Finally some common sense [Archive]

View Full Version : Finally some common sense

wkid_one

5th July 2004, 19:33

Education for Brit speeders

29 June 2004 <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=5 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD height=5>http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/images/null.gif</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>By DAVE MOORE

There's some good news for drivers in Lancashire, England – anyone caught on camera doing 35mph (58kmh) in a 30mph (50kmh) zone won't get a fine.

They'll be given a caution instead. The move is part of a review in Lancashire, where police are pushing education rather than enforcement.

Skyryder

5th July 2004, 19:39

Some common sense at last. Wont happen here though. Our politico's don't have any.

Skyryder

Bandito

5th July 2004, 19:51

WHAT? no easy revenue for our peoples govervment,start with a warning that would be lost income! What are they thinking over there? :bash:

Lou Girardin

5th July 2004, 20:24

Ahh, guys. We don't get pinged for 8 km's over either!

Bandito

5th July 2004, 20:27

Ahh, guys. We don't get pinged for 8 km's over either!
NO yet But it IS

scumdog

5th July 2004, 20:47

You're better off in the 50 area as 10k in the 50 is 20% but in the 100 it's 10% - or something :Oops:

Hitcher

5th July 2004, 20:58

There's no money in education, unless they can get drivers to invest in an NCEA in motoring... Or get Asian language students to pay for a New Zealand driver license...

spudchucka

6th July 2004, 10:23

vifferman

6th July 2004, 10:31

The snakes did something similar in my patch recently, everyone caught between 61 - 65 got a nice letter in the mail saying "you have been snapped at ??kph - please don't do it again" or something like that."The snakes"? :confused2

Is this an appropriate forum to moan about knee-jerk reactionism? Every time something happens, we need a new law to fix it. F'rinstance - the fatal 4WD crash in the weekend; seemed to have occurred because some flamin' noonahs were driving on the beach too fast, beyond their abilities, and weren't wearing seatbelts. So - let's throw some more legislation and restrictions at it. Lets' make it illegal to drive on the beaches. Let's put some policemen there (when they could be doing something more useful). Let's spend money on signs, and TV adverts. Maybe [Beach Sand Kills] would be a good slogan.:Pokey:

NO - let's NOT. People will continue to kill themselves regardless of laws and restrictions. Surely that's their perogative?

First thing I'm going to do when I'm God is to repeal most of the laws, rules and regulations.:cool:

jrandom

6th July 2004, 10:41

"The snakes"? :confused2

Spud is a Proper Cop.

Is this an appropriate forum to moan about knee-jerk reactionism?

Well, if we banned it, the post count would halve...

F'rinstance - the fatal 4WD crash in the weekend; seemed to have occurred because some flamin' noonahs were driving on the beach too fast, beyond their abilities, and weren't wearing seatbelts.

"We come from the land of the ice and snow..."

They were visitors from that segment of the world the natives of which are so unfairly associated with bad driving in the minds of many knee-jerking reactionary Kiwis.

I've driven down that beach in 4x4s many times, and doing 90kph in low visibility (which was probably 110, if that's what he told the cops) on tyres inflated at road pressure, without seatbelts, when you've never been there before, is (well, duh!) a good way of committing suicide. That Landcruiser would have fishtailed, flipped and rolled SPECTACULARLY.

vifferman

6th July 2004, 10:45

I've driven down that beach in 4x4s many times, and doing 90kph in low visibility (which was probably 110, if that's what he told the cops) on tyres inflated at road pressure, without seatbelts, when you've never been there before, is (well, duh!) a good way of committing suicide. That Landcruiser would have fishtailed, flipped and rolled SPECTACULARLY.Natural selection at work. You fuck up, you pay for it.

spudchucka

6th July 2004, 14:52

"The snakes"? :confused2
Affectionate term for traffic cops.

s this an appropriate forum to moan about knee-jerk reactionism? Every time something happens, we need a new law to fix it. F'rinstance - the fatal 4WD crash in the weekend; seemed to have occurred because some flamin' noonahs were driving on the beach too fast, beyond their abilities, and weren't wearing seatbelts. So - let's throw some more legislation and restrictions at it. Lets' make it illegal to drive on the beaches. Let's put some policemen there (when they could be doing something more useful). Let's spend money on signs, and TV adverts. Maybe [Beach Sand Kills] would be a good slogan.:Pokey:

NO - let's NOT. People will continue to kill themselves regardless of laws and restrictions. Surely that's their perogative?

First thing I'm going to do when I'm God is to repeal most of the laws, rules and regulations.:cool:

I'm not sure what prompted you to blurt out all that. Thankfully you won't ever be God!

spudchucka

6th July 2004, 14:54

Natural selection at work. You fuck up, you pay for it.
It should be more like, You fuck up, you die, the rest of society pays for it.

vifferman

6th July 2004, 15:29

I'm not sure what prompted you to blurt out all that. Thankfully you won't ever be God!It's not that I'm in favour of anarchy - I just think that the current trend of legislating everything is getting a bit ridiculous. F'rinstance - I made a very nice fishpond in my front garden as a present for my wife for Christmas. I have a sneaky suspicion that according to the council by-laws, it probably should be fully fenced, in case some kid climbs in and drowns themselves. Now while I understand the intent of the by-law, the enforcement of it is daft. Are rivers, drains, culverts, lakes and seas all fenced? Is it sensible that I fence my wife's pond when it's far more likely that any kid who trespasses on my property and swims in the pond is far more likely to wander onto the road (given that in either case they're inadequately supervised) and be squished?

I'm in favour of personal accountability rather than legislated and enforced control of people's actions. If my kids drown because I haven't taught them water safety, then that's tough luck. If they drown in a neighbour's pool because I didn't supervise them properly when they were young and foolish, then I'm not going to go looking for someone else to blame - I know where the blame lies. I'm not going to go to the media and say "There should be a law against this!" That's just stupid, yet that is what happens. People moan, so they institute another law.

A good example of this is the so-called "Boy Racer" bill. Most of the content of this was already covered by existing law, with the exception of the police being able to impound cars if they deem people to be using them for racing, and vague subjective things like "excessive acceleration" or "unnecessary acceleration" being illegal. WHAT?!? A guy at work got pulled up because the cop said "You sounded like you were speeding. I know you weren't going faster than 50k, but it sounded like you were going fast". For fucks sake! This is just crap. What has this to do with protecting other road users?

Yes, Spud, I KNOW that sometimes innocent parties get hurt when people do stupid things. But making everything cozy and safe (and boring) eventually makes normally well-behaved, responsible people bust out, say "Fuck this!" and deliberately break the law, because life becomes so grey and dull and restrictive. There has to be BALANCE. And the way to a better society is not to legislate, restrict, confine, impose, and police, as these things don't address the causes of crap that happens. That's like nailing the stable door shut after the horse has bolted.

Why did those people die on the beach? I don't know all the details, but I'd be willing to bet it was because of attitude:
"I don't need to wear a seatbelt".
"It is fun to go fast on the beach, even though I'm a crap driver".
"I'm not a good driver, but I'll have fun, even though it endangers my family". "I don't know about driving on wet sand, but I'm gonna do it anyway".
And maybe even: "It's mind-numbingly boring driving on the road - at least here on the beach we can lark around a bit."

By the way, Spud - it may not be your intention, but your post made it sound like you were in favour of creating laws to cover crap that happens.
If it wasn't what you meant, then I apologise. Regardless of whether it was or not, don't you already have enough to do, without more laws to police?

jrandom

6th July 2004, 15:35

"I don't know about driving on wet sand, but I'm gonna do it anyway"

If they'd stuck to the *wet* sand, they probably would have been fine.

And maybe even: "It's mind-numbingly boring driving on the road - at least here on the beach we can lark around a bit."

More like they saw Joe Westie heading down onto the beach and thought it would be fun to do the same. Pity they missed the bit where he let his tyres down to 15psi.

MikeL

6th July 2004, 16:00

The people killed in the Landcruiser were Korean immigrants. It's a good bet that they had never driven on a beach back in Korea. Asians for various reasons have a much more restricted range of experiences and opportunities in their homeland than we do. It's not surprising that when they come here bad things happen. Preventing those bad things from happening (i.e. protecting them from themselves) without ruining things for the rest of us is a challenge for the authorities. Unfortunately there is a good chance that they will react in the only way with which they are familiar and comfortable - not innovative, creative (read "expensive") targetted education and training programmes, but further tightening up of existing regulations and consequent erosion of our freedoms.
BTW the absurdity of our contemporary approach to problem-solving is illustrated by the swimming spool fencing laws. When I lived in Tauranga I had a spa pool which had to comply with numerous requirements to prevent children falling in and drowning. Yet I put in a large fish pond in the garden, at least 2 feet deep in places, with absolutely no restrictions whatsoever. When I pointed out the inconsistency at the local council office I was told not to make a big thing of it because if people started giving the council a hard time about it the inevitable result would be the introduction of similar requirements for fishponds. Whether it has happened yet I don't know but it must come.

Skyryder

6th July 2004, 16:53

The snakes??

Affectionate term for traffic cops.

How the English language changes. When I grew up in the 50's the word snake was a derogutory term for policman. I am going back to the days of the bodgies and widgies and get,this bikers were milk bar cowboys. Bit of an oxymoran realy when the word cowboy is american and the 'cowboys rode British bikes. I have no idea how the word snake came to be assosiated with policeman but I understand it was a kiwi term.
With the advent of tv in the early 60's the term was replaced with more common epithets.

Spud do you have any idea how the term came to be used in the manner you describe??

Skyryder

spudchucka

6th July 2004, 21:20

If my kids drown because I haven't taught them water safety, then that's tough luck. If they drown in a neighbour's pool because I didn't supervise them properly when they were young and foolish, then I'm not going to go looking for someone else to blame - I know where the blame lies. I'm not going to go to the media and say "There should be a law against this!" That's just stupid, yet that is what happens. People moan, so they institute another law.
I know what you are saying but its very easy to make statements like that while your kids are still walking around using up oxygen.

with the exception of the police being able to impound cars if they deem people to be using them for racing, and vague subjective things like "excessive acceleration" or "unnecessary acceleration" being illegal. WHAT?!?
Like any new law it requires testing in the Courts to determine the threshold of what is reasonable.

A guy at work got pulled up because the cop said "You sounded like you were speeding. I know you weren't going faster than 50k, but it sounded like you were going fast". For fucks sake! This is just crap. What has this to do with protecting other road users?
The cop doesn't need a reason as such to pull someone over, the cop may have suspected he was speeding and was probably just fishing for a confession.

Yes, Spud, I KNOW that sometimes innocent parties get hurt when people do stupid things. But making everything cozy and safe (and boring) eventually makes normally well-behaved, responsible people bust out, say "Fuck this!" and deliberately break the law, because life becomes so grey and dull and restrictive. There has to be BALANCE. And the way to a better society is not to legislate, restrict, confine, impose, and police, as these things don't address the causes of crap that happens. That's like nailing the stable door shut after the horse has bolted.
I'm not really dissagreeing with you but I'm sure confused about how this thread ended up going down this line????

Why did those people die on the beach?
They died from stupidity!!

By the way, Spud - it may not be your intention, but your post made it sound like you were in favour of creating laws to cover crap that happens.
Was it this post??

The snakes did something similar in my patch recently, everyone caught between 61 - 65 got a nice letter in the mail saying "you have been snapped at ??kph - please don't do it again" or something like that.

Sorry mate but I don't see how that prompted you to go off on this tangent.

If it wasn't what you meant, then I apologise. Regardless of whether it was or not, don't you already have enough to do, without more laws to police?
No it wasn't what I meant, I really can't figure out how you got that meaning. Yes policing is a very busy job and the pollys will always dream up more things for them to do.

spudchucka

6th July 2004, 21:29

The snakes??

How the English language changes. When I grew up in the 50's the word snake was a derogutory term for policman. I am going back to the days of the bodgies and widgies and get,this bikers were milk bar cowboys. Bit of an oxymoran realy when the word cowboy is american and the 'cowboys rode British bikes. I have no idea how the word snake came to be assosiated with policeman but I understand it was a kiwi term.
With the advent of tv in the early 60's the term was replaced with more common epithets.

Spud do you have any idea how the term came to be used in the manner you describe??

Skyryder

Before the merger of police and MOT the police used to call the traffic cops "snakes". The term is still used for traffic cops these days but is usually more in jest than meant as a derogitory term. For instance at the end of a shift the sergeant will come through and ask the troops how many tickets did they "snake" today, the bright flouro vest and coats worn by traffic cops are refered to as "snake skins".

Hitcher

8th July 2004, 10:50

"The snakes"?

A better term than "mermaids"...

Lou Girardin

11th July 2004, 15:38

Before the merger of police and MOT the police used to call the traffic cops "snakes". The term is still used for traffic cops these days but is usually more in jest than meant as a derogitory term.
I hear of lot of terms used in jest about the IRD patrols these days, usually a 'c' preceded by an f'ing.
Laugh? I nearly started.

sAsLEX

11th July 2004, 17:27

Had a pool on the navy base once that would of only been a foot deep that had to be removed, yet there are unfenced cliffs within 50m that drop straight into the sea/rocks, somethings I just dont understand.

spudchucka

11th July 2004, 20:18

[QUOTE=spudchucka]Before the merger of police and MOT the police used to call the traffic cops "snakes". The term is still used for traffic cops these days but is usually more in jest than meant as a derogitory term. QUOTE]

I hear of lot of terms used in jest about the IRD patrols these days, usually a 'c' preceded by an f'ing.
Laugh? I nearly started.
You still can't get that quote thing right.

The "c" & "f" words were used by the general public when talking about your mates in black & white too. The term "snakes" was used by the police to describe the MOT's. Traffic cops have always had to bare the brunt of public ridicule, always have, always will. It just stinks of sour grapes when ex traffic cops start bleating about how bad the traffic cops of today are.

Lou Girardin

12th July 2004, 21:23

You still can't get that quote thing right.

The "c" & "f" words were used by the general public when talking about your mates in black & white too. The term "snakes" was used by the police to describe the MOT's. Traffic cops have always had to bare the brunt of public ridicule, always have, always will. It just stinks of sour grapes when ex traffic cops start bleating about how bad the traffic cops of today are.

There's a lot of them. Something must be riling them.
I know, it must be the grossly unfair manipulation of Police resources to ensure a healthy revenue stream.

spudchucka

13th July 2004, 15:14

There's a lot of them. Something must be riling them.
I know, it must be the grossly unfair manipulation of Police resources to ensure a healthy revenue stream.
Or that they couldn't cut it, wussed out and now they get off on pretending to others that they are better than those doing the same job today.

Mongoose

13th July 2004, 15:17

Or that they couldn't cut it, wussed out and now they get off on pretending to others that they are better than those doing the same job today.

And there I thought a lot of snakes were wanna be *Real* cops :brick: