Death of the 2 stroke

[Cary]

Read in ADB magazine (Nov issue) that Honda is ceasing production of CR85,125 & 250 for '08.:gob:

Taking over from the 85 will be a CRF150R.

No doubt the other jap brands won't be too far behind and you 2 stroke lovers will have to buy euro if you want to buy new in future.

[Danger]

Honda have been putting zero effort into their two strokes for several years now, where as KTM, Yamaha and Suzuki have been making improvements or bringing out all new two strokes for '06 or '07. Who cares about Honda? Not me although their noisy diesel pigs will probably cause the death of dirt bike riding ultimatley. How can you go past the great value of a Suzuki two stroke at $8500-$9500 these days? If and when I hear Suzuki are not going to bring out a two stroke in the future I'll be snapping up the last available model. Those new KTM 250SX's look hot and would be another bike I would like but I'm betting KTM will continue with two stroke development for many years to come.
You will have to prise my two stroke from my cold dead hands before I buy a diesel pig.:devil2:

[umka]

the new crf150 is already out(at least in america) . it looks pretty good but the AMA is not letting it race in the 85cc class and it looks like they are letting the 250 2t and 250 4t race the same class(rumor)

[carver]

the new crf150 is already out(at least in america) . it looks pretty good but the AMA is not letting it race in the 85cc class and it looks like they are letting the 250 2t and 250 4t race the same class(rumor)

the CRF150R is here, seen one in the flesh, its got a l/c unicam engine...maintainance will be very high me thinks..

[Wellyman]

It is a shame that the production of smaller bore two stroke mx bikes are ceasing. 2 strokes have run in my family as my dad and his dad before had the two stroke bug.
the CRF150R sounds like an intresting bike though

[Wellyman]

http://www.transworldmotocross.com/mx/features/article/0,13190,1532331,00.html ( Brendan Lutes)

First Impression:
2007 Honda CRF150R

By Brendan Lutes

Posted: 09.07.2006

After biting our tongues for what seemed like a long, long time, we are now finally able to talk about our day aboard arguably one of the trickest stock mini bikes out there.

After a three-hour drive out to the top-secret Honda testing facility in the middle of the California desert, Honda unveiled their all-new 2007 CRF150R—a true born and breed racing machine that they have apparently been working on for quite a while now. Just one look at the bike and it's easy to see Honda has done their homework—it basically looks like a miniature CRF250R.

So, was the little red bike even half as fun as it appeared to be? Well… you're just going to have to read on and find out…

NEW BEGINNINGS

Why exactly did Honda create the CRF150R you ask? Easy. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that the world of motocross is changing from a world of two strokes to four. And as the thumpers quickly begin to take over, every manufacturer is racing to be the first to raise the bar. With this new 150cc bike, Honda is just that—the first to move the bar up to the next rung.

Since this bike is all new, we won't bore you with every single detail; we'll just go over a few of the key features.

The CRF150R features a close-ratio five-speed gearbox with a Unicam powerplant up on top, just like its bigger brothers. Feeding the powerful little motor is a 32mm Keihin carburetor. As for suspension, the bike is held up by Showa stuff front and rear, just like the 85cc two-stroke machines. While the chassis is made of steel, which Honda says is to cut down on cost and keep the CRF in the same price range as the two-strokes. The frame is matched up to a fully removable aluminum frame, with an aluminum swingarm finishing off the chassis. The bike also comes equipped with steel bars and steel foot pegs.

HOW WAS IT?

Since all of our mini testers were out of the state competing at the Loretta Lynn's Amateur National Championships in Tennessee when the call came to ride the CRF150R, we were left without a true tester. But since we aren't ones to pass up an opportunity to ride a completely new bike, we decided to give it a go.

Thankfully, the bike comes in two sizes—big wheel and regular—so we were actually able to fit on the bike relatively well. According to Honda, this bike is also made to appeal to not only little kids looking for an advantage, but adults who want to have a little fun. It definitely takes a little getting used to, though, but once that happens, the little 150 is a ton of fun. Pounding the bike into the ground isn’t an easy task to do, as it even holds up to the abuse of a full-size adult.

The motor is super fast for a stock mini bike and, like we said, it can even pull a full-grown adult around the track. The bike easily gets up and goes when prompted, and blasts out of turns like a fully built mini bike. Suspension-wise, we aren’t too sure how it really performs, because we are obviously a little too big for the bike, but after dialing up the clickers and sag, the bike is a blast. We found our adult testers soaring over some pretty hefty jumps.

CONCLUSION

Like we said, we really didn’t have a proper test aboard the bike since our mini testers were MIA, but with the little time that we did spend aboard it, we can say with certain that this bike is going to turn a lot of heads. It's super fast, lightweight, and definitely looks cool while just sitting on a stand.

So, will this bike change the face of mini bike racing as we know it? Probably, because if the way the four-strokes are taking over the bigger bike classes is any indication, this bike is no doubt going to be a sure bet come race day. Look for a full review in an upcoming issue of TransWorld Motocross as well as a comparison to an 85cc two-stroke machine.[/quote]

[Motu]

American hype - 4 strokes taking over MX??...???? What planet are they on? They are only taking over because rules are pushing the 2 stroke out! Euro riders are going back to 2 strokes as they are cheaper and easier to maintain,and there is the noise issue too,4 strokes are noisier....didn't always be that way.

Honda were dragged kicking and screaming into 2 stroke production,I'm not surprised they are the first to drop them.

[scott411]

america has not let thse 150's into the 85cc classes, they are only legal in supermini (which allows 112cc 2 strokes),

[Wellyman]

america has not let thse 150's into the 85cc classes, they are only legal in supermini (which allows 112cc 2 strokes),
In my opinion this is a bit stupid as shortly their wont be any 85cc 2 strokes left, and the kids will have to jump from superminis or watever to 250 4's. some kids will run out of options until they are big enough to ride a bigger bige.
WM

[Buddy L]

Read in ADB magazine (Nov issue) that Honda is ceasing production of CR85,125 & 250 for '08.:gob:

Taking over from the 85 will be a CRF150R.

No doubt the other jap brands won't be too far behind and you 2 stroke lovers will have to buy euro if you want to buy new in future.

if this is the case will my bike be worth more in a years time and will get my money back? but it will be only to get another 2 stroke:lol:

[cheese]

It's funny aye, I love my 2 smoke, it's just easy to work on and cheap for bits. I do like the look of the new 4stroke KTm EXC though. Only cause I'm lazy and I'd like the electric start!!!!!

[Ruralman]

Talking with the Dunedin Kawa dealer recently - their sales over the last few years showed a big rise in the popularity of the 4 stroke MX bikes and then the last year it has reversed with a definite trend back to the 2 stroke - the main reason seems to be the bloody high cost of running the 4 stroke machines. Everyone thinks the 4 stroke is great till they have to fork out for their first top end rebuild and for many of them this is maent to be done every 40-50 hours if you follow the manufacturers guidelines.
The 2 stroke has a lot of years left in it yet

[scott411]

manufactures guidelines are actually 15 hour rebuilds on all the brands, most guys are doing them at about 40-50, and top mx riders are doing about 20 hours

[tysonzane]

It would be sad to see 2 strokers faded out. It wasn't long ago when all of the MXers were riding 2 strokes and saying that 4 strokes were quite and slow and that the 2 strokes were noisey and high matanaince. Now it seems its the exact opposite!!!

Even the likes of KTM dont seem to be putting as much of an effort into developing the 2 strokes as they are with the 4 strokes and i havent seen drastic changes from the 2 stroke SX over the years compared with the recent ones on the 4 strokes (twin cam etc etc etc). On a side not i have riden one of the new EXC's and they ride as well as they look and if you havent seen one, they're HHHHOT!!!

[Cary]

I've got nothing against 2 strokes (my mower's one:lol: ) but the manufacturers follow the money & most of that is in the States which have tough emission standards and noise limits. Sure 4 strokes can be loud but they can also be very quite re WR's, EXC's etc.

Done a Power ride or seen Ardmore's latest newsletter? noise restrictions are on the way to NZ. Doing GNCC and have had to buy the quiet endcap for my ProCircuit pipe.

I'm sure Europe will make 2 strokes for years to come, how many Pro racers do u see racing a 2 stroke these days, here or overseas?

My last YZ250F had done 100hrs and still going strong, didn't even need to adjust the valves........

[Motu]

how many Pro racers do u see racing a 2 stroke these days, here or overseas?

......

Why would they when they are penalised for using a 2 stroke?

[Brian d marge]

If you are in the business of making money as Honda are , the 4 strokes are the way , they have invested heavily , the tech trickles down from the investment in other sports , its a good rationalisation of its business.

The fourstrokes , do tend to get more grip out of the corners, I just cant seem to get that same drive as they do , and by the time I get up to speed ,,I am braking hard ,,, The drive out of the corner is where I need it baby !

Iy has taken me a bit of thinking and carefull tuning to get the two smoke to drive as easily as a four ., The four is a lot more forgiving out of the box IMHO.

Oh and there is a back log of orders for topend kits in the states ( was a few months ago when I heard that )

As for sound limits , Yes coming to a race track near you ... 85 db ?? is it not .,... getting VERY strict hear ...and see the size if the mufflers on the new bikes ...nearly 1/2 the size of the bike itself!!!!!

Stephen

[Cary]

Well said Stephen.

I would say the limit will be 98db as that is the FIM limit and is what Oz is. I would say the event organisers/clubs etc want to be seen doing something but don't want to turn people away either.

Bit worried about my local MX track as the houses are getting closer & we know from experence the winers always win re Baypark, Western Springs, etc.