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Redstar
19th May 2003, 19:49
All you North of the Bridge bikers have you noticed the earthworks on the shore as they carve out the new transit bus lane? I contacted Transit NZ today and the official word is that we will be not allowed to use it!
Are we going to take this sitting down?not bloody likely I have made a submittion to transit for formal clarification of their position and a request for consultation with us.
Apparently they are worried that we will get involved in problems with Buses picking up and setting down? strange considering it wont have any bus stops?
this is an important issue for all of us because such transit lanes
will become more prevalent on the southern western and eastern and eventually anywhere in NZ. what we accept now will dictate the future for us all I am happy to lead the fight.
Please indicate your support for this fight.

Dave
20th May 2003, 11:03
Thats weird because auckland cities official view is that bikes can use bus lanes.Maybe transit are trying to cultivate congestion so they can get more funding.

bluninja
20th May 2003, 13:27
Strange how one section of Auckland allows use, and one doesn't. It seems emminently sensible to me for motorbikes and cycles to use bus lanes. After all in heavy traffic they are the most vulnerable forms of transport. Or perhaps they think that everyone will suddenly get a motorbike to use the buslanes; suddenly buslanes being hogged:rolleyes: by suited harley riders on their way to cut a deal at the office.

TTFN

Yamahamaman
20th May 2003, 17:20
The Mayor of London came up with an idea that works exceptionally well and would probably work in Auckland as well. Motorists are taxed UK5 (NZ15) to take their private cars into London. It's called a congestion tax.

SpankMe
20th May 2003, 17:47
But are bikes charged to use central London as well?

wkid_one
20th May 2003, 18:20
NO they aren't

SpankMe
20th May 2003, 18:28
:) That’s good to hear. It would be interesting to know how much motorbike/scooter usage increased after the charges came into effect.

SPman
20th May 2003, 19:37
I beleive theres been a marked increase in the sales of scooters in the UK since the Tax came in!:niceone:

Andrew
20th May 2003, 22:05
From my understanding you can use all the bus lanes off the motorway, but not use the bus lanes on the motorway. Is that the case?

SPman
20th May 2003, 22:30
All the bus lanes in Auckland City. I'm not sure about the lanes in Onewa Rd in Northcote 

Coldkiwi
21st May 2003, 12:43
use of buslanes is governed by the owning authority. ie. buslanes in pakuranga are governed by manukau city bylaws. The motorway buslanes however are owned by Transit NZ and are ruled by their laws (which says not-on-your-nelly buddy.. unless you want a $600 fine!).

so for onewa road you'd be best to call north shore city council and ask them.

 

bikerboy
21st May 2003, 14:02
:o If TNZ are worried about stopping for passengers surely this is more of an issue in cities, yet they allow it.

I think it's just an excuse to force us into buses. They should be encouraging bikes, as they go straight to your destination, no changes, bus stops etc. take up less room and are more economical as far as roads are concerned; less damage and smaller lanes. :rockon:

Redstar
21st May 2003, 20:41
Well I have posted a submission with transit and Paul Swains office and I'll keep you posted on reply. I did suggest that non licence holders and bikes less than 150cc might be excluded on the basis of inability to keep pace with buses?
I thought well those 150,s can do 150klms/hr so that should match a bus? I hav had polite acknowledgement from both offices if it come to the crunch we may need to formulate a collective response?:rockon:

Redstar
23rd May 2003, 14:17
Onewa road is a designated transit lane for Buses cars with 3 plus and Motorcyles specifically: an island of sanity in an otherwise biker sod off world.
all other bus lanes green painted are officially no go for us on the shore.:niceone:

Redstar
23rd May 2003, 14:24
This is a copy of the remit.


Website 19/05/2003 17:10:41 >>>
QuestionsComments:
Auckland Northern Motorway priority lane for buses and high occupancy vehicles project under construction submission for approved usage by Motorcycles


Dear Sir

My understanding from inquiries made of Transit New Zealand is that this lane currently under construction will not be made available to the use of Motorcycles but will be restricted to Passenger Service Buses and High Occupancy Vehicles?

My submission is in support of consideration of allowing motorcycles to use this lane on completion.

I spoke briefly to a project staff person at the Transit Auckland Office who advised me that it is not intended to allow motorcycles to use this lane.

The rational offered for this stance is one of protection of the Safety interests of the Motorcyclists in view of the interaction with the Buses picking up and setting down.

I assumed the lane would be a continuous non-interrupted lane flow and therefore the interaction would be nil in this respect?

I have been using Onewa Rd Transit lane for a few years now and have found that Buses HOV?S and motorcycles can cohabitate quite well and this is indeed a situation where buses pick up and set down. Why should the new transit lane offer a higher risk to the Motorcyclists?

In the interests of congestion reduction, environmental impact one would assume there would be encouragement to the Motorcycle user and yet I fear a lost opportunity

Currently the Buses use the inside lane of the Northern Motorway and Motorcycles have not been permitted to use that lane due to the risks associated with other road users not seeing them and pulling onto the shoulder without checking. (Media release 456 24th March 2003) this is perhaps so but will drivers look for a bus thundering down at speeds that approach 90klm/hr I think not and perhaps that?s one good reason why Transit NZ have embarked on this project?

Motorcycles are bonafide road users who now pay a higher registration than passenger cars most of us are responsible and hold clean licenses with good driving records. We don?t need regulated protection from other road users we are quite aware of the risks associated with our chosen mode of transport and quite capable of employing advanced defensive driving techniques.

I would like to better understand the rational behind Transits decision in this case and I would like to know if motorcycle groups and individuals have been given fair representation in this matter.

I would also like Transit NZ to reconsider this decision if it has been made



I would like to make a case for submission that this is transit lane could alleviate traffic congestion further by the inclusion and promotion of it for Motorcycles.

I would concede that owing to the speed capabilities of buses some smaller capacity motorcycles may compromise the progress of the Buses and also learner motorcyclists might be better encouraged to pass the test before exposure to the transit lanes.

This would be achieved by the requirement that motorcycles and scooters must be at least 150cc and a full license held for motorcycles but others may disagree.


Your Sincerely
:angry2: :angry2:

What?
23rd May 2003, 15:00
Interesting, don't you think, that Transit and the ACC appear to be at cross-purposes? The ACC wants to improve Aucklands roading, making it easier to take cars into the cbd, so more people will take cars into the cbd, so the problem now will recur in a larger fashion... And at the same time they are going ahead with the Britomart "solution".

Meanwhile, Transit want to improve the speed at which buses can get into a jam (to shave, maybe, 25 seconds off the Takapunu - cbd run??), but wish to keep bikes going slowly on the bridge when they will cut quick lines in town and take up less parking space.

I'm cofused, the ACC is confused and Transit never had a clue to begin with! Almost makes me say how pleased I am to live in Tauranga, but our council seems to be headed the same way...:(:confused::angry2::gob:

Yamahamaman
23rd May 2003, 16:55
Last time I passed through Tauranga, I thought that the place was filled with Aucklanders judging by the driving skills of the car owners. :apint:

Urban Terrorist
23rd May 2003, 19:52
:D If you passed through here in the summer, Tauranga probably was filled with Aucklanders.

MikeL
23rd May 2003, 20:50
And staying with the original topic...
What about the special "B" traffic light, as for example in Symonds Street? Does this mean "Bus only" or does it mean "any vehicle entitled to use the green bus lane?" Can I cross the intersection with impunity on this signal??

SpankMe
23rd May 2003, 22:56
If the B is for the bus lane and bikes can use that lane, then its for us as well. I always go on the B light.

Redstar
26th May 2003, 20:28
latest attach the north shore city council they have consulted extensively with local ewi on the resourse management act and enviromental impact and the effect on the wetlands.
so they are happy. and they invited submittions from north shore residence so like thats at least five bikers got a chance to say something. I called holeshot Honda in the bike spot of New Zealand and they said ( no consultation but go for it mate)
salesmen! are we going to accept this?

Redstar
27th May 2003, 20:19
well Im getting closer to the holy grail I now have a contact at NSCC that makes the calls we are getting closer to the descision makers just hope he they have a soft spot?
I wish I had naked pictures of his wife it would make things so much easier..

bluninja
28th May 2003, 08:02
Naked pictures of his boyfriend or pet sheep might work better:o

TTFN

Redstar
28th May 2003, 20:01
I have the sheep ones its a black face Romney..quite cute actually

Redstar
28th May 2003, 20:42
the latest spin from the project director (doctor)
anyone care to translate?



Thank you for your enquiry to the Contact Us web page.

The North Shore Busway was initially conceived as a bus only facility to enable buses to avoid congestion and therefore establish reliable service schedules that would be attractive to users.

Through the project funding evaluation phase the concept of introducing HOVs into the system was introduced. High occupancy vehicles improve the person carrying capacity of the Busway and under the evaluation system that existed at the time gave the project a higher cost / benefit.

The advantage of introducing HOVs onto the Busway is that they re-enter the motorway immediately north of the Harbour Bridge and increase the number of vehicles and people travelling in Lane One.

However, no HOVs are planned to be let into the system until the capacity improvements south of the Harbour Bridge have been put in place. In particular this includes the widening of the Victoria Park viaduct and work to improve traffic movements through the central motorway junction. Unfortunately, continuing debate on the most acceptable design of the proposed improvements is delaying implementation.

Therefore, the Busway will initially run as a bus only facility , and it may be some years before HOVs get introduced into the system. Although this will be reviewed as part of the traffic management plans for this corridor .

Based on current analysis, when HOVs are pemitted to access the Busway, there would be a limit placed on the number of HOVs entering the system in the morning peak. Currently this is being set at 350vph 3+HOVs entering at Constellation station travelling southbound. The HOVs have to travel in a single lane southbound together with the buses. They pass through stations in a controlled speed environment and the 350vph was set following calculations of the safe volume that could be mixed with the bus movements.

At this time no consideration is being given to enabling other lower occupancy vehicles such as motorcycles to use the bus lane. Given the assumption that there is a limit on the number of non-bus vehicles that could safely use the system , any access to non HOVs will reduce the number of HOVs permitted. However HOVs are most likely to maximise people carrying capacity .

If the 350vph quota for 3+ HOVs could be achieved then this would meet the capacity and economic benefit targets that have been set. As bus traffic increases with patronage, it is conceivable that the HOV quota would be gradually reduced. Ideally, from a passenger transport efficiency perspective, as bus patronage grows only buses will be allowed on the bus way.

I hope this clarifies the matter for you.

Yours sincerely





Clive Fuhr
Project Director

SPman
28th May 2003, 21:11
Translation:

1: Buses only until spaghetti junction /Vic park flyover improvements done

2: Then upto 350 vehicles per hour with 3 or more people will be allowed to use the bus lane.

3: As more people travel by bus = more buses = fewer cars on bus lane = no cars

4: Bikes are counted as cars with 1 person on them - no account  of small size, manouverability,etc, etc. Basically - bikes fuck off, you do not feature in our plans, you are invisible!  ie - no bikes!!:angry2: :brick:  :Punk:

Redstar
28th May 2003, 21:24
I thought as much but are we going to take this?

can we fix it?

I think so Bob.

Now I will move to phase 2 of my plan of attack..

MUM!:confused:

Redstar
28th May 2003, 21:28
Phase 2 right .. sorted thanks mum..
there is going to be a petition.. we need 64,000 signatures to it so that is every biker in NZ plus there extended families and friends. watch this space...:rockon:

Redstar
16th June 2003, 14:54
Well I have been to busy of late but finally got around to a reply to the NSCC I do wonder if this is a crusade of one?
If I can get in front of the committee or something am I going alone?
Hey what about Ride on ride off buses?



Clive Fuhr
Project Director
North Shore Busway Project
North Shore City Council


Dear Clive

Re: Your Reply to my letter dated 26th May 2003


Many thanks for taking the trouble to acknowledge my initial submission on this matter.

I would also like to qualify any implied criticisms of the projects scope with a general acknowledgement of the merits of any strategy, which attempts to alleviate the congestion experienced on the Northern Motorway.

My Family and I initially moved to the Hibiscus coast some ten years ago from Hamilton and at that time a traffic jam on the Northern rarely extended north of Tristram Avenue but now is rarely not less than Greville road but I’m sure you are well aware of all of this?

Substantively this growth in traffic numbers is a direct reflection of the infill development housing policies of both North Shore and Rodney District Council.

To what extent any improvements in commuter traffic flow both directly and through increased use of public transport will improve the situation will be interesting to realise.

If I were a gambling person I would suggest that an initial improvement will naturally be realised by the Busway but the Motorway congestion may quickly re-establish itself due to factors of continued development infill and a back swing from the Busway as it frees motorway congestion.

To take a more long term Holistic approach to the problem would surely take into consideration the promotion of discouragement of the use of Cars into the City of Auckland and surely the use of two wheeled transport must play a legitimate part in any sensible strategy for the future?

There is a lot of hysteria about the dangers of two-wheeled transport but statistically straight-line motorway riding does not figure highly in the crash statistics and the hysteria is often fuelled by myth and unfairly marginalizes us as a group.

I was quite bemused at your honest admittion the no consideration had been given to the addition of motorcycles into this project planning. It was not a surprising disclosure but it assumes that the Motorcyclist were not given an appropriate level of representation?
It is also important to note that the highest percentage growth in motor vehicle registrations last year was in the two wheeled group and so clearly the frustrated car drivers will turn to two wheel by default given increasing frustration with commuting times.

On the basis of the arguments offered thus far as to why Motorcycles shall be excluded from the transit busway it appears to be based on supposition and assumption of the probable outcomes of the Busway operation but not on any tangible or challengeable statistical evaluation?


Where to from Here?

I have offered to take this issue on behalf of a group of Motorcyclists and we would like a little more than dismissal of our inquiry as a non-starter.

We would like to know if there are any channels of communication and consultation left open to us to promote our case for consideration.

We would perhaps be able to add value to the process through consultation as we can offer suggestions as to how Traffic congestion could be reduced

Perhaps you would allow some integrated experimentation on initial opening with control groups to prove the theory of safety and restriction thus far assumption only?

For my part I have as yet avoided the lobby approach to this issue preferring first to understand the issues and offer consultative involvement. It is of note that the leading centre of the Motorcycle trade in New Zealand probable resides on your very doorstep in Barry’s Point Road and naturally Bikespot attracts more than a fair share of supporters for my stance on most of the highlighted issues.

Do we have any voice in the discussion comment raised?

If you could please advise of any recourse I have to further consultation on this issue or otherwise.


Yours sincerely




:beer: :D :D

Duke of Rogan
17th June 2003, 18:40
I just joined this forum, and after reading this thread I feel better that other's from Orc-land's northshore are trying to get the council and all others involved to change their attitudes to bikes.

I travel every day to work along the above mentioned crap piece of road, and I have resorted to passing the stationary single-occupant cars in the right lane, on the right, however sometimes outside the painted "fog-line" as the cop who stopped me this morning called it (no ticket, just a warning and a general discussion of how f**ked it is we can't use the bus lane, and what was the fasted I had got me bike to :D )

anyway, I just posted this to another thread before, and I believe that with the intended changes to the Land Transport Road User Rules, it may be possible to legally use this method to overtake, as there is no mention of staying entirely within a lane.
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/legislation/road-user-rule/index.html

but using the bus lane would be far better.

I'm with you Redstar!
:niceone:

Redstar
17th June 2003, 22:25
cheers mate we will have a voice its three years before we have to give up and this will be my hobby.
the truth is there is no vested interest on the council yet but we will find an allie eventually? I was going to suggest that if the buses get a lane we can have theirs like say they give the slow lane to us plus cars with two plus HOV'S but thats our bottom line first we try for gold and get on this new transit lane.
councils are just a bunch of old foggies who are more interested in the fee they get for attending meetings and how load they can fart without being noticed!
If we keep chipping away we will get a voice but slowly does it.
I wrote to Paul Swain but as yet he is far to busy to respond to the plebs who put the fat cat in office. he can wait!
I think the transport spokewoman for the ACC need to get involveved she looks like a woman who would enjoy a ride?
let's be real nice for now...We are going to win this!

Duke of Rogan
27th June 2003, 14:14
dang it! :(

shortly after I got my ticket for "failing to dirve within a lane" 4 weeks ago, I sent a request to Xtra to create a poll on their Motoring channel with the question:
"Should motorcyclists be allowed to use the motorway bus lanes during peak hours?"

I didn't realise they went with it until after the poll closed, and the result was:
Yes - 30%
No - 70%
from 1232 cage-driving, tin-top owners :mad:

Duke of Rogan
27th June 2003, 14:19
BTW, who's the person from Gore that vote NO to the poll in this thread huh?

(prolly rides a Honda C90) :p

Redstar
27th June 2003, 21:31
30%? on the face of it a lost cause but then.. considering we on represent 1%(guess) of the on road commuter we have 29% of bikers in cars and sympathisers? so good result.
Its all gone quite from Paul Swain's office our elected Public Servant. and Transit New Zealand and the North Shore City Council have gone quite too? I think they have a strategy?its ignor the pricks and they'll go away?
but I've just started really. watch this space.

georgedubyabush
27th June 2003, 21:56
well, he didnt vote 'no.'
he voted that he 'doesnt give a monkeys'. and so he shouldnt if he lives in gore.:D
by the way, is a c90 like my grandpas ct110? im young:niceone:

Redstar
27th June 2003, 22:06
never been to Gore. but I here they do some wicked line dancing.
and your right no point in having a poll if you cant have a dont care vote. c90 bugger whats that a Honda postie bike? and a ct110 whats that a postie who got a promotion?

SPman
27th June 2003, 22:34
Originally posted by Duke of Rogan

Yes - 30%
No - 70%
from 1232 cage-driving, tin-top owners :mad:

A resounding win for Envy!.......Jealous twisted pricks!:whocares:

georgedubyabush
27th June 2003, 22:43
well my grandpa does have a ct110 and he's had it for his farm as long as i can remember. yes its a postie bike. it has a high/low ratio. 5 speed? no clutch. step through.
Kiwi rider had an article a while back of three guys that did a 2000 km tour on them a while back. looked like fun. $60 gas the whole trip. took them out in the bush too.

In a mad max holocast type situation. In reality the gangs probably wouldnt be on harleys etc, they'd be on cts. indestructible

What?
28th June 2003, 10:04
CT's are awesome in soft sand and gravel, too.

C90 is a step-through scooter thingy. Vaguely more like a motorcycle than a CT.

Duke of Rogan
28th June 2003, 10:07
Originally posted by SPman
A resounding win for Envy!.......Jealous twisted pricks!

I think you're right there about their jealously, so 30% is a good result!

my dad used to have a honda C90 as a farm bike, 4-stroke single banger, little brother of the CT110 I guess. I recall many mishaps on that beast, and bending the handle bars a few times. I once got one stuck upright in mud... :D

SpankMe
28th June 2003, 10:16
Originally posted by Duke of Rogan
I didn't realise they went with it until after the poll closed, and the result was:
Yes - 30%
No - 70%
from 1232 cage-driving, tin-top owners :mad:

Sound like a bunch of cage drivers thinking, "<i>If I can't use them then no one can</i>"

georgedubyabush
28th June 2003, 12:42
i also used to have a ct200 farm bike. same sort of deal, but not stepthrough. apparantly when they banned the manufacture of farm trikes, honda put their spare parts into ct200s. was kinda heavy.
sorry, getting a bit :Offtopic:

Big Dog
10th August 2003, 03:01
Any further developments redstar?
:rockon:

Coldkiwi
11th August 2003, 12:22
Originally posted by SpankMe
Sound like a bunch of cage drivers thinking, "<I>If I can't use them then no one can</I>"

i'd have to agree with that... just because the vast majority&nbsp;are a pack of mindless cripples who can't balance without an ounce of lateral thinking, for some reason, the more ingenious of us should be brought to their level.

I'd say we're definitely surrounded by turkeys. Just a matter of soaring in a squidly manner (like an eagle) through the turkeys without being spotted by a pig and being rounded up like a wild dog.

.. if you know what i mean&nbsp;&nbsp;:cool:

Redstar
14th August 2003, 21:46
Big dog.

Thanks for asking there is not much to report but I have a cunning plan...

The Labour Party has a web site check it out you can have online chat with MP'S cool. When Paul Swain has a spot we can all ask him on line real time what he thinks as He has not had the common courtesy to respond to my letter yet.

We have a few years to sort this rubbish out.

When we have the next general election we really must make our issues the descision tools for our vote preference a?

Maybe the Green Party may support us?Green Kawasaki colour. then we can smoke dope and wear draggin hemp pants!

bikerboy
14th August 2003, 21:57
:rockon: redstar !:cool:

Big Dog
14th August 2003, 21:58
Originally posted by Redstar
Big dog.
Maybe the Green Party may support us?Green Kawasaki colour. then we can smoke dope and wear draggin hemp pants!

Could lead to some interesting after market pipes you think?:rolleyes: Two bongs(instead of two bros) Hemptune etc
and calling them draggin jeans coul add new meaning to smokin it up on the bike lmao:rolleyes:

Sáll good.

ciao

Big Dog
14th August 2003, 22:02
Originally posted by Redstar
Big dog.

Thanks for asking there is not much to report but I have a cunning plan...

The Labour Party has a web site check it out you can have online chat with MP'S cool. When Paul Swain has a spot we can all ask him on line real time what he thinks as He has not had the common courtesy to respond to my letter yet.

Perhaps a mass invasion of the website needs to be planned on the subject, thirty or so bikers showing up online all at once ought to get their attention, especially leading up to elections!

Redstar
19th September 2003, 20:14
Still working on this sent a remit to Rick Barker(rt Honerable) now rick is an MP and a biker taboot and he has the ear of Paul raindrops keep falling on my head swain. so I sent rick the full story of the Bus lane thing and he will hopefully prompt Paul to at least answer my letter?

Duke of Rogan
20th September 2003, 12:23
keep up the good work RedStar, meanwhile I'll keep using the right of the right lane (its harder for the cops to chase you down out there!)

Lou Girardin
22nd September 2003, 09:01
Bus lanes hogged by Harley riders, get it! Heeheeheehee.
Lou

Lou Girardin
22nd September 2003, 09:02
Bus lanes hogged by Harley riders, get it! Heeheeheehee.
Lou

Sharkey
22nd September 2003, 09:56
This is also likely to be a big issue for us in the East too, what with this new Eastern highway that's on the cards. So full support Redstar - set the precident.

It's a bugger, but we don't even reach the HOV cutoff in terms of percentages - one person on a bike is normally only 50% of the available seat space, where as 3 in a car is closer to 75%.

Unless you take into account 7 seater SUV's. That's only, um...... ah...... less than 50%.

My maths is terrible, and I'm a flippin engineer..... :o

Duke of Rogan
22nd September 2003, 10:14
sorry, can you please repeat that? :D

bungbung
22nd September 2003, 12:01
You can reach 100% occupancy with a simple single seat conversion... or carry a pillion :)

Lou Girardin
22nd September 2003, 16:47
Sorry about that, must be tremors of delight to be riding again.

Coldkiwi
22nd September 2003, 17:58
hehe, oh well, sounds like it'll only be monkey bikes or race replica's with aero cowls allowed in the lanes on those rules (100% occupancy!)

&nbsp;

SPman
22nd September 2003, 20:02
hehe, oh well, sounds like it'll only be monkey bikes or race replica's with aero cowls allowed in the lanes on those rules (100% occupancy!)

In that case - I'm in.............!:)

Big Dog
22nd September 2003, 22:00
Originally posted by SPman
hehe, oh well, sounds like it'll only be monkey bikes or race replica's with aero cowls allowed in the lanes on those rules (100% occupancy!)

In that case - I'm in.............!:)

What your gonna ride the cow to work.... as opposed to a hog:p

Redstar
18th November 2003, 21:14
Progress to report:D
I have a letter from Rick Barker copy to paul swain asking for a repones to my letter to paul. so lets see what paul has to say?
the interesting thing to me is why they would build a bus lane with no consideration to the plan for the second bridge?
I reckon they really dont have a clue what they are doing?
its like make it up as you go along!

bikerboy
19th November 2003, 17:24
" ..it's like make it up as you go.."

I hate to be cynical mate, but what was your first clue? :(

Redstar
20th November 2003, 20:18
~usually I would give up at this point but I am inspired by your cynasism and the desire to overcome it.
there is plenty of time to sort this and one day we will ride this Bus lane and thats I am encouraged by Ricks letter and will keep chipping away.
Cheers

Marmoot
20th November 2003, 20:59
Was stuck in a jam in North M'way yesterday in my cage. As I was concentrating on not hitting the bumper in front of me, a bike zipped by at around 40kph merely centimetres on my left.
.........
....


Now I understand why you are not supposed to lanesplit on the left hand side of the vehicle in your lane in the motorway at all! I can't spare enough time checking mirrors (especially left) when I am concentrating on stop-n-go-n-stop-n-go.

If I had been drifting even a little bit to the left, the consequences would've been very undesirable.........

Either take the jam off the m'way, or let the bikes use the bus lane and highway shoulders!!!!
:angry2:

P.S.
IMHO driving a car will make you a safer rider. You'll know what problems we face when driving a car, and how huge blindspot we have.

P.P.S.
I miss my bike........2 weeks to go.......

Redstar
3rd March 2004, 20:41
:doobey: In case your wondering whats happening with the Bus Lane?
firstly it is stalled while transit NZ and NSCC work out where to get the additional 70million underestimated costs and meanwhile Paul Swain has been fired for refusing to answer my letter despite the fact I now have a letter from his office saying I will get one. Rick Barker is a true Biker but seems to be unable to get action.
Will I give up? no f#####g chance i will keep on trucking we will ride that lane,
I might join BRONZ?

Lou Girardin
4th March 2004, 06:17
The new Minister of Gridlock, sorry, Transport is Pete Hodgson. Don't hold your breath waiting for him to do anything to assist car/bike users. He's been captured by the Greens. Kyoto protocol, fart tax, etc.
On second thoughts, with Labour running scared, we should hit them hard with our wish list.
Lou

Redstar
13th April 2004, 21:21
:calm: HEY
I got a very nice letter from Pete. and first he apolised for the tardy response to my letters to PS. and then went on to restate the position that HOVS (high occupancy vechicles) 3 plus will be permitted to use the bus lane but only until the masses change to Buses then they too will be offski :laugh:
he sort of admitted that Bike had been forgotten in the equation but made a final commitment to consider bikes as part of any future transport planning.
thats better than nothing I guess <_<
Anyway the next step for me is two fold.
1.To suggest a little trial for Bikes and see if that flys :rolleyes:
2.To hand my buldging file over to BRONZ who may be able to pursue it further.
If we finally ride the Bus Lane I'll be a legend right and you'll all say "All hale the Redstar" or that was a waste of time :whistle:
If anyone wants my file let me know :apint:

Skyryder
13th April 2004, 21:43
And staying with the original topic...
What about the special "B" traffic light, as for example in Symonds Street? Does this mean "Bus only" or does it mean "any vehicle entitled to use the green bus lane?" Can I cross the intersection with impunity on this signal??

The B stands for Bus. And no you can not cross with impunity. You are deemed to be running a red light.

Skyryrder

Skyryder
13th April 2004, 22:05
Phase 2 right .. sorted thanks mum..
there is going to be a petition.. we need 64,000 signatures to it so that is every biker in NZ plus there extended families and friends. watch this space...:rockon:

Before you go down this road go to your local bus company and ask if you can sit in the bus drivers seat to see just how much rear view vision bus drivers have. You will be surprised how little this is. In truth you may not even be seen because of the wide blind spot. So OK you ride and give the bus a wide berth and now you are in front, but hey wait a minite there is a problem up ahead and you have to slow down, heavy traffic in the next lane, everbodys in hurry, and you have no where to go. So the driver for whatever reason is a bit slow in applying the brakes, its wet or there is sun in his eyes, God I could write a book on reasons that the driver may not be able to stop in time. Hell the bus driver may even be at fault. Are you going to get "less injured" because of driver liability.

I drive buses for a living. I also ride. Take this from one who knows both sides. I would not ride in a bus lane for any reason. It is just too bloody dangerous.

Skyryder

FROSTY
14th April 2004, 00:08
um just a question here --arent those bus lanes painted in a green paint?
wouldnt that be darn slippery on a damp day?

Posh Tourer :P
14th April 2004, 08:47
I ride in bus lanes occasionally, and I also use the B light at symonds street. I figured, if I was a bus lane user, I could use all the benefits of the bus lane. I use bus lanes when there are no busses in them, mostly, or when the busses are stopped at lights (see above). If I have to pass a bus stopped at a bus stop, I will pull out into the normal traffic lane. I have had some issues with people turning right across traffic and across the bus lane, not seeing me. I would be *extremely* cautious about this point, and look out for areas where the traffic has left a gap for turning cars. It would be *very* easy to T-bone someone in this situation. A bus lane is not necessarily safe to go 60 in.

As for the green paint, it is different to road marking paint, as it is not as thick, and there is still some of the chipseal contours left. I have not had to brake hard on it, but I think it will be more slippery than normal road surface, but less so than road markings.

Big Dog
14th April 2004, 17:39
I only use the green when there are no busses in sight in either lane AND traffic is tragically slow.

When approaching traffic lights I change into the standard lane as even if you make it through unchecked there a re a few intersections out there that have a bus lane going in but none coming out!

Big Dog
14th April 2004, 17:46
As for the green paint, it is different to road marking paint, as it is not as thick, and there is still some of the chipseal contours left. I have not had to brake hard on it, but I think it will be more slippery than normal road surface, but less so than road markings.
There is also sand in it. I think it is called shell grip. My tyres protest noisily but don't feel unsettled at braking points that would see me in a skid on normal 50kmph seal. A bit like how your tyres make differeent noises on the motorway than on the city streets at the same speed.

But in the end it is just like any other surface. It was made by a human to standards set down by a human and exposed to conditions said human did not take into account.

On any surface feel it out listen to your bike and you intuition and make your own decision, don't just blindly heed mine or anyone else on this forums advice about your safety. Listen, consider, test then accept or reject based on your findings.

DarkDream
14th April 2004, 17:57
If it puts more bikes on the road then yeah definately give them hell

Redstar
16th April 2004, 16:26
Before you go down this road go to your local bus company and ask if you can sit in the bus drivers seat to see just how much rear view vision bus drivers have. You will be surprised how little this is. In truth you may not even be seen because of the wide blind spot. So OK you ride and give the bus a wide berth and now you are in front, but hey wait a minite there is a problem up ahead and you have to slow down, heavy traffic in the next lane, everbodys in hurry, and you have no where to go. So the driver for whatever reason is a bit slow in applying the brakes, its wet or there is sun in his eyes, God I could write a book on reasons that the driver may not be able to stop in time. Hell the bus driver may even be at fault. Are you going to get "less injured" because of driver liability.

I drive buses for a living. I also ride. Take this from one who knows both sides. I would not ride in a bus lane for any reason. It is just too bloody dangerous.
SkyryderUm? well its good to get an alternative perspective on this from a bus driver,biker
I kind of assumed it would be fine to share the lane as the Onewa bus lane works fine and I always give quarter to 8 tonnes or whatever they weigh. One thing I would not want to do is make the Bus Drivers life any harder, so I'll take your comments on consideration. I did say in my earlier suggestion that this useage be restricted to full licence above 150cc as a could see the ''L" plated moped/scooter rider as a hazard to the flow of Buses. But I would still take my chances with a Bus as better than the current situation of lane spliting motorway gridlock. You seem also to assume that to a great extent we (Bikers) are not defensive or in control of or destiny? sure accidents happen but usually only when two bad drivers meet at the same time? I think if the planning had considered Bikes originally (which on the admittion of as departments it did not) then the lane might have been designed wider to accomodate both. but the turf is broken and the plans set in concrete :( If my crusade does no more than raise the profile of our collective needs then it will not have been in vain.)
Realistically this cause is probably a lost one? but thanks again for your input :niceone:

Big Dog
22nd May 2004, 15:23
Realistically this cause is probably a lost one? but thanks again for your input :niceone:
Perhaps not if fuel prices stay where they are for to long. :2guns:

speedpro
22nd May 2004, 20:34
If I had been drifting even a little bit to the left, the consequences would've been very undesirable.........
If you'd been drifting to the left the bike wouldn't have been splitting lanes till after you'd got it back together - speaking as one who splits lanes on the NW.

rodgerd
27th May 2004, 11:36
Sound like a bunch of cage drivers thinking, "<i>If I can't use them then no one can</i>"

Would they be the people who throw their doors open to knock over cyclists and bikers who dare to pas them in heavy traffic?

(And ought to go to jail for assault with a deadly weapon...)

FROSTY
27th May 2004, 11:51
darned hard one to call innit. Ive nevere seen it from a bus drivers point of view. I still think that bus lanes are under utilised pieces of highway.
I know its just a pipe dream but what if bus lanes had red/green lights above em so that when a bus is on that section of road its a no go zone

phase
27th May 2004, 16:52
Was stuck in a jam in North M'way yesterday in my cage. As I was concentrating on not hitting the bumper in front of me, a bike zipped by at around 40kph merely centimetres on my left.
.........
....


Now I understand why you are not supposed to lanesplit on the left hand side of the vehicle in your lane in the motorway at all! I can't spare enough time checking mirrors (especially left) when I am concentrating on stop-n-go-n-stop-n-go.

If I had been drifting even a little bit to the left, the consequences would've been very undesirable.........

Either take the jam off the m'way, or let the bikes use the bus lane and highway shoulders!!!!
:angry2:


Yep, most people don't see you and yes it is a huge risk splitting lanes or riding in motorway "gray" areas.

But who's reponsibility is it to remove these risks? The LTSA or local governments? The police? Other road users? God forbid, You?

When you bought your bike you weren't allowed to ride in the bus lane, why should you be allowed now? So you don't ride like a monkey in heavy traffic? Please. Take a step back. You don't _have_ to ride between lanes.

On the other hand, I ride like monkey on the Northern every day - that was probably me Marmoot. I just think there's another side to this debate that isn't being represented.

Why should there be allowances for you?

Marmoot
27th May 2004, 17:39
If you'd been drifting to the left the bike wouldn't have been splitting lanes till after you'd got it back together - speaking as one who splits lanes on the NW.

That'd be pretty naive assumption, speedpro. As we know, some auckland drivers posses a "lightning speed reaction" (or should I say "impulses) when it comes to changing lanes and turning, and often do without checking their mirror. That split second moment, if you happen to be in the wrong spot, can cost you dearly.

I'm just saying, also to Phase's point of view, allowances or not, regardless to whosever fault, when a car 'drifts' suddenly to the left without mirror checking it is the biker who'd end up kissing the road. And regardless of whose fault it is, the bike still loses.

And now we have that (that's right) 'underutilized' patch of road, why not use it in a regulated manner? Or, why not make policy that support higher road utilization (bike and bus) while removing some favour off the car section? The problem is that the government always favour cars cars cars, while not supporting the others ('criminalizing' bikes, not improving public transport to acceptable standard, etc). With this trend, how could we possibly expect the traffic jam to ease?

In the end, I feel bikers lanesplit only because there is no other viable option left. It would be good to create a new available option(s) to limit the risk exposed to them while lanesplitting, don't you agree Phase?
Or, if you have any option as you said maybe not being represented in here, that might just be the answer. So, please feel free to inform us.

phase
27th May 2004, 17:57
In the end, I feel bikers lanesplit only because there is no other viable option left.

You gotta be kidding me right? You have the same options as a cage. You either drive in your lane like everyone else or get off the road.

If I bought a hummer and drove down the grass bank of the motorway, because I could, does that mean I should expect some special allowance just for my vehicle type? Maybe I should get special use of the bus lane. Hell I should have my own lane!

What I'm getting at is - what makes a bike different from a car other than the fact it can lanesplit? Just because it's been happening for yonks and is pretty much expected for a bike on the motorway, doesn't mean it's be right.

You're breaking the law and you're putting yourself and others in danger - all because you wanna get to work faster than Joe Blow in his cage. Why should anyone make allowances for your impatient ass?

NOTE: Please note I am also the impatient ass who lane splits and puts himself and everyone in danger. I'm making this arguement because this entire thread seems hugely biased and I think a whole other side of this is being overlooked.

Big Dog
27th May 2004, 19:04
I stopped splitting after only a few goes.

To me it is not worth the agravation to get there 10 minutes quicker. Just plan your day better. You know when the traffic turns to custard.

Having said that there are times I will split.... they usually start with a whole line of traffic making room.

jrandom
27th May 2004, 19:14
I stopped splitting after only a few goes.

I have *fun* splitting.

But then I don't get out much.

Big Dog
27th May 2004, 19:21
Then you would probably enjoy my cooking :killingme

speedpro
27th May 2004, 20:35
That'd be pretty naive assumption, speedpro. As we know, some auckland drivers posses a "lightning speed reaction" (or should I say "impulses) when it comes to changing lanes and turning, and often do without checking their mirror. That split second moment, if you happen to be in the wrong spot, can cost you dearly.
Which is why I don't split lanes if there is a gap to the left. You never know when the cager will decide to jump over. Of course if there is a gap to the left there is no need to split the lanes. You have to make inteligent decisions based on the vehicle dispositions and the likelihood of any possible drivers actions.

speedpro
27th May 2004, 20:44
You gotta be kidding me right? You have the same options as a cage. You either drive in your lane like everyone else or get off the road.

If I bought a hummer and drove down the grass bank of the motorway, because I could, does that mean I should expect some special allowance just for my vehicle type? Maybe I should get special use of the bus lane. Hell I should have my own lane!

What I'm getting at is - what makes a bike different from a car other than the fact it can lanesplit? Just because it's been happening for yonks and is pretty much expected for a bike on the motorway, doesn't mean it's be right.

You're breaking the law and you're putting yourself and others in danger - all because you wanna get to work faster than Joe Blow in his cage. Why should anyone make allowances for your impatient ass?

NOTE: Please note I am also the impatient ass who lane splits and puts himself and everyone in danger. I'm making this arguement because this entire thread seems hugely biased and I think a whole other side of this is being overlooked.

I understand you are just putting forward the contrary view, but, it is this sort of petty minded antagonism towards events or actions by other people which disadvantage noone, which is so frustrating. As for the danger of splitting lanes, of all the people who contribute to this forum, who has actually had a collision while splitting lanes? I haven't.

Just refuting the argument not getting at you.

speedpro
27th May 2004, 20:50
I stopped splitting after only a few goes.

To me it is not worth the agravation to get there 10 minutes quicker. Just plan your day better. You know when the traffic turns to custard.

Having said that there are times I will split.... they usually start with a whole line of traffic making room.
Splitting lanes saves me between 30mins and an hour+ commuting every day. That is time I am able to spend with my boy doing Dad/Son stuff. I ride very conservatively and don't see an increased risk of injury causing me to spend "no" time with the boy.

speedpro
27th May 2004, 20:52
:done: BIIIiiiigg breath, , , breath out . . .

Lou Girardin
28th May 2004, 06:59
How about, if there's 2 cages side by side either is unlikely to change lanes. But if there's a gap next to a cage he might do it. Be careful!
Just a little rule for safe M/Way living.

speedpro
28th May 2004, 08:18
How about, if there's 2 cages side by side either is unlikely to change lanes. But if there's a gap next to a cage he might do it. Be careful!
Just a little rule for safe M/Way living.
Exactly how I work it.

phase
28th May 2004, 09:18
I understand you are just putting forward the contrary view, but, it is this sort of petty minded antagonism towards events or actions by other people which disadvantage noone, which is so frustrating. As for the danger of splitting lanes, of all the people who contribute to this forum, who has actually had a collision while splitting lanes? I haven't


Just refuting the argument not getting at you.

Fair enough. I wrote a big speil, but I think the arguement is moot. So anyway, GO REDSTAR!!! :headbang:

vifferman
28th May 2004, 09:47
Personally, I wouldn't want to share a motorway lane with buses, so even if we were allowed to, I would be reticent about doing so. I do use the Onewa road transit lane, but IMHO the Birkenhead Transport bus drivers are generally better than the Stagecoach ones, and after some early morning shennanigans up Nelson St with several Stagecoach buses, there's no way I'd be willing to trust my safety and life to the driving ability of the average Stagecoach driver. Plus there is the aspect of them not being able to see you if you're behind them.

Whenever I look like being behind a bus on the Harbour Bridge, I try to get around it by changing lanes, as I don't like being stuck behind a bus, sucking in fumes and not getting enough cooling airflow. Same thing applies for sitting in non-moving or slow-moving traffic of any kind.

I almost never lanesplit on the motorway, but rarely need to, as I've found timing my departure to coincide with a traffic trough is a more effective way of saving travel time. That, and using backstreets where the traffic keeps flowing, rather than main routes where the travel distance may be shorter, but I'm going to spend much more time at traffic lights or in slow-moving traffic. Since part of riding a bike is the experience of the trip rather than merely arriving at the destination, I try to make the route as interesting and challengin as possible. Otherwise I may as well take the car or bus (both of which I do on occasions).

Big Dog
28th May 2004, 15:40
Splitting lanes saves me between 30mins and an hour+ commuting every day. That is time I am able to spend with my boy doing Dad/Son stuff. I ride very conservatively and don't see an increased risk of injury causing me to spend "no" time with the boy.
There is evidence that lane splitting is safer than "muleing".
Accident stats show that more people are injured in attacks from behind on the motorway than lanesplitting.
But for me not worth the hassle.

in a perfect world this would be true 100% of the time but then we went and added humans into the equation.

If you can do it safely more power to you. Good luck and god speed.

Big Dog
28th May 2004, 15:44
Since part of riding a bike is the experience of the trip rather than merely arriving at the destination, I try to make the route as interesting and challengin as possible. Otherwise I may as well take the car or bus (both of which I do on occasions).
Hell yeah :headbang:
Never forget to take your zen with you :headbang:
Its about the journey not the destination. :ride:

sAsLEX
28th May 2004, 16:32
Coming back from uni the other night at about 1740 traffic was snarled up and going along customs st, came on at Anzac and was heading towards the shore. Splitting the whole way I had to cut in behind a motorcycle cop, after sitting still for a few mintues I moved next to the guy and asked him the deal about splitting, he said it was technically not staying within your lane, then that he was busy so if I took off he would do nothing about it! Thank you copper.

Lou Girardin
29th May 2004, 07:32
The 'no bikes on the stopping shoulder' always amused me. We used to tell bikers that they were in danger from drivers pulling onto the shoulder and not expecting a bike to be there.
Now we have bloody great buses using it!

speedpro
29th May 2004, 19:14
The 'no bikes on the stopping shoulder' always amused me. We used to tell bikers that they were in danger from drivers pulling onto the shoulder and not expecting a bike to be there.
Now we have bloody great buses using it!
Ah yes. But how many cars have you ever seen dive in front of a bus? Answering my own question - a few.
It's all to do with what's politically hot, in this case - public transport. If riding a motorbike somehow became politically hot we'd have motorbike lanes.

Big Dog
30th May 2004, 14:14
If riding a motorbike somehow became politically hot we'd have motorbike lanes.
any nominations for RedStar Or Lou for Mp then? :eek5:

Lou Girardin
31st May 2004, 20:05
No not me, I want nothing less than El Presidente for life.

Big Dog
1st June 2004, 19:01
anyone who was going to stir the $%^& on behalf of bikers and not sell out for a payrise like all the rest of them do would have my vote. At this stage i might have to be a concientious objector in this election, from what I can tell no-one deserves to be in power. Maybe I will vote green just to have an excuse when it comes to bitching about govments.

Redstar
2nd June 2004, 20:43
:sleep: I am asleep, but I think now we wait til the Bus lane is complete then all the car drivers will take to the Bus and we can have the Motorway all to ourselves :yeah:
I feel inspired again to persue this somemore to see if only we could have a trial period with the support of the Bus men.
I have noticed less Traffic police on the northern lately they seem to be leaving us in peace perhaps my letters got a message to someone about the risk of entrapment defence? who knows anyway a few of us big cc bikers are hammering down the central reservation outside the white line! care boys and girls thats a $750 fine? despite its obvious safeness. :ride:
Now heres news> Transit are about to restart the Northern extention to Puhoi :yeah: thats to facilitate us to get to the Tavern quicker(Bikers pub)at Puhoi (100 bike there 3 sundays back choice)I digress.
now its going to have a toll charge based on A Transponder attached to your vechicle debiting a bank account with your money in it :shit: That may be a slight problem as my accounts are usually maxed out. and how will it work for the occasional tourist? I'll find out and report, will it even apply to bikes? again who knows.its $1.80 a hit or something. apparently it you dont have a transponder they video your plate and send you an account? for $1.80 ? twits it would cost $20 to process? apparently this system is used in Sydney over the harbour bridge. Anyway we can still use Orewa Dome Vally twisties instead or SH16 to bypass this.

crazyxr250rider
24th September 2005, 13:16
Ah dear here we go.....