I can't get my bike certified

[DEMONICST8]

I have a bike that was brought into the country 6 years ago, I have the ownership papers and a letter from the previous owner selling me the bike, I have also had it viewed by VINZ to verify that the Chassis number has not been tampered with, what I am missing according to Land Transport are the MAF or Customs documents stating how and when the bike entered the country. I've been told that without these I cannot get the bike certified/registered in New Zealand.
The previous owner moved over here and brought the bike over in a container along with all of his possesions, the bike has been in storage for 6 years and has never been registered.
He has since moved back overseas and has told me over the phone that all he was told was that he was not allowed to sell the bike within two years, so after three years he threw all the documents away, as far as he was aware selling me the bike and giving me the ownership papers was all he needed to do to allow me to register the bike on our roads.
As you can imagine I'm gutted, I have a bike that I paid for and have just had serviced and has only done 13000k's sitting in my garage.
Any ideas what I can do? is my only option to sell it off as parts?

[judecatmad]

The shipping company should have copies of the import docs - assuming they keep their files for a reasonable period of time. Failing that, MAF/Customs should certainly have some record of the vehicle entering the country as part of the guy's shipment, surely? It all depends on whether anyone wants to play the game tho and help you out.... You might need a letter from the guy who did the import authorising you to view copies. It might be worth a shot.....

[Ixion]

You defiantely can register it, it's a "standard" model. At worst you might have to register it as a "sratch" model , ie as if you had built one from parts.

It's a LOT more complicated though, that way , you'll need to get a police release (they check with Interpol!) and jump through lots of hoops.

Biggest problem by all accounts is that NOONE you encounter will want to help you or tell you what you need to do. But there are people on this site who ahve done it, hopefully they'll chip in their advice

[DEMONICST8]

I really hope there is a way I can get it registered, since I got the bike I havent been able to stop thinking about it, I went out and got some new riding gear and I'm all ready to go riding only to get shot down by Land Transport

[Paul in NZ]

If you are still in contact with the last owner it gets easier. You need a letter from the last registered owner and proof it was de registered in it's country of origin and that no one owes any $$ on it, the police are not looking for it and hopefully some shipping papers.

If you have no way of contacting the guy or at least getting some sort of sworn statement covering the basics, you could be in trouble.

After all - all this is designed to make is harder to ship stolen bikes off shore.

Basically you did a very silly thing and something I narrowly avoided doing myself recently. Its getting harder and harder to rego these bikes without all the proper doccuments and a trail of ownership. Chances are the guy sold it to you knowing full we it could not be registered so don't expect him to be too helpful.

Another option is to obtain a local frame from a similar bike and rebuild it with your stuff. Or take up racing.

[Harry33]

I have to agree with most of the above. What you need to do is contact the last owner find out the container number and then phone MAF they should have records reguarding the motorbike as it would have had to been cleared,inspected before been unloaded into storage. MAF check's for bugs, dirt etc.

The MAF inspector would also have filed a log sheet saying if it can be released.

If the last owner doesn't know the container number, find out who delivered the container (As well as a Date)they should have a copy of the delivery docket with the container number. All trucking companys who deliver and pickup containers have to keep records just incase MAF does a Audit.

I hope this helps :)

[Steam]

Or... buy a bike exactly the same, but a rooted and dirt cheap one maybe from the wreckers or on Tardme, reregister it if needed, and then rip the VIN and plates off that one and stick it on your fine new one. Illegal sure, but there'll be no trace except a bit of welding, maybe not even that if you get it done nice enough.

[DEMONICST8]

I am still in contact with the previous owner, he is going to the shipping company he used and is trying to find out the container number but remember it was 6 years ago, I dont hold much hope of him finding out, it would be like trying to get proof of delivery for a carton sent 6 years ago when you dont have a tracking number. He knows the date it was shipped and the rest of the details so hopefully there is still a chance.
He's a good friend and I know he didnt sell me the bike knowing I would be stuck.

[James Deuce]

Shipping records are pretty tight. I'd be surprised if he can't get the details together.

[Harry33]

I'm not to sure how long MAF keeps the records for to be honest so I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

[James Deuce]

Government records are usually archived in perpetuity. Just takes a bit of work to dig them out, but that is becoming easier and easier thanks to scanners, SANs, and systems that record data direct to archive during processing at the actual time.

[DEMONICST8]

Well he came back to me by email and mentioned MINTO 134, buggered if I know what he means, maybe its a boat, I asked him what he means but with time lines and all I probably wont get an answer for a few days.
He also tells me the container arrived into NZ at the start of August 2000.
I'm not going to give up on this I really want this bike on the road.

[Paul in NZ]

Start caputring as much info as you can. The previous rego number, sworn statements etc. End of the day someone will have to make a call on it and the more objective evidence you have the better off you will be.

get this stuff asap

[iwilde]

Easy, get him to fill out and sign a declaration from stating the details, ask the local court or JP for advice. I can't see it being a big deal for you.

[Paul in NZ]

Easy, get him to fill out and sign a declaration from stating the details, ask the local court or JP for advice. I can't see it being a big deal for you.

Not quite that simple. You usually need something from the previous country of origin, ie an unbroken string of ownership, registration etc. Something 'official'

[slimjim]

I'm not to sure how long MAF keeps the records for to be honest so I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
:innocent: yup reckon your buying the bike should have been better checked out first, as going back now seven years, record's are not helded by MAf, nor the shipping company, you have waited to long, and why bring a bike in to nz, and never get it reg or wof, seem's dodgee to begin with:bye:

[DEMONICST8]

The bikes not dodgy, its completly legit but the powers that be are making things very difficult for me.
All I want to do is ride my bloody bike!

[Paul in NZ]

The bikes not dodgy, its completly legit but the powers that be are making things very difficult for me.
All I want to do is ride my bloody bike!

It's not the govts fault mate - it's the dodgy cunts that steal bikes and cars, ship them to other countries that are at fault. Without that you would not need all the laws to stop it.

[The_Dover]

fuck it, put a plate from something else on it and ride it.

[DEMONICST8]

It's not the govts fault mate - it's the dodgy cunts that steal bikes and cars, ship them to other countries that are at fault. Without that you would not need all the laws to stop it.


I have the ownership papers and a letter from the previous owner and a signed letter from VINZ stating that the chassis number is in tact. SO IT IS THE GOVTS BLOODY FAULT!!!!!!

[Ixion]

Keep nagging at LTSA. Try to get a different pertson each time. This is (apparently) always a problem. 9 out of 10 people at LTSA will not want to help you at all and will make everything hellish difficult. Then the 10th will be helpful and it all gets resolved in a woof.

Also, try talking to a certifier. Worst case, you get it completely recertified (same deal as if you'd built it up out of parts) , cost a few hundred bucks but may be simplest in the end.

[oldrider]

As you gather supporting data and documentation, start climbing the LTSA ladder of command until you find someone with the gall to believe they have some "authority" and then their pride will give them the balls to make a decision.

Public servants live by rule books, they are not employed to "think" and make decisions, that privilege is reserved only for those in "high" places and they earn that from the "time" they spend in the service, "not" how good they are at providing the service!

So just keep taking your supporting evidence and your case further up the ladder until you find one who feels he has the "power" to say "yes"!

Be prepared for a tall ladder, public servants with balls are a rare breed!

you just have to know the system, common sense is irrelevant. :brick: Good bloody luck, you "will" need it! :yes: Cheers John.

[Paul in NZ]

I have the ownership papers and a letter from the previous owner and a signed letter from VINZ stating that the chassis number is in tact. SO IT IS THE GOVTS BLOODY FAULT!!!!!!

Hey don't get snotty with me or the Govt. There are some very clear and published guidelines and if the guy that had imported it had registered it when he arrived or if you had checked the situation or sought advice before you purchased it you would have avoided all the drama.

It's a plain fact that hundreds of bikes get stolen in places like the UK every week and are packed into containers and sent overseas to places like NZ. Our Govt and others tightened up the rules to try and prevent these bikes being registered and thus reduce the demand.

Ownership papers are easily forged or stolen and a letter? Without the official govt stamp saying the bike has been deregistered in the country it was last used in for export thats pretty well useless. I went through all this myself and while you may be lucky enough to find someone to help you, I sure wasn't.

Good luck to you with it and I'm sorry you seem pissed off with me but believe it or not I'm trying to be helpful.

Paul N

last post from me on this subject - good luck with your bike - hope it works out.

[DEMONICST8]

Sorry if you got the wrong impression Paul, I'm not pissed off at you at all, your advice has been all good.
I understand about bikes getting stolen overseas and shipped around the world but my bike is completely legal.
It just annoys me that because of thieving pricks around the world I cant ride my bike.

[limbimtimwim]

What port did the container arrive in?

[DEMONICST8]

Auckland, early August 2000
From Switzerland

[vamr]

...as a "sratch" model

...pigsty?

[FROSTY]

Dude--save yaself a shit load of hassles--gimme a yeodle.
i know a man that will be able to help you sort out this mess

[popelli]

[QUOTE=DEMONICST8;786433 what I am missing according to Land Transport are the MAF or Customs documents stating how and when the bike entered the country. I've been told that without these I cannot get the bike certified/registered in New Zealand.
[/QUOTE]

without the customs documents you are pretty well bollixed

what they really wanted to know is who paid the tax when the bike was imported

this is the reason they are being so damn awkward nothing to do with stolen bikes its another method of ensuring that each bike brought into the country has tax paid on it

however the 2 year restriction on selling is because no tax was paid on the bike

you need to prove that the bike has not changed ownership for that 2 year period

I suspect the seller is being economical with the truth and there was never any paperwork to start with

The bike was probably smuggled in the container load of personal effects and was not declared hence there is no paperwork

[bluninja]

I really sympathise with you. I'm now 3 weeks in to trying to register my RSVR in the UK. Yes I know I should have registered it when the bike arrived May 2004, but I was not financially able to insure the bike.

I brought it into NZ 2001 and went through the regsitration rigmarole, which was simple by comparison to the UK.

I have all the documentation...even the original Pre delivery inspection sheet and tax disc from the UK and a full audit trail of reg and dereg. However they still wanted a certificate of homologation, even though it was a UK spec bike bought in the UK. My lastest hurdle is that my insurance company won't insure it on the VIN, so I've had to do it on the old UK reg and hope the paperpusher allows this through (yes I have to insure it before they will give me a rego)

BTW I still have my NZ deed of undertaking for when I imported my bike.

[popelli]

try carol nash insurance I insure all my bikes thru her no problems at all

DVLA is easy to deal with, if you have insurance document, mot, customs clearance form and paperwork from country bike was sourced from there is no probleml

none of my bikes are standard and have had no problems with DVLA

[marty]

duh....read the thread - he doesn't have any of those things. that's the problem. it's not the insurance he's having trouble with - it's getting it registered/certified/vinned

[crazybigal]

i take its the zzr? anyway if all else fails buy a heap of crap and stick a plate from it on it.
Or strip it and build another with a write off frame and get it certed.
cost you about 400 bucks to do that.
your going to be jumping through govt hoops for ever!!

sounds like it was smuggled in his container, didnt want to pay the tax! and it came back to bite him so he sold it to you!


I have a bike that was brought into the country 6 years ago, I have the ownership papers and a letter from the previous owner selling me the bike, I have also had it viewed by VINZ to verify that the Chassis number has not been tampered with, what I am missing according to Land Transport are the MAF or Customs documents stating how and when the bike entered the country. I've been told that without these I cannot get the bike certified/registered in New Zealand.
The previous owner moved over here and brought the bike over in a container along with all of his possesions, the bike has been in storage for 6 years and has never been registered.
He has since moved back overseas and has told me over the phone that all he was told was that he was not allowed to sell the bike within two years, so after three years he threw all the documents away, as far as he was aware selling me the bike and giving me the ownership papers was all he needed to do to allow me to register the bike on our roads.
As you can imagine I'm gutted, I have a bike that I paid for and have just had serviced and has only done 13000k's sitting in my garage.
Any ideas what I can do? is my only option to sell it off as parts?

[popelli]

duh....read the thread - he doesn't have any of those things. that's the problem. it's not the insurance he's having trouble with - it's getting it registered/certified/vinned

duh in the uk No Insurance = no registration you can not register a bike until it is insured

you can insure a bike on the frame number alone without any registration documents

[DEMONICST8]

Well guys I'm still trying, I got another contact for land transport and have just posted all the documents off, fingers crossed it works this time.

[bluninja]

Well it all got registered (for me) last week. Popelli, tried Carole Nash but they were 500 pounds more expensive!! went with Bennetts. I just put my original reg number down and added a covering letter as though I expected to have the same reg.

Demonicst8, hope it works for you this time.

[DEMONICST8]

Nope, got knocked back again

[Qkchk]

Nope, got knocked back again

Slutted man!

Last resort as previously said........ by a wrecked/dereg bike and swap vin plates. Bada bing........

[DEMONICST8]

I'm really gutted, I think I will go try and find a wrecked/dereg bike.
Anyone know where I can get a 1996 ZZR600 frame?

[gav]

Have you talked to Frosty? Was he able to help? You might be able to find an import ZZR400 cheaper too.

[DEMONICST8]

Whoo Hoo
It's taking a long time but I tracked down the freight company he used in Switzerland to bring the container over, they have emailed me the Bill of Lading :Punk: Now I just have to get customs to give me the documents to prove that the bike was in the container.
Wont be long now till im :scooter:

[The Pastor]

Hope it all goes well, and you come along to some kB rides soon!

[Animal]

Whoo Hoo
It's taking a long time but I tracked down the freight company he used in Switzerland to bring the container over, they have emailed me the Bill of Lading :Punk: Now I just have to get customs to give me the documents to prove that the bike was in the container.
Wont be long now till im :scooter:
You poor bugger! The shit you've been through!
I hope it all works out well for you.
Keep us informed, huh?

[DEMONICST8]

Well I'm screwed. as previously stated I got the bill of lading from Switzerland and sent a copy off to customs, they came back to me saying they have no record of that container ever coming into New Zealand even though as stated above I had the bill of lading it appears customs has "lost" the paperwork.
Anyway....... someone told me I might be alright if I can prove that the bike is not stolen from Switzerland so off I go to the police station all paperwork in hand, they start a case file for me and send it off to central and interpol which brings me to today.
I have just received a call from Central saying they are not going to help me and they will not put anything on paper saying that the Police are not interested in my bike (i.e. not stolen) because it would be a waste of their time going through interpol to check, I do understand, it is a big ask.
I have also phoned and gone into a few wreckers but they hang up on me or ignore me saying they dont deal in stolen bikes and wont even let me explain that the bike is NOT!!! stolen.
So unless someone out there knows of a 1996 Kawasaki ZZR600 deregistered/wrecked bike I could get the frame from it looks like I might be selling off the bike as parts which is a waste because its mint and has only done 13000 kms

[Paul in NZ]

I'm really sorry to hear that but.... Its pretty common and i take no pleasure in saying - I told you this was not going to be easy!

You can blame the theives for this, 'cos it's the same everywhere. You have to have the documents and an unbroken trail.

You could try emailing the cops / authorities in switzerland if you know the old rego. There must be a record there but unfortunately, the swiss are notoriously - 'difficult' about some things and have little sense of humour.

The Port it entered may have a record of the container? (blimmin should do)

Cheers

[bistard]

I just had a thought,now I have not read this whole thread,but if you cant get the bike VINed,how about applying for a dealer plate,bolting that on the bike & away you go??
I know of a few guys down here that are private individuals,who have more than one bike & a dealer plate
Just a thought??

[DEMONICST8]

I am still in contact with the previous owner who has moved back to Switzerland, he has gone to the Land Transport over there but they "insist" on seeing/having the original ownership papers before they will look into it, a photcopy wont do and I'm not prepared to post them over to him, if they get lost I'm really screwed!

Going through the port it arrived wont help, I have a letter from Customs saying they have no record of the container arriving.
I think I've tried everything, I give up, if I cant find a frame by the weekend ill try and sell the bike, will be sweet for parts.

[bistard]

The only other option I have used,was to get the NZ Police to stamp & sign a form saying they have no interest in the bike(read it is not stolen) & then take it along & VTNZ will then process the bike in the normal manner
So do you know any NZ Coppers??,or can a policeman that is on here help??

[The Pastor]

yeah sweet talk come good cops, I know patrick on kb is a good one, not sure if he does traffic or not though.

[Paul in NZ]

I am still in contact with the previous owner who has moved back to Switzerland, he has gone to the Land Transport over there but they "insist" on seeing/having the original ownership papers before they will look into it, a photcopy wont do and I'm not prepared to post them over to him, if they get lost I'm really screwed!

Going through the port it arrived wont help, I have a letter from Customs saying they have no record of the container arriving.
I think I've tried everything, I give up, if I cant find a frame by the weekend ill try and sell the bike, will be sweet for parts.

Without being cute - you are screwed anyway - post the papers.

Customs don't unload the containers, the Port does, there will be a record. Convincing someone to find it is another thing..

Jeze - just buy a munted one when it comes up on trademe. They were not a common bike here so good luck. Alternately, import a wreck...

[Ixion]

Are they the same frame as the GPX600 ?

[dickytoo]

I am still in contact with the previous owner who has moved back to Switzerland, he has gone to the Land Transport over there but they "insist" on seeing/having the original ownership papers before they will look into it, a photcopy wont do and I'm not prepared to post them over to him, if they get lost I'm really screwed!




You could get photocopies made and certified by a JP, keep the certified copies and send off the originals. that way, you at least have a set of papers that could be considered "legal" if the originals do get lost. the JPs don't usually charge for their service and all it'll cost you is time.

[avgas]

reg it as a scooter. lol

[xwhatsit]

You could get photocopies made and certified by a JP, keep the certified copies and send off the originals. that way, you at least have a set of papers that could be considered "legal" if the originals do get lost. the JPs don't usually charge for their service and all it'll cost you is time.

That's Swiss Land Transport, they might not pay any attention to some NZ JP, or even recognise the system I would've thought.

[Matt_TG]

My brother in law works for Quadrant Pacific (Shipping Co), he may be able to look into the container movement if it came on a shipping line they work with. Any possibility of scanning the Bill of Lading and letting us have a look?

[Mully]

Customs don't unload the containers, the Port does, there will be a record. Convincing someone to find it is another thing.

Umm, not with Personal Effects. Most, if not all, of these are imported at the importer's premises. The port unpack very few containers.

I suggest asking who the forwarder who handled it was. And seeing if you can get a copy from them. You may have to pay for them to dig them out of 6+ years storage. By law, Customs Agents have to keep all documents for 7 years.

[dickytoo]

That's Swiss Land Transport, they might not pay any attention to some NZ JP, or even recognise the system I would've thought.


i said for him to keep the certifed copies and to send the originals. please reread my post!

[Paul in NZ]

Umm, not with Personal Effects. Most, if not all, of these are imported at the importer's premises. The port unpack very few containers.

I suggest asking who the forwarder who handled it was. And seeing if you can get a copy from them. You may have to pay for them to dig them out of 6+ years storage. By law, Customs Agents have to keep all documents for 7 years.

You are quite right but i meant unload the containers from the vessel and they need to know the numbers of the containers so they can be loaded onto the freight companies trucks. Unpacking the containers used to be called 'devanning' when i was involved in that stuff and you are quite right, the info must be held for 7 years.

However, I'm not sure this info is going to do this gentleman much good - he seems a bit ticked off by the whole process.

[DEMONICST8]

Phoned a JP on the weekend, he suggested as above that I photo copy ownership papers and send off the originals, as you said Paul, I'm screwed anyway so what have I got to lose.
I will send off the originals in a few days back to Switzerland to the previous owner who is still trying to help me, hopefully the Swiss Land Transport will have proof that the bike was deregistered.
The JP said I should also contact a lawyer and get a letter typed up to Land Transport stating everything I have done and show that I have tried everything possible and they should let me register the bike, of couse this is after I hear back from Switzerland.

I do appreciate all the input and support from you guys, I'm not quite pissed off yet, but there is a hell of alot of shit to get through just to ride a bike.

[xknuts]

Phoned a JP on the weekend, he suggested as above that I photo copy ownership papers and send off the originals

Make sure you have track and trace on your doc's. Use DHL or international courier for proof of delivery!!!

[dickytoo]

Phoned a JP on the weekend, he suggested as above that I photo copy ownership papers and send off the originals, as you said Paul, I'm screwed anyway so what have I got to lose.
I will send off the originals in a few days back to Switzerland to the previous owner who is still trying to help me, hopefully the Swiss Land Transport will have proof that the bike was deregistered.
The JP said I should also contact a lawyer and get a letter typed up to Land Transport stating everything I have done and show that I have tried everything possible and they should let me register the bike, of couse this is after I hear back from Switzerland.

I do appreciate all the input and support from you guys, I'm not quite pissed off yet, but there is a hell of alot of shit to get through just to ride a bike.




er, that was my suggestion!

[Paul in NZ]

er, that was my suggestion!


Oh goodness - now you have to read HIS post carefully... :sunny:

Once you have some record things should get easier - hope it works out for you.

[DEMONICST8]

er, that was my suggestion!

"Phoned a JP on the weekend, he suggested as above that I photo copy ownership papers and send off the originals," Yes that was your suggestion, greatly appreciated :yes:

"as you said Paul, I'm screwed anyway so what have I got to lose." That was what Paul said :yes:

Just a punctuation situation :innocent:

[JimBob]

"Phoned a JP on the weekend, he suggested as above that I photo copy ownership papers and send off the originals," Yes that was your suggestion, greatly appreciated :yes:

"as you said Paul, I'm screwed anyway so what have I got to lose." That was what Paul said :yes:

Just a punctuation situation :innocent:

Just noticed this bit about documents. Have you heard of an apostille? This is a govt to govt document authentication under a Hague convention. Switzerland and NZ are signatories to this. What it means is that for all intents and purposes, the govt of Switzerland will attest to the authenticity of these documents. The Swiss LTSA or whoever you are dealing with are obliged to accept an Apostille. Costs about 30-40$. Ring a Notary Public.

[Paul in NZ]

Just noticed this bit about documents. Have you heard of an apostille? This is a govt to govt document authentication under a Hague convention. Switzerland and NZ are signatories to this. What it means is that for all intents and purposes, the govt of Switzerland will attest to the authenticity of these documents. The Swiss LTSA or whoever you are dealing with are obliged to accept an Apostille. Costs about 30-40$. Ring a Notary Public.

Now thats handy to know!

[DEMONICST8]

Whoo Hoo, Not sure how or why but Land Transport decided two weeks ago that I could certify my bike, so last friday I took it in and it is now road legal.
Been out riding on the weekend and I still love riding bikes after all these years, was definately worth the year and a bit fight to get it going.
Thanks to everyone who has given me advice over the last year. :Punk:

[quickbuck]

Wow, bloody hell!

Here i was reading the whole thread, and looking at the dates thinking, "Who the hell is the thread dredger?"

But to find out it was you, and you finally got your bike on the road... Well, that is an extremely happy... Beginning i guess.

[The Pastor]

good to see you got it sorted in the end, ride it as much as you can and dont bin it!

[Warr]

Wow for sure!! Remember following this thread over the months/years. Victory at last. Good going. I hope you get an awesome amount of pleasure out on the road now :)

[Jantar]

Well done. I love it when common sense wins over beauracracy. :clap:

[Bren]

Just read over this whole post this morning, its like a bloody soap show....anyway cingrats on ya for getting it sorted...good to see that happy endings still exist!

[fredie]

wow congrats mate . good work . hope i dont have these big problems when i bring my 10 bikes :sick: