2wd motorbikes

[Toast]

I wondered what had happened to Yamaha and their 2wd system.

http://www.bikepoint.com.au/portal/tabID__501554/ArticleID__2146882/DesktopDefault.aspx

If it performs as well as they claim there on a road race track, I'm surprised they haven't put it some series, somewhere...?

Does anyone know how much Ohlins charges for the conversion kit?

[-df-]

thats kinda crazy...but wouldn't mind giving one a go.

[onearmedbandit]

At the time yamaha reckon they trialed it on an R1 with promising results. I'd love to try an open class 2wd sportsbike out, would be unreal!

[Fishy]

no more wheelies? :gob:

[Ixion]

That's BMW. Their new models have traction control, stops wheelies.

[onearmedbandit]

no more wheelies? :gob:


No reason why not, having drive to the front wheel ain't going to make it harder to lift under power. What I'm thinking is the drive out of corners. Could be quite impressive!

[ManDownUnder]

What %age power loss in the drive train to the front wheel though?

Is there a reason F1 cars (or other road race cars) aren't 4WD on the whole?

Off road I can understand, but on seal? Na.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Still have wheelies,


No more drifting :gob:

[xwhatsit]

I think it's banned in F1. They don't allow a lot of nice things in F1, like 6-wheelers after that was trialled by one team for a year or so. Ground effects is also banned, as is totally slick tyres. I doubt 4wd would be permissable.

The biggest issue would be in terms of drive train loss; the hydraulics are probably nowhere near 100% efficient.

[Motu]

No more drifting :gob:

Oh yes,there will be drifting alright - massive controlable understeer....like a 4x4 rally car compared to a rwd one.

[onearmedbandit]

Oh yes,there will be drifting alright - massive controlable understeer....like a 4x4 rally car compared to a rwd one.

Oh yeah, Motu is sooo right.

[Ghost Lemur]

The interesting part of that article to me was the fact that Yamaha own 75% of Ohlins.

A few seconds a lap sounds like bullshit to me, otherwise why not throw it on the MotoGP bike. Sure they might get the results biffed out and have to remove it again, but think of the publicity.

[onearmedbandit]

What %age power loss in the drive train to the front wheel though?

Is there a reason F1 cars (or other road race cars) aren't 4WD on the whole?

Off road I can understand, but on seal? Na.

On the seal? Definitely dude. I remember years ago out at Ruapuna (old track with the hairpin at the end of the straight) some outfit took 3 cars out there. A new Falcon, new Corona Amon, and a new non-turbo 4x4 Subaru wagon. From memory the Falcon managed to do the hairpin at about 78km/h, the Corona about 82km/h, and the Subaru did it at about 125km/h. No further proof needed. Road racing (especially GT class) is about pureness and not many racers consider 4x4 road cars to be 'pure'.

[onearmedbandit]

The interesting part of that article to me was the fact that Yamaha own 75% of Ohlins.

A few seconds a lap sounds like bullshit to me, otherwise why not throw it on the MotoGP bike. Sure they might get the results biffed out and have to remove it again, but think of the publicity.

Think about how much quicker a 4x4 car is over it's 2wd counterpart. Now do you think a bike that not only gets pushed out of the corner, but pulled as well, could exit a corner at a much higher speed than a normal bike?

[Forest]

I think the reason you don't see these systems in racing is because they probably aren't permitted under the rules.

Disclaimer: I am not a racer, or an expert on racking.

[onearmedbandit]

Whats 'racking' got to do with it?

[SixPackBack]

The most fundamental reason all wheel drive is superior is because of torque split, I.E twice as much area to drive through, resulting in half as much power transfered.

[Kickaha]

They don't allow a lot of nice things in F1, like 6-wheelers after that was trialled by one team for a year or so

3 teams did it, Tyrell has the most well known car of them

[Motu]

The Ohlins system is not a 50/50 split or anything like it,it was developed for off road use and only put power to the front wheels when the rear lost traction....I'm not sure how they did it with the R1.I'd be really keen to try it out on any surface - imagine being able to point your front wheel and have the front wheel pull you there.As I said,massive understeer,but it would be controlable.....and by how much....ooooo,I'd love to find out.

[Ixion]

Well, in one respect two wheel drive motorcycles are old hat. BMW did them, so did Zundapp and Ural, maybe others.

You could probably do it quite easily wih a BMW type front suspension (or an Earles fork), and hub centre steering.

Dunno that I'd trust hydraulic drives though.

[Mental Trousers]

Using hydraulics has lots of associated problems. Think of the annoying things that happen to brake systems (racing in particular) that come about because of heat, moisture etc. Also the problems with sealing etc, not to mention the weight.

Early versions of the Yamaha/Ohlins hydraulic front wheel drive system suffered from uneven drive when the handle bars were turned or the suspension was compressed. The hoses caused resistance in the steering and the entire system added quite a lot to the unsprung weight.

There's been almost as many front wheel drive systems as there has been funny front end suspension systems. The main problems have been complexity, weight and cost.

[motoGP]

Interesting idea.
Found a website with a bit of info:
http://archives.motorcycle-usa.com/TwoWheelDriveYamaha.html

[Motu]

The original,and 48 years later you can still buy one new!

http://www.rokon.com/about/index.htm