Young drivers - opinions on licence restrictions

[Ixion]

http://www.safeas.govt.nz/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=308.0;id=27

With acknowledgement to AA.

Some interesting entitlement issues ? or am I just succumbing to old fartism. (And gotta admit when I got mine it was a lot simpler than now. And most of us survived. Most )

[placidfemme]

http://www.safeas.govt.nz/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=308.0;id=27

With acknowledgement to AA.

Some interesting entitlement issues ? or am I just succumbing to old fartism. (And gotta admit when I got mine it was a lot simpler than now. And most of us survived. Most )

Wanna quote what you wanna show?

They want me to join to view it... And I don't really wanna lol

[yungatart]

YEp, I'm with PF, Ixion.. show us please...

[TLDV8]

It took 30 seconds to register,but you stay there,i'll go :Pokey:

FOCUS GROUP SESSIONS
Frontal Lobes Experimental Groups
2 October 2006, Wairakei

The young participants were interviewed in three groups (about 11 in each group). Each group had about half an hour of questions. This covered the process, experience and compliance (or otherwise) with the graduated driver licence system (GDLS). It also covered various policy options for changing the GDLS and penalty systems.

LEARNER LICENCE PROCESS
What was it like to get your Learners?
There was strong agreement that the Learner theory test was too easy.
“The Learners was way too easy. L was too easy! It was piss easy.
The test isn’t hard enough.
It was way too easy. My little sister passed.”

Most felt the questions were commonsense or not related to being safer.
“The questions are just stupid. They are things you’ve known since you were five.
No, some I would still fail. The questions don’t help driving safety. What’s a blue cat’s eye? Fire hydrant.
Who can take blood? Who is responsible for telling someone under the age of 15 to wear their seatbelt? They’re all common sense.”

Did you learn the Road Code or did you learn the scratchy tests?
Most said they read the whole Road Code, while others used the back pages. None admitted to just learning the scratchy tests.
“You need to have a general idea of the rules.
I swotted up the multi-choice in the back of the road code. I flipped to the back where the answers are and then flipped to the page
You learn the road rules when you drive. It’s called immersion training.
I didn’t know the right hand rule until the first time I went into town because there were none out in the country.”

A few raised issues with the integrity of the test
“My mum was sitting next to me and could have told me the answers.
The lady came and told me the answer, because I started crying”

Who paid for you to sit your licence?
Generally parents paid for the Learners licence; the Restricted Licence was more split between parents and the individual self. A common theme was that if a person failed the test, the parents paid for the first one, the individual paid for the next.

Were you first or last of your mates to get a licence?
This group tended to be early licence achievers.
I was the first girl in my class
Day after my birthday
Six months after my birthday
They’re Some mates are lazy, they use others instead of getting their own licence. I’ve got a lot of mates that are 17, say 30-40%, that have not got a licence. They think I’ll be a sober driver. They rely on you, they bludge off you.

Who supervised you, and what was it like?
Generally parents, although most also had more than one supervisor – an uncle; older siblings, mates.
“Yeah, mum and dad took me out. I didn’t get taken out much.
I got lessons. Lessons were really expensive but my parents were paying. It would be good if you could do them at school because the lessons helped me so much.
My dad is good my mum is stressed out.
Mum was laid back, do whatever, my dad was all control – now it’s the reverse!
You learn their bad habits, like they told me to cut corners cos it saves time.
Dad was all laid back, like when I stalled all the time he goes just like “oh good, just turn on the car again” and I’m like “OK”. So its easier to learn with someone like that, you go like “sweet as”.
My Dad was real strict – it had to be exactly right. I had to practice down the river every day and Dad wouldn’t let me on the road until I got starting off good enough.
My parents split and I’ve got four people teaching me with my stepmum and stepdad and its actually quite good. They’ve all got different rules and I end up making up my own driving style.

How often did they take you out/ you go out to practise before sitting R?
Generally parents took the kids out only a handful of times. Of great concern is the idea that it was hard to get parents to take them out. Parents saw it as an imposition.

Who teaches you to overtake?
Evenly split between parents and learning on the road.

Were you supervised by anyone younger than 21?
Sister, uncle. Sometimes younger people took me
Had to drive mate’s car when drunk but he had his Full.
Wouldn’t agree with reducing to the supervisor to 21 or over.

[TLDV8]

2 year wait before you can supervise a Learner or Restricted driver.
This emerged unprompted as a strong issue, that you should be able to supervise a Learner within 6 months of obtaining a Full.
I think the worst thing with this whole passenger thing is that you have wait for 2 years before you can teach someone to drive. I mean you go through it all to get your full, and it’s a real accomplishment, if you want to take your mates, you can’t.
If you’ve got your full and your mates have your restricteds, and you’re pissed but one of your restricteds isn’t, you can’t legally supervise the restricteds
You’re mature enough when you’ve got your full you’re not going to peer pressure someone on their restricted to do anything Because you’ve already got through that stage on your restricted.
You should be able to supervise - maybe not as soon as you get your full, maybe 6 months later or a year, just so you get used to having passengers.
I mean my brother had his full for a year when I was learning, and it was really hard for my family to teach me because both my parents are working, he was the only one that had the time but I mean he couldn’t so I missed out on a lot of lessons.
I would definitely teach my mates
My mates on his Learners and I mean he’s terrible, he needs it.
I told him “get out of my car”.
Did you use a driving instructor?
About half – but most for only one or two lessons
Driving lessons are way too expensive
School should provide Govt funded driving lessons. The Government should subsidise someone to go around to each school and spend 3 days at each school.
When you go for your Learners you should pay for two lessons up front.
You should have to go out with a trained instructor before they go out with another supervisor.
I used that twice, they were pretty good
Mine just wouldn’t shut up and said so much he confused me
He made me run over cats. He told me to flash my brakelights before intersections if there’s an Asian driver behind.

Would you use one if you got a 50% discount?
Yes, many more agreed, or for more lessons
Yes I’d use them if they’re free. Or negative so they pay you.
Cost’s not just an issue, its time. In the middle of school to have to go, and with NCEA assignments.

Did you drive on the road before you got your L?
80% yes, some only one or two times, a few a lot
Mostly tearing up the back paddocks
Yes a few times
Yes I did and I didn’t get a fine either, you cry if you get off it.
I get cars that are left on the side of the road that are sort of burned up, you get them going, don’t have to worry about burning them out, you can just go.
I started driving when I was about 10
On backcountry roads where noone goes, no cops and stuff
I drove before L, but not on the road
On the back country road where no cops go use it to practice\
Learnt on the farm so didn’t have to

RAISING THE DRIVING AGE?
Yes that’s fine, because I now have mine.
No, that would not be fair on those that need to get it.
If they raise the age it should go back to a simpler licence – not as many steps. One licence like it used to be.
No, leave it as it is but give them more training.
I started early, now I know a lot of skills that I wouldn’t otherwise know if I had started later on
Sixth and seventh form are the most important years and if you are having to go through the whole licensing thing later on, it would add more pressure to what is probably the most pressured time in your life. The ability to get it younger is a good privilege because then you can get it out of the way before your exams.
School leaving age is 16 so why can’t people be able to drive, they’ve got to go to work and apprenticeships when they leave school.
Life is way more convenient with one
When you get to become teens there’s nothing to look forward to, until you’re like 18. Getting your licence is something to look forward to. Getting it out of the way quickly you can get your Full in no time.

LONGER LEARNER PERIOD? (6 months longer on L)
No – too long. Could not get supervisors for that long.
Noone wants to take you out.
I learned the gears after 1 month, was quite a good driver after 3 months, then had to wait to get R already. One year on Learners would be too long
Can’t find supervisors.
Within 3 months I was really sure. I think licence system now is quite good. Its quite good that the DDC can get you 6 months off. You don’t have to sit your restricted if you don’t feel ready, you can keep learning for longer than 6 months.

SHOULD YOU HAVE TO DO A COMPULSORY COURSE?
Would you support the idea of a compulsory course before getting R?
Yes, definitely. Should be at school. Should not be in 6th and 7th form because too much stress already. Should be in 5th form. Should be free.
There should also be an option for people who get their licence after they have left school – night classes or something.
Compulsory course as long as it doesn’t costs money.
This course I have learned a hell of a lot
One day on this course would be so good for a whole lot of the drivers our age out there, and we’ve had two weeks of it. Just one day of a course like this should be a compulsory school subject.
We have been told about the National Certificate of Light Motor Vehicle, something like that should be compulsory before you get your Full. Not Learners or Restricted.
Then we know whoever’s driving would be actually really safe
You should have to do it.
Everyone should do it. Also need opportunity if you miss, or adults with Learners to be available for everyone.

What about getting to a course? Cost/ convenience?
If its like the DDC in the town next door, that’s OK.
Think parents would be happy to drop the kids at reasonable places and times
Should be a school subject.
An issue is time - we’re at NCEA level we have got to study.
If it didn’t cost money it would be good.

[TLDV8]

Would it make difference if it gained NCEA credits?
Yes definitely. That would be a real incentive.

What about people who would forget before sitting R?
Should have to have their L plates before they are allowed to sit the course.
Need to do it in between Learners and R.

RESTRICTED LICENCE PROCESS
How hard was it to get your Restricted?
When I got my Restricted I thought shouldn’t get it because I did really badly on my Restricted test (echoes: yeah same). I mean, what is wrong with New Zealand’s driving test if they pass me? Because I couldn’t drive. I thought, if there’s going to be people like me on the road, I’m scared! I didn’t even know you had to stop at a Stop sign until the day I went to the test.
I have friends who ran Stop signs and got passed. I have friends that got their Restricted by buying the tester lunch.
You should have to do something on your Learners so you are ready for it.
The practical test should check you should actually handle a car, needs to be harder. Need to check you can do more than a U turn, 3 point turn, Give Way uncontrolled intersection and a roundabout if there is one nearby
Test was too easy! R was way too easy! It should be harder

How did you feel about getting R? How did it make you feel having your licence?
Pride in achievement; self esteem. Independence. Proud to accomplish.

What difference did having an R licence make to your life? What sort of things do you do with your licence that you couldn’t do before? What would you not be able to do if you couldn’t get a licence until later?
Freedom. Employment. More choices. Increased extramural sport and cultural activity.
I could go places without having to ask my parents to pick me up, I could just go myself. If me and my mates were going somewhere I could just take my car and go.
“It gave me a sense of freedom – I could just go wherever I wanted, do whatever I wanted, and it was a lot easier for work”. Common)
Its pretty much impossible to be a teenager and not have a licence or a mate with a licence, ‘cos otherwise you just don’t have a life. You can’t go anywhere.
If you want to go to a party and ask your parents to pick you up they go like, 10 o’clock! Ugh.
Church. Sports. Stage Challenge because I could get to all the practices. Definitely means I could take up more things as I have a lot more time, you don’t have to ask your parents to get there. There is less running around, less stress for parents because they know where you are most of the time. Ended up with skills you would not otherwise get.
I could join two soccer team, I could reach both sets of practice and games on time, so I definitely got more skilled than otherwise.
Its cheaper as well, because your parents would have to take you there drop you off then drive home again, and then come and get you – instead of you just taking yourself doing one trip instead of two.
Freedom – it meant I could go out where I wanted to without having to ask my parents to take me. I live 30km out of town so if mum went to town, I had no way to get out. Social life changed.
Avoid the cops, not get tickets. Not being outside the rules.
Its kind of safe as well – safety is a big issue - you know if you’ve got your car, you can never be stuck, you can always get home. Those curfew rules aren’t very good because sometimes you have to break them like if there’s an emergency or something.
I go off to work by 5am sometimes leave by 4:30am – you have to break the curfew to get to work. I live a km away from work so its not worth getting the exemption – I just get up too late to walk.
Independence.
You don’t have to listen to anyone
Makes you more mature have to pay your own petrol
Parties. Work. School.
My dad lives in Taupo and my mum in Wellington and I go to school in Palmerston North. Without my licence I wouldn’t be able to go to see them, like go to Taupo every couple of weeks.
I’d be stuck in the wopwops.
I got a job. I wasn’t able to play basketball, because I had to go over the Haywards every Friday night, and now I can.
I couldn’t have got here (to Taupo course).
I know people that would have been in real crap situations if they hadn’t had a way to get home. Some guys were out to get him and he just got in his car and went home.
If you bring it forward a year it will take people until their 18.5to 19, which is when people want to go to university. You’re living and university and you don’t have your licence.
Some people move out at 18 so you’re living on your own, without your licence. You want to get it as fast as you can so when you do get to that age (leaving home) you can get out and do things on your own.

Did it affect other people?
Parents ask them to pick up stuff. They are expected to deliver siblings. Mates need taking places.
Parents have time to take other kids to more activities because I drive myself
My family hard out relies on me to drive places and pick up stuff
My friends depend on me
My mum didn’t have to drive me half an hour each way to work. I didn’t have to catch the bus at 7, could catch it at 8. My mum didn’t have to run me out an hour each way to parties and stuff (and maybe say no).
I can get anywhere I want to go without my parents having to take me.
If you’ve got 3 kids in the family with insane sports time, you’ve only got two parents. It frees that up so they don’t have to run you around. You don’t have to organise with them “can you run me around?”; it gives you freedom.
It helps them out when they want you to pick things up from the shops and stuff
It takes the weight off their shoulders knowing that their children are at the point where they can go out and not be relied on by them – like they don’t have to expect a call at work, come and pick me up
They don’t have to wait up for me

Alcohol safety
It helps at parties that there’s a safe driver.
At our age there’s no mistaking that everyone’s on the piss, and people get alcohol at a really young age now, so if you’ve got your licence and you’ve agreed who’s the sober driver, that’s good. People expect you to be the sober driver. Me and my mates take turns. Its good having it at that age because if you raise the age up, by the time you get to 18 not that many will have their full and be able to be the sober driver.

[TLDV8]

PASSENGER RESTRICTION
What do you think about the passenger restriction?
The passenger restriction is seen as more severe than the night restriction. Passenger issues arise in relation to siblings, social events, sports and work. Both peers and parents put pressure on the break this restriction. They are definitely expected to drive their younger siblings around and take up a share of the childminding role.
I mean I’ve got two brothers who both go to the same school as me and I can drive to school but I can’t take my brothers, that’s just dumb. Its ridiculous
It affects me a great deal. When I got my licence I was the only one in the family so I had to drive my brothers around – we live about 13km in the country, so I had to drive them illegally.
I think its fair enough. But the fines are too much.
When you are in the last 6 months of a restricted you are pretty good.
Your parents distract you as much as any friends would.
For sports I take people give ride. Everyone just packs into someone’s car. Now we have a few with Full licences we share the driving around.
I would like to take a person that goes to same job as me.”
It about peer pressure, influencing you to speed – if you got the brains you don’t let them influence you like that. I think the idea of not carrying passengers is fair because we are still novice drivers and still experiencing what road conditions are.

One sober on Restricted versus several drunk drivers
Sober drivers, that’s one person driving and taking a risk, but they are stopping maybe six people driving and taking a risk.
I personally know a guy that got killed at Christmas time, he was sober but only had his restricted and but the driver in the front had his full but he had been drinking. So that rule killed him. The restricted driver was probably just as good as the guy with the Full but he didn’t want to drive because of the rule and the $400 penalty. So the rule does cost lives.
I would be willing to break all the rules to save a life. I sober drive at 2-3am and I break about 2-3 rules doing that but I’m maybe saving 5 people’s lives by doing that, say if they drive home drunk and hit another car. What’s $400 compared to a life? I would sober drive anyone. You can easily get another $400 but you can’t easily get back your friend’s life.

They noted they were the ones with the licences, hence they got designated the sober driver. Teens were drinking, that is a reality of their lives. They argued it was better for one sober R driver to take six of them home than have six drunk R drivers on the road. They did not think they should be fined for this, they were saving lives.

Pressure on Full Licence holders
If you’ve got your Full you’re the designated driver. I don’t always want to be the sober one!
Fulls are needed on long drives for holidays (some still do on restricted). Ones without a Full, they’ll let me drive.
Yes, our mates bludge on us with a Full.
Ones with their Full don’t mind doing it (designated driver) because they like driving.

What do you think of the penalties for carrying passengers? Instead of $400 fine and 10 demerits how about $100 and 25 demerits?
Many had received a fine for carrying passengers. There was some confusion about whether the fines were only for the driver or could be handed out for each illegal passenger too). A $400 fine, the officer breaks it up between the passengers. No its only $400 for the driver. No its $400 the driver and $400 for each passenger.
The general protocol was to get mates to pay, but they were aware that the offence would be against their licence and they alone would get the demerits.
$400 is a lot of money for someone our age. Demerits would be better.

How do you feel about allowing you to carry one passenger, would that make a difference?
They were very positive about increasing it to allow one passenger
That would make a huge difference
Yes definitely. Should let you be 6 months on R with no passengers, then allow one passenger.
After six months on your restricted you should be allowed some passenger exemptions that are actually the New Zealand rules. I know when I started my restricted I wasn’t a confident driver but now I’ve had it for over 6 months I feel more confident.
There’s more distractions in the back seat. If you’ve only got one passenger in the front seat, generally its someone you know quite well. If they’re in the back seat they’re a distraction.
If there was one person they would be less likely to peer pressure you
Sometimes carrying passengers they can have a positive influence on you, they say like “slow down” and like it makes you carefuller and more concentrating. I drive so much worse when I m on my own.
When you drive on your own in the car its like its only me, whereas when you have someone else in the car you are responsible for them as well.
I drive better when I am carrying passengers
After six months, I reckon carrying one passenger would be a good idea, then you have had six months to get used to driving by yourself. Then you get six months to get used to carrying one passenger, before you get a whole car-load.
Personally I think that would really help with a lot of crashes and it would be safer as well.
I drop 20km off my speedo when I have a passenger
Even with more than one brother, being allowed only one passenger would really be good, like if anyone needs to go out and get him it would make a difference.
I think Govt needs to work around to make it so teenagers can carry one passenger up to a certain time at night.

What about the exemptions for family?
There was strong resentment about the unfairness of the exemption system. A lot of them had applied for exemptions to carry siblings and none had been allowed. Also resented money paid to apply for exemptions that were declined. It seems far too hard to get an exemption.
“My best friends are twins and they get declined. Noone can ever get it
I got caught, and applied for an exemption, but they don’t give it to us.
If I was a 16-year old father I would be allowed to carry my own child why can’t I carry my little brother to school? I think that’s pretty stink. It costs $70 and you write out your reason and send it off and they just send back saying “sorry”.
Only one person knew of someone that had got a permit “to take their little sister with Downs syndrome that had to be taken for hospital treatments.”

NIGHT RESTRICTION
They knew the hours were 10pm-5am. Some felt it did not restrict them, but several work until 10:30pm.
One has to leave for work at 4:30am. Most of the teens go to bed well after 10pm.
How do you feel about night restrictions?
They don’t make sense. It gets dark at 6:30pm in winter.
If those are the risky times, why not make the curfew just Friday and Saturday nights?
I have to go off to work.
People that have jobs work in kitchen. Even if you’re just watching footy with a mate.
Some sporting fixtures also mean driving after 10pm.
They don’t really affect you
There’s much less traffic at night so its less dangerous – there’s no traffic on the road, there’s far more at 6pm
A $400 fine for going to work, you’re not going to make $400 in a day, so if you’re caught, you’re screwed, because you’re not going to be able to pay that back in the day. That’s like a month’s worth of pay.
$400 is a lot of money for us, we get paid jack shit.
If you have to leave early to go to the mountain, its not like you’ve been drinking or anything, or up partying, you’re just getting up early to get a good start to the day

Do you know why there are night restrictions?
High risk period
Fatigue
Dangerous driving
Driving in dark
But there’s drunk people on the road
You could get tired.
Don’t want drunk hoons on Friday and Saturday

Exemptions
Many do drive somewhat outside the hours. They don’t apply for exemptions because “you have to pay, then wait a month or so while they consider it, then you might get declined with no reason” so is was not worth applying. (Relates to previous poor experience with passenger exemption?) None had exemptions for work.
Exemptions cost $42.
Have to pay $25 to get it possibly cut down and then they might not let you.

Would it make a difference if the hours were changed a bit (eg 11pm-5am)
Yes, it would make a lot of difference for work.
That’s about right.
That would be cool.
I reckon it should be extended to 11 because where we are in Te Puke with the kiwifruit packing they don’t finish until 10:30 at night and where we live in the country we have to drive.
If they add time would they cut time elsewhere? If it was a choice we would rather leave the limit at 10pm and leave the age lower. If you raise the age its unfair on people that have been looking forward to it.

SPEED: Should people on their restricted have a lower speed limit (eg 80)?
No, that just makes it dangerous.
Noone obeys the lower learner motorbike speed limit.
It would cause traffic jams.
On a long journey it would take forever, take much longer.
It would create dangerous overtaking, you would have cars behind you going like …get on with it grrr
It would really annoy other drivers, that would be awful, it would hold people up, it would be more dangerous on the road, I would drive at the speed limit anyway and just risk another fine.
You would have so much road rage from other drivers they would kill you.
You would get your full and not know what to do – oooh I’m going so fast

How would you feel about having to show R plates?
Hated the idea. Was a great relief about not having to show L plates anymore, would strongly resent R plates.
That was the first thing I did when I got my restricted I ripped the L plates off
L plates are the worst thing because you get singled out I’m going to get you son
They treat you like rubbish as if L = like, Retard
The Police would use them to tell if you had passengers and stuff

[TLDV8]

CELLPHONE RESTRICTION
Do you read texts / text back / answer cellphones while driving? Yes they all do all three. They could not accept the possibility of turning off their cellphones while driving. It would be socially unacceptable.
Yes we use our cellphones. Whoever said men can’t multitask? Texting is easier than talking. If I’m talking, I don’t know what I’m doing, I’m like driving along in a straight line and get off the phone and I’m like “what have I just done? I’ve gone 3kms and don’t know what I’ve done.
You can’t drive without your phone.

How would you feel about a cellphone restriction?
Showing an internal conflict, they strongly supported a ban on cellphones/text
Oh shit yes. They should ban cellphones. You drive all over the road.
I crashed into fence texting.
Texting is not such a bad thing, its reading them that’s bad. All teenagers can text without looking, its reading it that takes your eyes off the road.
You see people driving along talking on the phone, because they have one hand on the wheel and one on the phone they can’t use their indicators.
Its dangerous. You see them swerving.
I reckon heaps of crashes are from cellphones and texting.
They’ve banned them in Aussie, both phones and texting, everything.
“So what do you do when you get a text?” “Niha pulls over whenever he gets a call or a text. (Really? Can you do that? participant expresses shock and surprise)”

DRUG TESTING
How would you feel about the Police doing random roadside drug testing?
There was concern about being detected after some weeks had passed. They wanted to know whether the test could discriminate between recent or older drugs in the system. There was opinion that you were a safer driver on marijuana.
No Yes No way Of course you’ve got to have it. No way.
Then when you’re not stoned and they take a sample it shows its been in your blood you get in trouble for getting stoned when you weren’t driving.
Ooh like “Don’t fine me, I was only getting stoned yesterday!” (laughs).
Just like a breathalyser – should be done.
Only if it will distinguish between recent and non-recent drugs
Its an invasion of privacy. Only if drugs are suspected, not selected at random.
I reckon its fair enough. Alcohol is more socially acceptable than drugs.
Is being on party pills illegal now?
People drunk drive fast, stoned drive slower.
I have driven stoned.

MOVING TO FULL LICENCE
How many have sat DDC? ST?
Quite a few had sat DDC or ST. Comment that the in-class sessions did not make you safer because you were not driving, and the in-car session was good for helping prepare you for the Full test, but not enough of a safety improvement to warrant the 6 months off. Parents pay, sometimes teen
“The course itself doesn’t make you safer because you sit in the classroom – you only get one turn in a car.
DDC reduced my risk. I didn’t like having to pay $160 for it. The DDC in car was really useful, basically like a full test. Helped me know what the Full test would really be like.
I’ve heard its in a class, theory, theory, theory and the one drive. We’re out there to drive. We do enough theory with other stuff.
Doing the commentary that’s like theory as well but its way better than sitting down in a class and writing.
Streetwise was 3 hours for four nights it’s a lot of time to take out of your life. Especially to be writing the whole time, it defeats the purpose of it.”

An opinion expressed that it was “corrupt” to take money to get 6 months off, “just another way of getting money out of you”.
Having to pay money to get your licence time knocked down is like, corruption. Its like a bribe, like paying to get off a fine. Slip a $10 note in the cop’s top pocket.
Its just a way of collecting money to give you your licence earlier.

How many people intend to get their Full?
Strong show of hands. All intending to get their full as soon as possible, but this group has been influenced by the training, which has increased their willingness to be tested.
As soon as I can
I’ve actually got a relative that stayed on her Learners for like 25 years and drove as she was on a Full
The day I can get my full, I’m in that shop
Before this I was scared but after this I’m like let me go
I reckon people that want to get their full should come down here. After doing this course you feel ready
This course should let us get six months off, its much better than the defensive
We did way more than you do in the defensive.

[TLDV8]

Is cost an issue?
Yes. I’m poor, if I fail I’m scared.
No, my parents will pay.
Its $160 just to get on the road.
In Europe its like $3000 so don’t complain
I think its $82.90 to sit your full
A truck licence is $300
We get one shot if I fail we have to pay for it myself (several agree)
Its in my mum’s interest if I get it so she pays.

How would you feel if the restricted was less cool in colours and name, would that encourage you to go for a Full?
Wouldn’t make a difference, it’s what the licence allows you to do

How would you feel about having the R licence expire after 3 years?
No, its their problem if they don’t progress, let them get the fines etc why make it compulsory?
No if you want to stay on your restricted that’s OK
If you can’t afford to pay for your Full you should be able to stay on their R
What, in 3 years you’re not going to make $80!
All it would do would force people to get their Full, what’s the point in forcing people to get their full licence?
I know people that have been on their restricted for 10 years
Its their own problem! They have been driving for just as long as someone that has got their fulls anyway who cares? They’re probably no more dangerous! If they obey the rules that’s all good. Let them get fined. Its their problem not ours. The Govt will lose fine money if they do that.

PENALTIES
What’s worse, fines or demerits?
Demerits. No Fines. Fines mean a lot to us, we can’t afford them.
Sometimes people get let off fines.
“I would let myself get two lots of demerits, then I would stop taking passengers until I got my Full, since that would only be a few months away”.
Demerits don’t have to be paid for, but I’d get my car taken off me
If I’ve got passengers then (I’d prefer fines) ‘cos they’d pay, but if its my speeding then the fines would be worse than demerits.
Don’t tell the Police to be harder on tickets because its already bad enough
Christchurch is getting hit bad with the tickets. (Argument about speed tolerance – whether 10km, 5km, no tolerance)
There shouldn’t be any excuses for speeding, but its not fair to not be allowed to drive where you need to drive (eg at night).
Its so easy to get off, he had $80,000 worth of car fines, he oh that’s not such a good story because in the end he went to jail – but there was a guy with less fines like $40,000 that got 30 hours community service, which is a really short time to pay off $40,000.
Also with fines they enforce them unfairly. People don’t always get fined. Like I got caught on a restricted with passengers and I got a fine and it really racked me off because but I know two others who got caught by the same cop and they got let off. It’s only a small town, everyone knows everyone I can name names if you like.

Would you prefer lower fines, and higher demerits?
No, you would lose your licence easier
Rather that than massive fine.
Demerits don’t get wiped for 2 years.
If don’t learn the first time, then you should lose your licence
Cash hits you harder.
I have 2 restricted passenger fines, and I still do it. (That’s stupidity). No I just make sure I don’t get caught.
I have a friend who only has 5 demerits until he loses his licence and he still carries passengers.
I will carry my mates until I get caught once, then after that I will stop because I don’t want to lose my licence.
When passengers say don’t worry, we’ll pay the fine, I know that its gonna be on my record and I’m the one that will get the demerit points.
The whole high demerit points thing, that’s the same as a big fine because you could lose your licence?
What is the risk of being past curfew or carrying passengers compared to drunk driving, is the penalty fair?
Money is precious to us, we don’t have much

Do you think you should get higher penalties the more tickets you get?
Yes that’s fair, its like make you learn your lesson. Cos speeding is just stupid.
Imagine how much fuel you could save if you dropped your speed.
I was told there’s no speed tolerance anymore

If you get a fine who pays? Me – passengers share, it’s a deal. Not usually parents.
I pay my fines. Don’t tell my parents - they will all be real angry
Its my business - what goes down stays down

Should L and R drivers have a lower demerit limit (eg 35 and 75)
Some mixed feelings on this. Worried about losing their licence.
If you get one reasonable sized penalty you’re stuffed.
Say you’ve already got 75 demerits and they lower the limit to 50 would you lose your licence straight away?

How would you feel about having your licence extended as a penalty?
No, would not like that.
Would also hate reverting to Learner.

How would you feel about having your parents sent a letter about your penalty?
Angry about the idea of parents getting a letter – that’s my personal responsibility, its nothing to do with them, why should they even know?
They would know anyway (several agree).
That’s a crock of shit because we’re 16 and we should be treated as adults, its our own problem don’t bring them into it.
I don’t think you should bring parents into it.
Frankly it would just worry them more
I think my parents choose to think that I don’t speed.

How would you feel about losing your licence as a penalty?
Fair cop

If you lost your licence would you keep driving anyway?
Most wouldn’t; a few would

I wouldn’t be allowed. I’m more scared of my parents than the Police
Only on the backroads
If you drive before you have a licence its less fine than if you drive while disqualified.
When my dad lost his licence they were useless - they sent round someone that didn’t care, who didn’t take his licence off him or anything. So he drove like a nana (old lady) for 3 months and then it was OK.

How would you feel about having the vehicle you were driving taken / clamped?
Generally appalled. One person did not know that that vehicle confiscation was an option! You mean the Police take your car - can they DO that?
No I hate clamping. Put the fines up but don’t take the cars, it’s a pain in the bum.
What if its not my vehicle? I would not be allowed to use it again if clamped
Your parents would hate you. I had a friend who lost her mum’s car and it was the only one for the family.
I would borrow my parents.
My mate lost his car because he hadn’t paid his fine so they’re selling it for only $1500 so he’s giving his mates the money to buy it for $1500.
I think its fair enough if you are caught going like 150 km/h that the car should be taken, but not if you are just slowly accumulating demerits and then got a minor speeding fines for just over 100 and then it gets taken, that’s not fair. It should be something major.

Would you be happy to have your licences checked?
Yes

How would you feel about increasing penalties the more times you’re caught?
eg first time have to pay to do a course like this (Frontal Lobes), no demerits; second time, fines demerits and extend R or L licence 6 months; third time fines demerits and lose your licence for 3 months; fourth time, car clamped.
General support for this idea
If they are speeding and getting ticketed a lot, they should lose their licence.
Drink driving after two or three times they should lose their licence.
Repeat drink drivers should be sent to rehab – drink drivers should lose their car
You could lend your car to a drink driver because you wouldn’t know
More harsh penalties for these repeat offenders.

VEHICLES
Whose car do you drive?
Strong reaction – not allowed parents’ car. Too much for insurance for their good cars. The teens are only allowed old cheap cars that would not cost to repair. $560 was the cheapest third party someone had found, and many would not insure her. Parents buy the cars for them but many want to get paid back
I’m getting $140 a week and paying $100 off for the car and $40 for the petrol
I borrowed from my parents and I’m paying $80 off a week on the car
My parents bought a brand new Mazda 6 and they won’t let me touch it
We buy cheap cars because we can’t get insurance for our dear ones.
Under my parents name and thinks they drive it most of the time
Parents claim car is only 30% my use.
I don’t even have insurance
They should have compulsory third party insurance
My parents wouldn’t let me drive if it wasn’t insured
Higher insurance for turbo cars unless you’re over 25 is rubbish
Insurance is so dear.
V6 Galant 1800, Impreza Fully nana 1.5 one
Parents buy us the cars

How would you feel about a rule that limited L and R platers from driving cars with high acceleration?
Would you make me sell my car?
There are responsible people out there, not all are hoons under 25
Sometimes you need to have power to get out of dangerous situations
The car we were driving today, it sucks, has no power
It’s a worry when your car doesn’t accelerate when overtaking.

Who pays if you dent the car?
Me

Who pays for fuel?
Me.
Parents if I’m doing chores for them.
I lend my car to my mum/ sister when its empty.
I pay half - if I’m going to school and sport practice, they pay, to my friends I pay

[Ixion]

Hmm. Odd.You don't have to join if you go to the website (like KB, can read even if you're not a member).Must be going directly to the URL.

Thanks Mr TKDV8

[sunhuntin]

skimmed most of the what was copied on board....i agree...it was way too easy. my BHS trainer guy made that side too easy...cept for the weaving, but then he gave the max amount of attempts. with the scratchy at the aa...he was right there, didnt really tell me the answers, but gave me a prod if i was unsure.
ive been on my learners for well over a year [got it may 05] and would quite happily stay on it. i fail to see the benefit of forking out $$ for restricted when all i gain [lose?] is the l plate?

i pay for my own petrol and insurance, plus services/parts needed. they did give me a petrol voucher once, but im saving that for an emergency.
parents bought my bike after a car killed my old one, which was dads first.

btw...this is based on bike, not car. im assuming the aa stuff was based on cars.

[Motu]

my stepmum and stepdad


??? How do you manage that one?

[Waylander]

??? How do you manage that one?
Both original parrents remarry.



As for the liscencing system, graduated may be a good idea but untill they do something that actually restrics cage learners the way bike learners are restricted and also better training to begin with I really don't see a point.

In the states you can't get your liscence unless you have sat a course that is class room based at the start then once you have learned the theory of all the road rules you take a test to get your permit (bit like a learners and restricted combined) and the instructors can take you out for real road driving lessons for a certain number of hours. Think it's 30 hours class time and 20 in car driving. Not all at once ofcourse. Then after all of that you go to the DMV(Department of Motorvehicles) and take your driving test. Pass it and get your full.

That's for a car. For a bike, you go into the DMV get a free road code book read it take a theory test and you have your permit. Take a riding test like the Basic Handeling test here and if you pass you have you're full. No real training wich I'll admit they need to do, but since you can't get your bike liscence till your 18 yet you can get your car permit at 15 and liscence at 16, usually you know what to expect when on the road. Just need to be taught on how the bike will act out there and what to watch for.

[scumdog]

A familiar patern in thos comments from the younger ones that TDLV8 posted.
It's all "I' "I" "I" and "Me" "Me" "Me" and how inconvenient everything thing is when it comes to ME getting MY licence and how I really NEED a licence and a Full one at that.

'TXT is better than talking when driving' (Tuis moment here)

"Demerits not fines, we can't afford fines" (Don't do anything wrong ya dickhead!)

"I will carry mates until I get stopped once, then after that I will stop because I don't want to lose my licence" (WTF??)

"When you're a teen there is nothing to look forwards to until you get to 18, a drivers licence gives you something to look forwards to" (Diddums!)

[Ixion]

Some exerpts for those who don't want to read the whole thing


There shouldn’t be any excuses for speeding, but its not fair to not be allowed to drive where you need to drive (eg at night).
Angry about the idea of parents getting a letter – that’s my personal responsibility, its nothing to do with them, why should they even know?
I think my parents choose to think that I don’t speed.
One person did not know that that vehicle confiscation was an option! You mean the Police take your car - can they DO that?
What if its not my vehicle? I would not be allowed to use it again if clamped (no shit, Sherlock : ed )
Drink driving after two or three times they should lose their licence.
Higher insurance for turbo cars unless you’re over 25 is rubbish
Sometimes you need to have power to get out of dangerous situations
The car we were driving today, it sucks, has no power
It’s a worry when your car doesn’t accelerate when overtaking.
They could not accept the possibility of turning off their cellphones while driving. It would be socially unacceptable.
You can’t drive without your phone.
Streetwise was 3 hours for four nights it’s a lot of time to take out of your life.
We’re out there to drive. We do enough theory with other stuff.
When you are in the last 6 months of a restricted you are pretty good.
The Police would use them (ed: R plates for restricted drivers) to tell if you had passengers and stuff (ed: Bright lad, that one)
Its pretty much impossible to be a teenager and not have a licence or a mate with a licence, ‘cos otherwise you just don’t have a life. You can’t go anywhere.
you should be able to supervise a Learner within 6 months of obtaining a Full.
When you get to become teens there’s nothing to look forward to, until you’re like 18
I learned the gears after 1 month, was quite a good driver after 3 months, then had to wait to get R already.

[Street Gerbil]

My favorite part


Most felt the questions were commonsense or not related to being safer.
“The questions are just stupid. They are things you’ve known since you were five [...]They’re all common sense.”

The road code is supposed to be simple and common sense. If it is not, there is something wrong with the law.


The questions don’t help driving safety. What’s a blue cat’s eye? Fire hydrant.
Who can take blood? Who is responsible for telling someone under the age of 15 to wear their seatbelt?
Newsflash. Road code deals with legal issues arising from driving too. Such as who is responsible if a passenger went right through the windshield in a crash.
Who is at fault if your car got towed after being left in front of a fire hydrant or blocking the entrance into my driveway. Boo f*cking hoo.

[DingDong]

I can still remember how much fun it was to first drive... it wasnt a means of transport from a-b... it was freedom and power.
Every road is a race track, every road user is a racer... cops cant catch me and I cant die.

shit it was fun... back to subject, I sat my class6 last year after a 2 day swat... was too easy (dont know why I waited so long (16years)) restricted was easy too and now I can go for my full... but I cant be bothered... yet

[Lou Girardin]

Driver testing has become a joke. The old hands, Police, MOT and ex-members of both, could tell within 400 metres if a driver had what it took. Now they've tried to make testing as objective as possible so that trained apes could be Testing officers.
Then they went and hired them.

[Ixion]

Even the testers reckon the tests are too easy.
From today's Harold
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=1040488

Most telling comment



(Driver Licensing operations manager Gerard Clark) said the company would investigate Mete's 11-minute test but he "would expect" that all 13 assessment requirements had been filled. "We can quite easily find out from the test paper that's handed in."



So, if the paperwork's been filled in , that's all right then. I wonder is soon people will be able to take the practcial test over the Internet. Just fill in the paperwork, right?