"I'm such a slow rider" - Yeah right! [Archive]

Andrew

8th July 2004, 23:59

Ok so something has got me thinking over the last few days.
I could be out on a ride or looking through these forums and always get comments like: "I'm such a slower rider", or "It's more bike than it is rider", or "I'm not a good rider" etc.
Fact of the matter is, time and time again those who make these comments are really fast/good riders and often there aren't many if any better riders.

TS, FF, MR, KK, and Frosty are all offending examples just to name a few. :Pokey:

So I'm left with the question in my mind - **WHY**. Why is it that these fast/good riders have to put themselves down?

Is it because of modesty or politness?

It it because you enjoy being told by slower riders that you're a good/fast rider?

Afraid of other riders having expectations of you which you feel obligated to meet?

They say the first step to dealing with a problem is admitting it. So come on guys, its time to come clean and admit that you're good/fast riders!!

I don't think I'm the only one who has found this among riders. So it would be interesting to hear your takes on why fast riders seam to put themselves down. :2guns:

Any ideas???

Oh & BTW => You can't use old age as an excuse this time FF.

Bob

9th July 2004, 00:05

No idea - but guessing a lot of people are modest.

It is funny with track days though - you get people who think they are 'really something special'... until an instructor goes past them like they are standing still!

As for me? I KNOW I am not fast. No false modesty there - not often I get to do 80mph (130kmph?), let alone much over! But I do work hard on being smooth in my riding style.

I'd be interested to find out why people that can 'push the envelope' hide their talents under a bushel though.

wari

9th July 2004, 00:17

FAlste humility is annoying ... :eyepoke:

So one wood hope thatit wasnit that woodint one ... :yeah:

MINd u ...

So is braggartery .. eh ... :apint:

bgd

9th July 2004, 02:43

Think I prefer the false modesty to the 'riding god' variety.

Kwaka-Kid

9th July 2004, 05:27

/turns a blind eye to th thread... i didnt see it!

Well firstly i shouldnt be on the list! its not fair! i think the problem is if you hear stuff like that too much your head size increases - it changes you, and you hardley benefit from it. id personally far prefer to be told what im doing wrong, or somewhere i can improve. A small compliment to ones riding style can be fine, but only that, and even then , i think i just have personality issues with accepting praise, and will turn it into humour. mybad.
but yeah, Far more can be done with critism then can be with praise. So dont waste your breath on me, make use of it!.

KK

FzerozeroT

9th July 2004, 06:33

Well firstly i shouldnt be on the list! its not fair! i think the problem is if you hear stuff like that too much your head size increases - it changes you, and you hardley benefit from it. id personally far prefer to be told what im doing wrong, or somewhere i can improve. A small compliment to ones riding style can be fine, but only that, and even then , i think i just have personality issues with accepting praise, and will turn it into humour. mybad.
but yeah, Far more can be done with critism then can be with praise. So dont waste your breath on me, make use of it!.

KK

It's a defensive reaction against NZ's tall poppy syndrome, remember the all blacks a few years back, told to stop being happy that they'd scored a try and to walk calmly back down the field.

Thats probably the reason I don't give or take compliments, in fact not giving is prettystupid if you think about it :(

Lou Girardin

9th July 2004, 06:38

I think that it's hard to quantify one's skill.
I know I'm better now than 3 years ago, but I still don't think I'm that good.
Then I chased an RSV Mille from Kawakawa Bay to Clevedon and stayed with him quite easily. So was he a worse rider than me or what?
It's easier just to say that I'm slow.

6Chris6

9th July 2004, 07:02

[QUOTE=Andrew] comments like: "I'm such a slower rider", or "It's more bike than it is rider", or "I'm not a good rider" etc.
Fact of the matter is, time and time again those who make these comments are really fast/good riders and often there aren't many if any better riders.

Yes, I agree, although i suppose it's better than always claiming to be a fast rider, because lets face it there's ALWAYS someone faster (unless you're Rossi)
But really, there's no need to constantly push a point that pretty much everyone here knows isn't true.
I know from the weekends rides that there are certain riders here are not comfortable riding with as they're too far out of my skill level (Saturdays ride).
And the fact that riding behind a certain ZXR250 and RG150 on sunday and not being able to keep up on my little *cough 600 sports bike cough* was a real eye opener.

White trash

9th July 2004, 07:57

I'm fucken fast. And don't mind saying so. :moon:

Deano

9th July 2004, 08:18

curious george

9th July 2004, 08:26

Well, I have actual proof. 1'30" lap time at Puke. The watch never lies!
*Oh, hang on, no one ever said I was fast..ermmmm bye*

Firefight

9th July 2004, 08:31

Andrew, Indeed you are a deep thinker, I tend to belive that in most cases it is a matter of comparring ones self with others you have ridden with, In my case I do not consider myself to be slow,but I know that there are many faster, better skilled riders than myself, and I am happy to admit that, I find no disgarce being passed by a better rider in a smaller cc bike, and I am happy to acknowledge that to that rider, when I got my second R6, a young guy on this site who you and I have both ridden with, asked me for advice on lines, cornering etc, I did not know what to say, I had to be honest and say go ask some of the track guys , I don't know much about that shit!.While it might have helped my ego, it was short lived, what, if any advice could I have given him ?

Firefight :blink:

Hoon

9th July 2004, 08:48

I think it all depends on your point of view. I read somewhere something that went like:

A fast street rider will be an average track day rider
A fast track day rider will be an average club racer
A fast club racer will be an average nationals racer
A fast nationals racer will be an average international racer
...and so on

So a fast track day rider may seem godly to a typical street rider but will look slow to a fast club racer. Just goes to show all the different size ponds out there.

But yeah I do agree that there is a lot of undeserved ego inflating on these boards but when you get together with other riders over a beer or two out of the public eye then the real truth comes out :)

NordieBoy

9th July 2004, 08:49

It's like with most things.
The more you know about a subject the more you realise you don't know.

I think I'm a slow rider as I see so many areas I can improve in.
Someone else at my speed could think they're fast as they can't see any areas to improve in.

Like me and computers the more I learn the more I see I don't know and I feel like a beginner.
Yet people pay me to fix theirs.

It's all about perception and levels.

If you havn't seen the next level then you may think you're at the top.

Oh, and I really am slow.
But I've never ridden with anynoe else to see how much slower...

Hitcher

9th July 2004, 08:51

I thought the Primary Directive for motorcyclists was to arrive home alive and unscathed...

phase

9th July 2004, 08:53

Well, I have actual proof. 1'30" lap time at Puke. The watch never lies!
*Oh, hang on, no one ever said I was fast..ermmmm bye*

1'30"? That's nothing, I was doing 1'35"s, all wobbling round the corners. Shit, I'm surprised I didn't fall off and get run over.

Drunken Monkey

9th July 2004, 09:02

1'30"? That's nothing, I was doing 1'35"s, all wobbling round the corners. Shit, I'm surprised I didn't fall off and get run over.

dude, I've seen people jog around Puke faster than that :P

vifferman

9th July 2004, 09:10

A fast street rider will be an average track day rider
A fast track day rider will be an average club racer
A fast club racer will be an average nationals racer
A fast nationals racer will be an average international racer
...and so on
And a fast bench racer will be faster than ... ?

FROSTY

9th July 2004, 09:23

[QUOTE=Hoon]I think it all depends on your point of view. I read somewhere something that went like:

A fast street rider will be an average track day rider
A fast track day rider will be an average club racer
A fast club racer will be an average nationals racer
A fast nationals racer will be an average international racer
...and so on

So a fast track day rider may seem godly to a typical street rider but will look slow to a fast club racer. Just goes to show all the different size ponds out there.

Thanks Hoon you said what I wanted too but so much better.
It really is all down to who you are comparing yourself to
I see so many talented riders out there who amaze me with their fluidity on the bike.That and the mind numbing speeds they attain.
I believe that the moment you stop reaching upwards,stop comparing yourself to those with a higher level of skill than yourself is the day you stop growing -as a person and a rider.
Tall poppy syndrome aside I think the people you are speaking of andrew generally are humble in their skills.

Jackrat

9th July 2004, 09:54

Possibly because we hear so many stories about guys who consider themselves fast, and we snigger at them (or tell them outright that they are full of shit), and so we don't want to be tarred with the same brush, therefore modesty is the best policy.

Also, as mentioned earlier, there is always someone (or a lot of people) faster than you are, and if you boast about your skills, then get dicked on the road/track, you look like a right prat.

I don't consider myself that fast, especially compared to some of the hoons I ride with, but I don't do slow either.

I think this is probably close to the mark,and that tall poppy thing as well.
As for me I know I'm slow,not because I say so but because others do.
Mind you the guys I ride with are all better than me.They all ride faster bikes than me(just about everybody does)and they all ride harder than me.
I,m happy to be considered slow.Unless the other guy is on a Kawasaki W650 or 70s British, that's a different story an I'm stickin' with it.

Ms Piggy

9th July 2004, 09:55

It's a defensive reaction against NZ's tall poppy syndrome, remember the all blacks a few years back, told to stop being happy that they'd scored a try and to walk calmly back down the field.

Thats probably the reason I don't give or take compliments, in fact not giving is prettystupid if you think about it :(
That's something I find really annoying...I'm with Wari on this one.

In fact I almost get insulted when someone I give a compliment to rejects it & talk themselves down. I find it really unappealing. Arrogance is just as gross though. I mean no-one wants to be a big head but it's ok to be happy with yourself too. :2thumbsup

Paul in NZ

9th July 2004, 09:55

Is this a case of "In the kingdom of the blind, a one eyed man is king"?

Or is the problem more a case of diversity?

How many of the people on this forum are regular track riders that can supply lap times on near identical bikes? Not enough to supply a decent sample I'll bet.. Racing identical bikes around the same track on the same day a number of times might supply the answer. Maybe the measure of success for a racer is the number of races you have won? Things like selecting a class you have a chance in, luck, bike availability are all factors as well.. Hells teeth the Guzzi is the ONLY bike I have ever owned that has shit like electric starting and disk brakes (still making my mind up about them too). I have ridden a few bikes on the track but it would take me a while to get used to them to put up worthwhile times surely.. That just makes me a unfamiliar with modern bikes rider, not a bad rider...

The vast majority of us are street riders. Surely the measure of success here is surviving? I can ride shit loads faster than I do but I would loose my license in an hour and possibly die. Too many variables in bike type and capability. Could you honestly say that any competent rider of a modern 400cc and above sport bike could not clean me up on my old 650cc triumph?

Yet who is surprised when I can pass a full dresser HD on mt TR6C in the twisties? Many variables...

So.. Whats my honest assesment of my skill level?

Competent for the road riding I do. Why? Because I'm still alive to type this. I am a little too agressive / arrogant and tend to be a show off in some circumstances. In short, I am a normal, competent road rider. I have done track days on my 25 year old Guzzi and been faster than some and humiliated by others... What I learned was, it was a lot of fun, but I'm not a racer...

Thinking you are a very good rider or acting like a racer on the road is the first step to disaster! The more chances you take, the harder the world will try to present you with a hazard to match your ego and then it's plain down to luck! You are a damn fool if you confuse luck with skill....

I ride on the road. Ego has no place on the road...

Paul N

FROSTY

9th July 2004, 09:59

holey cow paul that was well said. :2thumbsup

MikeL

9th July 2004, 10:33

The fact that I ride too fast proves that I'm not a fast rider...
:bleh:

Zed

9th July 2004, 11:05

...
I don't think I'm the only one who has found this among riders. So it would be interesting to hear your takes on why fast riders seam to put themselves down. :2guns:

Any ideas???
It could well be Andrew that those "fast" riders as you call them actually think they are slow by their own standards, while you think they are fast by your own standards! :crazy:

Do you consider yourself to be a fast rider? I've only riden with you once and by my standards you are.

Zed

Motoracer

9th July 2004, 11:20

I have given up on modesty as I have learnt that it doesn't get you very far in life. However I always try my best not to be an arrogant cocky prick.

On the road, I have always said that I am pretty quick. I know that there are faster riders out there but that's fine. There is always going to be someone faster.

These days, I have been saying, "I am not that fast" or "I have been real slack and I need to train hard". This is only for the track. It is true that I am not that fast on the track and I need to put a real hard effort into it if I truly want to become fast (I don't need encouragement from anyone either, telling me that I am fast for the track because on the track, results matter and it is always crystal clear).

I am not going to try any harder on the road though. Riders like White Trash are faster than me on the road while being safe at the same time. I don't want to go outside my comfort zone just to see if I can keep up with them. I have nothing to prove on the road. It isn't worth it. Once I gain lots of experience and then skill with time, speed will eventually come on its own (hopefully).

Edit: I am wrong about the encouragement bit. It is always nice to get encouragements. I really do appreciate all the nice things that all you people have said and it actually really does help. Thank you :)

scroter

9th July 2004, 12:55

i think the guys your talking about all have people thay know that they think yeah there fast too. Motoracer said it well. dont worry about the speed, just be smooth and relaxed and the speed will deal with itself. I agree with you andrew about those guys Two Smoke hes quick but watch him hes very smooth jeez he even crashes smooth. I think im average and i got lapped by WT on friday on the smae bikes

Andrew

9th July 2004, 13:28

It could well be Andrew that those "fast" riders as you call them actually think they are slow by their own standards, while you think they are fast by your own standards! :crazy:

Do you consider yourself to be a fast rider? I've only riden with you once and by my standards you are.

Zed

A good point Zed. There are all these different standards which define "fast". There are some riders here that would call 110k's fast even though they're on bikes capable of doing well in excess of 250kph. I consider myself a mid-fast rider, but most of all I ride to a speed at which I have most fun. :niceone:

Mongoose

9th July 2004, 13:30

Possibly because we hear so many stories about guys who consider themselves fast, and we snigger at them (or tell them outright that they are full of shit), and so we don't want to be tarred with the same brush, therefore modesty is the best policy.
I don't consider myself that fast, especially compared to some of the hoons I ride with, but I don't do slow either.

Have you noticed how mnay *Fast* riders have all their best rides alone? Or are the nut cases prepared to overtake where no sane person would and therefore clam to be " Faster, better, quicker" than anyone else? :yes:

scumdog

9th July 2004, 13:34

I thought the Primary Directive for motorcyclists was to arrive home alive and unscathed...

Me too Mr H, thats why I ride a Harley and ride it modestly :banana: :D

Tried a VFR a couple of years ago - too quick for this boy, I'd end up dead or licence-less :doh:

DEATH_INC.

9th July 2004, 13:55

I'm fucken fast. And don't mind saying so. :moon:
I guess I am too.But every time I think I'm getting really fast :first: ,I ride with someone and they kick my ass :third: ......so then I guess I'm slow again :thud: .....F**k it,I'll just stick to doing wheelies :banana: .....

Two Smoker

9th July 2004, 14:22

I guess I am too.But every time I think I'm getting really fast :first: ,I ride with someone and they kick my ass :third: ......so then I guess I'm slow again :thud: .....F**k it,I'll just stick to doing wheelies :banana: .....
LMAO, and we all know your the king of wheelies..... :niceone:

Well what can i say..... My lap times are in the low 1:20's (both dry and wet) and if i get below 1:20 i will consider myself to be fastish, this is the time that Nicko set on the RG150, and i know hes bloody fast......

If you cant find improvements in your riding skill, then you have reached the limit and will not go any faster... I have shitloads of improving to do, for instance Scroter said that i was smooth, where i think i can be a hell of alot smoother......

I dont have my best rides by myself, i have my best rides with faster riders (only a couple riding at the same time) as they improve me...... I also dont want to be big headed and say "yeah im the shit and fucking fast" if i was doing 60 second lap times around puke on a 600 or in MotoGP then i would consider myself to be fast.....

But yes, MR and KK are fast, and both are reasonably fast on the track (well KK is bloody fast considering the hunk of shit he's riding lol), where Hoon is fast on the track but takes it easy on the road.....

And Andrew Mate your fast :niceone:

Milky

9th July 2004, 15:15

Thinking you are a very good rider or acting like a racer on the road is the first step to disaster! The more chances you take, the harder the world will try to present you with a hazard to match your ego and then it's plain down to luck! You are a damn fool if you confuse luck with skill....

I ride on the road. Ego has no place on the road...

Paul N
Couldn't have said it better myself - motorcycles can kill you without warning, and all the fast, smooth, knee down action wont make you able to avoid a car on the wrong side of the road or diesel round a blind corner, even a tractor not seeing you and pulling out... Me for one will be waiting until I have the time and money to get into bucket racing before I push myself much further. On the road I enjoy the scenery, the flowing motion inherent in motorcycling, and say a quiet prayer every time I make the commute to uni/work unscathed in the morning ;)
I have no desire to be considered a fast rider, and definitely dont consider myself as such. I know that somewhere out there, there are people much quicker than me. If, by some stroke of luck, this isnt the case, then my next stop is Moto GP :first:

Wenier

9th July 2004, 15:21

the way i see it for me in my car or bike is i am an average rider if someone says im fast i shrug it off as i dont want to get big headed and cocky cus then ill think im the shit and ill go out and fuck it up. Now where is the fun in bein told ya fast then crashing by pushin it that bit more. Jus go wit wut u feel is safe and that is generally fast but there will always be someone else out there who is faster!

Paul in NZ

9th July 2004, 15:39

I consider myself a mid-fast rider, but most of all I ride to a speed at which I have most fun. :niceone:

Exactly....

It's when you try to ride at a speed that others find 'fun' that it all comes unglued.. This is the reason us Guzzi riders always ride alone....

(everyone else falls off at walking pace)

Paul N

FROSTY

9th July 2004, 15:51

I
These days, I have been saying, "I am not that fast" or "I have been real slack and I need to train hard". This is only for the track. It is true that I am not that fast on the track and I need to put a real hard effort into it if I truly want to become fast (I don't need encouragement from anyone either, telling me that I am fast for the track because on the track, results matter and it is always crystal clear).

Edit: I am wrong about the encouragement bit. It is always nice to get encouragements. I really do appreciate all the nice things that all you people have said and it actually really does help. Thank you :)

Encouragement is always good mate -especially when it comes from someone you respect :spudbooge
Constructive criticism rocks too --like I was getting from Dougie
"You're slow exiting #$$# corner - try going wider on the entry "
Sometimes its easier to assess when ya aint in the hot seat
Reading this thread has made me aware of a character flaw in me -I can't take a compliment -If someone says I ride well Im waiting for the "Nah joking actually you ride like shit"

Big Dog

9th July 2004, 16:11

I think modesty in such a dangerous sport is also what keeps you alive and in the sport long enough to be considered good as the know it alls never learn from those around them.

If you open your mouth too often it will eventually write a cheque your body can't cash.

Most of the self proclaimed fast riders I knew ten years ago have not ridden in at least 8.

Big Dog

9th July 2004, 16:13

Also I think it takes real knowledge to accept you have a lot to learn.

I think it takes real confidence to admit it.

Kwaka-Kid

9th July 2004, 16:22

I'm fucken fast. And don't mind saying so. :moon:
WT - this thread was about bikes, not your problems with the wife, but its bold of you to admit such a problem :Pokey:

Anyway moving on.. (hehe sorry WT!) alot of good info has been thrown here.. and very interesting info... With more thought, id like to say can we please scrub KK from everywhere it says fast!.. all things are relative, in this instance.. im looking at fast over years experience... Ive been riding street bikes what? 3 years! TS has barely been riding 6 months and is faster/if he doesnt claim that just as fast!!, Shaede has been riding barely 6 months and just as fast! PuTMan has been riding the same time and just as fast! And you too andrew, have not been riding so long and from what i see are just as fast (but like putman, are somewhat limited by worn machinery)... Ive also had exp scince i was like what? 10 or 11 on the dirt, most weekends, so whats that say 8 years riding exp? and theres a sub6month old thats just as fast?

Now you go figure whos fast, or at least going to be fast.
tell yah, at 6months road experience i was still busy putting around commute style, prolly much hte way milky thinks he is - but i dont lie when i say milky would have been faster.

And like others say, its hard to judge, what u cal lfast etc etc, but the way i reason TS/Shade/Andrew as being fast is by their limited exp yet meeting my judgement of fast...

Lastly id like to say we ought watch Putman... definatly on the worst bike out there(250 dragging a cylander, untill dad/i balanced carbs the other night - and shit me one cylander was blocked off!)... keeping up with the front runners on the way back from taht ride? and ill admit - at least by my standerds that wasnt a slow ride up front on the way back... and The kid hasnt even had his first spill - and doesnt look to be in for one? Good on yah nick, just keep it upright, i reckon this means u got a large buffer of speed still left! cant wait to see you on the track sometime"

Mongoose

9th July 2004, 16:23

Exactly....

It's when you try to ride at a speed that others find 'fun' that it all comes unglued.. This is the reason us Guzzi riders always ride alone....

(everyone else falls off at walking pace)

Paul N

Yeah, well, errrm, Mr Paul in NZ, all can say is if you ride at walking pace you should be a skinny boy by now cause that is some big strides you take at your *walking pace* :bleh:

Kwaka-Kid

9th July 2004, 16:25

If you open your mouth too often it will eventually write a cheque your body can't cash.
Shit... Mine never closes though :(

Big Dog

9th July 2004, 16:49

[QUOTE=Big Dog]If you open your mouth too often it will eventually write a cheque your body can't cash.QUOTE]

Shit... Mine never closes though :(
Yeah but when this is a known quantity it is less of a problem. Eg none of us would take the risk on presenting one :Pokey:

Posh Tourer :P

9th July 2004, 18:34

Telling yourself you arent fast is one of the best motivations for improvement.... Thus those who are *driven* to be faster (ie believe/ say they are slow) are going to be faster than if they were happy with their speed/thought they were fast. This is probably only a part of it though.

Logo, did you have anyone fast to ride with when you were putting around? I know I putted around for a long while, as there was no-one for me to compare myself to... Once chris started riding I've managed to push myself a little further, and as he improved, I had to! I dont ride a fast bike because it would only lead to me giving more money to the govt... and this was convenient and practical. I'll push the bike I have to it's limits for fun occasionally, and thats enough for me. Looking for new challenges, such as gravel roads, also keeps things interesting.

I consider myself average, cautious and relatively experienced, but I can see many areas where I could be far better more consistently....

Two Smoker

9th July 2004, 18:59

Well ive had a good long think about it, and yep i still reakon im slow.....

Kwaka-Kid

9th July 2004, 19:01

hey martin - ummm... i guess not? i rode scenic drive with dad on his GS1000 a number of times and a few westie streets, but only prolly a total of 4-5times ever... untill KB, i was just a commuter. And dad ALWAYS hung back with me, like fully kept me well within sight in his rear views, so i guess i never saw how much faster they could go - untill more recently (since i been KB/ possibly racing) and now im like "yeah well u didnt exactly show me that shit before now did yah!" Swear he hinderd im learning processes, or maybe just kept me alive for longer.

Two Smoker

9th July 2004, 19:04

and now im like "yeah well u didnt exactly show me that shit before now did yah!" Swear he hinderd im learning processes, or maybe just kept me alive for longer.
LOL, i had a chat to Wkid about that, i said i reakoned that i would be dead or and invalid before im 20, he said "nnaaaaah mate.........."

"way before then" :lol: Sad thing is, hes probably right :crybaby:

FROSTY

9th July 2004, 19:05

hey KK --good onya dad for wanting to keep his son alive awile longer :bleh:

Kwaka-Kid

9th July 2004, 19:06

no way dude! keep it turned down a notch, take it easy and keep concentrating, you show the gift but need the experience!

FzerozeroT

9th July 2004, 19:06

a lot of people will never go as fast as they could, - kids, the mortgage, partner, why some people take risks others won't. If i zone then i ride until i slide, i wouldlike to be good enough to show off, but instead i'm the guy that people say, he goes fast, not he is fast.

Kwaka-Kid

9th July 2004, 23:01

XJ- i still reckon he made a mistake, hell i bet hed even admit to it :P
More importantly watch that TS boy, Youll be right mate, just keep that margin for error man! Hold back for the track then give it death (hell even on the track i have a fairly large margin for error, spose thats what slows me down loads too).

And i been thinking, i dont know about this whole modesty idea, i am slow, and yet i know im not modest..? Prove it? k, go on, ask me if i got a big...

scumdog

9th July 2004, 23:40

When your body aches like mine does just getting out of bed in the morning the thought of how much it must hurt when you crash is enough to make me ride slow, - 'course 8 bourbons into me and I'll tell you of physics-defying rides that were so fast that nobody had a chance to see them (and it's not the bedroom I'm talking about either) :bleh:

DEATH_INC.

10th July 2004, 07:03

I know that feeling well...(the aches ect..)
I reckon the biggest limiting factor is your 'safety zone'.I think how close to the edge you are willing to ride determines how fast you'll go,and your perception of this closeness is what makes the difference.
I get a lot of comments from those I ride with about my riding(esp draco...)when they consider I'm nearing the edge,but often I don't feel like I am.TS is prolly a good example too,draggin stuff round corners ect but still feelin safe,yet the next guy thinks he's pushing it leaning over 20deg.....the limit is still the same,but the 'zone' is different....
This is also why a lot of fast guys don't think they're that fast,if you're going really fast,but well within your comfort zone you really don't feel like you're going that fast.....

scroter

10th July 2004, 12:33

if you think all those guys are fast and they keep saying there slow would it be OK if i said im fast. well like those other guys im lying...... oh ther being modest, my mistake.

Skyryder

10th July 2004, 18:26

Two Smoker

10th July 2004, 19:12

I thought all the the 'fast' riders were dead or maimed. When it comes to choice it's all about fast and dead or slow and alive. Put like that: is there a choice. Like I said once before it's keeping the edge under control. Lose it and you will loose it.

Skyryder
Yes that is true to a degree, but the ones mentioned, including myself, are track racers as well...... Thats where fast really counts, and if you dont risk it, you lose it (ie the race)

Sensei

10th July 2004, 21:02

I beleave if you ride to your skill & don't get dragged along at some one else's speed that's past your own riding level , you shouldn't get into to much trouble Sensei :apint:

Two Smoker

10th July 2004, 21:07

I beleave if you ride to your skill & don't get dragged along at some one else's speed that's past your own riding level , you shouldn't get into to much trouble Sensei :apint:
Yep thats good, if you are happy with your riding ability, but if you want to increaase your skill/ability you need to be dragged along by someone better.....

wkid_one

10th July 2004, 21:07

I am a slow rider - everyone keeps saying I am!!

Who cares.....I would be one of the quicker at putting a wounded bike in the back of a van tho!

wkid_one

10th July 2004, 21:09

Yep thats good, if you are happy with your riding ability, but if you want to increaase your skill/ability you need to be dragged along by someone better.....
I agree C - I improved my riding no end by following KiwiDan, who was well above my ability - it pushed my limits and showed me that my mental limits are WELL within the limits of the bike.

I am a firm believer that you need to push your limits to improve at everything, not just biking.

Fluffy Cat

10th July 2004, 21:49

It's real simple,ride your bike,ride your bike,ride it lots.Don't worry about other people just keep riding and your skill base will improve.Who cares whos faster,Just ride....

Motoracer

10th July 2004, 22:17

Kwaka-Kid

10th July 2004, 22:47

It's real simple,ride your bike,ride your bike,ride it lots.Don't worry about other people just keep riding and your skill base will improve.Who cares whos faster,Just ride....
Exactly! lets all stop talking, and start riding! that way we will get faster, cu! -out ot ride.. wait, a little dark, thats my excuse, wait till tomorrow!

FROSTY

11th July 2004, 00:53

Skyryder

11th July 2004, 14:27

It's real simple,ride your bike,ride your bike,ride it lots.Don't worry about other people just keep riding and your skill base will improve.Who cares whos faster,Just ride....

You got if FC. If any rider tries to keep up with someone who knows the road better than themeselves then sure as yellow mustard they will find that custard is the same colour. Get to know the road and then find out what you have got. Learnt that years ago.

Skyryder

Posh Tourer :P

11th July 2004, 14:58

You got if FC. If any rider tries to keep up with someone who knows the road better than themeselves then sure as yellow mustard they will find that custard is the same colour. Get to know the road and then find out what you have got. Learnt that years ago.
Skyryder

Unless you wouldnt normally push your limits, or even get close to them. many people will learn to ride, and stay at that level, just because they dont see that they should or need to improve. I'd prefer to follow someone who has the same knowledge of the road as me, but it a better rider. If they are going too much faster, I'll let them go, but if not, I'll watch how they approach things and evaluate it compared to my style and what sort of comfort margins I am prepared to leave myself. Learning by observation, because just with learning by doing, you rarely innovate unless you try to conciously. It is much quicker to pick up tips from others and share advice..

Sensei

11th July 2004, 20:58

Thanks 2Smoker back at ya . Hope I to get a chance to rided with you some day . Have'nt riden with a 150cc bike before . Maybe that's the your secret why you are so fast . Or have you repowered it with a RG500 Gramma motor ? & not told anyone yet. Keep up the good work > "An old ace will alway's beat your Pace " Was told to me by my Mentor & riding Buddy he's 50. This guy has alot of respect from all us so call quick rider's here as he is fucken ballistic on any bike he rides, Sensei :second:

MadDuck

11th July 2004, 21:14

Well we all know I am the ultimate in slow. Yep there is no refuting it and thats quite ok in my book cos someone has to be :yes:

When I am lobbing along at 140kms (yes limit to get licence revoked and walk home) and someone flies past me like they need to be somewhere real quick then so be it! I will never try to keep up and I will never ride the bike beyond my abilities.

Met up with some KBers on Saturday at Wellsford and told them not to wait for me as I am quite happy pottering. The view coming over SH16 looking at the Kaipara was something to take my breathe away. How can you see that going at manic (but controlled I will add) speeds. I guess it depends what you want out of your riding in the end. I ride for enjoyment not to see how fast I can go.

Kwaka-Kid

11th July 2004, 21:49

meh - i dont really go for the scenery! but more for the feel of the bike.
I will say Shaede and i did a round of old north and peaks today! woohoo in his new leathers! Even took the gloss off a slider, shit that was some well paced and smooth riding - for a guy with legs shorter then my coffee tables and not the best flexibility man does that bike have to crank right the way over!... and he thinks hes slow? :o

Motoracer

11th July 2004, 22:22

Me on Slob's FZR400, Slob on his XR600, Andrew on his ZXR and BB on his f*cking nice MV Agusta went up north too for a short blat in the late afternoon.

I just have to say, Andrew mate, you'v come a long way from when I first rode with you. You've become so much faster and better, its just great to see. It was really cool seeing you getting your knee down too. That's something I am not used to seeing, as you never even hung off the bike much way back then. Now you are ready to join our lil group of knee down riders (Me, TS, CK and others...) :Punk:

Another real quick KB rider who isn't talked about much is Slob (my bro). F*ck, on knobblies he was just going hard out! Once he completes the Super Moto conversion, I reckon he's gunna smoke us all (no bull!) in the twisties :stoogie:

FROSTY

11th July 2004, 23:42

Kwaka-Kid

12th July 2004, 05:21

NordieBoy

12th July 2004, 09:10

When I am lobbing along at 140kms (yes limit to get licence revoked and walk home) and someone flies past me like they need to be somewhere real quick then so be it! I will never try to keep up and I will never ride the bike beyond my abilities.

I lob along at 110 and if it's a short straight between some nice twisties I may get up to 120.

The bike's only geared for 150 max.

But that's the fun of motards.

You don't have to slow down much.

A bit like the 150cc bikes then but with more power :D

Motu

12th July 2004, 10:23

I had an interesting convo with a mate of mine tonite. He's from the Grahem Crosby era.
He was talking to cros about corners and finding limits -how hard to push and all that racer stuff.
Cros -calm as mind you said-- Well ya see ill go out in practice and push it into a corner till I run off (crash basicly) then I just subtract 5% and ride the corner that hard.
And you guys think we ride hard--sheesh

That's how I used to practice on the dirt track - faster and faster and faster then crash,pick it up and do it again,and again,if I didn't crash at least half a dozen times at practice I reckoned I wasn't pushing hard enough.Come race day and you can get pretty close to the limit - but you don't win if you fall off eh?

DEATH_INC.

12th July 2004, 13:22

That's how I used to practice on the dirt track - faster and faster and faster then crash,pick it up and do it again,and again,if I didn't crash at least half a dozen times at practice I reckoned I wasn't pushing hard enough.Come race day and you can get pretty close to the limit - but you don't win if you fall off eh?
Yep,me too!but I often usta forget not to fall off racing....."Win or crash trying" Bob Hannah,No1 supercross rider....

Mongoose

12th July 2004, 17:24

Someone hit it on the head earlier. I think if you want to go fast -forgetting silly passes etc then it is neccassary to move your comfort zone up a notch or two.
From My experience I know that if I have a slow first practice its bloody hard to get into the zone for racing.
I think the same applies to road riding . Its your perception of speed -your bodys ability to take in information and transfer it into action.
I know when Im zoned in properly it seems like ive got all the time in the world to react to all or any situation.
If im not I feel behind the bike and way too slow to react to situations

Right you are XJ, watch a prog on telly that more or less backs up your reasoning. It was to do with car racing and the perception people have of a racers reaction time. They managed to prove that a race drivers reaction time was about the same as anyone elses, it was the ability to absorbed information and translate it to action that was so much quicker. For weekend racers this possibley takes a bit of time to dial the mind in.

Shade

13th July 2004, 18:06

The best way i have learnt is by going for rides with KK all the time, i would follow him and watch his style / line and then try and do what he does - then he would follow me for a bit and watch what im doing and give me some tips etc. Another thing i try to do is sorta see the way him and the bike seem to just flow into corners. Thats probably the most satisfying thing about riding with him, it looks so relaxed and smooth.

When i wasnt too confident in riding, i felt as though i was fighting the bike around corners, and after a ride i would always feel sore and stressed. Every time i would go out for a ride i would always think i was going to crash or something. Even considered getting a car since i didnt seem to be making progress -

These days im alot more relaxed and love riding heaps now, im by no means a good rider, theres always something to learn off KK / others, but i dont feel like im going out riding to crash :)

Motoracer

13th July 2004, 18:12

Firefight

13th July 2004, 18:17

Good on ya Shady! :niceone: Its really cool to hear that you have come such a long way. We'll hopefully catch up on a ride sometime and I'll get to see ya ride.

Its just so cool that KK is organising these rides and things and helping people make the most out of motorcycling. Shade would be a prime example of how KK has been helping others. Good on ya Logan, its really cool what you are doin :niceone:

Yeah good point MR, I think you and I were talking about this just recently, No dobut Logan won't like it being said, but regardless, He is doing a great Job for the newer riders, not just helping with their ride skills, but also helping them work on their bikes, and get them sorted.And setting up good safe rides

Not bad for a westey, good on you KK. :first:

F/F

Two Smoker

13th July 2004, 18:24

Yep too bloody right, KK is simply awesome.... I saw Shade when he had lost his confidence, now after doing heaps of rides with KK, he is right up the front with no problems, KK was also doing this for me after my bin a couple of weeks ago, coz i had lost alot of confidence.... So now i should be sorted :niceone:

And Shade i heard about getting the knee down thing :niceone: congrats and welcome to the club :niceone:

Shade

13th July 2004, 18:31

FROSTY

13th July 2004, 18:33

its great if you can afford to ride like that - as toy learn fast! id love to... I think it was vince sharpe that was hired as a "tyre tester" in aussies wasnt it? go around a track, further and further till they let go etc... wicked experience.
I think I understood Doug and Cros's point thoough.
Practice is for practice -Finding your limits of your brakes and cornering clearance.
Finding lines that are the fastest -
Then finding lines that are "spoiler " lines and making them work.
By spoiler lines I mean lines that don't produce the fastest exit speed or best track position but will put you in front of a guy you are dicing with and maybee give you a workable line into the next corner.
If you crash in practice--its just that -practice. :whocares:

Two Smoker

13th July 2004, 18:33

That wellsford ride behind you and kk helped heaps, was cool seeing you two going round fast corners so effortlessly.

As for the kneedown, cheers, its pretty adictive eh! :)
No worries, will be looking forward to the ride with you and KK on Sunday if you come :niceone:

Two Smoker

13th July 2004, 18:34

I think I understood Doug and Cros's point thoough.
Practice is for practice -Finding your limits of your brakes and cornering clearance.
Finding lines that are the fastest -
Then finding lines that are "spoiler " lines and making them work.
By spoiler lines I mean lines that don't produce the fastest exit speed or best track position but will put you in front of a guy you are dicing with and maybee give you a workable line into the next corner.
If you crash in practice--its just that -practice. :whocares:So my crash at Puke was just a practice crash for future crashes to come????

andy1

13th July 2004, 19:27

TS if ya ride hard, prepare to crash hard!

P.S I hope to ride with ya TS when i get back, rain or :sunny: im a keen knee down sorta rider in the wet myself. But not anymore with my new toy. :devil2:
Seeya.

Kwaka-Kid

13th July 2004, 20:22

*didnt read anything before this!!*
grrr, shaede im gunna come kick yo ass boy! kick it so hard you'll be wanting to find twisty rides to ride on so you can hang it off the seat as it will hurt so damn much to sit!

Its all good, i think everybody heres doing a great job at bringing up different levels of riders!.. cant wait to get out on a nice run down south ways for a change.. which brings me to my next point...

SUNDAY! yes this sunday, morning... 10amISH? whos keen for a ride? Coromandel way? I owe a mate a ride on the back of the bike and was wondering if some KB'ers were interested... im not sure of where exactly, i know 6chris6 is really keen on going futher to waihi etc, i would prolly only do the typical kaiaua loop or whatever, then cruise back, but still have fun, and others can carry on etc...

FROSTY

13th July 2004, 21:12

So my crash at Puke was just a practice crash for future crashes to come????
no me lil mate--but I bet ya wont ride that corner that hard again on cold tyres --better on a practice day than race day aye??
:done: :done:

Andrew

13th July 2004, 21:25

Hey KK can I get your help sometime?? My brake calliper is leaking brake fluid over my discs which obviously ain't good. My braking is crap at the moment.
Would you be able to help me install a brake calliper and bleed the brakes?? Name your price. I'm guessing a doz Reds?? Anyway thanks dude, like everybody says you're the man! :niceone:

Kwaka-Kid

13th July 2004, 22:22

dude thats enough! and there is no price - jsut come over in the morning sometime, we can do it no sweat - what brake fluid u running, and need some to bleed them... Althought i think the problem also lies with your leaky fork seals dude :S That bike as issues.. u may find hte fork oil ends up just as big a problem etc leaking onto the brake pads, which no matter how good/bad calipers are is not going to help them stop. Anyways just PM/bell me sometime dude, we will sort something out!

Firefight

14th July 2004, 04:07

SUNDAY! yes this sunday, morning... 10amISH? whos keen for a ride? Coromandel way? I owe a mate a ride on the back of the bike and was wondering if some KB'ers were interested... im not sure of where exactly, i know 6chris6 is really keen on going futher to waihi etc, i would prolly only do the typical kaiaua loop or whatever, then cruise back, but still have fun, and others can carry on etc...

Yeah think I'd be keen on that KK.

Firefight :sunny:

Coldkiwi

14th July 2004, 12:09

probably can't get enough time out to do the whole coromandel loop on sunday but I'm keen to join you boys for a go around kaiaua/Hunua. Haven't ridden with you clowns for ages and it sounds like there's some good skills coming to the fore!

Hoon

14th July 2004, 12:29

Althought i think the problem also lies with your leaky fork seals dude :S That bike as issues.. u may find hte fork oil ends up just as big a problem etc leaking onto the brake pads!

Yeah Andy if it was your brakes I think you'd know about it pretty quickly. Is your front brake reservoir low? Sniff the oil and see if its fork or brake fluid. If you can't tell wash it away with the garden hose - brake fluid foams white when you spray it off the driveway.

Changing fork seals isn't too hard but a bit time consuming. I'm doing my ZXR400 ones at the mo. Replacement fork seals are only $30 pr.