Building a rotary-powered bike??

[colt45]

I have a plan to start a long project involving two of these engines, http://www.wankel-ag.de/lcrkart_e.html or two of these http://www.nova-racing.com/nova_gb/index.htm.
and getting them turned into a two-rotor engine, one of these engines produce about 48hp, and with some port work, i'd love to do PERIPHERAL, but most likely BRIDGE, hopefully it should put out 100hp+, finding a gearbox i can match to it and i will need to either modify an existing frame, most likely a two-stroke rgv/nsr frame, or get one exclusively made.

What do you think of this?? i know there is the norton f1 but that is horrible.

The engine can be done at www.res.co.nz

[Jantar]

I know there is the norton f1 but that is horrible

Huh? The norton is a beautiful engine. Designed in the late 1970's and the engine is still used today in light aircraft and US military drones.

I notice that both the engines you refer to are listed as 4 stroke rotary. How on earth can a rotary be a 4 stroke?

Um, you have posted this question twice: Which thread do you want the answers to appear on?

[andrea]

hey someone built a project bike using the 13b rotary with turbo, it was a trike and i think its still on trade me

[Colapop]

That's something I'd like to do too. However I'll focus on the immediate plan of maintaining the bike I currently own first. You'd do better to build one out a rotax engine. Heaps more power and better delivery.

[Jantar]

That's something I'd like to do too. However I'll focus on the immediate plan of maintaining the bike I currently own first. You'd do better to build one out a rotax engine. Heaps more power and better delivery.
Or get one already built. http://www.rotaryrecycle.net

[Colapop]

It a good idea though. Just be aware of the costs - it aint cheap to build a bike from scratch. Even if you have a frame and a whole lot of bits (engine etc) you'd still have to get the frame strengthened (or at least) certified...

[colt45]

But where is the fun? i could just turbo charge a two stroke but i love the dirty sound of the rotary, and the rotax engines aren't as powerful, and won't rev to 11000, and this would be a lot more fun.

[stanko]

Before Van Veen built the OCR1000 he made a prototype using a 10a or 12a in a modified MotoGuzzi V7 frame using the Guzzi Gearbox.

[TLDV8]

........ hopefully it should put out 100hp+, finding a gearbox i can match to it and i will need to either modify an existing frame, most likely a two-stroke rgv/nsr frame, or get one exclusively made.


I doubt it would fit into a RGV frame let alone the major problem of a transmission.

Building a frame or machining the parts is simply a matter of having the skills and access to the tools/machinery needed.

[hurricane_r]

How on earth can a rotary be a 4 stroke?


intake/compression/combustion/exhaust -4 strokes

[Jantar]

intake/compression/combustion/exhaust -4 strokes
Yes, a rotary and a 2 stroke have intake/compression/combustion/exhaust phases, but not on seperate strokes of the piston. Indeed a rotary has no strokes, but completes all phases on one rotation of the crackshaft, or on 1/3 of a rotation of the rotor. So its a no stroke.

[onearmedbandit]

4 strokes have '4' strokes of the conrod for each firing stroke, 2 stroke '2' strokes for each firing stroke. 'intake/compression/combustion/exhaust' is what all petrol engines do, it has nothing to do with '4 stroke'. I agree with Jantar

[Jeaves]

intake/compression/combustion/exhaust -4 strokes

Compression and combustion are on the same stroke/rotation .

[hurricane_r]

oops................................mybad*corrrect ed my self

[hurricane_r]

i jsut watch suzuki RE5 intro movie and he explains the 4-strokes,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Wankel_Cycle_anim_en.gif/180px-Wankel_Cycle_anim_en.gif
nowing my luck im probably wrong so il just say either way who cares, good lcuk with ur project seems a bit DREAMY to me though
aint saying cant be done

[Jantar]

i jsut watch suzuki RE5 intro movie and he explains the 4-strokes,
I have a copy of the original RE5 Movie on DVD, and although it compares the 4 phases with a 4 stroke engine, it never calls the rotary a 4 stroke. Being a rotor, (you know its a thing that goes round and round, not up and down) there are no strokes, just a circular motion.

Have a look at my signature. :yes:

[hurricane_r]

yea ok read my last post

[Mr. Peanut]

:devil2: :devil2::devil2:I thought a turbocharged, lightened 20b in a Hayabusa would go down quite well :devil2:

[hurricane_r]

a bit tooo well

[2much]

I have a plan to start a long project involving two of these engines, http://www.wankel-ag.de/lcrkart_e.html or two of these http://www.nova-racing.com/nova_gb/index.htm.
and getting them turned into a two-rotor engine, one of these engines produce about 48hp,

interesting concept. are you an engineer? reason i ask is that getting a custom eccentric shaft and centre plate machined up is going to be fucking expensive.


and with some port work, i'd love to do PERIPHERAL, but most likely BRIDGE, hopefully it should put out 100hp+,

Are you sure these engines run a side port setup? (i couldn't find any details). The only reason mazda use a side intake port is for idling quality, for a kart motor i doubt this is a major design concern so i suspect its probably PP already.



finding a gearbox i can match to it and i will need to either modify an existing frame, most likely a two-stroke rgv/nsr frame, or get one exclusively made.

I wouldn't even consider attempting to build your own sportsbike frame.... find one that measures up.


i know there is the norton f1 but that is horrible.

I think u need to do abit more homework on the F1. Otherwise please explain what makes it horrible?

[andrea]

you guys should check this site out, its got an out of it exhaust, spins around like one of those gatling machine guns http://www.tailgunnerexhaust.com/performance.php

i especially like this bike
45403

45404

[2much]

yeah the tailgunner, seen that before. Each to their own but its not for me. if i remember correctly it claimed it improved performance by sucking the exhaust out..... yeah right.

[imdying]

you guys should check this site out, its got an out of it exhaust, spins around like one of those gatling machine guns http://www.tailgunnerexhaust.com/performance.phpI was stumped for a little as to how you made the connection... but was it rotary engine/rotary barrel cannon?

[Dadpole]

I think u need to do abit more homework on the F1. Otherwise please explain what makes it horrible?

It is a Norton


PT :dodge:

[andrea]

I was stumped for a little as to how you made the connection... but was it rotary engine/rotary barrel cannon?

nah i was just browsing and looking for rotary bikes but came across this site,
those rotary's have so much power those rotaholics usually get their engines dowled by precision engineering over albany, where they drill right through the rotar housings. something bout the engine twisting n shit. could you imagine what it'll be like having a 13b on a bike, man even a big as 20b even.
hmm i wouldnt mind a 13b turboed one, with a big as bridgey.
YEAYEAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

[-df-]

I have a plan to start a long project involving two of these engines, http://www.wankel-ag.de/lcrkart_e.html ....

quote "Design: 1-rotor rotary piston engine with carburettor" how does a rotary engine have a piston?:Oops:

[Mr. Peanut]

quote "Design: 1-rotor rotary piston engine with carburettor" how does a rotary engine have a piston?
1-rotor 'rotary piston' engine... makes sense to me.

[-df-]

1-rotor 'rotary piston' engine... makes sense to me.

but...a piston is...um...up and down...and.....well....:shutup:

Can't say I've ever heard of a rotor being a piston...but then I don't have much to do with rotories...

They aren't still refered to as pistons????

[imdying]

1-rotor 'rotary piston' engine... makes sense to me.Nope, that's just plain wrong. The bit in the middle is not a 'rotary piston', it's a rotor. Rotary piston is the terminology you'd perhaps use to try to explain a rotary engine to a mechanical simpleton. As far as 4 stroke goes... no conrod, no stroke, so that's out too.

http://www.answers.com/topic/piston
1 A solid cylinder or disk that fits snugly into a larger cylinder and moves under fluid pressure, as in a reciprocating engine, or displaces or compresses fluids, as in pumps and compressors.

http://dict.die.net/piston/
A sliding piece which either is moved by, or moves against, fluid pressure. It usually consists of a short cylinder fitting within a cylindrical vessel along which it moves, back and forth. It is used in steam engines to receive motion from the steam, and in pumps to transmit motion to a fluid; also for other purposes.

They're not definitive of course, but we get the idea.

[James Deuce]

They are definitely rotors NOT pistons (there are a bunch of dead Wankels spinning at 8000rpm due to that statement). Pistons go up and down, rotors "sweep". I think the "dude" was just trying to point out it is an internal combustion engine.

[imdying]

rotors "sweep"I thought they would've 'rotated' :lol:

[James Deuce]

I thought they would've 'rotated' :lol:

Pistons work through a "stroke" in operation and rotors "sweep" the area the rotate through, gathering charge, combusting, and exhausting, hence the phrase swept volume when describing the cc rating of a rotary.

[imdying]

Heh, I just thought it would go well with the rotating smiley :lol:

[stanko]

The term "Rotary piston" is derived from Drehkolbnmotor the german term for Rotary piston motor. The first such engine the DKM-54 first ran under its own power on 1 Feb 1957 . DKM is an abbreviation for Drehkolbnmotor. So the term was coined by Felix Wankel, pretty hard to argue with that.!

[James Deuce]

Who built the last German rotary powered car and how long ago? You're looking at 40 years ago and they only spent about 8 years developing and building rotary powered cars culminating the NSU Ro80. Norton's rotary has been developed and in production longer than anything the Germans did and Norton is now a distributor for pocket bikes in the US. The Japanese have been building rotary engines for 40 years, still do, and call the rotary "piston" a rotor.

I go with the guys that know more about rotaries than old Dr Wankel ever did.

[Mr. Peanut]

I like engines period.

[toymachine]

Why the fullstop after saying period? :whocares:

I'd like to hear this bike...

[imdying]

pretty hard to argue with that.!Must be something lost in the translation.

[aerobubb1]

Saw this thread and thought Id better put my 5c worth in for what its worth, there seems to be a bit of confusion about the sachs engines and wankel engines in general, alot of people make comments on them not fully understanding the engine or actually knowing anything about them at all and as there are not many people out there who do fully understand them who is going to know! You can say whatever you like!
Anyway I am going to clear a few things up on this subject, for every rotation of the shaft it fires once (not 3 times as many think) and the amount of gas compressed and burned for that 1 fireing say the engine is 125cc so you can virtually directly compare them to a 125cc two stroke engine, where it gets confusing for alot of people is where you bring the rotor into the picture, the rotor is only doing 1 third of crankshaft speed not 3 times crank speed (another urban myth), so you need 3 complete crank (e-shaft) rotations to get the engine to fire on all 3 sides of the rotor.

So heres where it gets even more confusing because the rotor is only doing 1 third engine speed the efective crank angle of the engine ends up being around 270 degrees of crank rotation so when you compare this with an ordinary 2 stroke engine with an effective crankangle of around 120 degrees its a big difference. This extra effective crank angle makes the wankel a very smooth running engine when you also concider nothing in the engine is changing direction, I have had people try and tell me that "rotary engines do go up and down thats why they have a figure of 8 chamber if they went round and round they would have a round chamber" this is not the case it is just an optical illusion created by the spirograph effect of the rotary engine if you don't beleave me go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wankel_Cycle_anim_en_nojitter.gif and have a good long hard look eventually you will see its an illusion
So you might ask with an effective crank angle more double that of the 2 stroke engine why are they not more powerful than a 2 stroke engine of the same capacity? Well the biggest factor in this is torque,
The stroke of the wankel is minimal compared to that of a 2 stroke engine so where the wankel makes up for a long effective crank angle it looses out on stroke, but all said and done a 125cc two stroke and a 125cc wankel should be fairly closely matched in power, the 2 stroke would probably win due to more development no one except norton ever built successful wankel race bikes, to see the norton wankels in action go to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBg86bjr8l0&feature=relate

Anyway back to the forum I have been working on my own turbo wankel bike a honda mb100 chasis, with honda mb100 gearbox with mb5 internals, the engine is a periphial ported km3 110cc lawmower engine and I have only had the engine running NA at the moment and have not bothered tuning it as I will be turbocharging it as soon as the turbo turns up from japan, you can see it running at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOsCUtEE_W8
Alot more work to do on it will hopefully have it done by the end of the year

[honda929]

Ive got a john player special sitting in my shed, Shipped it over from australia,all it needs is new rotor seals and then:woohoo: