Drinking Age

[Disco Dan]

Drinking Age.. whats your thoughts?

Should it be raised to 21 ?

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I think it should be raised to 21, drinking is an adult thing; most 18yrolds ive encountered over the years have someway to go before they show maturity that could be said to be 'adult'.

[Hitcher]

Gahhh! It's not the drinking age. It's the legal procurement age. There is no "legal drinking" age.

And yes, it should be left where it is. New Zealand has a problem with its booze culture. If people aren't "grown up" enough to consume alcohol sensibly at 18, it's unlikely they're going to be any different at 21. If people are allowed to vote, marry, fight for their country at age 18, then why shouldn't they be allowed to buy whatever they want as well?

[Coyote]

Under 21s will just find 21+ year olds to buy their drinks for them. It won't change anything

[WarlockNZ]

Gahhh! It's not the drinking age. It's the legal procurement age. There is no "legal drinking" age.

And yes, it should be left where it is. New Zealand has a problem with its booze culture. If people aren't "grown up" enough to consume alcohol sensibly at 18, it's unlikely they're going to be any different at 21. If people are allowed to vote, marry, fight for their country at age 18, then why shouldn't they be allowed to buy whatever they want as well?

Don't give me that shit .. thats the same argument about drinking ages that we have been hearing for years and from countrys all over the world ..

Here's a point .. if you fight for your country .. you are legally allowed to buy and drink alcohol (on base), funny how no one ever mentions that huh ??

Having worked in hospo for years, it was always a hassle trying to keep 18, 19 years olds out of my bar (before the age was lowered) .. once it went to 18... you switched to trying to keep the 16 year olds out.

Your right tho .. NZ has a massive problem with it's "drinking culture" and NO .. 18 year olds are NOT responsible enough to drink .. they have proven this over the last 7 years. look at the stats on teen drinking.

I could go on for hours ... but for now .. i'm :done:

[McJim]

Well this is an old chestnut innit?

Countries with low drinking ages (legal procurement ages for some!) have low alcoholism. Countries with high drinking ages have high alcohol problems.

There's obviously no link nor correlation here - I'm just setting it out there as a fact to chew over.

[WarlockNZ]

Well this is an old chestnut innit?

Countries with low drinking ages (legal procurement ages for some!) have low alcoholism. Countries with high drinking ages have high alcohol problems.

There's obviously no link nor correlation here - I'm just setting it out there as a fact to chew over.

But the fact remains, the good ol NZ has a drinking problem regardless of the legal age. the facts in this case speak for themselves your honour .. since the reduction of the legal age of consumption, alcohol related crime, commited by those under the age of 21 has increased.

Will, increasing the age reduce this, I say yes, yes it will.

I'm sure all of us oldies remember what it was like to be 18, being 6 foot tall and bullet proof is great, now add alcohol to the mix and you are just asking for trouble ... tell you what .. i'll go and hunt down some stats shall I ?

[marc34]

I must admit, i was approaching 18 years old when they brought the age down, and i thought it was christmas come early!!

Now, a few years on, and with the wonderful benefit of hindsight, i was an idiot on the juice at 18, so was everyone i knew, in saying that, i dont think another 3 years would change much for many....

i think i find myself on the fence....

[WarlockNZ]

I must admit, i was approaching 18 years old when they brought the age down, and i thought it was christmas come early!!

Now, a few years on, and with the wonderful benefit of hindsight, i was an idiot on the juice at 18, so was everyone i knew, in saying that, i dont think another 3 years would change much for many....

i think i find myself on the fence....

Welcome to the Site Marc34 .. good to see you weighing in on your second post :)

[Jonny Rotten]

well if they put the age up atleast there wont be any drunk youngins in the bars.....

which means no drunk 18 to 20 year old girls..........better leave it down then

[SN4PD]

Drinking Age.. whats your thoughts?

Should it be raised to 21 ?

-----
I think it should be raised to 21, drinking is an adult thing; most 18yrolds ive encountered over the years have someway to go before they show maturity that could be said to be 'adult'.

You obviously have far too much time on your hands.......... WHO CARES! (You should be riding your bike boy).

[WarlockNZ]

ohh graphs ... i like graphs ..

45564

[WarlockNZ]

well if they put the age up atleast there wont be any drunk youngins in the bars.....

which means no drunk 18 to 20 year old girls..........better leave it down then

ohhh .. hadn't thought about that ... can i change my opinion .. LOL .. just kidding .. :dodge:

[Hitcher]

I like graphs too! (see attached)

And as for raising the "drunkung age", isn't the genie too far out of the bottle (as it were) to try and put it back?

[WarlockNZ]

I like graphs too! (see attached)

And as for raising the "drunkung age", isn't the genie too far out of the bottle (as it were) to try and put it back?

I love that graph .. lol

as for the genie being too long out of the bottle .. i dont think so .. after all genie's live in bottles .. sure there will be an outcry by the under 20/21's .. but at the end of the day, it's like letting your kids watch TV .. if they are good and don't abuse it .. you let them keep doing it .. if they fuck up .. you take it away ...

Take the recent fireworks issue .. next year you will be lucky if you can buy them, why .. because a few stupid people insist on setting fire to shit.

I'm not saying that all 18 -20 years olds are stupid or can't hold their booze . it's the stupid FEW that are fucking it up for the rest of them.

[jrandom]

I like graphs too!

All hail His Noodly Appendage.


If people aren't "grown up" enough to consume alcohol sensibly at 18, it's unlikely they're going to be any different at 21.

Incorrect, old fruit. You may have forgotten what a difference the accumulated experience of an additional sixth of one's lifespan makes between 18 and 21, but for some of us it remains a raw and painful memory.

Personally, I've always held the opinion that the drinking (sorry, procurement) age should be whatever age I am, minus any delta necessary to legalise entry for whoever I'm trying to get drunk enough to have sex with later on.

[SN4PD]

Personally, I've always held the opinion that the drinking (sorry, procurement) age should be whatever age I am, minus any delta necessary to legalise entry for whoever I'm trying to get drunk enough to have sex with later on.

Well said :devil2:

[WarlockNZ]

Personally, I've always held the opinion that the drinking (sorry, procurement) age should be whatever age I am, minus any delta necessary to legalise entry for whoever I'm trying to get drunk enough to have sex with later on.

Cha CHING!! .. LOL

[Lou Girardin]

All the negative stats relating to youth drinking have worsened since 1999. That's enough evidence for me, raise the legal age to 40.
(Driving age too)

[Ixion]

50. Definately needs to be at least 50 . 40 year olds and younger are too immature to drink, or drive.

[Lou Girardin]

Well this is an old chestnut innit?

Countries with low drinking ages (legal procurement ages for some!) have low alcoholism. Countries with high drinking ages have high alcohol problems.

There's obviously no link nor correlation here - I'm just setting it out there as a fact to chew over.

That's because of the wowserish, pinch-faced Protestantism that infects this country. Kids here are taught that alcohol is a rite of passage, they can't touch it till they're 'of age'. So this imbues boozing with the glamour of forbidden fruit.
Meanwhile the Europeans treat alcohol as a part of everyday life. We had wine with our meals at home as early as I can remember. But watered-down for kids. Drinking was never a big deal for us.
It's not just the kids in NZ who have to grow up.

[Grahameeboy]

That's because of the wowserish, pinch-faced Protestantism that infects this country. Kids here are taught that alcohol is a rite of passage, they can't touch it till they're 'of age'. So this imbues boozing with the glamour of forbidden fruit.
Meanwhile the Europeans treat alcohol as a part of everyday life. We had wine with our meals at home as early as I can remember. But watered-down for kids. Drinking was never a big deal for us.
It's not just the kids in NZ who have to grow up.


You are right Lou......there is something to be said for moderate use when younger like you mentioned so they don't then goi all out for it when they reach the legal age.
I guess the other issues is how the drinking age affects drinking and driving stats. Is is better to raise the limit? If so would this have a favourable effect of young drink drivers.

[BAD DAD]

Age limits are always too much of a generalisation when what we need but can't have is "maturity" limits The thing to remember whatever age you are when you are drinking, is that someone younger ( I really mean less mature ) is almost bound to be watching how you are drinking and being influenced by what they see.

[Wasp]

I've recently turned 18.

Honestly so long as I can go into a bar with everyone else after a ride I dont care.

Raise the wholesale age of alcohol (places like the mill, super markets, liqour land etc) to 20/21 but just let me go into a bar with the older guys after the group ride.

or would you older guys rather go to maccas or burger king after rides from now on?

[Ixion]

You can sit outside the door, with a raspberry cordial.

(I'm just teasing you. They'll let you in if you promise to stick to shandy :Punk:)

[SN4PD]

or would you older guys rather go to maccas or burger king after rides from now on?

You a pansy or smthin :shit:

[Wasp]

You a pansy or smthin :shit:
nope, just saying if they do raise the age to get into bars then I'd have to stop going on all the group rides down here or go back to "sneaking" in like i was before i was 18.

only got caught out once anyway, was about my 4th visit to the bristol in town (the night lias came down to visit), pretty much got told to fuck off but i just sat down at the outside table/chairs while insanity_rules found lias in the pub then the bouncer came over and said very sternly that he'd let me stay but if any cops came i had to take off. so i sat there all, couldnt buy any food or anything. i didnt even want to buy a beer as me and ir had our bikes with us and would be riding home before 10.

once again, the problem in my eyes is the easy availability of alcohol to people around and below the 18yo mark. get rid of wholesale and you'd knock off atleast 50% of the problems.

[heavenly.talker]

get rid of wholesale and you'd knock off atleast 50% of the problems.

This is a very good idea Wasp :yes:
Tell us more.

[SN4PD]

once again, the problem in my eyes is the easy availability of alcohol to people around and below the 18yo mark. get rid of wholesale and you'd knock off atleast 50% of the problems.

Just got off the phone to Auntie Helen, she saw your eloquent post on KB and is going to put it to the policy comity tomorrow, all this waste of bandwidth hasn't been a futility :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


Seriously guys, you lot are a crackup :laugh:

[James Deuce]

Raise it to whatever you want, it isn't going to stop the REAL problem drinkers from getting pissed and roving around in groups that behave like a congealing amoeba.

14-16 year olds are the "problem" that is supposedly being addressed by the drinking age.

Warlock you;re shitting me right? That's the same argument that gets trotted out for everything that needs public reinforcement of a political argument with no substance.

A minority go through a high visibility system like a hospital or Police arrest records so raising the age/increasing the detterent must be the only way to go. You see a minority of people come through hospital so the people who use the product as intended must be punished too?

[James Deuce]

once again, the problem in my eyes is the easy availability of alcohol to people around and below the 18yo mark. get rid of wholesale and you'd knock off atleast 50% of the problems.
No! Move it entirely back to the wholesalers, remove it from Dairies and Supermarkets and then police the damn wholesalers. Accountability at point of sale.

[terbang]

Yeah but I'm worried about those pirates. It aint just muskets and sabres. Have you seen those guys nowadays, they pack .50 cals and rockets and ...?
Bloody global warming, Al Gore for president.. Umm, does he drink too..

[gamgee]

yeah I agree with the split drinking age, 18 to get into the pubs, 20 to buy takeaways, it means that in most cases, 18 year olds will still be able to get a 20 year old to buy for them, but they'll more than likely be going to the same place to drink it, whereas, I don't know many 16 year olds getting round with 20 year olds...

[Motu]

No! Move it entirely back to the wholesalers, remove it from Dairies and Supermarkets and then police the damn wholesalers. Accountability at point of sale.

I was 20 when they dropped the legal age from 21 to 20.....but I still looked like a 16 year old and got asked for ID,I needed to be with big mates they were too scared to question.

But back in those days you could only get beer at the pub wholesale,and they were staffed by crusty old guys with big red noses reading the 8 O'clock or Best Bets,you didn't stand a hope in hell of getting booze off them.But you could still get beer,there were always kids who at 18 looked much older,same as some 16 years can look older than 18.

It's a culture thing - we got away from the 6 O'clock swill and into the Booze Barn era,now real men can drink wine and spirits....but we are into another phase.This binge drinking is kinda like extreme sports,we have people who just have to do more,and others who will follow....

[Dai]

Gahhh! It's not the drinking age. It's the legal procurement age. There is no "legal drinking" age.

And yes, it should be left where it is. New Zealand has a problem with its booze culture. If people aren't "grown up" enough to consume alcohol sensibly at 18, it's unlikely they're going to be any different at 21. If people are allowed to vote, marry, fight for their country at age 18, then why shouldn't they be allowed to buy whatever they want as well?

In Europe 18 years of age is quite old. In most countries its 16 years old to drink. The difference there is that they are raised in a society where alcohol is part of a social culture. They start drinking in moderation at an early age and here is the rub

THEY ARE EDUCATED as to the uses of alcohol

The answer is not prohibition but education.

If the age is raised to 20 or 21 it will not be long before thgose bleeding heart doo gooders start complaining about those age groups abusing alcohol and that the age should be 25 or higher.

A slow erosion of rights so hard fought for by those people who know whats good for us. We are slowly having all choices taken away from us.

[scumdog]

Under 21s will just find 21+ year olds to buy their drinks for them. It won't change anything

True, that was always the case anyway - but back when 21 and 20 was the lagal age for drinking in public you didn't have drunk 18 year olds (and younger) standing brazenly at the street corners hurling abuse and empty stubbies at people, or 16 year olds lining up to get into nightclubs using false I.D. etc etc - just don't get me going about youngster and drink and their behaviour and the consequences, argghh!:angry:

[scumdog]

A minority go through a high visibility system like a hospital or Police arrest records so raising the age/increasing the detterent must be the only way to go. You see a minority of people come through hospital so the people who use the product as intended must be punished too?



Hmmm, like the minority who put using fireworks in jeopardy, or the minority that cause Councils to put liquor bans in place ot the minority who... the list is pretty big - hell, ONE man (David Gray) got gun laws harshened up.

EDIT: In case nobody has figured it out: it's not the number of people that are screwing up - it's the number of people that THEY are screwing up and pissing off that makes the difference.

[Squeak the Rat]

I was getting into nightclubs at 16yrs old (sometimes), so what's changed?

To answer my own question, when we blagged our way into a nightclub we were usually quite discreet, acknowledging that we were doing bad and therefore tried to keep reasonably sane.

I grew up in South Auckland though, so shit that I see on the street elsewhere these days isn't really anything new to me. The bad just spreads out like a cancer i guess......

[James Deuce]

Hmmm, like the minority who put using fireworks in jeopardy, or the minority that cause Councils to put liquor bans in place ot the minotiy who... the list is pretty big - hell, ONE man (David Gray) got gun laws harshened up.

Absolutely and it is getting tiresome. There was a suggestion on the weekend that I was behaving inappropriately with my kids at Huia pool on the weekend. Where does it stop mate?

[scumdog]

I was getting into nightclubs at 16yrs old (sometimes), so what's changed?

To answer my own question, when we blagged our way into a nightclub we were usually quite discreet, acknowledging that we were doing bad and therefore tried to keep reasonably sane.......

THAT is one real truism, I was the same, got a half-doz and away out to the stockyards, riverbank or where-ever, well away from the public and cops and kept a wary eye out in case we got busted.:dodge:

Crikey, if Sgt Jack got you? - the beer was gone, your arse was kicked and woe and doom when you got home and the old man found out - sounds like some sort of fantasy world compared to today.

[adiddy]

mmmm gotta be 18, at that age we r going to university or have full time jobs!
meh im 18 and if it went up it wouldnnt harm me to much..
if 18's cant buy alcohol i think we would et alot ore using marijuana etc...
Its aint hard to get hold of a fake i.d. aswell i know smeone who was 17 and was using a 22year olds :yes:

[Biohazard]

I like graphs too! (see attached)

And as for raising the "drunkung age", isn't the genie too far out of the bottle (as it were) to try and put it back?

so your saying (quote graph) that the number of pirates is reducing due to global warming then ?????

[Motu]

. The difference there is that they are raised in a society where alcohol is part of a social culture.


And alcohol is not part of the New Zealand culture? How young do they start drinking in New Zealand? A house up the road from me puts out a 200 litre drum of bottles,and lines up boxes 4 wide and 3 high - that in a shit load of beer for one household in anyones country.

[Ixion]

Is not all this angst about the "drinking age" (it's not even actually the procurement age, it's the "legal to sell to" age) missing the point.

The point is not someone selling alcohol. Or a person of any age buying alcohol. or even a person of any age drinking alcohol. the actual PROBLEM is people drinking alcohol beyond what they can handle, and doing stupid shit as a result.

And it is perceived that a disproportionate number of young people are thus affected (except by jim Anderton , who thinks the problem is all about old age pensioners hitting the sherry)

So if thats's the PROBLEM why not address the PROBLEM. Restrictions on selling the stuff may make it a little more difficult for youffs to obtain- but that just adds to the challenge and proves that you're grown up when you do get hold of the stuff.

Restore the old law making it an offence to be intoxicated in a public place. And the one about "children in need of care and protection". And other such similar enactments. And make it an offence for parents to knowingly allow their children to be under the influence of liquor. Address the actual problem. And allow sensible young people (and old age pensioners) to have a drink in moderation. As most of them do.

Why should anyone except wowsers care if someone of any age has a drink, provided it's not causing problems to anyone. As Mr Giradin says, civilised countries 10 and 12 years olds have a glass of watered wine with their meal.

Are we seriously proposing that a 19 year old should not be able to have a glass of wine with HIS meal , in a restaurant?

[Bend-it]

What's the betthat all the ones who voted for, are above 21 and the ones who voted against are below 21? :)

[James Deuce]

Yeah, thanks Bend-It remind me to automatically oppose anything that entrusts teenagers with a modicum of personal responsibility in future.

Raise the drinking age to 40. THat's about when you can't hack the effects of a decent hangover well enough to cope with a day at work.

[jrandom]

Last weekend, I put vodka in my kids' lemonade.

It was awesome.

Heh. Heh.

[Jeremy]

Is not all this angst about the "drinking age" (it's not even actually the procurement age, it's the "legal to sell to" age) missing the point.

The point is not someone selling alcohol. Or a person of any age buying alcohol. or even a person of any age drinking alcohol. the actual PROBLEM is people drinking alcohol beyond what they can handle, and doing stupid shit as a result.

And it is perceived that a disproportionate number of young people are thus affected (except by jim Anderton , who thinks the problem is all about old age pensioners hitting the sherry)

So if thats's the PROBLEM why not address the PROBLEM. Restrictions on selling the stuff may make it a little more difficult for youffs to obtain- but that just adds to the challenge and proves that you're grown up when you do get hold of the stuff.

Restore the old law making it an offence to be intoxicated in a public place. And the one about "children in need of care and protection". And other such similar enactments. And make it an offence for parents to knowingly allow their children to be under the influence of liquor. Address the actual problem. And allow sensible young people (and old age pensioners) to have a drink in moderation. As most of them do.

Why should anyone except wowsers care if someone of any age has a drink, provided it's not causing problems to anyone. As Mr Giradin says, civilised countries 10 and 12 years olds have a glass of watered wine with their meal.

Are we seriously proposing that a 19 year old should not be able to have a glass of wine with HIS meal , in a restaurant?

Going to agree with Jim Anderton after knowing my great aunts :/

[jumma]

I can't see raising the age back having a dramatic effect in reducing teen drinking and the chaos it brings with it. When I was in fourth form (legal age was 20 at this time) no one I know had any troubles in gaining access to alcohol. If we wanted it we got it, simple as that. There was still bottle throwing, drinking on the streets till dawn and fighting going on then. If the age goes back up I would be surprised to see these things dramatically reduce in frequency.

[Hitcher]

Last weekend, I put vodka in my kids' lemonade.

You should buy your own lemonade. Bastard.

[oldrider]

For what it is worth, I do not believe there should be a law at all about the drinking age!
If you drink to excess it is a "personal" problem and something that person should be accountable for.
If you drink and break laws then you should be "personally" held accountable for the laws you break and dealt with accordingly.
There are enough stupid unpolicable laws interfering in people personal lives but not enough education about personal responsibility and being accountable for ones own actions.
If one gets it wrong they do so at "their" peril, not everybody else's.
There is too much of the socialistic school teacher solution here.
IE: If one gets it wrong, punish them all, that will teach them! kind of attitude.
Sort of like, "The beatings will continue until morale improves" mentality is applied too much in this country.
Education about personal responsibility and accountability is required, this binge drinking mentality is not new it was here when I was a kid and I tried it out just like all the others (follow the sheep) until I woke up and smelt the roses.
Throw away the age limit and give us a better police force and support them in upholding fewer and more appropriate and effective laws.
Just sharing my opinion with you, no big deal. Cheers John.

[Mom]

Drinking Age.. whats your thoughts?

Should it be raised to 21 ?

-----
I think it should be raised to 21, drinking is an adult thing; most 18yrolds ive encountered over the years have someway to go before they show maturity that could be said to be 'adult'.

The drinking age is irrelevant my friend......I agree about some 18 y/o people........but fact of the matter is they can vote, marry, be tried as adults (if they really stuff up).drinking age was 20 when I grew up..........did not stop me going to pubs and being served from 15 on......I just never really drew attention to myself is all.....the out cry if the plan to raise the age back again will be huge........I for one say leave it where it is and do a better job of educating our learner drinkers.......:done:

[Mom]

I'm not saying that all 18 -20 years olds are stupid or can't hold their booze . it's the stupid FEW that are fucking it up for the rest of them.

And raising the drinking age will not change these people whether they are 18 or 21..........it happens all the time........have you heard of the 80/20 rule......it applies to all sort of things.........mind I heard the other day that the statistic is more like...90/10......hmmmmmm :yes:

[MattRSK]

I'm not saying that all 18 -20 years olds are stupid or can't hold their booze . it's the stupid FEW that are fucking it up for the rest of them.

Amen to that,
























I am fucken crazy!

[hazard02]

Lies, damned lies and statistics!
You can find facts to support both sides of the argument. They don't mean sh*t really. I turned 18 about 7 months ago and promptly forgot all the alcohol education I recieved in school. Its a waste of time. Binge drinking etc is just something you need to get out of your system. The majority of people I know tried it once or twice then got over it. Raising the drinking age will just delay the inevitable. Alcohol-related crimes may drop but crime itself wont. People commit crimes, not alcohol.

[/end rant]

[Disco Dan]

wow, seems pretty even for both sides!

by having the legal age at 18, 15,16 and 17 year olds go out and start binge drinking - this is the problem! their 'older' friends go out and buy it for them, and bear in mind the driving age... means higher percentage of drink driving youths.. young'uns that cant handle the drink, controlling a 1500kg weapon on the road!

raise it to 20, and then this cuts out the majority of 15 - 18 year olds and gives them the chance to get a proper education etc etc

[James Deuce]

raise it to 20, and then this cuts out the majority of 15 - 18 year olds and gives them the chance to get a proper education etc etc

Utter bollocks. That age group have drunk themselves stupid for the last 60 years. Changing the legal age to buy alcohol will make no difference at all.

[Squeak the Rat]

Education my rectum, and it damn near killed me. My biggest binge drinking period was in my mid twenties over in London and the land of Eire. I knew the issues with binge drinking and general excess but did that stop me? No sireeee bob. I was a more sensible drinker when I was 16......

[WarlockNZ]

Education my rectum, and it damn near killed me. My biggest binge drinking period was in my mid twenties over in London and the land of Eire. I knew the issues with binge drinking and general excess but did that stop me? No sireeee bob. I was a more sensible drinker when I was 16......

Because you didn't want to draw attention to yourself .. and thats the point .. sure 18 year olds will still drink .. we all know we can't stop that .. but they will be a damn sight more carefull about "how" they drink, so as to not draw attention to themselves.

[diggydog]

we have people that can handle there drink and some that could'nt, back when started drinking alochol over 30 yrs ago, yes we and i had problems from time to time, i think the younger ones today are finding smarter ways to beat the system, also kids are receiving alcohol from older people which is a problem on it's on.

[Lou Girardin]

Last weekend, I put vodka in my kids' lemonade.

It was awesome.

Heh. Heh.

It's cheaper to give them coke and twistys.

[pritch]

Here's a point .. if you fight for your country .. you are legally allowed to buy and drink alcohol (on base), funny how no one ever mentions that huh ??



I've heard that a lot most recently from a politician last night.
Basically it's bollocks.

Kiwis fighting for their country at 18 would be rare. Nineteen was the minimum age at which the Army sent people away and most were 21 plus.

The navy might have sent children away on ships, but other than the contretemps off the River Plate there are very few instances where the Navy could be said to have been actually fighting.

[James Deuce]

The navy might have sent children away on ships, but other than the contretemps off the River Plate there are very few instances where the Navy could be said to have been actually fighting.

That's not true at all, and the Achilles was only seconded to the RNZN. It had a mostly Brit crew at the time of the River Plate.

My grandfather was RN in WWII and RNZN in Korea. How many Commonwealth frigates with 2x4.7in guns took on multiple shore batteries of 16in guns from 200 yds? 1. An RNZN one. It won.

[Bartman10]

My question:

What is wrong with getting pissed and doing stupid stuff?

All these anti drinking things say 'drinking is bad', apart from drink driving and wiping out entire families, which has fallen dramatically in the last 20 years anyway, I can't really see what the problem is.

I used to like getting pissed and acting like an idiot when I was 16. I still enjoy it now at 29. My boss still enjoys it at 42. I don't see what the problem is.

Sure a few people will die and suffer ill health as a result.

Some other people die sniffing LPG and lighting a fag.

Other people get hit on their motorbikes by fucktards in 4X4's

Other people have heart attacks while playing social hockey.

More than 6 billion people WILL die in the next 100 years which is 164,384 people PER DAY (which is about 50 x the number that Hitler killed on average per day!) an there ain't nothing you can do about it. Tinkering with the drinking age won't even register as a statistical blip.

Time to get pissed!

[scumdog]

My question:

What is wrong with getting pissed and doing stupid stuff?


Sure a few people will die and suffer ill health as a result.

Time to get pissed!
But what about the people that the drunks stab/rape/run over/beat with lumps of wood - not to speak of the property they vandalise etc - all stuff that wouldn't happen if the drunks were sober.

Young drunks are worse than old drunks, more impulsive, more quick to violence.

[James Deuce]

Aargh Scumdag. That argument is based in fact and frontline experience and much respect for that. However we're not ALL like that. That argument is used by all sorts of politicians and is garnered from people working in hospitals, the Police, Firemen, Ambos, Prison workers, and Pub workers. In other words the people that are in more frequent contact with the losers and drop kicks in the world. What about the rest of us whose worst crime is yelling that wife sometimes, or forgetting to pay for a bottle of milk while rounding up rowdy kids? We're not all like that. Why do the "silent" majority have to bear the brunt of the punishment? We're the people who obey these laws. Not the drongos that you're pointing out.

There are also people who do stuff like that sober and spend five minutes in prision and then get out to do it again in a couple of years.

[Ixion]

That is a good point . It is argued that there must be restrictions on all because of the stupid or antisocial actions of a minority.

But, how many of those minority actions would occur without alcohol at all? I suspect many of them would. The losers and bashers and psychopaths don't need alcohol to be violent and nasty or stupid. Odds are that when they do do such things they will be "under the influence". But that's not what causes the nastiness. They're just nasty people. Sober, they're nasty sober people, drunk they're nasty drunk people.

And, once again, we see laws passed because of actions by people who don't obey laws anyway. So they will only affect the lawabiding who were not the reason for the original justification

[Grahameeboy]

Aargh Scumdag. That argument is based in fact and frontline experience and much respect for that. However we're not ALL like that. That argument is used by all sorts of politicians and is garnered from people working in hospitals, the Police, Firemen, Ambos, Prison workers, and Pub workers. In other words the people that are in more frequent contact with the losers and drop kicks in the world. What about the rest of us whose worst crime is yelling that wife sometimes, or forgetting to pay for a bottle of milk while rounding up rowdy kids? We're not all like that. Why do the "silent" majority have to bear the brunt of the punishment? We're the people who obey these laws. Not the drongos that you're pointing out.

There are also people who do stuff like that sober and spend five minutes in prision and then get out to do it again in a couple of years.


Yep need I mention that 30% of accidents are caused by drunks and 70% are caused by sober people!!!!

[Lou Girardin]

The old, "join the army at 18" argument doesn't wash. If every teenager was subject to army discipline, you could let them drink at 16.
The fact is that they had their chance and blew it, as teens always do.

[scumdog]

Jim2, Ixion, Grahameboy, see my comment on post#36 re this sort of stuff.
Your whole life is penalised by laws catering for the lowest common denominator - the fuckwit who is generally a minority.

Us 'sensible' majority pay for it by speed limits, 250cc limits. gun laws, breath alcohol levels, eta al.

Why should the legal age of alcohol possesion etc be any different???

[James Deuce]

Because we need to start putting our foot down before we're not allowed to go outside any more. Our freedom within the scope of the society we've created out of religious conflict and global empire is in danger of being removed because of a society becoming stale and decadent, one that has turned so far in on itself that it is in danger of turning inside out.

We need to remind those that govern us that they are our servants, not we theirs.

It's just alcohol. If you abuse it you're a dickhead, but how do teenagers become adults? By being dickheads. Their mistakes give them the chance to become parents who teach their kids how to deal with the mistakes they will make. Instead we try to remove all personal responsibility in helping teenagers learn from their dickhead mistakes by legislating every aspect of their life, but we now have a society that threatens and blusters with no consequences, and parents are excluded from the process both by law and at the dickhead's, errr, teenager's request.

All I want is the right to make mistakes and learn from them. If I hurt people making mistakes I deserve the punishment society metes out, and if I'm equipped with one, the conscience to evaluate the consequences of my actions. I'm tired of being punished every time 3 people out of 4 million make a bigger dickhead of themselves than usual, probably just once too, and then I have to accept that people I respect have to enforce a law of dubious moral and ethical foundation.

[Ixion]

Jim2, Ixion, Grahameboy, see my comment on post#36 re this sort of stuff.
Your whole life is penalised by laws catering for the lowest common denominator - the fuckwit who is generally a minority.

Us 'sensible' majority pay for it by speed limits, 250cc limits. gun laws, breath alcohol levels, eta al.

Why should the legal age of alcohol possesion etc be any different???

Because a bad law about one thing should not be used as justification for more bad laws about other things.

[Hitcher]

Have "They" voted yet?

[scumdog]

I'm sure the drunk businessman in Christchurch that was fatally bashed over the head by drunk teenagers aged about 17yrs a couple of monthe ago will be feeling the same sentiments as you guys.

Alcohol? If none remained on this earth I would be a happier man - even though I like the stuff myself.

[WarlockNZ]

I've heard that a lot most recently from a politician last night.
Basically it's bollocks.

Kiwis fighting for their country at 18 would be rare. Nineteen was the minimum age at which the Army sent people away and most were 21 plus.

You just have to be in the armed forces .. you don't have to be on combat duty.

[scumdog]

Because a bad law about one thing should not be used as justification for more bad laws about other things.

All the examples I mentioned are just other exmples where behaviour by a minority has penalised the majority, NOT comparing bad law with bad law. .

[Ixion]

All the examples I mentioned are just other exmples where behaviour by a minority has penalised the majority, NOT comparing bad law with bad law. .

With the exception of the breath alcohol one, bad law because they attempt to address a problem by imposing a blanket restriction that does not address the problem, yet inflicts a loss of freedom on the law abiding majority

Problem: Some people drive at dangerous speeds. Valid solution - punish (or eductae) those that do. Actual solution, pass a law punishing all who drive at more than a certain speed , even if not dangerous. Even though the very people who caused the original problem will be the very ones who will ignore the law. Which is therefore a bad law

Problem: Some people misuse guns. Valid solution . Either prevent such people possessing them or punish misuse . Actual solution - well you get the idea.

The only legitimate one is maybe breath alcohol since if the level is set at a scientifically valid level it should not affect the lawabiding.

As to the drunk teenagers who bashed the man to death - would they have been any better sober? I doubt it, reality is that some folk are rotten in the core, drunk or sober.

Make those who cause a problem accountable for their actions. Don't try to let them off the hook by shifting the responsibility to a whole, largely law abiding segment of society

And as I think laws that do that are wrong, and bad laws, I do not consider existing ones valid precedent for passing new ones.

This sort of law making is like saying that because baby LillyBing was bashed to death, no Maoris should be allowed to have babies. It would solve the problem, wouldn't it? See how silly such laws can be.

Shit, if I'm not careful I'll find myself agreeing with Mr Oldrider.

[rudolph]

Use up all the tolit papper and wear out the dance floor

[James Deuce]

I'm sure the drunk businessman in Christchurch that was fatally bashed over the head by drunk teenagers aged about 17yrs a couple of monthe ago will be feeling the same sentiments as you guys.

Alcohol? If none remained on this earth I would be a happier man - even though I like the stuff myself.

I've been run over and nearly killed, and as it turns out had a great deal of quality of life removed, and probably a decade or two of life span, by a drunk driver.

I don't hold all drunk drivers responsible for my injury, nor do I hold alcohol responsible.

The guy that hit me took the sort of "reasonable risk" that a lot of "normal" kiwis still do. "I only have to go around the corner, nothing will go wrong. Just one more and I'll drive 100 metres up the road and get on the ferry." Even a couple of days later, strapped to a board and staring up into his tear streaked, lined, 70 something year old face I couldn't see the point of punishing him personally for what is a culturally acceptable "mistake" in NZ. He knew what he'd done alright.

I got pissed off when I found out that the courts considered me to be practically worthless though, but it wasn't personal. That was an example of a law that attempts to mitigate the punishment for an action that is usually just inattention or bad decision making rather than out and out attempted murder.

[Michaelt]

The bill has been defeated 72 to 49.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10409844

[James Deuce]

We can be quiet now and go have a drink with the 14 year old hoodies in the River Rd carpark then?

[Michaelt]

I'm quite happy it's been defeated actually.

I don't drink, but my 18th bday is in less than a week, and I do like having the freedom to do things, even if I have no intention of doing them.

[James Deuce]

Good on you.

The legal age to buy alcohol was 20 when I were a dickhead, err, teenager, however I think I spent more time drunk and had more hangovers in the 3 years from 17 to 20 than I've had in the next 20 years.

Mind you all the hangovers I have had since then have been Mooch's fault.

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://www.newyorkbusiness-risingstars.com/images/1993/401993stone.jpg"">

I'm over 18

SU-SU-SUSSUDIO!

-Indy

[scumdog]

F***, F***, I thought my job was about to be made easier!!

Fot you "it's o.k. for 18 year olds to buy alcohol, buy alcohol etc - well fuuuuck-youuuuuo!
My salary is not sufficient to compensate for thw misery and problems that under 18 booze causes.

For a lot of you the involvement for you is the TV3 version of Whangamata, North Shore etc.

For me it is EVERY Friday and Saturday night with bruised and bleeding and crying teenagers that cannot afford the prices of 'controlled environmet' pub drinking but prefer cheap mixers (in my youth reserved for candy-arsed poofs and girls) they can afford before going to the pub for the last two-three hours before 'chuck-out' time.

Have a happy drinking session with your sub-18 off-spring.:shutup:

[Hitcher]

F***, F***, I thought my job was about to be made easier!!

Fot you "it's o.k. for 18 year olds to buy alcohol, buy alcohol etc - well fuuuuck-youuuuuo!
My salary is not sufficient to compensate for thw misery and problems that under 18 booze causes.

If I thought for one moment that raising the "drinking" age would remedy this problem, I would agree with you.

[Michaelt]

How about a test before you can buy alcohol, where you need to learn the "Alcohol Code" and you get an "Alcohol License"?

I don't even care if it's as easy as the learner drivers license or firearms license test, even that'd help.

[scumdog]

If I thought for one moment that raising the "drinking" age would remedy this problem, I would agree with you.

Piss-take right??

Like the problem was not as bad before the drinking age was lowered??? Pfft!!

Come and do my job for a week-end and then comment!! .


Too late, you have no comparison with what I dealt with pre-18 leagal drinking age laws.

[Grahameeboy]

Piss-take right??

Like the problem was not as bad before the drinking age was lowered??? Pfft!!

Come and do my job for a week-end and then comment!! .


Too late, you have no comparison with what I dealt with pre-18 leagal drinking age laws.

Hit the nail on the head Mr Scumdog...suspect lowering was more of a votes thing....surprised they don't lower voting age soon to get more voters eh.

Anyway, I see where you are coming from.

[Wasp]

but cmon, dont punish responsible 18 year olds like me (i barely drink at all). i WANT to be allowed into pubs after group rides, i wont even be buying alcohol when i have the bike anyway...

I am completly for the retailer age to be 20/21 but keep the pub age at 18.

[Lucy]

I had to laugh when I heard a young guy on TV reciting the 'If I'm old enough to fight for my country' line. Can you imagine a 2006 version of an 18 yr old fighting for his country? I can't. Most of them don't even bother to vote. Probably not even possible in this PC day and age to force people in to the army if a war broke out.

[scumdog]

I had to laugh when I heard a young guy on TV reciting the 'If I'm old enough to fight for my country' line. Can you imagine a 2006 version of an 18 yr old fighting for his country? I can't. Most of them don't even bother to vote. Probably not even possible in this PC day and age to force people in to the army if a war broke out.

I agree, ferkin' brave for a 18 year old to say that knowing they will never have to fight for their countey. (most present 18 year-olds have never had to fight for anything !!)
But anyway, what the ferk relevence has the top quote have to do with anything??

It is like saying " my bike has 18 inch tyres so I should be allowed into the pub at 18"

18 years old? No brains, no fear, no money, no common sense, no life experience, ALL the mouth and testosterone they will ever need!!

2 Years out of high school, 4 years of beginner in life and 60 years short of their life expectancy.

[Back Fire]

If I'm old enough to vote... drive a 2 ton slab of steel on wheels that can kill people... or go to war and die for this stupid country... why the hell shouldn't I be allowed to buy alchahol...

[scumdog]

If I'm old enough to vote... drive a 2 ton slab of steel on wheels that can kill people... or go to war and die for this stupid country... why the hell shouldn't I be allowed to buy alchahol...

Noooo, you got it wrong, why the hell should you be allowed to drive the 2 ton slab of steel seeing as you're so young.

[Michaelt]

Noooo, you got it wrong, why the hell should you be allowed to drive the 2 ton slab of steel seeing as you're so young.

You'll take my 2 ton slab of steel from my cold, dead, hands.

(yes, I'm a firearms license holder)

[Back Fire]

Noooo, you got it wrong, why the hell should you be allowed to drive the 2 ton slab of steel seeing as you're so young.

being 20 im a lil closer to the proposed new age... but being that your all so old, and you have poor eye sight, and weak old bodies... should you be allowed into public?

[scumdog]

You'll take my 2 ton slab of steel from my cold, dead, hands.

(yes, I'm a firearms license holder)

So am I sunshine, I hold several catagory of licence too, big effing deal, what has THAT to do with being allowed to addle your sub-20 year old brain with alcohol??.

I'm sure the older members will be ecstactic to know their child has been beaten/stabbed/run over by a 'responsible' under 20 year old citizen whose only fault was to drink lots of alcohol when they were too young to know what is what.

Sorry if I seem a tad cynical but at my age and in my job you tend to get a little that way.

[Jeremy]

You'll take my 2 ton slab of steel from my cold, dead, hands.

(yes, I'm a firearms license holder)

You're going to defend yourself with a piece of paper?

[Lou Girardin]

So the trough dwellers in Wellington prove once again that their lack of courage is exceeded only by their lack of common sense.
If, as they say, we get the Govt we deserve, what the hell have we done to get the shower of inadequates we continuously elect.

[Swoop]

F***, F***, I thought my job was about to be made easier!!
Sorry Scummy. I was expecting a better outcome than that as well.
It proves once again, that politicians can be bought with the ideals that a "committee" can improve the situation we are faced with. Bling coming your way to ease the pain...

How about a test before you can buy alcohol, where you need to learn the "Alcohol Code" and you get an "Alcohol License"?
Demerit points included?

I had to laugh when I heard a young guy on TV reciting the 'If I'm old enough to fight for my country' line. Can you imagine a 2006 version of an 18 yr old fighting for his country? I can't.
They would volunteer.... if it was going to be played on X-box.....
Why didn't he txt his displeasure to someone?

Why do they drag out the "I'm old enough to go to war" line? When they have signed up to the armed forces THEN they have the right to say that, [U]NOT before.


why the hell shouldn't I be allowed to buy alchahol...

So the trough dwellers in Wellington prove once again that their lack of courage is exceeded only by their lack of common sense.
If, as they say, we get the Govt we deserve, what the hell have we done to get the shower of inadequates we continuously elect.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Back Fire]

Why do they drag out the "I'm old enough to go to war" line? When they have signed up to the armed forces THEN they have the right to say that, [U]NOT before.



:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I am not a kiwi... and like hell will I even think about putting my ass on the line for a country that doesn't give me full adult rights when in the eyes of the law I'm a full adult

[WarlockNZ]

I am not a kiwi... and like hell will I even think about putting my ass on the line for a country that doesn't give me full adult rights when in the eyes of the law I'm a full adult

Dont even get me started on this ... you wont like what i have to say.

[scumdog]

Dont even get me started on this ... you wont like what i have to say.

I'm with him.:yes:

[Michaelt]

I just want to apologise for the rather idiotic comments I've made in this thread, and others.

Been studying for a few days with very little sleep, decided to open KB for some reason, wasn't really thinking about what I was typing.

Truth be told, you're probably right, considering how most people my age drink, lowering the drinking age was a bad idea, although I fail to see how raising it would fix that.

[jrandom]

I just want to apologise...

You total pussy.

[MattRSK]

I just want to apologise for the rather idiotic comments I've made in this thread, and others.

Been studying for a few days with very little sleep, decided to open KB for some reason, wasn't really thinking about what I was typing.

Truth be told, you're probably right, considering how most people my age drink, lowering the drinking age was a bad idea, although I fail to see how raising it would fix that.

Its ok, at least you are not a full time idiot like me.

[Michaelt]

You total pussy.

I just decided, a while back, not to try to prove my dominance over the internet, and get slightly angry at myself when I fail to do that.

If you're going to say something stupid and arrogant, do it in real life.

[jrandom]

If you're going to say something stupid and arrogant, do it in real life.

What? You're nice on the internet, and offensive in real life?

I suspect that in fact, you're boring on the internet, and a watery, hand-wringing, self-righteous git in real life.

Anyway, if lowering the drinking age was a bad idea, why is raising it again not a correspondingly good one?

[Joni]

Wow Fish you can be a grumpy bugger when you are in the mood :bleh:

[Michaelt]

Anyway, if lowering the drinking age was a bad idea, why is raising it again not a correspondingly good one?

Because it'll never happen.

You take away from someone a right that you've given them, and you lose a lot of votes, and people will just ignore the new law, as they don't agree with it.

[scumdog]

Because it'll never happen.

You take away from someone a right that you've given them, and you lose a lot of votes, and people will just ignore the new law, as they don't agree with it.

We're forever having rights taken away from us BUT what is REALLY true is those words of your 'lose a lot of vots' - THAT'S what it's mainly about!

If the issue had been to raise the age of XXX from 12 years to 14 years of age none of the politicians would have given a fat rats arse and would have voted how they REALLY felt on it.

SOME 18-20 year olds are mature but that group are overly representative in 'fuckwit deeds' catagory too. :yes:

I can't think of too many laws that people don't agree with that are ignored - and if the ARE there is a corresponding weight of penalty on the breakers of said law.

[Lou Girardin]

This was a tribute to the booze industry lobby, and pollies looking for any reason to avoid a decision.

[James Deuce]

Fuck off. I'm, druink as fuck and everyione deserves to feel this way at least once.

Jim2

Can 't even line up on the keyboard. Anyone want a fight?