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DonaldH
3rd November 2006, 08:18
Anyone know where I might get a re-conditioned engine for a Vespa?

ManDownUnder
3rd November 2006, 08:22
I thought that's what the shipped with?? (p/t - sorry).

But to answer your question - errrr no. Try a wreckers. They migt be able to find one out of a trashed vespa?

DonaldH
3rd November 2006, 08:32
Breakers any recommendations?

Paul in NZ
3rd November 2006, 08:46
There are a few different models of vespa around and they have been popular since the 50's so you might just need to be a little more exact.

The Wop
3rd November 2006, 15:05
Since 1946 Vespa has made a number of scooters. It depends on what sort of engine you want and for what scooter. They are largely split into largeframe (like the GS, PX, etc) and smallframe (SS90, SS50, ET3, etc). there are also the new auto engines.

I tried to get an ET3 motor for a smallframe a while back and there were none available globally! These engines are much sought after and they cost a mint!

You will be able to get 150cc PX engines (made by LML in India) and PX 200 engines. I am pretty sure that you can pick up engines off the modern autos too.

As for wreckers, no chance! Try your local scooter shop. If in Auckland, try Scooter-E-Motion (highly recommended) or Scooterworld.

Good luck!

DonaldH
6th November 2006, 21:37
Since 1946 Vespa has made a number of scooters. It depends on what sort of engine you want and for what scooter. They are largely split into largeframe (like the GS, PX, etc) and smallframe (SS90, SS50, ET3, etc). there are also the new auto engines.

I tried to get an ET3 motor for a smallframe a while back and there were none available globally! These engines are much sought after and they cost a mint!

You will be able to get 150cc PX engines (made by LML in India) and PX 200 engines. I am pretty sure that you can pick up engines off the modern autos too.

As for wreckers, no chance! Try your local scooter shop. If in Auckland, try Scooter-E-Motion (highly recommended) or Scooterworld.

Good luck!
Thx,

It is PX200. I will try Scooter-E-Motion (highly recommended) or Scooterworld.

MisterD
7th November 2006, 10:15
What's up with the engine you have? If it's seized or summat, you could probably just replace the top end with a nice 210 Malossi kit.....

DonaldH
7th November 2006, 12:35
What's up with the engine you have? If it's seized or summat, you could probably just replace the top end with a nice 210 Malossi kit.....
Good idea where would I get one and a rough cost?

texmo
7th November 2006, 13:11
Good idea where would I get one and a rough cost?

scooter world get them in, your looking at about $500 installed I think.

MisterD
7th November 2006, 14:28
scooter world get them in, your looking at about $500 installed I think.

Kev's got one on tardeme at the moment...

link (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Engine-drive-train/auction-76721893.htm)

Seeing as crate PoX motors are about two grand that leaves you plenty for a big carb and a good pipe.

texmo
7th November 2006, 15:31
Seeing as crate PoX motors are about two grand that leaves you plenty for a big carb and a good pipe.

ya have to find oen first though aye?

MisterD
7th November 2006, 16:31
ya have to find oen first though aye?

True, the reedvalve 150cc Belladonna motors are $1500 odd aren't they?

:whocares: Hanging an engine beside the rear wheel has got to be the silliest idea since F.Porsche put one in the boot of his cage by mistake.

texmo
7th November 2006, 16:35
True, the reedvalve 150cc Belladonna motors are $1500 odd aren't they?

:whocares: Hanging an engine beside the rear wheel has got to be the silliest idea since F.Porsche put one in the boot of his cage by mistake.

Or the most economical, now what do we do with all these left over starter motors from the war, I know lets make scooter vs. What are we gonna do with all this scaffolding?

Flatcap
7th November 2006, 18:39
True, the reedvalve 150cc Belladonna motors are $1500 odd aren't they?

:whocares: Hanging an engine beside the rear wheel has got to be the silliest idea since F.Porsche put one in the boot of his cage by mistake.

You just gotta get the wife to sit side-saddle - that evens up the handling

I also recommend the Bella engine for around $1500

MisterD
7th November 2006, 19:07
Or the most economical, now what do we do with all these left over starter motors from the war, I know lets make scooter vs. What are we gonna do with all this scaffolding?

Welcome to Googie's scooter myths...what about bubble cars being left-over fighter canopies?

Innocenti were steel tube manufacturers, and Piaggio an aeroplane manufacturer....pity Supermarine didn't follow up the Spitfire with a scooter really...

MisterD
7th November 2006, 19:10
You just gotta get the wife to sit side-saddle - that evens up the handling


And how many times has Mrs Fairlie been persuaded onto the back of your scoot?

For sale, one helmet, size small, suit occasional female scooter passenger. Hardly used.

Flatcap
7th November 2006, 19:11
Welcome to Googie's scooter myths...what about bubble cars being left-over fighter canopies?

Innocenti were steel tube manufacturers, and Piaggio an aeroplane manufacturer....pity Supermarine didn't follow up the Spitfire with a scooter really...

...isn't that the Triumph Tigress...?

Flatcap
7th November 2006, 19:14
And how many times has Mrs Fairlie been persuaded onto the back of your scoot?

For sale, one helmet, size small, suit occasional female scooter passenger. Hardly used.

This Saturday past, in fact, and she enjoyed it....although shooting the gap was kept to a minimum....

Only happens when the weather is WARM

texmo
7th November 2006, 19:57
Welcome to Googie's scooter myths...what about bubble cars being left-over fighter canopies?

Innocenti were steel tube manufacturers, and Piaggio an aeroplane manufacturer....pity Supermarine didn't follow up the Spitfire with a scooter really...

they aint no myths gov..
Innocenti made scaffolding, they used this to make the frame of the lambretta, ever looked at a lambretta frame?
And vespas motors were starter motors for planes.
tis true look it up.

The Wop
8th November 2006, 07:35
But the fact remains that both companies were highly innovative engineering firms who managed to produce mass transportation in a severely depressed economy at a minimum of cost. They had a large influence in rebuilding the Italian economy post WWII using a rather simple idea.

Economics 101, but then again, that will only be understood by those who went to Uni....

Flatcap
8th November 2006, 07:40
And vespas motors were starter motors for planes.
tis true look it up.

Brilliant! You mean to say I ride a piece of a fighter/bomber to work each day?

Wucked

MisterD
8th November 2006, 08:31
they aint no myths gov..
Innocenti made scaffolding, they used this to make the frame of the lambretta, ever looked at a lambretta frame?


Innocenti were a highly advanced steel-tube manufacturer, making amongst other things (yes) scaffolding, gas pipes,the bodies for bombs, bullets etc etc.
It's a fallacy to say that Lammy frames are scaffolding tubes (for a start, just compare the diameters) what Innocenti did was find away to use their expertise to rebuild the company and the Italian economy post ww2.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't a similar story with Piaggio - using their expertise rather than re-using leftover bits...after all how many starter motors have a gearbox?

texmo
8th November 2006, 09:36
So what did piaggio make before scooters? Go read a book.

Innocenit were the inventors of scaffolding.

The Wop
8th November 2006, 09:42
The other thing that is being missed here is the fact that using bits originally intended for one thing, for something else, is a very clever way of achieving economies of scope (not to be confused with economies of scale). It is very clever for an engineering company to, say, use boiler tube for something else, thereby lowering the average cost of production. That is not dumb, in fact, far from it.

I recall reading somewhere that Piaggio were very involved in the war effort in manufacturing aircraft. They originally developed their scooter as a device to carry soldiers across the battle fields. The scooters and their soldier riders (apparently) were to be dropped from aircraft with special parachutes and upon landing, go quickly across land to attack their enemies.

The clever engineers, of course, seemed to miss the point that 8" wheels would catch in the smallest rut, but maybe there was more to these devices than was alluded to in the article.

It certainly is a very entertaining story, but possibly a little far fetched. Unlike Googie, er, Texmo, I don't tend to believe everything I hear. :yes:

MisterD
8th November 2006, 09:49
I recall reading somewhere that Piaggio were very involved in the war effort in manufacturing aircraft. They originally developed their scooter as a device to carry soldiers across the battle fields. The scooters and their soldier riders (apparently) were to be dropped from aircraft with special parachutes and upon landing, go quickly across land to attack their enemies.

The clever engineers, of course, seemed to miss the point that 8" wheels would catch in the smallest rut, but maybe there was more to these devices than was alluded to in the article.


They did indeed have a design for such a motorbike which was to be the basis of their post war "transport product"...except that the guy they got to do the design job hated traditional motorbikes so in came small wheels, step-through body, the enclosed engine to keep oil of your clothes and the handlebar gear change...et voila the scooter is born.

MisterD
8th November 2006, 09:51
Innocenit were the inventors of scaffolding.

Er, so the frameworks of wooden poles that the medieval cathedral builders used were what exactly?

The Wop
8th November 2006, 09:51
Innocenit were the inventors of scaffolding.

Innocenti invented metal scaffolding poles among many, many, other things. They were a rather famous engineering company. The link between scaffolding and the scooter is tenuous at best.

Piaggio are also famous for a number of inventions, including the pressurised aircraft cabin and retracable landing gear.

Yes, Goog, we all know that Piaggio built aircraft and so what if the Vespa engine is based on a WWII aircraft engine starter motor? That is innovative dude! Seems unlikely though, as why on earth would you use one petrol engine to start another? You would still need yet another electric motor to start the smaller petrol engine. Unless the electric motors of the time did not develop enough torque to turn over the larger engine and they used the smaller one for that?

texmo
8th November 2006, 10:05
Trolling has never been so fun...

I think vespas and lambrettas are fucking awesome partly because of their history and where they were derived from.

Ixion
8th November 2006, 10:16
Use of a small petrol engine to start the (honking big) aircraft engines of the time was not uncommon. Problem with electric starters direct on the big engine (I think - I'm no aircraft expert so correction is welcomed) , was the battery not the starter. You need a jolly big battery for such a big starter. And huge batterys are not good things to have to cart around in a fighter aircraft.

You can of course use a battery cart, as some did. But when you have to get a squadron of planes airbourne real fast, that means having a squadrons worth of battery carts . And having them at the often improvised airfields of the day. So, a little petrol engine, with a little starter, and a little battery, and then clutch it into the big honker. And your aeroplane is independent , can start itself anywhere. And although such a engine might not be suitable for a scooter, the tooling which made it could no doubt be very easily adapted to make engines that were suitable.

MisterD
8th November 2006, 10:28
Use of a small petrol engine to start the (honking big) aircraft engines of the time was not uncommon.

A bit of searching later and as I thought, the original vespa engine is derived from an aircraft starter motor (Googie, this is not the same as actually being an aircraft starter motor).

Interestingly though, the motor was also used to start the plane's wheels rotating before landing thereby reducing the risk of tyre blowouts.

The single-sided front suspension is also derived from aircraft undercarrage design, and I think we can agree that there's no way you could bolt two vespa front ends under a plane and hope to land safely!

texmo
8th November 2006, 13:10
A bit of searching later and as I thought, the original vespa engine is derived from an aircraft starter motor (Googie, this is not the same as actually being an aircraft starter motor).

Same diffrence, and I was kind of a piss take if you hadnt already noticed.
Still they were all very inventive, I mean they had surplus of something they could not longer use, and the nation was at a stand still and needed transport.