Were The Doors, the first punk band?

[hXc]

I just read this article about Jim Morrison/The Doors and the writer says he believes that The Doors were the first punk band. What are your opinions?

I personally think, no. Punk is rebellion -yes, and The Doors certainly rebelled against a lot, but they're still not punk. Punk had a certain type of rebellion about it that I can't really describe. Any true music fan will know that punk is not all about the music, more so about the attitude.

Those are just my thoughts. Here's the article here for those interested. What are your thoughts?

[Finn]

The Ramones! :Punk:

[Deano]

No way were the Doors punk.

Black Flag was the first USA punk rock band.

[MSTRS]

Doors were in a genre of their - hard to pigeonhole...perhaps poetry, mixed to blues and stirred with psychodelia

[Deano]

Are you guys in separate rooms, communicating via KB forum ???

Is this 'modern parent/child communication' ?? LOL

[Finn]

Doors were in a genre of their - hard to pigeonhole...perhaps poetry, mixed to blues and stirred with psychodelia

Not to forget a shit load of mind altering drugs.

[MSTRS]

Are you guys in separate rooms, communicating via KB forum ???

Is this 'modern parent/child communication' ?? LOL

Yep we in separate rooms (his feet smell for a start)...
you could be right there

[SARGE]

define ' Punk'

i think the Beatles were one of the first punkers..

[hXc]

Yep we in separate rooms (his feet smell for a start)...Well that's the pot calling the kettle black. Although, seeing as it's you, it's more like the BLACK pot, calling the kettle black:chase:

[MSTRS]

Well that's the pot calling the kettle black. ,....

like roses....:whistle:

[hXc]

define ' Punk'
A type of rock-'n'-roll, reaching its peak in the late 1970s and characterized by loud, insistent music and abusive or violent protest lyrics, and whose performers and followers are distinguished by extremes of dress and socially defiant behavior. A style or movement characterized by the adoption of aggressively unconventional and often bizarre or shocking clothing, hairstyles, makeup, etc., and the defiance of social norms of behavior, usually associated with punk rock musicians and fans.

There's a meaning, but I don't really know. Defining music styles isn't something I'm good at

[Maha]

Never rated the doors, never really use to hear their music till the 'DOORS' movie came out staring Val Kilmer i think?....then it was...OMG this band is fucken' great, 'Break on thru' and 'Riders' are ok songs but it stops there with me...as for being punk?..........:killingme

[yungatart]

Its the lyrics that made The Doors, more so than the music, in a lot of ways.
Morrison was a gifted poet, but I'm not sure that I would call them punk

[hXc]

Its the lyrics that made The Doors, more so than the music, in a lot of ways.
Morrison was a gifted poet, but I'm not sure that I would call them punk
Yeah, Jimmy boy was indeed gifted writer. He did have a few problems, but he sure made the pen and paper fall in love many times.

RIP buddy

[Dai]

If one were to research the history of music one would find that there are a large number of instances where it is found to be rebellious and not mainstream.

I do not profess to be in any way an expert or even knowledgable in this field but somewhere in my dim past I seem to recall reports of the very same discussion in the days of Mozart, who was at the time considered rebellious and contrary to all acepted musical norms of the time.


On another note I have been a Doors fan for a very long time and was in London in the punk era. There is no way that I could compare the two.

I saw the Sex Pistols and a lot of other punk groups there and to compare the two genres is imho an exercise in futility.

[The_Dover]

I think the doors are vastly over rated but did have a couple of catchy numbers.

That dude could play the organ pretty well but it was a bit like pop idol. Based on teh hype and the drugs more than the music.

I think the Monkees were much better musicians.

[HDTboy]

The Doors aren't punk. The sex pistols and the ramones are punk

[yungatart]

But music from the UK is sooooo different to what comes out of the US anyway, even within the same genre, so to compare The Doors to the Sex Pistols is like comparing Yamahas to HD's....

[yungatart]

. The sex pistols and the ramones are punk

So are Greenday, apparently!

[Maha]

.

RIP buddy


He wouldn't want to rest in piece...he will be trying to get into Joplin's pants...:lol:

[SARGE]

A type of rock-'n'-roll, reaching its peak in the late 1970s and characterized by loud, insistent music and abusive or violent protest lyrics, and whose performers and followers are distinguished by extremes of dress and socially defiant behavior. A style or movement characterized by the adoption of aggressively unconventional and often bizarre or shocking clothing, hairstyles, makeup, etc., and the defiance of social norms of behavior, usually associated with punk rock musicians and fans.

There's a meaning, but I don't really know. Defining music styles isn't something I'm good at


ok.. using that definition..the Beatles.. David Bowie, Rolling Stones.. Steppenwolf, Chuck Berry, Johnny Cash.. Little Richard, Joan Baez, Jackie Wilson..

during the 50's and 60's.. Rock n Roll was a new music style that pissed off post war big band parents.. Elvis' performances were banned from some cities, the Beatles were too..the Stones had a knack of pushing the envelope at the best of times ..the psychedelic movement and the flower children in San Fran and such were way outside the social norm.. Jefferson Airplane, Jimi Hendrix, the Doors, the Grateful Dead and Iron Butterfly were all deemed "socially unacceptable" by the older generation

i lived 30 miles from Woodstock when it was going on .. saw all the hippies in the micro-buses and converted school buses .. Mom had the presence of mind to grab a poster for it and i still have it framed to this day


my first ' mosh pit' was the Ramones.. last was Metallica

[James Deuce]

No. The Doors were a pack of softcocks with no Bass Player and good chunk of their success came from lyrics written by people other than Jim Morrison.

I think Black Flag probably signalled the start of the Punk movement. Too much artifice to the Ramones, and the Sex Pistols did a lot to kill the first wave of punk.

[Big Dave]

Malcolm Mclaren devised 'Punk' as a marketing ploy.

[Big Dave]

I think the Monkees were much better musicians.

Some of them couldn't actually play when the TV studio put the band together. They were actors who learnt to play for the gig is wot I read.

[thatHurt]

the stooges, mc5, new york dolls

[MSTRS]

I guess it would be fair to say that any new, anti-establishment music style could be termed punk...but it never takes long to be copied/duplicated by lots of wannabees - at that point, it becomes 'mainstream' and is no longer punk:chase:

[The_Dover]

Some of them couldn't actually play when the TV studio put the band together. They were actors who learnt to play for the gig is wot I read.

Yeah right, next you're gonna tell me that Milli Vanilli were fake.........

[skelstar]

Ive heard that the Talking Heads are generally regarded as a punk band, or at least started as one.

[riffer]

Damn. As I was typing MC5 and Iggy and the Stooges I noticed thatHurt's post. You're spot on mate.

As an aside, I scored mp3's of Discharge's "Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing", "Why?" and "Never Again" albums the other day. Very pleased, as my records were rooted. Always good to hear that first crossover punk metal stuff again.

[James Deuce]

Some of them couldn't actually play when the TV studio put the band together. They were actors who learnt to play for the gig is wot I read.

Except Michael Nesmith and Peter Tork. Both were performers and songwriters prior to the Monkees.

Micky Dolenz couldn't play drums when he started, but added a few new concepts to the drum kit lexicon by the time he'd finished.

The less said about Davy Jones, the better.

[SARGE]

Except Michael Nesmith and Peter Tork. Both were performers and songwriters prior to the Monkees.

Micky Dolenz couldn't play drums when he started, but added a few new concepts to the drum kit lexicon by the time he'd finished.

The less said about Davy Jones, the better.

oi!! .. lay off Davy!!!

[James Deuce]

oi!! .. lay off Davy!!!

Certainly wouldn't lay on him.

[Maha]

Well, im a believer.........:banana:

[James Deuce]

And a Homecoming Queen.

[yungatart]

But, Davy Jones was sooo cute!!

[Swoop]

Elvis' performances were banned from some cities,

With good reason.....

[MSTRS]

But, Davy Jones was sooo cute!!

:sick: :puke:

[Maha]

But, Davy Jones was sooo cute!!

So was David cassidy, but have you seem him in recent time's....:lol:

ps: my dear lovely female fiance' told me that, i wouldn't really know?.....:whistle:

[Indiana_Jones]

I just read this article about Jim Morrison/The Doors and the writer says he believes that The Doors were the first punk band. What are your opinions?

I personally think, no. Punk is rebellion -yes, and The Doors certainly rebelled against a lot, but they're still not punk. Punk had a certain type of rebellion about it that I can't really describe. Any true music fan will know that punk is not all about the music, more so about the attitude.

Those are just my thoughts. Here's the article here for those interested. What are your thoughts?

Well if you class it by rebellion, then Elvis etc are punk.

But the Pistols & Clash are teh punk, punk 77-79. dead now.

-Indy

[Maha]

With good reason.....

Elvis ?......Yeah fuck.....never thought he was any good either.....Millions did but not me

[yungatart]

So was David cassidy, but have you seem him in recent time's....:lol:

ps: my dear lovely female fiance' told that, i wouldn't really know?.....:whistle:

Yeah right, I believe you MM!
As for you Mstrs, well I married you cos I thought you were pretty cute too! So now whaddya say??? Hmmmmm

[Skyryder]

define ' Punk'

Loud fucking 'noise' masqurading as music.

Skyryder

[Motu]

Audiences walked out of Louis Armstrongs shows,they were totaly freaked with what he was doing to music,breaking all the rules - you wouldn't have a guitar solo today if it wasn't for Satchmo....or scat.They also walked out on Frank Sinatra in disgust,what he was singing wasn't music.

I would put The Who and The Small Faces as the first bands who didn't give a fuck what anyone thought....if you call that attitude punk.

[SARGE]

With good reason.....

alright alright .. first you dicks pick on Davy.. now Elvis ..

whos next ?? .. the Wiggles??

im gonna go postal..




interesting side note .. my pop went to Boot Camp with Elvis .. one night they were playing poker in Germany when dad was a Tanker.. pop won $10 off Elvis in a poker game .. autographed and all... mom wanted to frame it ...


dad needed smokes... :doh:

[Big Dave]

I would put The Who and The Small Faces as the first bands who didn't give a fuck what anyone thought....if you call that attitude punk.

Jerry Lee Lewis?

[Maha]

Audiences walked out of Louis Armstrongs shows,they were totaly freaked with what he was doing to music,breaking all the rules - you wouldn't have a guitar solo today if it wasn't for Satchmo....or scat.They also walked out on Frank Sinatra in disgust,what he was singing wasn't music.

I would put The Who and The Small Faces as the first bands who didn't give a fuck what anyone thought....if you call that attitude punk.

I just thought they were scared shitless of his 'breast' sized black cheek's when he blew...:whistle:

[SARGE]

Audiences walked out of Louis Armstrongs shows,they were totaly freaked with what he was doing to music,breaking all the rules - you wouldn't have a guitar solo today if it wasn't for Satchmo....or scat.They also walked out on Frank Sinatra in disgust,what he was singing wasn't music.

I would put The Who and The Small Faces as the first bands who didn't give a fuck what anyone thought....if you call that attitude punk.

you must first spread some reputation .. yadda yadda


also a huge Who fan .. i found a DVD of Tommy at the Warehouse the other day ..

[Indiana_Jones]

Jerry Lee Lewis?


<img src="http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t638/T638289A.jpg">

GREAT BALLS OF FIRE!

-Indy

[Skyryder]

The Doors? Psychodelic rock. One of the better 'bent' bands. Morrison was so often out of his tree that you could plant a forest with him.

Skyryder

[Maha]

you must first spread some reputation .. yadda yadda


also a huge Who fan .. i found a DVD of Tommy at the Warehouse the other day ..

Tell me you didnt buy it?......:lol:
Are you ....deaf, dumb and blind?.....:cool:

[MSTRS]

Yeah right, I believe you MM!
As for you Mstrs, well I married you cos I thought you were pretty cute too! So now whaddya say??? Hmmmmm

Least you got one right!:cool:

[SARGE]

Tell me you didnt buy it?......:lol:

hell yes i did .. spent friday night watching the Wall, Tommy and A Hard Day's Night and having a few festive beverages .. :whistle:

[dawnrazor]

Is that THE marilyn manson writing that piece, if so he might have a slightly slanted view point.

But to say anyone was PUNK before PUNK had been defined is a bit like calling daVinci a surrealist, because he ticks a couple of the boxes, and was a bit strange for his day and did things differently.

Anyway, everyone knows theres no such thing as punk, 'cus once you label it man it ceases to exist.

[Maha]

once you label it, man it ceases to exist.


Fuck !!!!!!!... so my Triumph no longer exist ???.....:(

[Motu]

To me what identified Punk was a total disregard for music - they weren't experimenting and breaking boundries,they wanted to break the whole perfection of the thing.So we can really disregard the musicians from this discusion.

[hXc]

Thanks for the replies. I thought it was quite interesting, even if it was a bunch of crap.

[MattRSK]

us punks hate studio quality sound!

[James Deuce]

Fuck !!!!!!!... so my Triumph no longer exist ???.....:(

Wow. Existentialism on a motorcycle forum.

[dawnrazor]

Fuck !!!!!!!... so my Triumph no longer exist ???.....:(

GONE :chase:

[hXc]

us punks hate studio quality sound!
I have to share my love for you. Matt. Sorry bud:crybaby:

[Skyryder]

Some of them couldn't actually play when the TV studio put the band together. They were actors who learnt to play for the gig is wot I read.

Not true. They were all musicians. That myth has evolved from the fact that from the first they were actors in the TV show of the same name and were recuited primarily for that role. Later they both played and sang. Mike Nesbeth was the only talented muso among them. The other three were all middling. I read somewhere but do not know how true this is that the TV show was formatted from A Hard Days Night. The monkees were priamarly created to emulate the zany Beatle thing. Sort of failed a bit as they became a hit in their own right.

Skyryder

[Big Dave]

Wow. Existentialism on a motorcycle forum.

I yam what I yam, aha?

[Big Dave]

Not true. They were all musicians. That myth has evolved from the fact that from the first they were actors in the TV show of the same name and were recuited primarily for that role. Later they both played and sang. Mike Nesbeth was the only talented muso among them. The other three were all middling. I read somewhere but do not know how true this is that the TV show was formatted from A Hard Days Night. The monkees were priamarly created to emulate the zany Beatle thing. Sort of failed a bit as they became a hit in their own right.

Skyryder


I can clearly remember watching Mickey Dolenz stick his head out a barrel on the opening credits of 'Circus Boy'.
And reading the people mag story of the band as it 'twer 'appenin'!


Also Monkey-wise - the tune 'Goin' Down' is somewhat rare but one of the great Jazz-rock fusion songs of all time.

[MattRSK]

I have to share my love for you. Matt. Sorry bud:crybaby:

Should I be worried?

[Motu]

I just thought they were scared shitless of his 'breast' sized black cheek's when he blew...:whistle:

You're thinking of Dizzy - the angled trumpet and balloon cheeks,Satchmo was smarter than that.People also think Louis Armstrong couldn't sing,but they are only listening to the gravely voice,the guy could sing as well as he could play the trumpet.Arguably the most influencial musician in recorded history.....argue on.....

[Swoop]

if it wasn't for Satchmo....or scat.

Ewwww.....

[MattRSK]

Arguably the most influencial musician in recorded history.....argue on.....

Eddie Vedder

[James Deuce]

Matt, Matt, Matt.

Bahahahahahahahaaaa

[MattRSK]

Matt, Matt, Matt.

Bahahahahahahahaaaa


When Im as old as you, I will be telling the kiddies that Eddie Vedder was Arguably the most influencial musician in recorded history. And if they disagree, they get the bash. Simple.

[dawnrazor]

I yam what I yam, aha?

so your a chinese potatoe then, ahso, ya ken?

[Big Dave]

Arguably the most influencial musician in recorded history.....argue on.....

Recorded History I'd still go:
Beethoven.
Mozart.

Recording History:
John Lennon + 3
Elvis
Chuck Berry.

[Big Dave]

so your a chinese potatoe then, ahso, ya ken?

eye - with a thick skin. chip off the old turnip.

[Skyryder]

Not true. They were all musicians. That myth has evolved from the fact that from the first they were actors in the TV show of the same name and were recuited primarily for that role. Later they both played and sang. Mike Nesbeth was the only talented muso among them. The other three were all middling. I read somewhere but do not know how true this is that the TV show was formatted from A Hard Days Night. The monkees were priamarly created to emulate the zany Beatle thing. Sort of failed a bit as they became a hit in their own right.Skyryder

This from Wikipedia and might add someweight to the myth that the Monkeeswere not musicians. I've itallicised the relevent sentance.

While the Monkees did succeed in ousting supervisor Don Kirshner (with Nesmith punching a hole in a wall, to make a point with Kirshner and attorney Herb Moelis), and took control of their records and song choices, sales dipped. The band never overcame the credibility problems they faced when word got out (at Nesmith's instigation, calling the band's first non-studio press conference, where he called More of The Monkees "probably the worst record in the history of the world") that they had not played on their first records.

Skyryder

[SARGE]

us punks hate studio quality sound!

AHA!!!!.. you aint a punk if you label yourself as one !!!!


god .. my head hurts now ..

[cynna]

so fucken wot - if you want punk then the anti nowhere league are in nz nov 16 in chch then wellington then auckland

[dawnrazor]

eye - with a thick skin. chip off the old turnip.

have yeah gone a bit woodie?

Oh god that sounds all wrong....but not bad for a swede

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://events.clowningaround.com/images/Lookalike%20Photos/buddy%20holly.jpg">

RAVE ON!

-Indy

[Drum]

The Ramones are frequently credited as being the first punk band.

I once saw an interview with Joey Ramone, and he credited The Eagles for the creation of punk. "I hated The Eagles so much, that we decided to make a whole new kind of music".

[Winston001]

Odd. No-one has mentioned the real progenitors of punk - The Velvet Underground in 1971. Lou Reed and the boys were away ahead of their time.

[SARGE]

RAVE ON!

-Indy

i swear to god Indy.. im coming over and taking the charges for going over my download cap out of your skinny white bread ass..

[Winston001]

Ive heard that the Talking Heads are generally regarded as a punk band, or at least started as one.

Not quite. There were two rock movements which developed from about 1976 as a reaction by younger musicians against glam rock and heavy guitar based rock.

The first was Punk, the signature of which was a raw in-your-face performance of pure energy. Screaming lyrics, appalling musicianship, deliberate blood-letting onstage. Chris Knox and The Enemy, of Dunedin vividly come to mind. The audience pogoed and slam danced. Punk was dangerous (or so adults thought) and exciting. Sigh.

The other movement which came a year or so later was New Wave - of which Talking Heads and Devo are a good example.

New Wave was more of a middle-class radio-friendly sound. Cerebral, melodic, but still using hypnotic bass rhythms which set it apart from heavy rock - which itself was becoming known as heavy metal.

Must get my Sex Pistols album out. :2thumbsup

[Hillbilly]

C'mon! Everyone knows that The Sex Pistols were the first Punk Band. The Doors Punk??? Don't think so! Their music's great but they were never a punk rock band. How could they be? The movement didn't start until 1976, and it's from the UK, not the US!

BTW, seen The Ramones, Madness, The Boomtown Rats, UK Squeeze, Stiff Little Fingers, Tubeway Army, The Members and many more real punk bands live in concert.

[Indiana_Jones]

i swear to god Indy.. im coming over and taking the charges for going over my download cap out of your skinny white bread ass..

it's like a 26KB pic lol

-Indy

[MSTRS]

C'mon! Everyone knows that The Sex Pistols were the first Punk Band. The Doors Punk??? Don't think so! Their music's great but they were never a punk rock band. How could they be? The movement didn't start until 1976, and it's from the UK, not the US!

BTW, seen The Ramones, Madness, The Boomtown Rats, UK Squeeze, Stiff Little Fingers, Tubeway Army, The Members and many more real punk bands live in concert.

Agree with punk coming from UK. The word 'punk' is american but not ascribed to a music style/movement until the SexPistols AFAIK.
Always thought Madness were Ska ???

[Dai]

Agree with punk coming from UK. The word 'punk' is american but not ascribed to a music style/movement until the SexPistols AFAIK.
Always thought Madness were Ska ???

And I always thought that the Boomtown Rats were a bunch of tossers. The best part of Bob Geldof was the stain his daddy and mummy left on the sheets.

(worked for the pratt twice. early days for the 'Rats, Live Aid for Geldof.)

[cynna]

Always thought Madness were Ska ???

speaking of ska did anyone else catch the beat playing this week. didnt see them when they last came 25 years but those that did reckon they are just as good today

[Big Dave]

it's like a 26KB pic lol

-Indy

The correct Amewican response is: 'Fuck 'im and feed 'im catfish.

[SARGE]

it's like a 26KB pic lol

-Indy

coupled with the OTHER 45 mb of shit in your posts ..


find a new toy

[SARGE]

The correct Amewican response is: 'Fuck 'im and feed 'im catfish.

fuck id LOVE a big mess o' Catfish right about now ..

[Big Dave]

fuck id LOVE a big mess o' Catfish right about now ..

Are the edible - I though they were 'bait'. Aussie one are - like carp.

[SARGE]

Are the edible - I though they were 'bait'. Aussie one are - like carp.

man.. they are SO edible .. battered in Cornmeal and beer and deep fried.. served up with a glop of tartar sauce and a big mess o coleslaw and an ice cold beer

the river cats grow big enough to feed a family of 6.. heads bigger than a goldwing engine.. they are some FIGHTIN bastards too when you hook em up

[Hillbilly]

Agree with punk coming from UK. The word 'punk' is american but not ascribed to a music style/movement until the SexPistols AFAIK.
Always thought Madness were Ska ???

Yeah, still they had a following of skinheads and punks. Like the Specials and The Selector too, as well as Bad Manners.

The Boomtown rats went downhill after they bought out "I don't like Mondays". At their concert in Auckland Geldorf said "This song is for all the Maoris". It's a laugh the Geldorf originally put down Mick Jagger, but ended up being a Jagger wannabe.

[MattRSK]

man.. they are SO edible .. battered in Cornmeal and beer and deep fried.. served up with a glop of tartar sauce and a big mess o coleslaw and an ice cold beer

the river cats grow big enough to feed a family of 6.. heads bigger than a goldwing engine.. they are some FIGHTIN bastards too when you hook em up

Thats so Punk!

[SARGE]

Thats so Punk!

ahhh... therein lies the rub..


its punk because its NOT

[MattRSK]

ahhh... therein lies the rub..


its punk because its NOT

But now its not because you labelled it! :lol:

[SARGE]

But now its not because you labelled it! :lol:

damn..........

[hXc]

Billie-Joe Armstrong from the band Greenday, has a quote which I really like: "A guy walks up to me and asks, 'What's Punk?'. So I kick over a garbage can and say, 'That's Punk!'. So he kicks over a garbage can and says, 'That's Punk?', and I say 'No, that's trendy!' "

[Big Dave]

It was this guy I tells ya.

http://www.answers.com/topic/malcolm-mclaren

[MacD]

Though not really Punk, I'm surprised noboby has mentioned the Stranglers yet.

I don't imagine you see shows like this in Battersea Park (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ude3Y4sy8s&search=the%20stranglers)any more?

They also did the best version of Walk on By (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mzHbY_ikoE)!

And while we're on the topic of Ska (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7cGTAPKcvE)...

:woohoo:

By the way Sarge, you can get Catfish from the Waikato (http://www.doc.govt.nz/Conservation/002~Animal-Pests/Pest-Fish-(Freshwater)/Catfish.asp) if you want one!