P/Methamphetamines

[Mr. Peanut]

I have a member of my family that's gotten caught up in this shit. The thing is, I had no idea how pervasive this stuff was.

Seems a large group of people (fathers, mothers.... respected members of the community...) are into this shit. This is not a drug you can take recreationally, even heroin users have more control over their habit.

One hit and you're fucked.

It would be interesting to know how many of you, know people that have used the stuff. I think we're going to get a hell of a wakeup call.

[VasalineWarrior]

I know people who have used. Im going to go out on a limb here though, because I think the media has has blown the ''P'' issue into something akin to the war on terror. P, speed, whatever has been with us for a long time (70's) when the first hell's angles came over from the states and sold the recipie as a franchise to the gangs etc. The most common misconception is that its some new thing, and its not. The people I know who have done the stuff are into all sorts of other things, and its just another thing on the ''to do'' list for the evening.

There are other things out there that can fuck you up just as badly. Alcohol, the socialially acceptable drug of choice for the masses has a brillant track record of problems that emmanate from its use.

The problem as I see it seems to stem from the fact that there are some out there that seem to be unable to stomach thier A class drugs. Sort of similar to problem gamblers and stupid 18 year olds on courtney place full of booze at 2am on a saturday night.

Not condoning it, just reckon its a bit too hyped up.

[SN4PD]

We suspect a few people at work have been using........

Their work starts to deteriorate, they stop turning up on time..... and eventually they get fired.

Nicotine is addictive enough, WTF would you go smoke P:shit:

(That stuff really fucks you up big time, irreversibly)

[Lou Girardin]

\

One hit and you're fucked.



They said that of dope in the 50's. It's not true of speed either.

[SixPackBack]

Directly responsible for the death of my 36 year old brother-in-law.
Not comparable to Pot or Alcohol IMHO.

[The_Dover]

Absolute horse shit that it's as addictive as heroin.

If heroin was readily available in NZ and as cheap as some european countries then we'd see the effects of a REAL drug problem.

The media/government/cops have blown the P "epidemic" out of all proportion.

Fuck, half the kids I went to school with were into speed at the weekends and still lead normal lifes but the physical effects of heroin addiction are disturbingly visible.

[Uncle B]

A guy at work is on it.......he's always late and has the occasional day off and also has bad mood swings, almost bordering on violent.
He is also divorced now with a protection order against him because of these mood swings, plus most of his mates are on it.

How can this shit be good for you when they (police) find a 'P' lab they have to completely strip the room of all it's wall linings because of the contamination.

I have no sympathy for anyone who is on this shit when the harmful effects are so well publicised.

[WINJA]

A guy at work is on it.......he's always late and has the occasional day off and also has bad mood swings, almost bordering on violent.

SOUNDS LIKE ME ON A MONDAY MORNING.

I WAS TELLING MY MATE A GOOD JOKE , IT WENT LIKE THIS , WHAT DO YOU GIVE A MAN FOR CHRISTMAS WHO HAS EVERYTHING ? GIVE HIM P AND SOON HE'LL HAVE NOTHING , SADLY IT CAME TRUE FOR HIM

[Colapop]

For those that have said "It's not that bad..." HAve you tried it? Have you seen members of your family or friends destriyed by it? Sure it's been around for awhile. Sure there's a media campaign. Why? Not because the government can't tax it, but because it (like heroin, crack etc) fucks you and your family up.

[jetboy]

Lost a few good mates to this crap...seems to be quite common in people around my age group. A very good mate of mine got into it quite badly - he ended up stealing from me, his mrs and his parents just to pay for it, fucked over alot of mates. I've seen it change people from good guys to fuckwits. Personally wouldnt wanna touch it.

[Edbear]

Have to agree with WINJA:gob: , SPB, Colapop and SN4PD, etc. here. The version of 'P' being used is deadly. Ask those who are on the frontline, actually dealing with the effects and consequences whether they think it's not so bad. Bear in mind that generally speaking, the lowlife's are getting worse in attitude, too. More agressive and violent in general. HAving said that, the people doing 'P' are more and more the so-called "normal" mums and dads and they are being surprised at the consequences themselves, but of course it's too late once hooked.

I've seen what it does and talked to those directly affected by the person using it, and seen the Doco's, (yes you can actually glean a few facts from these at times). It seems to inevitably turn the user completely paranoid and they usually become violent as a result, turning on friends and family. Don't expect to be able to reason with a "P" addict, like Anorexia and other serious mental disorders, only direct physical intervention has any hope of success.

This is one area where the Tazer may be most effective as someone violently hyped on 'P' simply cannot be talked to - if the cops can't tackle him physically only a bullet will stop him. At least the Tazer gives them another option.

[MisterD]

I know people who have used. Im going to go out on a limb here though, because I think the media has has blown the ''P'' issue into something akin to the war on terror. P, speed, whatever has been with us for a long time (70's)

P and speed are not the same thing - P is what is known as Crystal Meth in US and Europe and it's starting to have a similar effect over there, in spite of the fact that cocaine is cheap as chips...

[dnos]

I have known a couple of people who have been into it. It really can mess people up, as said above violence and stealing are both consequences i have directly seen from these people.
I definitely don't want to be friends with anyone doing that shit.
I've seen one guy who went / was sent to rehab and now he has to work bloody hard to pay off all the money he pilfered to pay for drugs. It looks like getting back on the straight and narrow is going to be a long hard process.

In my opinion it is bad shit, and people addicted to it can end up in a very bad situation.

[MSTRS]

From some of the posts here, it is obvious that there are some misconceptions about P.
Listen up...IT IS BAAAAAAAD SHIT. An insidious evil that destroys communities, not to mention indiviuals. It has no redeeming qualities. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how much of the crime in this country is directly associated with this shit???

[WRT]

I know quite a few people who have been/still are users, from a very wide range of society. Some it has completely fucked their lives up, others it is merely an enjoyable pass time every now and again. I dont believe the "one hit and your fucked" philosophy, but its definitely not good stuff to be involved in. I for one have never smoked it, and have absolutely no intention of ever doing so. I also tend not to hang out people that do it, when they are doing it.

One mate, who is now struggling (REALLY struggling) to rebuild his life after being a heavy user has his own phillosophy on it. He thinks that the drugs only ever highlight the bad stuff that is already inside you. Hence why some people can take it and not resort to chopping hands off with samurai swords, while others cant.

One thing that is for sure however, they remove your inhibitions and the little barriers that stop "normal" people from doing or saying what they know they shouldnt. And sleep deprevation (at the extent that is possible with P) is well known to induce psycosis. Any one that has been using P (or any other drug for that matter) to go for days without sleep is a dangerous person to be around.

My opinion? I'm a fairly liberal guy, and I've normally got no problem with people taking drugs recreationally, however P is a completely different ball game. It's a nasty, nasty drug.

[Big Dave]

Sure it's just a beat up - Junkies are junkies regardless of the powder.

Vile, filthy shit and if anybody gets a glass pipe out in front of me again I'll smash it - seriously.

Completely fucked the careers/lives of people I know were using and personally.

Intervene for your family if you can mr nut.

[Postie]

This a poem that is on the ZM web site from last week. The picture on the left is without P, the one on the right is +P.

Heartbreaking!
"I AM CRYSTAL METH "

This was written by a young girl who was in jail for drug charges, and was addicted to crystal meth [P] . She wrote this while in jail. As you will soon read, she fully grasped the horrors of the drug, as she tells in this simple, yet profound poem. She was released from jail, but true to her story, the drug owned her.

Please keep praying for our Children, Teens, Young adults. Understand, this thing is worse than any of us realize...


My Name is: " P "

I destroy homes, I tear families apart,
take your children, and that's just the start.
I'm more costly than diamonds, more precious than gold,
The sorrow I bring is a sight to behold.

If you need me, remember! I'm easily found,
I live all around you - in schools and in town.
I live with the rich; I live with the poor,
I live down the street, and maybe next door.

I'm made in a lab, but not like you think,
I can be made under the kitchen sink.
In your child's closet, and even in the woods,
If this scares you to death, well it certainly should.

I have many names, but there's one you know best,
I'm sure you've heard of me, my name is crystal meth.
My power is awesome; try me you'll see,
But if you do, you may never break free.

Just try me once and I might let you go,
But try me twice, and I'll own your soul.
When I possess you, you'll steal and you'll lie,
You do what you have to -- just to get high.

The crimes you'll commit for my narcotic charms
Will be worth the pleasure you'll feel in your arms, (your lungs, and your nose).
You'll lie to your mother; you'll steal from your dad,
When you see their tears, you should feel sad.

But you'll forget your morals and how you were raised,
I'll be your conscience, I'll teach you my ways.
I take kids from parents, and parents from kids,
I turn people from God, and separate friends.

I'll take everything from you, your looks and your pride,
I'll be with you always -- right by your side.
You'll give up everything - your family, your home,
Your friends, your money, then you'll be alone.

I'll take and take, till you have nothing more to give,
When I'm finished with you, you'll be lucky to live.
If you try me be warned - this is no game,
If given the chance, I'll drive you insane.

I'll ravish your body, I'll control your mind,
I'll own you completely, your soul will be mine.
The nightmares I'll give you while lying in bed,
The voices you'll hear, from inside your head.

The sweats, the shakes, the visions you'll see,
I want you to know, these are all gifts from me.
But then it's too late, and you'll know in your heart,
That you are mine, and we shall not part.

You'll regret that you tried me, they always do,
But you came to me, not I to you.
You knew this would happen, many times you were told,
But you challenged my power, and chose to be bold.

You could have said no, and just walked away,
If you could live that day over, now what would you say?
I'll be your master, you will be my slave,
I'll even go with you, when you go to your grave.

Now that you have met me, what will you do?
Will you try me or not? It's all up to you.
I can bring you more misery than words can tell,
Come take my hand, let me lead you to hell.

[Mr. Peanut]

Mr P nut... :mellow:

[Mr. Peanut]

Sure it's just a beat up - Junkies are junkies regardless of the powder.

Vile, filthy shit and if anybody gets a glass pipe out in front of me again I'll smash it - for their own good. Save me the trouble of doing it after they rip off my garage.

Completely fucked the careers/lives of people I know were using and personally have no more time for the losers who are too weak to say no.

Intervene for your family if you can mr nut.

I got three kids living with me now... does that count?

[Big Dave]

I got three kids living with me now... does that count?

Not sure what u mean - I'm talking friends and former associates. We have had to toss a coin to see who 'intervened' with mates before.
Fortunately I won and didn't have to - but confronting it openly seems the best way. Or maybe even try some community help.

I moderated my previous post after proper consideration. I get a bit 'emotional' on the subject.

[Hitcher]

I marvel at times at the contradictory nature of some human behaviours.

At one level society demands greater safety standards around the consumption of food and beverages, particularly labelling to tell people from whence these goods came, and when, what's in them (with a plethora of detail about ingredients, such as sugar, salt, fats), by when they should be consumed, how they should be cooked, etc. The regulations around who can manufacture, distribute and sell food and beverages are formidable. We are bombarded daily with information about the evils of "fast" food, CocaCola and the plight of the battery hen.

Yet on another level, people are more than happy to injest mind-altering substances from a bloke they met in the pub, that were prepared by a couple of in-bred, illiterate hoodies in the back of their de-facto's garage in Naenae.

And, like domestic violence and child abuse, nobody really gives a shit. We appear to be more concerned about matters like icebergs and whether or not or where Aucklanders should receive a taxpayer-funded stadium.

[Paul in NZ]

Thats very true mr H...

I wonder if it's because the govt etc want to keep control of these 'crimes' and the don't allow the community to 'do' anything about it?

Stuffed if I know.

But then I don't know anyone who uses it - or at least they sure don't tell me about it because I have no tolerance for it.

[WRT]

I moderated my previous post after proper consideration. I get a bit 'emotional' on the subject.

Fair enough too, its a very emotional subject for a lot of people. To be honest however I actually read your first post thinking "this is the same attitude as the police, which hasnt worked so well for them".

I'm helping with one of my best mates at the moment. Its been a very tough road for him, but at the end of the day he could see what it was doing to his life, and it was HIS choice to make the break. I think that it needs to be that way, you cannot force someone to give up, they'll only go behind your back. They have to want to do it, and they will need your full help to do so.

Six months down the track and unfortunately my mate has had significant other problems in his life (he's been crapped on by others that are still using, robbed, had a harsh break up with his long term girlfriend - after he quit, by the way - as well as many other troubles) but he's pulling through. It's hard to witness, he's got a heart of gold and life has been taking the opportunity lately to kick him repeatedly while he is down. Even in the depths of his using, he never resorted to robbery to screwing people over (although he has ticked up some big debts hes now working to pay off), but he did see the shift in his attitudes and other aspects of his life that were significant enough for him to see the need for change.

Again, its my belief that the person has to recognise that they need to quit, otherwise they will go back to the drug (which ever drug it should be).

[Black Bandit]

Had some low life fuckers renting the granny flat on our property. Started off OK then started skipping rent, having visitors at all hours etc. Next thing get home from work and find a dozen cops on the property arresting his broken ass. Bods in boiler suites going through all their stuff. Turns out he was using/cooking up P, storing all the bulk chemicals for that shit and had unlicenced firearms on the premises! Now the flat is condemned and needs to be stripped out and chemically "cleansed".

Can't get any income from the granny flat anymore:angry2:

The physical affects of P are quite frightening - faces get all scabby from the scratching they do as they suffer withdrawl ...

[Mr. Peanut]

Or we could just throw them in a room, nail the door shut, and check every few days.

"You over it?"

..........

"no..."

SLAM!

[Colapop]

You can't make anybody do anything. Smoking. drugs, drink driving - thay aint gonna stop unless they want to or can no longer physically do it. Tell them all you like. Lock them in a room (jail). It makes no difference, as soon as they're able they'll be using again.

[Mr. Peanut]

Not so much making them do anything as making them do nothing.

[WRT]

Not so much making them do anything as making them do nothing.

I'm not quite sure that you have an accurate grasp of the situation . . . quitting is harder than continuing - just ask any smoker.

[Mr. Peanut]

I'm a bit tired.

[Pixie]

Sure it's just a beat up - Junkies are junkies regardless of the powder.

Vile, filthy shit and if anybody gets a glass pipe out in front of me again I'll smash it - seriously.

Completely fucked the careers/lives of people I know were using and personally.

Intervene for your family if you can mr nut.
The problem lies with the invertebrate personality defectives that use the substances (alcohol included )

Seriously,last week some current affairs program had some retards using the latest legal hallucinogen on the market,these morons actually sounded like they aspired to be Cheech and Chong

[Black Bandit]

Before and after photos:

[Paul in NZ]

well.... Like anything - no one says to themselves 'Hey Cool - I think I'll become a Junkie today" and looks up P in the yellow pages....

Nah - some shit wad sees a chance to make some $$ and tells them - It aint so bad - all that crap the cops talk is bullshit man - hey, I tell ya what - just try some on me eh?

Christs sake - we live in a free society where you are free to make choices. BUT you have to take responsibility for the choices you make. The low life scum bags have created an alternate society that allows them to flourish and peddle their filty because they LIKE IT that way. They love the violence and the gangster life but they need victims - so they create em... If stick you head into the lions mouth - you will get bitten sooner or later.

[placidfemme]

I know 3 people that smoke P.

First guy was an ex-flatmate of mine... read the "P" story here:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=14777

I've only seen him twice since the above incident. Still on the P and now his missus is pregnant with his kid... and apparantly she is also still on the P too... very sad...

The second guy I know who smokes P is my old boss... as far as I know he is also still on the P. I've never seen someone loose weight so quickly... and man are his mood swings really bad too...

The third guy I used to work with at my old job... addicted to P and addicted to pot and also "noddy juice" which is methadone (sp) or whatever that drug is that Heroine addicts use when they come off heroine...

Very bad shit... ruins lives and destroys familys...

About 4 years ago I had my bag, guitar and all my CD's stolen, the cops caught the guy (from his fingerprints) and turns out he was stealing to support his P addiction...

[Skyryder]

I don't know much about P other than what I read in the papers. There does however seem to be a consistant them that P is not only harmful but dangerouse for others that are in the vicinity. This may be the thing that sets P apart from other recreational drugs.

As an ex smoker I do find societys positon on addictive drugs to be hypocritical. On one hand we have many opposing opiat use on the grounds of addiction but at the same time there is no consensus in making nicotene unlawfull for exactly the same reason. Now I am the first person to admit that there are many other issues in regards to the two types of drugs. But it must be remembered that prior to the Harrison Narcotic Act of 1914 many of the opiates were in use with little apparent affects that drug use today creates on society.

There is one part of me that is sympathetic to removing drug usage from the crimes act, as against supplying, and another side that says ban the whole bloody lot, nicotene and alcohole included. I can see merits with both arguements and as a result I've been sitting on the the barb wire fence so long my arse has got callouses, that tends to make me a bit indifferent.

'Bout the best I can do on this.

Skyryder

[Brett]

P is one of the main parasites in our society. I personally had a guy at work try and run me over, and a few other attacks about 4 years ago. It got to the point where i carried a knife on me at all times and was always watching my back, after a couple of weeks, i thought to myself "what the hell am I doing" and just refused to come back to work till he left because I didn't want any part in his life.

My wife has worked as an intern doctor in a psychiatric ward and has seen some really insane effects of P ( I haven't talked too much with ehr about it, but the story posted by PF was of no surprise to her) and i can honestly say that it is not like any other drug out there (based on other people experiences, not my own)

P is a nasty nasty drug and we as a society need to be worried about it. I know a few people who have had violent home invasions by P fiends, and have been personally attacked 3 times by guys on P.
I heard an ex P useer talking, and he says the biggest fear he has with P now, is that it removes any sense of consciense that the person has, hence we had deranged mofo's cutting people with samurai swords.

P is pure evil, just look at the physical effects on the people.

[treefrog]

remember speed and p are not the same.i snorted speed off and on over the years.still a fairly normal bloke and same with others i know,this p seems to cause a lot more aggro,a bit like alcohol really.i honestly dont know any good stories on it.i had to sack one of my workers for it,started needing lots of time off to recover,getting aggro at me,work geeting slack.sad really.

[Hitcher]

sad really.

I was wondering whether a side-effect was failure to observe the accepted convention of putting a space after fullstops and starting a new sentence with a capital letter?

[soundbeltfarm]

Seen all the shit that goes on with this and all the shit the family goes through to sort it out .

My sister was an fucken top of the class sort of girl , had a primo job managing a well known restaurant.
everything going for her.
then she hitched up with a bloke that was, well a dealer.
she had no hope.
all her family live down here in taranaki and she is up in tauranga.
she went from a top bird to a total whacked out loser.
It took a lot of effort from all my family to help both her ans her boyfriend.
The biggest thing to remember for anything here is Not to give up on them.
It is so hard not to give up on them.
It took about 12 months for her to come right and a lot of determination
on everyones part.
But it was well worth it as we now have our sister back and she has a good job and her partner is now clean and one less dealer out there.
They are both doing really well and are looking at buying their first house together.
So this is one of those good endings .
Tragiclly for alot it is not so good.

SBF

[The Pastor]

I know people who have used. Im going to go out on a limb here though, because I think the media has has blown the ''P'' issue into something akin to the war on terror. P, speed, whatever has been with us for a long time (70's) when the first hell's angles came over from the states and sold the recipie as a franchise to the gangs etc. The most common misconception is that its some new thing, and its not. The people I know who have done the stuff are into all sorts of other things, and its just another thing on the ''to do'' list for the evening.

There are other things out there that can fuck you up just as badly. Alcohol, the socialially acceptable drug of choice for the masses has a brillant track record of problems that emmanate from its use.

The problem as I see it seems to stem from the fact that there are some out there that seem to be unable to stomach thier A class drugs. Sort of similar to problem gamblers and stupid 18 year olds on courtney place full of booze at 2am on a saturday night.

Not condoning it, just reckon its a bit too hyped up.

Yes it is hyped up, but only on the fact that "everyone who uses it develops physosis (sp)"

It is bad, but i'd say not everyone goes around killing people. Alot of people die from it though, and it IS very bad for ones health and lifestyle. But its no worse than any other hard drug.


Directly responsible for the death of my 36 year old brother-in-law.
Not comparable to Pot or Alcohol IMHO.


We suspect a few people at work have been using........

Their work starts to deteriorate, they stop turning up on time..... and eventually they get fired.

Nicotine is addictive enough, WTF would you go smoke P:shit:

(That stuff really fucks you up big time, irreversibly)

Yeah I agree with both of you there.


They said that of dope in the 50's. It's not true of speed either.




Absolute horse shit that it's as addictive as heroin.

If heroin was readily available in NZ and as cheap as some european countries then we'd see the effects of a REAL drug problem.

The media/government/cops have blown the P "epidemic" out of all proportion.

Fuck, half the kids I went to school with were into speed at the weekends and still lead normal lifes but the physical effects of heroin addiction are disturbingly visible.

The main flaw in your argument(s) is that speed and P are the same drug tecnically, P has alot more meth than speed, P stands for pure meth, speed has a small ammount of P in it so to speak. 1gram of P does not = 1 gram of speed.

P is constantly changing in its makeup, Every manufacturer adds differnt stuff in it diblertaly to make it differnt than the competitions and make it more addictive. Also P from differnt regions are made from differnt recipies, there are lots of ways to cook up a batch of P and differnt countries use differnt local ingrediants etc etc.

At the end of the day, theres no way of telling whats in the P your taking and so unless you make it your self i'd stay well clear of it. Actually if i made P myself I would still stay well clear of it, mix it into soft serve and go get a primary school hooked on it.......... (good to get them started young as repeat customers make for good bussieness)


Of cource all this is just pulled out of my brain from vairous self intrest studys i've read/watched Im not garenteeing any accuracy at all.

P.s the recipes in 'the cookbook' are false (as with everything in it), they are easy to find on the net though.


EDIT:

I don't use or know anyone personally who uses. And the posts refering to useing the drug are sarcasm and satire, Don't use drugs kids.

[lb99]

why oh why would you want to take a drug to keep you awake for days on end?, all you need is young kids for that. No wonder people flip out, FFS

I do know a couple of so called "recreational" weekend smokers, who reckon it can be "bad" if you go hard for too long, but they seem to be holding it togeather

Heres a problem, what would happen in the few weeks after an abrupt cessation of the supply of pee?

the answer is chaos, of course, has anyone got a bunker I can hide in?


how about a reality show "P Island" put em all on an island, with no weapons and take away the drugs......

[Whynot]

how about a reality show "P Island" put em all on an island, with no weapons and take away the drugs......

maybe leave one weapon .... hidden somewhere and have a treasure map showing where it is .... and group the addicts into two teams and have them vote each other off the island after various challanges.

or not ...:innocent:

[pervert]

Seriously,last week some current affairs program had some retards using the latest legal hallucinogen on the market

The 'latetst legal hallucinogen' thats been easily available over the counter for over 6 years here. Way to get your facts right! Hahaha.

[_Gina_]

SOUNDS LIKE ME ON A MONDAY MORNING.

I WAS TELLING MY MATE A GOOD JOKE , IT WENT LIKE THIS , WHAT DO YOU GIVE A MAN FOR CHRISTMAS WHO HAS EVERYTHING ? GIVE HIM P AND SOON HE'LL HAVE NOTHING , SADLY IT CAME TRUE FOR HIM
OR -

Why was the P addict so happy December the 1st?

Because there was only one more sleep 'till Xmas.....


P is not the same as Heroin or Alcohol or Dope or in my opinion.

I think that alot of people who take it pretty much convince themselves that, other than not being able to sleep when they want to, it's a good drug because they feel creative, positive and productive while on it without feeling "out of it"....

This feeling obviously only lasts until you are awake for days on end and then it obviously all can turn to shit pretty fast.

I know of people who use daily that have lost their family, all the money they can get their hands on and are shadows of their former selves by using P. The people I speak of are addictive personality types (smoking, drinking, gambling etc) and everything is taken to the extreme.

I also know of people who use every weekend and they don't have any spare money, the credit card takes a hammering constantly and they pretty much under perform at work (comedown Tuesday anyone???) they are aware they need to lay off it, but don't, generally because of the social circle they are keeping and to stop would mean a change in friends, a complete change of lifestyle type thing.

I know of people who have become the above and have stopped before it's turned to crap. Some can never touch the stuff again and some can have the occassional "puff" without reverting.

I think my point here is: Not all people who use this drug in whichever way, are the "one touch and your fucked" people that the media, govt and police would have you believe happens to everyone who tries P.

Good luck with the family situation MrPeanut.

G

[SPman]

One of my sisters is a long term heroin addict. - been through the methadone program - has been a speed freak - smokes up large, Had Hep.C,.. etc, etc. All the usual junkie trail to hell. She's basically f**ked!

Even she won't touch P - she reckons it's worse than H (if thats possible)!

[Badcat]

i've seen friends fall to both heroin and meth (P).
personally, the meth users were worse.
Heroin users just steal and lie.
Meth users do all that, and want to fuck with you too.
If they are family, do EVERYTHING you can to remove them from the social circle that meth users move in.
If they aren't family, cut them out of your life.
Just my .02.

ken

[Big Dave]

I was wondering whether a side-effect was failure to observe the accepted convention of putting a space after fullstops and starting a new sentence with a capital letter?

there was a time in online communication where this was good manners.

the ascii ansii wars of '92.

[marty]

gutsy call to air this in open forum.

respect.

[Big Dave]

respect.

So don't quote it as requested?

[pervert]

Hahahaha yeah...nice work marty, you obviously read the post thoroughly.

[iwilde]

it seems to be the new social gathering point, like taking a doz to a mates house on a Friday night and getting pissed, now it's grab a point and chuff it up. I've changed my social outing friends a few times now to just keep the shit away from me. Living in South Akl you get to see normal average
Joes turn into shitheads very quickly!

[kiwifruit]

thanks marty

[The_Dover]

The main flaw in your argument(s) is that speed and P are the same drug tecnically, P has alot more meth than speed, P stands for pure meth, speed has a small ammount of P in it so to speak. 1gram of P does not = 1 gram of speed.

that's where you're wrong dickhead.

they are both methamphetamine. C10H15N

get a chemistry book.

[onearmedbandit]

Kiwifruit, couldn't give you rep. I won't quote your post (and I'm sure Marty will delete his) but I'd like to say congrats on sorting your stuff out and for making a positive change for you, your family, and your friends. Big balls to post that on a forum mate (esp. this forum!).

[The_Dover]

it's ok, marty has made worse admissions on KB.

He used to be a cop.

[marty]

didn't see that. quote's gone anyway.

[mstriumph]

..... chrystal meth? cocaine? heroin?

good grief - i have enuff trouble with adreneline!!

[marty]

that's where you're wrong dickhead.

they are both methamphetamine. C10H15N

get a chemistry book.

they are, but p is 'supposed' to be pure. speed is accepted to be cut

[marty]

Hahahaha yeah...nice work marty, you obviously read the post thoroughly.


i've got a short attention s

[The_Dover]

they are, but p is 'supposed' to be pure. speed is accepted to be cut

no shit? I always wondered why they called it pee

[Joni]

didn't see that. quote's gone anyway.Yes I removed it in respect to Kiwifruits request.

[marty]

i saw. thanks.

[awesker]

One hit and you're fucked.


dude, dont be so general. Im not going into details but I know people that kept it recreational, and (while the effects were visible) shook it off after a while. But in saying that, its still something not to messed about with thats for sure, and after seeing a loved one on it, and how it effects the mind.. gah, fucking horrible shit. But yeah, you are right 99% of the people who take it will go fall under its curse. Evil shit.



The media/government/cops have blown the P "epidemic" out of all proportion.

Agree with Dover on that one.

[MrMelon]

they are, but p is 'supposed' to be pure. speed is accepted to be cut

I thought speed was the name given to amphetamine (i guess methamphetamine is technically an amphetamine), and P or ice was the name given to methamphetamine which is more potent.

Amphetamine on the left, methamphetamine on the right.

Either way both are bad news.

[Teflon]

One hit and you're fucked.


Wish the crack i've smoked was that good.. Meth is boring, give me a good E any day.

Most of the crack smokers i know were already fucked in the head.. now they have a excuse and somthing to blame when they fuck people over.

[Ixion]

Does Singapore have a problem with P (serious question)

[onearmedbandit]

Then use a question mark (?) Ixion.

[Teflon]

Seriously,last week some current affairs program had some retards using the latest legal hallucinogen on the market,these morons actually sounded like they aspired to be Cheech and Chong

I agree. You need a torch lighter, and when taking a hit, hold for at least 30 seconds.. god knows how they got smashed smoking it like that.

Also, vaporizers don't work with this herb. I've tried.

[chanceyy]

thanks to everyone who has had personal dealing with this issue, & esp to kiwifruit kudos & bling dude ..

I personally think the crap that is ready available & gets ppl so sucked into a deceptive, unproductive, crap lifestyle is blardy scary ..

I worry for my neices & nephew, & my freinds kids .. everyone else does have a choice to try or not..

[The Pastor]

that's where you're wrong dickhead.

they are both methamphetamine. C10H15N

get a chemistry book.

Yes they have the same "drug" but P is more refiend than speed. Like differnt grades of oil, there still oil but one is stronger/differnt that another (depending how you look at it).

Take 1g of speed, wait a month, then take a gram of P and then tell me there the same.

If they are the same, why is the price differnt?

[doc]

P and speed are not the same thing - P is what is known as Crystal Meth in US and Europe and it's starting to have a similar effect over there, in spite of the fact that cocaine is cheap as chips...

Finally someone who seems to know what they are talking about.

[Hitcher]

I thought it was called P to make it easier to spell for illiterate, shuffling hoodies...

[doc]

that's where you're wrong dickhead.

they are both methamphetamine. C10H15N

get a chemistry book.

But P being pure has a faster and more efficient up take. Use and see if you have the mad gene it will pop out quicker with P. The difference at coalface is described as putting the highest octane gas in your diesel SUV .Tries to go like fuck before it blows up.

[Al]

Everything in this thread is :gob: because that is what is happening all around us!
I have found that here in Darwin there is "less" of a drug -culture than there was in Auckland. There is a lot of pot around, but as far as the others go, sight unseen!

As with other addictions, if the person doesn't want to stop, the person WILL NOT STOP, no matter what anyone tries to do for/with them...

Be careful out there, these "users" are also driving on the roads that we use...

Al

[Shadows]

A guy at work is on it.......he's always late and has the occasional day off and also has bad mood swings, almost bordering on violent.

Man. Every body at work must think I'm on the stuff too!

[terbang]

Does Singapore have a problem with P (serious question)
About as much as Jakarta has..

[SixPackBack]

Does Singapore have a problem with P (serious question)


Treating drug addicts as hardened criminals is perhaps the worst possible way to intervene, after all many of us have 'addictive' personalities. My current addiction is Motorcycles, thankfully a legal persuit.
Drug addiction is a sickness or want that in many cases precludes a criminal mind or intent.
Treatment is called for not jail time.

[El Dopa]

Absolute horse shit that it's as addictive as heroin.

If heroin was readily available in NZ and as cheap as some european countries then we'd see the effects of a REAL drug problem.

The media/government/cops have blown the P "epidemic" out of all proportion.

Fuck, half the kids I went to school with were into speed at the weekends and still lead normal lifes but the physical effects of heroin addiction are disturbingly visible.

Mate, 'P' isn't the same as the cheap sulph that was around when you and me were growing up in the UK.

I've got a reasonably liberal attitude towards recreational drug taking. I wouldn't touch this stuff. A mate at work still goes out occasionally and does the whole hardcore weekend thing. If I found out he was taking meth, he'd be getting a fucking good slap upside the head. Not that I think it would do any good.

[DMNTD]

This is not a drug you can take recreationally, even heroin users have more control over their habit.
Who's told ya this shit? It's crap I assure you!
There are plenty of good people that smoke/snort the shit every weekend but lead an otherwise "normal" lifestyle. Their kids are well looked after,food on the table,bills paid etc.
Always seems easier to only look at the worst of the users/abusers and blanket everyone as mongrels/junkies. Naive statements from people with no experience I believe but that's the way of the sheep I guess. :zzzz:


One hit and you're fucked.

100% not true!! Someone be telling you porkies :yes:

[terbang]

Treatment is called for not jail time.

I think you'll find that Singapore and Jakarta offer a little more than jail time fo drug offences. Especialy the ones that courier and sell em..!

[doc]

Does Singapore have a problem with P (serious question)

They use to solve their problem publicly. Too many drunken Aussie's offering verbal support. Lee Quan yue didn't like them getting free entertainment. This is where all the PC bullshit started from.

[Hitcher]

Who's told ya this shit? It's crap I assure you!

It's statements like this that explain why nobody really cares what brain-dead losers do in their own homes. Smoke P. Beat their partners and their kids. Cut the ears off their dogs. If people need to get regularly wasted on dodgy drugs, something must be seriously wrong with their lives. Their behaviour should not be accepted or condoned.

[DMNTD]

It's statements like this that explain why nobody really cares what brain-dead losers do in their own homes. Smoke P. Beat their partners and their kids. Cut the ears of their dogs. If people need to get regularly wasted on dodgy drugs, something must be seriously wrong with their lives. Their behaviour should not be accepted or condoned.

Well you're entitled to your opinion,as are they....as long as it doesn't affect others which believe it or not sometimes it doesn't.
Would you rather believe that the "facts" stated in some places were true,even if they weren't? That would be ignorant surely?
ALL I am trying to point out is that not every user should be classed the same...that is all!
I do not condone/use P btw... not at all.

[ManDownUnder]

I think you'll find that Singapore and Jakarta offer a little more than jail time fo drug offences. Especialy the ones that courier and sell em..!



Let's assume we want our loved ones back... free of P and to participate in our lives again...

Treatment is needed -and jail time for the bastards making and dealing in the shit... so what treatments?

As family or a friend, where do you go to find out more about it, signs of use, effective interventions to help your addited other, and how to look after yourself in the meantime?

[Paul in NZ]

Treating drug addicts as hardened criminals is perhaps the worst possible way to intervene, after all many of us have 'addictive' personalities. My current addiction is Motorcycles, thankfully a legal persuit.
Drug addiction is a sickness or want that in many cases precludes a criminal mind or intent.
Treatment is called for not jail time.

Thats the truth - one twist of the thottle and I was hooked....

Point is - you can get 'addicted' to anything including train spotting or gardening. We live in a very liberal society that allows us to induldge in alsorts of selfish antisocial activities as long as we behave reasonably and function in that society. These addictions are called passions.

However - some addictions are very very destructive.

Alcohol is a classic. The damage done is by this is horiffic and yet I drink every week. Thats OK.... I'm a recreational drinker because on monday morning I get my sorry arse out of bed and go to work and get on with the business that keeps society functioning.

Drugs like P, Heroin etc are very bad things for society. Even if the same number of people get hooked on the first hit is the same as people addicted to booze on the first drink - the damage is apparent to all and worst - there is a whole underground culture to supply this shit.

As a society we have got weak, weak on ourselves worst of all. We lowered the drinking age and we are soft on drugs / drug scene. Personally - I think we sould toughen the fuck up and treat the drug industry with the same hardness we have taken with the road toll for exactly the same reasons. If a few drug dealers shoot each other to death I don't care but it's the kids they are fathering, the families they are destroying, the crime that leaves kids scared and afraid - fuck em. I'll give up the booze if thats what it takes to build a better country so i can enjoy MY addiction - erm passion...

[Hitcher]

I do not condone/use P btw... not at all

But you're saying that it's OK for some people to use it. So that must mean that it's OK for people to manufacture it and sell it. Even to school kids. And that those people whose lives are totally fucked by using it should get over themselves. And people who go berserk with samurai swords under the influence and lop off arms and other body parts are just misunderstood. And that it's OK for people to break into other folks' homes and steal their goods to sell off to pay for their habit, because all that stuff's insured and the insurance companies will pay out. No harm done.

[DMNTD]

But you're saying that it's OK for some people to use it. So that must mean that it's OK for people to manufacture it and sell it. Even to school kids. And that those people whose lives are totally fucked by using it should get over themselves. And people who go berserk with samurai swords under the influence and lop off arms and other body parts are just misunderstood. And that it's OK for people to break into other folks' homes and steal their goods to sell off to pay for their habit, because all that stuff's insured and the insurance companies will pay out. No harm done.

Don't be stupid...ofcourse it is not ok to do the serious crimes that P gets assocoiated with! Bloody hell mate. But if you read my post properly,or maybe if I wrote if properly,you would've seen that.
As stated before all I'm trying to point out is that not everyone that take P is someone like the mongrels you've stated in your post.
Not sure how you got what you did from it but sure...ok.

[Hitcher]

Don't be stupid...

So were you or were you not saying that it's OK for some people to use P?

Let's get that clear before we move on into a more reasoned discussion as to why so-called "normal" people would want to get off on this shit in the first place, with no quality assurance standards in place regarding its manufacture, and a HUGE weight of reputable medical evidence that will testify that: 1. They are already addicts, and: 2. That P will fuck their brains.

[SixPackBack]

But you're saying that it's OK for some people to use it.

Some people die from eating Peanuts!!.....should we ban them? no of course not. And while as much as I hate 'P' there will be plenty of individuals within N.Z who use it and lead normal lives.......what to do in these liberal times?

[Hitcher]

Some people die from eating Peanuts!!

People are more likely to die from choking on peanuts than from anaphylactic shock from eating them. Don't get me started on peanut allergies and soccer mums who want to ban peanut butter from school lunches. It's the fact that more New Zealanders are worried about peanut allegies or car accidents caused by drivers using cellphones than the P or domestic violence epidemics that shits me to tears.

Oh, and the "death toll" from New Zealanders last year due to anaphylactic shock? Four. That's one-in-a-million. The same actuarial risk as being struck by lightning.

[Edbear]

'P' there will be plenty of individuals within N.Z who use it and lead normal lives




Evidence? Or is this an assumption? I think those who deal directly at the "coal face", the cops, the Drs. and nurses, the Ambulance drivers, the judges, the rehab treatment centres, the Morticians, etc. would be well placed to comment..

[DMNTD]

So were you or were you not saying that it's OK for some people to use P?
What I'm trying to say is that some people have the will power/inner strength,whatever you chose to call it to partake in occassional use of recreational drugs including P/speed and not rob gas stations,murder/hurt innocents and all that terrible bullshit that is associated with P etc.


Let's get that clear before we move on into a more reasoned discussion as to why so-called "normal" people would want to get off on this shit in the first place, with no quality assurance standards in place regarding its manufacture, and a HUGE weight of reputable medical evidence that will testify that: 1. They are already addicts, and: 2. That P will fuck their brains.
As far as why would "normal" people would chose to partake in recreational drugs...well,that can really only be answered by the individual mate. I chose not to take it...I chose to get off on motorbikes. Both are dangerous and both can affect others in tragic ways too yet more people die from motorcycling that taking P or the results of someone else taking P and affecting other's lives.
Yes NZ has a problem with P abusers and yes it should be seriously addressed ASAP.

[DMNTD]

Evidence? Or is this an assumption? I think those who deal directly at the "coal face", the cops, the Drs. and nurses, the Ambulance drivers, the judges, the rehab treatment centres, the Morticians, etc. would be well placed to comment..
Fact...I know some people exactly like that.
The Cops,nurses etc that you mention see the worst of the worst extreme cases hence their views are not completely clear.

People please don't get me wrong...the bad abusers of P and such drugs are mongrels and should be sorted hard!!

[Hitcher]

And something else that has been bothering me all day is the gap closing between the red and blue lines on this thread's poll. The thought that what it is telling us may be true suggests that it may well be time to load up the guns and head off to a commune of like-minded and well-armed souls in the boondocks somewhere.

[Big Dave]

What I'm trying to say is that some people have the will power/inner strength,whatever you chose to call it to partake in occassional use of recreational drugs including P/speed and not rob gas stations,


.........yet.

Every one that I have known has gone cold turkey or ended in 'tragedy'.

[DMNTD]

.........yet.
I never did...past tense btw!
Abuse of P will lead to serious "negatives" for a lack of a better word.
Occasional use of a small amount does not if ya half human to start with.

[Edbear]

Fact...I know some people exactly like that.
The Cops,nurses etc that you mention see the worst of the worst extreme cases hence their views are not completely clear.

People please don't get me wrong...the bad abusers of P and such drugs are mongrels and should be sorted hard!!




Understand your point, but too often we hear that statement. If you personally know people using such drugs, keep an eye on them and see what they do. Are their lives really so normal?

It's just that every case I hear about, either first or second hand, describes a sure degeneration of the user into dishonesty and paranoia and a slide into isolation and crime. Even if they seem to be "normal" for some time, especially with "P" is the end seemingly inevitable.

While other drugs can and do bring out latent tendencies, it seems "P" is particularly noted for completely changing one's personality. Hence why I can get rolling drunk, (not any more, I don't like the after-effects!), and be completely mellow while someome else may become violent. One cannot compare such hard drugs to alcohol.

Of course alcohol causes huge misery, but that's not the point I'm making here. (Or am I being obtuse...?)

[Hitcher]

Occasional use of a small amount does not if ya half human to start with.

So you're a qualified pharmacological epidemiologist. In that case I bow to your superior knowledge and insight.

[Big Dave]

I never did...past tense btw!
Abuse of P will lead to serious "negatives" for a lack of a better word.
Occasional use of a small amount does not if ya half human to start with.



I never have or will use class 'A' s either.
Partly because of what hitcher says, partly for repsect of my wife and partly because i know what an addictive personality type I have.
All I can offer is that your quote has not been my experience - or rather, the experience of those I have seen fall victim. And they have been big falls from blokes that 'had it under control.'

[DMNTD]

So you're a qualified pharmacological epidemiologist. In that case I bow to your superior knowledge and insight.
Wow nice attitude Hitcher. I know what I know from first hand experience with that particular drug ok. Insight I do have cause I have delt with people that abuse P...I have more than a little knowledge on the subject.
I'm not some guy that is assuming everything I read or hear on the news if 100% correct.
Most people like to know both sides of the story to get a more complete view of what is going on but it appears that you sir are not one of them...that is your choice and you are more than entitled to it. :yes:




Understand your point, but too often we hear that statement. If you personally know people using such drugs, keep an eye on them and see what they do. Are their lives really so normal?

It's just that every case I hear about, either first or second hand, describes a sure degeneration of the user into dishonesty and paranoia and a slide into isolation and crime. Even if they seem to be "normal" for some time, especially with "P" is the end seemingly inevitable.

While other drugs can and do bring out latent tendencies, it seems "P" is particularly noted for completely changing one's personality. Hence why I can get rolling drunk, (not any more, I don't like the after-effects!), and be completely mellow while someome else may become violent. One cannot compare such hard drugs to alcohol.

Of course alcohol causes huge misery, but that's not the point I'm making here. (Or am I being obtuse...?)

Yes sir I most certainly do keep a close eye on them and yes they are doing just fine,in saying that they were "good people" to start with :yes:
Yes I am aware that to some of you the sounds like a contradiction but there are people of there that partake in illegal substances occasionally that are not involved in any gang or criminal(apart from the drug) activities and have got their lives together otherwise.
Yes I am well aware that some that use P are...almost all that abuse P are involed.

BTW....maybe I should also point out that I helped many(30+) people get off P and will continue to do so in the future

[laf laf]

After reading the posts does anyone have better suggestions for other drug use for Big day out '07?

[Edbear]

After reading the posts does anyone have better suggestions for other drug use for Big day out '07?



May I suggest a fine wine...?:yes:

[Hitcher]

Iocane powder should do it for you.

[Ixion]

.........yet.

Every one that I have known has gone cold turkey or ended in 'tragedy'.

I know nothing about such matters, something I am glad of. But logically one would presume that such observations are self fulfilling ? Those who use it and can't handle it will make themselves obvious. Those who use it but can handle it (if any) will probably pass unnoticed. After all people don't go round with a stamp on their foreheads saying "I use P .Can you tell?".

[Colapop]

Baking powder - stay home and make a cake.

[SixPackBack]

Evidence? Or is this an assumption? I think those who deal directly at the "coal face", the cops, the Drs. and nurses, the Ambulance drivers, the judges, the rehab treatment centres, the Morticians, etc. would be well placed to comment..

A mathmatical certainty, given the supposed user base, consumption E.T.C.

[scumdog]

I never did...past tense btw!
Abuse of P will lead to serious "negatives" for a lack of a better word.
Occasional use of a small amount does not if ya half human to start with.

.

IMHO?? ANY use is abuse, but what would I know, I just deal with the wreckage of lives it destroys and try to pick up the pieces for those left if possible...

[SixPackBack]

IMHO?? ANY use is abuse, but what would I know, I just deal with the wreckage of lives it destroys and try to pick up the pieces for those left if possible...

True Scummy but by default your postion precludes you from seeing users not destroyed or significantly changed by their habit.

[for the record!! never tried it never will ]

[DMNTD]

IMHO?? ANY use is abuse, but what would I know, I just deal with the wreckage of lives it destroys and try to pick up the pieces for those left if possible...
Sure,but do you agree that you'd see the worst end of the abuse? IE: the fuckwit that has just stabbed/beaten/robbed some poor person?

As I've stated earlier I do not condone the use of P...and I've also stated that I have helped many to get off P. I'm just trying to point out that not all are exactly the same...that is it.

[terbang]

Quite frankly I don't give a rats arse if people, informed people aware of the risks, take drugs. As long as they go and blow their brains out (not in my backyard) in the privacy of their own lives and don't impinge upon the lives of others, then go for it. However don't expect me to pick up the tab when it all goes wrong. Though I know I do through paying taxes and because alcohol is legal. The ones that really get up my nose are the ones that make a living out of supplying Drugs. Whether it be couriers or sellers it doesnt matter and they get very rich on selling this shit. Like any sort of a salesman, with practised pitch and propoganda, they will prey on those that are easy to sell to, like teenagers and the likes who don't yet have the maturity to see past tomorrow let alone the rest of their lives. Many are not fully informed about the substance they are about to be introduced to. A great way for some to start their lives..!

[scumdog]

True Scummy but by default your postion precludes you from seeing users not destroyed or significantly changed by their habit.

[for the record!! never tried it never will ]


Sure, but just trying to balance the "it's o.k' point of view.
Those destructively and badly affected by drug use cause a ripple effect on those around them, possibly up to X10.

Those NOT not so affected by the drug use obviously do not affect anybody - BUT of course this is taking into consideration their work record and financial affect on family and friends which, ergo a negative effect, no winners eh?

[WINJA]

Im Addicted To Masturbation , Where Can I Get Help?

[DMNTD]

Im Addicted To Masturbation , Where Can I Get Help?
Mate just spit on it and take the matter in hand

[Whynot]

Im Addicted To Masturbation , Where Can I Get Help?

you could probably start here ....

http://www.allaboutlifechallenges.org/masturbation-addiction.htm
and
http://www.sexualcontrol.com/masturbation-addiction.html

[scumdog]

Im Addicted To Masturbation , Where Can I Get Help?From "Ky-R-Us"?

[Big Dave]

I know nothing about such matters, .


Cocaine habit-forming? Of course not. I ought to know. I’ve been using it for years.- Bankhead, Tallulah (http://education.yahoo.com/reference/quotations/author/Bankhead%2C+Tallulah;_ylt=AtPvoaqeJ4PzJn66kr9LJGdX Cc0F)

You know your mates.

I started typing my list of the dead or casualties but it was just long and sad.
Don't do class As and I'm leaving it at that.

[SN4PD]

Im Addicted To Masturbation , Where Can I Get Help?

HERE (http://tinyurl.com/y83hoj)

[Ixion]

About as much as Jakarta has..

Um, that doesn't help me, I don't know if Jakarta does either. I was going to suggest that if we did as singapore does and hanged the dealers , we might have fewer problems. Then realised that I didn't actually know if Singapore had a problem or not.



Treating drug addicts as hardened criminals is perhaps the worst possible way to intervene, after all many of us have 'addictive' personalities. My current addiction is Motorcycles, thankfully a legal persuit.
Drug addiction is a sickness or want that in many cases precludes a criminal mind or intent.
Treatment is called for not jail time.


Possibly granted- I'm not entirely convinced. But may we distinguish the addicts from the dealers? The addict, like an alcoholic, may not be entirely in control of what they do. I doubt the same is true for the "kingpins" who make the big money from the trade.

(And yes, I know we don't hang the sellers of alcohol. But , given the relative ratios of consumers, it appears that we see more major problems attributed to P than to ethanol)

[Big Dave]

Im Addicted To Masturbation , Where Can I Get Help?

NWS.

deleted before G rating timeslot starts.

[Ixion]

Cocaine habit-forming? Of course not. I ought to know. I’ve been using it for years.- Bankhead, Tallulah (http://education.yahoo.com/reference/quotations/author/Bankhead%2C+Tallulah;_ylt=AtPvoaqeJ4PzJn66kr9LJGdX Cc0F)

You know your mates.

I started typing my list of the dead or casualties but it was just long and sad.
Don't do class As and I'm leaving it at that.

Actually, I know noone who, to my knowledge uses or has used anything stronger than marijuana. In my youff I knew people who hung out with people who were reputed to use heroin,that's as near as I've got. I had a very sheltered upbringing!

[scumdog]

NWS.


MY favourite site too!

But no 'P'.

[SixPackBack]

Sure, but just trying to balance the "it's o.k' point of view.
Those destructively and badly affected by drug use cause a ripple effect on those around them, possibly up to X10.

Those NOT not so affected by the drug use obviously do not affect anybody - BUT of course this is taking into consideration their work record and financial affect on family and friends which, ergo a negative effect, no winners eh?

Point taken Scummy. It just pisses me off that presently the government makes truck loads of cash out of Alcohol and Tobacco, two drugs that cause measurably more damage than 'P'. Couple this with failed drug policies over many years and its easy to be cynical.

[Big Dave]

than to ethanol

[/size][/font]

Always with the two strokes:slap:

[scumdog]

Point taken Scummy. It just pisses me off that presently the government makes truck loads of cash out of Alcohol and Tobacco, two drugs that cause measurably more damage than 'P'. Couple this with failed drug policies over many years and its easy to be cynical.

I hear you - but the way I see it is: We already have a shark (alcohol) and a man-o-war (tobacco) in the pool, so why would we want to introduce a crocodile ('P') as well???

i.e. Having two evils here already is no justification for accepting a third.

[DMNTD]

I hear you - but the way I see it is: We already have a shark (alcohol) and a man-o-war (tobacco) in the pool, so why would we want to introduce a crocodile ('P') as well???

i.e. Having two evils here already is no justification for accepting a third.
100% agreed...now how the hell to get rid of the Croc? Need another Croc Hunter :dodge:

[Mr. Peanut]

dude, dont be so general. Im not going into details but I know people that kept it recreational, and (while the effects were visible) shook it off after a while. But in saying that, its still something not to messed about with thats for sure, and after seeing a loved one on it, and how it effects the mind.. gah, fucking horrible shit. But yeah, you are right 99% of the people who take it will go fall under its curse. Evil shit.



Agree with Dover on that one.

I don't see the point of that attitude. You want to try it? Fuck it, evil shit. It's a shit drug and there's better things out there if you want to experiment.

[The_Dover]

100% agreed...now how the hell to get rid of the Croc? Need another Croc Hunter :dodge:

That's all well and good until some cunt sets a sting ray loose.

[Big Dave]

MY favourite site too!

But no 'P'.

delete the quote/link scummy - joke's done and there'll be youngin's about in the morning

[scumdog]

delete the quote/link scummy - joke's done and there'll be youngin's about in the morning

Point taken - but how DO I remove it??

Has that done it??

[Big Dave]

Point taken - but how DO I remove it??

Edit your reply and delete it. - yep done.

[scumdog]

Edit your reply and delete it.

Ya jumped the gun - I went back and did it 'between times.

BTW, While I voted that I know people that 'do' 'P' you can figure out what kind of people they are.

[Big Dave]

Ya jumped the gun - I went back and did it 'between times.


Jumped schmumped - I'm just fast buddy.

Was in at AMPS today.
'Were you on 16 on the Buell yesterday dave - I think you passed me in my car'?
'Yeah i was.'
'Very impressive.'
'What was.'
'What was behind you.'
'Yeah, that Aprilla Factory, New Fireblade and the Hyabusa kept up OK, eh.'

mwahhahahahahaha!

[SixPackBack]

I hear you - but the way I see it is: We already have a shark (alcohol) and a man-o-war (tobacco) in the pool, so why would we want to introduce a crocodile ('P') as well???

i.e. Having two evils here already is no justification for accepting a third.

Logically if we are to allow the 'twin evils' then any and all substances should not only be legal but the Government should be making truck loads of tax from them.

Either a totally interventional system where not only Drugs/Alcohol are banned but so is Coffee, Mcdonalds ETC.
OR
Legalise the frigen lot!!

[Edbear]

but so is Coffee,



NOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT DA COFFEE..!!!!!!!!:gob:

[Ixion]

Logically if we are to allow the 'twin evils' then any and all substances should not only be legal but the Government should be making truck loads of tax from them.

Either a totally interventional system where not only Drugs/Alcohol are banned but so is Coffee, Mcdonalds ETC.
OR
Legalise the frigen lot!!

Your logic is deficient.

By the same process you could argue that if sticks are to be legal then anyone must be allowed to own an arsenal of machineguns without control.

It is perfectly logical, and sensible, for society to say "These things cause many problems, we will not permit them to be freely sold or possessed; these things cause minor problems, but they are less serious and we are willing to accept them,they may be possessed and sold with some restrictions; these items cause few problems, they may be freely bought and sold".

That is the very purpose of law, to make such distinctions. Otherwise you might as well argue that since a 5 year old may use roller skates, a 5 year old should be able to drive a motor vehicle without restriction.

[fozz rock]

I think most people on this thread have dont know what the fuck they are talking about!

"p" or fry (new street name) can fuck you up as bad can pot and alcohol can.
it all comes down to the user and their using

i did a rehab 3 years ago and now work to help other, the most fucked up person i've meet in that time was because of alcohol(beer) and i meet people who "bang" P

most people in the know will tell you the evilist drug out there is methadome (liquid handcuffs) and your GP puts you on that shit

[Skyryder]

Mate just spit on it and take the matter in hand

Either that or 'get a grip' on yourself.

Skyryder

[SixPackBack]

It is perfectly logical, and sensible, .

Sensible such a 'granny' word [you could be right]. But in this case not logic.

You can kill yourself with Alcohol and Tobacco why not 'P'? they are all drugs are they not?

[Ixion]

Logical enough. it is a matter of degree. You can kill yourself with water, too. There needs to be a line drawn where society says "That shit is just too dangerous". F'instance, we don't allow people to buy nitroglycerine or gelignite at the supermarket. One function of a government is to listen to the public (Tui moment here) and decide where the line should be drawn.

Obviously different people will have a different idea of where the line should be drawn. Some will think that P should not be excluded. Some, on the other hand, will think that tobacco and alcohol should be included (ie prohibited). In general the line gets drawn somewhere around where the majority of people think is appropriate.

Note that i have carefully made no comment as to my own opinion of where the line should be (mainly because I don't really have an opinion).

It also depends on how society views the effect of the consequences of the drugs. Many people may have no objection to people quietly getting off their face. But do object when said people start taking to others with swords. Were the penalties for the antisocial behaviour sometimes (note I said sometimes) consequent on use of drugs more severe, there might be more tolerance of the taking of the drugs. Maybe.

[wybmadiity]

I think it is individual, some people have highly addictive personalities others don't, some can do moderation others only exteme.

[Edbear]

some people have highly addictive personalities others don't,




Know what you mean! To know me is to luff me! People jus' can't 'elp theirselves...:innocent:

[SixPackBack]

I think it is individual, some people have highly addictive personalities others don't, some can do moderation others only exteme.

Lesbian acts??.......now thats addictive:yes:

[wybmadiity]

Lesbian acts??.......now thats addictive:yes:


:rofl: Imagine that :drool: :hug:

[MisterD]

Naive statements from people with no experience I believe but that's the way of the sheep I guess. :zzzz:



It's just people being loose with their logic and statistics. I'm sure that those that are destroyed by this drug are hooked very very quickly. This doesn't of course mean that will be the case for everyone that tries it.

It's a new twist on the old argument that hash leads to heroin.....everyone H addict will have smoked pot, but does that mean...etc etc.

Myself, I have a pretty high tolerance for some drugs, it usually takes the dentist three shots to get my teeth numb enough to drill.

[DMNTD]

:rofl: Imagine that :drool: :hug:
I have a certain picture on my phone... :love:

[wybmadiity]

I have a certain picture on my phone... :love:

My whatever are you talking about ? :innocent: :shifty: LOL

[The_Dover]

Myself, I have a pretty high tolerance for some drugs,

fuck, I wish I did.

One cone and I'm on the phone to Pizza Hut quicker than a souf auckland cop reaching for his tazer

[Big Dave]

You can kill yourself with Alcohol and Tobacco why not 'P'? they are all drugs are they not?


Addicts aren't as likely to steal my helmet for a packet of Benson & Hedges.

[terbang]

Addicts aren't as likely to steal my helmet for a packet of Benson & Hedges.

You hit the nail on the head there big fella. Its all about the costs of feeding such addictions. People get real rich in the drug world. Though it isn't the end users.

[placidfemme]

You hit the nail on the head there big fella. Its all about the costs of feeding such addictions. People get real rich in the drug world. Though it isn't the end users.

About how much is P anyway?

I know they sell it by the gram (not too sure how much a gram is anyway... but I'm told its a tiny amount)...

My old boss used to spend $800 a week on P... Another reason why I won't touch it... just incase I like it... I wouldn't be able to afford to do it...

[DMNTD]

You hit the nail on the head there big fella. Its all about the costs of feeding such addictions. People get real rich in the drug world. Though it isn't the end users.

Sure thing but not people that use it are addicts,theives or violent types and otherwise have very consructive and forfilling(sp) lives lives with no ill effect....fact. :yes:
IE: not all people that have a drink are pissheads...not all people that have the occasional joint are stoners BUT if you were to have too much of anything like the above mentioned ofcourse it'll screw you over...
I agree...hit the manufacturers harder if that is possible :yes:

[SixPackBack]

Addicts aren't as likely to steal my helmet for a packet of Benson & Hedges.


Blame the gubermunt, if 'P' was legal the cost would be minimal. If Ciggys where as expensive as "P' your helmet would have gone missing on the first KB ride.
Tobacco is a very addictive drug indeed.

[scumdog]

Logically if we are to allow the 'twin evils' then any and all substances should not only be legal but the Government should be making truck loads of tax from them.

Either a totally interventional system where not only Drugs/Alcohol are banned but so is Coffee, Mcdonalds ETC.
OR
Legalise the frigen lot!!

Nice troll.

So why isn't the kid with the $200 Chinese slug-gun allowed an M-16 then??

[SixPackBack]

Nice troll.

So why isn't the kid with the $200 Chinese slug-gun allowed an M-16 then??

Not a troll at all. The present sytem fails us lets try some thing new.
The analogy between a slug gun and an M-16 is inaccurate when compared to Tobacco/Alcohol/P. Statistically Alcohol causes far more heartache than P and little compares to Tobaccos death rate, by comparison p is a minor problem. Take away the high purchase price and associated P problems diminish.

[Mr. Peanut]

Alcohol doesn't cost much and is readily available, it is less dangerous than P, and yet causes more damage. Do you think making P cheap and available would improve things?

Mad.

[scumdog]

Alcohol doesn't cost much and is readily available, it is less dangerous than P, and yet causes more damage. Do you think making P cheap and available would improve things?

Mad.

OK, reverse things, make 'P' the common, easily available cheap drug and alcohol the expensive 'undergound' drug.
How do you think things would stack up then?

[neats]

Spent a year studying A & D and do you know what, most of the people who do rehab are ex-junkies. I learn't a lot about the social context of drug use and institutionalisation etc but hey, drugs, drug, drugs are bad news. Even the most level headed, educated, well mannered people fall for it. Why, i do not know nor understand.

[candor]

Hi Mr Peanut. Interesting thread and I wanna touch on a few things.

Hitcher said people must have something wrong in life to get wasted regularly. The thing with P is that its insidious and deceptive cos people don't feel wasted but rather clear headed actually. Therefore P addicts think they are doing fine - feel they are functioning well, tho others can see the evidence they deny (because they feel pretty good moodwise if not psychotic). Some did not have pre existing problems at all - recreational purely.

Know a few people on P who hold good jobs eg National radio etc. But they have become erratic with work (will lose job sometime), home lives crazy eg now domestic violence participants, and their brains are fairly fried (tho they cover well at work by being busy). They used to be normal but now constant dramas / mood swings and a conversation is like talking to a senile person.

Others I know who'd happily recreationally used Dak for years now have their lives in tatters - crime and ripping off mates / rellys to pay for it plus have become aggro types. An ex flatmate in this boat had not paid dealer so got home invaded 2 weeks ago - lost everything to gang "taxes" and she was smashed over.

Another guy I know went down the slippery P slope then robbed a supermarket (it was in his character). Inside a few years as of a couple mths ago. On the way down he went thru psychosis (tho no innate tendency) resulting in both violence and panic attacks (fearing others going to bury him in a rubbish pit). They are not rational - so they rarely if ever seek help. Ex users I've met who were BAD swear they never realised anything was wrong.

All people I know who used have ruined their health and lives and all said they were fine - not addicted etc (yawn). My mother was killed by a driver on P and methadone etc. Asleep at wheel he crossed centreline as had been up all night on P then took downers to settle in daytime. Sedation plus fatigue equals kill an innocent. As with all addicts he continues to deny intoxication had anything to do with the centreline crossing.

Someone said "most people in the know will tell you the evilist drug out there is methadone (liquid handcuffs)." It is correct methadone is the most fatal of abuse drugs. Fatal most often. Its long half life and way of interacting with other drugs means Drs often struggle to get doses right and people easily overdose. It is likely the most dangerous drug out there and kills addicts more often than if they just stayed on heroin (at 4 x the rate of street drug users in NZ).

I used to work in methadone clinic as a nurse and I call it the final solution. Govt fund it only to reduce crime (killing addicts tends to do that). Also some top MPs and MOH staff have shares in the manufacture. Addiction (usually to licits) is the backbone of the Western economy and if not promoted (why did Heilen close all treatment centres) all our lifestyles would take a plunge.

A new product on its way is the pharmaceuticaL cure for P addiction. The ozzies are testing it now. So the more the demand the better for the govt ultimately. Right now they are advertising on the fight against P website to try and get P addicts to try methadone treatment!

Have to touch on addictive personality as it mentioned heaps here. Addiction theory is now incorporatin greater awareness many addicts (the kind who try it once then are instant addicted) don't initially have addictive personality. Rather a physical predisposition due to ? genes, which have caused an odd brain chemistry (low in endorphins - natural happy / relax chemical) which drugs of addiction tend to correct making them feel normal "for first time in my life".

Its also acknowledged that if this state is not originally there in many addicts it becomes a fact as a result of addiction as the brain alters - sometimes permanentl. So the addict takes the drug not because of personality weaknesses but due to the desire to feel normal. The brains of some may renormalise after long abstinence (perhaps aided by 12 steps) - not always though.

I'm in close touch with someone running the fight against P website. She being Maori is convinced all these child homicides are P related. On that suspicion alone I think it should be no great sacrifice for these mythic recreational users who can "handle it" to give it up - as its only cos of the rare people who seem to handle it - or who glamorise it - that the majority who can't handle it - try to - and are in many cases after one try - addicted - and on a course to more likely hurt others than themselves. Kids?!?

PEANUT - I can't add much to the good advice. Except to say if this person accepts help its gonna take a lot. Good on u keeping his kids safe. There is no help available as this govt promotes addiction - the P profitors are suits at end of day! Smart money (judges / Drs etc) - goes into drugs. Its do it ya'self
A new forum with some good support people is here

www.amphetaminedetoxrecovery.com/

Help / advice re treatment options etc is available for thru ADANZ helpline. And for Maori thru Police liason officer. Al anon is a 12 step support group for affected family etc and its usually good.

[mikey]

im sure this whole thread is a repost. went something like
>p is evil. my mum got hooked. she started so she can play pokies all week.
>yeh but some people can handle it
>no its EVIL for everyone
>so are ciggies and beer
>my bro/sis/friend/plumber/boss/neighbour is hooked on the shit an by golly s/he has fuked his life up
>fuck up you liberal fuker,
>fuk you nazi cunt

to quote the best garage band in remuera

"I smoked P and I'm alright
Got on the P stayed up all night
Smoked some weed and stayed inside
Paper said no don't but I wanna make up my own mind
I'm okay I'm alright
I'm allowed to stay up all night
Nanananananana nanananana I'm okay I'm alright

I smoked heaps and I'm okay
Still smokin' I been up all day
Then smoked some weed and didn't cough no no no
I smoked P and I didn't cut anybody's hands off
All I need is a light"

[The_Dover]

im sure this whole thread is a repost. went something like
>p is evil. my mum got hooked. she started so she can play pokies all week.
>yeh but some people can handle it
>no its EVIL for everyone
>so are ciggies and beer
>my bro/sis/friend/plumber/boss/neighbour is hooked on the shit an by golly s/he has fuked his life up
>fuck up you liberal fuker,
>fuk you nazi cunt

to quote the best garage band in remuera

"I smoked P and I'm alright
Got on the P stayed up all night
Smoked some weed and stayed inside
Paper said no don't but I wanna make up my own mind
I'm okay I'm alright
I'm allowed to stay up all night
Nanananananana nanananana I'm okay I'm alright

I smoked heaps and I'm okay
Still smokin' I been up all day
Then smoked some weed and didn't cough no no no
I smoked P and I didn't cut anybody's hands off
All I need is a light"


and that, ladies and gentleman, should be enough deterant for anyone to stay off the pee

[Edbear]

Hi Mr Peanut. Interesting thread and I wanna touch on a few things....



Always good to hear from someone who is first-hand involved or qualified on a subject. Appreciate your post.

Just one thing to add - wasn't it brought out by the medical profession that using 'P' literally attacks the brain? That longer term users' brains had been literally, physically "eaten away" with big holes in them? Can't be sure if it was on a doco about it a while ago. ANyone remember or know the medical facts here?

[pervert]

Deja Voodoo deserve an award for that song...

[ManDownUnder]

Deja Voodoo deserve an award for that song...

I'll be sure to bronze my next dump. Glorifying P ain't a classy option in my world.

[Mr. Peanut]

For the record, it is NOT my mother that got hooked on P. I want to clear that up right now. She is looking after the kids of another family member and in the process of getting custody.

But, of course. All right lie with the biological parent...

[Mr. Peanut]

OK, reverse things, make 'P' the common, easily available cheap drug and alcohol the expensive 'undergound' drug.
How do you think things would stack up then?

I think you're trying to be smart. I drink a beer every few days, if someone decides to make it ultra expensive, I just won't buy it. It's not highly addictive in the way P is.

[ManDownUnder]

I just picked up an English paper and they're strongly considering changing Meth from a Class B to a Class A drug... probably in January coming up, before they start having a noticible level of labs and users popping up.

They're also considering clamping down on the sale of the constituent chemicals. They're looking at the experiences of the US, Australia and NZ...

It seems we're ahead of the world with Meth... quite the coup (not)

[pervert]

I'll be sure to bronze my next dump. Glorifying P ain't a classy option in my world.

...and I care why?

[ManDownUnder]

...and I care why?
You won't till you grow up... give it time

[pervert]

You won't till you grow up... give it time

Yet you're the one with the immature attitude...:yes:

All the song is pointing out is that a person can have smoked P, and still being a perfectly harmless 'normal' person...not a weapon wielding maniac. If you weren't so thick, then you would understand that, not just assume it is "glorifying" the drug.

Duh...

[ManDownUnder]

Yet you're the one with the immature attitude...:yes:


This coming from the author of

...and I care why?


ok - that issue aside


All the song is pointing out is that a person can have smoked P, and still being a perfectly harmless 'normal' person...not a weapon wielding maniac. If you weren't so thick, then you would understand that, not just assume it is "glorifying" the drug.

Duh...

...quick question time

How can a person tell if they're going to be hooked from the first puff (as is reported) or if they're going to be able to control the drug an be normal, and not that weapon wielding maniac?

The song is quite possibly based on the first hand experience of one of the band members, in which it's a valid portrayal of their experience. Fine.

Anyone doing shit that will endanger me and mine for their personal recreational pleasure doesn't get my vote.

Also, any song portraying that 'safe' P experience will be effectively saying "I did it - you can too". It's a basic marketing strategy especially when the message is conveyed by a person or group of some fame or influence. The same reason celebs endorse products. You think Federer wears a Rolex by accident?

Bands get followings - as demonstrated by your coment earlier.

[pervert]

How can a person tell if they're going to be hooked from the first puff (as is reported)

Damn, you went and used the word reported. Here I was thinking you were going to be an interesting challenge...but I was wrong.

Instead, your're just another person who believe's everything the media tells them, yet has no real-world experience on the matter.

Way to go and ruin my fun...

[MrMelon]

Big drug in England is methylenedioxymethamphetamine better known as ecstasy.

Stuff over there can fuck you up because not all of it is coming from Netherlands and Belgium anymore. The stuff coming out of the easter European states and shipped west is far more crudely made and can be very dangerous.

If its not made correctly the chance of a instant permanent chemical imbalace in your brain is far greater. Ive read a couple of case studies on clubbers in London who took some MDMA and developed various mental disorders like Schizophrenia, bi-polar and personality disorders.

MDMA isn't as bad as you make it out to be. There are numerous research papers that show it isn't nearly as toxic as you'd like to believe. There was one big study on MDMA that was published which said it brought on mental illnesses and caused severe problems. It turned out the study was just done on monkeys, using a batch of methamphetamine mislabelled as MDMA and in enormous doses. The study was retracted but the rumours continue to circulate. Here's the link. http://wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60328,00.html

They're trialling MDMA as a possible treatment for parkinsons. It allows someone suffering parkinsons tremors to function completely normally for the duration of the drug's effect.

An ill-informed policeman is a dangerous things to be. MDMA really shouldn't be under the same umbrella as methamphetamine. The only crime you'd get committed by someone on E is getting hugged inappropriately.

The thing that gets me is that about a year ago there was a company legally selling an MDMA analogue in NZ which was professionally made and imported with the approval of the ministry of health. You knew the exact quality and dose you were getting which eliminates any of the risks of getting a contaminated product and eliminates the involvement of criminal elements, but Jim Anderton found out about it and shut it down because it's obviously unsafe. Yet BZP, a much worse drug is still available in dairies. It just doesn't make sense.

[DMNTD]

...quick question time
How can a person tell if they're going to be hooked from the first puff (as is reported) or if they're going to be able to control the drug an be normal, and not that weapon wielding maniac?
As P heightens one's emotional state it would be fair to say that someone that is depressed,insercure and naturally has a tendency for violence with become one or all of those things...but intensified bigtime.
In saying that if one has a happy outlook the same happens there too.
The insercure person would be more likely to become "addicted" than the more together person hence why many that have on occasion that do have their lives together do not become knife weilding nut cases



Anyone doing shit that will endanger me and mine for their personal recreational pleasure doesn't get my vote.
Agreed 100% but see above.

[ManDownUnder]

Instead, your're [sic - cheers fish]just another person who believe's [sic[ cheers again fish] everything the media tells them, yet has no real-world experience on the matter.

Go piss in someone else's pond - you have no idea who I am, where I got my information, how I formed my opinions and how credible it is. I don't care for anyone choosing to do that shit, I'll help anyone wanting to get off it, and I won't give the time of day to anyone defending the stuff... directly or indirectly.

[The_Dover]

Did you even read my post? Im talking about the new crudley made MDMA from the Eastern European states not the stuff made in the Netherlands.

I would still argue that sustained use of MDMA pills from the Netherlands does cause mental problems and is harmful from the results i have seen however not nearly as much as the MDMA being made in the Eastern European states.

you're really not very bright are you D50.

it's not the eastern european MDMA that will do the damage, it's the shit that it's cut with.

geographical location of manufacture has no effect on the properties of an individual chemical. the other shit that is packed in the same pill may differ though.

[pervert]

Go piss in someone else's pond - you have no idea who I am, where I got my information, how I formed my opinions and how credible it is. I don't care for anyone choosing to do that shit, I'll help anyone wanting to get off it, and I won't give the time of day to anyone defending the stuff... directly or indirectly.

I know all about you, you sit there with your morning coffee, reading your newspaper, moaning about this and that...

It's because of people like you that offenders get off lightly. They chop off some hands, get to court and cry P. Suddenly the sentence is reduced because it's the drugs fault.

Stop blaming the drug and start blaming the person.

[DMNTD]

Stop blaming the drug and start blaming the person.
Ahhhhhhh...finally some reality!! :yes:

[MrMelon]

Did you even read my post? Im talking about the new crudley made MDMA from the Eastern European states not the stuff made in the Netherlands.

I would still argue that sustained use of MDMA pills from the Netherlands does cause mental problems and is harmful from the results i have seen however not nearly as much as the MDMA being made in the Eastern European states.

I did. MDMA is MDMA and has the same effects no matter where it's made. You're arguing that other unnamed substances that may be present will cause harm.. well no shit. Shouldn't you have just said that other filler substances that dodgy eastern european chemists put in their pills/crack/whatever are bad for you? MDMA specifically doesn't really have anything to do with it. Anyway the chances are if someone's a heavy MDMA user, then that's not the only substance they'll be abusing. It's pretty hard to narrow effects down to a single substance if they're taking 10 different ones.

There was an article recently about a guy in the UK who had taken over 30k MDMA pills in his lifetime (as well as everything else he was doing) and he had short term memory loss.. What does that say to you about the toxicity of plain old MDMA?

Too much of anything is bad for you be it P, MDMA, weed or cheeseburgers. You can abuse anything if you put your mind to it. It's the person, not just the substance that makes the decision in the end. I don't condone the use of drugs, but I like people to at least look at both sides of the story before making bold statements.

[The_Dover]

I dont agree with that, from what i have seen at work and the case studies from interpol eastern european methods are far more dangerous and the producers in the netherlands are far more careful with their manufacture. Though both are harmful the stuff out of eastern europe is far more dangerous.

Did you think i was trying to say that there was some kind of enviromental factor?

MDMA is MDMA.

it's the impurites that are dangerous.

speakee engrish?

[ManDownUnder]

I know all about you, you sit there with your morning coffee, reading your newspaper, moaning about this and that...
WOW - tell me more. So insightful, wise beyond your years.


It's because of people like you that offenders get off lightly. They chop off some hands, get to court and cry P. Suddenly the sentence is reduced because it's the drugs fault.

Stop blaming the drug and start blaming the person.

errrr ... what? Try reading the posts you're responding to. Here... let me help

Anyone doing shit that will endanger me and mine for their personal recreational pleasure doesn't get my vote.

We're on the same side. I do blame the person. I blame anyone dumb enough to try that shit.

[pervert]

I can see logic is lost on you...:rockon:

[MrMelon]

Yes, do you realise were saying the same thing. The "impurities", "fillers" and the way they combine them with MDMA are what they are far more careless about in eastern europe hence making it more dangerous.

Having said that do you have any moral objection to the occasional use of MDMA if it was strictly made under supervision, sales were restricted to 18+'s and it was in well defined doses? Try replacing the word MDMA with alcohol or tobacco and see how familiar this all sounds. And we already know exactly how much damage alcohol and tobacco cause.

[MrMelon]

I think those legal party pills are more dangerous than MDMA having seen both of their results. I have seen some sick people on ectasy but party pills are more dangerous IMO. I think they should be banned or at least strongly regulated.

Yeah totally.... those things are bad news. They're just too easy to get, cheap and the good effects are average at best and the bad effects are much worse than more illegal alternatives...

Oh well what can you do.

[The_Dover]

Oh well what can you do.

smoke weed.

[pervert]

smoke weed.

Every day.

[Paul in NZ]

Just sampled some of this thread....

Shit - just talking about drugs makes people more violent - hate to see what happens if you take some..

[ManDownUnder]

Stop blaming the drug and start blaming the person.



smoke weed.Every day.
Remind me what you actually think?

[MSTRS]

This thread must be on the electronic version of P. It's been up for days, with no sign of slowing down in sight. Plus, look at the problems it's causing some of the posters....

[pervert]

Remind me what you actually think?

Oh please tell me you lump weed and P in the same boat...or at least close...

That would just confirm everything I've said and make me oh so happy...:yes:

[kiwifruit]

This thread must be on the electronic version of P. It's been up for days, with no sign of slowing down in sight. Plus, look at the problems it's causing some of the posters....

Im glad i got out when i did! :sunny:

[SixPackBack]

Oh please tell me you lump weed and P in the same boat...or at least close...

That would just confirm everything I've said and make me oh so happy...:yes:

Yes....both insidious drugs that fuck your life given half the chance

[pervert]

Yes....both insidious drugs that fuck your life given half the chance

Hahahahahaha I love this...

That depends on the person though surely?

[MSTRS]

Hahahahahaha I love this...

Could you please now go-on and back up your story with some real-life experience to prove this...

He doesn't need to....you are doing a sterling job proving it.:dodge:

[pervert]

He doesn't need to....you are doing a sterling job proving it.:dodge:

Are you saying I've fucked my life up, a big call to make when you know nothing about my personal situtation...???

[MSTRS]

Are you saying I've fucked my life up, a big call to make when you know nothing about my personal situtation...???

I don't know you or your situation. And I make no claims as to your 'condition'. But you are the one defending the indefensible. And we all know that affected people don't know they are affected, usually, until faced with something they can't ignore (if they are lucky). And you changed your post after I quoted it.
For the record, I don't put weed in the same category as P etc. I don't have a problem with weed and think it should be legalised. But P...evil poison, no matter what you might 'think'

[The_Dover]

Yes....both insidious drugs that fuck your life given half the chance

compared to bitches these drugs are harmless.

[scumdog]

MDMA isn't as bad as you make it out to be. BZP, a much worse drug is still available in dairies. It just doesn't make sense.

PROPERLY made MDMA MAY not as bad as some make out - but them how do you know how well the batch was manufactured??? It's not like it is "USF&D Approved" eh?

And BZP? yeah not good - but still see more problems from booze and or a mixture of 'BZP party pills' and booze.

I guess my job does not let me see the 'good' side of drugs. (whatever THAT is!)

[scumdog]

Are you saying I've fucked my life up, a big call to make when you know nothing about my personal situtation...???

Come to Otematata and tell the KBers there ALL about it, let us see for ourselves...

[scumdog]

MDMA is MDMA.

it's the impurites that are dangerous.

speakee engrish?

No shit Sherlock!

So when you buy MDMA does your seller tell you "Disclaimer here, there may be some impurities in this MDMA I am about to sell you"?????????

[scumdog]

Yeah totally.... those things are bad news. They're just too easy to get, cheap and the good effects are average at best and the bad effects are much worse than more illegal alternatives...

Oh well what can you do.

Hey, sounds like booze you're talking about!!

[The_Dover]

No shit Sherlock!

So when you buy MDMA does your seller tell you "Disclaimer here, there may be some impurities in this MDMA I am about to sell you"?????????

personally I wouldn't touch the shit, I get into enough trouble groping people as it is.

my point was that D50 was harping on about "eastern european MDMA" and failing to mention that it was actually eastern european ecstasy tablets that were the issue, due to impurities in the manufacture if the pills.

Absolutely fuck all to do with how the MDMA was synthesised.

Anyway, I thought you were Sherlock?

[Ixion]

No shit Sherlock!

So when you buy MDMA does your seller tell you "Disclaimer here, there may be some impurities in this MDMA I am about to sell you"?????????

Surely a reputable seller would provide a certificate of analysis from a certified testing laboratory ? :innocent:

[Big Dave]

Surely a reputable seller would provide a certificate of analysis from a certified testing laboratory ? :innocent:

And I thought I lived in Disneyland.

[KATWYN]

.

That poem is really good.

Not only did that young girl have looks and clearly she has talent

[ManDownUnder]

Oh please tell me you lump weed and P in the same boat...or at least close...

That would just confirm everything I've said and make me oh so happy...:yes:

Marijuana is to P as petty theft is to armed robbery.

It's not the real deal, it's not as serious but is similar in nature and the two activities can be driven from the same basis (i.e. petty theft leads to armed burg. Dope can lead to P). The one tends to be a good, and typical entry point to the other.

Not every petty theif will go on to be an armed robber, as most dope smokers don't go on to be P addicts. They both have the potential to fuck you up something chronic, they both have the potential to destroy family and IMHO they're both best avoided.

Your thoughts?

[The_Dover]

Not everyone smoking dope will go on to be an armed robber

Your thoughts?

"hey man, give me the fuckin grainwaves, 2 moro bars, 8 packets of twisties, 6 mince and cheese pies...................er......and a packet of green rizla"

"and carry them to the car for me dude......":dodge:

[ManDownUnder]

"hey man, give me the fuckin grainwaves, 2 moro bars, 8 packets of twisties, 6 mince and cheese pies...................er......and a packet of green rizla"

"and carry them to the car for me dude......":dodge:

LOL... bugger - duly edited.

Hey at the risk of getting this back on topic. Any thing to be done for MrPeanut?

[Biff]

Big drug in England is methylenedioxymethamphetamine better known as ecstasy.

Stuff over there can fuck you up because not all of it is coming from Netherlands and Belgium anymore. The stuff coming out of the easter European states and shipped west is far more crudely made and can be very dangerous.

If its not made correctly the chance of a instant permanent chemical imbalace in your brain is far greater. Ive read a couple of case studies on clubbers in London who took some MDMA and developed various mental disorders like Schizophrenia, bi-polar and personality disorders.

There's good 'shit' and bad 'shit'. ‘Disco biscuits’ get a bad press, largely because of misuse and the 'bad shit' you talk of.

I could list many, many examples of 'friend's and acquaintances who have all taken E every weekend, over a relatively significant period of time (years), and held, and still hold very good jobs and have suffered no obvious long-term side effects.

A cop mate of mine back in the UK loved being posted to the 'dance' quarter where I used to live. To the area in my home city mostly frequented by people off their faces on E, loving themselves, and others, in ‘dance (house, garage etc) club’. In all the years he worked that area he never encountered a single instance of a mindless violence from the clubbers, other than from the occasional, usually lost, pissed twat.

Moderation.

Except for P. Nasty evil shit. The kinda shit that gives drugs a bad name. It’s in the same class as heroin and anything amphetamine and/or cocaine based. The evil addictive, seriously mind altering shit that can so easily ruin your life. And seriously effect the lives of others.

Any drug that you need so bad that you have to hurt others to get your next fix – is fucked up.

[Blondini]

Just change it to D for Destroyer.It turns"normal" people into someone that you no longer know the same,This is also called brain damage and affects everyone differently,some people have a greater tolerance others do not ,either way,this is beyond control.Not enough revenue to cover the problem.Really sad to see someone you care about,throw their life away,and unless they recognize the problem,theres not much you can do.If you confront them,you become the enemy,not the drug.Tough topic be wary of our children ...like I say You may as well call it D :love:

[Hillbilly]

I used to be addicted to Crystal Meth, aka Methydrine, which is a more potent form of "speed". "P" gets it's name from the ignorant fucks what cant' say "Psuedoephidrine". "P" is homebaked shit from cold tablets.

Now, crystal meth is a different ballgame. That's a lab made synthetic CNS stimulant. First, I was into coke, but couldn't afford it. So a "friend" shot me up with cyrstal meth. That's right, needles! I never realised I was addicted until one day another friend gane me half a gram. It was a Tuesday night, nothing on except work the next day, and I did the whole half-gram in 4 lines, one after another. Im spent the next 3 days wide awake. Because of the lack of sleep, you become violent and psychotic.

A point of interest is that there isn't the "high" that you get from coke, just the speed. Many live for theb "rush" of adrenaline, especially if you shoot up.
The way to spot the differenec visually is meth has octaganal crystals, whil;e coke has sharp 3-5 sided irregular crystals. it's also a local anestetic, which is why the tip of your tonge goes numb. Coke derivatives include Novacaine, which is what dentisits use. Poelonged snorting rips the sinus cavaties apart.

OK, how did I stop? Cold turkey. Train Spotting brings back a lotta bad memories. BTW, I was advised by the people originally importing
"E" not to touch the shit. It literally "burns out" the neurons around the pituatary gland. Of course, a major component is Crystal Meth. Oh, and modern "acid" is nothing more than Strichnine (rat poison) and heroine.

I'm alive to tell this, and I live a very healthy lifestyle now...

[ManDownUnder]

I used to be addicted to Crystal Meth, aka Methydrine, which is a more potent form of "speed".

...

I'm alive to tell this, and I live a very healthy lifestyle now...


Now THAT'S a qualified opinion. And that's a man that gets my respect. Not for where you've been... but how far you came back.

:niceone: :first:

[Edbear]

. The kinda shit that gives drugs a bad name.


Eh? Drugs have a bad name...!:laugh:


Any drug that you need so bad that you have to hurt others to get your next fix – is fucked up.

Agree!:yes:

[Colapop]

...I'm alive to tell this...
Are there still bad days or have you got it licked? I ask this because, with nicotine for example, I'm told that you never give up - you just control the urge. I am not trying to lessen the severity that 'P', crack, coke, or any of the other 'hard' drugs have, just trying get an idea of the post drug thing. If you thought of the times when you were doing hard drugs, do you think of the hit you got or the mess it made of your life (if it did)? I spose these could be questions you don't want to answer but I'm interested in the wider story/effects/post effects that it has had on you.

[Edbear]

The point has been raised about blaming the person, not the drug and it is valid. I question why people would want to take mind/mood altering drugs, be they alcohol, dope, BZP or hard drugs in order to have a good time. I get high on life and all the fun one can have both with and without pants on...

Drugs that alter my mind interfere with having fun and I much prefer to be in control of my mind, mood and behaviour.

One thing that sets me firmly against smoking, and the same can be said about any illicit or potentially harmful drug, (with the exception of the ones prescribed by a Dr. for a specific purpose), is the attitude of the supplier/manufacturer- they couldn't care less about the harm their product causes, they simply want your money, as much of it as they can get, and preferably all of it! The best way to achieve this is to provide addictive drugs, the more addictive the better.

Why should I put my life and health at risk just to line the pockets of those who make and supply the drugs? They are not the slightest bit interested in my welfare and if I die a horrible death it only means the loss of my money to them! Oh well, on to the next victim!

Another point beginning to emerge is the general attitude of people. Young people, and some older ones), are becoming more aggressive and less respectful in general and less caring about others. While this forum shows the deep feelings we can have for others in cases of need or tragedy, eg. Inline4, it also shows the less desirable traits of some here and the lack of respect and thought for other's views.

Yes, the cops here see the worst of society and may be overly cynical at times, but the weight of evidence shows a deterioration in our society and the comments about the sad state of crime and violence in NZ demonstrate that we are all concerned at what is happening around us.

You wouldn't give a loaded gun to a paranoid schizophrenic, so while it is not the loaded gun that is dangerous per se, it provides the schizo with a means to cause mayhem, ergo, drugs.

I know first hand what drug addiction is like having been addicted to Opiate painkillers, (prescribed), and what it takes to withdraw. It was a living nightmare and something I wouldn't wish on anyone! Kudos to any here who have beaten an addiction!

[SixPackBack]

Are there still bad days or have you got it licked? I ask this because, with nicotine for example, I'm told that you never give up - you just control the urge. I am not trying to lessen the severity that 'P', crack, coke, or any of the other 'hard' drugs have, just trying get an idea of the post drug thing. If you thought of the times when you were doing hard drugs, do you think of the hit you got or the mess it made of your life (if it did)? I spose these could be questions you don't want to answer but I'm interested in the wider story/effects/post effects that it has had on you.

Yes you do eventually 'give up' Nicotine.......many years may pass however!

[scumdog]

Funniest line (sorry about the pun) for a long time was from a 'P' user/maker I was taking to jail for the afforementioned activities:
"You know, years ago people thought cannabis was pretty evil, now everybody just accepts it, there's no harm in it, soon in a couple of years they'll think the same about 'P', they'll just accept it as part of life, it doesn't fuck you up like the TV and papers says it does":lol: :killingme :tugger:

[Skyryder]

Your logic is deficient.

By the same process you could argue that if sticks are to be legal then anyone must be allowed to own an arsenal of machineguns without control.

It is perfectly logical, and sensible, for society to say "These things cause many problems, we will not permit them to be freely sold or possessed; these things cause minor problems, but they are less serious and we are willing to accept them,they may be possessed and sold with some restrictions; these items cause few problems, they may be freely bought and sold".

That is the very purpose of law, to make such distinctions. Otherwise you might as well argue that since a 5 year old may use roller skates, a 5 year old should be able to drive a motor vehicle without restriction.

Sorry Ix, but the analogy is wrong. Both weapons and vehicles have the capacity to do harm to others who have no control of how those indaviduals use the two examples that you have quoted. Drugs on the other hand are self administed by reason of choice. Their abuse in medical terms only affects those that have taken them. No one else. You overdose you die, not the man next door. Now I am not saying that their are no consequences for those in the imediate circle of drug users, obvioulsy there is, but I am of the opinion that much of crime and associated issues could be better managed if the control and distribution was taken out of the dealers and gangs and placed in a regulated commercial environment. It was precisely why the Harrison Act was put in place. It was not the danger,by itself, of the drug. There were no controls over the use and administration.

Skyryder

[scumdog]

Sorry Ix, but the analogy is wrong. Both weapons and vehicles have the capacity to do harm to others who have no control of how those indaviduals use the two examples that you have quoted. Drugs on the other hand are self administed by reason of choice. Their abuse in medical terms only affects those that have taken them. No one else. You overdose you die, not the man next door. Now I am not saying that their are no consequences for those in the imediate circle of drug users, obvioulsy there is, but I am of the opinion that much of crime and associated issues could be better managed if the control and distribution was taken out of the dealers and gangs and placed in a regulated commercial environment. It was precisely why the Harrison Act was put in place. It was not the danger,by itself, of the drug. There were no controls over the use and administration.

Skyryder

Have to disagree, sure only the drug user will die if they overdose, (sometimes the drug is NOT self-administered) - but what about their behaviour prior to overdosing? the aberant social behaviou which may well include violence and injury to others (even if as happens it is not intended).
Not to mention the drag on social services, law enforcement and tax-payers money a waste-of-space not-working-but-still-breeding a total junky is.

[Skyryder]

I hear you - but the way I see it is: We already have a shark (alcohol) and a man-o-war (tobacco) in the pool, so why would we want to introduce a crocodile ('P') as well???

i.e. Having two evils here already is no justification for accepting a third.

I once read and interesting argument countering this view. It was some time ago so do not recall who wrote this. The writer hypothersized that by allowing the wholesale use of drugs in a regulated manner, would in time eliminate or at least drasticly, reduce their usage and acceptability by those who are prone to use these drugs today. He maintained that by removing the 'underground' and criminal association of illegal drugs and bringing the users out into the light of day, those in society that are likely to use them, would be better educated of the risks involved. It is intersting now that this is precisely what is happening with nicotene. The evils of this drug can be readily seen and although this drug is legal it's usage in western society is declining. From this I tend to think that the hypothesis may well be correct.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Have to disagree, sure only the drug user will die if they overdose, (sometimes the drug is NOT self-administered) - but what about their behaviour prior to overdosing? the aberant social behaviou which may well include violence and injury to others (even if as happens it is not intended).
Not to mention the drag on social services, law enforcement and tax-payers money a waste-of-space not-working-but-still-breeding a total junky is.

Only drugs are adminested, self or other wise. The two examples that Ix used are not. So I believe that the analogy that he used on this basis is incorrect. You are right in the 'residual' anti social behavour but see my post in reply to sharks, man'o'war, and crocodiles.

Skyryder

[SixPackBack]

I once read and interesting argument countering this view. It was some time ago so do not recall who wrote this. The writer hypothersized that by allowing the wholesale use of drugs in a regulated manner, would in time eliminate or at least drasticly, reduce their usage and acceptability by those who are prone to use these drugs today. He maintained that by removing the 'underground' and criminal association of illegal drugs and bringing the users out into the light of day, those in society that are likely to use them, would be better educated of the risks involved. It is intersting now that this is precisely what is happening with nicotene. The evils of this drug can be readily seen and although this drug is legal it's usage in western society is declining. From this I tend to think that the hypothesis may well be correct.

Skyryder

In total agreeance. The way ahead is decriminilisation [sp] of all drugs

[The_Dover]

yeah, and make them cheaper too.

[Ixion]

Sorry Ix, but the analogy is wrong. Both weapons and vehicles have the capacity to do harm to others who have no control of how those indaviduals use the two examples that you have quoted. Drugs on the other hand are self administed by reason of choice. Their abuse in medical terms only affects those that have taken them. No one else. You overdose you die, not the man next door. Now I am not saying that their are no consequences for those in the imediate circle of drug users, obvioulsy there is, but I am of the opinion that much of crime and associated issues could be better managed if the control and distribution was taken out of the dealers and gangs and placed in a regulated commercial environment. It was precisely why the Harrison Act was put in place. It was not the danger,by itself, of the drug. There were no controls over the use and administration.

Skyryder

My context was to refute the general logic that if one thing (eg alcohol) is allowed then all things (eg P, heroin) must be allowed.

The argument that much of the evil of the drug trade would be averted by regulation rather than prohibition is a different matter. The argument has some merit - in the 19th century, when heroin, cocaine etc were available without (much) restriction, their usage, though not unknown was heavily censured by society , and usage was rare.

And the example of the prohibition of alcohol in the USA in the 1920s seems to support that.

Which is one reason why I keep an open mind on the subject.

However I think society will always expect to maintain some control. For instance , if the supply and use of P be legalised - should small children be allowed to buy and use it ? Or vendors be permitted to supply it. A packet of sweeties and a gram of P please ? Analagously , the sale and use of alcohol and nicotine is permitted. But not to minors. So what would be the "legal age" for P ?

What about use of P by drivers? Do we really want some trucker on P (legally) who hasn't slept for three days ?

There will always be a need for societal , legal restrictions. The argument is about where to draw the line.

Personally I care not who uses what, so long as it does not cause the user to do shit that threatens or endangers me. Or costs me money.

[Ixion]

Have to disagree, sure only the drug user will die if they overdose, (sometimes the drug is NOT self-administered) - but what about their behaviour prior to overdosing? the aberant social behaviou which may well include violence and injury to others (even if as happens it is not intended).
Not to mention the drag on social services, law enforcement and tax-payers money a waste-of-space not-working-but-still-breeding a total junky is.

The same argument could be used about alcoholism, to support prohibition (and is). Or to support a "motorcyles are dangerous and unnecessary and should be banned" crusade. But the point is a valid one, especially in the short term. If drugs were legalised, eventually people might be repelled by them as happens (to a limited extent) with nicotine. But in shorter term, the mess caused by large numbers of people going hogwild on the stuff could be very nasty and very expensive.

[scumdog]

In total agreeance. The way ahead is decriminilisation [sp] of all drugs

And pistols.
And military style semi auto rifles.There may be a bit of carnage at the start but people would be educated in the dangers of them and would see the horror and negative of them, be repelled and the desire for and use of them would decline. - Pfft! Tuis moment.

Can somebody quote some facts'n'stats to show where in this wide-wide world decriminalising of a drug has resulted in the decline of its use?

Be might interested in hearing of such a place.

[Paul in NZ]

I get VERY nervous about the lets just make em all legal and regulate / tax it theory. yeah - Prohibition was not a great thing...

BUT on the other hand - just look how responsible the Tobacco and Liquour industries have been even in modern times... Give them half a chance with other products and....

No thanks......

[SixPackBack]

.Can somebody quote some facts'n'stats to show where in this wide-wide world decriminalising of a drug has resulted in the decline of its use.

Conversley facts and figures are available to show the present policy has not stopped the rise of P but rather helped criminl gangs amass fortunes.

Scumdog the system fails us, continuing on the same path expecting a different result is madness.

[The_Dover]

good news from europe tho

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10412108

[Hillbilly]

Are there still bad days or have you got it licked? I ask this because, with nicotine for example, I'm told that you never give up - you just control the urge. I am not trying to lessen the severity that 'P', crack, coke, or any of the other 'hard' drugs have, just trying get an idea of the post drug thing. If you thought of the times when you were doing hard drugs, do you think of the hit you got or the mess it made of your life (if it did)? I spose these could be questions you don't want to answer but I'm interested in the wider story/effects/post effects that it has had on you.


That was a long time ago, but you never forget. One interesting thing is I tried Heroine, and didn't like it. Nobody tells you the first thing you do is after shooting up is throw up!. That was enough to begin an addiction though as I found out later. heroine and Crystal Meth are both physically addictive whereas coke is more psycologically addictive. Anyway, years after quitting I went into hospital after having a siezure/minor stroke. the only way to kill to pain was to give me Pethidine, or synthetic Heroine. Thhe last thing I remember bfore passing out was someone walking past the romm yelling "Doctor! Doctor! You've got an unconcious patient!". The rest of the week was spent "hanging out for a taste". Not good, not good at all! The headache? Imagine someone slowly drilling into your right temple with a jeweller's finest drill bit.

The only true drug that i'm definitely addicted to nowadays, is caffine. I love my coffee! I've tried every drug except Ecstacy, and will NEVER go back! I've got too much to live for.

[DMNTD]

. heroine and Crystal Meth are both physically addictive whereas coke is more psycologically addictive.
Interesting as I didn't find Meth to be physically addictive at all...psycologically,yes.
I was considered a very heavy user but gave up without any stress at all...just slept it off basically.



Are there still bad days or have you got it licked?
Similar to above in the sense that I have yet for feel the desire for a taste.
I can be around the stuff and have no desires for it....been there,thrashed that proper.
Been nearly 4 years now and the best rush I get these days apart from being a twit on my bike are my fantastic Kids.
I also enjoy helping people that are ready to quit quit...great satisfaction indeed :yes:

[Colapop]

Before anyone gets in here with smart arsed comments or put-downs (I suppose some want their own fame)

- I will say that these two guys (and anyone else who's shared their experience) have shown more courage than I think I could ever muster. Nope, not looking to do a hippy hug or any bullshit like that - just wanted to say "Hey guys, fucking good on you!"

[KATWYN]

I was considered a very heavy user but gave up without any stress at all...just slept it off basically.


Gosh ones that do struggle with drug addiction would find this comment a tad
off putting to their progress. My guess would be at least 6 months of
pretty intense treatment and counselling needed for a heavy user and even then lapses and relapses abound.....and still they are doing well.

To just sleep it off....? You are one in a million DMNTD well done!...and good on you for helping others with
your own experiences.

[DMNTD]

- I will say that these two guys (and anyone else who's shared their experience) have shown more courage than I think I could ever muster. Nope, not looking to do a hippy hug or any bullshit like that - just wanted to say "Hey guys, fucking good on you!"
Cheers Col...genuinely appreciated mate.
Just wanted to show both sides to the story...not just the evilness one usually hears on the News or reads in the papers. I never had any desires to rob anyone whilst living that life back then btw y'all



Gosh ones that do struggle with drug addiction would find this comment a tad
off putting to their progress. My guess would be at least 6 months of
pretty intense treatment and counselling needed for a heavy user and even then lapses and relapses abound.....and still they are doing well.

To just sleep it off....? You are one in a million DMNTD well done!
Well I do hope that the ones that are struggling view it as inspirational more than anything. Sure it does help that I'm one fark of a stubborn bugger but hell...I just didn't find it addictive in the slightest.
The hardest part was giving up the "lifestyle" that comes with it but that wasn't so bad either.

[KATWYN]

[.I just didn't find it addictive in the slightest.
The hardest part was giving up the "lifestyle" that comes with it but that wasn't so bad either.
[/B]


Yea they say a huge part of coming off it is that an addict has to change their association completely (would be easier said than done no doubt)....as far as the addiction goes, I wonder if the fact it was "easier" for you to come off was due to that genetic predisposition that seems to play a key role in addictions....in your case an absense of that predisposition (i.e., no family history of addiction)??

Oh probably getting too heavy on the subject....:zzzz: