Alternative fuels:

[crack]

The good Oil!

Anyone know what the process is to brew Methanol? can it be made from brewing grass clippings? I was told that this was done during WW2 for motor cycles and cars, as fuel was scarce.

Have been looking on the net, but can not find such.

:whocares: :whocares: :rockon: :done: :scooter:

[thehollowmen]

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:Methanol_--_Ethanol's_Sister_Product

There is enough about it, but like ethanol you'll have to distill it a lot until you get it to fuel grade. (actually it is probably cheeper to buy it by drum for industrial purposes)

Be aware though, you're not paying tax on it. Most of our fuel price is tax, and some people apparently have been left up shit creek without a paddle by ACC if they haven't paid the appropriate taxes. (although most of these are friend of a friend stories) Methanol is more expensive than petrol without the tax, but less expensive than fuel with the tax.

Basically, you make silage. drain it, then distill what you've drained a few times. This will be costly and time consuming and probably will boost your power bill too.

Some nice still designs are found here -=> http://www.moonshine-still.com/

Hate to be a killjoy but running on methanol probably isn't economical, and also isn't very legal.

[Motu]

It would be a hell of a lot more fun to make ethanol.In the hippy section of my library I have a Mother Earth News book about making alcohol fuels - I figured it far too much work for small result 30 years ago,I don't think a rereading will change my mind.

[Steam]

http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html

That site will tell you everything and link to other sites breaking down the process into clear steps. It'll cost you about $500 to set up a small plant.
You know you only get about half the mileage? And that it may corrode your carb? Ethanol doesn't like aluminium.
Running your car or bike on ethanol is totally legal, you are still covered by ACC etc. There are apparently exceptions in the legislation created back when people were doing it themselves during the depression and WW2.

[WRT]

It would be a hell of a lot more fun to make ethanol.In the hippy section of my library I have a Mother Earth News book about making alcohol fuels - I figured it far too much work for small result 30 years ago,I don't think a rereading will change my mind.

With the price of fuel these days, there could be more money in it than mechanicing.

Of course, there's probably a greater chance of blowing yourself up as well.

[Hitcher]

Most of the gizmos that were invented by an enterprising few during WWII's petrol restrictions were gasifiers that produced wood gas (mostly methane). There was a small frisson of interest in these after the oil shocks of the 1970s, largely amongst Coromandel hippies.

Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas

[Pwalo]

The problem with most of alternative fuel sources is that petroleum is still the most efficient way of storing energy for a motor vehicle (as far as I'm aware).

The experiments in WW2 were only contemplated because of necessity, not because of any perceived advantages in the alternatives.

Still it'd be cool to be able to knock off a bit of fuel for the bike in the shed. Make up a batch on Sundays for the week's commuting. A special batch up for the odd track day. Hmmmmm.

[toymachine]

Oil from coal was going strong in WW2 Germany, might be a tad difficult from home, though.

[MikeyG]

Methanol/ethanol are very corrosive to magnesium alloys. If you do use them check what your tank is made of and don't spill any on your frame.

Carb re-jet will also be required, you can probably run on methanol or petrol but not have a bike that runs well on both

[Bartman10]

Ethanol is a lot safer.

Methanol seriously attacks the optic nerve (i.e. makes you go blind after a while) and central nervous system. Fire fighting can also be a problem, because the flames are very hard to see.

If you're going to make DIY fuel, it's safer trying to brew ethanol unless you have a good containment and handling facility.

The industrial methanol process involves heating up natural gas and reacting it with water over a zeolite catalyst at 800-900 degrees C.

I'm pretty sure that it's illegal to run methanol in your bike but who's gonna know!

[Kwaka14]

We run methanol in the TQ and use a hell of a lot of it as far as economy is concerned, 750cc Suzuki otor goes through a 20 litre drum per meet which is about 20kms of distance, admittedly thats at 12-13000 rpm, so you could expect a gsx 750 to get somewhere aroun 40kms to a tank at normal speeds... makes it too damn expensive to run an engine on it normally and the wear on things is terrible, a set of flat slide carbs pretty well stuffed in a couple of seasons, it's not a good fuel for everyday, but great for the track once you've worked out the fuelling......

[crack]

Okay great input: Thanks.

My angle on this, is from the point that I have read several reports on the decline of fossil fuels.

It is fact that there have not been too many significant new oil fields discovered.

I read in the Taranaki Daily news, an article by Mr Moore.
I have tried to attach the editorial, I scanned it, but it will not attach.

With the now accepted fact that GREEN HOUSE gases are a cause of concern, I am concerned that with NZ's stance on the Kyoto protocol, and the governments latest statements, I think that in future we could be forced off the roads with legislation being introduced against motorcycles, and families with more than one vehicle.

Then again maybe I have too vivid an imagination?

:love: :love: :whocares: :whocares: :rockon: :done:

[marty]

so maybe you should sell your 2 motorbikes and buy a pushbike instead

[marty]

i'd be more worried about this: http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/wmd/US_could_bomb_Iran_nuclear_sites_in_200717009072.p hp

[crack]

Push bikes are for those that wish to live dangerously.:
:whocares: :whocares: whocares:

[crack]

Yeah I along with millions of others, am worried about the likes of the report you attached MARTY, but it only says to me that the day's of significant oil finds is dwindling, these area like Iran, Iraq, Algeria,the Middle East, have the last huge shallow fields of sweet OIL:

Oil drives the worlds economies, the day is not too far, where I am afraid that the likes of you with your Pitts, the rest of us with our bikes, boats, etc etc, are going to have to give way to the more important economic sectors that need the OIL to continue, I have read a report ( can't remember by who) that reckoned by 2020, alot of the major airlines would be grounded.

Hence in the above senario, I would like to brew my own fuel, and enjoy riding my bike.

So the debate maybe we should be having Marty is: This about Nuclear, or is the Nuclear an issue to give cause to take the OIL.
:love: :love: :whocares: :rockon: :done:

[Steam]

My angle on this, is from the point that I have read several reports on the decline of fossil fuels.

It is fact that there have not been too many significant new oil fields discovered.

I read in the Taranaki Daily news, an article by Mr Moore.
I have tried to attach the editorial, I scanned it, but it will not attach.

With the now accepted fact that GREEN HOUSE gases are a cause of concern, I am concerned that with NZ's stance on the Kyoto protocol, and the governments latest statements, I think that in future we could be forced off the roads with legislation being introduced against motorcycles, and families with more than one vehicle.

Then again maybe I have too vivid an imagination?


Have you just discovered this? Your sincerity and earnestness is amusing, but you are totally correct.
Man, this industrialised, first-world world of ours is ENDING. In 50 years everyone is going to be back in the 3rd world.
Not dumb and without electricity, but just miserable and poor.
Get your kicks while you still can.

[crack]

Have you just discovered this? Your sincerity and earnestness is amusing:

Steam: Only to happy to lighten your load and give you a smile, the fact that I may have added a few days to your life,(due to making you smile) then surely deserves a thankyou?

No Mate I have not just discovered this, the fact is I have worked in most of these countries and a few others, associated within the OIL & GAS industry.

But if I was to say that of recent time, (last 6 months there abouts), I have become more concerned.

It is becoming increasingly more difficult to figure out who the BAD GUY is.
So much propagand'a and Bull shit bandied about.

It is my desire to be a "COMPO" ( as in last of summer wine) and still ride my bike at 85/90, and still be chasing "a" nurse GLADIS.

Hope I have given you another few days.

OPPPPS! Thats another thank you Crack!

What the world needs is::love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :rockon: :scooter:

[Steam]

surely deserves a thankyou?


Yep, you are right, thankyou. I've often thought of making a glorious still, and then ethanol for the bike, and may well do in future.
My post sounded patronising, sorry, I didn't mean it that way.
Good luck with the potential project!

[Pixie]

Ethanol is a lot safer.

Methanol seriously attacks the optic nerve (i.e. makes you go blind after a while) and central nervous system. Fire fighting can also be a problem, because the flames are very hard to see.

If you're going to make DIY fuel, it's safer trying to brew ethanol unless you have a good containment and handling facility.

The industrial methanol process involves heating up natural gas and reacting it with water over a zeolite catalyst at 800-900 degrees C.

I'm pretty sure that it's illegal to run methanol in your bike but who's gonna know!

Actually it is methanol's metabolite,formaldehide that does the damage.
So if you don't drink it you'll be fine