Esmonde Road Bus Lane - BUSTED! [Archive]

daveeasey

29th October 2006, 10:11

Hi all

I just received an identity request from the 'boys in blue' over my use of the bus lane in Esmonde Road. Anyone else received one recently - it was on the 19th Oct and another bike went past the cop ahead of me ?

I reckon it's coz they've recently changed the layout at the on-ramp and they want to deter bikes using the bus lane with the imminent arrival of the busway.:whocares:

Anyway I intend fighting the bstds with the following reply:

Please note that I was the rider of the above vehicle at the time of the claimed offence. As far as I am aware however I did not commit an offence by using the bus lane in Esmonde Road.
I am aware that Transit Bylaw 2002/19 only permits scheduled buses to use bus lanes on motorways however Esmonde Road is not classed as a motorway and hence the bus lane along it does not fall under the Transit Bylaw.
The Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 clearly states that “Only cyclists, motorcyclists and buses are allowed to use bus lanes.” and hence as my vehicle is a motorcycle I am permitted to use the bus lane in Esmonde Road. Furthermore within the Questions and Answers section of the Land Transport website on the Road User Rule it specifically states “Can motorcycles use bus lanes? Yes, unless specifically excluded by signs.” There are no signs on the Esmonde Road bus lane specifically excluding motorcycles.
As a consequence of the above I consider that I have not committed an offence by using the bus lane in Esmonde Road."

Worth a try eh.........

:done:

thealmightytaco

29th October 2006, 10:29

Hell yes! Stick it to the man.

bugjuice

29th October 2006, 10:34

fuck yeah man.. wondered who that was heading down that way. I didn't see it, but my gf asked if that was ok, cos she saw either you or someone do the same thing. I said yeah, can't see why not. It isn't a motorway, and I would have probably done the same thing..

Squeak the Rat

29th October 2006, 10:35

What did the correspondance actually say? Your post doesn't sound like you're being charged.....

Jantar

29th October 2006, 10:35

Good on you mate. Its time that the law enforcers in Auckland learned just what the law is.

Grahameeboy

29th October 2006, 10:39

Good on you mate. Its time that the law enforcers in Auckland learned just what the law is.

I just think it is crazy that bus lanes have more than 1 law depending on her covers that section of road.......

iwilde

29th October 2006, 10:42

I always thought we could. I would have gotten a ticket aswell, worth writing a letter bout that one!

Ixion

29th October 2006, 10:46

Blackbird

29th October 2006, 10:51

Whoops Dave - you go for it mate, blue Blackbirds are allowed do anything:rockon: Seriously, that sounds really weird and I'd be surprised if it goes any further. In fact, I'm surprised it's gone that far.

Cheers

Geoff

sAsLEX

29th October 2006, 10:54

Good on you mate. Its time that the law enforcers in Auckland learned just what the law is.
They stuggled under the old law and are still confused with the new one, plus they have just lowered entry standards to the Police.....

I'm assuming it was in Esmonde Rd proper, I'm not clear where the boundary is where Esmonde Rd turns into motorway down at the bottom.

There is a little sign in the grass saying Northern Motorway, as long as you were before that (ie say you were) then you can legally use the lane. In fact unless you are specifically excluded from the bus lane on the motorway one could argue you read the law and followed it to the letter as they are incorrectly signed there as well.......stupid people in power you see.

daveeasey

29th October 2006, 10:54

What did the correspondance actually say? Your post doesn't sound like you're being charged.....
It's only a request to give information about the driver but I'm sure once I respond it'll be a ticket.

sAsLEX

29th October 2006, 10:56

I reckon it's coz they've recently changed the layout at the on-ramp and they want to deter bikes using the bus lane with the imminent arrival of the busway.:whocares:

They could conform to the law and set up appropriate signage........ but hey thats what a logical smart person would do......

daveeasey

29th October 2006, 10:59

We can. The law is quite clear, though a remarkable number of cops don't seem to understand it . Unless Esmonde Rd has come under the control of Transit NZ - ie is now classed as a State Highway or motorway. Improbable.

I'm assuming it was in Esmonde Rd proper, I'm not clear where the boundary is where Esmonde Rd turns into motorway down at the bottom.
Having done a bit of research Esmonde Rd is a bit of an anomoly - some of it comes under NSCC but the bit from Barrys Point Rd to SH1 is Transit's (still not motorway though). I also just found a NSCC bylaw that states the bus lane here is for "ominbuses only" so it's quite likely I'm stuffed - but I'll give it a go anyway.

Hammer

29th October 2006, 11:04

Worth a shot Dave. I'll keep the fingers crossed as otherwise it will be xx bucks not available for your SI trip booze kitty!!!

Jantar

29th October 2006, 11:04

I also just found a NSCC bylaw that states the bus lane here is for "ominbuses only" so it's quite likely I'm stuffed - but I'll give it a go anyway.
Unless there is signage that specificaly mentions motorcycles then you were riding legally. Any sign that says "Busses Only" does not exclude motorcycles.

Ixion

29th October 2006, 11:05

NSCC bylaw is irrelevant. Prior to the recent change (Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004), buslanes were all controlled by councils. When the Road Rule was passed, LTSA took direct control of them . So the Road Rule obsoletes the bylaw (and would anyway, since local body bylaws cannot override statute law).

The only question is whether it is on the Transit controlled bit . And Transit only get away with it in their bylaw (since as noted above, a bylaw cannot override statute), by claiming that the motorway "bus lanes" are not bus lanes at all , but are an emergency stopping shoulder. Which they allow buses to drive on. A very contorted argument.

Disco Dan

29th October 2006, 11:08

Ixion

29th October 2006, 11:17

There are no such things as "unofficial rules". There is simple, the law.
The law explictly says that motorcycles may use buslanes. Unless *specifically* forbidden. In each case.

City councils cannot override statute law. They only have the authority Parliament has granted them.

Transit , in a *very* dodgy interpretation, claim that the motorway "bus lanes" are not actually buslanes at all. they are an emergency stopping shoulder, they claim. And Transit grant an exemption to the general prohibition on driving on such a shoulder, to scheduled bus services only.Thus weaselling their way round the law.

This is a very debatable argument. I hope one day to see it tested in court. But not by me.

Incidentally I also wonder how it comes about that a non elected and non responsible body has authority to make bylaws?

crashe

29th October 2006, 11:26

...now i was told that (for west auckland) motorbikes can use the bus lane on the motorway after 'western springs off ramp' (heading towards town). zip along m-way, get to western springs and keep going along bus lanes, even in the suburbs?

i understood it was a local council 'unoficcial rule' or something similar? as waitakere city council dont alow bikes in bus lanes, but city council does.

Hope this helps...

No, do not ride on the motorway bus lanes at all.... $150 fine

The Auckland city streets where there is BUS LANES is set aside for Buses, pushbikes and Motorbikes. (they used to be the green painted lanes...)

West Auckland (Waitakere) don't have bus lanes at all.

Fatjim

29th October 2006, 11:28

Bit of a problem. The law says lanes marked for buses only are legal roads for bikes. How does that said biker know if the the particular road he is on is exempt by some pissant little rule passed by someone else or not?

Honestly if it was me I'd front up to the court and get a ruling. Fortunately we just have hard shoulders and lane splitting to debte about in Welly.

Ixion

29th October 2006, 11:39

Does anyone actually have a copy of this Transit bylaw?

Jonny Rotten

29th October 2006, 11:52

think ill copy that reply you have writen to them and file it away for future use:yes:

daveeasey

29th October 2006, 12:15

Couple more drops and even you could join :Punk:

Its going to come down to if esmonde road is classed as an onramp and where it is classed as one from. I would suggest going to Transit and asking exactly where the onramp starts. If you got back onto the road before the onramp is classed as starting then you have committed no offence. If you were on it then you have got caught out and will get the horrible $150 fine. I dont think they use the $750 one.
Yeah, the dilema is further complicated by the fact that 2 weeks ago they diverted the on-ramp route so that the bus lane follows the old route but normal traffic have to follow the new one, ie the bus lane is completely separated from normal traffic. It's also worth noting that the bus lane is coned-off which means that once a bike gets on it, you can't easily get off and BINGO -ticket in the post. Entrapment? I think so....

daveeasey

29th October 2006, 12:21

I wouldn't mind but I only use the bus lane because it's damn safer than lane splitting !! (Isn't safety Transit's excuse for prohibiting bikes from motorway bus lanes in the first place?) Oh well I guess it's back to Russian Roulette.

When will those in power realise that bikes are part of the solution not the problem??

Ixion

29th October 2006, 12:24

What is the problem with the cones? They ahve to be very close together for a bike not to fit betwixt them.

sAsLEX

29th October 2006, 13:00

Transit , in a *very* dodgy interpretation, claim that the motorway "bus lanes" are not actually buslanes at all. they are an emergency stopping shoulder, they claim. And Transit grant an exemption to the general prohibition on driving on such a shoulder, to scheduled bus services only.Thus weaselling their way round the law.

Bit of a problem. The law says lanes marked for buses only are legal roads for bikes. How does that said biker know if the the particular road he is on is exempt by some pissant little rule passed by someone else or not?

That is my main annoyance as well, they are signed jsut like every other bus lane that is availabe to bikes, and there is power under the law to quite simply ban bikes with a sign "Motorcycles Excluded", yet they fail to do this they are failing to follow the laws of the land so no one should be able to be charged.

It does not say "THIS IS NOT A BUSLANE BUT AN EMERGENCY STOPPING LANE THAT WE ALLOW BUSES TO USE BY INDICATING IT AS A BUS LANE WHERE CLEARLY IT IS NOT A BUS LANE BUT AN EMERGENCY STOPPING LANE", so how do us as the public know that it is different to every other lane marked "buses Only"

Does anyone actually have a copy of this Transit bylaw?

Its online, do a search.

Couple more drops and even you could join :Punk:

No thanks overqualified now.

What is the problem with the cones? They ahve to be very close together for a bike not to fit betwixt them.

And you can just kick em over.

boomer

29th October 2006, 14:47

all this hassle cos you sat in a bus lane? fukin lane split ya big pansy:yes:

Squeak the Rat

29th October 2006, 14:49

Yeah, the dilema is further complicated by the fact that 2 weeks ago they diverted the on-ramp route so that the bus lane follows the old route but normal traffic have to follow the new one, ie the bus lane is completely separated from normal traffic. It's also worth noting that the bus lane is coned-off which means that once a bike gets on it, you can't easily get off and BINGO -ticket in the post. Entrapment? I think so....

So given Transits dodgy claim that the bus lanes are emergency stopping lanes that they let buses use, why have they diverted the emergency stopping lane away from the road and traffic that would use it?.... Unless it was a bus lane.....

Disco Dan

29th October 2006, 15:02

So given Transits dodgy claim that the bus lanes are emergency stopping lanes that they let buses use, why have they diverted the emergency stopping lane away from the road and traffic that would use it?.... Unless it was a bus lane.....

looks like as soon as it tears away from road, it becomes bus lane?

dam transit!!

...lets all zoom up the bus lane at the same time!! yay!! hehehe ...then go hit the toll booths!! yay!!! ....oh er.. ahem...

daveeasey

29th October 2006, 16:24

all this hassle cos you sat in a bus lane? fukin lane split ya big pansy:yes:
Hey thanx for that - DOH wot was I thinkin !!

lukelin250

29th October 2006, 17:44

well done fight it hard, well written too did your mum write it for you? :Punk:

Bussaman

29th October 2006, 17:51

Its offences like this that warrant bringing back the death penalty.
Its just unnaceptable.

daveeasey

25th November 2006, 11:51

RESULT - I got off :woohoo:

I'm still not sure if I can use the Esmonde Rd Bus lane but wot the 'eck at least they're not stinging me $170 or whatever !

Need to study the signs I guess......

sAsLEX

25th November 2006, 12:13

RESULT - I got off :woohoo:

I'm still not sure if I can use the Esmonde Rd Bus lane but wot the 'eck at least they're not stinging me $170 or whatever !

Need to study the signs I guess......

He is actually incorrect in his statement there.

We are allowed to use bus lanes unless "SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED" , bus lane only does not specifically exclude anyone!

crazybigal

25th November 2006, 12:40

well i had a look in the road code, 2 signs, one with a pic of a bus with the word "lane" under it, can be used by motorbikes and cycles.
one with pic of bus and "only" below. not rocket science here! buses only.!!
I would say thats the only rules, they try to pull the same shit in wellington city, i got stoped by a cop and showed him the sign and told him to read the road code! idiot!!

Unless there is signage that specificaly mentions motorcycles then you were riding legally. Any sign that says "Busses Only" does not exclude motorcycles.

Ixion

25th November 2006, 12:44

Since when was Esmonde Rd part of SH1 ?

sAsLEX

25th November 2006, 12:48

well i had a look in the road code, 2 signs, one with a pic of a bus with the word "lane" under it, can be used by motorbikes and cycles.
one with pic of bus and "only" below. not rocket science here! buses only.!!
I would say thats the only rules, they try to pull the same shit in wellington city, i got stoped by a cop and showed him the sign and told him to read the road code! idiot!!

bus lane means a lane reserved by a marking or sign installed
at the start of the lane and at each point at which the lane
resumes after an intersection for the use of—
(a) buses; and
(b) cycles and motorcycles (unless either or both are specifically
excluded by the sign)

Says there , have put it bold to help , that special wording they are not using on their signs

sAsLEX

25th November 2006, 12:50

Since when was Esmonde Rd part of SH1 ?

Since the new road works have separated the bus lane from the road lanes and they have not signed the change so to confuse the public more with their shite use of signs and their ability to interpret their owns laws...... bunch of retards really .....