Two dead after police chase of motorcyclist [Archive]

merv

14th May 2003, 19:38

You bet - one idiot always ruins it for the majority, that is the way do-gooder bureaucracy works. They have to regulate to protect us, but hey those that commit crimes are usually breaking the law anyway so the laws are only abided by by those that conform. Its the whole punishment versus crime thing - no amount of death penalties anywhere has stopped murders occurring. When badasss people are up to no good they only have that animal instinct thing of fright or flight and in this case he took flight just like a scared cat might. He wouldn't have thought for one second about what the penalty would be and the consequences etc etc he would just think I've got to run from these meanass cops. Gun laws are another case in point - only the honest abide by them. So if they put tighter regulations on biking the honest will suffer, the badasses will still be badasses and probably do it using a stolen bike.

wkid_one

14th May 2003, 21:11

A agree Merv - those breaking the law aren't even affected by the law change because they aren't abiding by it.  Numerous cases are examples - gun laws, dog registration laws, speeding, drink driving, over-stayers.....

Changing the law doesn't change the behaviour of people who already disregard the law - only re-education does (or death)...yet - those that abide by the law are restricted by the powers to be trying to reign in those who don't give a damn - where is the logic in that??

I ride a bike and I speed - yes - I choose to break the law - however as a biker I only choose to speed in situations where I deem it 'safe' (a loose use of the word) - usually deemed by minimal traffic and I am the only one likely to be injured.  Yes - call me a socially responsible illegal rider!  However, my bike is always registered, I have a license (for how long is questionable), the bike is always warranted, I wear top of the line safety gear, I ride on excellent tyres, and I am insured............I don't seem to have a point anymore so I will stop.

Redstar

14th May 2003, 21:30

whatever way you look at it the biker was the cause of the death of an innocent 18 year old girl and the police were only doing what they do. this is not a proud day for us and heaven fobid I ever do the same.
by latest accounts the persuit was still in action at the time and I cant find any blame apart from the skill and judgement of the biker. we will have accept this one as a lesson in knowing when the limit has been reached and its time to button off.
my thoughts and compassion in this case are with the girl who lost her life.

wkid_one

14th May 2003, 21:32

I must say I disagree - a degree of responsibility remains on the police man in pursuit.......without which the rider wouldn't have been riding erratically.  Even police experts are at a loss to explain why the chase went as long as it did.  Police central even indicated they knew the rider from the rego - why continue the chase!

SPman

14th May 2003, 22:27

Why continue the chase? Because the police were hyped up on the adrenaline rush as well!

 

Marmoot

15th May 2003, 00:00

Originally posted by SPman
Why continue the chase? Because the police were hyped up on the adrenaline rush as well!

 

Exactly!!! and that is what is wrong.
Police are endowed with power beyond normal humans. Therefore, they are also expected to exercise judgement and thoughts beyond normal.

Remember, WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITIES. (R1 and GSXR owners please also read :) )

So, in this case the police can be said as a component in the cause for not exercising proper judgement and let adrenaline rush got in control of the thinking process.

This is not police-bashing. Im sorry if it looks like such, but honestly I think police are expected to act responsibly for all the power they have.

Mitch

15th May 2003, 12:59

This reflects badly on all of us!!  Did any of you hear that the same night there was another police/motorcycle chase, this one the bike was stolen, it ended in the stolen bike and wanker bike theif wedged under a parked car.  Hardly even made the news. FUNNY THAT.

I work for Triumph NZ and have had one call after another from journalists wanting a comment..................ON WHAT????  We import the bike's so it must be our fault, go figure.

I think the police need some form of hard-on restraint when it comes to this kind of thing.  They are definetly partially responsibly for the death of that young girl. 

I think it would be an interesting time to shut of the "Would you run from the police poll" and restart it.  Then compare the results.

Ride safe all.  :)

wari

15th May 2003, 13:18

Originally posted by Mitch
...

I think the police need some form of hard-on ...

hu hu hu hu hu (you know that funny laugh) ... you said hard-on :D

:Oops: ... sorry this is a serious topic.

NhuanH

15th May 2003, 14:48

Mitch,

So what flavour of Triumph was it then?  More red in later pictures that I have seen of it, versus the pink I intially thought I saw.  So maybe not the Speed Triple?

 

Mitch

15th May 2003, 15:26

To be honest I could only hazard a guess as to what it was, I saw a single seat and you mentioned a single sided swing arm, could be a speed triple but i'd put my money on a Daytona, The 2 bikes are very similar without any body work on. 

Wari you cracked a funny teehee  :niceone:  

 

Motu

15th May 2003, 16:05

Most definetly the bikes fault - Triumph needs to pay dearly for this,their motorcycle took a young man to his death,and also another inocent bystander.I think an imediate ban on the sale of all motorcycles is in order,all motorcycles in current use need to be handed in for disposal.I offer my premises and personal services for the collection of said dangerous property.Please contact me with the details of your bike ASAP.

Mitch

15th May 2003, 16:40

Motu, I can't figure out from that if you love Triumph's or hate them :D  Be careful what you joke about though as that may not be such a far fetched idea.  Chances are that they would just make it more diffecult and expensive to own and ride a motorcycle than it already is.  

It looks like the only good outcome of this whole thing is that the cops are going to get caught lying like the bunch of gypo bastards that they are hehehe well not all of them :p   There is a witness that says he heard the bike, then sirens, then the crash, it happened outside his house.  I hope he lays a formal complaint about it. Called the chase off one minute before the crash MY ASS.

LESS BULLSHIT WOULD GO A LONG WAY IN THIS WORLD!!

 :rockon:

Motu

15th May 2003, 16:56

The Triumphs that I loved are not the ones that you will see in your working day.I joke prompted by fear.

Mitch

15th May 2003, 17:08

I meant the politicians will cock it up :DNot the importers hehe :niceone:

bikerboy

15th May 2003, 19:17

:( :( I'm sure after the police have a quite word with the witness he'll change his story or he'll be promoted as being less than trustworthy. Remember the guy who caught the all black drunk and fighting on video. Suddenly the police began a character assasination campaign against this guy, which had nothing to do with the video.

This witness will be discredited somehow or overlooked, just watch.:argh:

SPman

15th May 2003, 20:21

BB, such cynicism from one so young.............:niceone:

I agree.

SPman

15th May 2003, 20:24

Mithch -from the photo in the Herald it looked like a top yoke mounted handlebar - Speed Triple

Goddess of Goof

16th May 2003, 01:16

Yes SP Man, it is the adrenaline - on both sides.

I've wondered often why the Police continue with a chase,

and then there's a nasty accident as a result. Wasn't there a guy who did a

U turn on the motorway exit and crashed ? There's heaps more examples.

I blame traffic police/ and police training, and whatever they teach them

about law, crime and criminology. 

Crime in society is perfectly normal.  You can expect it, plan for it.

Crime is drama. (The news media would die without it).

Something is pretty sick in contemporary society when we criminalise people for their behaviour  (eg speeding through the night on a fairly empty road - fast motorcycle - macho bloke) which maybe wouldn't have hurt anyone - if he hadn't been chased by Police.  They cast themselves as Heros in dramas of their own creation - chasing Villians - forgetting that they are just ordinary people on both sides.  Remember Police over-reaction in the fatal shooting at Waitara ?

Where's their humanity ? 

We all break the law sometime. Dosen't mean we are criminals.:argh::argh:

MikeL

16th May 2003, 08:36

I mentioned in my original post on the un-pc thread that I thought his accident raises some complex moral issues. From the first few replies I was beginning to wonder whether I was out on a limb, as there was some quite vehement opposition to the suggestion that the police might be partly to blame. Since then there have been other viewpoints expressed, and I hope that those who reacted negatively to my comments can see that it is not a black-and-white, right or wrong matter. The more I learn of the circumstances, the more uneasy I feel about the role and actions of the police. I'm not on an anti-police crusade; law enforcement is an essential component of any justice system. But in a democracy we have not only the right but also, I think, the duty to examine critically any procedures, methods or policies that are in place, as well as individual actions, where people's rights (life, liberty, safety...) are put at risk. Some people would prefer the general public to accept unquestioningly decisions made and justifications put forward by those in authority, or to accept simplistic explanations. Other people admit that, for instance, the police sometimes get it wrong but are willing to allow the occasional injustice because they argue that exposing these weaknesses undermines the respect for authority on which they assume the whole basis of law and order depends. These are short-sighted arguments which ignore the longer-term view. History has many examples - e.g. the Dreyfus Affair. Without jumping to premature conclusions about this accident, I was interested to read this morning's news about the witnesses to the accident who flatly contradicted the police version. Two questions immediately spring to mind: 1. Why did the police originally (and presumably before they learnt of the witnesses) hasten to assure us that they had called off the chase well before the accident? 2. How will the police enquiry eventually deal with this inconsistency?

bikerboy

16th May 2003, 10:30

:o Unfortunately the answer to your two questions is the same as in the past.

The boy's in blue will close ranks, investigate themselves, determine their actions to be fair and appropriate and ignore any evidence to the contrary.:bash:

Just look back in recent history:
1. a man was strangled to death as the cops thought he was trying to swallow drugs, no drugs were found, police are cleared.
2. a young teenager was run over by police in parking lot. He was running from them, they pursued in the car and accidentally ran him over. His crime, being out past a curfew, police cleared.
3. Mentally disabled young man strangled in back of police car by officer trying to restrain him, police cleared
4. Man shot repeatedly (in back) by police for breaking windows, police cleared.
5. Officer tampers with evidence to frame suspect. Suspect was innocent, cop wasn't acting maliciously? so cleared.

Do I sense a pattern to all this?:angry2:

What?

16th May 2003, 11:11

Originally posted by bikerboy
:
5. Officer tampers with evidence to frame suspect. Suspect was innocent, cop wasn't acting maliciously? so cleared.

Do I sense a pattern to all this?:angry2:

I can think of a few cases over the years. Most notable was the conviction of Arthur Thomas. You must wonder about a few others.

Yes there is a pattern. It goes like this: the court will believe a police officer over anybody else when it is one word against another. Just the same as speeding offences; there is no evidence, just the cops word that he caught you being naughty. The theory is that the cop has no axe to grind, therefore has no reason to lie. Or tamper with evidence. Or act as judge, jury and executioner. So they get away with it.:angry2:

festus

16th May 2003, 11:28

I'm not proud of what I'm about to say, but I've been in this situation.

A devious cop in a red XR6 was following too close for my comfort (did not realise he was a cop at this stage) as I entered Stratford on my bike one morning heading south. Thought to myself, what's this wanker in by boot, so just overtook a few cars, next thing, this cop is in the middle of Stratfords main street, red & blues under the grill flashing. I thought to myself, you sly prick, next thing, I'm legging it out of Stratford towards Eltham. It all happened so bloody quickly, I suddenly realised I was at the point of no return!. I gunned it to Eltham, lost the cop, but he hung in there for most of that stretch of road, most of the time on the opposite side of the road, at speeds well in excess of 200kph!.

 I truely believe this cop put others in more danger than I. He really got a kick out of the chase.

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not proud of what I did, but I too must question the cops pursuit tactics.

Festus

Coldkiwi

16th May 2003, 12:31

they didn't track you down through your rego?

 

festus

16th May 2003, 14:17

Funny you ask!.

After sitting it out behind a sports club in Eltham for half an hour, headed home to Wanganui.

First thing I did when I got home was ring a mate whose a cop. Asked him what I could expect. The cop definitely got my regno. I was certain of it.

Anyway he advised a couple of possible scenarios.

1. There will be a knock on the door in the near future (did not happen)

2. A letter requesting details of who was riding the bike on blaa blaa.....(never came)

About a month later, was talking to another mate whose a cop, he said he was on duty the day I got chased, the cops had a road block in Hawera (I bypassed this town) and just outside Wanganui. My regno & name was radio through along with reports that I had been clocked at 219kph.

Obviously this cop was doing this speed while in pursuit. Nothing ever came of it, and I reckon this may have been the reason.

Festus

 

festus

16th May 2003, 14:23

Also, forgot to mention missed the roadblock in Wanganui too!. You won't beleive this, but one of the cops waiting there I played rugby with and is also a mate!.

He gave me shit when I saw him, but he laughed it off.

From a cops point of view after talking to all three, most don't really give a shit if someone legs it. They were of the thought to "let them go", "get them later" attitude.

merv

16th May 2003, 14:27

.... and from my area there was this one wrapped up in the papers today

"Officer acquitted of injuring teenager
16 May 2003

A policeman accused of causing life-threatening injuries to a Porirua teenager last year was yesterday acquitted in the Wellington District Court on all charges.

The officer, who was granted permanent name suppression, had been charged with causing grievous bodily harm to Tamati Selave, then 18, by hitting him on the head with a torch as he chased him during a bungled arrest last July.

However, the jury accepted the officer's argument that it was an accident, that he was grabbing for Mr Selave with both hands and that Mr Selave spun and fell, unsupported, on to the road.

The Crown's case came down to the word of four witnesses, all of whom were described by the officer's lawyer, Mike Antunovic, as outright liars.

Mr Selave and his mother Ropine said yesterday that they accepted the jury's verdict.

"Sweet as. We did this the proper way and it has come down to him being found not guilty," Mr Selave said.

"I'm just happy that this is all off my mum's back. It's been a hard year for all of us."

Mr Selave spent five days on life support in a coma following the incident.

He said he was disappointed the case had taken so long to resolve and had been so difficult for the Crown witnesses.

He was still suffering from tiredness, but a piece of his skull removed for several months to relieve swelling was now back in place and he was given the all-clear by his doctor in February.

A job could be in pipeline and he was looking forward to getting on with his life with girlfriend Dezma Taueu.

The court heard that the couple had been drinking heavily with friends at a house-warming party in Cannons Creek when the police were called to a domestic argument in the street outside.

Mr Selave was arrested for shoving the officer in the chest when he tried to intervene in an argument, but ran away from the officer three times before ending up lying face up and severely injured on the road.

Mr Antunovic had said that the jury would not want to buy a used car off the Crown's two eyewitnesses, Henrietta Erskine and her partner Thomas Walker, let alone allow their word to affect a man's future.

They both described watching from their bedroom window as the officer chased Mr Selave into the middle of the road and hit him over the head with either a torch or a baton.

Mr Antunovic argued that the pair were inherently dishonest and were proven criminals who had been influenced by hearing partygoers shouting that the officer had hit Mr Selave with the torch.

"They have seized on this opportunity to strike back (at the police), influenced by their own criminal way of life."

Judge John Dalmer said the officer had the right to go about his job without being embarrassed by references to the court case or having it interfere with his ability to do his job.

He permanently suppressed his name and other identifying features of his job."

bluninja

16th May 2003, 17:06

Slightly off tack I guess....I was on a jury at an inquest....the reporting of the case in the media (I read after the verdict) was totally at odds with the actual evidence presented. Given that the New York times have just parted company with a journalist that just made things up, how can we even believe the impartiality of the journos. Who can you believe????

I used to think the law was black and white, with just grey areas when it came to sentencing. Now I consider it a political process, where justice and law take second place to public opinion, cost, and expediency.

TTFN

Motu

16th May 2003, 18:14

So,confession time is it? Here's one from many years ago,commuting on a mere 160cc.Cleaning up the cars down one side of the road I spotted a bike cop in a side street,he fired up and moved out.Fair cop I thought,but you got to catch me first! I wasn't running away - just not stopping.We went for some time until I stopped at some lights - as I said,I was not doing a runner,just being difficult.

He caught me just as the lights turned green and I pulled over.He got off his bike and came over - he had some difficulty talking,out of breath like he had been running - or Pamela Anderson had said,shall we go into the bedroom now?.''I don't know how fast you were going mate,but I was doing 100mph and couldn't reel you in'' then he got out his ticket book,but his hands were shaking so much he couldn't even open it,let alone write in it.''just keep the speed down next time ok?''

I haven't tried to run much,but one time I did 6 bloody cars surrounded me!

SPman

16th May 2003, 19:48

Originally posted by Motu

I haven't tried to run much,but one time I did 6 bloody cars surrounded me!

Tell us more.......

Hey, these true confessions are fun:niceone:

 

 

Motu

16th May 2003, 23:44

Well,I was hooking it through the back streets of Ponsonby trying to loose a cop on a CB750 - he was really going for it - coming out of the turns in the gutter on the wrong side of the road! The bastard was gaining too! Next thing the streets are just covered in cop cars - I had nowhere to go.They had been staking out the Glue Pot for a drink/drive bust,and somehow he must of radioed ahead - he was a better rider than I had bargand for.Some of those bike cops in the 70s were damn good riders.

BigB

19th May 2003, 07:47

Hi Guys

Just want to add my two bits, I don't agree with him doing a runner and my thoughts are with the girls family, but seeing the results on tv I keep asking myself why he crashed where he did, over slight brow flat sweeping left hander.

Having lived in the Whangeri (my olds still live there) I have travelled that same road, corner many times at speed with no problems.

We'll went up that way at the weekend two up and having now been over the road I wonder how much the condition of the road was a facter!!!. There are now road work signs up, no speed restrictions (don't think they were there at the time of the accident, no mention in reports??) The whole left hand side of the road has subsided about 3-4 inchs all the way out to the white line. We went over it at about 100kph and that was bad enough bounced sideways, let alone going over it at 140kph, its no wonder he lost control and crossed the centre line.

I'm not trying to justify what he did but I think the road condition played a major part in what happened. Even if he wasn't being chased anyone tring to take that corner at speed in the current condition is going to have problems.

Once again bad road conditions may have played there part in a tragic accident.

:done:

Mitch

19th May 2003, 10:04

Originally posted by SPman
Mithch -from the photo in the Herald it looked like a top yoke mounted handlebar - Speed Triple

SPman I'm pretty damn impressed!!  Do you want a job?  :D

SPman

19th May 2003, 22:11

Originally posted by Mitch
SPman I'm pretty damn impressed!!  Do you want a job?  :D

Yes please. One where I get sack loads of cash for doing SFA, 2 days a week and the rest of the time supplied with new bikes to ride as far and hard as I can.:niceone:

Redstar

19th May 2003, 22:28

an 18 year old girl died she has no knowledge of the reasons or the rationals. she cares not about the make of the bike or the right or wrong of the chase. she is dead and the bike hit he car not the other way around. I do mean it was not a proud moment for us and I still think the cops were only doing what they do.
heaven forbid I ever do the same.
You have to know when to back off.

bluninja

20th May 2003, 09:57

Yes it's sad Redstar. But do you think the biker intentionally hit the car? Crashes happen everyday, including some that kill or maim people. Should I hang my head in shame everytime a bike hits a car? or even when a car (I do drive them) hits a pedestrian (or 2 in a service station)? I think not.

I don't accept any guilt or shame from other peoples actions, though I do accept that actions of other people can have an impact on my freedoms, health, and income. In this case I want to know the truth (unlikely I know) of the events leading to this tragedy. With that information I am then in a position to make choices on what actions (if any) I take as a result.

If there was no police chase this would be looked on as a tragic accident where rider error, rider skill, speed, and road condition would have been the considered factors. The police chase has muddied the waters, and IS a factor in this accident.

TTFN

Kwaka-Kid

20th May 2003, 17:11

redstar ive been arguing for the same side as you in the other thread for the past few weeks or whatever...

You just cant blame the cops for this girls death.. Relate it to somthing... i choose this: Can i blame The ZXR400 ahead of me on pukekohe that day for my crash? because of him being ahead of my it certainly, CERTAINLY did change my decisions and make me take that front corner much different to my usual.. so does this mean i can ask him for 50% of my repair bill? piss off! is exactly what hed tell me.. which is exactly what i think the police should tell you people blind enough to blame them for this girls death, in any size.

During the whole chase.. he had every opportunity to pull over.. he was never forced into running, he chose to up the stakes and risk it all, and he lost it all.  Screw him, its all part of natures weaning out process... another headless chook off the streets unfortunatly at the cost of an innocent motorist (and we cant change this now.. and trying to put irrational things in place to stop this from ever happening again is just not possible with the ways of today)

Understand its only very very very ocasionally that somthing like this happens aswell.   - Dont get lost in the details of the chase.. rather step back and look at it generally... You cannot blame the police for chasing... its what they are there to do, and happily i help pay them to :)

Again. sorry to the poor girl :( -who my mate knew and was in the same youth group as.

wkid_one

20th May 2003, 18:43

One could argue the point that the accident would never have happened if the police didn't chase the rider - therefore the accident is their fault - which is a true way of debating the argument.

One could also argue that the rider should never have run - therefore the accident would never have happened - so it was his fault.

One could also argue that the girl should not have gone and visited her sick grandfather and then driven home - being in the path of the fleeing rider - therefore causing the accident and placing blame on her - valid, but thin.

One could also blame Roading NZ for not working on that stretch of road - causing the rider to lose control and therefore crash in to the girl - placing blame on them

One could also blame the Sun for shining too brightly and blinding the rider - therefore causing the accident - we would have to find Billy Connolly for this one to sue God - because it would be his fault.

One could blame Mother Nature for the Bee that flew in to the riders helmet moments before impact, distracting the rider and causing the accident.

Do you notice a common theme - the word accident!!!!  The rider is at fault because he was the one riding illegally and chose to run.  Yes, the Police are partly responsible for possibly continuing the chase unduly - however the rider did choose to run from them and in the heat of the moment instincts take over.

However, this is still an accident - the rider chose to run - but would never have chosen to kill himself and another person.  It is a tragedy yes, but placing blame doesn't change what happened and doesn't make anyone feel any better......

SPman

20th May 2003, 19:30

Hear Hear!  :niceone:

Kwaka-Kid

20th May 2003, 20:08

Put Like a true politician.. :P

haha well :done:

bluninja

20th May 2003, 20:19

WKID yes accident is the key. However we should look at accidents to see if it's possible to reduce the likelhood of this accident occuring for future road users....and all factors should be fair game. Sadly there is little we can do for those that have died, but we can work to help reduce the risk of the same fate befalling others.......then we can have the debate about safety versus personal freedom.

TTFN

festus

21st May 2003, 08:36

You can argue this topic till the cows come home!.

So I'll put in my 2 cents worth for what it's worth!.

Cops must pursue, but only till the limits of safety are exceeded. If it becomes too dangerous for themselves, others on the road or the individual being pursued, then the cop must call it and stop the chase. This is set out in their procedures.

The problem is some of them don't know when to give up!, simple as that, let it be for pride, defeat, whatever, but I thought the max speed cops where allowed to chase out of city limits was 150kph?, this guy was clocked doing 190 kph?, that tells me the cop reached speeds of 190kph too. Not a good look!.

It's been said, they knew who this fella was, got his Regno, the cop should have abandoned the chase, and went and knocked on this guy's door later!.

That's me.

Festus

 

 

 

750Y

21st May 2003, 13:10

I was told by a police traffic commander(or whatever his title was) a while back that "there are no such thing as accidents, just crashes".

my last .02 on this too.

bikerboy

21st May 2003, 13:52

:argh: Typical police attitude. An accident is any unintended or unexpected result of an action.

One goes around a blind corner and hits a cow. This is an accident. One could argue if one went slow enough one would be able to stop in time.

This doesn't make the result not an accident just possibly a preventable one. Common sense and probability must play a part in determining an accident.
:done:

Redstar

21st May 2003, 20:51

good considered replys and this is a forum right?
and we all get to say what we think. and our opinions are the product of our lifes experience's
I'll shut up now.

Kwaka-Kid

21st May 2003, 20:56

and thats how i know hes over 50! :P  hahahA!

you just dont know that life shit or think about it when ur 17 :P all u think is "oh fuck, i broke my bike.. i wanna die.. oh fuck i broke up wif my mrs.. better go make the most of being single"

:P

Redstar

21st May 2003, 21:05

bollock! Im not but Im old enough to be yer father you whipper snapper you!

Kwaka-Kid

22nd May 2003, 04:08

whoops! sorry! :P

*goes and sits in dark little room for 72 hours without food or water*

SpankMe

31st October 2003, 19:15

Well, the coroner’s inquest has said the cops WERE still chasing the guy on the speed triple when he crashed. And will they be punished for attributing to the cause of the accident and then lying about it. You bet they wont. :angry:

PZR

31st October 2003, 21:42

Originally posted by BigB
I keep asking myself why he crashed where he did, over slight brow flat sweeping left hander.

:done:

I did not see the TV program but the Herald claimed he had amphetamines and Marijuana in his blood . Don't supose this could have contributed by any chance could it??

Marmoot

31st October 2003, 22:03

You see......while people are busy arguing who gets the blame for the crash, they overlook the other problem that really gets into my nerve:
The police tendency to use their power and law to defend themselves regardless of what they do.

How the police superiors lie to protect their children as much as they can.
How the police bend the media to protect their interests.
How the police manipulate statistics and law.
And how the government always think they know what's best for us regardless of our views.

Oh well.....it's pretty normal for them to be like that anyway :(

Pitty those constables being put right in the squish between us and the power-that-be

Kwaka-Kid

1st November 2003, 05:54

marmoot i kinda agree with you

MAINLY about those costanbles!!! its not their fault, if you think they are directly to blame then you dont understand how much pressure is put upon them from above... for things like this you cant just flame the messanger... you need to go to the top.. and the top will only spread the blame out amongst the lower ones eso everybody recives 0.1% blame, if that, so it seems like none...its the way all systems like that work.. no one man you can hang by the balls...

anywh[o in my opinion they did perfect.

Marmoot

1st November 2003, 06:43

Originally posted by Kwaka-Kid
marmoot i kinda agree with you

:gob:

bikerboy

1st November 2003, 09:26

...."in my opinion they did perfect"....

Right, only two people dead, but at least they caught the speeder!:argh:

Kwaka-Kid

1st November 2003, 18:55

they caught him? no they got him killed.. even better

okay i am sorry that it was an innocent girl, i honestly would put myself in that seat instead of her any day of the week.. and no i dont exactly have a death wish as such, jsut a, i dunno, why be scared of it? life aint all that great really, its highly overrated... not enough riding/racing can be done to satisfy needs.

marty

1st November 2003, 19:43

quote from the herald today.....

"Making his comments about the police, Mr Atkins (Whangarei Coroner) said he was equally concerned that more emphasis had not been placed on Mr Brunton's actions, which were the prime cause of the accident."

don't forget to read the whole article before you lay blame.....

MikeL

1st November 2003, 21:32

Originally posted by Kwaka-Kid
life aint all that great really, its highly overrated...

Hey Logan you don't really believe that, do you? Have you been listening to too much heavy metal? What else is there to compare it to? "You are born, you die... Life is cheap, pointless, futile (we're all going to die sooner or later)"...? Crap.
Live. Enjoy. Exult.
Don't despise a unique gift.

MikeL

1st November 2003, 21:51

And, I would add, that nothing that has come to light recently has made me change my mind about the moral responsibility of the police in this matter. The fact that the biker was stoned and carrying a firearm provides some sort of retrospective justification in their view. Did they know this when they started the chase?
And did they deliberately lie about whether the chase had been called off, or was it just a terminological inexactitude?
And did someone really say that the police are really gutted when they get the call to stop a pursuit because "every one loves a chase"?

:Oops: I promised I wouldn't say any more about this case. Ignore the above.:p

Lou Girardin

3rd November 2003, 07:46

I was wondering when this thread would restart.
The report of the coroners hearing said that the first Police car pulled out of the chase when he lost his brakes. The second, a dog van, was ordered to pull out and didn't. He said he thought his dog might be needed! The third car pulled out in front of the bike, an instant before the accident. The driver said that she didn't think the order to terminate applied to her and her partner said he 'forgot' to turn off the flashers.
The biker had dope and amphetamines in his blood, but no-one has said how long before he had taken it or if it was enough to affect him.
As for the gun, maybe he was going to do some rabbit shooting. We don't know, because no - one is asking. But it makes for a 'sexy' story for the media, doesn't it.
Whangarei cops have had a reputation for a few years now for stretching the boundaries, this time they've gone bit far and been caught.
For all that, everyone involved in this debacle is guilty, except for the girl and that didn't do her much good.
Lou