What's the best new model bike for trail riding

[Woody@nztrails.com]

Alright guys, The house has sold and I'm ready to retire my faithful KLX 250.

I'd like some thoughts on the current range of high performance 250 enduro machines. I really like the looks of the new KTM 250 EXCF and both the Honda and Yamaha 250's are also on my short list. The KTM looks like more bike for the money though with a lot of nice extras already on it. Any body out there own any of these models?

I only ride on trail rides, no racing etc and I've found that I can now out ride the KLX. I would like to buy a high performance 250 but I'm concerned with the stories I've heard about the cost of keeping new bikes maintained, it seems everyone know's someone who's had a Honda cost this or a KTM that cost that to fix when they weren't very old!

What do ya reckon? Am I on the right path or should I just buy a nice cheap new DRZ 400?

Cheers
Wood man

[tysonzane]

KTM KTM KTM KTM!!!

Get the picture or do i need to repeat myself haha.

Na seriously they're great bikes, dont reach an opinion of what bike to get before you ride one. Seriously, if you only take one thing i say, make it that! Just go and test ride one.

Their slogan is "ready to race", and its true, they're very relaible bikes the EXC's and are quite low matainance. I know of an early 2000 250EXC that was converted to 350 that has done over 300 hours (used as a farm bike) that just gets an oil change every 10 hours and filter every 20. Its simple. Somebody on here will be able to quote me how often it is for a piston and rings on a CRF and how much it costs etc, while yes i agree the CRF is a quick bike and it does post quick lap times on the motocross track, it isint as reliable, matainance free or trail user friendly IMO. The EXC range is really designed with the trail rider in mind, as far as trail riding goes i just wont compare it to anything else and you wont find me on any other bike other then an orange one. Its true that once you start riding a KTM you dont stop.

Have a look at a DRZ400, i still think they're the best value for money trail bike around but at the end of the day they are a very heavy bike, dont have upside down forks, dont have hydraulic clutch and the clutches seem to burn out after time.

The absolute mods for a KTM EXC i would say for trail riding are bark busters, radiator gaurds (you will drop it eventually and you dont want to have to buy new radiators!), clutch protector (cheap insurance), scuff tape (keep that baby looking like new) and a radiator over flow bottle (while KTM dont come out with one from factory it is a good mod because if you do over heat the fluid will fill up in the bootle and but then when it cools down it will go back in, because you never know when you might get stuck in a massive bog).

Another great bonus of KTM is that there genuine parts are easily available through out NZ and the parts are really cheap for OEM. Alot of the parts are like half the price of the genuine parts of Japanese bikes which gives you no reason to put aftermarket parts in because we all know that OEM parts are going to be better and more relaible. Plus the KTM hard parts offers nearly all the "race style" or performance parts you could ever want!

They're simply wonderfull. Talk to any KTM EXC rider and they'll agree. I know KiwiRider did a review of the 250 2 months ago and rated it very highly, next month there is a review of the 450 EXC and 300 EXC (2 stroker) which should be worth a look.

Anymore convincing? Im happy to offer more!! Haha

[notch]

I reccomend KTM. If you are looking for lower maintenance costs, go for a 2 stroke. I have a 300exc - and it is really impressive, four stroke like power (no big hit), with the weight of a 250 2T. The 300 doesn't rev as high as other bikes but has lots of stump pulling torque. I do piston and rings as a precaution every ~90 hours.
If you are buying new and intend to flick it after a couple of years then you will probably be fine with either.

The new 250 four strokes produce an amazing amount of power and rev to the moon and back, but the price is maintenace.

[Danger]

Are you restricting yourself to fourstrokes?

[GR81]

Are you restricting yourself to fourstrokes?
people only buy 2strokes when all other options are exhausted! :dodge:

oh wait, thats just me :(

[cheese]

I love my 2 stroke. 4 stroke = maintaince kings.

[GR81]

I love my 2 stroke. 4 stroke = maintaince kings.
every vehicle requires maintenance... such is life!

[cowpoos]

get a klx 300....reliable as hell.....and handles a bit better than the klx 250....
but with alot more grunt....and only $7495

[tysonzane]

I love my 2 stroke. 4 stroke = maintaince kings.


I strongly beg to differ with the 4 stroke EXC range... I know of a long term KTM dealer that has never had a KTM (SX race bikes included) that have never failed and the only thing done on the SX race bikes is piston and ring at about the 80 hour mark. Thats mainly just for KTM's but that rule does apply for the majority of 4 stroke motocross bikes out there these days.

[crazyxr250rider]

WR450F youll love it!!! had a go on one during the weekend just been they arent as bad as every one says they are, theyre very smoth and predictable
this one had done 120 hrs without a hint of failure

[T.W.R]

get a klx 300....reliable as hell.....and handles a bit better than the klx 250....
but with alot more grunt....and only $7495

:yes: too true, but suffer from dodgy head bearings when they're pushed a bit though:shutup:

better to hold off for a few months and put an order in for one of these puppies :Punk: milder version of the KX450F with lights

KLX450R :love:

[Woody@nztrails.com]

Thanks for the input guys.

Good to hear some positives on the KTMs. I called into XXX moto today (new KTM dealer in Auck) and jacked up a test ride - gotta tell ya that new 250 EXCF looks like sex on wheels!

Two strokes - hmmmm. Not against them or anything but I guess I grew up in a 4 stroke world. Only ever done trail rides and to be honest just never knew anyone with a 2 stroke. I know they're good now ( and were then ) and I harbour no ill will for anyone who owns one but I guess it's a bit like the old V8 v Rotary (before boy racer imports arrived). You grew up one way or the other and never crossed over?

KLX 300 - been there done that back in 97 and was not a happy owner. Kick start idler gear went into the clutch basket 3 times in a year! Impressed with Kawasaki though as they came to the party with costs. Promised myself I would never go back from the electric leg. If the new KLX450 ( or a new hi po KLX 250) was on the market now I would be staying green.

WR450 - Good mate rides one and he's done 90hrs no worries. He's a big guy though and often comments on the power being too much. I find that I can stay with him on tight stuff and only drop back in the open areas of a ride. 250's just seem a little more faster in tight stuff? Just doesn't have the same appeal as the KTM - can't put my finger on why? It should & I know they're a great bike.

DRZ 400 - too heavy! 15 kg's or so heavier than the KTM or Honda. Another good mate rides one and he loves it but I leave him well behind in the tight stuff.

I'll ride the KTM in the next week or so - try my mates WR450 and might even have a quick blat on the DRZ just to set my mind at ease (lot of money between a DRZ @$8500 and a KTM @ $13500!

[Woody@nztrails.com]

KTM KTM KTM KTM!!!

Anymore convincing? Im happy to offer more!! Haha

Don't need to much more mate, - you don't work for KTM do you? - haha

Thanks for the advise - I asked for a quote - including most of your recommedations (forgot the overflow bottle though - bugger).

[cowpoos]

KLX 300 - been there done that back in 97 and was not a happy owner. Kick start idler gear went into the clutch basket 3 times in a year! Impressed with Kawasaki though as they came to the party with costs. Promised myself I would never go back from the electric leg. If the new KLX450 ( or a new hi po KLX 250) was on the market now I would be staying green.


fair enough....that problem has be fixed....the idler gear is a beef mutha now....my klx gets used daily and does big KM's...on the farm...I have nothing but praise for the machine....well apart from constantly going through fork seals....but thats more of an enviromential problem me thinks....

I here the wr450's are good bikes though!!

[The_Dover]

Have you looked at the Husqvarna TE's?

Pretty high spec and from the reviews I've read and the riders on thumpertalk.com they are pretty shit hot bikes.

[tysonzane]

Don't need to much more mate, - you don't work for KTM do you? - haha

Thanks for the advise - I asked for a quote - including most of your recommedations (forgot the overflow bottle though - bugger).

Naa dont work for KTM but am pretty good friends with a KTM dealer who convinced me and my rather large group of riders who were converted from Suzuki's and me and my father from Honda's. We call it the orange club now haha.

KTM dont make a overflow bootle as they believe it is not needed for casual off road activities or short burst races but im doing neither so i've opted for it. I imported it for about $50 through EBAY, its a very simple design and i considered replicating so if you're a very handy man then you could make your own.

Im not sure if its possible but i'd be keen to know that if in the future (like the single cam KTM's) you could swap piston/barrell to get a larger capacity. Like put a 450SXF barrell on the 250excf (not sure what cc that would make), because then you'll have 6 speed (SX is only 4 and they're having trouble converting it to 6 this year :( ) and the road kit and all the other enduro stuff. Because the 250exc (single cam) was quite dissapionting in terms of power so the 350SXS big bore option was available (which i think may have been a piston and barrell off a 450) and then made the 250 (now a 350cc) into a pearler of a bike.

The 400 exc could also be an option for you, im not completely sure on the wieght this year but last year the wieght and handling type setup was exactly the same (because it was ultimately the barrell and piston that was different between the 2 models). The 400 has got a much more softer hit and linear power delivery then the 450 which is a bit more brutal. If you're considering a DRZ400 then definately have a look at the 400 exc as it has a bit more power across the first half and the same type of linear power delivery but quite a bit more smooth power up top where as the DRZ tappers off. But something else to consider is that 2007 maybe the last year of single cam 400's so it might be outdated by 2008, i dont know...

[merv]

I considered buying a 450EXC two years ago from Motomart and was impressed with the general finish and fittings of the KTM, but then I checked the specs and for a general dirt/road kind of guy like me I was disgusted at the gear ratios. The damn KTMs all have the same bottom end and the same gear ratios so whether you wanted an SX, MX or enduro type machine they were all the bloody same except for some secondary ratio differences. The EXC should have had a wide ratio box, it didn't, so I bought a WR Yamaha instead and have no complaints about that though six gears would have been better than the five it has, still with a wider spread than the six speed KTM. Ridiculous you say, for sure.

[notch]

merv, are you sure about that? Maybe it was a misprint... I was sure the sx definately has different ratios to the exc, and then even the mxc... maybe 2005 was a dud year!

[crazyxr250rider]

................................WR450 - Good mate rides one and he's done 90hrs no worries. He's a big guy though and often comments on the power being too much........Dude Im 14, if I found the power smooth and manageable enough then you should be able to manage you will just get sick of doing piston and rings on honda's,DR-Z are over weight pigs......(fine to ride but wait until you get it suck....)stick with the proven performer...

[notch]

Here's the 2007 ratios:

Gear ratios for 2007 250cc 2 stroke models
sx xc xcw
1 0.50 0.47 0.47
2 0.63 0.62 0.65
3 0.75 0.75 0.83
4 0.88 0.88 1.00
5 1.05 1.05 1.26

Gaps between gears
sx xc xcw
1-2 25.0% 31.9% 40.1%
2-3 20.0% 21.9% 26.3%
3-4 16.7% 16.7% 21.1%
4-5 19.7% 19.7% 26.1%

[merv]

Sorry didn't make myself too clear I meant EXCR because I am talking the 4-strokes. I checked the guff I have from 2 years ago and what I'm moaning about is the primary ratio - back then they were all running 33/76 gearing which is only 2.3:1 whereas my WR250 runs 3.353:1 and a WR450 2.82:1. I know the SX only had 4 speeds and the box ratios themselves were all different but I wanted a much greater spread on the EXCR 250 or 450 between 1st and 6th particularly to have a lower 1st gear so if the going gets tough you can putter along more like a trials rider than roosting and slipping the clutch. e.g. on rocky tight ground or in trees and stuff like that. I rode the EXCR and for a dude like me the gears were just too close and put me right off.

The actual box ratio for first gear on the WR250 is 31/13 whereas the 450EXCR was 34/14 so not a lot different there. Now you can see just how tall the gearing was in first because of that primary ratio and the problem is for a dude like me who wanted to ride slow trails and fast and not always try to ride like Stefan Merriman I could not make up the difference in sprocket changes. Overall we are talking of the WR running about a 30:1 first gear on stock sprockets and the EXCR 16.7:1 so damn near twice as tall.

As for choice of bike, try them and buy what suits you, that's what I do and some probably think my tastes and expectations are totally weird. However if that's what I feel comfortable riding then that's what I like.

[Woody@nztrails.com]

Dude Im 14, if I found the power smooth and manageable enough then you should be able to manage you will just get sick of doing piston and rings on honda's,DR-Z are over weight pigs......(fine to ride but wait until you get it suck....)stick with the proven performer...

Mate - at 14 I had no fear either and there was no motorbike too powerfull! At 36 - I need to know I can go to work on Monday & pay for the toys my son is going to start wanting real soon! My mate with the WR has stacked it and hurt himself good a couple of times now and each time, he's said he was just pushing it too hard. I agree the power is managable and comes smoothly - it just never seems to stop coming though! I get a little concerned when you can't keep a front wheel down with the throttle on full for the first 3 gears! I hate to sound like I'm getting old, I need to have fun but stay in control......don't ya hate growing up!

[kro]

get a klx 300....reliable as hell.....and handles a bit better than the klx 250....
but with alot more grunt....and only $7495


I'd go the KLX 300 too, they have a damn good spread of power, and are a damn site more comfortable than most other bikes of their age. My Brother bought an 06 model Jan this year for the price cowpoos quoted, and got a Pro circuit T4 thrown in to the deal.

I didn't think there would be a lot of difference between a 250 and a 300, but there is a BIG difference.

[tysonzane]

All of the KTM's i've riden i havent had a problem with the gearing in fact i have always thought that the first gear on the recent model EXC is far to short and the top speed was waay to high. I've brought the top speed down on my bike to around 140kph in 6th which is still too high for trail riding ( i want to get the gain in acceleration from dropping the max speed), i do however understand about just been able to idle through first gear in really tricky bits and the KTM is very good at doing that because they're actually quite a hard bike to stall which was a big difference my friends noticed between the EXC's and the DRZ400. So just make sure you ride one to see if its the same with the new 250's, remember you can also tune this quite a bit by fiddling with sprockets. Even on my ex 350 EXC with the 6speed SX gearbox (from the 250 SX) with a first gear of about 15-20 kph it would still idle along nicely and be quite hard to stall, it was just on hard hairpin corners you had to clutch to keep the revs up and stay in the power but boy did it make up for it with how close the gearing was!!!

The EXC's engine can be compared to "tractor power" because they're quite torquey with a smooth torque and power pattern and if you're going up a hill and start to lose it or find you're a gear too high you can just chug along with what you're in and its very unlikely to stall.

I understand what you're saying about buying a bike that is fun to ride and wont hurt you, the EXC fits this categeory very nicely. A major difference between the EXC and the Hondas i switched from was that i was not finishing rides with a sore back or other body parts and then having to go easy on your body for the next week. There are a lot of little things about KTM's that you'll discover after owning one and then absolutely fall in love with it!

[crazyxr250rider]

Mate - at 14 I had no fear either and there was no motorbike too powerfull! At 36 - I need to know I can go to work on Monday & pay for the toys my son is going to start wanting real soon! My mate with the WR has stacked it and hurt himself good a couple of times now and each time, he's said he was just pushing it too hard. I agree the power is managable and comes smoothly - it just never seems to stop coming though! I get a little concerned when you can't keep a front wheel down with the throttle on full for the first 3 gears! I hate to sound like I'm getting old, I need to have fun but stay in control......don't ya hate growing up!
fair enough although there is ACC..........(just kidding)

[Woody@nztrails.com]

Well, I rode the 250 excf and it created more questions than it answered. I was suprised at how little torque it had down low. There is no doubt that the power came quickly once the revs climbed and it was very impressive in this respect. I'm going to give the 450 EXC a go next weekend and see how that goes - maybe it won't scare me as much as I thought it would? Or maybe I just need to teach myself how to ride again? The old KLX was just so different down low!

Thanks for your all your feedback - To the KLX300 fans, if it had an electric leg I'd be looking at it as I'm not going back to kickers only again! I also want to stroke my ego a little with something that has some "bling" factor to it?

[merv]

I imagined all the modern 4 strokes with short strokes engines would suffer lack of low end torque. Once Brendan from Sawyers got me to try the WR250F how wrong I was hence I bought one. It pulls like an XR250 down low but then screams on another 4,500rpm to 13,500rpm. I guess its all in the high compression and electronic control.

As per my comments above the only thing I found wrong riding the KTM, and this applied to the 250EXCR I rode was the gear ratios were too close. I didn't notice a lack of low end, but it did vibrate worse than I expected.

What am I telling you? Well I have found the Yamaha engine nothing short of fantastic. No complaints about torque or power at any revs and it thumps so hard it really hooks traction, something the XR's can do, but my DR250 never would hence I dumped it. Engine longevity though is presumably far better on the older style KLX300 motor not being as highly strung and probably having a piston not as flat as a pancake.

[Woody@nztrails.com]

Cheers Merv - valid comments- for some reason I've ended up wearing these orange tinted shades and I'm struggling to see much else. Read a great review on the new Yamaha's in Dirtbike downunder and I'm still circling back to KTM? I'll see how the 450 goes on the weekend and go from there. I've heard the new Yamaha 250 is not due to christmas and I'd prefer to launch into the Glenn Murray, Paeroa and Paparimu trails rides in early Dec on a new something!

[Motu]

I imagined all the modern 4 strokes with short strokes engines would suffer lack of low end torque.


A common and obvious misconception Merv,we are taught to think short stroke means revs - but the trials guys found out in the late '60's that a radicaly short stroke meant stump pulling torque.A long stroke motor ''hangs on'',typical of an old British single,but a short stroke gives that pull right off the bottom,the stuff that pulls the front wheel up like it's conectted by a wire to the throttle.But the trick that has taken so long to get to us was to get the spread of power.We all remember powerbands in both 2 and 4 strokes....they are a thing of the past,now motors make power right from idle to 5 figure rpms.

[Woody@nztrails.com]

XXX moto leant me their brand new 450 EXC for the weekend and I've been having a good fang around the farm. It has the low down pull the 250 was lacking and the spread and manageability of the power was spot on for me. The new Yamaha will probably be very similar but the orange just looks so good!

It seems my pre-conceptions about 450's was mis-guided. Should have known better.

Don't really want to take it back tomorrow! Have to see what kind of deal the guys can put together for me!

Thanks for all your advise and thoughts guys! Look out for me at Glenn Murray, I'll be the bloke with the stupid grin on his face!

[Woody@nztrails.com]

Did the damage and took possesion today! I'm in love - Can't wait for Sunday. XXX moto did me a good deal so anyone looking for a KTM - give them a call!

See you in the dirt!

[tysonzane]

Good call mate! I told you that you simply had to test ride one before coming to a judgement... The 450's have alot of power but its still very manageable and just a ball ripping weapon (some of the time...).

You wont be the only brand new KTM out there tomorrow. I'll be in a group of 5 KTM's.

Enjoy the world of KTM :D