CBR400RR vs RGV250 excuse my newbie-ness

[kneescraper]

Hey all.

I'm looking into buying a RGV250, its in awesome condition etc. After reading what I have and watching what Ive watched (Faster movie etc etc) its stuck in my mind that 2 stroke road bikes are hard to ride. They do all sorts when you least expect it...or so I've been lead to believe.

My last bike that I sold a year ago was a CBR400RR NC23...what I want to know in a simple answer is, is the RGV faster than the CBR400RR, does it handle better and is it as forgiving as a CBR400RR is?

Im not expecting lab reports on each bike....just a indercation so I know what Im getting my self into.

Sorry for a newbie silly question but you guys would know best.

Any info would be great.

[gamgee]

is the RGV faster than the CBR400RR
About the same acceleration, and top speed
does it handle better
handling probably the rgv by a little, only cause it's lighter

and is it as forgiving as a CBR400RR is?
No not as forgiving as the cbr, you'll have the evil 2 stroke powerband, hit that mid bend and it's probably all over (rover) it's fun for wheelies tho :innocent:

personally I'd go for a cbr400rr (weeell I went for an nc30...) just easier to handle, less maintenance, don't have to thrash it too hit the power
the only reason I can see for going for a 2 stroke 250 is licence restrictions, or a perfectly understandable fetish for the smell of two stroke oil, in which case get a two stoke 500cc :Punk:

[kneescraper]

Awesome answer, just the kind of answer Im wanting.

I am on a learner licence :( so thats one restriction. Ive been interested in getting a trail bike but this RGV has caught my eye and Ive read a few forums about them. One of the things that worry me is the up keep of the 2 strokes. Im pretty new to 2 strokes so I dont quite know how much work they require however I do know they require more than a 4 stroke.

I am wanting to do alittle touring, some trips up north to see my father (7 hour + trips), would the RGV be a bad bike to ride for this...would it be expecting to much from it?

[quickbuck]

Having owned a CBR 400, and an RG250 (not RGV) myself, I can say that I would rather tour on the CBR.
The RGV must be worse than the RG for touring. Over to you though, I have seen stroker 250's turn up at the Brass Monkey, loaded with gear.

As far as maintenance and reliability go, well put it this way:
You know how all you did to your CBR was put fuel in it, and changed the oil? Well, with an RGV, you put in almost twice as much fuel, and every 30000k or so it will go CLACK if you don't pay particular attention to engine rebuilds.

A well ridden RGV is a fast little machine. I don't mean fast to scare ya, I mean, on the open road in the twisty bits it will eat big bikes for breakfast (if ridden well note).

[kneescraper]

I see ya point "quickbuck"....hmmmm Would a DR350 be better to tour on? I dont want to do long trips...just a 5 hour trip would be good. I love the sound of a 2 stoke so that is also pulling me closer to owning one. But like you said, well both of you...the up keep is high.

The thing is I can get the RGV for cheap...and it really is in a good condition..been well looked after.

But please, let the answers keep rolling in. The more info I get the better.

[gamgee]

dr350 has no fairing, so I'd hate riding for 5 hours on it, but you might be different, probably the best bike you could legally get for touring would be something like a kawasaki zzr250 or a gpx250, sure they aren't hellishly quick like the rgv and cbr400, but they'll comfortably do the speed limit and are pretty fun through the twisties, plus super comfy riding position, I've kept up with some much bigger bikes on my gpx through the twisties

[kneescraper]

Hey Gamgee.

Yeah I could get a ZZR250 (dam nice bikes) or even a GPX250 (also a nice bike, mucht the same as a ZZR I thought) but this RGV is so dam cheap. Well its had the old slow drop etc but its in such a good order...I seem to be answering my own question here. :) I'm not going to be doing the long rides all the time...so im not to worried. As long as it can make it would out to many problems.

What are the 2 stokers like to ride in traffic...not heavy traffic (no such thing in Gisborne) ?

[gamgee]

fine in traffic, altho I've heard they don't like low rev riding, tends to get the spark plugs gunked up, sounds like your pretty much commited to buying, but just bear in mind there is a reason they are cheap, they cost more to run, maintain, probably insure (altho I haven't checked that) which is another thing, you won't be able to insure anything over a 250cc

[kneescraper]

Good points, I dont mind the spending a little extra in up keep, thats ok. Im not commited to buying it, just checking out all the options...:) I grew up watching Mick Doohan race so the 2 stokers have also ignited excitement.

Thanks for your guys help, keep the posts coming.!

[avgas]

hmmm thats a tough one....not
gimmie the screamer any day. A decent RGV will eat anything.

[kneescraper]

Hahahhaha well thats my thinking to Avgas :). Ive read they can take on big bikes with the right rider :)

[R6_kid]

i'd go for he RGV for road riding. Thats only because i've now got an affliction for the 250 ringers (after watching 250GP). Remember that the RGV wont have the same amount of engine braking, and as said you'll have to learn to ride two stroke styles. Being able to predict the powerband, or more to the point utilising it properly will turn you into a worthy adversary on the road or track.

Of course with that, there is the downside of fuel consumption and rebuilds etc. At the end of the day we cant decide for you, but those that know the bikes can offer their views on each.

I've ridden the MC23? CBR400RR and it was a good little bike, awesome brakes, but i cant comment so much on the handling as it was my first time on slicks and wasnt my bike so didnt really nail it.

[kneescraper]

Thanks R6 Kid, yeah I find the 2 stokers interesting. With the right rider I think they are a 600cc's nightmare.

So true, only I can make my mind up..however like you said..rider input is awesome. Views from both sides would be great. Im not looking at buying a CBR400rr just trying to compare the two...if I can.

Thanks for the reply R6 Kid, its been a great help!

[Mr. Peanut]

250 2ts can get tiring, they're totally focused. I wouldn't recommend any of them. You will have more fun on something with higher bars, and more sensible ergonomics. Seriously... as in you will be grinning more...

They're not hard to ride, you just need to understand the engines character.

CBR400s get boring very quickly, too linear. If you want a 2t road bike, get a 150. NSRs are good, less demanding maintenance, but parts are less available.

A dual purpose would be a lot of fun (400-650cc single 4t or a Yamaha DT230 2t)

My 2c.

[Mr. Peanut]

....but this RGV is so dam cheap. Well its had the old slow drop etc but its in such a good order...

There is no such thing as a cheap RGV. Look closer, has it got receipts for a recent rebuild? How many Km? Are the owners young (20's?)

I don't mean to harass you or anything, but these bikes are trouble in spades... Worth it, but dont expect daisies.

[FzerozeroT]

If you are going to buy an older (5+) two stroke, make sure you have a full toolkit, spare garage space and backup transport. Little things that go wrong will take you weeks to fix in your spare time, unless you take it to a dealer and they'll charge you an arm and a leg.

Regardless of actual speed, a 250 2T feels faster than anything else, even when being passed. riding one flat tack round some twisties is mindblowing and once I've got some more coin I'm going to be getting another, was thinking RS250 but budget probably won't go that far.

[gamgee]

are the RGV250's the ones that have a tendency to drop powervalves?

[kneescraper]

Ive heard they do drop powervalves but Im not 100% sure.

Awesome points you guys have brought up...really got me thinking about what I'm getting my self into. I might give it a miss, Ive got my eye on a DR350, Ive been wanting a trail bike because of the practicality of them. But the one I'm looking at on trademe has gone to high.

I might keep on looking....

[awesker]

Yeha they do, the Vj21 (88-89) has that problem but as long as you keep checking the play in the powervalve housing type thing (where the valve rods connect onto the shaft that connects onto the powervavle wheel) youll be sweet. The VJ22 (90-95ish?) have the most problems with it because it was redesigned from the older model, I heard its a pin that snaps (gets brittle then cya!) and then drops the whole unit into the cylinder so its a bigger problem that the older ones! and if your lucky enough to get your little mits on the vj23 (96 onwards?) I think they dont have any problem at all.. correct me if Im wrong.

Still ironing out the kinks on my RGV atm, but its getting there. its pretty bloody fun! but its a bitch to commute on.. smells gewd though.

If you want to find more about the weakness of the RGV just do a search on RGV.co.uk, pretty sure they got a step by step walkthrough on how to check it.

[vixter]

go for the rgv i used to have one many years ago

id still have one if i had the spare doh

[White trash]

RGV's quicker than a CBR400, no question. And if ya get an NX new one, it wont have some dicky 180kph limiter. And it's lighter, has a shitload more cornering clearance and is generally more fun to ride.

To quote a very wise man, "Middle weight four strokes are for homosexuals"

[The_Dover]

And to quote an even wiser man

"Hondas are for homosexuals"

[Deano]

To quote a very wise man, "Middle weight four strokes are for homosexuals"

And racing thanks.


And to quote an even wiser man

"Hondas are for homosexuals"

Yawn.

[lukelin250]

And to quote an even wiser man

"Hondas are for homosexuals"

uh huh :mellow:

[kneescraper]

Hey guys.

Thanks for all the feedback.

In my spare times I've done some reading, the later models...had one pin in the powervalve can can drop into the engine because its vertical...however the one I am looking at doesnt have that problem....or so I've read.

After speaking to the owner it has had a engine rebuild in the last year or so.

I'll have alook through the RGV.co.uk site.

[paultz250]

dont be scared of the 2stroke dude jst ride it in the powerband all the time and yourl be sweet i learnt to ride on a tzr250 and still ride if the brakes on the rgv are as good as the tzr youl be going rear whel up into every corner and the sound:gob: :rockon: good luck on the tough choice:Punk:

[jade]

As said above, dont be afraid of the 2 stroke, Yes they can be tempremental but you will learn to know what your bike likes and doesnt, and what makes it tick, It is a more engaging bike to ride as requires a different style to a 4 stroke, a four stroke you can put in 3rd gear and twist the throttle as you please, a 2 stroke you will need to be in the right gear for the exit from a corner so you are constantly shifting up and down,
Yes the rgv will beat the 400, not by much - but it will.
When people say the powerband will throw you off if you hit it in a corner its an exageration, powerbands are fun and you will quickly get used to it, do Not be scared of the bike, start slow and youll gradually get used to it and harness the power, the best bit about the bike is it has more potential than most riders - thus you wont get bored with it,
I got an nsr250 for my first bike and knew nothing about mechanics, I had a bit of trouble at first but quickly learnt what made it tick to the point I knew every inch of the bike, what it liked and what it didnt, Get the rgv, you wont regret it, p.s - its fine for commuting and would be fine for long rides anywhere between 100 and 200km/per hour, the only time you would have trouble is sitting on the rev limiter in 6th for more than 10 mins
last time I sat there for 6 mins ...the only trouble I got was a 900 dollar fine
Get a 2 stroke

[hurricane_r]

, ppl can give u tips, but u guta get on and ride ur self, ul uderstand it weather u like it or not , iv never ridden 2-stroke, but id love to,

[vtec]

A lot of people are saying don't be afraid of the two stroke, but I say... do be afraid. The RGV was the cheapest bike I ever bought, but at the same time, the most expensive. Got about 1.5years of riding out of it, but that wasn't commuting, so it was probably only about 10,000k's max. Spent 1 g on engine work in one sitting. Used as much gas as my 200hp Honda Prelude (twice as much as a CBR250), and used a fair bit of oil too. Fouled plugs, and was generally a pain in the ass, sounded like a weed eater, and kick starters look pretty gay if anyone is watching.

The benefits are, that it was very light, very "flickable", and if you know how to ride it, it will be as quick out of corners as an RF900 (actual experience).

To be quite honest for road riding, you want a four stroke. Cheap on gas, cheap on maintenance, reliable, and if you get the right ones, pretty damn fast. I'm guessing an RGV with a good rider would do 1.11's around Puke? A CBR250 with a good rider will do 1.15's, I reckon a 1.14 is possible. The main difference is that a 2 stroke FEELS way more powerful because of the way the power is delivered, when power is delivered in a peaky manner, it makes a vehicle feel way more powerful. Like my Evo 4 (280hp) felt boring to accelerate because good power came in around 3.5krpm, and my Prelude (200hp) feels just as good if not better because the power kicks in at 5krpm and is a lot more peaky. Should be noted that the Evo will lose more power to the ground than the prelude so the difference isn't as much as shown in the numbers given here.

[duncan_bayne]

Well, I've owned a '92 TZR250 and an '86 FZR400 ... the FZR was faster in a straight line, and made a better road bike most of the time, in that it had a more forgiving spread of power, better ergonomics, and lower running costs.

The TZR was, however, faster around corners, and much more fun to ride hard given it's acceleration, powerband, and wannabe-GP-racer sound.

[kneescraper]

Oh ok, thats for that.

Yeah I get the bike (RGV) on Thrusday so I will be able to tell you all the difference. I am looking forward to riding it however it will be a learning experence.

Cheers

[marty]

If you are going to buy an older (5+) two stroke, make sure you have a full toolkit, spare garage space and backup transport. Little things that go wrong will take you weeks to fix in your spare time, unless you take it to a dealer and they'll charge you an arm and a leg.

Regardless of actual speed, a 250 2T feels faster than anything else, even when being passed. riding one flat tack round some twisties is mindblowing and once I've got some more coin I'm going to be getting another, was thinking RS250 but budget probably won't go that far.

yup - RS250 is the bomb. i'm actually going to auckland tomorrow, and taking the as new one at holeshot for a spin - it could well end up being my weekend fanger

[kneescraper]

The different thoughts regarding 2 stroke road bikes is really cool. Shows the impressions they have on people. It makes me want to ride/own a 2 stroke even more.

Cheers for all the help, advice etc.

Cheers.

[jade]

yup - RS250 is the bomb. i'm actually going to auckland tomorrow, and taking the as new one at holeshot for a spin - it could well end up being my weekend fanger

Wow, I saw that bike yesterday, It is absolutely fucking immaculate..
Mines a 2000 in good nick but that 03 rainbow is the shiznit.
They are however asking too much for it I reckon... 12grand ?
Id get a k6 gixxer 600 for 15...

[scracha]

Done the 2smoke twin thing. Personally I reckon they belong in lawnmowers, race-tracks or sunny Sunday racers. If you enjoy constant maintenance, balancing carbs, cleaning plugs, replacing pistons, buggering about with 2-stroke oil and large fuel bills then you'll love it. If you're gonna be commuting or doing a lot of riding then you're better off with a 4-stroke IMHO.

[Mr. Peanut]

Uses as much as a 600 + oil. Probably the most expensive, difficult and rewarding sports machine out there.

[Deano]

I have fond memories of my NSR250R - very rewarding when you are giving it full tit through the twisties.

I've come up against a few on the track with my CBR400RR (1989), and honestly the RGV's have it in straight line acceleration. But, like others have said, you have to weigh that up with the (sometimes hefty) maintenance of the 2 stroke.

Personally, I would love a late model 250 2 stroke sitting in the garage.

[jade]

to the above post ^... pics to come very soon :) - its virtually the same as the pic in my profile, but new paint job, new stickers and carbon fibre :)

[crash harry]

Ive heard they do drop powervalves but Im not 100% sure.


Yeah they do. It's a common fault and there's a fix for it (bigger retaining pins) but they don't call them Random Grenade Vehicles for nothing.

Great bike if you get a full power one (65bhp as opposed to 45bhp for the restricted jap-spec one) but I'd budget for a full engine rebuild as soon as you buy it so you know it's good. Doesn't cost too much to rebuild a stroker, it's just rings and bearings, check out the crank, and check out the power valves...

[kneescraper]

Cheers for the replys guys. Crash Harry, any advice on who is a good person to use to rebuild the bike. I can get the engine out and send it any where or even send the bike if that means the job is going to be done right.

Well today was my first ride, two words SORE BUTT!!! Other than that I love it, great little bike with good power. Even riding through town isnt bad either but mind you there are only 2 or so stop and go's.

Thanks for all the advice..