Halloween - bah humbug [Archive]

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rogson

31st October 2006, 08:38

inlinefour

31st October 2006, 08:46

How did this weird Irish/US celebration come to be recognised/celebrated in NZ? I can only conclude that we are what the world knows us for - a bunch of sheep. Don't forget to order your turkey for November 23.

Its because NZ seems to have an incentive need to keep some bunch of yanks hapy and believe they can do so by doing whatever they are told? Na I think its more to do with the allmighty dollar and how much of them that can be made by some lame thing from another country. Any kids come along this year they will be moved along pretty quickly. I wonder where I put the super soakers??? :innocent:

Postie

31st October 2006, 08:49

What is Halloween really all about?
Have you ever asked yourself, "Who in the world ever thought of the idea of walking around in weird costumes, trick or treating, and/or putting a carved-out pumpkin in your window?"

You will agree with me that Halloween is really one of the strangest days of the year, is it not? Perhaps you wonder how the celebration of such a day ever got started. In this pamphlet I would like to answer this question for you!

Where and when did Halloween customs originate?

The many customs we have today in relation to Halloween have their origins in the religious practices of the Romans and the Druids, therefore dating back many centuries. The Romans worshiped various gods and on October 31, a special feast was held in honor of Pomona, goddess of the fruit trees. Later, the Druids, an ancient order of Celtic priests in Britain, made this feast an even more extensive celebration by also honoring Samhain, lord of the dead. This was normally done on November 1 and it was therefore decided to conveniently honor both Pomona and Samhain on October 31 and November 1.

These Druids believed that on the night before November 1 (October 31) Samhain called together wicked souls or spirits which had been condemned to live in the bodies of animals during the year which had just transpired. Since they were afraid of these spirits, they chose October 31 as a day to sacrifice to their gods, hoping they would protect them. They really believed that on this day they were surrounded by strange spirits, ghosts, witches, fairies, and elves, who came out to hurt them. In addition to this, they also believed that cats were holy animals, as they considered them to represent people who lived formerly, and as punishment for evil deeds were reincarnated as a cat. All this explains why witches, ghosts, and cats are a part of Halloween today.

The custom of trick-or-treating and the use of "jack-o'-lanterns" comes from Ireland. Hundreds of years ago, Irish farmers went from house to house, begging for food, in the name of their ancient gods, to be used at the village Halloween celebration. They would promise good luck to those who gave them good, and made threats to those who refused to give. They simply told the people, "You treat me, or else I will trick you!"

The apparently harmless lightened pumpkin face or "jack-o'-lantern" actually is an old Irish symbol of damned soul. A man named Jack was supposed to be able unable to enter heaven due to his miserliness, and unable to enter hell because he had played practice jokes on the devil. As a result, he was condemned to wander over the earth with his lantern until judgment day (i.e., the end of the world). The Irish were so afraid that they would receive an identical plight, that they began to hollow out pumpkins and place lighted candles inside to scare away evil spirits from their home.

When did the modern Halloween celebration begin?

During the Middle Ages (about 600 years ago), the Roman Catholic Church at that time, decided to make the change-over from pagan religion to Christianity a bit easier, and therefore allowed the new converts to maintain some of their pagan feasts. It was agreed, however, that from now on they would be celebrated as "Christian" feats. So instead of praying to thwir heathen gods, they would now pray to, and remember the deaths of saints. For this reason the church decided to call November 1 the "Day of All Saints," and the mass to be celebrated on that day "Alhallowmass." In consequence of this, the evening prior to this day was named, "All Hallowed Evening" which subsequently was abbreviated as "Halloween." In spite of this effort to make October 31 a "holy evening," all the old customs continued to be practiced, and made this evening anything BUT a holy evening!

Halloween today.

You would have to agree with me that also today Halloween is most definently not a holy evening!! This annual event is far from the harmless, innocent tradition it is promoted to be. Many dread this "holy" evening as they think what could happen to them, their property, and/or their children! Consistent with its historical roots, this evening is charecterized by fear, and frequently arouses dormant fears in many. The fear generated by this event is symbolic of the fear which plagues so many in our moden, morally bankrupt world. It is a gripping fear for an unknown and very threatening future, a fear caused by a gnawing inner emptiness.

An alternative for October 31.

For many in this land, this day stands for the very opposite of fear!! On this day in 1517, a German monk and professor of theology, Dr. Martin Luther, courageously published the simple, straightforward truth of the Bible. God's Word, which he has rediscovered after a long and intense spiritual struggle. God used the truth of his own Word to give Luther the inner peace he had so desperately longed for. The Bible pointed him the way to God Himself, and when he found God through Jesus Christ, he found this peace which passes all understanding! He himself stated that it was as if he entered Paradise itself.

As a result of his courageous act on October 31, 1517, the Bible came into the hands of the common people again, and many, who as he, were deeply troubled by sin and it’s consequences, found peace with God as well!

It was God himself, Who used Martin Luther to bring His message of deliverance into the hands and hearts of sinners, in order to bring them back to Himself, and give then TRUE peace!! It is therefore with deep gratitude to God that we wish commemorate October 31, as it reminds us of God's gracious and mighty deeds nearly five centuries ago.

It is the Word of God, and its precious truth, rediscover by Martin Luther, which still gives true peace to many today. In the Bible ALONE will you find the ONLY answer to the deep yearning of your heart. ONLY when God becomes your God through Jesus Christ, you will find rest at last and you will answer to the true purpose of human existence, namely, to honor, serve, and enjoy our Creator!!

Is the God of heaven and earth YOUR God? If not, seek Him TODAY, while He still may be found!!

God, manifested in Jesus Christ, invited you Himself in His Word. Turn to the gospel of Matthew and read chapter 11:28,

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden and i will give you rest!"

Those who insist on seeking inner peace without being reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, will have to endure eternal misery without God. God does not desire the eternal misery of man and therefore He also extends this invitation in Ezekial 33:11,

"As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the deaths of the wicked (i.e. Sinner) but that the wicked turn from his way and live! Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways: for why will ye die?"

ManDownUnder

31st October 2006, 08:56

"As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the deaths of the wicked (i.e. Sinner) but that the wicked turn from his way and live! Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways: for why will ye die?"

Zed - you better not let Postie find out about this...

Squeak the Rat

31st October 2006, 08:58

I just want Candy. Mmmmmm, candy.....

ManDownUnder

31st October 2006, 08:58

How did this weird Irish/US celebration come to be recognised/celebrated in NZ? I can only conclude that we are what the world knows us for - a bunch of sheep. Don't forget to order your turkey for November 23.

I'm more concerned with your confusion over Halloween and Christmas.

Bah humbug is the antidote to Christmas cheer.

Halloween cheer's antidote is small boiled lollies... delivered 5 at a time from a slingshot... "Tirck or treat - no no no... it's trick AND treat - EAT SUGAR YOU LITTLE FUCKERS"

MattRSK

31st October 2006, 09:03

<img src="http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/gallery/images/e_dolphins.jpg">

These ones look well speckly!

Colapop

31st October 2006, 09:06

Just have a rather large bible handy at the door. When they come knocking open the door and start shouting "Heathens!! Blasphemous Heathens! Come into the light and He shall show thee the way!!... *and other religious ranting* " That'll cure them....

Ixion

31st October 2006, 09:11

gamgee

31st October 2006, 09:11

Just have a rather large bible handy at the door. When they come knocking open the door and start shouting "Heathens!! Blasphemous Heathens! Come into the klight and He shall show thee the way!!... *and other religious ranting* " That'll cure them....

or, you'll just have them running crying to there parents about how the angry man with the noisey bike down the street was yelling nonsense at them... again...

Indiana_Jones

31st October 2006, 09:12

I normally just leave my house lol

-Indy

Pixie

31st October 2006, 09:25

Joni

31st October 2006, 09:30

So seriously - do I need to buy some lollies for kiddies tonight? Or would it just be waste of time? Do kids do this in NZ? When I was in AKL there were a few chubby children looking for lollies... but nothing serious... what about Chch?

As some of you say... just another Amercian tradition being forced on others :mellow: But Im such a softie I dont have the heart to say I dont have any for ya...

Str8 Jacket

31st October 2006, 09:33

Just have a rather large bible handy at the door. When they come knocking open the door and start shouting "Heathens!! Blasphemous Heathens! Come into the klight and He shall show thee the way!!... *and other religious ranting* " That'll cure them....

hehe, now I love that idea! I doubt I'll get any kids knocking but if I do im gonna make them wish that they'd never knocked on the "Crazy cat-womans" door!

Postie

31st October 2006, 09:36

I find a big dog helps, one that sounds like its going to break through solid oak doors with its snarl, when the doorbell rings, the dog can answer it. 2 birds with one stone, you feed the dog and get rid of pesky chubby's

bobsmith

31st October 2006, 10:01

The solution is simple print the following out and stick it somewhere near the front of your property and your doorstep

Big Dave

31st October 2006, 10:05

Thank you postie - I didn't know why I ignore that shit - now I do.
Just like Valentines day.

MattRSK

31st October 2006, 10:06

The solution is simple print the following out and stick it somewhere near the front of your property and your doorstep

A white piece of paper?

Swoop

31st October 2006, 10:08

With the dietary requirements of kiwi kids nowadays, fruit would be a much better serving suggestion.

AND... where is OSH during all of this??? What happens if you provide a sugary morsel to a young person, and they have an allergic reaction to the item? Liability laws might just prevent this.:bye:

MattRSK

31st October 2006, 10:09

Swoop

31st October 2006, 10:10

A white piece of paper?

I thought it was the national flag of france... they fly it at all their battles....:shifty: :whistle: :whistle:

silverado

31st October 2006, 10:13

I once gave out bits of chesse wrapped in foil. Then I got a fence and a dog.

Try and answer the door in your undie and parents will never send the kids back.

WRT

31st October 2006, 12:21

Just give them any of your old silver coins that you forgot to cash in before close of business today . . .

Indiana_Jones

31st October 2006, 12:53

"Smeg off"

lol

-Indy

dawnrazor

31st October 2006, 18:30

Some goblins just knocked on the door...I assume its halloweeen...and guess what...I had nothing to give the little street urchins...and they didn't take EFTPOS

Hope no more turn up...I don't like being nasty to kids....but the more I drink...well you know how that goes:gob:

Darkman

31st October 2006, 18:34

same her..forgot too, so i'm not opening the door anymore unless they would take broken bike parts for treats!

u4ea

31st October 2006, 18:38

had the same problem last year.........i said ive got a mean trick...........".you get nothing!!!"the poor little cherub at the back started crying!!!!!!!:dodge:

o well...........they shouldnt knock on a witches door..............:innocent:

dawnrazor

31st October 2006, 18:39

imagine that...here you are little girl have a cam belt

Skyryder

31st October 2006, 18:52

dawnrazor

31st October 2006, 19:01

I was a Guy Fawks kid my self. We are a dying breed.

Skyryder

hmmm pagan festival V papist plot

Macktheknife

31st October 2006, 19:23

No problem people, the offer is "trick or treat" right....
So say "ok, trick!" and see what happens.
snigger!

The Pastor

31st October 2006, 19:25

My trick is to sit in the bushes near the door with a house ahahahaha, poilce said i wasnt alowed to egg them anymore.

Waylander

31st October 2006, 19:27

My trick is to sit in the bushes near the door with a house ahahahaha, poilce said i wasnt alowed to egg them anymore.
Anyone make any sense out of that?

The Pastor

31st October 2006, 19:33

hose not house lol

sunhuntin

31st October 2006, 20:01

yep...weve had a couple. i told off the two i got for not even attempting to dress up.
saw some wicked costumes tonight on the way home...very well done. was gonna get a mask to wear under the helmet, but figured the cops wouldnt be too impressed. plus i wasnt sure how much vision id lose.

Drum

31st October 2006, 20:06

It's not Halloween. It's just the side effects of the drugs theyre taking these days. I blame the labour government.

Grahameeboy

31st October 2006, 20:09

Yep...about 8 trippers at my door.....

Oakie

31st October 2006, 20:14

I just lock the gates and watch the witches and goblins walk on by....
Last year I also left the dog out the front but he's dead now so as appropriate as it would be to have him out there now, I just couldn't be bothered digging him up.

Oakie

31st October 2006, 20:17

Some goblins just knocked on the door...I assume its halloweeen...and guess what...I had nothing to give the little street urchins...and they didn't take EFTPOS:

No. It's the Labour Party collecting to pay back their illegal election spending.

jrandom

31st October 2006, 20:17

Living halfway to the middle of nowhere on SH16 really helps with avoiding the wee brats on October 31st.

I've been blissfully unbothered this evening.

Time fer 'nutha drink [hic]

Colapop

31st October 2006, 20:35

Yep...about 8 trippers at my door.....
Shit I thought I read 8 strippers!! LOL! Was considering moving to Aucks....

Mental Trousers

31st October 2006, 21:24

Thankfully the little buggers will never find the stairs to our place. I do wish people wouldn't customs just because they do it over there so we should do it here ....

Mom

31st October 2006, 22:20

A white piece of paper?

At least it better than we did this year...........a blank piece of paper has to be better than ignoring the door bell????????

WarlockNZ

31st October 2006, 22:34

No. It's the Labour Party collecting to pay back their illegal election spending.

Not illegal anymore, they passed leglislation to make the theft legal...

Guess i'm just lucky to live in the country, no one knocks on my door for candy. well ... some people do ... but they are all of legal age i tell you!

Ghost Lemur

31st October 2006, 22:41

My response to the door is...

"WIKIPEDIA TELLS ME HELLOWEEN IS NOT FOLLOWED IN NZ. SO FUCK OFF"

ZeroIndex

31st October 2006, 22:52

Ixion

31st October 2006, 23:06

,,. was gonna get a mask to wear under the helmet, but figured the cops wouldnt be too impressed. .

Very wise. Have you seen Mr Scumdog's avatar? You could have gotten done for impersonating a police officer.

scumdog

31st October 2006, 23:10

Very wise. Have you seen Mr Scumdog's avatar? You could have gotten done for impersonating a police officer.

True, true Mr Ixion, immitation may be the sincerist form of flattery but I have my standards to uphold and do not need lacksadaisical copy-cats ruining my image.:innocent:

Ixion

31st October 2006, 23:13

Wheest. Dinna fash y'sel w' sich. Ye should be busy putting knobblies on that thing of thine. I';m still looking for an answer to that question.

jazbug5

1st November 2006, 07:26

It was once an English custom also. The eve of November 1st has been a time of celebration (and fear) for thousands of years, being abandoned in England (and Scotland) only in comparatively recent times.

Sorry, not where I'm from. It was the biggest night of the year when I was growing up, rivalled only by Christmas Eve; we hollowed out turnips (neep lanterns), and took a lot of pride in making our own costumes and coming up with imaginative designs for the aforementioned neep lanterns. We called it 'guising', and used to come up with plays, jokes, and songs, putting on a little show at each house we visited. Meanwhile the adults had a party and got really battered.

Our happy little feral band would rock up in the wee hours of the morning, pumped full of sugar and manic glee, pockets solid with change.

The American, petulant 'gimme something for nothing or I'll throw stuff at you' version is pretty anaemic by comparison, IMHO.

sunhuntin

1st November 2006, 11:38

True, true Mr Ixion, immitation may be the sincerist form of flattery but I have my standards to uphold and do not need lacksadaisical copy-cats ruining my image.:innocent:

lmfao....good point, ixion. lol

scum...would that have been legal or would have likely been ticketed? it would have been worn while on the road. i do have a lower-face mask here somewhere from canada...should have worn that i guess....doesnt stuff with vision.

scumdog

1st November 2006, 11:44

lmfao....good point, ixion. lol

scum...would that have been legal or would have likely been ticketed? it would have been worn while on the road. i do have a lower-face mask here somewhere from canada...should have worn that i guess....doesnt stuff with vision.

Hmm, you would probably be o.k. re the ticket thing.

But my concern would be the mask getting blown over your eyes while you were riding - they're sort of designed for the amount of air going past at walking speed, not 80kph plus.

inlinefour

1st November 2006, 11:47

The best response to "Trick or treat" (which i used tonight)
"Trick eh? can you do backflips?" followed by closing the door and returning to playing on my computer :p

Next year I'm planning on getting someone to open the door while I fling a bucket of water all over those silly little kids.. haha, I must remember to video it :D I guess shouting trick or treat as you open the door makes it more 'legit' :p

Got some dropkicks for neighbours up the road, so called professionals. Came home from work for my dinner break and there are two young boys dripping wet and crying. From what I could gather some farktard threw a bucket of cold water over these two 7 & 8 year olds thinking it was funning. Well guess what, it effing wasn't. Spend part of my break getting towels and phoning their parents. I'm seriosly thinking that some peoples' brains are poked. If it was my kid, I'd be hopping mad and wanting to sort the tards out. So ZeroIndex, are you the same sort of tard as these arsewipes? I thought you was an OK sort of lad, am I wrong? :angry:

James Deuce

1st November 2006, 11:49

I did a nice subtle trick.

I had one visit. They got the frozen Moro I put in the freezer on Sunday.

"See, I really did mean wait until you get home."

sunhuntin

1st November 2006, 12:29

Hmm, you would probably be o.k. re the ticket thing.

But my concern would be the mask getting blown over your eyes while you were riding - they're sort of designed for the amount of air going past at walking speed, not 80kph plus.

cheers for that. will go have a look at what warehouse have got left and get ready for next year. ill tighten the elastic, so its got little chance of moving.

Pillick

1st November 2006, 12:33

I was randomly tricked last night, still not really clear on who was responsible. I think I was the victim of a random, unprovoked attack.

Anyway, as I headed out to my car last night a bunch of teenage girls were clambering over the fence giggling. They disappeared without me recognising anyone and I was left thinking "random" *mental shrug*

So I drove off, and had just got onto Cobham Drive (no stop zone) when this sickly sweet, vomity smell started invading the car. The little brats put something in my vents. Nicely done, but I thought they were supposed to ask for a treat first?

Oh, cool cartoon below.

u4ea

1st November 2006, 12:51

I was a Guy Fawks kid my self. We are a dying breed.

Skyryder

hell yes!!i used to win the best guy fawk to burn on the bonfire at a local country shindig.,used all my old clothes that didnt fit anymore,mums stockings stuffed with newspaer for his legs........bred anarchists weren"t we ........

jrandom

1st November 2006, 13:23

the best guy fawk... bred anarchists weren"t we...

Not if you don't know how to spell the dude's name, you weren't.

'Fawkes' is not a plural.

If your mum's still around, give her a call sometime and point out that having a baby born cognitively impaired is no excuse for subsequently dropping it on its head.

Pillick

1st November 2006, 13:25

pfft, you expect an anarchist to obey the rules of commonly accepted spelling? Fawk off

jrandom

1st November 2006, 13:34

pfft, you expect an anarchist to obey the rules of commonly accepted spelling?

Yes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist).

Fawk off

I would have blung you if you'd had the wit to just use this line on its own.

u4ea

1st November 2006, 13:39

Not if you don't know how to spell the dude's name, you weren't.

'Fawkes' is not a plural.

If your mum's still around, give her a call sometime and point out that having a baby born cognitively impaired is no excuse for subsequently dropping it on its head.

whatever.........................

jrandom

1st November 2006, 13:42

whatever.........................

Did you type that post with the little head-wiggle and talk-to-the-hand gesture, and the second and third syllables accentuated and elongated?

You gotta do the moves. Please tell me you did the moves.

mstriumph

1st November 2006, 13:47

u4ea

1st November 2006, 13:48

ffs..fish...get over yourself!!!!!!!!

jrandom

1st November 2006, 13:49

must be the weather

Mmm, no. I'm just a horrid person, really.

jrandom

1st November 2006, 13:51

ffs..fish...get over yourself!!!!!!!!

Don't want to play?

OK, OK. Nothing to see here, move along...

Pillick

1st November 2006, 13:57

I would have blung you if you'd had the wit to just use this line on its own.

I know, I was so proud of that one. I even swelled a little.

mstriumph

1st November 2006, 13:59

Mmm, no. I'm just a horrid person, really.

come come now

over-precise... mebbe, confrontational... perhaps, downright scratchy on occassion... definately

but horrid?? ....i find that very hard to believe :laugh:

jrandom

1st November 2006, 14:09

horrid?? ....i find that very hard to believe :laugh:

u4ea doesn't like me, and that's screwing with my self-image.

I just... I just want to be loved.

:crybaby:

mstriumph

1st November 2006, 14:12

buy a puppy mebbe?? :yes:

jrandom

1st November 2006, 14:13

buy a puppy mebbe?? :yes:

Awww.

Will you be my puppy?

Pillick

1st November 2006, 14:17

bling me that bling you almost blunged and I will. I'm all about the bling.

Virago

1st November 2006, 19:36

There was a time when I used to view the current Halloween culture as yet more creeping Americanism. But then I had kids..........

At the end of the day, it's a community thing. What's wrong with one day a year when the kids in the community can dress up in fancy dress, and parade around the neighbourhood, with perhaps the occasional reward of a lolly or two? Where's the harm in it?

With today's "Fuck you" culture, the majority of residents have no interest in their local community, and hate being forced to participate in community contact.

Jeez, these are the neighbour's kids. It's not going to kill you to be nice to them.

Forget the arguments about pagan rituals. It's just a bit of harmless fun for the kids.

Just as relevent in NZ as Guy Fawkes - and a damn site less harmful.

(But then again fireworks fit in more with the "fuck you" community culture.....)

James Deuce

1st November 2006, 19:43

Virago

1st November 2006, 20:03

Local community is a load of crap. Try participating in a local "community" with a kid who's not quite right.

Local "community" is a brilliant way for people to band together and display their contempt for anything out of the norm.

A sad outlook on life Jim, but perhaps a sign of the times.

There's always been a kid around who's "not quite right". But a seige mentality is not the answer.

We had to go out last night before the trick-or-treating got well underway. But we enjoyed immensely the early birds who came to our door.

A couple of years ago I rigged a "special" doorbell for them. A 120 decibel siren. The kids loved it.:woohoo:

If somehow I'm "banding together and displaying contempt", then my apologies to those affected.

James Deuce

1st November 2006, 20:07

Never suggested you were, just saying that there is no returning from where we've gone. This site is about the only community I've found for a while.

Seige mentality? No, just the world is a lot nastier than it was 30, 50, 70 years ago.

Virago

1st November 2006, 20:14

......Seige mentality? No, just the world is a lot nastier than it was 30, 50, 70 years ago.

Couldn't agree more. There was a time when children could approach their neighbours and talk to them......

Nah, I just decided that the Halloween culture couldn't be beaten, so I've accepted it. And we get a real kick out of it now.

Must be time to move south Jim. We actually speak to each other down here!

James Deuce

1st November 2006, 20:28

Oh they speak to us alright.

I've wanted to live in the Sth Is. for years. Just need to find the right job and I'm off.

jrandom

1st November 2006, 21:13

I've wanted to live in the Sth Is. for years...

Whenever I look, they's plenty jobs going in Chch. I bet you're not actively bugging recruitment agents for a spot, are you, eh? Eh? Go on, put some backbone into it and pick up that phone. You know you'd be settled down there within six months. Probably with a salary increase.

Me, I can't do the Chch thing; I married an asthmatic. Anyway, I like Orcland. I like my house. I like the northwest coast of the NI, and the goats and deer running around the Kaipara just waiting to be efficiently mowed down and roasted with olive oil, rosemary and garlic.

Dunno why anyone would want to live any further south.

mstriumph

2nd November 2006, 12:31

...........I've wanted to live in the Sth Is. for years. Just need to find the right job and I'm off.

at the risk of being hokey .... if you REALLY wanted that, you'd be out there making it happen? :yes:

- i've always wanted to VISIT the South Island ....... somewhere to bunk whilst down there would be GREAT !! :innocent:

mstriumph

2nd November 2006, 12:32

bling me that bling you almost blunged and I will. I'm all about the bling.

you HARLOT you!!!!! :shit:

James Deuce

2nd November 2006, 12:37

at the risk of being hokey .... if you REALLY wanted that, you'd be out there making it happen? :yes:

- i've always wanted to VISIT the South Island ....... somewhere to bunk whilst down there would be GREAT !! :innocent:

Just started looking today. Interesting concept. There can't be anyone left down there because there are everything from sit at your desk picking your nose type jobs, to we'd like someone to annoy Bill Gates regularly. No seriously. Here's the next year's 1st class plane tickets.

mstriumph

2nd November 2006, 12:41

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Jim2 again.

:sunny:

:rockon:

Paul in NZ

2nd November 2006, 12:47

scumdog

2nd November 2006, 14:37

Just started looking today. Interesting concept. There can't be anyone left down there because there are everything from sit at your desk picking your nose type jobs, to we'd like someone to annoy Bill Gates regularly. No seriously. Here's the next year's 1st class plane tickets.

Not sure what the above really means, you had better learn Sarfisland Speak before you move down here, we don't cotton onto that Norfeyeland Lingo.

If you get down here we'll have a peter'n'plate night at my mates crib nestled in the bracken eh?

(BTW If you move further south than Oamaru you had better remember to add the letter 'r' to every word - sometimes twice - to be understood)

Skyryder

2nd November 2006, 20:09

Not sure what the above really means, you had better learn Sarfisland Speak before you move down here, we don't cotton onto that Norfeyeland Lingo.

If you get down here we'll have a peter'n'plate night at my mates crib nestled in the bracken eh?

(BTW If you move further south than Oamaru you had better remember to add the letter 'r' to every word - sometimes twice - to be understood)

And the love of that tartan music is a must.

Skyryder

Skyryder

2nd November 2006, 22:35

It was once an English custom also. The eve of November 1st has been a time of celebration (and fear) for thousands of years, being abandoned in England (and Scotland) only in comparatively recent times.

Originally the Pagan New Year (Samhain), and still celebrated as such by Pagans, it was appropriated by the early Christian church (as much else) and become All Hallows Eve, when the souls of the dead were released for an evening to walk again in this world. And on that evening, prayers may succeed in releasing the soul in Purgatory to eternal rest.

Rightfully a time of dread, and prayer, and reflection on our own mortality, I know not how it became a candy-fest and mockery.

With the rise of the enlightened society, and the drift from the countryside to the factories of the industrial revolution, the myths and superstitions that plagued the peasent population slowly receeded from the urban psych. But it was never completely forgotton. This distant memory became enmeshed in the American tradition due to the Scots, Irish, Welsh and other European immigrants that made up it's population that, had since from Pagan times, followed the tradition of Haloween. The correct and earlier spelling is Hallowe'en a shortened version of All-hallow-even and is the eveing before All Hallows Day. This became All Saints Day.

The candy associated with Halloween is in part due to the National Candy Corn Day. This is the day before Halloween, October 30th. The pumpkin that is associated with Halloween is symboloc for the end of summer and is now the icon for Halloween. The pumpkin and associated family of plants became the one of the staples of colonial America.

Creatures associated with Halloween are night roamers. Witches, bats, owls zombies etc.

It is one of the wonders of the American way that a country so steeped in the Christian tradition can turn what is essentialy religouse day into one of 'candy fest and mockery.'

mstriumph

3rd November 2006, 15:11

..............................
Rightfully a time of dread, and prayer, and reflection on our own mortality, I know not how it became a candy-fest and mockery.

putting a veneer of civilization over the old way doesn't obliterate it - and people often mock in company or in sunlight at what rightly chills them alone and at dusk

scratch most new religions [yep - she called christianity a 'new' religion :shit: ] and there's a pagan lurking underneath ........... aware and trembling

James Deuce

3rd November 2006, 15:23

Don't forget that All Hallows Eve and it's preceding pagan celebrations marked the Northern Hemisphere's transition from Autumn to Winter. If you hadn't put enough food away for your family to survive for 3 months, you died.

I think that is behind the somewhat sinister implications of this particular celebration.

moko

14th November 2006, 00:25

You`re right Jim,Easter and Christmas were famously swiped as well,both still riddled with remnents of old Pagan customs,Easter`s even named after a European Goddess,and eggs and the Easter Bunny,actually a Hare at the start were both fertility symbols and it was all about fertility and the start of Spring in Europe way before Christianity`s "2 planks and Jew"logo was ever copyrighted.Likewise Christmas,both the tree and mistletoe are age old Pagan symbols and if you want to really go into it take a look at this little lot,interesting if you look beyond the manic ranting and skip to the "Odin as Santa" bit,quite a commonly held view in Europe,where Paganism is making quite a comeback incidentally.
http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/santa.html

Skyryder

14th November 2006, 12:37

.
http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/santa.html

Classic example of Christmas humbug from the joyless fraternity. Read about half of this bollocks and thought how glad I'm not related to this sourpuss.

Apart from the bullshit that Santa Clause and St Nick are the devil etc this indavidual clearly misses the point of the Christmas tradition not only in the pagan celebration of Yuletide but also the Christian traditon first estabished by King Wenceslas. The giving of gifts at Christmas is in line with that of the Thee Wise Men and the Feast of Stephan. This was celebrated on December the 26. Wenceslas was noted for his piety and for his welfare to to the poor. Combined with the gifts of the Wise Men and Wenceslas's feeding the poor many believe that this king is the true spirit of of the modern Santa Clause at Christmas. I tend to agree.

Skyryder

Ixion

14th November 2006, 16:10

I just like Christmas cos you can start getting pissed at midday and nobody complains

moko

16th November 2006, 14:23

My point of view as well Ixion,actually I dont get drunk as a rule but Christmas mto me is whatever you want it to be.Having said that Christians claiming everything for themselves does hack me off big-style,if they hadn`t burnt,maimed and killed people over the years to get their point across then I`d say good luck to them.Personally I find the meanings and roots of things interesting and therefore the Norse Santa connections likewise.As Skyrider say the author of that webpage was a killjoy,more than a little fanatical as well but I found it interesting reading amongst the "you`re all going to burn in hell bits",shit,I knew that was my fate years ago if my Atheism was on the slightest off-chance wrong,didn`t particularly worry me then or now.