more questions

[erik]

Well, I've been working on the bike today, right now it's hanging with it's front wheel in the air (see attached pic). Tomorrow I'm going to take a look at the steering head bearings. I'm thinking I'll just take the top tripple clamp off and leave the wheel, forks and lower tripple clamp together and remove them as one piece.

On the ride up to Wellsford on saturday, the speedo, odometer and trip meter stopped working. As Posh Tourer suggested, it was the cable, it has snapped near the bottom. Does anyone know if these are standard kinda parts, I'm wondering if I might be able to get one from a wrecker from an fzr250 if it's the same type? Any suggestions for places to phone (in Auckland)?

Another question I've got is do you use a thread locking agent when you're working on bikes? I noticed in a manual for another bike that it recommends it in some places. Can anyone recommend a brand/type/place to get it?

It's fun working on the bike, but it's a bit intimidating not really knowing what I'm doing, so I really appreciate being able to ask you guys for advice.

[Magua]

Drop Spencer@atomicbikes.co.nz a line, they are on Barrys Point rd on the North Shore. They seemed to have an extensive range of stuff when I was there buying a new mirror.

[FROSTY]

last question first.
I would suggest the same as above. Pull the cable off and take it to spence.
He has a range of aftermarket speedo cables in stock.
As far as thread lockers is concerned I use the Loctite range. Main reason is Ive used em so much before and they seem to work well.Id just go to repco or a engineering supply company like Paykels
Of course keep in mind every application will need a different thread locker Generally you will need the low strenghth stuff
As far as the steering head bearings are concerned I must ask the question WHY?
If you are just checking them to make sure they still work then just leave it all as is. turn the steering from full lock to full lock .Other than the drag caused by electric cables it should be a smooth swing. Pay particular attention to how the steering turns over the center position as this is the most likely point to get damaged in a crash or just normal wear and tear.Id check for forwards and backwards movement in the forks which indicates loose bearings
Whils you've got the front end up why not check the wheel bearings for wear.
I generally use the approach -If it ain't broke don't fix it.
So if it all seems ok then just leave it alone
If it turns out you do need to replace the steering head bearings I wouldn't suggest taking the front end out in one piece.
In my experience as a one man job its more of a pain in the ass than taking it all to bits properly.
-Wheel out, forks out ,then take the top clamp off
you will need to loosen off and remove the locking collar to drop the bottom tripple clamp the bottom bearing cage should drop away with the clamp.
you will need todrift the top bearings out.

[Milky]

You can realistically remove the forks etc ths way you described, but my personal preference is the way frosty explained. It is much less weight to carry without the wheel in there, and you can check the brakepad thickness etc while the wheel is out. depends how far you want to go though... much easier to work with on your own if you take small steps.
NB... check the alignment of the forks with the top of the upper triple clamp before you remove them. misalignment may do something to your handling or wear and tear etc.. i dunno exactly what, but it probably pays to put them back as you found them

[FROSTY]

ya know I wondered about what would happen if your fork tubes were like about 5mm out of allighnment.We all know it isnt a good thing to do In theory one leg would bottom out sooner than the other putting strain on axle etc -but I wonder how many would notice the difference in the real world .

[k14]

ya know I wondered about what would happen if your fork tubes were like about 5mm out of allighnment.We all know it isnt a good thing to do In theory one leg would bottom out sooner than the other putting strain on axle etc -but I wonder how many would notice the difference in the real world .

There would also be problems with the rate at which the fork compresses. I know that the springs in my bike are progressive not sure about others though. I think it makes it so that the more the fork compresses the harder the spring becomes. Therefore this would screw up the geometry of the forks etc. I am pretty sure it could do some major damage, but I'm not sure if it would be noticable on the road.

[vifferman]

ya know I wondered about what would happen if your fork tubes were like about 5mm out of allighnment.We all know it isnt a good thing to do In theory one leg would bottom out sooner than the other putting strain on axle etc -but I wonder how many would notice the difference in the real world .Dunno if you'd notice it, but it's a good point. And another one is, you can't rely on the fact that they line up at the top fork yoke to mean that they are lined up at the axle, as the triple clamps may be a little crooked, and/or the forks themsleves may be slightly different for some reason. My forks are currently lined up at the bottom, but the inner tubes ("chromes") are about 1mm or so different in height at the top.
It's easy-ish to check this, by taking the front wheel off and using the axle inserted in the loose axle mounts to check that the bottom of the forks are lined up. If they aren't, you can slightly loosen one fork leg and use a soft-faced mallet or a hammer and piece of soft wood to tap one fork down slightly.

[pete376403]

I really doubt you'd notice it. Consider the Marzocchi forks that had damping in one leg, spring in the other. They seemed to work.

[pete376403]

There would also be problems with the rate at which the fork compresses. I know that the springs in my bike are progressive not sure about others though. I think it makes it so that the more the fork compresses the harder the spring becomes. Therefore this would screw up the geometry of the forks etc. I am pretty sure it could do some major damage, but I'm not sure if it would be noticable on the road.
geometry is angles, nothing to do with spring rate.

[FROSTY]

geometry is angles, nothing to do with spring rate.
Yea but again i wonder--it would mean that one leg would have a slight preload on it

[vifferman]

I really doubt you'd notice it. Consider the Marzocchi forks that had damping in one leg, spring in the other. They seemed to work.As did the VF500, VF750 and other bikes from the 80s.

[SPman]

As did the VF500, VF750 and other bikes from the 80s. And the new Z1000

[erik]

As far as the steering head bearings are concerned I must ask the question WHY?
Well, when I first got the bike, the mechanic said the bearings were getting close to needing to be replaced. They have a tiny bit of play in them that only shows itself as a clicking sound when you hold the front brake and push the handlebars forwards and backwards. He said that they couldn't be adjusted much more, I think I might have found out what he meant today. I did what you guys suggested and pulled it all apart in bits, had a look at the bearings (they're roller bearings, I was expecting them to be ball bearings) they look ok to me, they don't have any notchyness as far as I can tell. So I just put a bit more grease on them and reassembled the steering head.
There are two ring nuts separated by a rubber washer, and a lock washer thing locks them together. When I put it back together, I must've tightened the top ring nut a bit too much, squashing the washer, because when I put the top triple clamp on, the big nut that holds it in place couldn't be screwed down far enough to tighten against the top triple clamp. So I loosened the ring nuts and now it's pretty much like it was before, I think.

I guess a large part of why I'm doing this is because I like pulling stuff apart to see how it works.

After taking the front wheel off, I couldn't help but have a look at the wheel bearings. I thought they looked like they could do with more grease, so after looking at a maintenance book from the library, I carefully hammered them out of the hub, and I'll clean the old grease off (it says to use solvent in the book, but I'm hoping that petrol will do), and repack them with some wheel bearing grease I got from repco.

And there's the front brake caliper... I've pulled that off and having a look at it, it's the kind where there are only pistons in one side, and the whole caliper is supposed to slide a bit on it's mounting pins as the brakes are squeezed and released. The mounting pins were slightly corroded though, so I'm thinking I'll clean them up a bit, and maybe put a bit of grease on them when I reassemble it. I'm just a bit apprehensive of putting grease anywhere near the brakes. I'll have another look at it tomorrow and think about it some more...

Does anyone know if the brake pads on my bike are likely to contain asbestos? (1991, did they still use asbestos brake pads then?)

XJ/FROSTY, what does it mean to "drift" bearings out? Does it mean tap them on alternating sides so they slowly come out?

I emailed Spencer@atomicbikes.co.nz, he replied really quick. He said he couldn't get me genuine parts, but that he could get me a cable inner for about $40. I did a bit more phoning, and discovered I can get a genuine yamaha complete cable (outer and inner) for pretty much the same amount, so I think I'll go with that. It's weird how genuine parts are cheaper in some cases.

Thank you all for your replies :)

[Posh Tourer :P]

Sounds like you have it sorted... grease on everything, especially those pins for the brake. The CB125T had the same type, and it certainly helps if it is free to move

[pete376403]

A "drift" is another term for a punch ie the tool you hit with the hammer.

Wheel bearings are *probably* standard sizes, you can take the old ones to Saeco or SKF or a similar parts supply house and get new ones far cheaper that the genuine Honda/Suz/Kaw/Yam etc part. THey're really not worth messing about with, just go for the new ones and be done with it.

As far as the brake caliper pins go, they need a thin (really thin) smear of high temp grease (I use CopperKote). Just keep it of the disk and pad surfaces.

[FROSTY]

I agree with pete -Youve got the bearings out --for $20 you should just replace em
On the side of your wheel bearings will be a bearing type-probably summat like 63022rs
Ok now breaking it down the 6302 refers to the bearing size the 2 rs means 2 rubber seals. it might also be 2 nsl
-which is 2 neoprene seals
They might be unsealed bearings currently in there.
If you're anal about it pull the seals out but you will get better life leaving the seals in.
Dont worry if theyre skf, or nachi bearings --its the size that matters.
About those brake pins Id sand them with 400 grit paper untill theyre smooth and all sighn of corrossion is gone .If you have it yep use hmp grease but it is just a thin -almost microscopic smear so u could use normal grease.

As for the head bearings summat sounds wrong here dude.
The bottom ring is like the nut on a nut and bolt and the top ring is the locknut.
If you leave it a bit loose then in theory thethread should stick through less not more
If you want eric Ill have a quick gander at it for ya
-give me a call if ya want
frosty -021544251

[erik]

I'm on a real tight budget, and I read your posts too late. Anyway, the bearings are 6302z, they had a metal "seal" (although it's not really a seal, but I dunno what else to call it) on one side only. I pried those off so that I could clean them properly, and repacked them with wheel bearing grease, they feel like they're ok, so hopefully they'll do the trick.

I think I've got the steering head bearings sorted. There's two ring nuts (that's what they call them in a FZR400 manual) with a rubber washer in between them, and a washer thing locks them together so they can't twist separately. When I tightened them up the first time, I tightened the second one a bit too tight, squashing the rubber washer a bit too much, which made the steering stem stick out the top of the triple clamp too far. I guess the steering head bearings have squashed a bit or something, but I don't really know if that's possible or not. Anyway, I've made an aluminium spacer so that the steering stem doesn't stick through so far. (see pic)
Thanks for the offer of having a look at it, Frosty, but I think it's ok.

Next thing I'm thinking about changing is the jets. I lowered the needles one notch to try to improve the midrange, and I think it's helped, but I'm now wondering if the top end is a bit lean. Is it possible that lowering the needles also affected the top end too? And what's the story with jets, am I going to have to order some special mega-expensive jets (in which case it's out of the question) or are they a fairly standard part?
The carbs are mikunis, and the jet I think I want to change has a 90 stamped on it (indicating the size of the hole?).

[vifferman]

And the new Z1000Is that so? That's a bit 80s...

I'll clean the old grease off (it says to use solvent in the book, but I'm hoping that petrol will do), and repack them with some wheel bearing grease I got from repco.You should really use kerosene as a solvent for most things - it has a higher flashpoint than petrol, and it also leaves a slight lubricating/protective film. (That and the fact our petrol has nasty stuff in that attacks some rubber and plastic stuff).

And there's the front brake caliper... I'm thinking I'll clean them up a bit, and maybe put a bit of grease on them when I reassemble it. I'm just a bit apprehensive of putting grease anywhere near the brakes. as others have said, if you use high-temp grease (just a smear), you'll be right. It won't get runny and end up on your pads. Make sure that the pins are really smooth though, or they'll end up sticking again.

Does anyone know if the brake pads on my bike are likely to contain asbestos? (1991, did they still use asbestos brake pads then?)Unlikely, but if you're worried about safety, just wash 'em rather than brushing them or blowing them off dry. Breathing in the petrol fumes you used for cleaning your bearings is a greater health hazard than air-borne asbestos anyway.