Servicing an "older" bike

[MikeL]

I have been a loyal customer of Mt Eden Motorcycles for several years. Both my bikes have been serviced there regularly. I went in yesterday to book the Honda in for a service, only to be told that they won't do it. New policy: bikes older than 5 years take too long, too much hassle, not economical, blah blah blah. WTF???

Thoroughly bewildered I am. Does this policy make any sense at all? If my 1989 bike genuinely takes longer to service than a 2006 bike, I'll pay the extra cost.
Now I'm faced with taking the bike somewhere else, further away and a lot less convenient for me.

I'm not a happy chappy. If Mt Eden don't want my Honda, they're not going to get my XJR either. Or my money for accessories or anything else. :angry:

[Ixion]

Well, that's all my bikes out then. 'Twould seem that Mt Eden don't really want to do servicing, just have to for new bikes.

Just as well I do my own, eh.

Silly though, 5 years is not much. One must assume that they reckon their new bike customers will never be able to keep a bike for more than five years . But they sell secondhand bikes more than 5 years old. So presumably they won't service what they sell.

Note not to ever buy a bike from Mt Eden

(BTW I believe Experience BMW will be happy to service any BMW ever made)

[The Stranger]

Motohaus is not that far away from Mt Eden Motorcycles.

[jim.cox]

I have been a loyal customer of Mt Eden Motorcycles for several years. Both my bikes have been serviced there regularly. I went in yesterday to book the Honda in for a service, only to be told that they won't do it. New policy: bikes older than 5 years take too long, too much hassle, not economical, blah blah blah. WTF???



Time to learn to do it yourself ?

You can you know, it's not that hard :)

=mjc=

[Motu]

As a repairer I can see the sense in that,although I'd say 10 years,5 years is a bit extreme.There are a lot of unrelated things that can go wrong when fiddling around with an older bike,and we've all seen how the bike shops get blasted on this forum for doing nothing more than try to fix some overprice piece of crap.It's unprofitable to waste time chasing faults that the customer won't pay for because ''there was nothing wrong with it before''.Think of it as the down side of Consumer Rights - the consumer has been given far too much power,we now have a generation of consumers who now know they can hold a business accountable for their own stupidity.If I was working on new vwehicles I wouldn't allow older stuff into the shop either.

[WRT]

Interesting . . . I see they have 23 bikes listed on their website that are at least 5 years old . . .

[Devil]

What part of town are you in, Mike?
Always had great service from Spectrum in Takapuna.

[BNZ]

What part of town are you in, Mike?
Always had great service from Spectrum in Takapuna.

Me too. I do my own oil changes, plugs, minor stuff etc but use spectrum for anything above this.

[jrandom]

What the hell?

I never grumped about spending $600 per service at Mt Eden MC for my '92 Zeal. I was happy, in fact, that someone was taking the time to look after the old girl. Surely billable workshop hours are profitable?

Sounds like laziness to me, not good business. But maybe your average workshop customer is more cuntish than I give them credit for.

A sad day indeed.

[MSTRS]

This will get more common too. Mechanics are now 'technicians'. This means that they replace, not fix, stuff. Which also means that planned obselescence is beginning to bite.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

You book your pride n'joy in for a service. And thats what they should provide. Service. Not ' it's to old ' or something ,WTF, sounds like marketing suicide. Have the management there thought this thing through ? You can't sell 5 year old bikes but then refuse to service them. I mean.....really ?

[The Stranger]

As a repairer I can see the sense in that,although I'd say 10 years,5 years is a bit extreme.There are a lot of unrelated things that can go wrong when fiddling around with an older bike,and we've all seen how the bike shops get blasted on this forum for doing nothing more than try to fix some overprice piece of crap.It's unprofitable to waste time chasing faults that the customer won't pay for because ''there was nothing wrong with it before''.Think of it as the down side of Consumer Rights - the consumer has been given far too much power,we now have a generation of consumers who now know they can hold a business accountable for their own stupidity.If I was working on new vwehicles I wouldn't allow older stuff into the shop either.

Agh, my worst nightmare... Agreeing with Motu.

We get it with computers. Someone wants their Windows 98 machine repaired. You just can't do it and actually make money.

[sunhuntin]

thats not good is it? seems to be the way things are going. i had a friend in canada...needed work done on his early 80s harley motor....the nearest dealer refused to even look at it, with the same excuse "too old" wtf? so, my buddy brought the motor and some beers to my partners place, got out some tools and a blow torch and nearly burnt the house down. lol.

take it elsewhere. thats what i did after repeated crap service...

[Ixion]

So, assume that everyone takes the same approach. Where does that leaves bike owners. Unless you can do your own (getting harder , with computer systems anbd such like) that means that a bike has to be regarded as a disposable thing, junk it after 6 years.

Buggered if I'd ever buy a bike on that basis.

Reality is of course that there'll always be independants will service the older stuff. But I thinbk it says a lot about Mt Edens service ethic (or lack of it) that they brought in such a policy without making some arrangement with one (or more) of those independants, so that they could refer owners of older machines to them .No "Sorry , Sir, we can't handle those older machines . But we have an agreement with X and Y , they're very good and experienced and will be happy to help you. I'll just give them a call for you". Nope, just "Piss off".

One more bike shop off the list, I guess.

[Drum]

What a bloody disgraceful attitude.

I suggest a boycott on all their services.

[scracha]

Disgusting. Whoever they have a franchise with (Kawasaki or whatever) complain directly to them.

[MikeL]

What part of town are you in, Mike?
Always had great service from Spectrum in Takapuna.

Not on the Shore. I'm in Onehunga, working in Newmarket and/or University. That's why Mt Eden was so convenient.

I'm not going back to Red Baron unless as a last resort. AMPS would be O.K. if they are willing to do it. Where exactly is Motohaus??

[Ixion]

Western Springs Road. Not far from Mt Eden.

[Motu]

sounds like marketing suicide. Have the management there thought this thing through ? ?

Who has been longest in the motorcycle industry in Auckland city and still runs a sucessful opperation? Back in the '70's he started a ''I don't work on old shit'' policy....so where did that get him?

[MWVT]

I take Motus point that no one wants to be chasing problems round in circles on an old POS that the customer is unwilling to pay for.

BUT, if you explained to them that you weren't a prick, you had been using their services for many years, and that you were willing to pay for genuine workshop hours (provided they communicate effectively, why those hours were necessary), why not. Surely they set their workshop rates at such a point that they can turn a profit on them.

And 5 years, sounds pretty short to me too.

[WRT]

Agh, my worst nightmare... Agreeing with Motu.

We get it with computers. Someone wants their Windows 98 machine repaired. You just can't do it and actually make money.

I'd agree with you if we were talking computers where your charging ~$100 per hour to look at a Win98 PC thats worth $200 tops. But, we are talking about a perhaps $50-60 per hour charge to look at something (and I'm talking their oldest bike for sale, a 1979 XL500) that's worth $2.5k - according to them anyway.

Does this mean that the XL500 hasnt been looked at before they put it on sale?

If it was me, I'd say to the customer, I can have a look at it for you, but given the age parts etc might be hard to come by. There will be a minimum charge of $100 as we will need to spend some time diagnosing it and trying to track parts down, but I cant guarantee that we will be able to fix the problem. This will cover around an hour and a half of fking around, the first hour to see if its something that can be fixed, the last half an hour to reassemble back to how it came in if the problem cant be solved.

Obviously something major like a big end gone or a leg out the side you'd tell them up front, dont even bother, but I'm assuming for the purposes of this thread that its just coming in for a service or some sort of minor tune up.

MOST customers (admittedly there will always be the odd wanker) will accept that (so long as the dealer is upfront about it) and say ah well, at least you tried. BTW, how much to trade up to something you can get parts for?

[Ixion]

I think I would distinguish between an agent, a place that sells bikes, and an independant repairer.

The independant bike fixer (bike version of Mr Motu), he will often specialise. If he decides to specialise in newer stuff, well, fair enough.

But an agent for XXX make, I see that as different. I reckon if you take on the agency for a make you have some sort of obligation to at least make best efforts for any bike of that make. Granted, best efforts may not amount to much if the bike is really old, but in my mind, if you put out the sign "Honda Dealer" you ought to be willing at least to have a go at any Honda that comes in.

Bike shop selling bikes, if you're willing to sell old ones, you ought to be willing to service them. If the shop has a policy that they don't sell anything older than three years old (three years, then allows two years of service time), fair enough. But selling 10 year old bikes with a not more than 5 years old service policy. Not on.

[jonbuoy]

maybe they don't want to work on it because they are not Honda dealers and don't have the info/tools to fix anything unexpected?

[MSTRS]

.... willing at least to have a go at any Honda that comes in...

Customer - can you fix my 1995 XYZ Kawasuki?
Technician - hmmm, I'll have a go.
Cust - don't you know what you are doing?
Tech - not on these age machines, no.
Cust - but you'll 'have a go' and you will charge me $60/hr labour?
Tech - yep.
Cust - fuck off.

Mt Eden do have a point.

[Ghost Lemur]

Agh, my worst nightmare... Agreeing with Motu.

We get it with computers. Someone wants their Windows 98 machine repaired. You just can't do it and actually make money.

I'm sorry but that's bollocks.

For starters motorcycles don't have a lifecycle of 2 years. Secondly, it doesn't cost more to repair these bikes than to replace them.

And for your last sentence. When I was a tech (not that long ago). I did indeed make a very handsome sum from repairing "older" comps. Generally because the company used proprietary OS dependant software on it and so although the "repair costs" were twice replacement value it was still more worthwhile to them than having to source and purchase more modern software, retrain staff, etc, etc.

Back on the topic itself.
I agree that it sounds like they're now employing motorcycle technicians not mechanics. Therefore are incapable of performing the jobs required. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense, as Fish says, billable hours are exactly that irrespective of what's being worked on.

Personally if I was a bike mechanic I'd want to work on the largest variety of bikes (old new road dirt 2 stroke 4 stroke twin il4 etc etc) possible in order to be the best possible mechanic which obviously requires a wealth of experience.

It seems like a lot of other things. Getting so called mechanics who aren't going to have 1/10th of the skills their predecessors had.

[Lord Derosso]

I brought my 1998 GSX600F from Wellington MCC with 3500 odd kms on the clock. I have still to take her in for her 5000 km C service and they hinted to me that should something real 'bad' go wrong with the engine, they wouldn't expect me to pay for a replacement part due to the extremely low mileage as its covered by Suzuki. The bike isnt under 'normal' factory warranty anymore due to it been 8 years old but if they are prepared to go to this extra mile do you think they would also tell me to toss off and get a general service somewhere esle based solely on the age of my bike? Get real.

What if I turned up with a Borough Superior or Vincent Black Shadow? Would they say, Nay too old? Doubt it. That sort of machine would be a dream to have to deal with I would imagine. And what about HD's ? They are still expensive machines at age 5?. Seems like this other crowd want's the best of both worlds. Surely they wouldn't sell an old bike then tell you to P off at service time? I would love their response on that question.Go somewhere esle and stay with them. The other place is on its way out no doubt. And yes, it does cost a lot to service bikes anyway so don't they want to keep their guys busy and in jobs's?

[Motu]

Secondly, it doesn't cost more to repair these bikes than to replace them.

It seems like a lot of other things. Getting so called mechanics who aren't going to have 1/10th of the skills their predecessors had.

I am a parts replacer - I am able to repair 90% of the parts I replace....but I dare not.I blame Consumer Rights and cuntish customers for the dumbing down of the skills of my lifetime.

I am working on a 1973 Mercury Marquis at the moment - I have Carta Blanch to do whatever I like,repair,replace or just do whatever I want.I wouldn't go near such a heap of crap otherwise.But - it is a car we can repair,it's actualy a pleasure to fix this thing,revive skills I will lose in time.Just as well I have my old bikes to work on.

[BNZ]

Maybe the intend to target the newer bike market as a whole. They could be looking at rebranding their image?

[The Stranger]

I'd agree with you if we were talking computers where your charging ~$100 per hour to look at a Win98 PC thats worth $200 tops.

Yeah, correct it is not the same, but many of the issues are similar in that time is wasted beyond what you and the customer would reasonably expect.

Often even when you write off a portion of your time the charge is still in the customers eyes excessive. The repairer winds up not happy and the customer winds up not happy.

Who wins?

[Ixion]

Does it not say something about the engineering standards of modern bikes that such a policy would even be considered?

[MikeL]

Just to add a slightly different perspective:

My car mechanic, who has a general workshop in Newmarket and does nothing different from any others, apart from being meticulous, reliable and honest (and no, I'm not going to tell you who is is in case he gets too busy to book me in, as he usually does, at a moment's notice) has been quite happy to work on my 1960 Ford 107E within the limitations of parts availability (and I'm quite happy to accept that, as I can source many of the parts myself). I know that with old vehicles the cost of labour can be frightening, but if I'm silly enough to be sentimentally attached to a particular bike or car and want to hang onto it, and am prepared to pay the cost, why would the garage refuse to handle it? Isn't my money just as good as anyone else's? The excuse that they don't have workshop manuals for older vehicles won't wash - I've got all the manuals and specs. What's the answer? All I can think of is laziness and/or unskilled staff.

[Motu]

For sure - you can rebuild a small block Chev using all the good stuff cheaper than you can rebuild a Japanese single cyl motorcycle engine.

[Motu]

What's the answer?

It's not you Mike,it's all the others who have soured the deal before you.You pay the price for some arsehole who screwed them over a job gone wrong for no reason of theirs,but the unreasonablness of the customer.

[mstriumph]

i used to get the '72 bonnie serviced at a classic bike place in perth but nobody wanted to touch the '73 honda cb350 ........

luckily i've always had friends :sunny:

[vifferman]

Yeah, Motohaus.
Five years? Pfffft.... That's nothing.
Can't remember all my bikes, but my VF500 was 9 years old when I bought it, my VFR750 was 9, my VTR1000 was 6ish, and the VFR was 3 (now 5).

They may be missing out on some hassles, but also some big money. I know cars are a bit different, but we've spent a fortune on ours, especially one of the Peugeots which is now 16 and has cost in the vicinity of probably $7k in the last couple of years. Imagine if they'd said, "Nah - it's too old. No way will we fix it!" :weird:

Give Motohaus a ring: 815 8384.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Who has been longest in the motorcycle industry in Auckland city and still runs a sucessful opperation? Back in the '70's he started a ''I don't work on old shit'' policy....so where did that get him?
__________________
So is this not a new policy ?
I thought people had been getting older bikes serviced there ?

[kiwifruit]

glad we don't have that problem in Taupo!

[jrandom]

My car mechanic, who has a general workshop in Newmarket...

Teehee. Bet I know who that is. A friend of mine worked for him quite a few years back; he's been in business for ever. You're quite right, too. Best place for miles. Expect to be kicked straight out the door if you ask for a half-arsed job because you don't want to pay for the workshop time.

You're doing bloody well if he lets you in at a moment's notice. I usually have to wait a week, although I'm sure that if I didn't keep skiving off to another mate's shop to get the job done cheaper I'd get slightly more preferential treatment.

Any idea who the Buell that I keep tripping over belongs to? I always forget to ask.

[JimO]

i recently heard of a bike shop not wanting to trade a early 90s bike because of the liabilaty of the consumer gurantees act if ther were problems with it down the track after it was onsold

[The_Dover]

glad we don't have that problem in Taupo!

cos you've got the only bike in Taupo less than 5 years old.

peasants...

[kiwifruit]

cos you've got the only bike in Taupo less than 5 years old.

peasants...

lmao
:lol:

[Gremlin]

mmm not having any trouble getting my 1996 7 serviced... going in on Thursday for another...

maybe a way to try and limit their backlog? I booked my service over 2 weeks ago :weep:

[Paul in NZ]

WHAT? You mean to tell me you can pay other people to service your bike?? Shit - why didn't you tell me earlier - all the wasted hours in the garage drinking beer and listening to shitty old music.....

Oh wait... I like drinking beer and shitty old music....

[Ixion]

Renfield is looking better and better

What's the deal with Harleys. They seem to have been sort of the same since about for ever. Would AMPS service, say, a 1970 Harley if someone turned up with one ?

[Ixion]

WHAT? You mean to tell me you can pay other people to service your bike?? Shit - why didn't you tell me earlier - all the wasted hours in the garage drinking beer and listening to shitty old music.....

Oh wait... I like drinking beer and shitty old music....

I remember as a lad, being quite genuinely astonished when I found out that some people took their bikes to dealers to be serviced. It had never occured to me, I sort of assumed that everyone did their own.

[MSTRS]

I remember as a lad, being quite genuinely astonished when I found out that some people took their bikes to dealers to be serviced. It had never occured to me, I sort of assumed that everyone did their own.

Mind you...they probably didn't live on 'our' side of the tracks.

[Motu]

I remember as a lad, being quite genuinely astonished when I found out that some people took their bikes to dealers to be serviced. It had never occured to me, I sort of assumed that everyone did their own.

Yeah,I can't really imagine anyone not working on their bikes - that's the whole point isn't it? But these days bikes are an accessorary not a lifestyle,instead of leaning about this thing that gives you so much enjoyment,there is a little man who takes care of all the details for you.

[Paul in NZ]

On the other hand - I don't think I've ever owned a bike that still (or ever) had an effective or existant dealer network - hmmm...

[Gremlin]

Yeah,I can't really imagine anyone not working on their bikes - that's the whole point isn't it?
err... I will work on the little simple things... but I would kill myself if I tried to properly work on them (either during the process, or the after-effect). Also the hassle of dealing with the old oil etc, you can't just give the garden a water any more, and in suburbia, its even harder.

I have no mechanical aptitude whatsoever... I will keep on working, to afford to pay for the bikes to be serviced :first: Additionally, I use mine almost everyday, its my only transport etc, and I can't afford to not have it running, either through my breaking something, or not doing it right.

[Motu]

I have no mechanical aptitude whatsoever... .

In the ''good old days'':violin: people learned mechanical skills,if the bike broke down you found out why,and then fixed it.Lot's of head scratching on the side of the road....but you got it sorted.People who weren't prepard to get their hands dirty and look after their bike were out of the scene pretty quickly.

[AllanB]

Crap attitude. I never had any problems with my old 82 kawasaki 750 twin (I sold it this year), I had the shop set shims and carbs, I did the oil/filters.

They should make more money - hours are hours, older parts are dearer (more margin).

Basically if there are issues they notice or recommend fixing soonish during a service phone the customer or note it on the job sheet and tell them when they collect it.

Hey the VTR1000 is pretty much unchanged over the past 5 years - what will they do with these.

[scumdog]

I am a parts replacer - I am able to repair 90% of the parts I replace....but I dare not.I blame Consumer Rights and cuntish customers for the dumbing down of the skills of my lifetime.

I am working on a 1973 Mercury Marquis at the moment - I have Carta Blanch to do whatever I like,repair,replace or just do whatever I want.I wouldn't go near such a heap of crap otherwise.But - it is a car we can repair,it's actualy a pleasure to fix this thing,revive skills I will lose in time.Just as well I have my old bikes to work on.

What colour is the Merc? Not a dark green perchance?

[scumdog]

Just to add a slightly different perspective:

My car mechanic, who has a general workshop in Newmarket and does nothing different from any others, apart from being meticulous, reliable and honest (and no, I'm not going to tell you who is is in case he gets too busy to book me in, as he usually does, at a moment's notice) has been quite happy to work on my 1960 Ford 107E within the limitations of parts availability

These cars are so simple that the mechanic wouldn't even need a manual, it would be like a holiday.

THAT is the reason all our cars are pre '85 - in fact only one built in the '80's, the rest are '60's and earlier.

[Motu]

What colour is the Merc? Not a dark green perchance?

Black on black - no back seat,but a nice flat tray with rollers......

[Roj]

Haven't had any problems with the bike shops I deal with, when I forst got my bike back on the road after 7 years neglect the bike shop where happy to sort it out, cost a bit but it hasn't let me down since, only me not thinking about things properly that has caused any problems

[jrandom]

THAT is the reason all our cars are pre '85...

You got it.

For the same reason, my first car was a '63 Valiant AP-5. You could take a holiday inside that engine bay.

And, well. Bench seats. Say no more.

[Motu]

You don't have to go pre 1985.....you can get a 1990 Lada with 1960's technology....

[jrandom]

you can get a 1990 Lada with 1960's technology....

True story. I remember, when I was a wee 'un, mum and dad were buying a car, so we were doing the rounds of the dealers. Went to the Lada place, and the sales dude reinforced his pitch by giving one of the door panels a hefty boot and saying "look, no dent".

I got in big trouble at the next yard for trying the same stunt on a Corolla.

[Swoop]

True story... I got in big trouble at the next yard for trying the same stunt on a Corolla.
Classic!!!!!:yes: :Punk:

[rok-the-boat]

If you live nearby - North Shore - you're welcome to bring your bike around. I'll look at it / tell you what it needs / help you get there - for nothing.