they call it uncorking.The 1400 comes alive after these mods,no where near sportbike performance but alot better than stock.Most cruisers will respond well to mods like these but it all depends what you,re after, one of the guys in the Triumph owners club here in wanganui did the same thing to his speedmaster which improved it no end.Cheers.

[The Pastor]

Haven't you heard of Ducati or Aprillia or Moto Morini...?

Not really crusiers are they.

I was thinking of getting one (sick of sportsbike riders trying to be the fastest thing since rossi....) but it seems to me to be a big waste I mean the kawa vn2000 only gets 100hp? 2L and 100hp? I was thinking there must be a reason why its so small?

[MattRSK]

Not really crusiers are they.

I was thinking of getting one (sick of sportsbike riders trying to be the fastest thing since rossi....) but it seems to me to be a big waste I mean the kawa vn2000 only gets 100hp? 2L and 100hp? I was thinking there must be a reason why its so small?

Did someone say contradiction?

[SlashWylde]

It's not cruisers per say, but the engineering behind the engine design that goes into the bike. There are plenty of stock factory Japanese v-twin engines which achive respectable torque & horsepower figures but those engines are designed for v-twin sports bikes like the SV and TL.

Likewise I understand the Buells produce good figures and there are plenty of aftermarket HD clone engines which are better engineered than the originals and can produce over 120HP at the rear wheel.

All comes down to the engineering design philosophy and the dollar value attached to the finished product. Anything is possible given enough time and money.

[The Pastor]

In the states the first thing the guys do with the 1400 intruders is rip out the air boxes re-jet the carbs and put aftermarket pipes on them,they call it uncorking.The 1400 comes alive after these mods,no where near sportbike performance but alot better than stock.Most cruisers will respond well to mods like these but it all depends what you,re after, one of the guys in the Triumph owners club here in wanganui did the same thing to his speedmaster which improved it no end.Cheers.

Don't get me wrong, I don't WANT more power, im just wondering why so much CC and little hp? Surely the factory must be able to pump out more than 0.05hp per CC... arnt big power cruisers in fashion or what not? Its always baffled me why they have no power....

[Hillbilly]

They're bloody heavy, that's why. A V-Star 650 weighs in at 210kg! They're also low-tech, low compression air cooled motors.

I'm not impressed by the "sports cruisers" like the V-Rod either. It really depends on what type of riding you enjoy.

[Waylander]

Not really crusiers are they.

I was thinking of getting one (sick of sportsbike riders trying to be the fastest thing since rossi....) but it seems to me to be a big waste I mean the kawa vn2000 only gets 100hp? 2L and 100hp? I was thinking there must be a reason why its so small?
Don't get a big one then. 800cc cruiser is perfectly fine.

The reason for it is cause manufacturers know that cruiser riders will mod they're bikes more than sportsbike owners, so the engines are understressed from the factory to allow for all the extra stress their target audience will put on them.

[onearmedbandit]

Hey! Someone deleted my second post! I was answering two posts, tongue-in-cheek! What Cheek!:baby:


Whoops, sorry.:doh:

[SlashWylde]

Also, big ( say over 1200cc) cruisers aren't necessarily the shit. My 800cc Vulcan goes pretty hard, corners well is relatively light and with a few cheap simple mods the torque and HP can be increased by around 15% from a factory figure of 54HP into 250kg wet.

[Virago]

Not really crusiers are they.

I was thinking of getting one (sick of sportsbike riders trying to be the fastest thing since rossi....) but it seems to me to be a big waste I mean the kawa vn2000 only gets 100hp? 2L and 100hp? I was thinking there must be a reason why its so small?

So are you seriously looking at getting one? Or is this just another "piss on the cruisers" thread?

How on earth can you afford a VN2000 when you can't even afford a tyre for a WOF?:whistle:

[Waylander]

They're bloody heavy, that's why. A V-Star 650 weighs in at 210kg! They're also low-tech, low compression air cooled motors.

I'm not impressed by the "sports cruisers" like the V-Rod either. It really depends on what type of riding you enjoy.
The Vn2000 is not air cooled. Infact I think only Yamaha and harley still have air cooled cruisers.

[Waylander]

Also, big ( say over 1200cc) cruisers aren't necessarily the shit. My 800cc Vulcan goes pretty hard, corners well is relatively light and with a few cheap simple mods the torque and HP can be increased by around 15% from a factory figure of 54HP into 250kg wet.
lol just over 1200 huh?:lol:

[onearmedbandit]

The reason for it is cause manufacturers know that cruiser riders will mod they're bikes more than sportsbike owners, so the engines are understressed from the factory to allow for all the extra stress their target audience will put on them.

Eh? Like what mods? Seen plenty of sportsbikes with multiple mod's, in fact it's almost mandatory. On the other hand haven't come across too many modified Intruders or the like. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.

[McJim]

An advantage of low hp per litre is engine longevity and potentially increased service intervals though. e.g. I knew a bloke had an Evo VII with the Tommy Makkinen sports mod kit on it - 2 Litres - silly amount of hp. Service interval 2,000 miles (UK).

Thought the V-Twins were torquey as fuck low down though....

[The Pastor]

So are you seriously looking at getting one? Or is this just another "piss on the cruisers" thread?

How on earth can you afford a VN2000 when you can't even afford a tyre for a WOF?:whistle:

Well as my next bike, I like all bikes and don't piss on any of them (except rg150s...... :Pokey: )

Whats the top speed the 800 vulcan can go? I heard it can only really get up to about 130km/hr? Which seems a big waste of 700cc if it can get there (a gn250 can get up to that cant it?)...

[Waylander]

Eh? Like what mods? Seen plenty of sportsbikes with multiple mod's, in fact it's almost mandatory. On the other hand haven't come across too many modified Intruders or the like. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.
You're looking for obvious ones. Mods on cruisers are internal to the engine. Borring it out, removing the baffles (as Slash has done to his) Still apears stock but open the throttle.....

You know what to look for on a sportsbike cause that's what you ride. I don't know what to look for to indicate mods on a sportsbike because that's not what I ride.

[Waylander]

Well as my next bike, I like all bikes and don't piss on any of them (except rg150s...... :Pokey: )

Whats the top speed the 800 vulcan can go? I heard it can only really get up to about 130km/hr? Which seems a big waste of 700cc if it can get there (a gn250 can get up to that cant it?)...
I know someone who has seen 180+ on his Vulcan. That was back when it was completly stock aswell.

And he was still getting farther away from me on the Virago...

[Motu]

When Honda first brought out the Shadow,it made good top end power,and good torque too,but close to the HP rpm - one of the fastest cruisers.But it didn't feel fast.So Honda lowered the HP,increased the torque,and brought it much lower down the rev scale,and dropped the 5 speed box for a 4 speed.Now they had a grunter,and sold more bikes.

[Edbear]

Whoops, sorry.:doh:





:2thumbsup Dasokay! Hey it's Friday! :banana: Looks like the weather goin' be hokay this weekend, too!

As for low power, cruisers are all about cruisin', (funny dat!), and style. Manufacturer's design and tune their engines according to the target market, and a low revving torquey motor has a charm of its own in its particular application. I love getting my bike "on cam" and feeling the power, but also like the lazy, easy cruise of a v-twin depending on my mood and the type of riding I want to do at the time.

[The Pastor]

i'll guess i'll just have to test ride some of the basterds and see how I get on.

Would the mid size(800ish) be sweet for the commute?

[Ixion]

"Great engines move slowly, and are not so soon put out of frame"

(Bacon, I think, though the reference to the loom seems to indicate a later period)

[onearmedbandit]

You're looking for obvious ones. Mods on cruisers are internal to the engine. Borring it out, removing the baffles (as Slash has done to his) Still apears stock but open the throttle.....

You know what to look for on a sportsbike cause that's what you ride. I don't know what to look for to indicate mods on a sportsbike because that's not what I ride.

An engine is an engine at the end of the day though, and being an efficient pump is what it all boils down to, so while the application of the mod's may be different the outcome is the same. How many cruiser riders would bore out a good std engine? Removing the baffles, not being smart but that's hardly a mod that warrants an understressed engine.

You can't see the mod's done to a sportsbike engine, like ignition timing, cam work, skimmed heads, ported and polished intakes, power commander, etc, save for an aftermarket system. I would've thought more sportsbikes would see this kind of work then most Japanese cruisers (which is what RM is refering to in several posts) would, and these mod's would place a lot more stress on the std engines components (conrods, valve train, etc) then a big bore kit and opened pipes.

I'm not trying to cause an argument here. I grew up watching my brother put S&S carbs, Screaming Eagle Cams, open slash cut pipes, etc onto his HD's over the years and I know how well they accelerate.

[Waylander]

An engine is an engine at the end of the day though, and being an efficient pump is what it all boils down to, so while the application of the mod's may be different the outcome is the same. How many cruiser riders would bore out a good std engine? Removing the baffles, not being smart but that's hardly a mod that warrants an understressed engine.

You can't see the mod's done to a sportsbike engine, like ignition timing, cam work, skimmed heads, ported and polished intakes, power commander, etc, save for an aftermarket system. I would've thought more sportsbikes would see this kind of work then most Japanese cruisers (which is what RM is refering to in several posts) would, and these mod's would place a lot more stress on the std engines components (conrods, valve train, etc) then a big bore kit and opened pipes.

I'm not trying to cause an argument here. I grew up watching my brother put S&S carbs, Screaming Eagle Cams, open slash cut pipes, etc onto his HD's over the years and I know how well they accelerate.
Someone who has actually modded a cruiser would be a better person to talk to than me. I've only dreamed about it mate.

Though plans in the works for the Vmax.:devil2:

[Virago]

......As for low power, cruisers are all about cruisin', (funny dat!), and style. Manufacturer's design and tune their engines according to the target market, and a low revving torquey motor has a charm of its own in its particular application. I love getting my bike "on cam" and feeling the power, but also like the lazy, easy cruise of a v-twin depending on my mood and the type of riding I want to do at the time.

Well said!

This man's answered your questions for you RM. If you want power and high speed, stick to the sprotbikes. If you want to cruise, then get a crusier....

[SlashWylde]

Well as my next bike, I like all bikes and don't piss on any of them (except rg150s...... :Pokey: )

Whats the top speed the 800 vulcan can go? I heard it can only really get up to about 130km/hr? Which seems a big waste of 700cc if it can get there (a gn250 can get up to that cant it?)...

Ohh fuck no. I've had my VN800 up to $180.00 when it was still as from the factory. Only reason I buttoned off was cause I was running out of road.

Anyway, outright speed is not what a cruiser is about. The VN produces the same amount of torque as the CBR600RR but at about half the revs. She accellerates quick for a cruiser and will out perform ohter cruisers up to the 1200cc mark in the straights and through corners.

[Waylander]

She accellerates quick for a cruiser and will out perform ohter cruisers up to the 1200cc mark in the straights and through corners.
lol:lol::2thumbsup

[SlashWylde]

i'll guess i'll just have to test ride some of the basterds and see how I get on.

Would the mid size(800ish) be sweet for the commute?

Definately, use her every day for commuting.

For the sake of it, go to the AMPS open day and check out the HD 883 Sportster as a basis for comparison against the metric cruisers. Also read these reviews:

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/roadtests/budget_v_twin_bike_comparison/

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/roadtests/is_bigger_better/index.html

[vs04]

The Vn2000 is not air cooled. Infact I think only Yamaha and harley still have air cooled cruisers.

The 1400 intruder is oil air cooled, same with the s83 boulevard,same bike different name.

[Scouse]

Not really crusiers are they.

I was thinking of getting one (sick of sportsbike riders trying to be the fastest thing since rossi....) but it seems to me to be a big waste I mean the kawa vn2000 only gets 100hp? 2L and 100hp? I was thinking there must be a reason why its so small?No but they are still large capacity v twins and your question vas why cant you get more power out of a large capacity v twin

[MSTRS]

Different engine designs for different applications. Plenty of high HP V-twins out there, but aimed at the sportsbike market. Cruisers have low-revving 'lazy' engines with tons of torque. Check out the redline revs to compare.

[Bonez]

Don't get me wrong, I don't WANT more power, im just wondering why so much CC and little hp? Surely the factory must be able to pump out more than 0.05hp per CC... arnt big power cruisers in fashion or what not? Its always baffled me why they have no power....

Your query has been answered a number of times. They go as fast as riders are happy to CRUISE at. Yes they are popular. I've seen more on the road lately around our area than sprotbikes. Not everyone wants a godzillion HP at a godzillion revs and are quite happy to, I dear say repeat myself, CRUISE.

[skidz]

The way I see it is if you want to cruise, buy a V Twin cruiser. If you want to go fast and have to do a runner from the law, have a sprotbike. Simple as that. Everyone to thier own.

[Troll]

You can't see the mod's done to a sportsbike engine, like ignition timing, cam work, skimmed heads, ported and polished intakes, power commander, etc, save for an aftermarket system. I would've thought more sportsbikes would see this kind of work then most Japanese cruisers (which is what RM is refering to in several posts) would, and these mod's would place a lot more stress on the std engines components (conrods, valve train, etc) then a big bore kit and opened pipes.

.


No and most evo riders couldn't see the ported, polished skimed & twin plugged heads on my shovel, the mild camshaft, the mikuni carb, the single fire ignition, the s&s flwheels or the delcron cases

What they usually saw whene ever they tried to take me on at the lights was the tailight

from my experience people play with harleys more so than most bikes because it is so easy to get a 20% increase in power with no downside in either ridability or reliability

[onearmedbandit]

No and most evo riders couldn't see the ported, polished skimed & twin plugged heads on my shovel, the mild camshaft, the mikuni carb, the single fire ignition, the s&s flwheels or the delcron cases

What they usually saw whene ever they tried to take me on at the lights was the tailight

from my experience people play with harleys more so than most bikes because it is so easy to get a 20% increase in power with no downside in either ridability or reliability

Hence why I clarified my statement with the word 'Japanese', I'd agree that the most modd'ed bikes would be HD's.

[Gremlin]

From my own experience riding a 650cc yamaha thing while my bike was in service... get an 800 or something at least... from what slash says, it goes well...

Racing a bus down the motorway to get into another lane before it was an offramp was not a highlight of my week, nor was almost sending it down the road twice (it stepped out on me so far the second time, it was starting to lean right over) :shit: cornering was.... pathetic... when I told the guys about the headshake through a corner, they told me it was normal, and called wallowing. Whatever it was, I didn't like it :gob:

But different strokes for different folks, and that was definitely not me, although the amount of sound it made was great for amusing others (ok, mostly myself) it just didn't work for me. I like the responsiveness of a nice sprotty.

On the other hand, it rolled off the line really easily (compared to my carbs) and torque was always there, so more ridable when cruising.

[Troll]

Hence why I clarified my statement with the word 'Japanese', I'd agree that the most modd'ed bikes would be HD's.


Im noticed that but I'd just thought I'd have a gentle dig at the evo riders out there

[The Pastor]

What are evo riders?

[SlashWylde]

What are evo riders?

Evo is short for evolution. It's a type of engine HD which was part of a ten year business plan for HD from 1976 to 1986.

The EVO motor was released in 1984 and fitted to five of that years new model bikes.

I guess an EVo rider is one who rides an EVO fitted bike.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_engine

[selectedgrub]

Can pull away in 4th gear?

[Scouse]

Evo is short for evolution. It's a type of engine HD which was part of a ten year business plan for HD from 1976 to 1986.

The EVO motor was released in 1984 and fitted to five of that years new model bikes.

I guess an EVo rider is one who rides an EVO fitted bike.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_engineNext qustions from RM

1/ whats HD..?

2/ whats 1976..?

3/ whats 1986..?

[scumdog]

Next qustions from RM

1/ whats HD..?

2/ whats 1976..?

3/ whats 1986..?

(1) Harley-Davidson (of course!) only now you have TC models to think about as well!

(2) The year you were born (and my engagement)

(3) 10 years after you were born (pre-pubescent age for you!!)

[Edbear]

(1) (2) (and my engagement)




Huh? Mine too.

[thehollowmen]

I'll tell ya a nice reason to have a weak unstressed engine.

It ain't jerky.

Snap the throttle open or closed and they just glide up or down. Sure they can really take off but it the engine doesn't do sudden wheelspinning or grabbing that heavy engine braking as with high reving engines.

With a choice of bikes, I'd probably take a new pillion on a cruiser or tourer so we don't get all the helmet bashing with the sudden starts and stops.

[The Pastor]

I'll tell ya a nice reason to have a weak unstressed engine.

It ain't jerky.

Snap the throttle open or closed and they just glide up or down. Sure they can really take off but it the engine doesn't do sudden wheelspinning or grabbing that heavy engine braking as with high reving engines.

With a choice of bikes, I'd probably take a new pillion on a cruiser or tourer so we don't get all the helmet bashing with the sudden starts and stops.

Note to other kb'ers - this is how you actually answer the question with out adding your pointless dribble to the threads (take note zxer)

[scumdog]

I'll tell ya a nice reason to have a weak unstressed engine.

It ain't jerky.

Snap the throttle open or closed and they just glide up or down. Sure they can really take off but it the engine doesn't do sudden wheelspinning or grabbing that heavy engine braking as with high reving engines.

With a choice of bikes, I'd probably take a new pillion on a cruiser or tourer so we don't get all the helmet bashing with the sudden starts and stops.

Wot 'e sed.

Tractable torquey understressed engines make for smooth easy cruising, don't need THAT much power for such activities.

[Waylander]

The way I see it is if you want to cruise, buy a V Twin cruiser. If you want to go fast and have to do a runner from the law, have a sprotbike. Simple as that. Everyone to thier own.
And if you want to do both (except the running from the cop thing) get a V4.:cool: