Sorry chaps, there is no room in $11.5 billion for a cut

[paturoa]

From NZ Harold - > Finance Minister Michael Cullen has announced a record surplus, but says he will not know until the end of the year whether he has enough cash for tax cuts.

WTF 11.5 billion SURPLUS. Its too big for my calculator, thats about 32 million per day!!!!

Whats the bet it get positioned as an election bribe to be given to people who didn't earn it in the first place. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Have you noticed that the more money that gets spent on "social services" the wider the gap between the rich and poor gets?????:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Indiana_Jones]

That dude is a cunt.

-Indy

[Steam]

People are dying on hospital waiting lists and there are still selfish scum out there who want a frikkin TAX CUT?

[sAsLEX]

People are dying on hospital waiting lists and there are still selfish scum out there who want a frikkin TAX CUT?

So why was the 11 billion not poured in to the health system then!?

[paturoa]

People are dying on hospital waiting lists and there are still selfish scum out there who want a frikkin TAX CUT?

LOL - I've never thought of myself as "selfish scum". I kinda lean towards considering myself as someone who works my arse off to provide the best I can for my family.

Yeah agree with hospital stuff. So OK, lets put 4 BILLION into that, that should cover a few.

....that still leaves 7.5 BILLION

Now where else would you like to spend some more of the money I earnt?

[Sniper]

Why isnt the money beeing given back to people who fucken deserve it and not prisons and dole bludgers!!!!!!

[ManDownUnder]

Why isnt the money beeing given back to people who fucken deserve it and not prisons and dole bludgers!!!!!!

Pollies keep their (very very comfortable) job by being voted in... so the momey clearly needs to buy the votes of/benefit/be seen by the masses who will vote them in again. A little bit of money to a lot of people gets more votes than a lot of money to a few people.

I.e. it's better to boost the dole a bit, than cut hospital waiting lists.

[sAsLEX]

Pollies keep their (very very comfortable) job by being voted in...

They will vote themselves another pay rise, I remember my dads profession used to match MPs salaries but funnily enough they have got larger a lot quicker than the rest of NZ's salaries I wonder why?

[ManDownUnder]

They will vote themselves another pay rise, I remember my dads profession used to match MPs salaries but funnily enough they have got larger a lot quicker than the rest of NZ's salaries I wonder why?

Pay wanking. The play with themselves till what they want starts to grow... then keep going till they're gratified for yet another year.

I wonder if the payrise will go through under urgency again?

[Steam]

LOL - I've never thought of myself as "selfish scum". I kinda lean towards considering myself as someone who works my arse off to provide the best I can for my family.


Sorry, yeah I take your point. Didn't mean to call anyone specific 'selfish scum', it just bugs me sometimes that there's a lot of good things that can be done with surplus money, and the government ususally ends up wasting it on this or that or prisons or whatever, while the important stuff gets ignored.

[The Stranger]

Pollies keep their (very very comfortable) job by being voted in... so the momey clearly needs to buy the votes of/benefit/be seen by the masses who will vote them in again. A little bit of money to a lot of people gets more votes than a lot of money to a few people.

I.e. it's better to boost the dole a bit, than cut hospital waiting lists.

It's quite simple really.

The more you tax something the less of it you get.
The more you subsidise something the more of it you get.

So tax the wealthy and subsidise the poor and viola more votes.

[MSTRS]

Have you noticed that the more money that gets spent on "social services" the wider the gap between the rich and poor gets?????:mad: :mad: :mad:

Oh yeah. Give the lazy fuckers a fish. Cos they'd sell the rod and come back for the fish anyway.

[James Deuce]

Have you guys seen our balance of payments?

We don't deserve to be a "first world" country. If every investor calls in what NZ owes, that 11.5 Billion isn't enough to prevent us ending up like Nth Korea in about a week.

[ManDownUnder]

Have you guys seen our balance of payments?



We don't deserve to be a "first world" country. If every investor calls in what NZ owns, that 11.5 Billion isn't enough to prevent us ending up like Nth Korea in about a week.


You're quite right - but that same argument holds true for most countries... strangely... somehow...!

Look at the US... debt?? I'll give you debt!

[ManDownUnder]

It's quite simple really.

The more you tax something the less of it you get.
The more you subsidise something the more of it you get.

So tax the wealthy and subsidise the poor and viola more votes.

I can't fault your logic... and I find that very discomforting

[James Deuce]

You're dead right MDU, BUT there have been rumblings about Reserve Bank economic policy in NZ and our (comparatively) High Interest rates.

[paturoa]

Have you guys seen our balance of payments?

We don't deserve to be a "first world" country. If every investor calls in what NZ owns, that 11.5 Billion isn't enough to prevent us ending up like Nth Korea in about a week.



Good point - Except that is private not govt debt.

And a significant proportion of this private debt is financing homes, cars (and dare I say it bikes!).

Alongside this is our comparitive low savings rate...

So why are some many people borrowing money and / or not saving any????

Methinks these things are related.

[Big Dave]

What sky sport channel was it on?

[James Deuce]

Good point - Except that is private not govt debt.

And a significant proportion of this private debt is financing homes, cars (and dare I say it bikes!).

Alongside this is our comparitive low savings rate...

So why are some many people borrowing money and / or not saving any????

Methinks these things are related.

Yes but private debt is used by institutions that loan to Governments as an indicator that Government Finance policy is working to provide a platform for that debt to be serviced. The fact that beneficiaries can get mortgages is an indicator that Government financial policy is out of step with the requirement for that debt to be serviced.

[sAsLEX]

Yes but private debt is used by institutions that loan to Governments as an indicator that Government Finance policy is working to provide a platform for that debt to be serviced. The fact that beneficiaries can get mortgages is an indicator that Government financial policy is out of step with the requirement for that debt to be serviced.

but beneficiaries pay tax on what they are given?









Never understand that......I am paid out of tax money and then get taxed on that weird.

[James Deuce]

It's the Robin Hood theory of Govt. Taxation.

Thoroughly fucking mad. Excuse the language.

[paturoa]

Yes but private debt is used by institutions that loan to Governments as an indicator that Government Finance policy is working to provide a platform for that debt to be serviced. The fact that beneficiaries can get mortgages is an indicator that Government financial policy is out of step with the requirement for that debt to be serviced.

yeah true but I was coming from another angle ..

- if people are working, shouldn't they be able to buy stuff without using private debt.
- if people are working and choose not to buy stuff, wouldn't the balance of payments be lower with the increased available national capital.

Income re-distrubution policies are driving this.

And note the sharp end of the Capital Gain tax just got wedged in place a couple of months ago - watch this space....:weep:

Arrrgggghhhh.... this is all getting too sterile, I want to be angry and fume a bit more!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Squeak the Rat]

I like Bollards recent warning, that home-owners are not saving enough.

How can they save enough when they've mortgaged themselves up to the eyeballs and having to service their debt you ask? Exactly his point.......

[WRT]

What gets me, is (generally speaking) you have two fair ways of running a country - tax the fk out of everyone but provide all their services (medical, safe society, good roads etc), or tax them lightly but make more of a user pays society.

Seems we have the worst of both worlds, high tax but poor levels of service.

[The Stranger]

Have you guys seen our balance of payments?

We don't deserve to be a "first world" country. If every investor calls in what NZ owes, that 11.5 Billion isn't enough to prevent us ending up like Nth Korea in about a week.


So that would kind of be like banks demanding payment of every mortgage. They just wouldn't get it, plain and simple, so they would be stupid to do this. People with money to invest are generally not too stupid, though there are exceptions.

Is the 11.5 Bil going to fix the balance of payments? Whos debt are they going to relieve with that? Mine I hope.

[ManDownUnder]

Is the 11.5 Bil going to fix the balance of payments? Whos debt are they going to relieve with that? Mine I hope.


I just found some of the $11.5 Bill

Rego on bike just paid.

Licence fee $24.50 - ok so far
ACC Levy $166.50 - owwwwwwwwwww
Other Levies $1.64 - not so bad but... tax?
Administration $6.72 - I FILLED THE FORM IN - WHAT ADMIN?
GST $24.92 (A tax on a levy aka a tax on a tax??

Grand total of $224.25, total rounded down to nearest 5c.

It's obviously not the whole $11.5b... but it's a mandatory part of it

[ManDownUnder]

You're dead right MDU, BUT there have been rumblings about Reserve Bank economic policy in NZ and our (comparatively) High Interest rates.



Those rumblings are my stomach... it does that every time I get the shits

[sAsLEX]

How can they save enough when they've mortgaged themselves up to the eyeballs and having to service their debt you ask? Exactly his point.......

So one is better to shit money down the drain renting?!

[The Stranger]

ACC Levy $166.50 - owwwwwwwwwww


Quick, while it is fresh in your mind object.

See this post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=36621)

Last day today

[James Deuce]

So that would kind of be like banks demanding payment of every mortgage. They just wouldn't get it, plain and simple, so they would be stupid to do this. People with money to invest are generally not too stupid, though there are exceptions.

Is the 11.5 Bil going to fix the balance of payments? Whos debt are they going to relieve with that? Mine I hope.

That they wouldn't get it isn't in doubt, but we wouldn't be able to borrow any more money from anywhere, whihc effectively kills the economy stone dead. 11.5 billion runs Social Welfare for 12 weeks.

[sAsLEX]

11.5 billion runs Social Welfare for 12 weeks.

And that sir is one of our major problems.

[ManDownUnder]

Quick, while it is fresh in your mind object.

See this post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=36621)

Last day today

done
===
To whom it may concern.

I’ve just had the pleasure of parting with $166.50 +GST in ACC levies on my 900cc motorcycle. The basis for that princely sum is clearly based on the classification of motor vehicle.

I submit that’s a poor choice of payment basis as it ignores
• the total amount of time the vehicle spends on the road
• the distance covered during the registered period
• my age
• my gender
• class of licences held
• length of time I’ve had a licence
• my accident history

I recognise it’s impractical to take all those variables into consideration every time a vehicle is registered so I submit my support for a flat tax, added to fuel or road user charges - option 4. 100% of the required funding is levied in petrol levy

Consolidating all classes into one will also reduce the administration costs, and enforce automatic compliance of the ACC levy payment. It would also keep with the “No Fault” philosophy of ACC, which is being frustrated through its present rating bias.

I appreciate your time in considering this email.
Regards
Nigel

[ManDownUnder]

11.5 billion runs Social Welfare for 12 weeks.


Pardon me? Are you sure? (I have no facts to argue against it - I'm simply stunned at the number!)

1 Billion... per week!

I'm personally paying $250/week to the benefit?????? My household is paying $1,250/week to THE BENEFIT???

Please telling me you're shitting me...

[avgas]

Friend was telling me that back in Nirobi the government embessels (sp :P im on drugs right now) millions.....we must be really advanced society here if the government takes billions

[sAsLEX]

Please telling me you're shitting me...

No need to paint your bike mate your already flying Labour colours!

[The_Dover]

where do I sign up for this benefit lark?

working for a living doesn't seem to make much sense.

[thehollowmen]

Have you noticed that the more money that gets spent on "social services" the wider the gap between the rich and poor gets?????:mad: :mad: :mad:

Yes, the people in the middle who end up paying for the poor get dragged down to their level.

[ManDownUnder]

No need to paint your bike mate your already flying Labour colours!

LOL but the essential difference is that my bike doesn't arse rape me at every turn

[WRT]

Pardon me? Are you sure? (I have no facts to argue against it - I'm simply stunned at the number!)

1 Billion... per week!

I have no figures on this either, but based on Jim's allegation, that would mean around $240 for each man, woman and child in NZ per week paid out in benefits. Surely that cant be right?

Even if as many as half the people in NZ were on the benefit, then they would be getting an average of ~$480 each per week! Sorry Jim2, but I got to call your bluff on that one.

Or am I adding this up all wrong?

[Finn]

11.5 Billion isn't enough to prevent us ending up like Nth Korea in about a week.


Been down Queen St lately?

[thehollowmen]

I have no figures on this either, but based on Jim's allegation, that would mean around $240 for each man, woman and child in NZ per week paid out in benefits. Surely that cant be right?


I wouldn't be surprised. Social services cover things like health too don't they? and things like surgery run in to thousands of dollars.

Plus you've got the running cost of social services agencies...

But between the DPB, invalids benifit, students (allowance mostly) ... that does come to a lot.

[Finn]

working for a living doesn't seem to make much sense.

That's probably the only thing you and your boss agree on.

[The_Dover]

That's probably the only thing you and your boss agree on.

Get fucked.

He also agrees that Hondas are for faggots.

[WRT]

I wouldn't be surprised. Social services cover things like health too don't they? and things like surgery run in to thousands of dollars.

Plus you've got the running cost of social services agencies...

But between the DPB, invalids benifit, students (allowance mostly) ... that does come to a lot.

Ok, could kind of understand it if you include all the additional services as well, and are not just talking benefits. Fair call, sorry Jim2!

PS - A billion a week? Faaaark . . .

[thehollowmen]

Ok, could kind of understand it if you include all the additional services as well, and are not just talking benefits. Fair call, sorry Jim2!


And CYPS ... maybe OSH too... And the cost of running these departments... how many hundreds of employees does WINZ have alone?
plenty of departments actually are considered social services

[James Deuce]

Been down Queen St lately?

You're thinking South Korea. That would be brilliant but our standard of living will never be that high.

[James Deuce]

Oops. I meant Social Services. Sorry.

[sanchez]

Who's betting that a few months out of the next election they drop all 11 billion on a killer combination of tax cuts to gut anything national has to whine about, and a large increase in health spending.

[James Deuce]

They better not. We need to be saving like buggery for when the oil runs out. We need 50 year plans, not freaking 3 year ones.

[Finn]

This ain't about tax cuts, this is about over taxing! They've been robbing us blind and as usual, we have nothing to show for it.

Meanwhile 650 people leave NZ every fucking week. I don't blame them. I would if I could and will when I can.

[Lou Girardin]

Spend the surplus on the unhealth system, roading, various other neglected services. Then keep those services funded properly.

[Finn]

Spend the surplus on the unhealth system, roading, various other neglected services. Then keep those services funded properly.

I agree but unfortunately there's no competence in Government. They'd spend it for sure, on consultants, trips overseas and a pile of administration.

[WINJA]

These Government Types Are Scum , I Think For A Start Any Money Overspent In An Election Must Be Deducted From Your Next Election Spending , Thatll Stop Them Real Fast And Give Them A Sense Of Fairness And Then Perhaps Theyll Give Us A Tax Cut , What I Cant Believe Is The Amount Of Overseas Aid We Give To Samoa Tonga And Tokelau Etc , We Should Stop Proping Up Those Countries To The Tune Of $500,000,000 A Year And Let Them Either Think Fast Or Starve

[doc]

but beneficiaries pay tax on what they are given?









Never understand that......I am paid out of tax money and then get taxed on that weird.

What is the point of giving some one something and then taking some of it back sort of like GST on Rates a tax on a tax

Saw something recently that said

Tax is a fine for doing well
A fine is a tax for doing wrong

GST is the most insidious tax they ever dreamed up its worse than cancer

We need a revolution

[doc]

So one is better to shit money down the drain renting?!

Thats part of the problem you get people into home ownership you then have control of them (talkin about the masses here not FINN) You get the Bank Manager holding you by the balls you don't spit the dummy and head over the ditch when you prefered Govt gets the boot every few years. But its stabilises things a bit, but everyone is now into buying a rental which is speculation which the fuckers are looking at taxing again anyway plus the increase they get out of Gst when they sell. Fuck the "wild puke boy" is heading south join the Revolution...fuck how much have I been drinkin

[u4ea]

This ain't about tax cuts, this is about over taxing! They've been robbing us blind and as usual, we have nothing to show for it.

Meanwhile 650 people leave NZ every fucking week. I don't blame them. I would if I could and will when I can.


thats my thoughts excactly,i could go,if i sold my house that i worked bloody hard for, but cant work yet and have animals too old to make the move.......
acc doesnt give families the full family assistance and with 80% of an income its a pretty cutthroat existance here.......
they want me to save......hell i can hardly afford the dialup!!!!!!!!(need the insanity of kb to keep me sane........<_< )

[paturoa]

.... but everyone is now into buying a rental which is speculation which the fuckers are looking at taxing again anyway plus the increase they get out of Gst when they sell.

NOTE OF CAUTION - dont forget the anti smoking leglisalation, I don't recall the exact sequence but it went something like.

- half a resturant (sp?)
- work places
- the other half or resturants
- pubs
- RSAs

the next step is open public spaces

where is this going ???

Earlier this year our friendly taxation specailists (aka Labour Party) got the first capital gains tax started on off shore share market.:mad: :mad:

[Lou Girardin]

but everyone is now into buying a rental which is speculation which the fuckers are looking at taxing again anyway plus the increase they get out of Gst when they sell. fuck how much have I been drinkin[/SIZE][/FONT]

ObviouslY enough to not realise there's no GST on private property sales.

[LaggCity]

From NZ Harold - > Finance Minister Michael Cullen has announced a record surplus, but says he will not know until the end of the year whether he has enough cash for tax cuts.

WTF 11.5 billion SURPLUS. Its too big for my calculator, thats about 32 million per day!!!!

Whats the bet it get positioned as an election bribe to be given to people who didn't earn it in the first place. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Have you noticed that the more money that gets spent on "social services" the wider the gap between the rich and poor gets?????:mad: :mad: :mad:

I would like to give the Minister a cut ,,,,,,,,one from ear to ear

[SARGE]

You're quite right - but that same argument holds true for most countries... strangely... somehow...!

Look at the US... debt?? I'll give you debt!

yea.. but Lou says we are making a profit from the WoT

imagine the debt (http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/) if we wern't ... (thats almost US$9 TRILLION)

[Swoop]

My over-simplified brain agrees with my calculator... and cannot make sense of 11.5Billion divided by 4 Million (too many zeros... just like the beehive really...)

Remember that cunt cullen is playing with OUR money!:mad:

[sanchez]

My over-simplified brain agrees with my calculator... and cannot make sense of 11.5Billion divided by 4 Million (too many zeros... just like the beehive really...)

Remember that cunt cullen is playing with OUR money!:mad:

I get $2875 each?

[SARGE]

My over-simplified brain agrees with my calculator... and cannot make sense of 11.5Billion divided by 4 Million (too many zeros... just like the beehive really...)

Remember that cunt cullen is playing with OUR money!:mad:

must be all the 111 kph speeding fines ... :Pokey: :Police:

[doc]

ObviouslY enough to not realise there's no GST on private property sales.

Aren't some of these buyers GST registered so they claim the bit back on initial purchase then with inflation govt gets bigger bit of their risk when they decide to sell..

[slimjim]

:spanking: well the "Man" has said No Tax Cut's, on thee new's this morning,:whistle: :argue: :argue:

[ManDownUnder]

:spanking: well the "Man" has said No Tax Cut's, on thee new's this morning,:whistle: :argue: :argue:

LOL or atleast no confirmation of them Aril 2008.

Hey - as a thought - isn't that election year? How about we call the Govt's bluff and tell them to delay it a year?

[badmofo]

Who gives a shit about tax cuts? put the money into infrastructure so the country doesn't fall apart. Education, hospitals, roads, fire service, police, fuck, I could go on all day, I don't give a shit about getting an extra few bucks a week or whatever from a tax cut as long as the basic services get better funding.

I went into A&E cos I thought my leg was broken after a crash and they looked at me like a was a piece of shit on the floor and said "have you been to see your doctor" I nearly slapped the bitch, it was 8pm and I couldn't walk, so I said "I was under the impression that A&E stood for accident and emergency, this is both of those things", but I realised it wasn't her fault, they've just got fuck all funding and one doctor trying to look after everyone.

[The Pastor]

11.5 billion is only about 3 grand each. Thats not alot of dosh per person really.

Far better to move like auzzie and pay of our debts. Then we can start to act like a 1st world country.

Btw, whats a 2nd world country? we have 1st and 3rd but no second?

[ManDownUnder]

put the money into infrastructure so the country doesn't fall apart. Education, hospitals, roads, fire service, police, fuck, I could go on all day, I don't give a shit about getting an extra few bucks a week or whatever from a tax cut as long as the basic services get better funding.


Agreed 100%. I understand that's about 8 Billion accounted for, 3.5 to go.

So - the age old question - what's the best use? Encourage growth, give some back, or both?

[paturoa]

11.5 billion is only about 3 grand each. Thats not alot of dosh per person really.

There isn't much point in letting my 7 year old keep an extra $3000 of the money he earnt!

You should recalculate that by dividing by the number of people that pay tax from real jobs (ie exclude tax on pension) and you'll get a different number.

[Winston001]

Chaps and chapesses - calm down now. Here are a few facts:

The Government's total income (2005) was $51 billion. The spending on social services was $8 billion but may very well now be $11 billion - per year. Of that, approximately half goes to old folks - National Superannuation.

The $11 billion surplus is real enough but doesn't exist in a bank account. Instead it is represented by Crown assets such as the army LAVs, new hospital buildings etc. It is already spent.

While I don't like Labour, I have a grudging respect for Cullen. He is doing what households are not doing - building up a savings account for a rainy day. And trust me, it will arrive.

[paturoa]

While I don't like Labour
me too!

I have a grudging respect for Cullen.
not me, he pushes "politics of envy" which I consider in the same bracket as racist politics. Would you like me to find a few quotes?

He is doing what households are not doing - building up a savings account for a rainy day. And trust me, it will arrive.
Yes, but it is a self fulfilling arguement if you are over taxed in the first place.

A few years back 90 some % of us voted against compulsory retirement savings, (was in the end an anti-winston vote (not a dig at you Winston!)) well aren't we all real happy now - NOT.

I do not believe that I will get my due share when the rainy day arrives, for 2 reasons 1) some pollie bastard will fark it up between now and then and 2) because of 1) I'm organising myself, which means that my contribution will be given to someone else.:mad: :mad: :mad:

How this occurs to me is that I work my arse off and it gets given to others who don't (and yes that is a generalisation with worthy exceptions):mad: :mad: :mad:

[carver]

Why isnt the money beeing given back to people who fucken deserve it and not prisons and dole bludgers!!!!!!

typical...a nice middle of the road post from you....something which wont be something too technical or offensive.
you complain, but dont do anything about it.
may i ask who you voted for in the last elections?
you live your quiet lives, just accepting that being shafted is part of the deal, then moan about if
FOR FUCKS SAKE DO SOMETHING!!!!
read oldriders signature for an alternitave to our current system.
why should money be re-distributed at all?

[Sniper]

typical...a nice middle of the road post from you....something which wont be something too technical or offensive.
you complain, but dont do anything about it.
may i ask who you voted for in the last elections?
you live your quiet lives, just accepting that being shafted is part of the deal, then moan about if
FOR FUCKS SAKE DO SOMETHING!!!!
read oldriders signature for an alternitave to our current system.
why should money be re-distributed at all?

Ok, middle road post aye....

WTF can you do about it apart from write letter saying how dissapointed you are or vote for another party, WTF do you think that will do. Suddenly make MR Clarke change her mind about everything? How about staging a coup? Cant do that cause quite a few NZ'ers are opposed to being violent as well as talking big but running fast once the going gets tough. (Maybe I shouldnt say running, NZ does has a problem with obesity)

Tell me Mr Carver, what would you do?

BTW, I cant remember who I voted for cause I just ticked boxes. No matter what we were fucked.

I will complain when I feel like it, but in all honesty, I dont fucken care. I have my Fiance, a roof over our heads and a damn beautiful country I can jump on a bike or in the car and go see. Politics are way over my head.

[u4ea]

typical...a nice middle of the road post from you....something which wont be something too technical or offensive.
you complain, but dont do anything about it.
may i ask who you voted for in the last elections?
you live your quiet lives, just accepting that being shafted is part of the deal, then moan about if
FOR FUCKS SAKE DO SOMETHING!!!!
read oldriders signature for an alternitave to our current system.
why should money be re-distributed at all?
maybe if the government put out referendems and let us have our say(very little faith in overpaid mps lining their own pockets)then there would be less moaning!!!!the government makes decisions and rarely hears what new zealanders are saying....unless youre of a certain race of course.....
and as far as doing something about it......pulling head out of farken arse is a good start

[geoffm]

The surplus is a part of the picture. The other side of it is the bloated civil service - the growth in government "jobs" (and I use the word loosely) has caused a property shortage of offices space in Wellington. It used to be 40% of Wellington workers were government employees, be more than that now.
It is a good way of making the unemplyment figures look good - as long as the economy keeps going ok. When things go bad, you need to decimate the excess - in the original Roman tradition.

I am earning a lot more now than I was 10 years ago, although inflation makes the figures look less flash, but I have a worse lifestyle and less money than I did then> I have the smae cars and bikes as then, except now they are old enough to vote and i can't afford to replace them. I am giving some seriosu thought to becomign an economic refugee and moving to Oz. I have been offered work over there, and the after tax pay is higher than here.
Geoff

[paturoa]

The surplus is a part of the picture. The other side of it is the bloated civil service - the growth in government "jobs" (and I use the word loosely) has caused a property shortage of offices space in Wellington. It used to be 40% of Wellington workers were government employees, be more than that now.

yeah it takes a hole bunch a folks to administer the "income re-distribution" and collection!

[laf laf]

"im just an average rider, riding on below average roads". what more do i need to say.

[carver]

Ok, middle road post aye....

WTF can you do about it apart from write letter saying how dissapointed you are or vote for another party, WTF do you think that will do. Suddenly make MR Clarke change her mind about everything? How about staging a coup? Cant do that cause quite a few NZ'ers are opposed to being violent as well as talking big but running fast once the going gets tough. (Maybe I shouldnt say running, NZ does has a problem with obesity)

Tell me Mr Carver, what would you do?

BTW, I cant remember who I voted for cause I just ticked boxes. No matter what we were fucked.

I will complain when I feel like it, but in all honesty, I dont fucken care. I have my Fiance, a roof over our heads and a damn beautiful country I can jump on a bike or in the car and go see. Politics are way over my head.

honesty aye...
its not a case of what would i do, its what i do...
ya got to look ahead man, what can you do now and in the future..
im a affiliated with a political party, i also am the vice chair of a youth council.
pure grassroots stuff mate.



I will complain when I feel like it, but in all honesty, I dont fucken care. I have my Fiance, a roof over our heads and a damn beautiful country I can jump on a bike or in the car and go see. Politics are way over my head.

your right on here...you dont care, you wont do anything to change things...

[Sniper]

your right on here...you dont care, you wont do anything to change things...

The cuntry is fucked, nothing can be done (IMHO) to get it sorted as there are way too many different veiwpoints. Another reason I joined the army, so that I can get told what to do and only have to make desisions for myself and my team in a situation and never have to take responsibility for it.

Now if you will excuse me, I have a nurse coming to shave my stomach

[Winston001]

maybe if the government put out referendems and let us have our say(very little faith in overpaid mps lining their own pockets)then there would be less moaning!!!!the government makes decisions and rarely hears what new zealanders are saying....unless youre of a certain race of course.....


Must say I've often thought a referendum system would be good. Easy enough to set up these days online. Of course you'd only get computer literate and interested voters but that would still be a sizable chunk of 4 million.

[Dai]

I have only returned to NZ in the last 4 years, after an extended OE of 25 years in the UK.

The political situation here is still confusing to me as I havent really managed to get my head around this proportional representation as inplimented here. eg How can someone who has never been elected to represent the populace be in the position of possibly becoming the prime minister of a country?

That aside I just need to point out that in my experience all your gripes are echoed in the UK. Over there we complained about all the same things, they have a failing health system, they have what they considered bad roading, crime is dramatically heavier than in this country. Traffic offences there are classed as criminal offences and must be declared as such. The UK has VAT (GST) at 17.5%. The Uk is the most heavily taxed country in Europe. While this is not represented by the personal income taxes it is boosted by all the secondary taxes on everything else.

The government keeps growing out of proportion with what they actually require or do. The polititians are as corrupt as everywhere else. The "old boy" network is as alive as here. WHat they dont have, and I may step on a few toes here, is a problem with a treaty signed so long ago that no one alive then is around now, and all the different interpretations of such a document.

They have a massive problem with immigration and the current government there acts in a similar manner to the current NZ gov.

What I am reallytrying to say is the more things seem different the more they stay the same.

I am a firm believer that the current system of governments we have in the world are basiclly corrupt by nature. Wasnt it Plato who said that anyone who wanted to be a polititian wasnt fit to be a polititian. True 500 years BC true today.

Those persons elected , or in NZ's case appointed, to govern us forget that their duty is not to govern but to facilitate our wishes.

They make all these wonderful promioses whilst trying to get into power and then decide that they know what is best for us.

Anyway my rant is over. I hope I havent lost the plot here.

Cullen will never give away what he has clawed off us until there is some benifit to him or his friends and then it will only be a token.

BTW Income tax has only been around for just over 100 years. It wasnt implemented in the UK until 1911. A method of paying the government to tell you how much you have to pay them and for them to then tell you that they do not have enough to do as those they represent wish. Self perpetuating

[The Stranger]

Aren't some of these buyers GST registered so they claim the bit back on initial purchase then with inflation govt gets bigger bit of their risk when they decide to sell..

No.
You can't claim GST on the purchase or inputs relating a residential rental property.

[Ixion]

,,

BTW Income tax has only been around for just over 100 years. It wasnt implemented in the UK until 1911. A method of paying the government to tell you how much you have to pay them and for them to then tell you that they do not have enough to do as those they represent wish. Self perpetuating

Not so. Income tax was first introduced (in its modern form) by William Pitt the Younger in 1799 . Repealed by Addington during the short lived Peace of Amiens, but reintroduced by that same on the resumption of hotilities in 1803.

Repealed again in 1816 following the Bourbon Restoration, but reintroduced by Sir Robert Peel in 1842, and made permanent (ie it did not need to be completely relegislated each year) in 1874.The buggers could not keep their hands off other peoples money.

The Budget of 1911 introduced an extension to tax the Unearned Increment, a form of capital gains tax.

[Dai]

Not so. Income tax was first introduced (in its modern form) by William Pitt the Younger in 1799 . Repealed by Addington during the short lived Peace of Amiens, but reintroduced by that same on the resumption of hotilities in 1803.

Repealed again in 1816 following the Bourbon Restoration, but reintroduced by Sir Robert Peel in 1842, and made permanent (ie it did not need to be completely relegislated each year) in 1874.The buggers could not keep their hands off other peoples money.

The Budget of 1911 introduced an extension to tax the Unearned Increment, a form of capital gains tax.


Thanks for the information. I have spent years under the original supposition. Its always good to be corrected.

I lived in Wales for years and there you can still see evidence of when the gov tried to introduce a "window glass tax". Rows of houses with bricked up windows.

I remeber the riots when the gov tried to bring in the poll tax, real fun.

Govs are always trying new ways to rip of those tyhey are supposed to be supporting. They take the word government too literally.

[doc]

No.
You can't claim GST on the purchase or inputs relating a residential rental property.

I'm surprised that you can't if your'e running a rental property as business ie you intend to speculate. For example if the property boom did collapse and turn ito a loss, you would be unable to claim it against your income as a loss. But surely you can claim maintaince and interest costs. Pardon my ignorance but I have been assessed by investment advisers as "Recklessly Conservitive"

[doc]

The cuntry is fucked, nothing can be done (IMHO) to get it sorted as there are way too many different veiwpoints. Another reason I joined the army, so that I can get told what to do and only have to make desisions for myself and my team in a situation and never have to take responsibility for it.

Now if you will excuse me, I have a nurse coming to shave my stomach

Tell you what Sniper if thats your genuine attitude your gunna have some problems adjusting to civi life when your 20 years is up. Been there done that got the T shirt. It aint easy adjusting with that for the attitude.

[The Stranger]

I'm surprised that you can't if your'e running a rental property as business ie you intend to speculate. For example if the property boom did collapse and turn ito a loss, you would be unable to claim it against your income as a loss. But surely you can claim maintaince and interest costs. Pardon my ignorance but I have been assessed by investment advisers as "Recklessly Conservitive"

Speaking strictly residential only here.
Rentals were exempt from GST. You can not charge GST, nor do you account to the IRD for GST on rental income. Thus the IRD has no income from this source against which to balance the outgoing so no they do not allow it.

If you are speculating I would suspect the case would be different, however a property developer or speculator is in a different class and not really considered to be a property investor.

Much as the distinction between share investor or a share trader.

Even so, if you could claim GST on your residential purchase, you would no doubt have to pay GST on the resale, so would you really want to?

[Winston001]

Even so, if you could claim GST on your residential purchase, you would no doubt have to pay GST on the resale, so would you really want to?

Spot on. A professional landlord doesn't claim or pay GST on house sale and purchases unless he is trading in houses ie. buying and selling houses as well as renting them out. At that point, GST is payable but is also the least of his worries - he is up for income tax on what would normally be (for the rest of us) a capital gain.

[Winston001]

BTW Income tax has only been around for just over 100 years. It wasnt implemented in the UK until 1911. A method of paying the government to tell you how much you have to pay them and for them to then tell you that they do not have enough to do as those they represent wish.

Ixion has already explained this is incorrect. There have been taxes since before recorded history. They were called "tribute" and were paid to the tribal leader for various rights and favours. As populations grew, such payments were demanded by towns so you could cross their territory, hunt on their land, sell/trade stuff.

Taxes are not new. The reason governments change them from time to time is that they are constantly trying to find the ideal taxation system. A system which is fair to the greatest number of people with the least political pain.

I hate tax but I like schools, roads, and hospitals, so shrug and carry on.