View Full Version : Forum Language
Froth
3rd November 2006, 23:33
Is it really necessary to use 4-letter words in our postings? My Mum used to say if you swear it shows your not smart enough; or have enough class to use another word. And no I'm not a christian, I just get tired of being constantly surrounded by public-bar language. That and my kids occasionally read the stuff on here.
A bit of moderation would be good imho.
Chris
Gremlin
3rd November 2006, 23:38
but where do you draw the line?
at the end of the day... spank runs it, and I have no problems with the job he is doing.... we are representative of society as a whole (well, we do tend to be more in favour of higher speed limits, than lower)
meh... how soon until this topic gets closed?
Big Dave
3rd November 2006, 23:54
The children - think of the children!
James Deuce
4th November 2006, 00:18
Yes. Now go find a crusade somewhere else. We don't do PC.
By the way, if I'm swearing, I mean it.
special_jimmy
4th November 2006, 00:28
don't be trying to turn this into one of those PC bullshit forums, this site is fine just the way it is :rockon:
diggydog
4th November 2006, 05:03
i dont find this site too bad for da swear words, at least its not every farking second word. ayeee.:innocent:
sunhuntin
4th November 2006, 06:36
i may have blinders on, but i very rarely see too many foul words here.....at least not half as foul as what they could use.
i suggest you monitor your kids net usage instead....and btw, theyre gonna learn it somewhere. may as well be here.
Sniper
4th November 2006, 06:47
Yes. Now go find a crusade somewhere else. We don't do PC.
Seconded, Im sure if Spank didnt want as much langauge as goes on, he would do something about it. And I do commend the mods cause they do a tough enough job as is without having to moderate every second word of some people. The do however manage to get most of the exsessive posts.
JimO
4th November 2006, 06:48
but the computer is such a good babysitter....dont send your kids to school either cos some of the kids curse there as well
slimjim
4th November 2006, 06:57
yes learn more on a computer than reading a "look and learn"book,yeah right!!, and really your ears may hear the swearing, however on thee screen its only your eyes that see, haha
MSTRS
4th November 2006, 07:25
But it's done with such sensitivity. How can anyone by offended?
Virago
4th November 2006, 07:35
Well, as The Big Yin (Billy Connolly) says,
If you don't like it, Fuck Off.
Don't hang around and wait to be offended - Fuck Off NOW.
(End quote)
Riff Raff
4th November 2006, 07:44
Fuck, your in trouble now, you shoulda posted this in Site Stuff..:rockon:
Holy 'penis inserted into vagina', this sort of 'faeces' really 'urinates' me off.
The odd four letter word thrown in is ok in my book. After all, we use them everyday in our lives and most swearwords are perfectly acceptable nowadays in the media. Overuse of these words in posts is just extracting the urine and those people will get their buttocks infracted.
Froth for your information only bike related stuff should go in General Biker Ravings. This thread has been moved to a more appropriate forum.
Maha
4th November 2006, 07:54
There is a thread on here at the moment doing the rounds, that is getting cleaned out on a dialy basis, i think thats all the mods can do, the thread started off ok but soon turned into total shit, and i mean WTF sort if shit. Two members trading off about incest/racial shit/ beastiality (sp) etc.
If i find that a thread has gone that way and see it on the thread list, i dont even give it the time of day, i can always go to another thread and serve it up there, in a nice way .....:innocent:
Ixion
4th November 2006, 08:05
Maurice extends you an invitation to become one of his "special friends" and become a member of his Gay Flower Arranging forum. It should provide you a more appropriate PC experience , and he assures me no naughty words are allowed at all. And everybody is EXTREMELY sensitive, and everyone thinks of the children constantly . (There is a "super special" subforum for the "special friends" who think a *lot* about the children) .
(Behold! Not a sentence element having letter count betwixt three and (six minus one) anywhere in the present submission)
The_Dover
4th November 2006, 08:11
Fuck, some of you guys are arseholes.
This nice cunt comes along asking us to tone our shit down a bit and we just give him more shit.
Shit.
Sir Dover of, er, Dover BEng(Hons) - Smart Cunt
Big Chim
4th November 2006, 08:21
Holy 'penis inserted into vagina', this sort of 'faeces' really 'urinates' me off.
If we abandon the four letter words and this is what we have to look forward to I'm affraid its all down hill from here.
onearmedbandit
4th November 2006, 08:33
I thought I was smarter because I could drop more 'normal' words and replace them with swear words.
Masterchop
4th November 2006, 08:49
You better not let the kids watch TV, And there is alot worse on the internet than this place so keep them off the internet as well.
And your mum sounds like a stuck up bitch, no wonder your so uptight.
Madness
4th November 2006, 09:16
My Mum used to say if you swear it shows your not smart enough; or have enough class to use another word.
My mum called me a little bastard and told me to fuck off. Bitch.
Froth
4th November 2006, 09:17
Excellent, generated a bit of debate! I've never been accused of being a member of the PC brigade before, first time for everything is guess. Is it only PC people who don't swear?...not in my experience - or do only Un-PC people swear?....depends on the situation I think. I don't swear around my Mum, kids or my Gran, but I'm up there with the best (or worst) when I'm around my workmates. What I'm trying to get at is there is a time and place for everything. I visit other forums (Aircooled RD, Kawasakitriplesworldwide, AlekRD, RD/RZ500.net) that have a general say-what-you-like off topic area, but any other area has a no-slagging, no-swearing policy. And again imho they are better sites for it.
I suppose at the end of the day if this site were to do that, the moderaters on this site would be moderating 24/7 because the monkey is out of cage now and alot of members would find it impossible to change their habits.
terbang
4th November 2006, 09:19
My Mum used to say if you swear it shows your not smart enough; or have enough class to use another word.
Language changed with time. In your mothers time someone who was Gay probably had lots of sex with those of the opposite sex. Class..Hmmm, risky area to debate.
"anthropologists, historians and sociologists identify class as a social structure emerging from pre-history"
That and my kids occasionally read the stuff on here.
Though my kids have been exposed to profane language (in 2 languages) they choose not to use it as a general rule. This is a direct result of parental advice and guidance rather than censoring the internet. If you take a look around the Net you will find all sorts of stuff like This (http://www.stormfront.org/forum/) and that (http://www.pichunter.com/thumbs/peeing.shtml) making KBers look like gurardian angels.
terbang
4th November 2006, 09:25
And again imho they are better sites for it.
But are they..? PC tends to sweep the truth (as gritty as it may be) under the mat..
Froth
4th November 2006, 09:26
Oh hey, Masterchop, my Mum lives in Whitby, if she finds out where you live she'll come over and smack your bottom for being so disrespectful.
Coyote
4th November 2006, 09:27
The children - think of the children!
Fuck that shit
The_Dover
4th November 2006, 09:31
Oh hey, Masterchop, my Mum lives in Whitby, if she finds out where you live she'll come over and smack your bottom for being so disrespectful.
dude, do you think she'd come to auckland if I paid for teh gas???
James Deuce
4th November 2006, 09:34
Excellent, generated a bit of debate! I've never been accused of being a member of the PC brigade before, first time for everything is guess. Is it only PC people who don't swear?...not in my experience - or do only Un-PC people swear?....depends on the situation I think. I don't swear around my Mum, kids or my Gran, but I'm up there with the best (or worst) when I'm around my workmates. What I'm trying to get at is there is a time and place for everything. I visit other forums (Aircooled RD, Kawasakitriplesworldwide, AlekRD, RD/RZ500.net) that have a general say-what-you-like off topic area, but any other area has a no-slagging, no-swearing policy. And again imho they are better sites for it.
I suppose at the end of the day if this site were to do that, the moderaters on this site would be moderating 24/7 because the monkey is out of cage now and alot of members would find it impossible to change their habits.
Look, at the risk of getting yet MORE red rep for speaking my mind (a worse sin on KB that swearing in most people's book), you've got 16 posts and you want to change the culture of KB?
All those sites you mention find it difficult to maintain long term contributing membership because there's only so many times you can go, "Does anyone have a circlip for the left fork leg of an H2 man?".
We talk about stuff other than just bikes, and if you like those other sites so much, then maybe you may want to consider making those your virtual home, rather than nannying us or passing judgement after visiting for the equivalent of about 2 nano seconds.
I get the feeling that you've mistaken ridicule for debate too. I'm sorry we didn't meet your standards, but I'm not changing how I do things just because you let your kids read a site that maybe you shouldn't.
MSTRS
4th November 2006, 10:00
Good advice Jim. Different strokes for different folks. It's how we do things round here and has been in the near-3 years I've been posting. Tis derigeur, along with KBisms like 'gargre' 'praking' etc
sunhuntin
4th November 2006, 11:19
well said jim! couldnt have said it better m'self.
i also dont swear around kids [if i can avoid it] but im always shocked by the number of kids that swear around me! mum nearly hit a girl who ran in front of her on the bridge...mum got called a fuckin bitch for the girls stupid actions.
you dont want your kids to know swear words, keep em out of an adult environment. its bad enough that titty pics are censored on here! [btw, i grew up with a foul mouth, even had it washed out with soap a few times, but today, im one of the most respectful "kids" i know. so swearin dont harm anyone.]
Virago
4th November 2006, 11:49
Froth, there are several points to consider.
1. You're a newbie here. Did you at any stage think that criticising the way the site is moderated was going to be well received?
2. This site is aimed at bikers, and the users of the site are almost without exception, adults. Adult themes and discussions are to be expected. You don't have to like or agree with everything on the site, but you have to accept that some of the rougher edges of the biker culture will be present.
3. This is not a children's site. If you are allowing your children to access the site, this is obviously YOUR problem, not ours. Some parental control and responsibility would be in order. The owners, moderators, and users of this site are NOT responsible for what you allow your children to view on the internet.
4. The site is privately owned and operated, and does not belong to the users. Too many people lose site of that fact.
5. The moderators in general do a great job of keeping order, a thankless task that usually only attracts criticism and abuse.
6. If you don't like the site as it is, go away. I'm sure you will find many like-minded people on the other over-moderated sites that you mention.
Steam
4th November 2006, 12:17
I think Froth is a troller, a dummy profile set up by another member. It's just too much of a whimpy thing to complain about to be real.
James Deuce
4th November 2006, 12:31
Steam....Froth.... It's YOU and you real handle is LATTE!
Sniper
4th November 2006, 12:31
I think Froth is a troller, a dummy profile set up by another member. It's just too much of a whimpy thing to complain about to be real.
Looks genuine to me
Big Dave
4th November 2006, 12:36
Looks genuine to me
I can just see you going over posts with one of those big jeweller's magnifying glass thangs.
'ah yes - .025% previously posted content....'
Sniper
4th November 2006, 12:37
I can just see you going over posts with one of those big jeweller's magnifying glass thangs.
'ah yes - .025% previously posted content....'
PMSL. :killingme
Nope, Im not that anal.
Big Dave
4th November 2006, 12:38
Steam....Froth.... It's YOU and you real handle is LATTE!
Better Latte than never.
^ Hey! - New slogan for Auckland.
u4ea
4th November 2006, 13:06
jeepers creepers!Froth is full of bowel bial!mabe he should have intercourse with himself and as i am far too full of class i myself would never consider bahaving like female genitalia on a bike site......:innocent:
maybe a cockforehead such as Froth would seriously consider having a game of tiddly winks before his hand wanders and he becomes a bigger mastubator......:Punk:
Froth
4th November 2006, 14:13
I couldn't give a toss if what my posting score is, or how well recieved my post is, I'm entitled to my opinion. I voiced it. If you guys can't come up with a better aguement than "If you dont like it go somewhere else"; and personal attacks on my character then I most certainly rest my case. In regard to the sites I quoted: visit them, try them out, maybe you'll like 'em, maybe you won't. One thing they aren't though is over moderated.
At the end of the day it looks as though democracy has won the day, most people posting in reply don't support what I'm saying - I have to accept that, and that the NZ biking community are generally speaking a bunch of potty mouths.
Anyway, I'm off to ride my bike.
MattRSK
4th November 2006, 14:15
Pull the plug man, pull the god damn plug. All your troubles will disappear in an instant.
jonbuoy
4th November 2006, 14:17
This has to be a wind up, - Dover? Winger?
slimjim
4th November 2006, 14:35
I couldn't give a toss if what my posting score is, or how well recieved my post is, I'm entitled to my opinion. I voiced it. If you guys can't come up with a better aguement than "If you dont like it go somewhere else"; and personal attacks on my character then I most certainly rest my case. In regard to the sites I quoted: visit them, try them out, maybe you'll like 'em, maybe you won't. One thing they aren't though is over moderated.
At the end of the day it looks as though democracy has won the day, most people posting in reply don't support what I'm saying - I have to accept that, and that the NZ biking community are generally speaking a bunch of potty mouths.
Anyway, I'm off to ride my bike.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :corn: :grouphug: hahahaha , fucking beaut Froth, never seen so much nice-a-t's ,and yup "you did feed after Dark"
Korea
4th November 2006, 15:29
They'll here it soon enough so you should educate the little tykes about the F* word before they get it from somewhere else.
Here is a little pearl of wisdom that is sure to help - (listen to .wmv file).
Good luck~!
Waylander
4th November 2006, 15:51
They'll here it soon enough so you should educate the little tykes about the F* word before they get it from somewhere else.
Here is a little pearl of wisdom that is sure to help - (listen to .wmv file).
Good luck~!
You and I were thinking the same thing lol. Here is a vid if you want something to look at instead of listening to a file.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TWj4gkfkS4
rwh
4th November 2006, 15:53
Is it really necessary to use 4-letter words in our postings? My Mum used to say if you swear it shows your not smart enough; or have enough class to use another word. And no I'm not a christian, I just get tired of being constantly surrounded by public-bar language. That and my kids occasionally read the stuff on here.
A bit of moderation would be good imho.
Chris
Think about it positively - it helps you to work out who are the nice people before you meet them on a ride or something.
Richard
u4ea
4th November 2006, 15:53
They'll here it soon enough so you should educate the little tykes about the F* word before they get it from somewhere else.
Here is a little pearl of wisdom that is sure to help - (listen to .wmv file).
Good luck~!
hahahahha absof#%@#nlutly halarios!!!!!!!:laugh: :rofl: :rofl: :killingme :killingme
Waylander
4th November 2006, 15:55
Think about it positively - it helps you to work out who are the nice people before you meet them on a ride or something.
Richard
Hey I'm a nice guy and I fucking curse all damn day.
Sniper
4th November 2006, 15:56
Think about it positively - it helps you to work out who are the nice people before you meet them on a ride or something.
Richard
Stop sucking up!
Hey I'm a nice guy and I fucking curse all damn day
Nice? Nice? You terrorised my damn pussy the whole time you were down here
Waylander
4th November 2006, 16:02
Nice? Nice? You terrorised my damn pussy the whole time you were down here
So many ways I could respond to that, I actually can't choose wich one is best.
onearmedbandit
4th November 2006, 16:03
I don't swear around my Mum, kids or my Gran, but I'm up there with the best (or worst) when I'm around my workmates.
- I have to accept that, and that the NZ biking community are generally speaking a bunch of potty mouths.
Anyway, I'm off to ride my bike.
Whether this is a wind up or not, I take it you include yourself in that community.
Ixion
4th November 2006, 21:25
My Mum used to say if you swear it shows your not smart enough; or have enough class to use another word. And no I'm not a christian, I just get tired of being constantly surrounded by public-bar language.
Ah well , y see mate that's bikers for you. Now , me , I'm a public bar person. And working class. As are a lot of bikers.
So us plebians being what we are , we're an uncouth lot.Shit, half the time I don't even remember to crook me pinky when I'm drinking me char.
Seems to me , you've come to the wrong place. Don't think your Mum would want a chap like you, middle class, saloon bar, public school too , I imagine, associated with riff raff like us. Suspect you'd be a lot happier somewhere where the membership was more rayfined , geneetl, like.Middle class in a word.
But as I'm quite happy with my working class public bar persona, I intend to carry on just as I have.
Ghost Lemur
4th November 2006, 22:53
FYYFF (Fuck you, you fuckin fucker). p/t
In all seriousness. Language exists for a reason. To communicate thoughts, feeling, concepts and ideals.
Swear words have a valid and rightful place in communicate. Of course like all language it can be abused. The mass media are the biggest offenders, with their sensationalist misuse and abuse.
So in conclusion...
"Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker and Tits."
oldrider
4th November 2006, 22:53
You own a bike.
You post on a bike forum.
You use a picture of a car as your avatar!
You don't like the way the forum members behave.
You let your kids read the forum despite that.
You still listen to your Mother for advice on how to live your life.
You want us to change to suit you and your kids and your mother's standards.
You are the one who has serious problems in my opinion.
You have the right to live your life as you choose.
You do not have the right to dictate how I should live my life.
You really could choose to be part of the forum as it is and enjoy it.
You also have the right to fuck off! :yes: Make your choice quickly so we can all just get on with life, as we like it! :done: See ya. John.
heyjoe
4th November 2006, 23:44
Froth, there are several points to consider.
1. You're a newbie here. Did you at any stage think that criticising the way the site is moderated was going to be well received?
2. This site is aimed at bikers, and the users of the site are almost without exception, adults. Adult themes and discussions are to be expected. You don't have to like or agree with everything on the site, but you have to accept that some of the rougher edges of the biker culture will be present.
3. This is not a children's site. If you are allowing your children to access the site, this is obviously YOUR problem, not ours. Some parental control and responsibility would be in order. The owners, moderators, and users of this site are NOT responsible for what you allow your children to view on the internet.
4. The site is privately owned and operated, and does not belong to the users. Too many people lose site of that fact.
5. The moderators in general do a great job of keeping order, a thankless task that usually only attracts criticism and abuse.
6. If you don't like the site as it is, go away. I'm sure you will find many like-minded people on the other over-moderated sites that you mention.
I agree and well said.
Froth, you can make your own choices on what you read on the internet and also for your children if they are not of age to make choices themselves.
Big Dave
5th November 2006, 00:03
"Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker and Tits."
Tits doesn't even belong - it's such a friendly word - hey toots - tits - tits toots - how ya doin'!
Kendog
5th November 2006, 06:22
You own a bike.
You post on a bike forum.
You use a picture of a car as your avatar!
You don't like the way the forum members behave.
You let your kids read the forum despite that.
You still listen to your Mother for advice on how to live your life.
You want us to change to suit you and your kids and your mother's standards.
You are the one who has serious problems in my opinion.
You have the right to live your life as you choose.
You do not have the right to dictate how I should live my life.
You really could choose to be part of the forum as it is and enjoy it.
You also have the right to fuck off! :yes: Make your choice quickly so we can all just get on with life, as we like it! :done: See ya. John.
"I" statements are always more effective John. Like this, "I love your work and I hope you continue to share your pearls of wisdom with us". See. :mellow:
Mrs KD.
Masterchop
5th November 2006, 08:16
You and I were thinking the same thing lol. Here is a vid if you want something to look at instead of listening to a file.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TWj4gkfkS4
Thats FUCKING great.
MattRSK
5th November 2006, 11:34
You and I were thinking the same thing lol. Here is a vid if you want something to look at instead of listening to a file.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TWj4gkfkS4
Say it loudly and proudly, FUCK YOU!
Hitcher
5th November 2006, 12:37
A bit of moderation would be good imho.
Chris
Imho? Don't use that kind of language around here, young man!
I have no problem with people using proper words in an appropriate manner. I am more alarmed by piss poor spelling and fucking appalling grammar.
Waylander
5th November 2006, 15:30
Imho? Don't use that kind of language around here, young man!
I have no problem with people using proper words in an appropriate manner. I am more alarmed by piss poor spelling and fucking appalling grammar.
Also the word ASS!!!
gijoe1313
5th November 2006, 15:50
:jerry: :jerry: :jerry: :corn: :corn: :corn:
MattRSK
5th November 2006, 15:59
<img src="http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/162644/2/istockphoto_162644_spit_the_dummy.jpg">
Lou Girardin
5th November 2006, 16:05
Is it really necessary to use 4-letter words in our postings? My Mum used to say if you swear it shows your not smart enough; or have enough class to use another word. Chris
Fucked if I know. I guess I'm just another cumb dunt.
idb
5th November 2006, 16:17
I'm partly in agreement with you Froth.
Swear words can be great for emphasis but often they're just bad manners in an open forum.
It depends on the circumstance I suppose.
onearmedbandit
5th November 2006, 16:23
Well fuck me, someone fucking agrees with you.
MattRSK
5th November 2006, 16:25
Fuck Fuckk Fuck
Ghost Lemur
5th November 2006, 17:55
I agree with Buddy Christ.
sunhuntin
5th November 2006, 19:05
so, only 4 letter words are disliked? therefore, the following are acceptable:
bitch
motherfucker
tramp
slapper
wanker
tosser
jerkoff
ballsac
shit-shovel
fuckwit
sonofabitch
have i missed any?
diggydog
5th November 2006, 19:20
You better not let the kids watch TV, And there is alot worse on the internet than this place so keep them off the internet as well.
And your mum sounds like a stuck up bitch, no wonder your so uptight.
exactly right i could'nt put it any better.:whocares:
Squeak the Rat
5th November 2006, 19:20
My favourite radio station has an ad that goes something like this: "Fuck-knuckles cock and piss. Balls."
Language like this has become acceptable in certain places and contexts. It's on TV, it's on the radio, it's on the net at sites where bikers hang out and talk shit. Do I swear at work? Not much because it's not appropriate. Do I take my kids to work? No, because I don't have any.
ps - if you know what station I'm talking about above please dont mention the name, I'd hate it if froth or [m]ilk decide to lay a complaint because their kids might tune in.....
Nutter34
5th November 2006, 20:06
dude, do you think she'd come to auckland if I paid for teh gas???
That must have been the best comeback of the whole thread....
sAsLEX
5th November 2006, 20:15
After all, we use them everyday in our lives and most swearwords are perfectly acceptable nowadays in the media.
I am in the Navy and some of the older ones around can swear constantly for what seems like 10 minutes with little repetition, KB is tame more so than the average school yard.
Ixion
5th November 2006, 20:29
I am in the Navy and some of the older ones around can swear constantly for what seems like 10 minutes with little repetition, KB is tame more so than the average school yard.
And that's just the Chaplain.
sAsLEX
5th November 2006, 20:35
And that's just the Chaplain.
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QHK5ajMQ_SU"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QHK5ajMQ_SU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
Sniper
5th November 2006, 20:41
so, only 4 letter words are disliked? therefore, the following are acceptable:
bitch
motherfucker
tramp
slapper
wanker
tosser
jerkoff
ballsac
shit-shovel
fuckwit
sonofabitch
have i missed any?
Whore
Cocksucking tramp
Fuckhead
Fuckup
Fucking
Fuck-a-duck
Fuckiddy
Tea-bag
skelstar
5th November 2006, 20:43
I thought it amusing that the above video uses the word "Froth" as an example of one of the words that start with 'F'. LOL.
diggydog
5th November 2006, 21:02
yeah nice one jim, hopefully that put froth in his place, actually he might be frothing at the mouth now!!!!.
Robbo
5th November 2006, 21:13
FYYFF (Fuck you, you fuckin fucker). p/t
In all seriousness. Language exists for a reason. To communicate thoughts, feeling, concepts and ideals.
Swear words have a valid and rightful place in communicate. Of course like all language it can be abused. The mass media are the biggest offenders, with their sensationalist misuse and abuse.
So in conclusion...
"Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker and Tits."
Was'nt that a quote from George Carlin from his Class Clown Album??
Shit, that dates back to the 70's and definately was'nt very PC back then but was Farkin Funny.
Anyway, they are only words so lighten up or dont tune in.
sAsLEX
5th November 2006, 21:14
Was'nt that a quote from George Carlin from his Class Clown Album??
Shit, that dates back to the 70's and definately was'nt very PC back then but was Farkin Funny.
Anyway, they are only words so lighten up or dont tune in.
Monty Python originally the vid I posted
Waylander
5th November 2006, 21:16
Monty Python originally the vid I posted
lol I think it being poted three times has driven the message home.
Ghost Lemur
5th November 2006, 21:18
Was'nt that a quote from George Carlin from his Class Clown Album??
Shit, that dates back to the 70's and definately was'nt very PC back then but was Farkin Funny.
Anyway, they are only words so lighten up or dont tune in.
Wikipedia is your friend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words). :Punk:
Ixion
5th November 2006, 21:21
Hm. There is a censorship thing in Vbulletin, that will replace naughty words and phrases with *s. Mr Spankme turned it on once to vex WINJA and Crazy Steve,
I wonder if it could work in reverse so that, for those who wished, it would remove the naughty words from posts when they (the sensitive souls with censorious Mummys) viewed the post. Whilst leaving it alone for normal viewers.
bounce
5th November 2006, 21:26
I don;'t think Froth was ever going to be well recieved raising this as an issue. Posting on forums is pretty much guys catching up with each other sharing stories etc and they'll likely as not use the same language as they would in person. Not sure that all the jabs people are taking at him are really necessary though.
Froth; there is a company called watchdog that is a family friendly ISP. Downside being that sites not making the cut are blocked entirely. Might be a better option if you worried about the kids??
idb
5th November 2006, 21:27
Well fuck me, someone fucking agrees with you.
Ah....ah.....ah...yawnnnn!!!!
Robbo
5th November 2006, 21:29
Wikipedia is your friend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words). :Punk:
Hey thanks Ghost, yep! that was it, the seven deadly words that you can't say on television. Looks like my altzheimers aint that bad after all.
Guess i'll just fuck off now and have another beer.
Cheers
idb
5th November 2006, 21:34
............. and they'll likely as not use the same language as they would in person.
That's the issue though.
You don't know everyone in person.
You wouldn't use the same language to everyone on this forum if you were standing in front of them.
Ixion
5th November 2006, 21:37
I would. Granted if I were talking directly to someone and they were unhappy with the nature of the language I would self censor it. But one can't do that when addressing a group as one necessarily is on a forum.
idb
5th November 2006, 21:42
I would. Granted if I were talking directly to someone and they were unhappy with the nature of the language I would self censor it. But one can't do that when addressing a group as one necessarily is on a forum.
But........why not?
And I suggest that you self-censor during any given conversation simply by summing up who you are talking to.
idb
5th November 2006, 21:52
Interesting that this topic has raised almost as much discussion as this http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=20619 which I would have thought was a far more pressing issue!
Ixion
5th November 2006, 22:04
But........why not?
And I suggest that you self-censor during any given conversation simply by summing up who you are talking to.
Because when posting on a forum one is "talking" to a (potentially) very large audience. And the exact composition is unknown. When posting I cannot know who is going to read what I post.
I regard KB as the cyber equivalent of the local pub (the public bar which OP so despises).I write as I would speak when chatting there to friends over a pint (Speights, of course) . I do not see why I should adopt a stilted and artificial mode of conversation , to please the whim of one person, who may not even read what I have written, when the tone is acceptable to the vast majority. The degree of vernacular on the site seems consistent across most of the members. It is only a few who have problems with it. Why should the many be constrained, forced to put themselves into a artificial and uncomfortable mode for the sake of a small minority.
If the small minority have issues with the conversational standards of the great majority, I suggest that the minority go elsewhere.
I note also that the OP did not complain on any high moral or religious grounds - he did not say that , for instance, blasphemy was hurtful to his religious beliefs (and even the Great Zed had no problems with the language of the site). rather his objections were that the tone of language was too "lower class" for his liking. If his gripe with the site is based on affected class discrimination, then the sooner he buggers off the better.
James Deuce
5th November 2006, 22:09
If his gripe with the site is based on affected class discrimination, then the sooner he buggers off the better.
Amen, comrade.
idb
5th November 2006, 22:22
Because when posting on a forum one is "talking" to a (potentially) very large audience. And the exact composition is unknown. When posting I cannot know who is going to read what I post.
I regard KB as the cyber equivalent of the local pub (the public bar which OP so despises).I write as I would speak when chatting there to friends over a pint (Speights, of course) . I do not see why I should adopt a stilted and artificial mode of conversation , to please the whim of one person, who may not even read what I have written, when the tone is acceptable to the vast majority. The degree of vernacular on the site seems consistent across most of the members. It is only a few who have problems with it. Why should the many be constrained, forced to put themselves into a artificial and uncomfortable mode for the sake of a small minority.
If the small minority have issues with the conversational standards of the great majority, I suggest that the minority go elsewhere.
I note also that the OP did not complain on any high moral or religious grounds - he did not say that , for instance, blasphemy was hurtful to his religious beliefs (and even the Great Zed had no problems with the language of the site). rather his objections were that the tone of language was too "lower class" for his liking. If his gripe with the site is based on affected class discrimination, then the sooner he buggers off the better.
I thought you were the one to introduce class to this thread.
I can't see that he has mentioned it at all....but I'm happy to be corrected.
Are you saying that any conversation that you engage in without the use of swear words is stilted and artificial?
I'm sure I've seen plenty of posts from you without any profanities at all and I've found them to be free-flowing and natural in the main.
Ixion
5th November 2006, 22:44
..
My Mum used to say if you swear it shows your not smart enough; or have enough class to use another word.
..
I presume OP intended the negation in the preceeding phrase to apply also to that highlighted.
And of course no one is saying that swear words or profanity are NECESSARY to a conversation. But their use as markers of emphasis, of approval or disapproval, of intensification or diminuation provides the essential character of what is termed vernacular.
Compare :
"Well, bugger me, I'm deep in the shit now"
to
"Well, my goodness, I'm in serious trouble now"
Both say the same thing. The first has a vibrancy and richness that is completely lacking in the latter. Indeed the second almost has an over tone of facetiousness. Most members of this site, and most bikers, would find the first a far more "natural" response if they were indeed in such a situation.
An example of the artificiality that accompanies non natural speech can be seen in the "afternoon tea with the vicar" skits common on television. When forced into conversation with a priest most people find themselves ill at ease, and constrained from their normal free flow of speech, fearful least they accidentally utter a "bad word" .
Conversation is at its best when people are relaxed and speaking directly and straightforwardly without paraphrasing or hesitancy. Which they cannot do if they must constantly be monitoring their words and phrases.
WarlockNZ
5th November 2006, 22:52
LOL ... i would have quoted the post above but it's just to large ..
Of course profanity can have a lighter side as well, There are many words that have managed to make in into the modern lexicon, that can be taken either in or out of context, it is of course dependant on the inflection with which they are used.
I submit this video as a case in point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P57RmHg5DWs
WarlockNZ
5th November 2006, 22:53
Or perhaps this ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rX7-R54-Q8
Big Dave
5th November 2006, 23:22
be free-flowing and natural in the main.
I like a free flowing mane.
onearmedbandit
5th November 2006, 23:44
I was going to add to this debate, but decided it was pointless. The only person on this site who will possibly clean up the language here is SpankMe, and I don't see that happening in a hurry. Don't like it, don't read it. It's been said before, it's simple to do, and costs you absolutely nothing. But that's not all, it also reduces your stress levels leading to a longer more satisfying life. Call now, our operaters are standing by.
Joni
6th November 2006, 07:47
Actually OAB its the moderators task to ensure the language does not get too harsh - Spankme introduced an infraction for that specific thing :yes:
Yeah its a biker site and I reckon 90% of us swear in one way or another... however the over the top stuff should be kept off KB.
Swoop
6th November 2006, 08:16
In your mothers time someone who was Gay probably had lots of sex with those of the opposite sex.
Surely back then it would have been a term for a "jolly" person? As Homer Simpson says "You gays have stolen all our good words!"
Language like this has become acceptable in certain places and contexts. It's on TV...
I am preparing for the day when the "f" word becomes commonly used on the radio. We are getting closer...
To the original post. Thank you for allowing your children to view our forum. We will be sending you a bill for educating your children in a manner which is not provided by our education system.
Here they will be exposed to *gasp* NON-PC language, which is what most of NZ needs in our current nanny-state oppression.
MSTRS
6th November 2006, 08:29
I couldn't give a toss if what my posting score is, or how well recieved my post is, I'm entitled to my opinion. I voiced it. If you guys can't come up with a better aguement than "If you dont like it go somewhere else"; and personal attacks on my character then I most certainly rest my case. In regard to the sites I quoted: visit them, try them out, maybe you'll like 'em, maybe you won't. One thing they aren't though is over moderated.
At the end of the day it looks as though democracy has won the day, most people posting in reply don't support what I'm saying - I have to accept that, and that the NZ biking community are generally speaking a bunch of potty mouths.
Anyway, I'm off to ride my bike.
Ha-Fucking-Ha.
You are the weakest link. Goodbye. (KB translation - You don't fit. Fuck off)
Joni
6th November 2006, 08:36
and for the record... keep it clean guys, yes this thread is about swearing... but no need to get abusive with each other. Everyone has different opinions.
onearmedbandit
6th November 2006, 08:41
Actually OAB its the moderators task to ensure the language does not get too harsh - Spankme introduced an infraction for that specific thing :yes:
Yeah its a biker site and I reckon 90% of us swear in one way or another... however the over the top stuff should be kept off KB.
Harsh yes, I understand that. But the odd swear word in a reply or post I don't think so. Saying something like 'I had a fucking great ride today, plenty of arseholes on the road however' is surely okay, or am I mis-informed?
James Deuce
6th November 2006, 08:42
Everyone has different opinions.
No they don't. At least they won't when I'm "Glorious Leader".
Joni
6th November 2006, 08:45
Thats what I said/meant... 90% of us swear and that wont change I reckon, its the over the top stuff that we as Mods are required to work on. No Nazi stuff required at all... and everything should be taken into context.
:sunny:
Joni
6th November 2006, 08:47
No they don't. At least they won't when I'm "Glorious Leader".Im contemplating if im looking forward to or dreading that day hun :innocent:
Macktheknife
6th November 2006, 08:51
Froth, you are almost certainly winding everyone up, if so well done.
If by some small perverse chance you are serious.... well its been said. 2 words, second one is off, you seem to be a smart fella, work it out.
Paul in NZ
6th November 2006, 08:56
Because when posting on a forum one is "talking" to a (potentially) very large audience. And the exact composition is unknown. When posting I cannot know who is going to read what I post.
I regard KB as the cyber equivalent of the local pub (the public bar which OP so despises).I write as I would speak when chatting there to friends over a pint (Speights, of course) . I do not see why I should adopt a stilted and artificial mode of conversation , to please the whim of one person, who may not even read what I have written, when the tone is acceptable to the vast majority. .
Exactly.... Except.....
Most people DO use language VERY differently when on the net that say at the public bar...
KB's not quite a public bar (to me), it's more like a bike rally bonfire. You should behave like you are surrounded (closely) by a bunch of semi pissed, leather clad, working class stiffs having their first break from double shifts at the freezing works for 6 months. ie - join in the fun but you better be a little more careful than usual about calling someone a c%%t to their face.
I can tell you that in every public bar I've ever been into, telling people you have just met to F%^K off is NOT a recipe for a long life or attractive dental work.
Froth has a point and it should not be dismissed out of hand.
I'm old, which in itself is not remarkable or a reason for respect BUT I've held a bike license for 34 years and last time I looked, I aint dead yet. So - when some wet behind the ears sprocket with a GSXR on tick and a bad attitude tells me to F&&K off... Just because he can on line - I do take exception because he wouldn't do it to my face...
OK - I'm getting off the point again - self moderating our language is not a bad thing and is a topic worthy of debate BUT I would never like to see imposed censorship.
MSTRS
6th November 2006, 09:46
No they don't. At least they won't when I'm "Glorious Leader".
:drinknsin ...all hail...:finger:...the KB salute... :shake: ....the KB bow...
James Deuce
6th November 2006, 09:52
Further to the language discussion:
Big Dave
6th November 2006, 10:07
in a tiny inner-city pub, the amps were being stacked
leads were getting wound up, it was full of pissed anzacs.
got no more gigs for tuesday nights, said the barman to the star
we're putting pokies in the lounge and strippers in the bar.
the star, he raised his fingers and said, "fuck this fuckin hole"
but to his faithful roadie he says, it's the death of rock and roll
there ain't a single place that's left to play amplified guitar
every place is serving long blacks and become a become a tapis bar.
his dirty denim jacket was gaffered and turning black
hair was missing on his forehead but it reached right down his back.
i don't blame that barman bastard he told his roadie, "hey, fuck no"
i blame all those faggot wankers, who are playing this techno.
brothers couldn't work it out, get fucked, they can kiss my rotten ass
work out what happened to real music, is what i'd like to ask
everything is all machine, run with middy and lay dash,
but all they do is go ping ping ping like a truck that's backing back
who the fuck are the chemical brothers, that they now call the shots?
goldies the name of the light beer, elastica holds up socks
the roadie sat there silent next to the ejaculating star
what's the fucken point of drum and bass, if no one can play guitar?
CHORUS
aussie, (aussie guitar)
aussie, (aussie guitar)
have you seen those fucken clubbers, with their peroxided dreds?
dressed up in fucking adidas, like fucking fucked fuckheads.
i wouldn't drop a tab of E, if you fuckin paid me man
i got the guts for LSD, and the only jungle i know is nam.
these roadies sat still silent, but then he finally began to speak
actually star, i maybe shoulda told you this last week
but i scored a job as DJ at the latest techno club
i'm sick of working with a loser, see ya later bob
well the roadie owned the PA and the roadie owned the ute,
the roadie told star to get out or he'd bash one up his shoot
and there on that cold freeway, star walked along alone
of course he got kicked out halfway between emergency telephones
CHORUS
aussie
aussie, (aussie guitar)
aussie, (aussie guitar)
aussie, (aussie guitar)
aussie, (aussie guitar)
aussie, (what a man, what a man, what a man)
"fuck ya's all", said star aloud in the emergency stopping lane
to quote from that chick juliet, hey what's in a name?
a good song's just a good song, just the same as long ago
but dressing up as something new and suddenly you're picasso.
every white bald pommy cunt, thinks that you're so hip
read MNE from ten years ago and there's all the same dickslip
prodigy are just the band who are getting it just this year
rolling stone's got no more cred. than fucken new idea
stars anguishd voice rolled in grief as he cryed unto the moon
in the end when all is said and done, a tune's just a fucking tune
star played his amp far too loud, his hearing was sorta gone
so he never heard the grinding squeal as the truckie put the brakes on
26 road train wheels, played a tune upon his head
"he just wondered into the traffic", the distraught driver said
the cops had seen it all before, the ambos washed the freeway clean
there ain't no contest when you put a man against a machine
aussie
aussie (aussie guitar)
aussie (aussie guitar)
aussie (what a man, what a man, what a man)
aussie
aussie
aussie, (aussie guitar)
aussie,
aussie,
aussie, (it's a man against machine)</pre>
Big Dave
6th November 2006, 10:14
Further to the language discussion:
Basketball - Power forward for the Chermans at the Atlanta Olympics was 'FUCKA' - written in 4" letters on his back.
Pron: Fusch-car
I still call opposing 6'8" power players 'Big Fuckas' to this day.
Fatjim
6th November 2006, 10:32
FUCK
ooops
BTW, welcome to KB
Sniper
6th November 2006, 10:41
:drinknsin ...all hail...:finger:...the KB salute... :shake: ....the KB bow...
Dare you challenge the Glorious leader
*Speaks hurridly into a sleeve button*
ManDownUnder
6th November 2006, 10:48
the KB salute... :shake: ....the KB bow...
Just not near Maurice - he's likely to take you up on it... or in it
MSTRS
6th November 2006, 10:50
Just not near Maurice - he's likely to take you up on it... or in it
Nah...that's THIS bow. :moon: There is a difference. Apparently. :buggerd:
MSTRS
6th November 2006, 10:53
Dare you challenge the Glorious leader
I dare. From a distance.
Sniper
6th November 2006, 11:17
I dare. From a distance.
Thats not fair.
Swoop
6th November 2006, 11:29
This thread appears to be heading towards the Auckland Crime Syndicate...
So Jim is Don?:Punk:
McJim
6th November 2006, 11:32
What an auspicious start to a KB life! How to nark 90% of the bikers off in one easy post...A troll extraordinaire in the making perhaps?
Since I'm from Glasgow it wasn't until I was 29 that I learned swearing wasn't something done by all and sundry and that some people could form entire sentences without swearing!
It's easy to solve the worst of the KB swearing though - Just put Dover on ignore! - personally I wouldn't - I find the most offensive threads are often the most entertaining.
Welcome to KB.....if you stay....
ManDownUnder
6th November 2006, 11:38
Is it really necessary to use 4-letter words in our postings? My Mum used to say if you swear it shows your not smart enough; or have enough class to use another word. And no I'm not a christian, I just get tired of being constantly surrounded by public-bar language. That and my kids occasionally read the stuff on here.
A bit of moderation would be good imho.
Chris
Y'know - I respect someone that stands in the tide of opinion and says their peace.
:niceone:
Welcome aboard. Get to know the people beyond their responses in this thread... most are actually good value.
Skyryder
7th November 2006, 09:52
There is no other word in the English language like it. It denotes our basic needs in so many different ways. It's a one sylable word that the dumbest of morons can say and know the meaning of. As a noun and an adjective it is unsurpassed. We all like to be told what a great fuck we are and there is no more a turn on than being told to 'fuck me.' Like I ask you. "Intercourse me' just does not cut the mustad. :dodge:
Skyryder
Hitcher
7th November 2006, 10:21
"Intercourse me" just does not cut the mustad.
The mustard or even the motard.
jrandom
7th November 2006, 10:40
no more a turn on than being told to 'fuck me.'...
No no no.
Hearing that always just makes me giggle and experience an urge to sit up and expound on the Inverse Butt-Pimple Theory.
You know. The one that states that the budget of a porn movie is inversely proportional to the number of butt-pimples on the female leads.
idb
7th November 2006, 10:56
I presume OP intended the negation in the preceeding phrase to apply also to that highlighted.
He never said "...of the right class..." though - but I suspect you know that already.
All he was calling for is some good manners and self-control by people.
Everybody naturally interprets that differently.
Everyone seems to be getting on their high horses about imposed censorship.
Nobody wants that.
scumdog
7th November 2006, 11:07
' just does not cut the mustad. :dodge:
'Mustad' is a brand of fishing hook , why would you want to cut a fishing-hook??
The Stranger
7th November 2006, 13:19
the Inverse Butt-Pimple Theory.
You know. The one that states that the budget of a porn movie is inversely proportional to the number of butt-pimples on the female leads.
You have an interesting theory there Fish. What other gems do you have floating around to help us on our journey through life.
Just watch the fucking movie fish and stop counting butt pimples.
jrandom
7th November 2006, 15:02
Just watch the fucking movie...
The fucking movie.
Indeed.
Class.
The Stranger
7th November 2006, 15:08
A bit of moderation would be good imho.
Yeah, and whilst we're at it, maybe we can add a user infraction for postings about pussies.
Anyone who posts about a pussy that has four legs or a tail should be sin binned until they get a life.
SpankMe
7th November 2006, 15:20
I don't do kids safe sites. They are sterile and boring. You only to look at the sites I do or have run.
SpankMe's Mass Murder
Planet Lezbos
SpankMe's Playboy archive
When I started the first Counter-Strike NZ site I later hooked up with the guy who now runs www.cstrike.co.nz, but we had a falling out when I insisted on having a Playboy Playmate of the day image link on the homepage instead of the usual boring game screen shot. "What about the kids" he said. "Fuck the kids" I said. "Everyone I know who plays CS is in their 30's". Well it was his server so he took it over.
KB is no different from a biker pub where people gather to talk about biker shit or just talk shit.
The_Dover
7th November 2006, 15:25
I hope we're not expected to fuck the kids too Spank, I do have my limits.
ManDownUnder
7th November 2006, 15:27
I hope we're not expected to fuck the kids too Spank, I do have my limits.
Ditto.. and I'm disappointed spank didn't actually link to his other sites. They sound worthy of research
yungatart
7th November 2006, 15:48
I hear the same language all day at school as I read on here... you learn to tune it out eventually
MSTRS
7th November 2006, 16:10
I hear the same language all day at school as I read on here...
What? From the staff? And the Headmaster? No wonder the kids are growing up thinking it's OK to Eff and Blind :innocent:
Hitcher
7th November 2006, 18:49
Yeah, and whilst we're at it, maybe we can add a user infraction for postings about pussies.
Anyone who posts about a pussy that has four legs or a tail should be sin binned until they get a life.
Ditto for people who post stuff from YouTube.
Waylander
7th November 2006, 18:51
Ditto for people who post stuff from YouTube.hey now, what's wrong with posting stuff from youtube?
Hitcher
7th November 2006, 18:57
hey now, what's wrong with posting stuff from youtube?
Isn't that what YouTube is for?
Waylander
7th November 2006, 19:16
Isn't that what YouTube is for?
So you don't want us helping others with searches by finding things of interest for them? At least most of the time it actually has something to do with the thread topic.
Unlike Fish and you going off on spelling and old books.
skelstar
7th November 2006, 19:21
What rips my shorts re: youTube etc is when someone just starts a thread called 'This is neat' and just posts a youTube/newspaper link and just say 'This is really funny LOL'.
Sometimes a brief synopsis/hint to what the link holds is useful. Esp with newspaper articles its not that hard to quote the article. Often find myself quoting FOR people, lazy pricks.
Maybe this is the wrong topic/thread, but its been heading this way for a while.
Lou Girardin
7th November 2006, 20:37
No no no.
Hearing that always just makes me giggle and experience an urge to sit up and expound on the Inverse Butt-Pimple Theory.
You know. The one that states that the budget of a porn movie is inversely proportional to the number of butt-pimples on the female leads.
Really? I only rent guaranteed pimple free movies. (If it's good enough to wax, it's good enough to make-up)
Hitcher
8th November 2006, 08:09
What rips my shorts re: youTube etc is when someone just starts a thread called 'This is neat' and just posts a youTube/newspaper link and just say 'This is really funny LOL'.
Sometimes a brief synopsis/hint to what the link holds is useful. Esp with newspaper articles its not that hard to quote the article. Often find myself quoting FOR people, lazy pricks.
Don't get me started on the subject of lazy use of the "subject" line. I have way too many pairs of ripped jocks.
Also don't get me started on why people talk about jocks and trousers in the plural when there is only one object.
skelstar
8th November 2006, 08:12
I assume 'trousers' is short for 'trouser pants' hence the plural?
[edit] Actually wikipedia mentions nothing of the root of the word.
no I don't want to join your BOT club ;)
Squeak the Rat
8th November 2006, 08:12
And what's with people saying "don't get me started on" or "let's not talk about" and then describing the very thing that they didn't want to get started on or talk about? :killingme
ceebie13
8th November 2006, 08:29
that's funny.... Froth has disappeared:whocares:
Hitcher
8th November 2006, 08:51
And what's with people saying "don't get me started on" or "let's not talk about" and then describing the very thing that they didn't want to get started on or talk about?
And don't get me started on that either!
Skyryder
8th November 2006, 15:28
that's funny.... Froth has disappeared:whocares:
He's 'intercoursed' off. Or did someone go and tell him to 'slap 'n' tickle himself.
Skyryder
Froth
8th November 2006, 19:58
Na, still here Guys. I haven't started a post this interesting in my life! Man some of you guys wind up easy. Makes me wonder how you'd be over somthing really important. It's amazing how discussion on moral standards, political correctness, censorship (none of which mentioned by me) can polarise people. It got me thinking: what are you guys afraid of?
Oh, see if you can come up with constructive arguement instead of abuse, anyone can do that, gets kinda boring after a while.
Hitcher
8th November 2006, 20:03
Argument. No "e" necessary.
McJim
8th November 2006, 20:05
Well bugger me and paint me pink - I thought this thread was supposed to be about f**king swearing!
Does everyone else get infraction notices for Off Topic?
Blondini
8th November 2006, 20:09
Na, still here Guys. I haven't started a post this interesting in my life! Man some of you guys wind up easy. Makes me wonder how you'd be over somthing really important. It's amazing how discussion on moral standards, political correctness, censorship (none of which mentioned by me) can polarise people. It got me thinking: what are you guys afraid of?
Oh, see if you can come up with constructive arguement instead of abuse, anyone can do that, gets kinda boring after a while.
If you actually looked at the site properly,you will see how the kb crew deal with IMPORTANT things:nono: And afraid?:killingme
jrandom
8th November 2006, 22:49
Argument. No "e" necessary.
Yes it is.
Lou Girardin
9th November 2006, 05:53
Yes it is.
Share the love then.
Edbear
9th November 2006, 06:24
There is no other word in the English language like it. It denotes our basic needs in so many different ways. It's a one sylable word that the dumbest of morons can say and know the meaning of. As a noun and an adjective it is unsurpassed. We all like to be told what a great fuck we are and there is no more a turn on than being told to 'fuck me.' Like I ask you. "Intercourse me' just does not cut the mustad. :dodge:
Skyryder
Some of us don't have to ask...:innocent:
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