Bye Bye Army APCs

[nudemetalz]

Once again, our government has backed down..

Well....the Army is disposing of the old APC's (Armoured Personnel Carriers) to a scrapyard to be cut up by Xmas for $500,000 after a deal with an Aussie Collector for $1M + was clamped by the F&#*&*N Yanks (no offence, Sarge) !!:mad:

These historical Vietnam War-era vehicles deserve a better fate than this.

What next ? The Skyhawks and MB339's ? :mad:

[ManDownUnder]

'tis a pain but I'm willing to bet those rules (right of veto on resale) were either a condition of sale, or a condition of a treatice of sorts we are party to.

Basic idea is to make sure weapons and similar don't get re-exported anywhere that will end up using it against the original source. It makes commercial and political sense to do that (for the US or source country) and it's a pain for us.

[Squeak the Rat]

I would have appreciated the option to buy one.

Ideal transport for mates to the rugby stadium through downtown auckland.....

[ManDownUnder]

I would have appreciated the option to buy one.

Ideal transport for mates to the rugby stadium through downtown auckland.....

hang about...

picture this - APC rugby! 15 a side, full on tackling etc. What a blast!

Or stock cars...!

Shit if they're to go to the crap heap why not make a spectacle of them first - maybe a fund raiser for something?

[Sniper]

We are a pacifist nation now, dont you know that, we dont want to offend the tree huggers too much, so we need to get rid of all the cool stuff that might hurt bad guys.

Fucken govt

[Colapop]

You'd be best to buy half a dozen or more - they break down alot.

[ManDownUnder]

You'd be best to buy half a dozen or more - they break down alot.

Honda APCs????

[Motu]

I had a lot of fun in my ex Army RL Bedford....the next step up would kinda interesting too.

[Colapop]

Honda APCs????
They aint Honda's Tonto.

[nudemetalz]

I had a lot of fun in my ex Army RL Bedford....the next step up would kinda interesting too.


Reckon you could buy an Army-surplus .50 cal for the top? I'd be more than happy to man it for you. First stop, Beehive.........

[Kickaha]

so we need to get rid of all the cool stuff that might hurt bad guys.

Fucken govt

We had 65 APC's and we bought 105 LAV's? yeah fucken govt what were they thinking

[ManDownUnder]

Reckon you could buy an Army-surplus .50 cal for the top? I'd be more than happy to man it for you. First stop, Beehive.........

I can see it now.

Oh Uncle Helen... your Air conditioning installers are here... :ar15::ar15: :ar15:

[nudemetalz]

I can see it now.

Oh Uncle Helen... your Air conditioning installers are here... :ar15::ar15: :ar15:

ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!

[Sniper]

We had 65 APC's and we bought 105 LAV's? yeah fucken govt what were they thinking

Dont get me started on what a waste of time and resources the LAVs were.

[nudemetalz]

Dont get me started on what a waste of time and resources the LAVs were.

Do they still have issues with them being very difficult to fit into the C-130's ?

[Sniper]

Do they still have issues with them being very difficult to fit into the C-130's ?

Im not 100% sure, but my mate whos a driver in 1st Batt says they still do. Im still trying to figure out why we needed 105 of the fucken things

[Pixie]

Do they still have issues with them being very difficult to fit into the C-130's ?

You can fit a LAV into a C - 130,you just have to remove the armaments and that suits our hippy govt just fine.

I wonder what the hag's smart comment about the APC's will be?
"Old,the wheels are a funny shape and they are the wrong colour"?
After her comments about the Huey being an old out of date helicopter
But the US still use them.
And the A4's which the US still use for training

[xwhatsit]

What was the (either 6-wheeled or 8-wheeled) APC/armoured vehicle type thing rolling down Queen St yesterday? Anybody else see that? Two guys in combat helmets sticking out the top, waving at the tourists taking photos with their camera phones. Wonder why it was there? Anybody know? Maybe to do with that bomb threat thing?

[Sniper]

What was the (either 6-wheeled or 8-wheeled) APC/armoured vehicle type thing rolling down Queen St yesterday? Anybody else see that? Two guys in combat helmets sticking out the top, waving at the tourists taking photos with their camera phones. Wonder why it was there? Anybody know? Maybe to do with that bomb threat thing?

Would have been a LAV on show if it looked something like this..


<img src=http://gallery.blakjak.net/d/1167-2/LAVIII_20on_20Sandringham_20Rd-Large.jpg></img src>

Specifications
Crew - Eleven:

Driver
Vehicle Commander
Gunner
Eight Troops
Dimensions:

Combat Weight - 36,000 lb
Length - 273 inches
Height - over Hull 77 inches
Width - 105 inches
Armament:

Armament Primary: M242 25mm chain gun with TIS
Secondary: C6 7.62mm machine gun mounted coaxially to the main gun
Supplementary: C9 5.56mm machine gun pintle mounted
Ancillary Weapon: Two 76mm Smoke and Fragmentation Grenade Launchers
Ammunition (Ready): 210 rounds 25mm
Ammunition (Ready): 440 rounds 7.62mm
Ammunition (Ready): 8 Smoke Grenades 76mm
Ammunition (Stowed): 210 rounds 25mm
Ammunition (Stowed): 1320 rounds 7.62mm
Ammunition (Stowed): 3200 rounds 5.56mm
Ammunition (Stowed): 8 Smoke Grenades 76mm

[nudemetalz]

How strong are the tyres ? ie suceptibilty to land mines etc
They any good for Iraq deployment?
I know the M113 APC's could get tracks blown off quite easily.

I know they ain't going there, just a theoretical question.

[Colapop]

Seen the new Air force helichoppers? They had a Huey and *insert name here* (new one) plus a LAV on the Wellington Stadium (more cause for debate) causeway last week for the military show. Howling gale and the guy just eased it down to the deck like it was a perfectly still day...

[Squeak the Rat]

NH90 or sumthin. European jobbies, look like they have a naval bias or sumthin.

Don't know too much about the apart from this picture....

'Cause I'm too lazy to goo-ooo-gle, and too young to dieeee.

[Colapop]

Yep that's 'em. Very quiet too - not like the others...

[Hitcher]

Travel in an M113 is an "experience". Enough said. And they fit inside Hercs. A vastly superior product to the LAV in every respect, apart from top speed.

[Paul in NZ]

I had a WW2 Daimler armoured reco car once but i sold it for $375 ($50 profit)

Dumbarse

But at 5mpg off road and 9mpg cruising - I'm not sure i would still want it really....

[ghost]

How strong are the tyres ? ie suceptibilty to land mines etc
They any good for Iraq deployment?
I know the M113 APC's could get tracks blown off quite easily.

I know they ain't going there, just a theoretical question.

Read "my war" by colby buzzel, he served in a stryker unit in the sand and rates them.

But they have been proven in oz and timor to have less off road capability that the 113. Apparently the will fit in a C130 with a crouch kit but the weight limit reduces the range of the 130 so they can even make it to Oz, "the next dry bit to stop for fuel" bugger.

they will however add a lot of fire power against all the insergents fighting in NZ when Uncle Helen finally officially anounces a dictatorshop (he said dic)

[Sniper]

How strong are the tyres ? ie suceptibilty to land mines etc
They any good for Iraq deployment?
I know the M113 APC's could get tracks blown off quite easily.

I know they ain't going there, just a theoretical question.

Nothings safe. I believe they are armoured to a certain degree and some of the specialist models they imported are on "run flat" tyres.

I cant see how they would have problems in Iraq. They were built for Velt warefare though.

Remember the M113's have been around for ages. Munitions were developed to stop them, as well as Im sure munitions are built to immobilise the LAV Gen III


Travel in an M113 is an "experience". Enough said. And they fit inside Hercs. A vastly superior product to the LAV in every respect, apart from top speed.

Hear hear!

[nudemetalz]

I remember listening to the '113's going out on a night patrol while I was trying to sleep while I was based in Waiouru....damn did they make a racket !!!
Stealth?? ...ah, ah.....
But cool ? yeah !!!!

[Sniper]

I remember listening to the '113's going out on a night patrol while I was trying to sleep while I was based in Waiouru....damn did they make a racket !!!
Stealth?? ...ah, ah.....
But cool ? yeah !!!!

Aparently that noise fucked off the Vietnamese when they were sleeping in holes too

[Hitcher]

I remember listening to the '113's going out on a night patrol while I was trying to sleep while I was based in Waiouru....damn did they make a racket !!!

Poor diddums. You should have been inside the M113 to really appreciate the aural symphony. And the exhaust fumes. And the dust. And the lack of suspension...

[Hoon]

Yeah it was in todays Herald (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10411195).

The M113 might be better offroad but its armour can't even stop a .50 cal whereas the NZLAV has so many high tech gadgets, its like comparing a tractor to the space shuttle.

Yeah I might be a little bias since I'm the one who has to sit in it.

Out of interest, heres a pic of a weapons effect demonstration on an M113. The big hole is an 84mm Carl Gustav, next biggest M72. The NZLAV only stops up to .50 cal AP.

[nudemetalz]

Here's a couple of pics of UN painted APC's.

Note the external armour.

[Sniper]

Fuck Hoon, thats pretty impressive but it proves that APC's are still bullet magnets. BTW, are you a crewman on a LAV?

[NighthawkNZ]

Im not 100% sure, but my mate whos a driver in 1st Batt says they still do. Im still trying to figure out why we needed 105 of the fucken things

I think we origally had more APC's but as they broke down, crashed... wouldn't start... over the years they stripped the parts to keep a substainable working fleet... and the more peace keeping NZ got involved with the more parts were needed...

We did this in the Navy fleet vechiles as well, including ships. we useto be a 4 frigate navy one was always in refit, one on station in NZ waters somewhere and the other two could and would be anywhere else in the world

The lesson to learn... keep your maintanance up on your bike... look after her and she will give you hours of joy :yes:

[Swoop]

Apparently the will fit in a C130 with a crouch kit but the weight limit reduces the range of the 130 so they can even make it to Oz, "the next dry bit to stop for fuel" bugger.
Try flying to Oz in an Andover....
Refuel in Norfolk Island and it was still at least a six hour trip each way!
(^*$king crew that neglected to see if meals had been loaded for the passengers... "oops no. OK then, we'll just have a fry up for the flight crew instead..." bastards!)


thats pretty impressive but it proves that APC's are still bullet magnets.

Who was the sniper in Waiberia that used to bounce .30cal rounds off of the APCs? There was a rumour of .50cal being used on them at long range...

[jahrasti]

Fuck Hoon, thats pretty impressive but it proves that APC's are still bullet magnets. BTW, are you a crewman on a LAV?

That photo is of a Carl Gustav hitting the ramp door.
Pity they can't hit anything an other time.

[sAsLEX]

We are a pacifist nation now, dont you know that, we dont want to offend the tree huggers too much, so we need to get rid of all the cool stuff that might hurt bad guys.

Fucken govt


Hey Mate I like my toys as much as the next man and I will fight for the biggest baddest shit we can get in the Navy

<img src=http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/ergms.gif>



We had 65 APC's and we bought 105 LAV's? yeah fucken govt what were they thinking

Well to be honest the 65 113s would actually get to areas of interest before the LAVs. Tracks seem to work alot better in mud and shit you find on the islands than the wheels.......


Im not 100% sure, but my mate whos a driver in 1st Batt says they still do. Im still trying to figure out why we needed 105 of the fucken things
Read a large report in one of the Military Tech mags on the usefulness of LAVs and the like in modern combat and only M1A1's are capable of surviving in urban combat, unless you pack on heaps of external armour, the cheapness of RPG7s and the like has reduced the impact of armoured columns in urban environments

and anyway a 50 cal will slice through a LAV or anything smaller than a tank esy as a hot knife through butter.....


How strong are the tyres ? ie suceptibilty to land mines etc
They any good for Iraq deployment?
I know the M113 APC's could get tracks blown off quite easily.

I know they ain't going there, just a theoretical question.


Seen the new Air force helichoppers? They had a Huey and *insert name here* (new one) plus a LAV on the Wellington Stadium (more cause for debate) causeway last week for the military show. Howling gale and the guy just eased it down to the deck like it was a perfectly still day...

You not talking about a SeaSprite ???? The Navy choppers ??? As we aint got no NH90s yet.


They are fun pieces of kit, leap of the deck of the ship like a rocket it feels like from the belly of the beast.


NH90 or sumthin. European jobbies, look like they have a naval bias or sumthin.

Don't know too much about the apart from this picture....

'Cause I'm too lazy to goo-ooo-gle, and too young to dieeee.

NH90 are sort of jack of all trades I am leant to believe. But will fit on the NUSHIP Canterbury just nicely .


Travel in an M113 is an "experience". Enough said. And they fit inside Hercs. A vastly superior product to the LAV in every respect, apart from top speed.

Top speed matters jack when the LAV is stuck at the first culvert or river !

Went on a run in a 113 in training from the 115 howitzer position to the impact point, got to love the artillery whistle!


Nothings safe. I believe they are armoured to a certain degree and some of the specialist models they imported are on "run flat" tyres.

I cant see how they would have problems in Iraq. They were built for Velt warefare though.

Remember the M113's have been around for ages. Munitions were developed to stop them, as well as Im sure munitions are built to immobilise the LAV Gen III



Hear hear!

The LAVs can fit in a Herc if the tires are deflated etc..... a moot point really since they wont make Aus with that load anyway ....... if they are even operational that day......


Poor diddums. You should have been inside the M113 to really appreciate the aural symphony. And the exhaust fumes. And the dust. And the lack of suspension...

ahhhhh the memories....

[Kickaha]

I think we origally had more APC's

at least 70+ of them



Well to be honest the 65 113s would actually get to areas of interest before the LAVs. Tracks seem to work alot better in mud and shit you find on the islands than the wheels.......

That would depend on what enviroment they're required to operate in, there would be situations where the LAV would be better than the M113 as well


Do they still have issues with them being very difficult to fit into the C-130's ?

Is it that important that they do?, if they have to ship a decent amount of them anywhere they're not going to fly them in anyway

[Buddha#81]

Travel in an M113 is an "experience". Enough said. And they fit inside Hercs. A vastly superior product to the LAV in every respect, apart from top speed.

If you are talking about the pieces of cracked, worn out, out of date M113A1's our govt are sending to the scrap heap, good ridence to them. I would rather have seen them been updated to the latest model to save tax money. But we now have the latest and that is the latest model LAV (the yank dont even have this model yet) that money can buy.

From experence I would rather go on a UN deployment in a machine that is comfortable and purpose built than a 35 year old tin can that had bolt on armour that fell off when touched by a Brit Warrior. They also put a two ton belly plate on it to assist in mine defence along with kevlar mesh screens on the inside all adding weight to a under powered out of date lump of crap. Try keeping up n a patrol with Brit Scimatar's and Warrior's both capable of 85+ Kmph and our good old M113 at 40kmph, we looked like dicks (and dont get me started on the Series 2 Landrovers).

Why did they buy so many? I guess so they can deploy a Infantry company and still have enough in NZ for training the next deployment, without taking all the APC's the the "other" Battalion would be using at the time. This is not taking into consideration the recovery, ambulance, comand variants etc.

I commend the govt for buying the best they could, we will ,in true kiwi tradition be using these things in 30 years at least the LAV will get us there, something the M113's I doubt would have.

It would take more work to get a M113 with the T50 turret in a Herc than the LAV. I would rather let some tyres down using the central inflation sysem than remove a turret.

[terbang]

She turned the airforce into an aero club. She turned the navy into a sunday regatta. So she might as well turn the army into a boy scout troop..!

[Buddha#81]

She turned the airforce into an aero club. She turned the navy into a sunday regatta. So she might as well turn the army into a boy scout troop..!

No one left to turn it into anything.

[sAsLEX]

(the yank dont even have this model yet) that money can buy.


Are they getting them? Aint they using Bradley fighting vehicles?



She turned the navy into a sunday regatta

We just got 7 new vessels and only lost one 40odd year old steam ship....

[Buddha#81]

Are they getting them? Aint they using Bradley fighting vehicles?




We just got 7 new vessels and only lost one 40odd year old steam ship....

Yes they use the LAV but when we ordered them it was the newest model. Yeah for NZ we are the crash test dummies. The world is watching.

[jahrasti]

Yes they use the LAV but when we ordered them it was the newest model. Yeah for NZ we are the crash test dummies. The world is watching.

NO the merekins got their LAVs before us. Their order took precedence as they were getting large numbers.
The Striker is used in an APC role and not an IFV hence the one man turret. It is not designed to stay and fight but to rock up then piss off.

[Sniper]

NO the merekins got their LAVs before us. Their order took precedence as they were getting large numbers.
The Striker is used in an APC role and not an IFV hence the one man turret. It is not designed to stay and fight but to rock up then piss off.

Spud is right. The Americans got the LAV GenII, we got the LAV GenIII

[R6_kid]

sAsLEX is right, doubt it would have been an NH-90 you saw, ours havent started being built yet! And to be honest, if there was one in NZ i would have seen pics - shit like that circulates really quick through the RNZAF email system. The pic posted was a photoshop effort for publicity.

I'm betting on the SH-2G seasprite being the one on show, like the man said, pretty cool, pretty quiet, and do their job quite well!

As for the M113's werent ours M113A1's, the US are up to M113A3 (with all sorts of different variants on the base model)... it would have been a better idea to sell half the M113's we had, use that money to go towards updating them, then complementing them with the LAVIII.

The new Pinzgauers are a mean peice of work, and from what my mate in the army says the fully armoured troop movers have been getting rolled over quite a bit by newbie army drivers that dont think, yet they just get rolled back over and keep on driving... fuck yeh!

[jahrasti]

Spud is right. The Americans got the LAV GenII, we got the LAV GenIII

NO, what the Aussies have (Bison apc, 25mm gun car) are gen 2. The Stryker is a gen 3 hull, go and have a look.
If you want to be pedantic then we have the lav3.5 because they have the latest(at the time) Thermal sight for the driver.

[Mr. Peanut]

I can see it now.

Oh Uncle Helen... your Air conditioning installers are here... :ar15::ar15: :ar15:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/31vm3-BQRJU"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/31vm3-BQRJU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

:done:

[Exotix]

(no offence, Sarge)


is Our Glorious Leader even on KB anymore? I have not seen him online in weeks

[Mr. Peanut]

The NZLAV only stops up to .50 cal AP.

Only? I'd like to see you stop 50 cal... :gob:

[Pixie]

we useto be a 4 frigate navy one was always in refit, one on station in NZ waters somewhere and the other two could and would be anywhere else in the world


-projecting NZ's influence in the world:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[far queue]

:done:
Now that was a completely unnecessary display of wanton and unprovoked destruction :whocares: I loved it :first: :rockon: