"Biker down" threads. Yes or no?

[Hitcher]

There has been some interesting discussion in other threads about the pluses and minuses associated with "biker down" threads.

Issues around privacy of natural persons, concern about fellow bikers, bikers being declared seriously injured or worse when they aren't (misrepresentation of facts), general nosiness, opportunities to lend support to bikers and their significant others (especially when they're KBers), immediate family members getting upset, etc.

So what do you guys think about this? Should such threads be allowed or not?

[boomer]

yeah why not, put them with "rides", it'll save Texmo a few key strokes and people will know he's returned at least, bike in/on tow :yes:

[boomer]

ps.. i don't think the mods need to put there noses in anything. Let people (posters or ensuing mobs ) exercise the control. It gets my heckles up when i read "Should... blah blah be allowed"

Fascist.

[onearmedbandit]

Yes they should, as long as care is taken by who ever posts in said threads, ie only posting confirmed info that will not be upsetting to family friends etc or is approved by either the rider or their family. Commonsense in other words.

[Grahameeboy]

I think there are more pluses and no actual harm is done...........look at the response to Inline.........I think that it is important for the family and friends to know that we care.

[onearmedbandit]

ps.. i don't think the mods need to put there noses in anything. Let people (posters or ensuing mobs ) exercise the control.

fascist bully boy.

It's our job to put our noses in, despite getting them more often than not 'tweaked'.

[Quasievil]

There has been some interesting discussion in other threads about the pluses and minuses associated with "biker down" threads.

Issues around privacy of natural persons, concern about fellow bikers, bikers being declared seriously injured or worse when they aren't (misrepresentation of facts), general nosiness, opportunities to lend support to bikers and their significant others (especially when they're KBers), immediate family members getting upset, etc.

So what do you guys think about this? Should such threads be allowed or not?


Many times in situations like this KB members have speculated and in some cases given facts and situations which comprimises any insurance position the rider may have.
Its not up to the general populas to say anything detailed about any situation involving a rider unless that rider gives the thumbs up.
It wasnt that long ago where stories where being told about a member on here and his Insurance claim was severly comprimised.
There are to many KB members overly eager to vioce "the goss" for some kind of hero status.
I voted against, if it aint ya business, shut it

[Grahameeboy]

It's our job to put our noses in, despite getting them more often than not 'tweaked'.

I agree....for what it is worth...

[scumdog]

I reckon they can be a positive thing, if the bin is as a result of mechanical failure or rider error and that reason is posted here it may save another person the grief of repeating the experience.

[boomer]

It's our job to put our noses in, despite getting them more often than not 'tweaked'.

I disagree, it's certainly not your 'job' to control :dodge:

[Grahameeboy]

Many times in situations like this KB members have speculated and in some cases given facts and situations which comprimises any insurance position the rider may have.
Its not up to the general populas to say anything detailed about any situation involving a rider unless that rider gives the thumbs up.
It wasnt that long ago where stories where being told about a member on here and his Insurance claim was severly comprimised.
There are to many KB members overly eager to vioce "the goss" for some kind of hero status.
I voted against, if it aint ya business, shut it

I guess this is where the mods come in so these problems are sorted.

[marty]

i would suggest most of the insurance issues have come from the riders themselves being loudmouthed about their off. hearsay holds no weight.

[Grahameeboy]

I disagree, it's certainly not your 'job' to control :dodge:

Sorry Boomer dear, I think that there has to be some control...........

[boomer]

Its not up to the general populas to say anything detailed about any situation involving a rider unless that rider gives the thumbs up.

It's called freedom of speech Quasi, right or wrong mate. Not even you, batman, can change that one ;)

[boomer]

Sorry Boomer dear, I think that there has to be some control...........


Cool.. you go live in the Ukraine then sweetheart :love:

[marty]

what, like a right to silence? fuck that! everyone should be compelled to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

[boomer]

what, like a right to silence? fuck that! everyone should be compelled to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

is that the fabricated truth as told by the boys in blue or the other truth?

[Grahameeboy]

Cool.. you go live in the Ukraine then sweetheart :love:

Pppfftt...I said some control just to keep the peace.....tell me any country where there is no control.......some say that Democracy is just 'Legalised Extortion'.............so is your other half letting you out tonight??:dodge:

[Ixion]

Are you talking scuttlebutt from a KB ride (" so and so ended up in the shrubbery"); or a report that is already appeared in the general news ("tragically a well respected X district motorcyclist was killed yesterday - see the Harold report ").

Once the matter is in the public domain it seems rather precious for motorcyclists, of all people, to close their eyes and pretend nothing has happened.

I suspect a good part of the angst about such threads is due to some motorcylists not wishing to face the facts of the dangerousness of what we do.

So long as the pretence can be maintained that "skills" and the magic gear will always keep a biker safe, people can feel complacent in their invulnerability. Reports of bikers for whom it didn't work shatter that composure. Not all can face with equanimity the reminder "There, but for the grace, etc".

I say yes. It behoves us to be reminded frequently that we are not invulnerable, and that the penalties for overdoing it can be serious.

[paturoa]

yes, with restraint, eg fatality

[Joni]

I said what I think earlier...


- these rider down, or RIP threads cause more damage than good, there have been times when we have all been RIP'sing and the poor bugger is not even dead... we have a thread about "discussing accidents" and I feel that until KB can take a more mature approach towards discussing these types of things maybe they should not be discussed.

[Karma]

there have been times when we have all been RIP'sing and the poor bugger is not even dead...

That'd be hilarious!

I'd have to paint my bike all white and ride around wearing a sheet... that'd scare the shit outta a few of you.

[jrandom]

Can't stifle the voice of the masses. Let the 'rider down' threads continue. If the rider in question or their family, etc, object, then mods should intervene.

rotten.com set a good example on this general issue by taking down the photographs of the machete'd dude from South Auckland leaking brains onto a shopping mall carpark after his family ran into them via Google. Remember that? The Herald even reported on it.

A default 'freedom of speech' position, modulated by common sense, is appropriate. But, then again, this forum is not about being nice to people.

A gedankenexperiment is in order.

Let's say, f'r'instance, I'm on a ride with Hitcher, he falls off in a horrible, horrible accident and amputates his goolies, and I rush to the nearest PC and post a 'Situation Vacant' ad with regards to the sexual servicing of Mrs Hitcher.

Q: Should the thread be deleted out of common decency?

A: Only if Southerners start volunteering.

[NhuanH]

Issues around privacy of natural persons
and what of persons of an unnatural disposition?

[boomer]

Pppfftt...I said some control just to keep the peace.....tell me any country where there is no control.......some say that Democracy is just 'Legalised Extortion'.............so is your other half letting you out tonight??:dodge:

i feel quite grown up and able/capable of abiding by a set of laws, well most of the ones i agree with, i don't need a subset of laws and controls thanks. pssst...my mrs does what i say otherwise she gets a black eye(luckily i live in a country where this is allowed & tolerated :p )

[Joni]

That'd be hilarious!Um actually no Weasel it was not - especially for the person who called to give condolences to the family... it was farken shite actually!

[justsomeguy]

That'd be hilarious!

I guess you weren't an active member then. The situation was actually horrible.

A lot worse than the trouble I caused with my intended pisstake prank that went utterly wrong.

I chose option 3 - No.

There used to be an unwritten rule on KB concerning posting about crashes. If you are not directly involved ==> :shutup: until the people directly involved have their say or make their intentions know.

Biker down usually means the biker's down and he/she isn't getting up in a hurry - ambulance called, unstable condition, hospitalisation required, fatality.

Minor accidents are usually refferred to as "Offs".

[boomer]

That'd be hilarious!

I'd have to paint my bike all white and ride around wearing a sheet... that'd scare the shit outta a few of you.

i thought border control had prevented foot and mouth outbreaks in NZ?

[terbang]

I think its fine and, as has been said before, there is an informative and even contemplative value to be gained from biker down threads. I havn't yet seen any such threads really stepping over the line. I remember back to the Korowetere threads and also IL4's recent threads having a positive effect on KB community that didn't need moderating. If I or my family were faced with a difficult situation then I would be happy that the understanding of my own misfortunes could possibly help someone else in the future. The protocol that I would like to suggest is that if we are out there riding (as a bunch of KBers) and someone has a bin, that those on the ride refrain from too much online analysis. At least until the binner has had their say first. Its not a biggie with the cops but Insurance companies are allways trying to weasel out of paying people out and they could easily arm themselves with a barrage of fish hooked questions during any claim based on Info gleaned from this site.

[Blondini]

Um actually no Weasel it was not - especially for the person who called to give condolences to the family... it was farken shite actually!

I think what toni says carries some weight On one hand it is good to show support toward biker down and perhaps learn from others mistakes and on the other hand the facts have to be correct and in case of more serious injuries ,confirmation,someone senior could ring the hospital patient enquiries for info.At the end of the day I was amazed how everyone gave such support (and that is continuing)to inline.This is a credit to you all:rockon:

[Karma]

You guys worry too much eh.

A serious incident / fatality I can understand some restraint being taken, but if someone just bins it and no major injuries then whats the problem with posting that up?

[terbang]

Let's say, f'r'instance, I'm on a ride with Hitcher, he falls off in a horrible, horrible accident and amputates his goolies,

Too late, I think he left them hanging on the back of a stopped 4 wheel drive..!

[scumdog]

Q: Should the thread be deleted out of common decency?

A: Only if Southerners start volunteering.

DECENCY? decency? we don't need no stinkin' decency!!

[MattRSK]

I found it quite usefull posting when I crashed. I got some information about what to do next time etc..

[Blondini]

Biker down usually means the biker's down and he/she isn't getting up in a hurry - ambulance called, unstable condition, hospitalisation required, fatality.

Minor accidents are usually refferred to as "Offs".

Good point:yes:

[The_Dover]

do I get my own sub-forum?

[marty]

Um actually no Weasel it was not - especially for the person who called to give condolences to the family... it was farken shite actually!

so was that the fault of the threader or the threadee?

[marty]

is that the fabricated truth as told by the boys in blue or the other truth?

neither - the Kahui truth

[Big Dave]

do I get my own sub-forum?

You could qualify for a sub-species, phylum even.

[RiderInBlack]

Sorry have not time to read all this thread today but here's my view anyway:

I am definitely for Biker Down threads as long as the Biker/s Names or any anything that makes it easliy to ID them is not posted until they or someone close to them has posed it. That we try a keep our judments on the accident restrained out of respect for those involved. Especially if we were not there as we don't know all the facts.

Why I think they are an important put of the site is due to the following:

It reminds us of the risks of riding and the choice we have made to accept that risk as part of riding, as well as encouraging us to take a bit more care while riding.
It allows those effected by the accident ta see that they are not alone and that there is a large group of people here that do care and are willing to give support.It is part of what brings out some of the best in KB'ers. OK there can be a few arses but ya just have ta see how they are viewed/dealt to by many of the mainsteam KB'ers to see how much KB'ers in general do care about those effected.

If we loose those threads we loose part of the Spirit of KB, which IMHO make this site truely worthy.

[SPman]

......dangerousness.......



...........dangerousness!!! ?????

[Big Dave]

There is a category for wheels and brakes? - surely just make one for 'biker down' and then you only need to look if you want to.

[The_Dover]

neither - the Kahui truth

that's what I heard man....

[StoneChucker]

I think these threads should definitely continue. I voted yes with moderator support. I don't however, mean that the moderator should force their opinion by deleting, changing or otherwise interfering with the posts.

For example, Member1 says Member2 went down here, and their condition is xyz... The Moderator might like to check with Member1 as to where they got the facts, rather than just deleting the details and dismissing them as heresay.

I was glad to have my accident posted here, it was lovely to know there were so many visitors at the hospital. If it wasn't posted, my room/area at the hospital would have been as empty as an empty thing!

What happens out on the road is public knowledge. It isn't up to anyone to decide whether or not we hear about it. 99.87% of the time people are genuinely concerned, and want to help if they can, whether that be a visit in hospital or even just a prayer.

[Blondini]

:gob:UMMMMMMMMM In trouble again?:dodge:

[Hitcher]

Malicious defamatory gossip is inappropriate and potentially legally actionable.

I have edited Julie's thread above on this basis. Mr Dover may wish to reconsider his post, which is more than just teetering...

[boomer]

oH PLEASE HITCHER, it's NZ not the usa for goodness sakes

[onearmedbandit]

I disagree, it's certainly not your 'job' to control :dodge:

I never said 'control' mate, but with some of the events around here it sometimes feels like I have to 'control' what is allowed on the board.


i feel quite grown up and able/capable of abiding by a set of laws, well most of the ones i agree with, i don't need a subset of laws and controls thanks. pssst...my mrs does what i say otherwise she gets a black eye(luckily i live in a country where this is allowed & tolerated :p )

I'm glad you can boomer, and I've not had any issue raised with any of your posts. However you should have a look at my email and pm box, a constant stream of issues to clear up. I'm not bitching, just stating the facts.

The relevance to this thread is that in certain threads regarding a rider down situation a mod may be required to either close/remove the thread or edit certain posts due to a justified member complaint or request by the victim or their family.

[Hitcher]

oH PLEASE HITCHER, it's NZ not the usa for goodness sakes

That's why I edited Julie's post.

[The_Dover]

That's why I edited Julie's post.

It's NORTH KOREA

and Hitcher is Kim il-jong!!! in cognito :shit:

[chanceyy]

I find them quite useful, then of course there is the human factor to be nosy & find out all about stuff

I do think that the moderators should have the ability to ensure that the thread stays on topic .. with so many threads being hijacked these days its important as a learning tool

I also agree with the comments that instead of rider dow, rider off would be more appropriate & generally talked bout until he/she can post on their own behalf .. of couse the inline thread was not possible & the support for inline & donna has been amazing .. I would hate to see that being not allowed in future

I also note that mods have also advised certain posters to keep it to topic .. quite rightly so

[Shadows]

I do think any discussion surrounding the particular circumstances, or causes, of a bin should be initiated by the "binner", but that doesn't necessarily preclude somebody from starting a thread about a bin in an effort to find out what happened.

And now, for my next thread...

[bell]

I find them quite useful, then of course there is the human factor to be nosy & find out all about stuff

I do think that the moderators should have the ability to ensure that the thread stays on topic .. with so many threads being hijacked these days its important as a learning tool

I also agree with the comments that instead of rider dow, rider off would be more appropriate & generally talked bout until he/she can post on their own behalf .. of couse the inline thread was not possible & the support for inline & donna has been amazing .. I would hate to see that being not allowed in future

I also note that mods have also advised certain posters to keep it to topic .. quite rightly so

x 1 well put there.:yes:

[nadroj]

You could qualify for a sub-species, phylum even.

Certainly no class!

[The_Dover]

i like them so i can take the piss out of arseholes that wheelie into the back of cars and hit turkeys and shit.

as long as no one IS seriously hurt or in an unknown condition.

if it's just some pillock (ok, some other pillock than me) pranging his penis extension then it's in public anyway!!

[Ixion]

...........dangerousness!!! ?????

Sorry. Dangerousity. Silly mme.

[The_Dover]

Certainly no class!

that's rich coming from sensei's shitstain who was sending dirty pm's to my missus!

[boomer]

This shits better than Coro.

Dover ya big pussy.. you deleted ya shit. would have been cleaner and quicker to add 'alledgedly'.

Jealous partner, fascist ruler/wannabe dick taker, desperate virgins, dislexic geriatrics, rug munchin salad eaters...


What more could you ask for on a monday evenin?

[mikey]

well i dont want any of you cunts at my funeral, so no.

[saul]

Just no. :innocent:

Thanks:yes:

[u4ea]

I do think any discussion surrounding the particular circumstances, or causes, of a bin should be initiated by the "binner", but that doesn't necessarily preclude somebody from starting a thread about a bin in an effort to find out what happened.

And now, for my next thread...

yes....from the horses mouth is always better than assumption.......

[Lou Girardin]

Post the fact that it's happened, but ban the maudlin shit.

[mikey]

do you want people takign advantage of you/your death, claiming bereavement leave so they can go out for a ride?
all you have in common is two wheels.........

[BAD DAD]

I vote yes, and hope I don't feature on that thread at any stage soon.

[Maha]

i would suggest most of the insurance issues have come from the riders themselves being loudmouthed about their off. hearsay holds no weight.


You are onto it Marty....nothing said on here would influence an insurance claim, unless it is said by the claimaint...:done:

[Quasievil]

I think that what is posted about an incident and how it is presented is the main issue.
Who remembers the incident with Jono, who had insurance issues because of what was posted on KB
Who remembers what a certain member posted about a crash which never happened, and that persons partner found out about the crash (how did she feel)
Im sorry if some of you disagree with me, however in general I find history shows this is not a good idea, if youre not involved or you dont have permission , its not your business, and your best cause of action would be to leave it alone (thats my advise)
Infact I can recall a few more situations which have caused issues.

If I crash and someone posts about details without my permission I wont be happy about it you can take that as a fact.

[Mom]

There has been some interesting discussion in other threads about the pluses and minuses associated with "biker down" threads.

Issues around privacy of natural persons, concern about fellow bikers, bikers being declared seriously injured or worse when they aren't (misrepresentation of facts), general nosiness, opportunities to lend support to bikers and their significant others (especially when they're KBers), immediate family members getting upset, etc.

So what do you guys think about this? Should such threads be allowed or not?

You know one of the nicest things about belonging to the KB community is the noseyness of the place.......One thing that I really love about KB is the certain knowledge that if Maha man and I ever get stuck, broken down or heaven help us have an off, one txt will be enough to get us some help....

After that I really dont care what is said about how it happened, what happened or anything else. There is nothing wrong with a bit of speculation/gossip call it what you will, the bottom line is the majority here come from a OMG! perspective not a shit stirring one.

Someone here mentioned Inline 4 and the support shown to him, what a fantastic place to be a member of! I really dont think there is any malice in any of the "biker down" threads, i see it coming from a hope they are ok, and a did anyone see what happened perspective.....for me I dont have a problem with them at all

[Motu]

I think there is too much hand wringing and angst amoungst members on crash and RIP threads,I seldom read them,just page after page of one liners,I'm not reading that crap.I read the facts and don't come back to the thread.Keep them,but don't go all maudlin over them.

[scumdog]

This biker is going down - and CB is about to find out.

But ya can't beat just cruising around Phoenix at this tme of year!!

Oh, in case ya haven't moticed. we have a bucket of Margarita.

[Mr. Peanut]

Because of threads like this, I've changed my attitude towards riding. Sooner or later everyone becomes more responsible; I'd rather not wait for a tragedy of my own.

[SixPackBack]

A lot worse than the trouble I caused with my intended pisstake prank that went utterly wrong..

Thats a matter of opinion, hundreds of people where convinced a freind, father and husband with serious spinal injuries was in hospital. [Over it now!!]
What many fail to realise is the combined effect "rider down" posts have with a wide ranging group of people.
I would not be sure that moderator intervention would be effective due to the time lapse between posting and the thread being pulled.

[Squeak the Rat]

If I crash and someone posts about details without my permission I wont be happy about it you can take that as a fact.

Understand your viewpoint, but equally if any one on here was lying in a coma for 10 weeks most people wouldn't be happy about not knowing.....



IMHO, banning biker down threads and RIP threads is like not talking about suicide. It makes us all feel more secure by burying our heads in the sand, but may actually do more good to understand why it's happening.

But that requires all posters to discuss things in a mature and considerate manner......

[Joni]

But that requires all posters to discuss things in a mature and considerate manner......And this is where your arguement falls flat... I agree with you 100% btw, but how do you suggest this wonderous thing can be made to happen?

[The_Dover]

Infact I can recall a few more situations which have caused issues.


now why did I read that first word as INFRACT??

[Patrick]

is that the fabricated truth as told by the boys in blue or the other truth?

That would be the bullshite spouted by the defendants then?

[Macktheknife]

I think they should stay, and have some mod influence.
IL4 is a great example of what the KB community can do for each other when it wants to. No doubt this will continue into the future.
We are all subject to the same laws of physics and when one of us gets it wrong we offer support, sympathy, humour, pisstake, and assistance in nearly equal measure.
If anyone goes over the top then Mods step in and deal with it, I only have one limit on this, there should never be another incident when someone is said to have crashed when they haven't as a 'joke'.

[Ghost Lemur]

And this is where your arguement falls flat... I agree with you 100% btw, but how do you suggest this wonderous thing can be made to happen?

While I agree. I'd rather let the odd troll through than (like the rest of society) moderate/regulate to the lowest common denominator.

I mean look at how many threads there are birating the world we now live in as being a nanny state. I'd rather KB didn't turn into one either.

[Squeak the Rat]

And this is where your arguement falls flat... I agree with you 100% btw, but how do you suggest this wonderous thing can be made to happen?

Unfortunately you simply can't make anyone do anything on here. You can only edit, discipline or delete (ie moderate)

IMHO though, the best way of would be to agree to appropriate conduct with the majority of users, and then have members self moderate threads by keeping threads on track.

This info needs to be passed on to new members somehow, and reiterated with old members as the passage of time erodes memory.

Which I sort of think is what's happening now in this thread... (ie you may already be doing what I would suggest)

[boomer]

That would be the bullshite spouted by the defendants then?

if i'm that man.. then it's the gods honest truth !

[Patrick]

if i'm that man.. then it's the gods honest truth !

Fair enough... call it "AS YOU SEE IT"....

[Joni]

Which I sort of think is what's happening now in this thread... (ie you may already be doing what I would suggest)Once again Squeak and I really am not picking on you here.... but this has all been done before. Setting guidelines etc...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=19432

99% of the people will stay respectfull and self moderate as you imply... but its the 1% that cause the damage, and at times the damage can be of large consequance.

[The_Dover]

they don't call me the human wrecking ball for nothing.....

[Joni]

Come on Ben this is serious shit.... we are trying to find a way for a really serious thing that affects many lives to be dealt with.

[The_Dover]

It's pretty fuckin obvious really.

Don't post hearsay or unconfirmed detail.

If you were with someone and they crashed then tell the story, if you feel it is newsworthy.

If you passed a crash, post what you saw (if you really feel that it's necessary)

If you heard a rumour for a friend of a friend who lives somewhere near the cuntry and likes KFC that The_Dover got killed doing drunken wheelies up Queen St whilst being chased by the pigs and wearing nothing but crotchless panties and a peephole bra then perhaps you should validate the facts before saying anything.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Commonsense should prevail. If the person that has the off posts the thread I don't see any harm in that. I certainly received helpful advice when I had mine. And I appreciated the good wishes - stuck at home on my own recovering! The sense of fellowship/caring - crikey my own family still hasn't rung me to see if I'm alright!

A good reminder too that we are not invincible. Accidents do happen and so quickly!!

[Patrick]

If you heard a rumour for a friend of a friend who lives somewhere near the cuntry and likes KFC that The_Dover got killed doing drunken wheelies up Queen St whilst being chased by the pigs and wearing nothing but crotchless panties and a peephole bra then perhaps you should validate the facts before saying anything.

What night you planning on doing this? Wanna make sure I'm not in town to see that...

[ajturbo]

this is an open forum... we hassell mrs Clark, why can we not hassell anyone else?... if i dick off ( i mean WHEN) i expect to be hasselled...:sunny:

[Hitcher]

i expect to be hasselled

For not being able to spell hassle?

[Ixion]

. if i dick off ( i mean WHEN) i expect to be tasselled...:sunny:

Indeed, a fate worse than death. Condemned to an eternity of Harley Davidsons ?

[The_Dover]

Indeed, a fate worse than death. Condemned to an eternity of Harley Davidsons ?

and only scumdog as a drinking, dancing and rooting partner.

save me maurice, save me...

[ajturbo]

For not being able to spell hassle?
yer that and lots of other things.....lol
funny i knew it looked wrong but for the life of me i just couldn't see where !!!:sunny:

[ajturbo]

Indeed, a fate worse than death. Condemned to an eternity of Harley Davidsons ?
no if that happens.. just shoot me...:shit:

[Ghost Lemur]

Indeed, a fate worse than death. Condemned to an eternity of Harley Davidsons ?

Yeah, just ask scumdog. One little indescretion in childhood and he's still paying for it. :dodge:

[scumdog]

Indeed, a fate worse than death. Condemned to an eternity of Harley Davidsons ?

'Ere, watchit you!

[scumdog]

rooting partner.

save me maurice, save me...

:gob: So you're a sheila after all!!!

And why do you want somebody to save your Oxford???