I vote for cops to start carrying.

[Sniper]

Enough of this, we are a peaceful, pacifist nation. New Zealand is becoming a mess because of the govts inability to tell someone whos feelings just got hurt to fuck off.

Drive by shootings. We all knew it was going to come one day, but there are so many who still believe that NZ is a peaceful country. Maybe by world standards, MAYBE. Not surprisingly, NZ crime stats are rising dramatically cause of the incompetance of our govt and the unique ability for most NZ citizens to turn a blind eye incase they get hurt.

Let our cops start carrying firearms. And not in the boot of their cars, but on their belts. Screw this tazer bullshit, sure it hurts, but it will do fuckall if the perp has a pistol and he is further away than what the tazer can reach.

Sure the cops would need to improve their range abilities. Someone correct me if Im wrong, but you need a 70% pass mark isnt it? Fuck that, make it 90% and give the cops something to defend themselves. They do a hard enough job with dickheads abusing them for doing their job and then they have to get shit from the public for not protecting others because they are too busy giving out tickets or my favourite is that they are giving out too many tickets and not solving enogh burglaries.

I would feel safer knowing that in the event Im not home and my house gets broken into with MissSniper there alone, that an armed officer would attend the event and have no qwalms about shooting the offender. Fuck knows, it would be better than me finding him when I got home..

Get a govt in that will do something about crime stats and actually give a shit about the average NZ'er rather than what the world thinks of them and start shooting the bastards who are causing the shit.

[Animal]

I second that.

[Indiana_Jones]

I third it.

Fuck this shitty Govt.

-Indy

[MrMelon]

Nah fuck that. If you get a power tripping cop who'll pepper spray someone without warning just because they feel threatened then it goes without saying that some innocent people will be killed by some hyped up trigger happy cops. NZ could do without that thanks.

[Sniper]

Nah fuck that. If you get a power tripping cop who'll pepper spray someone without warning just because they feel threatened then it goes without saying that some innocent people will be killed by some hyped up trigger happy cops. NZ could do without that thanks.

Certain guidelines would have to be established as in any other country in the world, But I would feel safer knowing that a cop could react better when my family was in danger.

Anyway, I bet that dickhead who got peppersprayed wont fucken do whatever he did again.

[Street Gerbil]

Enough of this[...]Get a govt in that will do something about crime stats and actually give a shit about the average NZ'er rather than what the world thinks of them and start shooting the bastards who are causing the shit.
Fuck yeah!


Nah fuck that. If you get a power tripping cop who'll pepper spray someone without warning just because they feel threatened then it goes without saying that some innocent people will be killed by some hyped up trigger happy cops. NZ could do without that thanks.
Right, cops should not carry firearms. Let only criminals have them.
IMO you are confusing the cause with the effect. Make police service desirable by offering a reasonable compensation and decent arms/training to defend citizens/themselves in return for tougher recruitment standards and there will be no power mad cops - just those who serve and protect.

[MrMelon]

Certain guidelines would have to be established as in any other country in the world, But I would feel safer knowing that a cop could react better when my family was in danger.

Anyway, I bet that dickhead who got peppersprayed wont fucken do whatever he did again.

Yeah because guidelines always stop people from doing things they shouldn't. Sure he might not do it again but who's to say another cop who hasn't might have a bad day and make a bad choice. It happens and I'd much rather bad choices didn't have lethal consequences just because they're carrying a lethal weapon rather than a non-lethal one.

Oh right yeah it's all the government's fault..... (not that I'm defending them, but if you think things will dramatically change with a non-labour government you're dreaming)

[Finn]

Okay, Sniper's back and he needs to catch up on his daily post quota. This thread outta do it.

Welcome back Sniper.

[The_Dover]

I think everybody should carry a gun.

A big fuck off shiney one.

Then no one would ever piss anyone else off or do bad things for fear of getting a cup popped in their ass.

[Dai]

Firstly I must state that I agree with the origonal statement but with reservations.

My other sport/passion other than bikes, is shooting.

I frequent a range that also doubles as a police training facility and from what I have seen there I would be very nervous of any officer who has been through that training and feels competent carrying a firearm.

In the past 2 years there have been 3 incidents at this range alonewhere an officer has shot themselves accidently and all of them were due to careless handling. In the civilian sector I know of only one accident in the whole of NZ during this time.

I have seen lax safety and security practices. There are holes in benches where some officer has fired the weapon whilst not actually at a fiing point.

If NZ were to have a fully armed police force then their training methods and practices need to be completely overhauled and the officers taught properly. They would need regular and correctly supervised retaining.

Sorry I rant here but the thought of some of these officers I have seen at the Ardmore range, on the streets, carrying a firearm puts the willies up me.

[Dai]

I think everybody should carry a gun.

A big fuck off shiney one.

Then no one would ever piss anyone else off or do bad things for fear of getting a cup popped in their ass.


Why would any one have a CUP popped in their arse is beyond me.

The mind boggles. "If you dont move I am going to let you have it with this bone china tea cup in the area of your anal orrifice"

[Harry33]

As soon as cops get to carry guns, you can count me in.

[Paul in NZ]

No need to carry guns

Just tell the SAS to pick up a top 100 list from the Police and do the business.

Crime rate would halve overnight.

Violent offending would carry a sentence multiplier based on the level of violence used on the victim, use of a weapon in an assault, automatic 15years. Life means life....

[Deano]

Enough of this, we are a peaceful, pacifist nation.

With a large number of citizens carrying the so called 'warrior gene'.

[Magua]

So gun violence is becoming a problem. I know! Let's escalate the situation by arming more people with guns to deal with gun violence.

Go go sniper.

[The_Dover]

In the words of Tommy Chong (i think and if I'm wrong, shoot me!)

"Guns don't kill people, cops kill people!"

[Ixion]

No need to carry guns

Just tell the SAS to pick up a top 100 list from the Police and do the business.

Crime rate would halve overnight.

Violent offending would carry a sentence multiplier based on the level of violence used on the victim, use of a weapon in an assault, automatic 15years. Life means life....


Don't even need the SAS. I'd bet any money that if the police were allowed to they'd have no trouble putting together a team to take out the top 100. It's the political and judicial willingness that's missing.

Same as how when the cops DO bust a gang HQ, they always find lots of illegal weapons . Plus drugs and heaven knows what. So, why not bust those HQs every week. Every day even. If they start fortifying them, borrow a tank from the Army. If the move, follow them. Just keep busting them up until they give up.

As to the civil liberties aspect. I am quite hot on civil liberties myself. But these are known criminals, consorting. With reasonable grounds to expect that a raid will uncover evidence of criminal activity. A consortium of known felons cannot expect the same treatment as law abiding folk.

[Buster]

How about keeping crims in prison for the full term of their sentence. And make the penalties an actual deterrent instead of the joke they are now.

If guns solved policing problems then the rest of the world would already be a happy place.

[Paul in NZ]

Well here is the first target for practising on...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3818262a10,00.html

apparently the judge thinks at 19 he is redeemable...

I wonder what the kids parents think?

[carver]

i think we should start with letting people defend themselves.
Instead of locking up those who fight back we should encourage it.
Oh..but its against the law...well, change it you idiots!
dont rely on our cops, they only swing by what the politicians tell them to do.
of course they belive we cant be trusted to defend ourselves, its something we must leave entirely to them...see the progress?
Fuck the state, we can run our own lives.

[Timber020]

Cops carrying guns in NZ rates alongside introducing ferrets and stoats to get rid of the rabbit population.

Once cops get guns, the rate of innocent people and cops killed by guns will drastically increase, and thats just from the cops guns, crims will start arming themselves more as well. I have worked alot with armed cops overseas to see what kind of paranoia and trouble it causes.

Welcome back sniper, I see you wish to make up for lost time.

[Sniper]

i think we should start with letting people defend themselves.
Instead of locking up those who snip..........
Fuck the state, we can run our own lives.

Yep, an attitude like that goes a long way :lol:

What I have read so far is also strengthening my beliefs that most NZ'ers believe they are the best and brightest, yet faced with force, their tough man status automatically reverts to the, "Guns are bad, it encourages violence, not enough training, blah,blah." Too full of excuses rather than solutions.

[FilthyLuka]

Nah fuck that. If you get a power tripping cop who'll pepper spray someone without warning just because they feel threatened then it goes without saying that some innocent people will be killed by some hyped up trigger happy cops. NZ could do without that thanks.

You have a choice. Get shot by a trigger happy "gangsta au" or not get shot by the afformentioned gangster because he has a see through skull. Cops that get trigger happy... right... contrary to what you may think, cops still have to abide by the same laws as normal people. If a policeman unlawfully shoots someone, then they go to prison for a LONG time. Stop watching stupid cop films like "bad boys" and realise that police cant shoot everyone and get away with it... yeesh

[FilthyLuka]

Cops carrying guns in NZ rates alongside introducing ferrets and stoats to get rid of the rabbit population.

Once cops get guns, the rate of innocent people and cops killed by guns will drastically increase, and thats just from the cops guns, crims will start arming themselves more as well. I have worked alot with armed cops overseas to see what kind of paranoia and trouble it causes.


i have a knife and im going to kill you now.

option 1) the nice policeman tries to talk me down and i kill you

option 2) he shoots me and i die. you live...

which do you prefer

[carver]

Yep, an attitude like that goes a long way :lol:

What I have read so far is also strengthening my beliefs that most NZ'ers believe they are the best and brightest, yet faced with force, their tough man status automatically reverts to the, "Guns are bad, it encourages violence, not enough training, blah,blah." Too full of excuses rather than solutions.

yeah, your right, on that last one.
most NZers are all talk...all hard till something happens.
i would trust myself to deal with the fucker, as you described in your first post, rather than wait 2 hours- a day for the Fed's to show.
i would still call em though...even though they are overstreched, underfunded and taxation focused.
If i were a theif, i would steer clear of anyone who i suspected owned a Gun or could defend themselves...the cops only catch them later (usually) or not at all.

[Lias]

Our cops should be allowed to carry, and so should joe public.

Pretty much any crim can get guns, hell I can honestly say more than half the people I know who own guns do NOT have a firearms license. Its not hard to get guns if your willing to break the law. If your honest like my mates you just get a friend who does have a license to buy the guns second hand (from cockies are best, because they never worry about paperwork or serial numbers). If your dishonest you just steal em.

[Indiana_Jones]

i have a knife and im going to kill you now.

option 1) the nice policeman tries to talk me down and i kill you

option 2) he shoots me and i die. you live...

which do you prefer

I might have to go with option 2 :D

-Indy

[The_Dover]

Trigger Happy, trigger happy
Got an AK-47, well you know it
makes me feel all right
Got an Uzi by my pillow, helps me
sleep a little better atnight
There's no feeling any
greater
Than to shoot first and ask questions later
Now I'm trigger happy, trigger happy every day

Well you can't take my guns away, I got a
Constitutional right
Yeah, I gotta be ready if the
commies attack us tonight
I'll blow their brains out
with my Smith and Wesson
That out to teach 'em all a
darn good lesson
Now I'm trigger happy, trigger happy
every day

Oh yeah, I'm trigger, trigger happy
Yes, I'm trigger, trigger happy
(Oh baby, I'm)
trigger, trigger happy
Yes, I'm trigger, trigger
happy
(Oh, I'm so) trigger, trigger happy
Yes,
I'm trigger, trigger happy
Better watch out, punk, or
I'm gonna have
To blow you away

Oh, I
accidentally shot Daddy last night in the den
I mistook him
in the dark for a drug-crazed Nazi again
Now why'd you
have to get so mad?
It's just a lousy flesh wound,
Dad
You know I'm trigger happy, trigger happy every
day

Oh, I still haven't figured out the safety
on my rifle yet
Little Fluffy took a round, better take him
to the vet
I filled that kitty cat so full of lead
We'll have to use him for a pencil instead
Well,
I'm trigger happy, trigger happy every day

Oh
yeah, I'm trigger, trigger happy
Yes, I'm
trigger, trigger happy
(Oh baby, I'm) trigger, trigger
happy
Yes, I'm trigger, trigger happy
(Oh,
I'm so) trigger, trigger happy
Yes, I'm trigger,
trigger happy
Better watch out, punk, or I'm gonna
have
To blow you away

Come on and grab your
ammo
What have you got to lose?
We'll all get
liquored up
And shoot at anything that moves

Got
a brand new semi-automatic weapon with a laser sight
Oh,
I'm prayin' somebody tries to break in here tonight
I alwaays keep a Magnum in my trunk
You better ask
yourself, do you feel lucky, punk?
Because I'm trigger
happy, trigger happy every day

[sAsLEX]

borrow a tank from the Army.


Dont have them or F16's or much anymore............

And like they found out at WACO or whatever it was a LAV aint much good against a crazy with a decent sniper rifle, go straight through the armour they have

[DMNTD]

Cops that get trigger happy... right... contrary to what you may think, cops still have to abide by the same laws as normal people. If a policeman unlawfully shoots someone, then they go to prison for a LONG time.

Contrary to what you know not all cops are good decent types...yes there are some that would follow the "rules" but many others that are simply bullies with power. Have experienced it first hand...more than once,or twice...
Hey don't get me wrong I think,like what Ixion said,send them in and waste the gang HQ's,but to have a "flat foot" cruising the streets with a gun? Hell no...also too easy for the cop to get bashed and his weapon stolen.

BTW...you do realise that some cops do have access to weapons in their vehicles eh?

[Skyryder]

Well lets realy give them something like rocket launches to take out the runners.

So a few innocent bystanders get wasted but that's the price for making our roads safer. Read in between the lines here guys.

Skyryder

[Swoop]

Certain guidelines would have to be established.
Just like they have now? ... more paperwork though!

I frequent a range that also doubles as a police training facility
WHAT? They haven't been kicked off??? (yet...) This is why they have had to set up their own range in the industrial area of south Auckland.

In the past 2 years there have been 3 incidents at this range alone where an officer has shot themselves accidently and all of them were due to careless handling.
Poor officer... Multiple wounds...
See above...

In the civilian sector I know of only one accident in the whole of NZ during this time..
Warkworth?
You are obviously NOT referring to the "incident" in the Auckland Central holding cells where an officer dicharged his firearm during a "training excercise"........

I have seen lax safety and security practices. There are holes in benches where some officer has fired the weapon whilst not actually at a fiing point..
Wouldn't be the only one...:whistle:
and security? I hope the amount of "lost" police firearms becomes public knowledge...

If NZ were to have a fully armed police force then their training methods and practices need to be completely overhauled and the officers taught properly. They would need regular and correctly supervised retaining..
If the NZ police are publicly declared as fully armed, I know some folks who will carry, since it is obviously "too dangerous for the Police, so this means the public are in danger as well".

Sorry I rant here but the thought of some of these officers I have seen at the Ardmore range, on the streets, carrying a firearm puts the willies up me.
This is why Ardmore is being closed, so the public have no knowledge of the cock-ups going on there...

As soon as cops get to carry guns, you can count me in.
They already are - but on the quiet...

Same as how when the cops DO bust a gang HQ, they always find lots of illegal weapons . Plus drugs and heaven knows what.
Strange that. Too bad that road taxation has a priority...

i think we should start with letting people defend themselves.
Already a right under the law.

Pretty much any crim can get guns, hell I can honestly say more than half the people I know who own guns do NOT have a firearms license.
Scary...

BTW...you do realise that some cops do have access to weapons in their vehicles eh?
More than what the public are led to believe...

[Lou Girardin]

With recruiting standards falling, I don't want some pimply faced, wet behind the ears, greenhorn shitting himself in fear when some baddie says Boo, and spraying rounds all over the place. It's happened too often as it is.
Some of them can't be trusted with pepper spray.

[FilthyLuka]

BTW...you do realise that some cops do have access to weapons in their vehicles eh?


yep, cops (from what i hear) are also allowed to carry concealed firearms already. hence why you often see mr gestapo wearing a think jumper in winter... i know airport security wear 9mm hole punches aswell...

[sAsLEX]

With recruiting standards falling, I don't want some pimply faced, wet behind the ears, greenhorn shitting himself in fear when some baddie says Boo, and spraying rounds all over the place. It's happened too often as it is.
Some of them can't be trusted with pepper spray.

You can join, and always have been able to, the forces much younger

Play with real guns then.

[dawnrazor]

HEY GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE...BULLETS DO! thanks chris rock


So how has an armed police force in the US reduced crime exactly, it didn't do a great deal for those poor amish children...in fact the oppisite is probably true

At last count there where 640 million guns in circulation in the world approx. and last year there where over 30 thousand people shot dead in the USA alone

I can see a case for carrying guns, but it ain't gonna save anyones life.

[Edbear]

Same as how when the cops DO bust a gang HQ, they always find lots of illegal weapons . Plus drugs and heaven knows what. So, why not bust those HQs every week. Every day even. If they start fortifying them, borrow a tank from the Army. If the move, follow them. Just keep busting them up until they give up.

As to the civil liberties aspect. I am quite hot on civil liberties myself. But these are known criminals, consorting. With reasonable grounds to expect that a raid will uncover evidence of criminal activity. A consortium of known felons cannot expect the same treatment as law abiding folk.




Now, now Ixion! There you go being logical again!:yes:

[Timber020]

i have a knife and im going to kill you now.

option 1) the nice policeman tries to talk me down and i kill you

option 2) he shoots me and i die. you live...

which do you prefer

Option 3) cop gets excited, shoots himself in the foot drawing his weopon, shoots us both in a confused panic reaction. We all get medals.

I liked working with the new york and new jersey cops that carried 2 guns. A main as a side arm, and a "recovered" 38 police special /25 auto in an ankle holster. Used as a back up or a plant if they should shoot someone who wasnt carrying. Not an urban myth, saw it myself.

[kro]

Arm them to the teeth.

[SPman]

Cops with guns?

Not bloody likely - they have enough access to guns, now.
Dont want to give the hyped up power trippers among them, another means of intimidation!

[spudchucka]

Blah blah blah.

Typical KB crapola.

[Skyryder]

HEY GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE...BULLETS DO!

I argued this very thing some time back on some gun forum. It was about the second ammendment issue. OK I said so the second ammendment gives Americans the right to 'bear arms' but where does it say that you have the right to 'bear bullets? Caused a shit storm. I think I finished off by suggestion that triggers should be banned. I had a lot of fun with those guys. Might have something to do why I am so agressive of forums. Those gun forums were my baptism of fire. :beer:

Skyryder

[SwanTiger]

I would like to see statistics on how many NZ Soldiers have killed another human being with a fire arm in the last 5 years compared to the NZ Police for the same period of time.

[Hillbilly]

All the cops carry guns here. I beleive that the weapon of issue is the 9mm Glock 17. The security guards all carry .38 revolvers, and when I say all, I mean all including the women.

Had a Maori idiot running amok on the train to Newcastle. He kept on with all this "Watcha looking at me for - EH? I'll fucken thow you all orf da funkin' train eh!"

Should have seen the look on his face when two Transit Police approached, one from either side and both with their hands on their guns and the holsters unclipped. He seemed to quieten down after that.

[SARGE]

right ... one for the KB Police ..

[jrandom]

Mmmm. Guns.

Guns are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

Guns can kill anyone they want! Guns cut off heads ALL the time and don't even think twice about it. These things are so crazy and awesome that they flip out ALL the time. I heard that there was this gun that was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the gun killed the whole town. My friend Mark said that he saw a gun totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.

And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love guns with all of my body (including my pee-pee).

[jrandom]

second ammendment gives Americans the right to 'bear arms'...

You ever seen a bear arm, dude? They're fucking hairy and smelly, man. Big-ass claws on the end. I wouldn't want one of those things hanging around my place.

[jrandom]

more than half the people I know who own guns do NOT have a firearms license. Its not hard to get guns if your willing to break the law.

True dat, and it's a shame.

Still, the law makes it just about impossible to get pistols or MSSAs that way. So yeah, Hemi Haku Gangbanger can drive by the house of some former associate and spray it with the Remington 7400 his mate picked up on TradeMe last week, but he's only got 7 shots, and he has to pull the trigger separately for each one. And he's SOL if he wants something to carry tucked under a loose shirt.

I feel safer already.

One mitigating approach would be to implement serial number registration of all firearms.

Unfortunately, it wouldn't work.

[Sniper]

One mitigating approach would be to implement serial number registration of all firearms.

Unfortunately, it wouldn't work.

They have that in SA and you are dead right in it doesnt help one little bit. House gets broken into and weapons stolen and then found at a crime scene, who's the one that gets the blame?

A lot of dickheads float round proclaiming that they will take any fucker on or beat the shit out of anyone standing in their way. I've been on the recieving end of pepper spray once and although it wasnt comfortable, it wouldnt slow me one bit. Never been hit by a tazer, but I presume it isnt nice, but you cant hit 2 or 3 people running at you with a tazer can you?

Im talking about police safety rather than we give them something to feel more powerful. Thats why I say, sort out a better qualifying system. 70% isnt good enough, thats 3 collaterals for 7 bad guys. Im sure they could do better.

[spudchucka]

right ... one for the KB Police ..

I prefer the British approach.....

[Monorail]

I 45th (i think i lost count) the motion. NZ needs a serious revamp, something for Sarge to do when he become emperor.

1. Sidearms for all NZ Police... at their sides.
2. Combat Shotguns and M16's in the boot, when you need firepower for multiple hostiles.
3. A counter terrorism unit rather than just the AO. Terrorists are matyrs so we need to blow the hell out of them asap before they blow innocents whereas AO would negotiate first.
4. The seperation of highway patrol and police!!!!

Yea thats about all, maybe Spiderman also. But seriously crime increased like 7-9% in the last annum. I'm planning on trying to be a cop when I leave college but hell unless they bring about some reforms i'd feel safer being a bloody bodyguard in Iraq or someplace. Maybe we need a citizen police force... who wants to form a militia?

[SARGE]

I 45th (i think i lost count) the motion. NZ needs a serious revamp, something for Sarge to do when he become emperor.

1. Sidearms for all NZ Police... at their sides.
2. Combat Shotguns and M16's in the boot, when you need firepower for multiple hostiles.
3. A counter terrorism unit rather than just the AO. Terrorists are matyrs so we need to blow the hell out of them asap before they blow innocents whereas AO would negotiate first.
4. The seperation of highway patrol and police!!!!

Yea thats about all, maybe Spiderman also. But seriously crime increased like 7-9% in the last annum. I'm planning on trying to be a cop when I leave college but hell unless they bring about some reforms i'd feel safer being a bloody bodyguard in Iraq or someplace. Maybe we need a citizen police force... who wants to form a militia?



yup... i feel ya bro

bling awarded

[WINJA]

I Vote Sniper Goes Back To His Own Country

[The_Dover]

I vote SARGE and SNIPER should have a civil union and then go put a few rounds in each other.

[Magua]

I Vote Sniper Goes Back To His Own Country

Seconded. :laugh:

[Lou Girardin]

You can join, and always have been able to, the forces much younger

Play with real guns then.

They don't empty mags at moving cars on public streets.

BTW Does anyone know how many US cops are killed with their own guns each year?

[scumdog]

So the popular consensus on this thread is status quo? (Not the group, dickhead!)

Everybody seems quite happy with the mayhem around the country, 'P' adled dickheads creating mindless violence, gangs doing drive-bys, cretins with big drug debts robbing bank et al.

And then there is the pursruit aspect, too scared to go there.

And the risk of an innocent being pepper-sprayed too (diddums)

And the phoney quota speed ticket thing. (well NOBODY speeds -or speeds dangerously do they?)

So why not disband the police? would save a fortune and there would be no need for a should we/should we not arm the police.

Makes sense to me.
:beer:

[SARGE]

So the popular consensus on this thread is status quo? (Not the group, dickhead!)

Everybody seems quite happy with the mayhem around the country, 'P' adled dickheads creating mindless violence, gangs doing drive-bys, cretins with big drug debts robbing bank et al.


mate .. i have total respect for what you guys do.. if i fuck up and get nailed at 160 kph then i will eat the ticket ( after trying to talk my way out of it n the side of the road naturally) Scummy.. you can confirm tis for me.. in the US on the highway system.. you often see "trains" of 8-10 cars rolling along at 85-90 mph on the open roads.. as long as you are keeping pace with traffic, most cops i know wont look twice.. ( the open road speed limit in the states out of populated areas is 75 mph)

i do NOT agree with speed cameras however but in understand that you guys are under-Resourced and it must be a bitch.. its already a hard job and its made harder by ass-clowns at the top and douchebags at the bottom..you guys are just doing the best you can with what you are given ( although i DO agree with a few people on here that there are a few power-trippers in the NZ Police Force.. all the ones i have met have been good guys .. i ride with a couple... they AINT slow)

i think that NZ, in its present climate, should have a totally armed police force. also very high training and recruitment standards and incentives for the ones that make it .. give you guys the latest police technology ( Tazers, EMP generators in you pursuit cars and computer terminals in-car like they have in the States) and make it easier to do your job ..




so yes .. arm and train you guys to the highest standards ..damn the cost.. just take funds from WINZ and Election spending and NZ really would be the great nation that the tourist pamphlets claim it to be..

just my .02

[Ixion]

,,,
So why not disband the police? would save a fortune and there would be no need for a should we/should we not arm the police.

Makes sense to me.


I have long pondered on that possibility. It is by no means absurd.

Here in Auckland the police have pretty well entirely abandoned most of what used to traditionally be their function.

Police involvement is now restricted to high profile/high publicity crimes, murder and a few other "big ticket" items, traffic, and anything that inconveniences big business.

They have abandoned any more than a perfunctionary interest in preventing , or pursuing, property crime, "minor" assaults (many of which are serious enough to cripple the victim for life), and most of the public order duties of old.

The "gap" thus left has, to at least some extent, been filled by private security forces such as Matrix security. Those guys are on the ball, every week you hear about them catching another lot of burglars, taggers, purse snatchers etc.

So it would seem quite possible to extend that paradigm

Leave the police with traffic , their main interest; the Diplomatic Protection Squad; Armed Offenders; and a core force to deal with "big time" crime - sort of like the FBI in America : murder, rape and such like.

Expand the role of private security forces by setting up legislated training standards and so on. Then allow city councils to contract for maintainance of law and order. Just like they do for other services. This isn't a unique notion: in the USA the Chief of Police is often an elected official.

From the point of view of the police, it would be almost business as usual : they don't do anything more than fill in a form nowadays for that sort of crime anyway. And the public could have as much (or as little) public order policing as they were willing to pay for.

However, in response to the original question, of arming the police (or, rather, visibly arming them), I would suggest that there would be no need for this if the politicians and judges did THEIR duty.

A very great deal of the present lawlessness is due to the fact that perpetrators know that they really have very little to fear. Sentences are a joke, and the willingness of courts to bundle a horrific series of criminal offending into a single concurrent sentence means that once a criminal has committed one crime he has no reason at all to hesitate to commit more.

Sort out the lily livered politicians and the left wing judges. Then see if the police can cut it or not.

[ManDownUnder]

So the popular consensus on this thread is status quo? (Not the group, dickhead!)

Everybody seems quite happy with the mayhem around the country, 'P' adled dickheads creating mindless violence, gangs doing drive-bys, cretins with big drug debts robbing bank et al.

And then there is the pursruit aspect, too scared to go there.

And the risk of an innocent being pepper-sprayed too (diddums)

And the phoney quota speed ticket thing. (well NOBODY speeds -or speeds dangerously do they?)

So why not disband the police? would save a fortune and there would be no need for a should we/should we not arm the police.

Makes sense to me.
:beer:

I'm personally in favour of total accountability. If the cops have guns and use 'em they do so knowing their actions will be under the microscope. Likewise Joe Public.

What annoys ythe hell out of me are the confusing "rules of engagement". If someone is in my house and yelling and threatening and carrying on... at what point is a physical response warranted (or - I should say... accepteable to the courts) and at what point is lethal force warranted.

A lot of you guys know - I'm the first one to say step back, get out of the way, be reasonable. And I maintain that position. As I see it, the problem comes down to culture, and those "rules of engagement"

In Switzerland, every house has a gun in it, and every house has someone that's been in the military (i.e.... knows how to use said gun on anyone dumb enough to warrant it). The crime rate and number of shootings/firearm related crimes in CH is very very low. It's not the done thing, and if you did do something dumb you can really really expect to pay.

In the US... a lot of guns (in some states anyway), but the culture is more one of an entitlement to protect and defend your own. Less training than CH and I personally believe that's a major contributor to the higher gun related crime rate there.

In NZ... we have a lot of wannabe gangsters that grew up on video games, would be lucky if they've ever actually held a gun and when they get one in their hands they see it as the ultimate answer to all their juvenile woes. They suddently have power, and can do anything they want knowing those on the receiving end probably don't have a gun. That includes the police.

So - should the Police in NZ have guns? I'd ptrefer them not to, but recognise they probably need them. I'd also suggest that the change go hand in hand with an overall move to make crime less acceptable, and to empower the general public.

If I have someone break into my house, I'll yell at them to get out, and if they don't I reserve the right to escalate it. I'd like to know the neighbours can come and help, holding the bastards down (and not get done for assault), adn I'd like to know the court will sensibly interpret my actions and hold me reasonably accountable for them.

Too much PC BS around at the moment. If the best thing to do is tie some idiots hands together while I deal with the mess they made, then I'd like to be able to do that, call the cops and look after my family.

Can we do that in NZ? No. Can a crim reasonbably expect to get away with blue murder (literally...)... yes.

[Deano]

understand that you guys are under-Resourced


Is this a bigger factor in crime reduction in NZ, more so than armed Police ?

[SARGE]

Is this a bigger factor in crime reduction in NZ, more so than armed Police ?

i see it as a bit of mis-management of available resources.. too much time spent on traffic enforcement and not enough on where it counts .. with the increase in crime statistics .. i think it would be a better use of what the NZ Police have to concentrate more on crime than 111 kph.. yes we DO need some traffic enforcement .. i admit that .. but i think dealing with the bigger shit is necessary at this time .. pop some more private security on the streets and let them deal with the taggers and drunks.. let the cops deal with the burglaries, violent crimes and domestic issues ..


arm the Police or the Population.. NZ is at the point where it needs to be one or the other of them.. i prefer the Police ..

[scumdog]

Is this a bigger factor in crime reduction in NZ, more so than armed Police ?

True, very true.

But that's just MY opinion, bosses think otherwise, i.e. we've got enough spare cops hanging around to send some to the 9/11 Memorial Service and do a Haka, we've got enough cops spare to send to the Solomons & East Timor (in todays ODT there's an article about two Dunners cops staying there for a 2nd six-month stint) etc etc etc.
(WTF have the shiney-bums not noticed that we've enough problems at home???):mad:

[ManDownUnder]

True, very true.

But that's just MY opinion, bosses think otherwise, i.e. we've got enough spare cops hanging around to send some to the 9/11 Memorial Service and do a Haka, we've got enough cops spare to send to the Solomons & East Timor (in todays ODT there's an article about two Dunners cops staying there for a 2nd six-month stint) etc etc etc.
(WTF have the shiney-bums not noticed that we've enough problems at home???):mad:

It's an age old problem - people are always keen to help others... and don't realise they need to fix their own damned problems first. Combine that with international diplomacy and you have a mass deployment of NZ cops to our immediate detriment.

[McJim]

The police don't offer enough salary to employ the brightest and best - sheesh New Zealand employers have been chasing their best employees overseas for the last decade with their bread line salaries but that's another argument.

Bottom line is that Police starting salary is little better than that of someone stacking shelves in Manchester - would you allow a Manc shelf stacker carry a sidearm? Neither would I.

Special response teams with arms but every single bobby on the beat - not for me. Police are people like us and are therefore fallible, like us. I'd like to know the officer with a gun has proven their judgement is sound with a good decade in the force before being allowed a machine that was invented to kill people.

I still think they should get rid of their Big Engined fleet and buy some proper cars instead - this will free up the money to pay for proper officers - no one below the age of 25 for example (under developed frontal lobe - poor judgement calls)

my 2c