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SpankMe
10th May 2003, 20:40
<img src="/images/logo1.gif" alt="This logo is the property of Kiwi Biker. Copyright © 2003" align="right">Not sure what to think of <a href="http://www.socalsvriders.com">other sites</a> using our logo. It was created for our site by two of our members, <a href="/forums/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=118">Gixxer</a> and <a href="/forums/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=175">p0stal</a>, and they did a great job. So should their work be available to anyone to use or should we be more corporate about this and legally copyright it or just politely ask others to remove the logo when found using it.

If we are to copyright it, maybe someone can give me some legal advice about what are my options.

MikeL
10th May 2003, 22:34
From memory (when I ran my own business and had to worry about such things) you would have to register the logo and that would cost a couple of hundred dollars. And then if you thought that someone was infringing the copyright you would have to threaten to take them to court. You would of course have a very strong case and probably a suitably worded letter would suffice, but if a large and wealthy company wanted to call your bluff they could make things very difficult. Alternatively you could just use the logo without copyrighting it but you are even more vulnerable because someone could register the logo subsequently, and you would have to prove prior use. Either way the only way to enforce a copyright claim is to take civil legal action and there is always expense and risk involved. Who would be prepared to carry it through?

SpankMe
10th May 2003, 23:00
Apparently socalSVriders had already asked permission to use the logo, so that’s ok with me. I also don’t fancy paying hundreds of dollars to copyright it.

I do see a lot of sites that have the &copy; symbol but I doubt that they have actually gone through the legal process of making their content copyrighted. Does doing this give you any legal status?

MacD
10th May 2003, 23:15
From my understanding of what the lawyers tried to tell us about copyright at work, your rights under the copyright act are automatic when you create and publish a work (in this case the logo). You may be thinking of the costs involved in trade marking the logo?

The NZ Copyright Council website (http://www.copyright.org.nz) seems to confirm my recollection.

A logo would be considered an artistic work. Interestingly, when we asked the copyright people specific questions about what actually was allowed under the copyright act in terms of copying and reproducing material (this was for research/study purposes) they suddenly became very vague in their responses!

[edit: found a brief discussion about trademarks and copyright here (http://www.howtoadvertise.co.nz/trademark.shtml)]

wari
12th May 2003, 09:11
I dont know about the copywriting issue , it might be more hassle than ... but ... I'm not keen to see others use the logo for themselves. After all the logo is all about identification of who you are and represent.

Its a very cool graphic !

Dave
12th May 2003, 13:42
Very cool logo-should be free for anyone to use for the purpose of links or publicising this site but you would have to draw the line at people ripping off for their own good.

bikerboy
12th May 2003, 18:51
:o Just remember guys, if the logo is used/allowed to be used by others it weakens any case to restrict use later.

If some are allowed and then objections raised when another uses it, there will be little sympathy in making copyright infringement claims.
Also get any request to use the logo in writting and give any permission or refusal to use in writing. This will strengthen any infringement claims as it shows an effort to control use. :done:

Cuban
16th May 2003, 19:44
I misunderstood the question and voted incorrectly, doh!

I think that the logo should stay with the kiwibiker site, so i would have no problem with other sites using it with the web addy under it( yeah, like they want to advertise for free).I think a polite ask to remove our members work without our permission, followed by vague threats, should be enough.

However if the screen printers were offering our design to other companies and customers etc for a logo or graphic for their use, i think thats when we'd have to lay some collective legal smackdown,(keep an eye on em spankme!)

On the other hand, and don't take this the wrong way, but i wouldn;t like to see it belong to anyone either, yes it was fabricated by two of our members, but i think it was also after a fair bit of discussion and consideration between all those who viewed the idea and drove it. If it was trademarked/copyrighted, who own it, the site or spankme?who would fund any case should a bluff be called?And should it prove to be a valuable marketing logo(haha), where do the profits go, after site maintenance is taken care of, for something that many people had a pert in creating?

All unlikely scenarios, but something to ponder.

cheers all,

bluninja
10th June 2003, 10:53
Just been to the socalsvriders forum and they have the kiwibiker logo splashed at the top of the front page, with no ref back to kiwbiker...shame there's no credit there for the pople that created it.

TTFN

SPman
10th June 2003, 19:36
Just been there - no sign of logo......did you scare them off Simon?

bluninja
11th June 2003, 12:19
<IMG alt="click here to register for the Gathering" src="http://www.socalsvriders.com/images/gathering2.gif" border=0> (http://www.socalsvriders.com/gathering.php)

SPman
12th June 2003, 00:54
...................nope.................

Antallica
12th June 2003, 06:56
Argh... :mad:

That's just sad of them to do that, it could be worse though. It could be a NZ club that advertises with that logo locally... now that would be a bummer.

bikerboy
12th June 2003, 10:19
:o Has anyone seem the t-shirts they are selling on that site, see Bluninja's post , then look under " merchandise ".

:argh: I don't know how to do the link thing!

What?
12th June 2003, 10:43
It says on the site that the logo is used by permission of Dan Packer; is this true?&nbsp;Also gives a hyperlink to this site.

Cuban
12th June 2003, 11:27
yeah, having had a look at the svriders club, i dont like it. i had a charitable heart and all that earlier but now i think the best thing to do is to copyright the beast.Somehow have it done in kiwibikers name or something, but i have to say i dont like the way they are using it at all...

(on another topic, i logged in and it called me mackd,anyone know why?)

Tim

bikerboy
12th June 2003, 18:19
At first I thought if someone wanted to have the image only on their site or something, no big deal. However seeing the image with someone elses name as part of the design seems wrong.:(

Maybe it needs to be rethought and the copyright issue investigated properly, cost wise at least.:confused:

SPman
12th June 2003, 19:20
It does seem wrong, seeing it on someone elses site!:angry2:

Perhaps we should go in and flame them :cool:

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-AU; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."</SPAN>

SpankMe
12th June 2003, 19:25
SoCalSVrider did ask permission from p0stal who did the graphic design for our logo, so thats ok. So long as they only use it for their "gathering" event and nothing else, its ok with me. No one else will be given permission to use it thou.

SPman
12th June 2003, 19:27
So its kosher.

Thats OK then.:niceone:

&nbsp;

Thanks for clearing it up:)

bluninja
13th June 2003, 13:17
SpankMe thanks for clearing that up.

TTFN

Cuban
13th June 2003, 13:23
But they have it on their tshirts aswell, or is this the same design use you were talking about?

Tim

SpankMe
13th June 2003, 13:41
We certainly did not ok this use of our logo for their shirts. :angry2: Small graphic ok, but not for <a href="http://www.socalsvriders.com/shop/">shirt sale</a>. :angry2:

Looking for immediate legal advice on sending a cease and desist email to them :argh:

Cuban
13th June 2003, 13:58
Ill have a look spankme, i can talk to some people(lawyer dudes) and see what they say.Thats what i saw before. I say copyright the bitch, dunno underwho or how, but i think that if they get it, they can stop us using it.

Ill see what i can do but maybe before you say anything to them we should get it copyrighted, so they dont beat us to the punch...

Tim

SpankMe
13th June 2003, 14:22
:Oops: Got so pissed I sent a message to them using their online form, telling them to remove the shirts. But I don’t see how they can copyright something that we can prove was originally designed by our own members.

Anyway, I don't want to put them out too much. I support any bike site, especially a SV bike site :) Best thing to do is come to a compromise with them for it’s TEMPORARY use <img src="/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif">

bluninja
13th June 2003, 14:41
SpankMe how about some financial support from their site to this. After all they are benefitting out of this site. I can't do any of the downloads from their site either so I think it's all a bit of a swizz. Aparently I'm not an active member according to download central.

TTFN

SpankMe
13th June 2003, 15:42
I'd like to say thanks to Paul at SoCalSVRiders for removing the logo and shirts from their site so quickly after sending my short (and blunt) message to them about it. They got a great site, but the logo should stay just with Kiwi Biker.

franco
13th June 2003, 23:42
Ya know, at the beginning of this I voted for option#3, letting people use it with your express permission.

But after reading this entire thread again, I would probably revise my vote and suggest you copyright it (the logo) and the name KiwiBiker if possible. Of course, things like this take $$$, but going by the popularity and support fir this forum I reckon it'll be worth it for the future. Just my 2c.

Big Dog
6th August 2003, 05:45
Originally posted by franco
Ya know, at the beginning of this I voted for option#3, letting people use it with your express permission.

But after reading this entire thread again, I would probably revise my vote and suggest you copyright it (the logo) and the name KiwiBiker if possible. Of course, things like this take $$$, but going by the popularity and support fir this forum I reckon it'll be worth it for the future. Just my 2c.

A day late and a dollar short but my view was also changed by reading this thread...... Even if I can't by the shirts due to being a 5xl.:niceone:

Marmoot
6th August 2003, 10:45
SpankMe: keep the oldest record of T-Shirt printing and a T-shirt with the logo. That'll prove "prior use" if it comes to litigation.

bikerboy
6th August 2003, 17:16
Hey BigDog, you could have supplied your own t-shirt for printing.

I think that all the printing is done but if another batch is anounced you should do that, if you want one.:rockon:

Gixxer
6th August 2003, 18:04
hhmmm,&nbsp; anyone heard from p0stal? is he still around?

missed out on seeing there t's, i think it is ok to show the&nbsp;logo if it is advertising for kiwibiker or has a link to this site.

that is why we went to all the trouble of drawing pics and making the logo in the first place, for this sites identity.

as for ownership?? me not know, p0stal did all the graphics. but everyone contributed to the final outcome.

i think it belongs on the site. for the site.

share the love, but only if you pay.

&nbsp;

Big Dog
6th August 2003, 22:53
Originally posted by bikerboy
Hey BigDog, you could have supplied your own t-shirt for printing.

I think that all the printing is done but if another batch is anounced you should do that, if you want one.:rockon:

Good Idea.

Are there any plans to do another batch?

I joined up after the last lot closed.:(

Gixxer
7th August 2003, 12:05
count me in for 2 more spankme, one of my mates wants to represent in&nbsp;OZ.&nbsp;

&nbsp;

I would like to supply my own t as well.

Big Dog
9th August 2003, 03:07
Count me in for 2 will supply own shirts.:done:

Dodgyiti
21st February 2005, 15:13
I never got the Westie Road Markers emblem or name copyrighted.
Then one day I saw this joker who was no member of our club wearing a club shirt with the logo on the back and the front embroidered with the club name.
It seems the shop that did our work were just doing whatever people wanted and couldnt care less, as long as they got their money.

marty
21st February 2005, 16:29
whew! for amoment there i thought HONDA was back....

Ms Piggy
21st February 2005, 16:49
I think copyright is a good idea b/c afterall it's a fantastic logo and it really puts a stamp on KB's but, if it's too much hassel then asking others to ask permission to use the logo would be good enough I reckon.

SpankMe
21st February 2005, 17:49
This is what happens (http://www.socalsvriders.org/modules.php?set_albumName=albus73&op=modload&name=Photo_Gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=3) when you give permission to use the logo in a small graphic. They start making their own shirts.

Joni
21st February 2005, 18:03
This is what happens (http://www.socalsvriders.org/modules.php?set_albumName=albus73&op=modload&name=Photo_Gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=3) when you give permission to use the logo in a small graphic. They start making their own shirts.

:gob: - NO ways.... some people!!! :confused: That must have irritated you a tad...

El Dopa
21st February 2005, 19:07
This is what happens (http://www.socalsvriders.org/modules.php?set_albumName=albus73&op=modload&name=Photo_Gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=3) when you give permission to use the logo in a small graphic. They start making their own shirts.

If you want some advice on copyright and trademark law, drop me a PM.

I may know someone who can help.

avgas
21st February 2005, 20:05
have to agree on the copyright thing here,
:angry2: why cant they draw theyre own bloody picture
Now im gonna chuck SVclub stickers all over my auto corona like a tacky ricer - just to spite them.
Come on guys, can we do an appeal and everyone pitches in a gold coin for the logo.

Warren
22nd February 2005, 08:45
This page at wikipedia gives a good overview about copyrights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

bugjuice
23rd February 2005, 11:51
hell yeah copyright it.. And send that bunch a friend email telling them to piss off and get their own cool logo, and not nick yours Spank.. That's what sets this site apart here, and out on the road. Else how do we know who's 'ours'?
what utter arses

hobdar
23rd February 2005, 12:09
I agree copyright it, I would chuck in some dosh to help.....[humbly] um better ask Mrs Hobdar first but!.


How do we contribute? Donations to copyright logo sent to......???????

bugjuice
23rd February 2005, 12:34
I agree copyright it, I would chuck in some dosh to help.....[humbly] um better ask Mrs Hobdar first but!.


How do we contribute? Donations to copyright logo sent to......???????
paypal on the front page.. donate when Spank is around on rides etc.. buy stuff from the site like stickers and t-shirts.. and it's all for a good cause :2thumbsup

Yokai
23rd February 2005, 13:08
1 - Mrs Y is an IP Lawyer here in NZ
2 - I haven't asked her (she costs a lot)
3 - I have sat through all her revision for her exams etc and am in IT and Graphic Design and so have asked her lots of similar questions
4 - Get formal legal advice to solve any final queries.

It is most likely that the site logo is copyrighted to Gixxer and P0stal unless it was a commissioned work by SpankMe for the site. A commissioned work is one created on the instructions of another person and where consideration is given to the creator.

SpankMe might well have been given a licence to distribute as he sees fit by general practice. It would be up to him to let those people know to whom he gives the right of re-use (effectively a free licence to use for specific purpose) that the licence of use is not a licence to distribute.

There are specific rules about what a licence to use can and can't be and I can't remember them off the top of my head.

Have a look at:
http://www.clendons.co.nz/library/articles/dealing_copyright94.htm
and the Simply Gruesome website (www.simpsongrierson.co.nz)

My vote is that the logo (if it is in SpankMe's remit) is distributed under the terms of the GPL (www.copyleft.org). But them I'm a liberal hippy geek.
I think the way you have handled it so far is great, Spankster!

El Dopa
23rd February 2005, 21:21
I agree copyright it, I would chuck in some dosh to help.....[humbly] um better ask Mrs Hobdar first but!.


How do we contribute? Donations to copyright logo sent to......???????

It's already copyright, just by existing. Whoever designed it owns the copyright. They can assign the copyright either to SpankMe or Kiwibiker, if Kiwibiker is regstered as a corporate entity.

If you wanted to register it as a trademark, that is a different story, and expensive. you're probably looking at $1000+, plus any further costs to prepare and serve documents if you wanted to hammer the rip-off merchants.