Oil, What Oil ?????

[grego]

The Manufacturers recommended oil for my bike is:

API SE,SF or SG

API SH,SJ or SL with JASO MA

Viscosity SAE 10W - 40

What f*%+# does it mean ?

All I realy would like to know is, can I replace the original mineral oil with syntetic oil, or not ???

Highly educated opinions are sought here................
Thank you very much (in the voice kind a like Elvis used to say it):done:

[Milky]

(edit) I just searched the forums and found the answers I needed. Looks like I will try some diesel oil next change. Have a look at these:
http://oilanalysis.com/message_boards/by_category.asp?Category=Car%20and%20Truck%20Lubri cation
http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/oilreport.html
Also the attached word doc (/edit)

From what little I (think I) know, the viscosity is given for different temperatures, one the cold oil viscosity, the other high temp viscosity (~0 and 100C). In older bikes especially I would hesitate to replace mineral with synthetic for fear of it being incompatible with the clutch plates. Them friction modifiers and extra slippery things can be nasty...

[lukelin250]

yeah id love to hear what the best oil is for my bike any advice?

[Forest]

Are you riding a new bike?

Be careful if you are considering switching the oil type - if you use a non-manufacturer approved oil then you may void the bike's warranty.

[merv]

After the initial running in period if you are reasonable tight arse like me you'll use semi-synthetic coz its cheaper than full synthetic. I use exclusively Castrol GPS semi-syn in our bikes and you can buy it at Super Cheap or Repco if they are closer to you than a bike shop. This is high grade m/c oil not car oil so good for wet clutches and costs about $50 for 4 litres these days.

[Mr. Peanut]

AMSOIL FTW

http://www.jdmlubricants.co.nz/motorcycle-oils-xidg12556.html

[Flyingpony]

After my bike was broken in, I switched from mineral to semi-synthetic for one change and been on fully-synthetic since.

In fact, one interesting characteristic I noticed is that the extra fuel saved by running fully-synthetic oil approximately covered the price difference between fully-synthetic and semil-synthetic :woohoo:
Mind you, it all depends on your bike and riding style, so YMMV. My bikes fuel economy improved by 25% due to switching to full-synthetic :mellow:

I've no idea about all those ABC numbers you noted. I simply looked at the SAE rating i.e. 10w-40 and went from there. You could go thinner with the winter rate (smaller number) but there needs to be caution as your bikes oil pump might not be able to pick up enough oil since it's thinner.

Oil SAE ratings go something like, the 10w stands for winter weight with value 10 meaning how thin it is when cold and the other is its high temp ability.

Edit: There are also handling differences by running fully-synthetic. Some people would say the engine is quieter but I can't tell any obvious difference, however, gearing shifting is slightly lighter and smoother.

[Pixie]

10W is the cold viscosity,40 is the vicosity at the oils' operating temperature.

The API prefix (SG SH etc ) is how up to date the specs are.bikes shouldn't be lubricated with any oil higher than SJ.

[Motu]

To add to the above - JASO...Japanese Automotive Standards Organisation.Seeing JASO on oil usually means it's a motorcycle approved oil,but don't count on it.I've heard very very few reports of clutch slippage from car oils,90% of the time they have a clutch problem not an oil problem.Particually in those cases where they say X brand caused my clutch to slip,then I changed to Y brand and it stopped.That is a marginal clutch.....if the plates were contaminated with slippery goop they would have to be stripped and cleaned with a solvent,just changing the oil doesn't clear contaminated plates.

Diesel rated oils (HDEO) have an additive package close to motorcycle requirements,without the motorcycle price and unavailability.They don't use friction modifiers as they don't have to pass fuel economy tests,and for added security look for Allison approval.Allison make auto transmissions for trucks,they have multiplate clutch packs just like a motorcycle,so no friction modifiers are permitted.

[Ixion]

Delo diesel grade oil from SuperCheap is a good one for most bikes.

[The Stranger]

Shit, not this can of worms again.
Dinosaur 10w40 is made from a 10 weight oil and uses polymers which basically expand as they heat. As the oil breaks down it eventually winds up at it's base weight.

Synthetic oils don't do this, they maintain their rating much longer.

If you are going to use a dino oil think about getting the highest base weight acceptable for the temperature range.

So if the manual says 15w40 is acceptable for the ambient summer temperatures, using that will both slow the break down process and give better service near the end of life of the oil.

The trade off is that it takes longer to get round a cold motor.

Another consideration if the weight at the top end. Basically the thinner the oil when hot, the more power you will have and the shorter the life of the motor.

A 10w weight oil is so rated because it takes about 10 seconds for a given amount to pass a given aperture at 0 degrees. a 15w weight oil takes about 15 seconds to pass the same amount through the same aperture at 0 degrees.

Dino oil is a compromise, you don't get good cold flow (important) and consistent performance at high temperature over the life of the oil as the polymers break down.

If you use a synthetic you can get say 0w40 which allows very fast cold flow and a fairly consistent viscosity over a long period when hot.

So, in short.
Using Synthetic (once run in) is good.
If you are going to use dino oil select the one with the lowest spread between the cold (W or Winter) and hot rating as your manual says is acceptable. Basically the lower the spread the less polymers to break down and the more consistent the performance of the oil.

[Grinner]

What do the letters mean?
In 1970 the American Petroleum Institute (API) in association with American Society for Testing and Materials ( ASTM ), Society of Automotive Engineers ( SAB ) and Engine Manufacturers Association ( EMA ) established the API Engine Service Classification System.
This system is based on engine tests which define the levels of performance required by various oils. There are several clases 'C' or 'Commercial' for diesel engines and the one we are interested in 'S' or 'Service' for gasoline engines.
It is an open ended system with new classifications added on every few years.
SA, SB, SC 1964, SD 1968, SE 1972, SF 1981, SG 1989, SH 1994, SI not used, SJ 1997 etc ( I am not to sure where they have gotten upto )
As an example API SG oils can be used where API SF oils are recomended because each new itterative provides extra protection than the previous.

If your bike manufacturer recomends SI oils then only use SI or above. It is the SINGLE MOST IMPOTANT thing when deciding what oil to use in your bike.

Changing to Synthetic ?
Oils are made up of base stock and additives. ( 10 to 30 % ) Generally, the reference to synthetic oil for an engine, means a lubricant is formulated with a polyalphaolefin (PAO) base oil.

However, because the PAO base oil does not dissolve additives effectively, it is usually formulated with an ester co-base (usually di-ester and/or polyol ester). The additives are soluble with the ester and the ester is soluble with the PAO.

Likewise, the PAO tends to cause seal shrinkage and the ester causes seal swelling, so the effects are offset when both base oils are present.

It is the ester that can cause problems when one changes from mineral to synthetic. Ester base oil used alongside PAO base oil in oils has excellent natural detergency. In other words, it will clean up varnish on component surfaces as a result of thermal and oxidative degradation of the lubricant. When one switches from a typical mineral-based engine oil to a typical synthetic-based oil, the varnish layer will be removed by the ester in the synthetic oil and become suspended.

This suspended material can rapidly clog filters and can block oil flow passageways and lead to component starvation.

If your machine has been operating fine using mineral oil don't change. If you do swap over to a synthetic try to clean the system before making the change.

Viscosity Grades?
Multi grade oils have 2 numbers ie 15w 40.
The 15w refers to how easily the oil will flow at low temperatures, the w means winter, and the 40 refers to how it flows at higher temperature.
If you live somewhere cold ie central North island or lower South island you would be advised to buy oil with a lower first number ie 0w or 5w especially over the winter months, to help reduce wear at start up. Some people have been complaining about stalling when selecting the first gear of the day. This is due to just that, a 15w oil at zero degrees C may very well be as thick as treckle, flowing nowhere and protecting nothing till it warms up.

Since I am in an advising mood, I would suggest you stick with mineral oil ( unless you are racing/ thashing your machine regularly) and ALWAYS change the filter when you change the oil.

Have you ever thought 'how good is my filter'?

Cheers