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Ghost Lemur
12th November 2006, 11:59
Only just starting to my research on this topic. Have a lot of other purchase to come before this one.

There's some good information available about GPS in general, less (or maybe just harder to find) about GPS in terms of dual sport motorcycles.

My requirements at this stage...


Track log. So I can go exploring come home and download where I went, maybe keep a database of rides I've done, and share it with others.
Program routes on the computer load them in the unit. Ie with the get the paper route chart for a ride and plot it for the gps the night before and not worry about the roll chart on the day.
Strong antenna suitable for being in the thick of the valley bush exploring an amazing trail.
Has to be rugged. I do drop my bike, will continue to do so for as long as I'm increasing my skills and pushing myself. So waterproof, mud safe, not going to be affected by vibrations.
One otherthing which is pretty specific to my type of bike is it's got no battery so unless I somehow mounted and installed a battery electrial system solely for the gps (which could be a possibility I suppose), it's got to be self sufficent.

At this stage as far as manufacturers it seems to be between Garmin and Magellan. They both have a sizable range of rugged GPS.

For those of you who have a GPS. Which brand/model? Thoughts and opinions on it?

I'll be updating/editing this main post as my research continues. Will add more usefull links as I find them.

LINKS

General GPS information
GPSinformation.net (http://gpsinformation.net/)
GPS.org.nz (http://www.gps.org.nz/)
The GPS Resource Library (http://www.gpsy.com/gpsinfo/)
Wikipedia GPS entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System)

Bike specific information
http://www.moto-guide.com/motorcycle-gps.htm
Advrider.com (http://www.advrider.com) has a complete section of their forums devoted to GPS.

Manufacturers
Garmin (http://www.garmin.com/)
Magellan (http://www.magellangps.com/)

Retailers
Downunder Pilot Shop (http://www.downunderpilotshop.co.nz/customer/home.php)

NZ Mapping
MapToasterTopo (http://www.maptoaster.com/maptoaster-topo-nz/)
Brent's GPS Maps (http://www.nzgpsmaps.com/main.html)
The New Zealand Open GPS Maps Project (http://gwprojects.orcon.net.nz/gps/)

Hitcher
12th November 2006, 12:41
Get one whose display doesn't cook in direct sunlight and which doesn't time-out after two hours (i.e. not a Garmin Etrex Legend).

far queue
12th November 2006, 15:51
I've also only just started some research on this. There's an article all about it in the Two Wheels mag from April 06 I think - it's my drawer at work, so I'll shoot it up to you if you like. The one they recommended is the Garmin Quest - it's around around $1000NZ though.

Lou Girardin
12th November 2006, 16:46
I've got a Garmin Quest, it's waterproof, battery powered (up to 20 hours) and small. The antenna unfolds from the rear of the unit and wouldn't take heavy knocks. You'd have to mount it in a protected place.
Great unit though.

Ghost Lemur
12th November 2006, 18:28
By the sounds of it the Two Wheels article is looking at more along the lines for a road bike. If that's the case the new Garmin Zumo looks mint. Huge touch sensitive screen. Wouldn't want to take it offroad though.

The models I've put on the list so far are...
Magellan eXplorist series (particularly the XL and 600 models)
Garmin 60/76 series

One thing I'm finding is the software for NZ still sucks arse. Where as you can get a 9GB topo DVD set for Australia, the DiscoverNZ map fits on a 256MB memory card. For NZ they seem to only bother going down to 1:50,000, where as overseas (including Oz) you'll get them going down to 1:25,000 or even 1:10,000.

You'd think between being a small country and having a GPS firm (Navman) based here we'd be on the cutting edge as far as mapping goes. But no.

Also found most mapping is for the Garmin, which is a postive for it. Still have to look into how difficult it'd be to convert Garmin based maps to the Magellan (for example).

The MapToaster software seems (on the face of it) to be my kind of pc end software as it according to their site has...

all the rich detail of the paper maps - seamless across NZ
1:50,000 though 1:2 million scale maps
integrated aerial and satellite imagery with transparent topomap overlays, included as standardLoving the aerial/sat imagery, hating the 1:50,000 scale.

far queue
12th November 2006, 18:41
By the sounds of it the Two Wheels article is looking at more along the lines for a road bike.What do you base that thought on?

Ghost Lemur
12th November 2006, 19:33
What do you base that thought on?

On two assumptions. Two Wheels is a sportbike mag (generalisation) and the Quest II won. Yes it looks like quite a good unit, but doesn't look very sturdy/rugged. I'd be worried about taking it offroad.

Will obviously have to read the article to see if any of these assumptions are right.

paulj
12th November 2006, 20:37
I'm just about to take delivery of a Garmin extrix Vista CX for back country trailing - from what I can glean none work that well under trees and unless you're going into mapping type units they all have the same or similar accuracy.

It arrives tomorrow along with some topo's and other bits n bobs for biking use (mounts, battery connector ...) - going to give it a burst this weekend - I'll post back, meantime this site will confuse the hell out of you - well it did me! - http://gpsinformation.net/

paulj

far queue
12th November 2006, 21:09
On two assumptions. Two Wheels is a sportbike mag (generalisation) and the Quest II won.Used to be just road bikes, now has dual sport stuff in it too.
Yes it looks like quite a good unit, but doesn't look very sturdy/rugged. I'd be worried about taking it offroad.The article is about it being used to set and then run the BMW R1200GS Adventure press release. It's rugged, waterproof, has a handlebar mount and it sounds perfect for the use I would put it to.
Will obviously have to read the article to see if any of these assumptions are right.Yes, that would be an idea.

far queue
12th November 2006, 21:12
...meantime this site will confuse the hell out of you - well it did me! - http://gpsinformation.net/Cool link, thanks for posting it

clint640
13th November 2006, 07:49
Loving the aerial/sat imagery, hating the 1:50,000 scale.

The problem is there never have been 1:25000 topo's of all NZ, all the other maps used are mostly scans or conversions of LINZ maps that are public domain & cost nothing in copyright license, the expense of developing a nationwide 1:25000 detail level topomap set would be huge.

Map Toaster is good, I've got Memory-Map topo which is very similar but has street maps as well which is bloody handy. It is a little more expensive though.

Cheers
Clint

Zebedee
13th November 2006, 12:36
... Strong antenna suitable for being in the thick of the valley bush exploring an amazing trail.
Has to be rugged. I do drop my bike, will continue to do so for as long as I'm increasing my skills and pushing myself. So waterproof, mud safe, not going to be affected by vibrations …

Just my $0.02 …

I’ve currently using a Garmin GPS III+ which will do all you are asking, and has the advantage of being older and therefore cheaper to buy and replace if it all turns to custard.

I originally picked the unit up in the UK and I’ve now uploaded the maps from the NZ Open Maps Project and I must say that I am extremely impressed.

FWIW I’d be inclined to check through the specs sheets on the Garmin discontinued models, and see what crops up on trade-me.

One big point though. Don’t expect to get a constant signal if you are bush bashing in a valley somewhere.

GPS signals are extremely weak, and when I’m on the bike I frequently loose signal in the forest. That said, if the GPS unit is stationary for a few minutes you can normally get a lock on a few satellites.

One little tip I’ve picked up … if you are setting up a route, it’s a good idea to set up a waypoint just before AND just after a junction.

That way if the mapping software that you are using isn’t 100% accurate you get a bit of notice before you get to the junction, and you also get a far better indication of which trail you should be taking at the junction.

… now get a GPS unit and get lost :niceone:

XR250 Si
13th November 2006, 12:40
Hi Ghost Lemur,

If you pick up a copy of the November of NZ Fishing News, they have a big write up on a wide range of handheld gps units with lists of features and how they compare to each other.

NordieBoy
13th November 2006, 16:36
Get one whose display doesn't cook in direct sunlight and which doesn't time-out after two hours (i.e. not a Garmin Etrex Legend).

Get a Garmin eTrex Legend :D

Mine is just over 3 years old now and has been on my bike almost every day (It's my speedo :D) and even on the XR during MX races and trail rides.

Can hold bundle of searchable street maps and still navigate in realtime.

And it's old enough to be cheap now.

NordieBoy
13th November 2006, 16:38
Also check out...
http://www.gps.org.nz/

Zapf
13th November 2006, 18:49
I do a good bit of road riding and I have recently bought a Garmin 60CSx, I find the buttons are workable with gloved hand. I have put it thru around 4'000km on the road and used it during the Grand challange at night.

With it just on battaries, it lasted around 20 hours on battery saver mode with the backlight off most of the time.

I find it does all the things I want and I would buy it again.

Street Gerbil
13th November 2006, 19:06
I am absolutely happy with my Garmin LegendC. It has a nice colour screen visible in direct sunlight, runs 20 hours off 2 AA batteries (or can be powered by a motorbike2usb adapter which I'll build one day).

Ghost Lemur
13th November 2006, 19:07
Added some more links.

Thanks far queue for the article, it was a good read.



I’ve currently using a Garmin GPS III+ which will do all you are asking, and has the advantage of being older and therefore cheaper to buy and replace if it all turns to custard.

Chances are I probably will end up going of an older model off the the bat. The GPS III+ is certainly on that list. Although it's missing some of the features I'd like (like colour screen, memory slot), it's durable (http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2006/10/takes_a_lickin_.html) that's for sure.
So is the next model up the GPS V. Read a few reviews relating to it like here (http://www.dirtrider.com/drtested/141_0404_dirtbike_gps_mounting_system/) for example.



If you pick up a copy of the November of NZ Fishing News, they have a big write up on a wide range of handheld gps units with lists of features and how they compare to each other.

Thanks, will check it out tomorrow.

Hammer
13th November 2006, 19:07
The Garmin 60CX or 60CSX are great. I recently got the 60CSX with maps from Brent's Maps. Great compact unit with all the features you would need. Have a look at Laying Down Tracks on Adventure Rider for product comparisons: http://www.advrider.com/forums/index.php

Zukin
13th November 2006, 21:13
I am absolutely happy with my Garmin LegendC. It has a nice colour screen visible in direct sunlight, runs 20 hours off 2 AA batteries (or can be powered by a motorbike2usb adapter which I'll build one day).

Yes I agree with the Legend, although mine is the previos version without the colour screen :(

Damn good
I have used it on my bike, 4wd and for hunting etc
It has been through torrential rain, dropped into a river, onto rocks etc and still goes good!
Easy to use and to make routes and waypoints.
Can find them cheap on Trade Me too :)

I used the free map software from NZ mapped projects, and have to say it is brilliant!!! ( I think Graeme is a KBer, the guy that made the program:mellow: )

My thoughts

Zapf
13th November 2006, 23:00
I am absolutely happy with my Garmin LegendC. It has a nice colour screen visible in direct sunlight, runs 20 hours off 2 AA batteries (or can be powered by a motorbike2usb adapter which I'll build one day).

Jaycar sells a 12V car lighter adapter to 5V USB gaget. I think you can wire the insides for motorbike use.

Zebedee
14th November 2006, 12:01
… it's missing some of the features I'd like (like colour screen, memory slot) …

After having run with used the GPS III+ for a while now, I’d agree that a colour screen certainly looks nicer, but I do question how much easier is would be to read whilst you are out on the trail.

Also, I’m not sure how much of a benefit having access to a memory card would be in this application, because if I’m outside the range of maps that I can store in the III+’ s humble 1.4 Mb, then I’ve managed to stray all the way to Auckland … god forbid :msn-wink:

Having said all of that, it would be nice to upgrade if the funds ever allow :niceone:

One other thing that I’ve found is that whilst the unit itself is extremely robust, I have had problems with it switching off on bumpy roads. The best explanation I can come up with is that the batteries are being rattled off the contacts, because it hasn’t happened since I’ve wired the unit into the bikes electrics.

NordieBoy
14th November 2006, 15:23
Smear the batteries all over (inc the ends) with vasaline.
Stops them vibrating and breaking contact.

My eTrex Legend used to turn off at about 4000rpm before I started doing this :D
Garmin should put a damn capacitor across the battery connectors.

Zebedee
14th November 2006, 22:10
... batteries ... smeared with vasaline ... (inc the ends) ... :buggerd:

I'm not that kind of boy, I'll have you know.

Sincerely,

Disgusted of Kerikeri. :niceone:

NordieBoy
15th November 2006, 08:32
:buggerd:

I'm not that kind of boy, I'll have you know.

Sincerely,

Disgusted of Kerikeri. :niceone:
"Ohh look I've got a battery covered with vasaline in one hand and a GPS in the other. Decisions decisions, what am I to do..."

"Ohh, it tingles!"

Disgusted of Nelson.

paulj
18th November 2006, 05:57
As promised - some views on the Garmin eTrex Vista Cx and supporting software.

The Garmin was purchased along with the NZ Topo's on SD disk and TopoMap for the lower half - Timarua <> Greymouth south, for the PC.

1) Garmin have pretty well locked up their software/hardware - the Garmin Topo Sd costs ~2/3 the price of the handheld. Loading other's maps into the unit maybe a mission.

2) TopoMap for the PC is a fabulous prg - very detailed and accurate although a little out of date 2002 - here in fast moving Queenstown. Easy to use and interfaces to and from the Garmin for routes, tracks, waypoints ... a great piece of software even without a GPS unit - requires formal registration to interconnect with a GPS - includes Landsat and 3D imaging - jeeesus - all for 70 samolians - if you're a trail rider and you have a PC, go get it - 2GB for loading tho! NB - this is not a Garmin product - it is LINZ based.

3) GPS - works well - been in my work car for a week or so - track logging, waypoint calc'ing ... does not autoroute well on main roads - better around town. Won't work inside buildings etc.

The Vista is rugged, waterproof, well designed, and easy to read in sunlight (in fact better than in my lounge) and for an old fart like me, I can read it without my glasses.

It is customisable, has a trip logger, altimeter, tracking and route finder ... interfaces with TopoMap very well - a few functions on TopoMap will not work on the GPS (BMP image files for waypoints, naming conventions...) but nothing that really matters.

I put it into my golf bag set to logging every 10M and then uploaded the track into TopoMap - a perfect map of the route I took including some buggering about looking for a wayward shot into the rough, then back to the carpark and the trip back home - amazing.

Downs:- for big handed twats like me, their toggle control is a pain in the arse - very fiddly to get it pushed straight down (= ENTER key in PC parlance) - a slight lateral movement in any direction and another bunch of menu's zips into view and then you're away on an adventure tour - this ENTER key is used a lot so it IS a pain.

Garmin's basemap (supplied with the unit) is next to useless so don't even consider a purchase without sorting your loadable map options. However the SD contour map, although expensive, is a cracker and with this on board my cross country navigation will be a breeze.

On balance - great unit, somewhat expensive all up, but I'm very pleased - although I am an engineer with a great deal of computer experience, the setup was straightforward and almost intuitive. I haven't read the manual(s) yet!

GPS was purchased from Trig - NZ agents - who make it very clear that if you purchase a parallel import unit, say off TrdMe, then they will not service it at all - back to the USA or wherever - I gather this is more about parts, compatibility, software and licencing than sour grapes.

Any questions or help - post back here or drop me an email.

Cheers -

NordieBoy
18th November 2006, 08:27
1) Garmin have pretty well locked up their software/hardware - the Garmin Topo Sd costs ~2/3 the price of the handheld. Loading other's maps into the unit maybe a mission.


Check out BrentC on TradeMe (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=253518).
Fully routable, street searchable maps of NZ for $165.
Been using them since being a tester for his original free ones.
Well worth the $$$

Hammer
18th November 2006, 11:50
Check out BrentC on TradeMe (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=253518).
Fully routable, street searchable maps of NZ for $165.
Been using them since being a tester for his original free ones.
Well worth the $$$

Worth being aware with Brent's current autoraoutable NZ package the north island is not autoroutable for the north island if you have to cross different map segments. To get around this you use another autoroutable version of just the north island or you manualy plot in waypoints around the map segment edges and create your own route. Everything else works really well. Brent is working on an upgrade that will fix this and it is near to releaseand anyone who buys the current version will get the beta of the next release to work with.

Gibbo13p
22nd April 2008, 19:11
Got another week or so before it turns up, looking forward to it....Boss brought a Garmin etrex high senitivity job for hunting which got me interested and I'd played with the older types while in the Army.

Discovered Geo caching while researching and think thats mainly what I'll use mine for, but wish I'd had one when I was a transport section Comd as I had a tendancy to get lost on the bike during trips to shitty wee training area's lol.

Some of these ones on trademe you can get with the same base maps as the ebay ones for bugga all....;)

Hoon
23rd April 2008, 12:51
Heh, my Garmin 60Cx just turned up yesterday as well. Being a grunt in the Army I'm more interested in hiking in dense bush/shitty weather and a little off track geocaching for pack march training. I've used the Army 12XL and 72/76 models a lot and am well aware of their shortcomings.

I threw on the NZ Open Source road maps coz they are free and tried it out on the way home. I was pretty impressed with the Autorouting, does everything a car GPS does except talk so that was an added bonus. The missus always gets lost driving so I think a dash mount will be needed for her car.
The funny thing is once seeing the autorouting I also thought damn this will be great for the Army when driving out to shitty training areas you only visit once every few years. It sucks getting lost and having to do U-turns with a truck full of troops and the Company Commander in the passenger seat :)

But yeah I'm after some satellite/topomaps as my main interest is bush work. If anyone can help me out for a small fee send me a PM :)

Gizzit
27th April 2008, 09:17
Has anyone had any experience with Magellan eXplorist 400 or 600?
I have seen the 400 advertised on TM for $245 and wondered what they are like. I had thought they may be ok for on foot as well as maybe on a bike.
I have read a few good reviews .... but you can't beat hearing from people from here ... first hand!
Thanks.

PS.

I have found two pretty good sites for reviews and details of pretty much any GPS you could want ......

http://www.gpslodge.com/

http://gpsinformation.net/

NordieBoy
27th April 2008, 12:49
One big plus for Garmin units is the OpenGPS NZ project.

The Explorist 600 looks like a nice unit though.

Are bar mounts available?

vegeman
27th April 2008, 16:47
Hi,
I've had handheld GPS's for about 13 years, and use them for bush, marine and generally anything. I'm am outdoor instructer and teach nav, with some recognisable qualification

Without a doubt the garmin X series GPS are the bomb, they have the very latest chipset which makes them detect satellites with far more sensitivity that anything commercially on the handheld market. These new units make previous units look last century. HOWEVER...I doubt that you would need this level of performance for road/track stuff...your choice there. I have a Garmin 60CSX, with a 1GB SD card and it gives me all the roads, all the marine charts, all the NZ topo maps, all the tides...everything, simply amazing.

Its my opinion that if you want a GPS, it might as well work well...otherwise, its just more crap to carry that doesn't perform when you need it. These units 'will' work anywhere ie. dense canopy, remote locations. They also work well in your pockets...so whereas the cheaper ones need to be mounted on the bars etc...you can leave this in your bacg or pockets.

There waterproof, only need 2 AA, bright, cope with direct sunlight etc.

As for powering it, I use sanyo 'eneloop' rechargeables...they are awesome, and far less hassle than trying to find alternate power.

The maps for these are 'vector based' (calulcated line drawings) which means that they are resolution independant so don't worry about 1:50,000 and all that stuff. MAps and PC software are 'raster based' and rely on bitmaps and certain number of pixels to represent the image...these are dependant on resolution.

I'll end the 'quick' reply now...as I feel I am going on :-)

LEt me know if you want more...

vege

Gizzit
27th April 2008, 18:43
One big plus for Garmin units is the OpenGPS NZ project.

The Explorist 600 looks like a nice unit though.

Are bar mounts available?

From what I have read on some reports, there are bar mounts and car mounts available. Good point about the OpenGPS project.

Gizzit
27th April 2008, 18:54
Hi,

...............
Without a doubt the garmin X series GPS are the bomb, they have the very latest chipset which makes them detect satellites with far more sensitivity that anything commercially on the handheld market. These new units make previous units look last century. HOWEVER...I doubt that you would need this level of performance for road/track stuff...your choice there. I have a Garmin 60CSX, with a 1GB SD card and it gives me all the roads, all the marine charts, all the NZ topo maps, all the tides...everything, simply amazing.


Sounds like Garmin rightly deserve their place at the top of the GPS ladder. I haven't heard too many bad comments about them, especially the latest models.



Its my opinion that if you want a GPS, it might as well work well...otherwise, its just more crap to carry that doesn't perform when you need it.

Couldn't agree more. waste of money if they don't perform accurately and reliably.



These units 'will' work anywhere ie. dense canopy, remote locations. They also work well in your pockets...so whereas the cheaper ones need to be mounted on the bars etc...you can leave this in your bacg or pockets.
There waterproof, only need 2 AA, bright, cope with direct sunlight etc.
As for powering it, I use sanyo 'eneloop' rechargeables...they are awesome, and far less hassle than trying to find alternate power.


Thats a real important consideration ..... using replaceable batteries instead of being stuck not able to recharge the unit because you are out in the boondocks somewhere. Thats an issue with the Magellan's.



The maps for these are 'vector based' (calulcated line drawings) which means that they are resolution independant so don't worry about 1:50,000 and all that stuff. MAps and PC software are 'raster based' and rely on bitmaps and certain number of pixels to represent the image...these are dependant on resolution.


I'm not sure i understand what you just said ... about the above. ;) I want to be able to work with a map on the PC and load it onto my GPS. I know nothing at all about how it all works .... just as long as it does !!



I'll end the 'quick' reply now...as I feel I am going on :-)
LEt me know if you want more...
vege


Thanks for your educated input Vege !!