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View Full Version : Attention Southern KB venture riders.(and interested Northerners)



oldrider
27th October 2006, 21:51
Calling all Southern KB venture bike riders who are planning to attend the South Island KB ride in at Otematata on December 9 2006.

In the interest of venture bike riders I would like to know how many of you would be interested in coming through on the Friday night and then going for a local ride on the Saturday before meeting up with all the other KBr's for the stopover on Saturday evening?

The ride I envisage would possibly be from Otematata across the Omarama saddle to Saint Bathans, then across to Naseby (perhaps for lunch) then back to Otematata via Mount Ida syndicate block and Otematata station through Otematata and back to the Rugged Ridges shearing sheds in time for the southern KB gathering in the evening.

I doubt whether any of you have ever been through the Otematata Station road before but some of you have probably been over the Omarama saddle track before.

It is quite a long ride so if that is too big we can do variations to suit, maybe just across the Otematata Mount Ida to Naseby track and return with a little difference built into the return route!

This would be a bit subject to weather and river conditions of course.

I am going to check out the route on Sunday 5 November just to make sure that it "is" still OK for all venture bikes so if I can do it on the TransAlp anyone else should be able to shit in.

You will need to have good tyres as some of the rocks in the area tend to be a little bit sharp here and there if you are not careful.

We will check out exact distance and sort out fuel requirements and backup etc etc before we go so no one is left in the poo.

Can someone run a poll or something to see what interest there would be in adding this on to the KB ride in weekend at Rugged Ridges shearers quarters at Otematata on the w/e December 8/9/10 2006, I will do the rest at this end in getting permission to go through the farms in question.

I have already got most of them.

None of this conflicts with any other organised rides, like the Southern Passes ride etc so it is all different territory. (as far as I am aware) Cheers John.

far queue
27th October 2006, 22:27
This weekend that you guys are organising down there is sounding better and better all the time. Unfortunately I wont be able to make it, so would you mind not making me any more jealous :(

miSTa
28th October 2006, 19:59
Count me in John. :yes:

Transalper
28th October 2006, 23:13
I would have been keen but have other comitments that weekend sorry.

PLUG
29th October 2006, 10:23
... bastard ... another commitment ... otherwise I'd be there with bells on ...

Ruralman
29th October 2006, 13:34
How do you guys organise your Canterbury Rides - is it very non structured or do you have a club or roster or something?
In whichever case would it be possible to look at other dates that most of you guys could come down for the ride OR has described?
I am pretty keen to do it if its suitable for the T/A (sounds like it should be OK) but I won't be able to get there to do it on the MT Cook trip weekend. Is there any other dates before or after this that don't clash with other significant things?? (There seems to be a lot of rallies on but some of these you may be happy to skip)

far queue
29th October 2006, 14:12
How do you guys organise your Canterbury Rides - is it very non structured or do you have a club or roster or something?
In whichever case would it be possible to look at other dates that most of you guys could come down for the ride OR has described?
I am pretty keen to do it if its suitable for the T/A (sounds like it should be OK) but I won't be able to get there to do it on the MT Cook trip weekend. Is there any other dates before or after this that don't clash with other significant things?? (There seems to be a lot of rallies on but some of these you may be happy to skip)Very non structured - we’re just a disorganized rabble, with no club affiliations for these rides. Someone has an idea for a ride they want to do, and the rest of us go along or not, depending on what other commitments we’ve already got or whether the ride interests us. The Labour day adventure ride we did was organised by a local bike shop, hence the big turnout.

The rallies I’m doing this season, and not skipping, are …
4/11 Maitai Rally - Near Nelson
25/11 Magpie Madness Rally - Near Winchester
3/2 Vincent County Rally - Near Alex
3/3 March Hare Rally - At Waimate

The Vincent and March Hare rallies will see me exploring the back roads down your way, so something could be arranged then. Between now and xmas I won’t be getting away for a weekend other than the 2 rallies above. I’ll get out for the occasional day ride but that’s it for now. Post xmas, I don’t have any definite plans at this stage, although I’d like to head Nelson way for a good look around at some stage between xmas and 14 Jan.

oldrider
30th October 2006, 20:05
Well it snowed heavily on the hills around here last night! There is a white blanket right across the area from Otematata to Naseby.
Just where I wanted to go and check out the road this weekend.
We were going to check the track for suitability for a ride for KB venture bikers on the KB ride-in in December.
The river is fair roaring down as the level builds up from the fast snow melt today.
Somehow I don't think we will be going very far this weekend after all, unless the river drops really fast.
It also seems that not too many venture bike riders are coming down for the shearers quarters ride-in anyway so I guess I will have to flag the proposed ride.
Another time perhaps?
I can rustle up a pretty interesting and mildly challenging short ride for anyone who is interested at the time, if it should be wanted. :mellow: Cheers John.

Ruralman
30th October 2006, 20:32
Thanks for that John - your contacts and local knowledge will be a huge asset in planning a trip through the backcountry in that area, and it would be fantastic country to do an adventure ride through.
I hope we can pull something together that attracts the bulk of the canterbury adventure riders down as I'm sure we'd have a great weekend as well as great riding

Just looking through farque's post again - is there any interest in a mid-late January weekend?? The fire risk might be bloody high in that high country which could effect access but it would be warmer and the river would be lower.?

Transalper
31st October 2006, 08:15
I definately would be keen for another date specifically for an adventure run based around Oldriders area.
I'm not in to the Rally scene anymore so am fairly flexible on weekends. Cooneyr and Farqueue are a little harder to tie down as they have a lot of family etc stuff happening in there lives.

far queue
31st October 2006, 11:33
Just looking through farque's post again - is there any interest in a mid-late January weekend?? The fire risk might be bloody high in that high country which could effect access but it would be warmer and the river would be lower.?This thread, and ways to get down to you guys has been nagging at me for a couple of days, with the following result …

Just an idea at this stage, but the Vincent County Rally is on Fri 02 and Sat 03/02/07, the rally is roughly halfway between Ruralman and Oldrider, and Waitangi Day is on Tues 06/02/07 – Sooooooo ... as I’ll be at the rally anyway and in the middle of your backyard, I was thinking that MAYBE I could take the Friday and Monday off and …

Friday – Take the backroads (MacKenzie, Haka, etc) to the Kurow Motor Camp
Saturday – Backroads from Kurow to the rally
Sunday & Monday – 2 days to explore wherever with accommodation booked somewhere along the way.
Tuesday – The backroads to home

Ruralman and Oldrider – does any of this interest you?
Ruralman – this is close to you & Jantar’s passes ride departing on 11/02/07, is this a problem?

Canterbury Guys/Gals – anyone interested? Suggestions? Alternatives?

Any other KB’ers out there interested?

RE the fire risk mentioned at this time of year. It could be pointed out that we ride fairly mild off road bikes, with spark arrestors, are willing to carry fire extenquishers if required, and are older riders not young hoons.

So, just a thought I'm throwing out there at this stage ...


I'm not in to the Rally scene anymore so am fairly flexible on weekends.No problem, there are probably others not interested in the rally either, so perhaps that group could peel off and do their own thing, then we could meet up again in the morning.

cooneyr
31st October 2006, 12:46
As TA said it is a little hard for me to make commitments so far out but I'm definatly keen to explore the area. At this stage there are no firm plans for mid jan on but get in early and I might be lucky. I'm not that into the rally scene either but FQ's idea sounds interesting. Will definatly watch this space.

Cheers
R

PLUG
31st October 2006, 13:38
... sounds like a plan FQ ...

far queue
31st October 2006, 17:32
As TA said it is a little hard for me to make commitments so far out but I'm definatly keen to explore the area. At this stage there are no firm plans for mid jan on but get in early and I might be lucky. I'm not that into the rally scene either but FQ's idea sounds interesting. Will definatly watch this space.

Cheers
R
I find that early planning, and planting the idea with the other half early makes life easier further down the track. The idea has therefore been presented to her indoors and passed the initial planning phase approval, on the understanding that things could/probably will change. I've also been told that Waitangi day is the last day of the school holidays, in case that affects anyone else out there.

Ruralman
31st October 2006, 19:21
This is looking interesting - I wonder whether you guys, and possibly me as well, with families could also consider setting them up at the Otematata or Kurow Motor camp for a night or two??? If there was a few of them there they should have a great time and we could do the ride and also spend time with them??

I admit I haven't thought this through completely myself but its worth tossing into the mix - it could also mean, perish the thought, that 1 or 2 bikes turn up on trailers behind the family wagon.
I'm still anguishing over what next trail bike to buy - I need to get something else for my 15yr old son - and I'm tending back to getting him to ride my KDX220 (even if I have to put the standard pipe and jetting back in to slow it down a bit) and getting a 600-650 thumper so that I can do some of the multi day rides that require better off road ability than the transalp but also need a road registerable bike. I would need to put some serious knobbies on it to do the off road trail rides I like to do - but by Feb I might have this and depending on the set up I might be happy to bring it on a trailer.

far queue
31st October 2006, 20:08
... it could also mean, perish the thought, that 1 or 2 bikes turn up on trailers ...What :shit: be a trailer faggot :gob: I don't think so :no:

... I'm still anguishing over what next trail bike to buy ...What about a KTM? 640? 525? Very capable off road performers, and road legal.


... but by Feb I might have this and depending on the set up I might be happy to bring it on a trailer.and talk to who :oi-grr: :dodge:

Ruralman
31st October 2006, 20:41
If it was a KTM 525 by the time I got to Otematata my arse would be so sore I'd be bloody crippled for the weekend.
OK FarQue I take your point about the trailers - my only issue was if I have something set up with good off road and non road legal knobbies.
I suppose I could always park down the road and just ride the last bit?????
I still like the look of the TTR600 - mainly due to the excellent suspension set up on these and the really long lived motors - but also because most of you poofters won't buy something you have to kick start any more so you can get one at a pretty good price.
The big KTM's will be more than I'm prepared to spend to get a good one.
As a bit of an aside we had a big trail ride locally at the weekend - the lake to the Sea ride - 650 riders this year. Bloody good ride with lots of variety. I talked with the chief organiser at a meeting last night - he made the comment that when they did the "dead bike run" with the big tandem trailer to bring home allthe bikes that had broken down, there was a very high proportion of KTM's on the trailer - way higher than their % of bikes on the trip. Most had had a severe motor malfunction.
I thought KTM had a pretty good reputation for their engines so maybe theres a few riders that are learning the hard way about the maintenance required on a modern high performance 4 stroke??

far queue
31st October 2006, 21:13
If it was a KTM 525 by the time I got to Otematata my arse would be so sore I'd be bloody crippled for the weekend.I’ve never sat on one, but yes, I can imagine. Why do they make dirt bike seats so bloody hard these days?
OK FarQue I take your point about the trailers - my only issue was if I have something set up with good off road and non road legal knobbies.
I suppose I could always park down the road and just ride the last bit????? 2 points – 1. Is a cop really going to read the sidewall of your tyre to see if it’s DOT approved? 2. If that’s a concern to you, why are you wanting a road legal bike to put them on, and then not ride on the road?

I still like the look of the TTR600 - mainly due to the excellent suspension set up on these and the really long lived motorsDo you want me to have a look see if that TTR is still at Sportzone?
- but also because most of you poofters won't buy something you have to kick start any more so you can get one at a pretty good price. That’s rich from a trailer faggot

As a bit of an aside we had a big trail ride locally at the weekend ... I talked with the chief organiser at a meeting last night - he made the comment that when they did the "dead bike run" with the big tandem trailer to bring home all the bikes that had broken down, there was a very high proportion of KTM's on the trailer - way higher than their % of bikes on the trip. Most had had a severe motor malfunction.
I thought KTM had a pretty good reputation for their engines so maybe theres a few riders that are learning the hard way about the maintenance required on a modern high performance 4 stroke??I had heard this about KTM’s, but I’ve heard more good things than bad, and as you say, possibly a maintenance issue by the owners.

cooneyr
1st November 2006, 07:04
I find that early planning, and planting the idea with the other half early makes life easier further down the track. The idea has therefore been presented to her indoors and passed the initial planning phase approval, on the understanding that things could/probably will change.

The seed is planted. Will see where things go from here.

R

Ruralman
1st November 2006, 21:55
I’ve never sat on one, but yes, I can imagine. Why do they make dirt bike seats so bloody hard these days?2 points – 1. Is a cop really going to read the sidewall of your tyre to see if it’s DOT approved?

No its more a matter that I would be putting it on for almost all off road stuff until the day I book in to do one of these multi day things that requires a road legal one - and if I ride far on a serious knobbie on seal it will stuff it pretty quick I would expect. I don't think I'd have like riding with a road legal one at the weekend - would have done a lot of pushing.

2. If that’s a concern to you, why are you wanting a road legal bike to put them on, and then not ride on the road?
Do you want me to have a look see if that TTR is still at Sportzone?
There's one in Dunedin I'll have a ride on and about 3 on Trademe that should be pretty negotiable. I think most of them are over priced in spite of having low mileage, which is why they haven't sold - probably the kick start is the big factor and a lot of fellas going for the really light machines.


That’s rich from a trailer faggot
Yeah yeah yeah - but I'm sure we'll enjoy a beer and a few yarns

I had heard this about KTM’s, but I’ve heard more good things than bad, and as you say, possibly a maintenance issue by the owners.

All I had headr about KTM before that was that they were tough engines - it actually surprised me.

far queue
1st November 2006, 22:14
Yeah yeah yeah - but I'm sure we'll enjoy a beer and a few yarnsToo right, I'm just taking the piss, I reckon it'd be bloody good to get a group us together down your way for few days exploring.

warewolf
2nd November 2006, 06:31
I suppose I could always park down the road and just ride the last bit?????Otematata Trailer Week...excellent! Ya gonna wear chaps and have half-naked bird on the pillion, too? :Punk: :innocent:


I take your point about the trailers - my only issue was if I have something set up with good off road and non road legal knobbies.I admit I trailer the trail bike when it's in hard-core dirt mode, sans-mirrors, -indicators, -DOT tyres etc, but that's to trail rides only.

If you are that way inclined there are quite good DOT-approved serious knobbies available. Unlike NZ where motocross bikes with NHS tyres compete in enduros, rest-of-world run road-legal enduro bikes with FIM- & DOT-approved knobbies. You still have the problem of chewing them out on the tar, but I bet you'd spend less in knobbies than fuel for the car & trailer.


there was a very high proportion of KTM's on the trailer - way higher than their % of bikes on the trip. Most had had a severe motor malfunction.
I thought KTM had a pretty good reputation for their engines so maybe theres a few riders that are learning the hard way about the maintenance required on a modern high performance 4 stroke??Dunno what's going on there. It would be interesting to find out.

I bought my LC4 18 months ago. At the time I did a fair bit of research into them. Once I started digging, I found so many instances of inexplicably grenaded Jap and BMW singles I figured there was no point shying away from KTM on the grounds that the others were allegedly bullet-proof.

Ruralman
2nd November 2006, 09:30
[QUOTE=warewolf;809376]Otematata Trailer Week...excellent! Ya gonna wear chaps and have half-naked bird on the pillion, too? :Punk: :innocent:


OK the chaps are definitely bloody out - but as for the other now let me think..................

As for these tyres, if I get one of these bikes then it looks like I should go and have a look through a few catalogues and see what is available in road legal knobbies that would handle our trail riding conditions. I never have to push my KDX and I wouldn't be keen to start on something that will probably weigh another 30-40kgs.

oldrider
2nd November 2006, 15:47
Gone are the days of (half ?) naked girls on the back of my bike, these days I would have to wear my wet weather gear! :shit: so :crybaby:or :doh:

Ruralman
2nd November 2006, 19:10
Gone are the days of (half ?) naked girls on the back of my bike, these days I would have to wear my wet weather gear! :shit: so :crybaby:or :doh:

Are you talking about the gear thats like taking a shower with a raincoat on?????????????????

oldrider
2nd November 2006, 20:37
Are you talking about the gear thats like taking a shower with a raincoat on?????????????????
It's not funny if you have to explain!
Us oldies jokes are even out of date now, you youngsters have moved on and we are too slow to keep up.
Thats why we end up laughing at our own jokes, talking to ourselves and then they lock us up to keep their women, cats and dogs safe. :zzzz:

Ruralman
5th November 2006, 16:06
It's not funny if you have to explain!
Us oldies jokes are even out of date now, you youngsters have moved on and we are too slow to keep up.
Thats why we end up laughing at our own jokes, talking to ourselves and then they lock us up to keep their women, cats and dogs safe. :zzzz:

John one of our cats hasn't been around since your visit, any idea...........???

oldrider
5th November 2006, 20:56
We have been for a ride over some of the route that I had suggested on this thread just to check and see whether or not I was talking through a hole in my hat or that this would be the sort of venture ride that I had envisaged.

Well there is some good news and some bad news depending upon your point of view and just what a "venture bike ride" means to you!

I have taken some pictures but just enough to let you see what it is like and maybe see enough to tell if you would be interested in going on such a ride sometime in the future.

First, we did not complete the ride, the snow storm last Sunday made it a little too wet (for my tyres) under foot and brought the creeks up to the "only if you have too" crossing level for us, so we got to the last big ford and turned around and came home. (and it's going to snow again)

The 4x4 clubs that came through on the Saturday had quite a lot of difficulty, got stuck in the snow, got lost and had to be rescued and redirected by a local cocky in his helicopter, then guided out by the farmers wife late last night.

One vehicle is still out there because it got two flat tyres and they only had one spare!

Bit of a circus really but "we" got home OK! (Blows gently on his nails!)

Question? Would you like me to post a ride report and some of the pics?

I don't want to force my posts onto the forum unless people are interested, there was not a lot of interest for the ride I offered but I think that may have been just due to KiwiBiker's prior commitments and bad timing on my part.

Meanwhile I will post a couple of pics here to give you a taste. Cheers John.

1) Heading for the far horizon.
2) As far as my tyres E08 would safely take me.(Don't be deceived that shit is "soft" and it's quite steep.)
3) Looking ahead.
4) The last big (Deep) ford.
5) Some rugged rocks. (They go on and on)
6) Coming down off the tops. ( lookat the zig zag and the road below)

PLUG
5th November 2006, 21:07
... you're just teasing us OR ... :yes:, i for one would :love: to hear more of your ventures ...

oldrider
5th November 2006, 21:09
1) A small ford.
2) The last small ford on the way home.
3) A little moon man I found out there. (He rode his wee bike all the way out, he has just turned nine.) But not wearing that suit. He canned off a few times, got soaking wet and had to be dragged off his bike because he was freezing cold. I am very proud of him. He insisted on riding home on the back of granddad's bike, rather than ride in the truck..
4) The quiet road home.

Ruralman
5th November 2006, 21:13
Great photos John - it looks like it would be a really good ride but the wet tracks would need to be dry for the Transalp's with our current tyres wouldn't they?
The steep track stuff looks Ok for the T/A and I guess the river would need to come down for all of us.
Do the tracks on that easier country dry out enough in the summer or is it always at risk of being wet up there? (if its wet then the DR's etc on knobbies would be the best bet)
Any idea what the total distance would be and more importantly, distance between fuel stops?
Do you reckon your son in law would loan you his DRZ for the day?

Jantar
5th November 2006, 21:57
I can assure you that once the snow has gone and summer hits, that this area does dry out. So much so that it becomes a fire risk and many farmers start to restrict access. Even horse shoes connecting with rock can cause enough of a spark to start fires by mid february.

cooneyr
6th November 2006, 06:24
I don't want to force my posts onto the forum unless people are interested, there was not a lot of interest for the ride I offered but I think that may have been just due to KiwiBiker's prior commitments and bad timing on my part.


Awsome looking country OR. Lived just north of the river when i was about the little mans age. Keen as mustard to get back down and have a look around. The timing was difficult for me but definatly interested in the Waitangi weekend idea.

Cheers
R

oldrider
6th November 2006, 13:08
I can assure you that once the snow has gone and summer hits, that this area does dry out. So much so that it becomes a fire risk and many farmers start to restrict access. Even horse shoes connecting with rock can cause enough of a spark to start fires by mid february.

Jantar is quite correct, this area is a land of extremes of all types of weather conditions, not a place to take lightly or to take unnecessary risks in.

You do so at your peril!

The distances that we travelled were recorded on Tamara's support truck, 105km from the Otematata garage.

My bike, 90km from Otematata garage.

Aaron, 38km (to the deep ford) from the Otematata station back yards where the trail bikes were unloaded and set up to ride the trail. (76km return)

So as you can see I very nearly made it on the TransAlp and probably could have battled my way through had it been absolutely necessary to do so.

I don't think I could have got through and returned back up through the snow and mud, even with big knobbly tyres I reckon I would have found it beyond me, I am just not strong enough anymore.

I was very impressed with my daughter Tamara's handling of the 4x4 support vehicle, it was just on the limit of it's capability and it was her first time in such conditions.(she done good)

Unfortunately we didn't get any pics of that part of the run.

Also bear in mind there is still a long way to go once you have successfully negotiated the ford through the Otematata river anyway! (and we were coming back)

See the pic below of the road ahead once over the ford.

The river ford is about just under 3/4 of the whole trip but I think the tracks are usually about the same standard as those we had already passed over not withstanding the current state of the snow plane.

There are some pretty awe inspiring scenes on the journey including the old gold workings behind Kyeburn and believe me there is a hell of a lot of rugged territory in there.

It is due to my experience out in this territory (103,000 acres just on one of the farms) that I wonder just what is the meaning of our biking terms, like what "is" a venture biker, when does he become an "off roader" or a "trail bike" rider.

I would love to have had an "accomplished" BMW 1200GS bike and rider with us just to see how they handle these sorts of conditions.(I would love a big bike like them)

When I watched the Long run home on TV I knew there were many of the sorts of conditions that they experienced right out here on our doorstep, just not so much of it.

After all a bog is a bog once you are up to your arse in it, it doesn't really matter where abouts in the world you are, you are literally "in the shit" and you have to get your self out of it!

I won't do a separate "ride report" on this event as it is mostly family stuff from here on, I was just worried that I might post too much info here and it might be the wrong forum for it.

Any one interested in this sort of ride will get enough intro material out of this thread to make up their mind if it is what they would like to do.

The trail bikes really knocked it off no trouble at all (well!) whether or not bigger venture bikes can hack it depends on how they are rigged and how experienced the riders are.

Experience is everything really and how else do you get that? Experience I suppose! Just do it! :yes: Cheers John.

1)The last quarter, beyond the horizon.A lot of the white in the background is not snow, it is old gold workings.
2)View, upstream from the Otematata river ford.
3)Another shot approaching the ford.
4)Note the KTM left laying in the grass at the ford??
5)The bridge at the Clear Stream above the junction with the Otematata river.
6)The triumphant girls crossing the last small ford on the way home.

far queue
6th November 2006, 22:32
Excellent work there OR, you did well, and great Pics too.

What a great country we live in for this sort of thing. Having just come back from a wee play around the Nelson area, and now looking at your pics, the difference in the landscape is quite marked. It's great to have such a variety of terrain to explore, and to be able to get access to it.

I feel the need to get so much more riding done, oh well, I guess the terrain has been there a while and isn't going anywhere in a hurry.

Jantar
6th November 2006, 22:56
It is due to my experience out in this territory (103,000 acres just on one of the farms) that I wonder just what is the meaning of our biking terms, like what "is" a venture biker, when does he become an "off roader" or a "trail bike" rider.
Its hard to put a clear definition on what particular category any bike falls into. There are many rides that are listed as adventure rides that can only be completed by trail or enduro bikes, and anyone a true "Venture" bike would be mad to attempt. There is a whole range of terrain from super highways through good sealed roads, back country sealed roads, gravel roads, dirt roads, 4WD tracks, dirt tracks to unmarked. I have always used Adventure riding to mean that the bike is capable of any type of road, with some (but limited) off road capability.

An adventure bike is effectively a road bike that is capable of continuing onwards when sports bikes or cruisers turn back. A trail bike will continue on when an adventure bike would turn back.

cooneyr
7th November 2006, 07:27
Its hard to put a clear definition on what particular category any bike falls into. There are many rides that are listed as adventure rides that can only be completed by trail or enduro bikes, and anyone a true "Venture" bike would be mad to attempt. There is a whole range of terrain from super highways through good sealed roads, back country sealed roads, gravel roads, dirt roads, 4WD tracks, dirt tracks to unmarked. I have always used Adventure riding to mean that the bike is capable of any type of road, with some (but limited) off road capability.

An adventure bike is effectively a road bike that is capable of continuing onwards when sports bikes or cruisers turn back. A trail bike will continue on when an adventure bike would turn back.

Since we are having this discussion - I recon a venture bike is a bike you would/can pretty well anyware with the least maintenance. There is no requirement to be the fast or most flashy mover. With my 4x4 background I dont care if it takes me all day to get somewhere and I dont care if I'm a nackered at the end the point is to enjoy the scenery and simply being there. A MX bike is good off road but not so good on road (long term maintenance due to road running is going to be a pain) and a road touring bikes are about the other end of the spectrum (maintenance due to off road running is a pain). This lead me to big bore 650 single (DR650) i.e. low maintenace, capable on and off road. In saying this there is never a perfect venture bike, each bike will be best suited to one part of the spectrum but still a venture bike if you want to use it to get somewhere. Think of the places the BMW R1200GS have been. They are by no means a lightweight or perfect off road but they can and will take you "there" if you ask nicely. To me a Transalp/F650SG(dakar),KTM Adventure,BMW GS,any low maintenance trail bike (i.e. not highly strung, change top end every 60 hours beast), plus bound to be others, are worthy contenders for the name venture bike.

I could just be talking shite given that I've been into bikes for about 2 years but I think the same philosphy applies to adventure 4x4s as well. No point in using a racing 4x4 to travel across the world and no point in using Merival Tractor to climb mountains without taking your time and being careful. I seriously think people tend to over equip their vehicles just so they dont get stuck and embarised. Who cares if you get stuck, its all part of the adventure as long as you are not being stupid i.e. crossing a swolen river instead of waiting a day. Completly :Offtopic: :dodge:
Cheers
R

oldrider
7th November 2006, 11:49
Its hard to put a clear definition on what particular category any bike falls into. There are many rides that are listed as adventure rides that can only be completed by trail or enduro bikes, and anyone a true "Venture" bike would be mad to attempt. There is a whole range of terrain from super highways through good sealed roads, back country sealed roads, gravel roads, dirt roads, 4WD tracks, dirt tracks to unmarked. I have always used Adventure riding to mean that the bike is capable of any type of road, with some (but limited) off road capability.

An adventure bike is effectively a road bike that is capable of continuing onwards when sports bikes or cruisers turn back. A trail bike will continue on when an adventure bike would turn back.

I think you have summed it up pretty well there Jantar.

I was never good enough to cut it on the race track but would loved to have given it go.

Today's attitudes to road laws and penalties ruin the best part of sports bike riding and have raised the stakes too high when you are testing "all" of the limits!

For me anyway, that leaves sports bikes out of my bike riding/ownership equation.

I don't believe I can cut it with the trail bikes anymore and now consider myself to be a road rider.

That means if it is a "road" I should be able to ride it, no matter what condition it is in, providing that it is passable.

I have been really mulling over whether there is such a thing as the "universal" bike. IE: A bike for all occasions.

I bought the TransAlp believing that it should be able to provide me with the widest range of applications to suit my needs and to it's credit it has done extremely well so far.

Any other brand of bike could do it but I have traditionally used Honda so I go with what I know also IMHO they are very reliable machines.

I think the bike is slightly more capable than I am so we are a good match as long as I don't get too careless or carried away with myself and try to cut it with the younger riders when they rip into it. (I have learned that the hard way!)

Getting the right combination of tyres and treads is proving critical, currently I have managed to find the right tyres for maximising road performance but they came up short on Sundays ride in the mud.

It was the lack of control of the front wheel that made me decide to park the bike on a rock on Sunday!

With only marginal rear traction I would have lost the front completely in the snow drifts, mud and slush that we encountered over the next 4 to 5km, after that it was a piece of wees again.

I am hoping that the Mitas E07's that I have on order will prove to be the right combination of tyres to cover the whole spectrum, if that is actually possible to achieve!

I was very impressed by a rider (whose name avoids me just now) on a KTM 990? who joined us on a ride through the Black Forest on the W/E of the March Hare rally.

I would loved to have had him and a comparative combination on a BMW1200GS with us on Sundays ride, it would have been an excellent opportunity to evaluate the two bikes in the conditions!

I only single out these two because generally they are promoted as the ultimate venture bikes, it would be great to have the whole selection available to evaluate their performance!

It is funny but no matter how logical you try to be, it still comes back to "bigger is better" or "more cubes" and "faster", lurking in the back of your mind, influencing your thinking and decision making processes.

I think I have enough bike to contend with at the moment but when I really think about it the "moments" that I have now are probably about all that I am going to get!

You tend to forget about that while you are having fun.

Conclusion: Yes I think I fit into the "venture biker" category all right but can it all be done with just one bike!. That is still the question? :scratch: Cheers John.

warewolf
7th November 2006, 12:39
I tend to agree with the definition of adventure bikes being bikes that can ride any road. However, I would expand that and say, "It's the rider, not the bike." To whit, the RTW chap on the R1. Or closer to home, my Trophy did more dirt than my Tiger, simply because it was the bike we were on when we hit dirt.

You can adventure on anything; adventure describes the ride not the bike.

Of all types of riding, I reckon adventure riding is by far the biggest, widest compromise, which is why it is so many things to so many people. An adventure ride can encompass days of tarmac in foul weather, best suited to a leadwing. Then some 'canyon carving' as the 'murricans call it, sprotsbike-style. Maybe some fast open gravel road riding with lots of luggage and a pillion, perfect for an R-GS beemer. Finally, chuck in some snotty 4wd or single-track where you wish you had a light & nimble 2T enduro weapon, suitably tyred. All that on just one ride!

Jantar
7th November 2006, 12:54
Warewolf, you've got it exactly. Pavement + Dirt = Adventure.

In my younger days I did it all from road racing to long distance touring, endurance rides, trial rides, enduros, and Moto-x. Over the past few years I found that more and more I was taking my sports bike where other sports riders just wouldn't go, and when on tour i'd go looking for the gravel roads. That's why I changed to the VStrom.

oldrider
7th November 2006, 17:10
I tend to agree with the definition of adventure bikes being bikes that can ride any road. However, I would expand that and say, "It's the rider, not the bike." To whit, the RTW chap on the R1. Or closer to home, my Trophy did more dirt than my Tiger, simply because it was the bike we were on when we hit dirt.

You can adventure on anything; adventure describes the ride not the bike.

Of all types of riding, I reckon adventure riding is by far the biggest, widest compromise, which is why it is so many things to so many people. An adventure ride can encompass days of tarmac in foul weather, best suited to a leadwing. Then some 'canyon carving' as the 'murricans call it, sprotsbike-style. Maybe some fast open gravel road riding with lots of luggage and a pillion, perfect for an R-GS beemer. Finally, chuck in some snotty 4wd or single-track where you wish you had a light & nimble 2T enduro weapon, suitably tyred. All that on just one ride!

No disputing what you say but the number of times I get negative comments about my bike being the wrong bike for wherever I happen to be riding when off the tar seal, it got me to wondering if I really knew what sort of bike I actually owned myself!

Most of my riding time has been on my own, so I really don't know much about what is normal for the wider biking community.

That is what I like about KiwiBiker, I have never had such a great mix of opinions and experience etc available, literally at my finger tips! Cheers John.

far queue
7th November 2006, 17:42
The Ride

An adventure ride is what ever you want it to be. To some, it's riding the gravel roads, and to some it’s riding the gnarly tracks and river beds, in each case with at least some seal thrown in to get there and back. If you feel it’s an adventure for you then good on you for getting out there and doing it, and don’t worry what anyone else has to say about it.

My definition of an adventure ride for me, is to ride any road or track I’m capable of in the circumstances. That means seal, gravel, riverbed, 4wd track, single track. The circumstances for me to avoid are deep water crossings with big slimy rocks – I hate the things. The essence of an adventure ride for me is to get out there and explore the nooks and crannies of this varied and interesting country of ours.

The Bike

An adventure bike is whatever bike you want to take on the above rides, there’s no right or wrong bike. The capability of the rider has more to do with what bike will make it through. You could go as far as to say the less suitable the bike, the bigger the adventure will be.

I chose the DR650 because it’s capable of going everywhere I’m interested in going, and was great value for money. It’s probably more capable than I am, which is just fine by me. It lacks some of the comfort of the Transalp on the road, but it makes up for it with it’s capabilities off road. I’m certainly no top rider and will happily take my time and enjoy the ride and the views. I want to be taking the memories and the photos of the scenery home with me.

So ...
There will always differing opinions, don't worry about it, just get out there and have fun :ride:

warewolf
7th November 2006, 21:21
No disputing what you say but the number of times I get negative comments about my bike being the wrong bike for wherever I happen to be riding when off the tar seal, it got me to wondering if I really knew what sort of bike I actually owned myself!That's kinda my point.

A big compromise is always going to be 'wrong' much of the time. That's the downside. The upside is that it is 'capable' much of the time.

Is the fuel tank half full, or half empty? :whocares:

Keith the Pom
8th November 2006, 23:39
DAYUM! John, some of those off-road riding pics look more than a little 'challenging'. I've never done THAT sort of riding before, ever. S'pose you would call me a sealed road [only] ... poofter-type o' geezer.

Be gentle with me when I get down your way, the worsestest surface that I have ever negotiated was up in NI back in January (sse attachment) and now, upon reflection, that looks kinda tame by comparison to what I might be letting myself in for come January + March '07 (gulp!):

miSTa
9th November 2006, 05:50
A somewhat dainty way of holding camera there....:laugh:

oldrider
9th November 2006, 09:55
A somewhat dainty way of holding camera there....:laugh:

I wondered what the hell you were on about until I opened the pic and looked in the rear vision mirror. (lol)

Pretty pinkies there Keith! :yes: Cheers John.

Jantar
9th November 2006, 10:15
DAYUM! John, some of those off-road riding pics look more than a little 'challenging'. I've never done THAT sort of riding before, ever. S'pose you would call me a sealed road [only] ... poofter-type o' geezer.

Be gentle with me when I get down your way, the worsestest surface that I have ever negotiated was up in NI back in January (sse attachment) and now, upon reflection, that looks kinda tame by comparison to what I might be letting myself in for come January + March '07 (gulp!):
That's the beauty of the South Island. No matter where you want to go there is a variety of road types to get you there. You chose the route that takes you on roads that you are happy with.

oldrider
9th November 2006, 10:49
That's the beauty of the South Island. No matter where you want to go there is a variety of road types to get you there. You chose the route that takes you on roads that you are happy with.

Yes and Jantar is right, given the right conditions of the day and you can ride them on a sports bike with road tyres but then conditions change so quickly sometimes that they can become impassable in an instant.
It doesn't pay to take unnecessary risks with dear old mother nature anywhere in NZ.
That has been my experience anyway and a lot of it learned the hard way too. (slow learner :sick: ) Cheers John.