My new bike.

[Motu]

I can't buy the bike I want - so I'll just have to make my own.These two major components of my project were secured verbaly within a couple of days of each other,a good omen in my book.I now have them in my posession,although no money has changed hands yet,and may possibly never happen....this is what we do in my circle of friends....there could be something of mine that meets their requirements.This may take years,may never get finished...but this is what I enjoy,the journey more fullfilling than the destination.

So - what am I going to make,and what are these parts? To those who know,pinpoint the year of each....the clues are there.To those who have already seen the parts,patience.

[TLDV8]

An XS650 Flat tracker with lights. :Punk:

TT500 frame ?

[Joni]

The engine is a XS/TX650... bugger knows what the frame is tho...

Mmm, bugger TLD and his lightening fast fingers :bleh:

[degrom]

Am I seeing a 750 kit in your future?

[Paul in NZ]

Well the engine is a bit of a no brainer - but the frame - you cunning sod...

That has to be a very modifed 1971 Triumph (or BSA) 650 frame. Looks shortened to suit a - well a Yamaha engine...

Now - what to do? I'd say a big 'Adventurer' or the TR7 off roader made for the french market sort of thing. Good idea - fantastic project start...

Maybe - an Egli Yamaha

Paul N

[Joni]

TT500 frame ?Question: Doesn't a TT500 have a full cradle frame?... :spudwhat:

The position of the oil tank in the frame doesn't match up where Yamaha had theirs...

[TLDV8]

The engine is a XS/TX650... bugger knows what the frame is tho...

Mmm, bugger TLD and his lightening fast fingers :bleh:

If i was a Admin i would have put your post above mine :shifty: :laugh:

*
Should i dig out an old book and scan Kenny R getting sideways on an XS Tracker ?


Question: Doesn't a TT500 have a full cradle frame?... :spudwhat:

The position of the oil tank in the frame doesn't match up where Yamaha had theirs...

It was a wild guess on the frame..Oil filler is at the wrong end as you say (did a google after posting)

[Paul in NZ]

Question: Doesn't a TT500 have a full cradle frame?... :spudwhat:

The position of the oil tank in the frame doesn't match up where Yamaha had theirs...

The frame IS the oil tank... The pilion peg mounts are pure OIF triumph as is the tank mount.

[sAsLEX]

Should i dig out an old book and scan Kenny R getting sideways on an XS Tracker ?


y e s

[Motu]

That has to be a very modifed 1971 Triumph (or BSA) 650 frame. Looks shortened to suit a - well a Yamaha engine...


Bingo - a 1971 Triumph frame,the very first high seat model.The cradle has been cut out and the rear tubes bent down and lugged to fit the XS650 lower engine mount.The down tubes have been pulled back slightly and lugged for the front engine mount.There is a bracket welded to the rear downtube for the rear engine mount.The rear seat rails have been kicked up at the rear,they are normally nearly flat,and also they have been narrowed,angling from the top shock mounts to the main tube.The stock seat rails are parallel then angle sharply in to the main tube.The seat height was 34.5'',and being so wide it was hard to touch the ground,'72 frames had a 31'' seat height.So quite a bit of work done.

I have known about the frame for a long time,it's been hanging from the roof of various premises my friend has had over the years.I was always tempted to get it,but I would of had to destroy my XS1 to make the bike,and I didn't want to wreck a near complete rare bike.Just too much work to make a bike out of,being half British and half Japanese.By some strange bond of blood,my brother half a world away in Canada and I both wanted another project,and both went back to the XS650 as the best option.He made a streettracker a few years ago,and I want to make one too - and this will be the best streettracker I could possibly make....a great handling Triumph frame and the super strong XS650 motor.

The engine is a 1982,one of the last....seized piston,a top end rebuild is ok by me.This is the electronic ignition model,very rare and desirable...but I miss out on the electrics bugger it.That's why the owner got the wreck - he has a 1974 XS650 he imported from the US,and he wants to put the complete '82 electrics including loom and igntion into his '74.I can have the engine and frame only.I have the rest of the engine bits plus another cyl head.I'll use my Blue Magnum carbs I put together for my XS1 on it.

I could be compromised on forks,the Triumph has a small 19mm stem....I'll get some head bearings and yokes,see what I can fit.Oh man,a shit load of work.But....swap meets,wreckers,TradeMe - I'll see something and think,hmmmm,that should be good for my streettracker.Use my lost skills now Consumer Rights has taken away my ability to put them to use.

The Triumph oil in frame was not really liked when it first came out,the seat height was soon sorted,but most felt it didn't handle as good as the old frame.I thought they were pretty damn tight and solid,more like a Norton,but not light and flicky like a '69.

Check out this photo of a Trackmaster frame made to fit a Triumph engine - Trackmaster built flattracker frames.The oil in frame Triumph is practically a production version of the Trackmaster.

[justsomeguy]

I'm sure you'll make something terrific out of it. It's great to see something custom made.

By the way - Erik is on his holidays at the moment and you know how much he likes working on bikes if you need an extra pair of hands.


Don't really know why you need a "high seat bike" though..:shutup: :shutup: p/t

[Motu]

Don't really know why you need a "high seat bike" though..:shutup: :shutup: p/t


Yeah,I was hoping to make a nice low bike - but the seat tubes have been narrowed,that means it'll be easier to touch the ground.I was going to get an Omar seat,he says they will fit a Triumph,but I may have to make my own.

[justsomeguy]

Look what I found.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1978-Customized-Yamaha-Street-Tracker-XS650-Special_W0QQitemZ150060768165QQihZ005QQcategoryZ80 650QQcmdZViewItem

[Ghost Lemur]

Great work (to come) Motu.

I know how long you've had a flat tracker on your mind, particularly when Bobcat was building his.

Looking forward to watching as the project moves forward. If possible post some detailed writeups with pics on various stages, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to learn from you wealth of knowledge.

With you brother working on one too, I'm sure he'll be able to help source hard to find parts in North America.

[xwhatsit]

Wow... major coolness. When I was a wee guy I used to tag along with my Dad to his mates place, where they built from the ground up a series of offroad vehicles, which they raced successfully (the current iteration of it is a Toyota Hilux frame with fibreglass panels, with a mid-mounted supercharged Lexus V8, Dad's not around to race or work on it anymore though). I was bored at the time being a little kid but now I've got a bike and am getting some oil under my fingernails, I've been imagining what it would be like to build a bike from scratch... design my own frame, put an engine in it... But there's some people around on KB that are actually smart enough and have enough experience to actually bring those fantasies into reality. Very cool. Hope to see another thread continuing on from this in the future.

Good luck with it!

[Paul in NZ]

Check out this photo of a Trackmaster frame made to fit a Triumph engine - Trackmaster built flattracker frames.The oil in frame Triumph is practically a production version of the Trackmaster.

When I visited Big D Cycles in the USA I was shown a couple of flat track bikes (as well as a bunch of very very cool shit like the original Dyno used to build the engine in the world record streamliner and a lot of original busted bits for the same bike)...

One of them was one of the very last 3 frames they built - I can't remember exactly but they were quite different - single downtube or something but rare as rocking horse shit. The owner wanted a no expense spare - spend what ever you like bike built from it. The result was amazing - I can't remember if I have a photo some place of that bike as there was so much in that place to see but I've wanted something like that ever since.

Motu - you would have thought you died and gone to heaven in their workshop / storage facility. They were seriously competing still in sportsman 750 road racing and classic racing tridents etc. There were 3 1969 / 70 'beauty kit' tridents in totally original paint. Bonnies, Trophies, flat track bikes for go and show - oh heck - stuff for miles... These guys built the fastest triumphs in the world and meeting Jack Wilson was better than meeting the Pope IMHO...

[Motu]

Yeah,I can imagine you'd never get me out of there! Like my brother when he rung up Shell Thuett to get his 700cc pistons and camshaft - the last thing he expected was to talk to the man himself,the same guy who made all Kenny Roberts frames and engines....if there is a God of XS650's,he just talked to him on the red phone.

I tend to pick up other peoples unfinished projects...now I'm wondering if that's what I have here.I can't fit the engine into the frame with the top end on,common enough - but on an XS650 the complete top end is held on by long studs from head to crankcase,there is no way you can build the top end in the frame.The frame is unpainted around the front downtube lugs...and I'm wondering if this bike was ever a runner? It seems a lot of work to go to and have it a failure,but everything lines up...it must be a Chinese puzzle,like fitting a cyl head onto a Featherbed Norton twin.This frame was built in the '80's,and another friend says he remebers it as a street bike.I must ask the guy I got the frame off,he still knows the original builder.This is just after a 30 second fit up on the floor...the frame is light,but an XS650 engine is not the sort of thing you hold in one hand and thread through the frame.I remember with the XLV750 you lay the motor on it's side on a box,and with a lower frame rail removed you twist and turn the frame over the engine into place...maybe the same thing here.

[vifferman]

I didn't read the posts, just looked at the pix (can't read, y'know...)
But it looks like some old dinosaur skeleton, possibly from the late Mesozoic, and what appears to be a fossilised late 19th-Century steem engine.

[Motu]

And they are still there,ready to be used again and again - how many recycles will your shit heap get....doubt it will even get through it's first cycle.

[surfer]

Very cool project. The xs650 is a great engine and there are lots of parts that are reasonably still accessible for it. I suspect you already know of mikesxs web site (when the kiwi dollar was stronger the parts were cheaper from here than anywhere else I could find) and Andrew over at Papakura way who has a shed load of spare parts from this and similar models.

Good luck and enjoy.

[Motu]

Well I owned my XS1 for 15 years,so they are no mystery for me,but will need to get back into the scene after I sold it a couple of years ago.A good mate of mine has heaps of them and lots of parts,but like Andrew he likes to keep the best bits.

[Ixion]

Yeah, that's how you fit a waterbus engine - lay the frame on its side over the top of the engine, then stand everything up.

Can you pull the studs from the crankcases, fit the bottom end, assemble the top end loose and then thread the studs back in ?

Maybe the frame was welded up with the motor installed?

But, if it was, someone got it out. So if it came out , it must go back in (yeah, where have I heard *that* before)

[Paul in NZ]

Looks like you need to tip the engine forwards and slide it in from the side?

Looks like it may need some sort of head steady as well?? Was the yam engine ever a stressed part of the chassis??

The Triumph OIF will often snap behind the rear shock mounts under duress but the welded rear loop strengthens that - From memory there was a steel mudguard bracket / brace across there as well which you might need if you run and alloy or plastic guard.

Swingarms are a little weedy but can be braced.

Other stress point is the bottom plate of the oil bearing backbone but from memory that was to do with the main stand or something?? Certainly bracing the swing arm pivot can't hurt.

Seriously cool project !!!

Paul N

[Motu]

The oif Triumphs didn't have head steadies,but all XS650's do.Seeing as it's now a stressed member I will possibly fit one,would be a good idea I think.I reckon it will fit,I did some more twisting and got it pretty close,there will be some scratched paint and finger nails though.I'm finding it hard not to snap up all the Triumph bits on TradeMe,but I have to figure out what forks and wheels etc.It's got to have a slimline tank though,and several are on offer....I want one!

Check out this Triumph flattracker,a little overdone I think.I don't know what the frame is but it looks pretty spindly,and too much rake.Period MT53 Pirelli's.

[98tls]

Nice Motu......very nice.........i have a good mate who is muckin about with an old trumpy motor...350........into a not as old rd400 frame.....believe it or not its actually coming together ok.........wheels off an old xv750 yamaha......be very nice when finished...........

[Motu]

I had a ride on a 1976 750 Bonnie 5 speed today,interesting because it's close to what I will end up with.

Wow! Why don't they make bikes like this anymore...the whole bike is me,past,present and future.I learnt to ride on bikes like this.The 750 loses the cammyness of the 650,so is a grunter....and with the 5 speed it feels very much like an XS650.Coming hard out of a 2nd gear corner on a big vertical twin has to be one of the best thrills I've ever got out of bikes,bliss.It wasn't set up for me of course,but it was pretty good,and the point of bikes like this is you adapt.Light and flickable like a Triumph should be,and the ''come on,give me heaps!'' feel of the Triumph twin,my only complaint was I like to get forward in corners and scoot up as far as I can...with my balls over the oil cap the breadbox tank was digging into my thighs,mine will have to have a slimline.No chicken stips left on the Pirelli's...perhaps when the owner gets home and looks at his tyres he'll think he did well in the corners going home.

So that gives me some direction,I know I want this frame to turn into a bike....a good frame and a good motor - they don't have to come from the same ethnic group to make a good marrige.

I had another go at fitting the engine and frame together,phew,it going to be tight alright.I've had to remove the exhaust flange studs and now it's hitting on the starter drive cover....maybe it was made to take an XS1,which have no starter.Still just an idea in my mind with some parts to hold at this stage.

[Motu]

I went to the Hamilton swap Meet today - with everything of mine in a lock up it was just a fishing trip with no bait,waiting for something to fall in my lap.I picked up a T140 seamless slimline tank,I will need a Triumph tank because of the 3in backbone frame tube,and a slimline because of the narrowed seat rails.

But most importantly,I met the guy who built the frame and cleared up a few questions.As I suspected,it was built for an XS1 engine,which is why the '82 engine is not fitting.I did a trial fit with some bare cases and it hits on the starter mount,but that can be ground off.Also as I expected,this frame was never a runner - some of my friends say they had seen the bike running,but this is the second one he built and never finished,so that explains that.His first XS650 in a Triumph frame had the engine sitting further forward and higher,and this caused chain problems....this frame the motor sits lower and further back to line the gearbox sprocket up better.He did this over 30 years ago and says he'd be really embarrassed to see it now,he thought it was pretty rough.The guy he sold it to for some reason removed the engine steady bracket with a cold chisel,so that explains the damage in that area.

So it's still a go plan in my brain anyway....

[Ixion]

So why aren't you WORKING on it, instead of sitting at a computer ? Huh ? Huh ?

An when y' gonna get that Stornello going, you'll NEED a nice little communter now.

And don't gimme that crap about not having a shed. You gotta lounge havn't ya?