Punished!

[Coldkiwi]

Ok, it happened... I got my comeuppance (sp?) on Sunday.

This is good : Happily found myself behind a bloke in a Porsche turbo (late ninties I think) with a desire to have a go! :D

This is not so good: the road was twilight road from clevedon over the hill and through to whitford park road.:(

I stuck on him fine until I got into the first two sharp(marked about 20kmhr) corners but then he sadly started getting away through the next 8 hairpins going up there! he slowed for me to overtake after cresting the hill (i think his missus was beating him by then) and we had another short rocket trip to the intersection before parting company.

but yeah.. dissapointed that he pulled away, although if I was ever going to get whipped by a car, I think that road and a porsche turbo is a good way to start! I know the hill sort of well but normally take it quite easy given other cars tendancy to cross the lines out of blind corners! I'd like to say i could take him another day but i'm not sure.

Anyone else got sob stories about being bested by a car?

[Dave]

No sorry,Never happened!
Sad for you though.

[duckman]

Gosh Dave - What about that ride to Sulphar city ....hmmm...weren't you being overtaken by kids on pushbikes ???:p

[Dave]

Oh yes-That,
45miles an hour on a 61 year old indian (motorcycle not red)
probably doesn't count.
-The bugs were hitting ME in the back of the helmet!

[festus]

Nope, but had a guy in a 500SL convertable give me a good go on that new bit of motorway near Wellington.

I wouldn't feel to bad about that though dude!, a car like that would be able to peel off corners quicker than a bike!.

One must remember too that there are a lot more cars these days that are just as quick as most bikes, in most cases however the advantage with bikes is they get to top speed quicker than the cars do............ 

Festus

 

[Redstar]

na never been beaten but then you made the right call in the end
I remember I aced a bmw on a 500 suzuki GTA in 1977 he was so pissed he followed be to a gas station and took my number so I took his and we played "my dad is bigger than yours" but I felt so good. but then I was 17 and bullet proof
these days I have a three sons and thats what makes the difference.

Its the matter of fact that if you wanted to you could have but you were bigger than his ego so you live and he might?

[Redstar]

oh yeah

whats the difference between a corvette and a corguette

about $250,000
350hp
and 300klm/hr

[eNZed Fred]

Memorable beatings from cars :

1976. Riding Kawasaki H2 (750 triple 2-smoke)  Heading north out of Foxton at night, and came up behind a V12 E-type Jag.  Glued to his arse up to 80mph, even up to 100, then I topped out at 125 and he just pissed off into the darkness.

1977, same H2, Pukerua Bay Hill (going north), 110 mph and got passed by a Corvette Stingray.

About 1980, sth on Hutt motorway in real heavy pissing-down rain.  Side by side and weaving traffic in both lanes with a Lotus 7.  95 mph was all it took, I was on a 900 Bol'dor Honda.

About 1978 up near Waipukurau had a long session with a 6 cylinder MGB.  I was on a 500 single.  He was quicker through slow corners.  We called it off after he spun out on some roadworks and I went through on the wrong side of the marker pegs.

Not many cars around now that will do more than 240kph, and far fewer drivers that will have a go.

 

 

 

 

[SPman]

Last night on the way back from New Plymouth on the Pirongia road I thought I was going to get done by a rather quick Skyline..  It  was pitch black and I like to see where the road is when Im going around corners at speed! Caught him on a straight between Te Kowhai and Ngaruawahia, down 3 gears and redline into the night....bye bye Skyline!.....whew!....had me worried for a while...still, he came in handy as a sweeper for any cops patrolling the road (2 that I saw)

[Marmoot]

I was blasting at 145 on SH1 going up to Auckland from Hamilton when suddenly I saw this car coming the opposite lane. Then, I guess he did a U-ey because the next thing I knew he was right behind me . I then stopped to ask him how he did it because everybody know no car can beat a fireblade (ahem....):eek:
It turned out there were 2 identical cars with 1 waiting further up ahead of me but I didn't see it. That was the one glued up to my arse. The other one caught up a bit later.

They were both white with red and blue stripes...... :argh:

[Coldkiwi]

Yeah.. i would've liked a rematch on some of the other roads around hunua/clevedon etc. his car was stuck like glue through those corners and there's probably not too many cars that handle better (those things are friggen light too!) and have better braking etc into such close tight corners than a porsche turbo! I did generally gain a little on the very short straights (30metres max!) but it certainly wasn't enough room.

still... like the man said.. his probably cost about $250,000 more so its not so bad! :)

I'm sure I'd do his sorry ass in a straight line tho :D:done:

[750Y]

Don't feel bad about it. A lot depends on conditions. Even If You did catch him You could never have overtaken on that twisting hill.
Cars have the advantage of 4 tyres on the road and can also slide controllably in the tight stuff. when it's one blind bend to the next You haven't got a shit show of taking them safely if they're going hard. They also have the advantage of not having to worry so much about getting it right because if they cock it up they won't be dealing with the same sorts of consequences we motorcycle riders would.
My advice to all is just don't do it. There are some maniacs out there who don't understand how vulnerable we are or just plain don't care. Imagine if You got past some idiot only to be held up later. That same idiot would be all over your ass and that aint a nice feeling trust me. I had a guy a month or so back who turned into michael schumacher the minute i passed him. i could feel the cars' shadow over me from the morning sun. oh btw i have gone side by side with a cabriolet porsche on my 98ninja6 & walked away, but the wheel was coming up. after that the guy went like an idiot in the traffic obviously spewing.
I came upon a guy last week but when i went to overtake.. hello? michael f&^%$kin shumaker again. He went crazy to try & shake me. I pulled back to take the pressure off him because he was driving dangerously and i was getting concerned for oncoming traffic. I was signalling to him to get back on his side of the road. I was so glad I wasn't on a bike coming the other way.
I see some parallels with the recent cops/bike chase incident.

[Gixxer]

one dark night about 20min out of Rotorua from Matamata, had a Legacy pull up behind me sitting on my arse, could not see anything so pulled over a bit to let him pass, thought I would repay the favor and when we hit 190k and i could not see in front of me I decided back down, still he was flying and took the corners alot faster then I was. may have been a different story in the day.

 

[wkid_one]

It hasn't happened to me.  With the power to weight advantage bikes have - it shouldn't ever happen.  - Yes the Porsche will be able to carry 'potentially' more corner speed - however the bike has the advantage of occupying less space on the road - therefore effectively being able to straighten the corner out better.  I prefer the twisties and would struggle to see how most road cars would keep up.

A Porsche weighs approx 1400kg, with at MOST 273kw (standard) - or 371HP - if it was 4WD it would lose about 35-40% of its power through the drive train reducing it to 241hp at the wheels.

This amounts to .17hp/kg.  The average bike say weighs 220kg wet - meaning to equal the car on power to weight - it would need to produce 41hp (allowing 8% lose of power from flywheel to rear wheel) - same a many 250cc's.  I am not even going to compare this with a 155hp sports bike like the GSXR - it is pointless as it is almost a horse power per kg.

The highest performance cars struggle to accelerate to 100kph in under 4's - with only a select few being able to do so in 5.5secs or below - remembering this is also measured by 'subjective' manufacturers - in optimal conditions with a race test driver - so hardly valid.  Bikes frequent this sprint in sub 4 sec times.  So even if the car managed to catch you in the corner - they wouldn't have a shit show on the straight (again this is bike dependant - eg a gn250 won't beat a Diablo - and rider dependant)...much of it therefore comes down to your cornering prowess (and size of your kahuna's).

Then you have factors like inertia to overcome, and if the Porsche was 2WD it effectively reduces the power that is useable through slippage etc..

 

 

[Coldkiwi]

I have no qualms with the power to weight advantage I enjoy (and I really DO enjoy it) but do you KNOW that friggen road!? Not only is every corner well beyond 90 degrees (most are probaly 140-160 degree turns), the road is cambered in a rather inconsistent manner, is carved out of a cliff and is one of the narrower roads around. I'll take you up it some time and you'll see what a bitch it is! :) (imagine a series of blind hair pins in worse condition than Puke with 1/4 of the width)

If I had been able to hang on to him up there (screw passing) I would have been STOKED!!

Yeah 750, i was very aware of going to hard into those left handers especially in case I did go wide and had an intimate moment Nhuan style! Not my idea of a good time!

 

[wkid_one]

I LOVE that road - it is a blessing - but just too short......I love slow twisty road tho and think that a road like that 10km long would rock.....Most (if not) all of the road can be taken in 2nd gear..........provided you set your entry up well.

I used to live in Alfriston so rode that area all the time.......the corners are tight - but typically well cambered (just not good in winter because they are slippery when wet) - there is the one corner to be careful on on the Clevedon side where the road has subsided,the double apex corner at the top, and one double apex corner towards the bottom of the Clevedon side - but other than that most of the corners are honest.......

I miss that road - I used to take the Alfriston/Clevedon/Twilight/WhitFord/East Tamaki road all the time rather than the motorway.....

 

[Motu]

I hope you were carefull of the chooks at the top of the hill! Last time I was up there I shared a meal with the roadside bandits - but one of their number was flat.Here's feathery legs coming to check out my nose bag.

[750Y]

Wkid is right, but wkid, You have a twin which has the torque to get out of low speed corners quick unlike the multis which must build up revs and some corners do not allow for a rider to carry high speed or high revs which is where the quick little cars come into their own. the hp figure is less relevant than the torque figure in the twistys. not making excuses tho. I'm not ashamed to say that I had a stationwagon pulling away from me through some sections of road. I rode to the conditions and rode safely for myself and other road users. There's no prizes for crashing. ...flame away 8-)

[Coldkiwi]

me thinks I need to go practice it some more wkid :)

Having said that, i prefer the slightly longer straights between sharp corners found on skyline road to hunua. probably something to do with having more time to get the revs up.. and the corners aren't so blind. I've seen many cars cut those corners on twilight because they tighten up like they do. Slightly more open (maybe 10-25%) is my preference.

 

[bluninja]

I hate tight slow corners....remind me too much of hairpins :Oops:

TTFN

[750Y]

I hate tight slow corners....remind me too much of hairpins hahahaha

tell us more bluninja

btw Motu great shot of the chooks. I sometimes stop and let my daughter feed them.

[bikerboy]

:Oops: I agree with Simon, fast sweepers are much better than tight twisties(hairpins):D

[wkid_one]

I just love corners and hate straights......that's why I own a bike.......having discovered the pleasure of knee down cornering I am hooked - soooo wicked.

Cold - with that road just stay off the brake a little more than you would think and ride the bike using the gears to control speed without the brake - keeps the balance better for the corners and keeps the revs up better. 

The problem with that road is the blind corners where you can't see the exit line until you are well through the corner - which is what causes most riders to slow (and panic brake).....trust your ability to read the corner - there are only 3 on that road that have decreasing radius' - the one at the top and right handers on the way down towards Clevedon.  Use your throttle to control your line not your brake.

I myself hate blind crest corners - that scare the shit out of me...I hate not being able to see over a crest and read where the road is going.

[wkid_one]

750 - still with the power to weight and torque to weight advantage a bike has over a car, regardless of twin, multi or triple - no car should out accelerate a bike out of a corner.  Same reason from a standing start why cars typically have a slower 0-100kph time than bikes....demonstrative of the torque and power of the bike over the car.

Yes torque/pulling power is important - however - twins rev lower so picking gears is no less important in a twin than a multi.......the key is not torque - but gear selection..........which determines whether the torque is available to use.

Also - following someone is always harder to pass them because you become transfixed with their driving and tend to brake when they brake and follow their line.  Once you get in front of them - you will typically put significant margin on them quicker because you are riding your own ride.

Fecked if I would try and pass a game Porsche driver on that road - he is too wide - too unpredictable and the road is too narrow.

[bikerboy]

:D I agree with Wikd. I hate blind crest corners!:rockon:

[SPman]

Blind crest corners are the pits - unless you know them and attack them in a leap of faith, hoping theres noone over the top where they shouldnt be:eek: I like my car passing twisties a little more open - like the Tairua hill or going up from Kopu.........majic! :D

[Motu]

Been doing that hill for over 30yrs,cars,bikes,gravel and seal.I'm a bit biased,but I feel I have an advantage there with my adventure bike - these things rock on this sort of road.I get right up on the tank,chin over the steering head,I have a Vtwin with plenty of over rev - I can damn near do the thing in 2nd all the way - I'd pull the wheel up going over the top...but I love my chooks.

The other road going over to the south of town was gravel for longer and was one of my favorites - it goes straight up,both sides,with twisties over the saddle.Haven't done it for awhile,maybe next time.

If I was to name the road most important to me,it would be Skyline,I was sad to see it sealed,but that just means I can do it faster.Once had a blow out on the front wheel,full lock 3rd gear slide,the right bar end got tangled with my knee,but we got through ok.Parked a few bikes in there and walked out (no traffic in those days).Hey,had to park my bike 2001 on the road this thread is about!

[festus]

Wkid, how do those VTR's go do'in wheel stands? with all that torque/power to weight ratio??

Are you able to pull it up in third?

[Coldkiwi]

yes, well, aside from the power issue, those porsche's have a FRIGGEN big traction advantage and room for error (as 750 pointed out) if he gets a bit hot into a corner and needs to stomp on his ABS. I also simply don't know those corners well enough to know which one I'm up to and whether its a decreasing one or a normal one.

knowledge is power and is porbably worth more than a bit more power on that road

 

[andy1]

just wanted to say something about cars blasting.
i ride a cbr 250, until last week. but anyway about 2months ago i was riding up north the back roads with a big group of bikes, we came across a holden manro, year 1980's i think, big fuckn thing, a v8 monster. 3 bikes in the group managed to pass him (one on the back wheel about 160k) but soon as they did, he lost his mind and started chasing them, soon he got up the arse of my mates i couldnt belive my eyes, he had his hands out the window pulling the fingers yelling and screaming at us(and driving fast). WHY! why do some people hate motorcycles so much, didnt think we got in the way or anything. but i was impressed about his speed in the corners thou, 120k-130k arould some 55k corners i didnt know cars were able to corner so fast (on the road not race track). may need to have a secong thought about blasting a car. no problem in the tight shit tho. maybe i need a bigger bike! but some much fun in the twisties!
anywayz laterz.
get your knee down!

[Coldkiwi]

in the twisties is probably where cars do better Andy. They will always have more frictional force (especially a well set up car thats not too heavy, ie. my mate in the porsche!) that will enable them to corner faster. What they loose in agility and braking is normally not enough to make up for that traction advantage. Where they should get destroyed is pulling out of the corners, the straights and braking in to them.

I would guess the dirty manaro driver had an ego the size of his engine and didn't appreciate being mocked by a biker on one wheel!

The only way I can think of to mock a driver more is to use just the other wheel. ie. go so fast that you can pull a rolling stoppie as you overtake them... and then wave with one hand :) That would be my definition of class.:niceone:

Although I should add that I haven't personally done that yet!! I did see some mad bikers on monster garage pulling one handed stopped stoppies though which I thought was pretty classy. Anyway.. the bikers weren't half as mad as those yankee boys modifying that ambulance to pull wheelstands!!!! OSH would have a field day prosecuting them in NZ!

 

[wkid_one]

I must confess I am not a wheelie fanatic - power stands yes,  The VTR will do them on roll on in first and second.  Wheelying in 3rd needs clutch but will pull up.  I am not experienced enuf - I have only been riding for 3 years in July.

You seem to have forgotten one important factor when assessing the cornering ability of the Porsche versus the bike.

When a bike is in the lane - it occupies far less space, enabling it to better straighten the corners out and maximise a straighter line.   Whilst the Porsche has four wheels for better traction it occupies more space allowing minimal variance in its line through the corner.  The traction is therefore offset in part by the factor we, as bike riders, can maintain a straighter line through corners.

Anywho CK - I hope you are now practicing that road - now if only I could find one like that 10km long.

[Marmoot]

A car does have more grip from 4 wheels but also the additional weight to offset it.
In order to go fast enough through the corner (and take advantage of the 4 wheels) a car needs to drift the rear wheels out, which is plain dumb crazy in public road (imagine smacking your butt to the oncoming vehicles).
That's why it is impossible for a car to go faster than a bike in PUBLIC twisty.

But on the racetrack that is a different matter........

Also, one advantage of the bike, if all else fails, is the price. You can always say "well, yours is ten times more expensive than mine" :niceone:

[Coldkiwi]

not so convinced about that marmoot... when you slide the tyres, the co-efficient of friction nearly halves which gives you about half the ability to change your direction. I would agree you can change the orientation of the car quicker by sliding like a rally car in tight hairpins but in a sweeper type corner, sliding the tyres will probably end in tears!

I also agree that a bike can take a straighter line on a road but when the lane gets seriously narrow (ie twilight) that advantage starts dissipating as well.

but I FULLY adhere to the idea that 'well if I spent 200,000 on my vehicle I could probably do a bit better too!' :)

Can't belive you like hooning on roads not popping wheelstands on a  1 litre V-twin wkid!! Thats terrible!

 

[wkid_one]

Yeah well - power stands on exits of corners yes I do that - can't but help it when you give the bike the full wick.  Power stands over crests - yip also.

Wheel Stands nah - haven't been riding long enough - and I refuse to bin a bike doing something as stupid as a wheel stand.......plus there is so much stress on the bike on landing - fairing cracks/fork seals etc.

Of course - like any large litre rider I have practised doing them when no one is looking.....as you do. 

I kinda like the feeling of the front wheel lifting on the exit of a corner when you are still leant over when you wind on the throttle.

[SPman]

Front wheel lifts on full power coming out of corners is great! Love it! You know youre cranking it on when you start doing that! The Tairua Hill is good for that - particularly with traffic :D

Hoiking the front wheel up just because you can, in a straight line, has never really appealed (read - he can't do it!).Always seemed counter productive to me! Whereas, lofting the front over crests on power is a different story :niceone: Got a beaut loft last weekend on the Mangawhai road!.......Luv It!:eek:

[Blackbird]

On the Kawakawa Bay to Miranda stretch.  Had my old BMW K100 RS and took on a Subaru WRX STI.  He killed me through the corners and all I could do was get back close down the next straight and so on - pretty mortifying.

Now I've got the Blackbird, there's nothing to prove unless the tin top driver REALLY, REALLY deserves it, so I rarely bother  :niceone:

[Coldkiwi]

thats not so bad on a bemmer! the sti's would handle very nicely through those hills too and their top end deficiency wouldn't be shown up till you got down to the coast at which point he'd be blackbird fodder!

[Blackbird]

I suppose so!  The Beemer was a lardy old tub, but it had no vices so could be pushed pretty hard. The Beemer has seen me safely through 3 Rusty Nuts 1000 miles in 24 hours rides, the best being in under 19 hours so they can still get along ok over longer distances.  Thinking of doing it on the 'bird this year, but worried that I might need wrist and knee surgery afterwards:argh:

[Marmoot]

Do you mean BMW actually build bikes???? :gob:




:p

[Blackbird]

Ones which don't have to stop every 200 k's for gas, and cost bugger all to keep runnning:p

You weren't up in Coromandel on Sunday were you?  Saw a 'blade, 3 Gixxers and a Daytona parked in town.

[Marmoot]

But, it if is so good, why were you converted to the bird? :p

'nyway, how many of you ride on Sunday, and how many of you ride on Saturday? And how many on both?

I never go out on Sunday.

[Blackbird]

Everyone has a different "fitness for purpose".  The Beemer was an '85 model and sooner or later, I'd be up for a big bill, plus I wanted something with real stomp and good braking before I grew up :D

In my case, I wanted something my wife would be comfortable on for long hauls, but had sporty performance for solo work.  I didn't like the look of the 'busa and my riding partner who has one destroys a back tyre regularly whether he's riding hard or not.  ZX12R?  Hmmmm.....  a bit uncomfortable for passengers, hence the 'bird.

I normally ride on Sundays, but it really depnds what my riding partners are doing.  Sometimes take a day of in the week - less cops around then! 

  

  

  

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