Tales from the Emporium [Archive]

NordieBoy

30th November 2006, 08:26

2001 with 7000Km on the clock.

Givi screen.
ScottOiler Touring kit.
20L IMS tank (460km to reserve apparantly).
Corbin Seat (that's going to get an extra couple of cm of padding soon).
Ventura pack-rack and pack (dumping these and fitting my 45L Givi topbox).
Heated grips (ripping them off as soon as possible - too plasticy and fat - anyone interested?)
My spare mirrors off the other Nordie (no vibration and adjustable reach).

Apart from that, everything is stock inc the tyres.

Am thinking of one of THESE (http://www.electrosport.com/electrosport_speedo_2700.html) though.
A 14t front sprocket as well as maybe the SuperTrapp off the Nordie.

The Nordie is 13 years old and isn't designed for 5 hours a week of riding.
It's starting to need looking at and the DR seems to be the ideal replacement.

Power is down compared to the Nordie but with the extra 100cc the torque is spread far wider.
The Nordie is a grin factory, the power is good and then at 6500rpm is GREAT :D but it's my work bike not just a fun bike so has to go :(
Front brakes are adequete but I'm comparing them to a bike that weighs the same and has twin 4-pot 280mm discs on the front to the DR's single 2-pot 290mm.

Anyone replaced the front brake lever with an adjustable one or one that's just a bit further away from the bars? I'm crushing my knuckles 2-finger braking.

Handles nicely and the stock tyres are fine for my riding (lack of) style and speeds.

The Nordie was a road bike that could be taken off road if you had to.
The DR is a motorbike - do what you want, it'll cope.

My brother is a mechanic at the local Suzuki dealers so that helps :D

So far, I'm happy with it esp. at the price I paid.

Trudes

30th November 2006, 08:43

That looks like great fun. Do keep us road dwellers informed of your adventures.

Crisis management

30th November 2006, 08:55

The DR looks great, I'm envious already! You might want to consider a bash plate for it, the cases seem a bit fragile and don't take a lot to damage or hole.

far queue

30th November 2006, 10:20

2001 with 7000Km on the clock.

20L IMS tank (460km to reserve apparantly).

The Nordie was a road bike that could be taken off road if you had to.
The DR is a motorbike - do what you want, it'll cope.

So far, I'm happy with it esp. at the price I paid.

It looks real good.

RE the range, I get 16km/l and others seem to be getting between 16-20km/l, so I would expect your range to be 320-400km.

I like your description of a DR, I've found mine will do whatever I chuck at it.

So how much was it? Feel free to tell me to bugger off if you want :)

I'm curious to know where it came from? I didn't think black ones were sold here, although they were in Europe and Canada. Apparently the '07 model here will be available in black.

clint640

30th November 2006, 12:05

Maaate! What a sweet rig, It's not often something that tidy & well set up comes along, let alone at a good price.

Cheers
Clint

placidfemme

30th November 2006, 12:12

Hey... Welcome to KB... great bike you have there!

SDU

30th November 2006, 12:27

Nice new toy! Great choice. Lucky to pick up a real tidy one with a nice IMS tank.

I like your description of a DR, I've found mine will do whatever I chuck at it.
You mean what you have Chucked it at.:dodge:

far queue

30th November 2006, 13:40

You mean what you have Chucked it at.:dodge:
:bleh: :bleh:

sels1

30th November 2006, 13:56

Hello, my name is NordieBoy and I've just bought a DR650.

Huh....newbie since 2004?
But congrats on the new bike - good choice, wouldnt mind one myself

Wolf

30th November 2006, 14:57

Sweet bike, Nordieboy!

I'm sure you'll have shit-loads of fun.

NordieBoy

30th November 2006, 17:37

It looks real good.

RE the range, I get 16km/l and others seem to be getting between 16-20km/l, so I would expect your range to be 320-400km.

I like your description of a DR, I've found mine will do whatever I chuck at it.

So how much was it? Feel free to tell me to bugger off if you want :)

I'm curious to know where it came from? I didn't think black ones were sold here, although they were in Europe and Canada. Apparently the '07 model here will be available in black.

Went onto reserve today at 320km/L with several people (ahem) testing it :innocent: in varying conditions - Motorway, twisties, 2-up twisties, part of the Mangatapu track, motorcross track around the orchard, freshly gravelled roads - You know, the usual.
Come to think of it, the Nordie has also been through all of that as well :D
$6500 private sale.
I think it was bought in Nelson.

NordieBoy

30th November 2006, 17:46

Huh....newbie since 2004?
But congrats on the new bike - good choice, wouldnt mind one myself

Newbie since monday.
This is my first adventure style bike :yes:

NordieBoy

30th November 2006, 17:48

The DR looks great, I'm envious already! You might want to consider a bash plate for it, the cases seem a bit fragile and don't take a lot to damage or hole.

90% of my riding will be on the road.
It's going to be the daily transport.
I'm even thinking Pirelli Scorpion S/T's

ducatijim

30th November 2006, 18:21

Hi Nordie, welcome and a good choice!Consider the Michelin Anakee if 90% road, they will still take you along that gravel road while stick'n like the proverbial to the tarmac. The 14t front sprocket is a must; std gearing is way too high, who need 175km on a 'trailie'? This will give a more even power spread,ie, less 'breathlessness' in top at 100km/hr.
I've done over 7000km on mine in the last year, just home from my first organised adventure ride last weekend, went v well. Mine is further geared down on its knobbie rear wheel set, with a 46t rear along with the 14t front;real smooth power spread;it just never runs out and will pull down low for the knarly stuff! High ali bars and bark-bustas round off the package( oh yes...a bash plate is wise!)
You enjoy that ride, whatever you do the DR650 will deliver a smile.

warewolf

1st December 2006, 07:47

Noice bike.

Gimme a PM if you want to go for a ride sometime.:scooter:

clint640

4th December 2006, 12:59

$6500 private sale.

That's not a sale, that's theft!:gob:

For tyres, I'd try an MT90 AT rear & MT70 front. You should be able to drag the pegs with that combo, they'll last well, do the bizzo on gravel & they're cheap.

Cheers
Clint

NordieBoy

8th December 2006, 08:34

Picked up a 14t front sprocket yesterday to gear the sucker down a bit and went to put it on and...

Ummm...

It's already got a 14t :o

Took it through the Mangatapu Track yesterday and it needs gearing down (a bit) more for that sort of thing :rolleyes:

I'm thinking 3 teeth higher on the rear and a 15t front for normal use and the 14t front for trail/adv stuff.

NordieBoy

9th December 2006, 14:16

I've ordered a speedo with rev-counter from the UK but in the meantime I've removed the original speedo and mounted an eTrex Legend in it's place.
Also trimmed 2cm off the top of the screen that'll hopefully leave my helmet in clear air.

tipper

12th January 2007, 09:58

Hey nordie, how does the Scottoiler go on the DR, someone told me they don't work so well on big singles - something about vacuum pulsing??
Thinking of putting one on the XT600

NordieBoy

12th January 2007, 17:33

Worked fine on my last 3.
Self installed on the 2 Nordies and already on the DR.

NordieBoy

14th January 2007, 21:28

Drilled the carb slide and stopped the TPS from activating and killing my wheelies :scooter:

Hopefully it'll be on the dyno on Friday to get the jetting sorted properly.

RedKLR650

15th January 2007, 14:16

2001 with 7000Km on the clock.

The DR is a motorbike - do what you want, it'll cope.

Well there Nordieboy, if you're ever down South Canterbury way on the DR and looking for a riding buddy, I'm on 0274 342 372 and can show you some AWESOME shingle roads and passes etc.

Cheers, Stu :scooter:

NordieBoy

18th January 2007, 15:58

Well, today was Dyno Day!

The bike is running standard except for the SuperTrapp can and airbox snorkle removed.

35.68hp @ 6000rpm

1mm spacer under needle - 36.44hp @ 6000rpm

We tried different jets etc but no good.

Was running waaayyy too lean and now air/fuel ratio is spot on.

Torque curve is much fatter, the torque at 4000rpm is now there at 3000 and extends for an additional 500rpm to the top end.

I'll get some screen caps from the dyno.

F5 Dave

18th January 2007, 16:50

Can't remember how to copy screen to paste into another format (alt print screen doesn't pick it up as anything but txt).

Thought this was pretty low but old curve saved on dynojet records is peak of 32hp so this is doing well. Must be understressed as a DRZ400 with pipe will do 40.

NordieBoy

18th January 2007, 18:33

Very understressed.

My Nordie was 47hp and 558cc

But the DR has a nice fat torque curve right from 3000rpm :Punk:

nallac

19th January 2007, 14:32

what jetting did you end up with?

I have a 04 i have cut the top air box and re jetted with a dyno jet 160 main
and needle.still running stock exhaust.
made a big diference in power and a huge hit to economy .
probably not help by 14 tooth front sprocket an copious amounts of right hand. :yes:

NordieBoy

19th January 2007, 17:35

Completely standard jetting.
Just 1mm higher on the needle.

We tried a 170 jet but... nope :D

My exhaust dosn't flow much more than stock though.

NordieBoy

20th January 2007, 18:05

My AceWell ACE-3100 speedo arrived today :shit:

Only took 2 months.

I must say, it looks better than the original and has a rev counter too.
Also normal trip meters, max revs, max speed, avg speed, odo, total running time (engine hour meter), wired to 12v for backlight.
Mounted onto the existing speedo bracket and ran the cable inside the fork boot.
I've had to tie the clutch cable out of the way a bit though as it wants to go through the middle of the speedo :(

I have shares in a zip-tie company :D

The furry hanging from the brake line is a squeaky Kiwi, just have to make him a helmet from a ping pong ball and a pair of goggles now.

clint640

22nd January 2007, 07:00

Lookin' good! :niceone: What'd the speedo cost ya?

That must be the most blinged out DR in the country!

Cheers
Clint

NordieBoy

22nd January 2007, 09:40

Lookin' good! :niceone: What'd the speedo cost ya?

That must be the most blinged out DR in the country!

Cheers
Clint

$197.57 from Acewell Meters (http://www.acewell-meter.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?osCsid=094de918c1405deb3c5c771994 e5ed73&currency=UKP&cPath=47&products_id=118&osCsid=094de918c1405deb3c5c771994e5ed73) in the UK.

So far all the mods have cost me $197.57 total.

The bike shop owes me a few more dyno runs so I'll be looking at the dynojet kit, airbox lid mod and high-flow air filter with keen interest :D

nallac

22nd January 2007, 15:50

Also add grind header weld to that list .

I gound mine yesterday.it has given the bike a bit more grunt
also seems to idle better/smoother.

You'll be amazed at how big/badly its welded.
another good free mod.

NordieBoy

22nd January 2007, 17:40

I didn't want to open the header up unless there was a competent welder around if I went too far :D

It is nice and lumpy, very much a "Gordon's Mods - XR400" type thing.

nallac

23rd January 2007, 06:59

Yeah i thought about that too.

Its welded around the out side as well so i just ground it.(probably a bit more than i should of :yes: )
if it breaks i'll weld it up again

NordieBoy

27th January 2007, 23:48

Hmmm...
Fuel consumption.

14t front sprocket, IMS 18.5L tank.
3rd gear in 50k zones (3500rpm) 270km to reserve.
4th gear in 50k zones (2600rpm) 324km to reserve - Normal gears/revs everywhere else.

I spend quite a bit of time in 50k zones and after the dynoing it's got more torque down low so tried a gear higher.
Seems to work.

Now putting a tank of 96 through it under the same conditions.

NordieBoy

29th January 2007, 21:01

Today's idea was over the Maungatapu to Pelorus and back through the Maungatapu again...

Didn't start with a good omen as the speedo wasn't registering any speedy stuff.
After replaced a wayward speedo pickup magnet I headed off about 4:30pm.
Nice conditions and met a couple of 4WD's coming through toward Nelson.
40min in and heading down the other side it started raining...
Quickly (well very slowly actually) turned around and headed back.
Pissed down all the way back.
Clay, rock, rain, very worn stock tyres...

Hmmm...
Tyres for 70% road 30% dirt?

Just wish I could fit my 17" TKC80 off the Nordie on the DR.
I love that tyre.

NordieBoy

13th February 2007, 20:52

carver

13th February 2007, 21:07

Fri - Maungatapu.
Sat - Picton.
Sun - Whaiwhero - Dovedale Hill.
Mon - Maungatapu - Havlock.

I like the Mitas E07's.
Road holding is excellent on the seal and plenty of grip on the dirt.
30psi rear and 25psi front on seal is sweet.

Put the stock pipe back on for the last 2 rides and had problems pulling from 100kph.
Put the SuperTrapp back on today and it pulls from 100 through 120 and on like it is on steroids compared.
Where it was 100, 101, 102, 103, 104 it's now 100, 105, 110, 115, 120.

Quiet was nice but lack of go wasn't.

hey, i did welly to hamilton in the weekend, on a unbalanced rear...so unbalanced that you could see it bouncing!
mine's de baffled, with a stock airbox, running a 150 jet on main (i think)
mine has wicked torque, im shifting into 5th at 100+ kph....and 4th at 75kph....read what the manual says? 5th at 50kph:sick:

nallac

14th February 2007, 21:08

Jeessus shift in to 5th at 50k's the bloody thing will stall.
5ths only good for 100ks plus.better going into it about 125ks.
speed limit what speed limit?

NordieBoy

15th February 2007, 06:38

4th for 50kph zones and 5th for 70kph.

cooneyr

15th February 2007, 10:01

3rd at 50kph. 4th at about 60kph round town. Into 3rd at about 60, 4th at about 75/80 and 5th once to 100 when accelerating on open road.

Cheers R

NordieBoy

15th February 2007, 14:44

If you're cruising in a 50 zone 4th is only pulling about 2600 rpm compared to 3500 in 3rd.
Similar story for 70 zones.

Have to drop down a gear to accelerate but 50km per tank further is nice.
Lot's of 50 zones around here.

cooneyr

15th February 2007, 15:38

I'm on stock 15/41 gearing though. You dont have stock though do you? Mine labours a bit in 4th at 50 kph.

Cheers R

NordieBoy

15th February 2007, 17:22

Yep, 14t front.

Pulling about 4500rpm at 100kph.

cooneyr

15th February 2007, 21:06

Your just skiteing cause you have one of those fancy smancy rev counter, speedo, clock and whatever else thingamys. :yawn:

Can I have one please please can I?

LOL
Cheers R

NordieBoy

16th February 2007, 08:11

Your just skiteing cause you have one of those fancy smancy rev counter, speedo, clock and whatever else thingamys. :yawn:

Why yes, yes I have :D

Just started work on the new seating arrangements.
5cm higher and further back.
I had ants about cutting up the Corbin but now I've done it I feel much better.
It's got a heavy fiberglass pan and the cover is rivetted on so I had to drill out about 30 rivets.

What colour/s should I do the new seat in?
I had to battle to not get flames last time.
Damn Hot Rod upholstereres.

cooneyr

16th February 2007, 08:44

You cut up a corbin!!!!!!!! :gob: They actually look surprisingly thin.

Would suggest that a purple and yellow seat like mine is not the way to go. Whats wrong with black? (with a flame along each side hehehe)

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53657&d=1171405248

Cheers R

NordieBoy

16th February 2007, 09:28

Well it's the only seat I've got.

Surprisingly thin and surprisingly hard.
Now at least there's a bit of give there.

I think I'll to a 2-tone black with maybe some flames just stiched in black thread.
The centre strip/top will probably be some textured black gripper material and the sides normal.

Wolf

16th February 2007, 10:17

Nice work, Nordieboy. I've been toying with the idea of taking apart the XT's seat and affixing a bit more foam towards the rear of the pan.

If my dad were still alive, I'd get him to reshape and cover the seat but now I have to hire an upholsterer and none I've located so far will actually reshape/add the foam - they'll happily cover it with fabric if I get it shaped elsewhere but they won't custom shape the foam themselves.

Farked if I'm paying $500 for a custom seat with some bugger's name on it when I know for a fact it's a simple task to shape the foam and the covering of the foam can be done by a competent upholsterer in a couple of hours, maximum.

NordieBoy

16th February 2007, 19:16

Do it yourself :D

I've been fine tuning it a bit more today.
Sculpted a bit out of the middle of the seat to level it up a bit and went for a ride up to the Whangamoa Saddle and back.

:Punk: :love: You don't just sit on the bike now.
Your arse is coddled by a custom DR NordieCorbin armchair.

The bugger is you can keep tweaking till the cows come home and then all of a sudden you've gone too far and it's out with the foam off-cuts and the ADOS to build it back up again.

I do the rough shaping with a bread knife and the fine-tuning this time is with a rotary wire brush on the end of the compressor.
Only issue with this method is lots of foam dust and if you make a slight mistake there is a great gouge to fill :D

NordieBoy

16th February 2007, 19:18

Nice work, Nordieboy. I've been toying with the idea of taking apart the XT's seat and affixing a bit more foam towards the rear of the pan.

Try and get hold of a munted seat that's got a good pan and build it yourself.
Then you don't stuff the original.
That's how I did my XR and Nordie ones.

Wolf

16th February 2007, 21:36

Try and get hold of a munted seat that's got a good pan and build it yourself.
Then you don't stuff the original.
Cheers. Was planning to do that - I've got no desire to be bikeless for the entire time I'm fucking about with foam and ADOS and while I'm waiting for the upholsterer to cover it.

I've watched dad work, but I'm under no illusions that I'll get it right first off, so I'm likely to be shagging about with the shaping for a while.

Dad, OTOH, would have had the calipers on my arse-cheeks and had a custom-sculpted seat shaped up in short order...

NordieBoy

17th February 2007, 08:16

My problem is that I've never seen anyone do the shaping etc.
It's just total guesswork on my part.

As this gif of my XR seat will show...

PLUG

17th February 2007, 09:58

My problem is that I've never seen anyone do the shaping etc.
It's just total guesswork on my part.

As this gif of my XR seat will show...

You're a bloody craftsman

Wolf

17th February 2007, 13:48

My problem is that I've never seen anyone do the shaping etc.
It's just total guesswork on my part.

As this gif of my XR seat will show...
Excellent guess! :D

NordieBoy

17th February 2007, 17:29

The secret is to stick way more foam on than you need and then start removing it until it looks like a seat again.

This fine-tuning yesterday made a huge difference.

NordieBoy

25th February 2007, 20:16

I came in from doing blisteringly fast laps at a fun natural terrain MX today on my XR and my brother says "That front tyre dosn't have much grip".
I thought it was fine but then realised he was talking about the DR...

Apparantly it handles the tabletop well and the full throttle section through some bumps but washes a bit in the powdery corners with the E07 front :shit:

So I had to go out and do a few laps as well :rolleyes:

Wow!

Nice seat!
Nice suspension!
Nice brakes!
Nice engine!
And a suprising amount of grip from the E07 rear.

(All compared to a 1979 XR250)

NordieBoy

27th February 2007, 08:09

Getting closer to the end product :D

NordieBoy

27th February 2007, 20:15

The beginning of the end!

NordieBoy

27th February 2007, 20:17

The end of the end...

:Punk:

NordieBoy

27th February 2007, 20:20

Also put some CR-High bend bars on which are a bit lower than the mini-bike ones I had on there but they're probably about 2-3cm wider each side and the grips are about 4cm or so further forward.

Wolf

27th February 2007, 20:32

Fucking nice job of the seat, there. Heh, my dad had an old heavy-duty Singer like that, also had a couple of seriously robust electric machines.

NordieBoy

27th February 2007, 20:59

We battled for over an hour to get the vinyl to sit properly in the curve of the seat.
I never knew there was so much physical effort involved in upholstery :shit:

And then having to rivet it all on.

Wolf

27th February 2007, 22:29

I never knew there was so much physical effort involved in upholstery :shit:

Ohhhhhhh, YEAH! :yes:

And that's just over foam - when you get to covering steel-springs it gets really interesting...

Watching dad at work was a real education. And helping haul a large canvas awning aorund to feed it into the sewing machine is a prick of a job even for two people...

NordieBoy

28th February 2007, 07:06

Wolf

28th February 2007, 08:14

Gordon (in the pic) was telling me (in between swearing at the seat) stories about things like glueing and stapling a door liner and then finding someone had filled the stapler with long staples...
Completely attached to the bench :clap:
The swearing seems to go with the territory but I think stapling things to the bench is optional.

Shit, that would've pissed him off.

NordieBoy

3rd March 2007, 16:08

Went through the Maungatapu to Pelorus and back today for a bit of practice.

Met up with 7 cyclists, 1 KTM, 1 twin shock XL500, 3 BMW's, and 3 cars.
The track is getting cut up a bit but is still sweet.

Gave Jantar's rock a good kicking for him :D

Tried lower pressures but I think 20psi front and 25psi rear is sweet.

The verdict on the seat?

:Punk: :Punk: :Punk:

It's so comfy you don't want to stand up.
Other than to pop the front wheel over some of the bumps for fun that is :innocent:

cooneyr

5th March 2007, 09:57

Went through the Maungatapu to Pelorus and back today for a bit of practice........ ...........Tried lower pressures but I think 20psi front and 25psi rear is sweet.

I think you are running trailwings or similar so this probably doesn't apply to you but anyway - . When I had the MT21's on I found the rear could spin on the rim when I was fanging it on gravel. This was with 22 psi on a gravel road with a little bit of bedrock exposed. I think that was power sliding and managed to spin it when it caught a bit of rock. I know not to do that so much now:innocent:

I now have rim locks but I would recommended that if you have knoblies of any type you either do rim locks or about 25-27psi in the rear. I'm not overly aggressive on the front brake but front tyre at 22 psi didn't move.

Cheers R

NordieBoy

5th March 2007, 16:15

Mitas E07's.

Didn't really notice any more grip going lower than 20/25 so will probably stick with that.
I use 25/30 for everyday riding and the side knobs were compressing up but no hints of a slide tootling through the Queen Charlotte or that nice right hander at the start of the hill just out of the Rai heading toward Nelson.

One thing I have noticed is that with the CR-High bars there is quite a bit of wobble in the bars.
I think it's due to more leverage as the effect is not there if you only use 1 hand or hold the bars closer in.

far queue

5th March 2007, 17:13

It's so comfy you don't want to stand up.That's a nice looking seat, I don't blame you for not wanting to get off it.

Didn't really notice any more grip going lower than 20/25 so will probably stick with that.I run 22/25 on the road, as the manual recommends, and find it to be good. But I run around 13/15 off road and find there's a huge improvement in traction. I'm using Mitas E09's, rim locks, and heavy duty tubes.

NordieBoy

5th March 2007, 18:25

Rim locks will happen soon.

NordieBoy

6th March 2007, 18:06

Started cutting up a kindly donated old sheepskin car-seat cover and Jenni won't let me use her needles or thread :(
Some crap about "not strong enough" and "through sheepskin?" and "don't you dare" thrown in for good measure.

So at the moment it's gaffa taped together :Punk:
Hmmm, where's my staple gun...

I'm going to velcro it to the underside of the seat.
Strips of sticky back rough velcro on the seat pan and sew some fluffy velcro strips onto the sheepy.
Shouldn't be able to move then.

NordieBoy

6th March 2007, 18:09

The route book holder is almost complete.
The local shop didn't have any 400ml click-clacks so a 250ml thingy will have to suffice.

Precision engineered (wish the bolts were parallel though :rolleyes:) with adjustable drag and everything.

Wether it will work or not is another thing entirely.

But it does look cute :D

NordieBoy

7th March 2007, 09:03

And now it's on the bike.
Should be pretty waterproof.

Bit worried about vibration and spool creep though.
Just need to put on some bigger knobs, maybe a short length of hydraulic hose.

NordieBoy

7th March 2007, 10:43

Don't think vibration is going to be an issue.
Will be testing the waterproofness this afternoon by the look of things :rolleyes:

Wolf

7th March 2007, 11:51

Will be testing the waterproofness this afternoon by the look of things :rolleyes:
In Nelson?!?!?! Mate, my illusions are shattered.

NordieBoy

7th March 2007, 12:48

In Nelson?!?!?! Mate, my illusions are shattered.

Well it was only 20mins but it was heavy for the last 5mins.
Now a normal cloudy day :)

cooneyr

7th March 2007, 14:29

In Nelson?!?!?! Mate, my illusions are shattered.

Xmas holiday of 05/06 was 9 days of rain out of 10 we spent in NN. Don't worry there are plenty of illusions about NN WX - only thing is you have to be an impartial outsider to realize it LOL :dodge:

Cheers R

Wolf

7th March 2007, 16:03

Xmas holiday of 05/06 was 9 days of rain out of 10 we spent in NN.
Ah, so it's like the "Winterless North" then - two holidays at Xmas in Whangarei, it pissed down for most of both of them... kinda reminded me of my Xmas in Tahiti - hot, oppressively muggy and full-on tropical storms.

NordieBoy

9th March 2007, 10:13

Sheepy is finished.
Added some Dick Smith knobs onto the routesheet holder as well.

NordieBoy

11th March 2007, 09:37

The seat is sweet and the sheepy works well too.
My lower back, neck, shoulders got very sore but my bum, legs and hands were fine.

So that was the Dusty Buttcheek 500.

NordieBoy

11th March 2007, 13:55

Looks like the others went through the Porika and Braeburn to Murch and then pulled out, Alfonz getting his second puncture - must be something inside the tyre rubbing.

NordieBoy

21st March 2007, 20:15

Got my DynoJet kit today.
$112

Put the needle in on the 4th groove from the top and the 160 main jet and opened up the top of the airbox and...

Not a hell of a lot different to the way it was...
I would hazard that there's less throttle response on the bottom and it dosn't start waking up until 5000rpm or so whereas before it pulled right from 3000rpm.

Far less popping on closed throttle though.

Need to fine tune it to my pipe and my airbox on the dyno now.
Be interestink to see the numbers...

The top one is the new needle...

nallac

21st March 2007, 22:15

i'm supprised that it didn't make much of a difference.
It seemed to really wake mine up.It did put a dent in economy tho.

NordieBoy

22nd March 2007, 08:34

Mine already had an open can and was set up on a dyno so the jetting was as good as it could get with the stock needle.

Will try to get to the dyno tomorrow for some more testing.

NordieBoy

23rd March 2007, 19:20

Run #1 - Removed snorkle, drilled slide, Supertrapp IDS with 8 discs.
Run #2 - 1mm spacer under needle.
Run #5 - DynoJet kit - Needle on 3rd from top, 155 main jet (recommended was 4th from top and 160 main).

Should be good :D

Here's the Air/Fuel, Power and Torque graphs comparing the runs.

far queue

23rd March 2007, 20:23

And what did the seat of pants test tell you? Does it seem worth while? I'd also be interested to know what the fuel economy's like? Can you let us know when you've done some rides?

NordieBoy

23rd March 2007, 20:52

Pants are in the wash.
Will find out over the Maungatapu tomorrow.
That extra torque from 3500-5000 should be useful.

The popping is still there in abundance :rolleyes:
But I have found a cure for via an iPod and Jethro Tull :D

Also trying out a ScottOiler Cramp-Buster.
My right shoulder hasn't come right yet from the DustyButt so I thought after seeing TransAlper's one on the mini DR that I'd give one a go on the mighty DR.

I'll fill it up after the ride tomorrow and find out how far it can get in the next week.

cooneyr

23rd March 2007, 21:45

Do you have data from a run pre modifying the bike? The torque and power percentage changes are both less than 10% which if I put my cynical enginers hat on are probably going to be marginaly noticable, if at all noticable. Torque up by 8% power by 6% yet air/fuel ratio by 11%. I take it that because of the lower air to fuel ratio yet the volume of air sucked in remains constant (capacity of the bike stays the same) that your would use more fuel?

This is good data though which you have very kindly provided. Maybe a stock bike to your set up would be a bigger percentage change though?

Cheers R

far queue

23rd March 2007, 22:24

The torque and power percentage changes are both less than 10% which if I put my cynical enginers hat on are probably going to be marginaly noticable, if at all noticable.That's what I thought, hence the seat of the pants question. But with all the posts I've read on Thumpertalk (http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=41) about this conversion, the yanks seem to think it makes a huge difference from stock.

nallac

23rd March 2007, 23:12

the jetting,exhaust header mod and air box mod seem to make a huge difference to the seat of pants. weather its real is a different story.feels good.
Before the mods i was getting about 20ks per litre after about 15.
But it feels so much better to ride.but then i don't pussy foot the bike.

peasea

24th March 2007, 09:06

I think you can safely say it's real. Stock breathing/jetting is pretty lame. It's set up to meet EPA standards which, oddly enough for a 'clean/green' nation, don't apply here. You get real life results from better intake/exhaust bolt-ons and appropriate jetting; you might want to consider a day on the dyno too. If your intake/exhaust is improved and you run lean you can kiss a piston goodbye in short order; especially at higher rpm. If you don't want to use a dyno at least get an exhaust gas analyzer onto it. Good luck.

NordieBoy

24th March 2007, 09:38

I don't have one completely stock.
#1 is No snorkle and SuperTrapp with 8 discs and extra hole in carb slide.
It had a much better feel than stock though.

The things I like from the torque graph are the fact that the torque at 4k5 is now coming in at 3k5 and that the maximum torque of the old setup at 5k is there at 3k7.
On the power graph the hp at 6k is there at 5k1.

It should pull away from lower revs much better and cleaner.
I'm not too worried what happens above 6k as in normal use I don't go much above 5k (4k5 @ 100kph).

@5k there is 10% more power and 10% more torque.

Off to test it through the Maungatapu now :D

cooneyr

24th March 2007, 11:54

You quite right - rather than vertical change on the graph the hoizonal shift is probably more relavant i.e. power is available sooner in the rev range.

Let us know what you think of the change.

Cheers R

NordieBoy

24th March 2007, 21:53

Well after going through the Maungatapu I found my max rpm's was 5100 pulling 3rd gear onto one of the gravel straights heading into Pelorus.

I tend to use a higher gear with less revs and it pulled away no problems.
Definitely felt better with no hesitations or lag.

The main problem now is I found that one of the 2 remaining (one broke years ago) machine screws holding the SuperTrapp discs in is no longer there...
Must have objected to the gas analyser up it's bum yesterday.
The remaining screw was loose and the discs have been rattling around causing a bit of damage.

Pulled the core out and half the packing is gone.
Re-packed with some glass string from an old pipe and the SuperTrapp remainder and could have put some more in as well :rolleyes:

I may be looking for a new can soon as this one is getting to be a bit of a Frankenstein's Monster with all the bolts holding it together but it is over 5 years old and has been on 2 bikes and never been re-packed.

Anyone got a SuperTrapp IDS they don't want?

CM2005

24th March 2007, 22:00

sweet bike... mines for sale, you shoulda bought it! haha, it'd be good for fulfilling Dakar fantasies! Welkommen to KB brutha!

NordieBoy

24th March 2007, 22:36

Thanks :D
I think I'll like it here, seems like a good bunch.

NordieBoy

26th March 2007, 17:31

Anyone know the DR 650 DynoJet settings for an open airbox and standard pipe?

u4ea

26th March 2007, 17:46

Huh....newbie since 2004?
But congrats on the new bike - good choice, wouldnt mind one myself

yer welcome back!!!!!:whocares: :rockon:

NordieBoy

30th March 2007, 21:44

New front brake pads today.
Some EBC Sintered to replace the 1mm old pads :o

NordieBoy

31st March 2007, 16:09

More bling...

Zeta bar protectors with modified stock handguards.
Also modified the headlight plastics.

NordieBoy

2nd April 2007, 18:55

Started work on a cheapy bashplate.

Can anyone guess what it used to be?

No?

Anyone?

cooneyr

2nd April 2007, 19:57

Started work on a cheapy bashplate.

Can anyone guess what it used to be?

No?

Anyone?

You dont even want to know what a modern sign (high reflectiviy one) like that is worth! Have a guess. They are rather thin plate though arent they (1.5mm ish mild steel)? At least you will be able to see you engine with the reflected light! Opps its other way up.

Cheers R

NordieBoy

2nd April 2007, 20:34

2.5mm aluminiumunim.
My little jigsaw with a wood blade cut it OK :D

Jenni got it for me from work, this one had had an accident.

cooneyr

3rd April 2007, 08:18

2.5mm aluminiumunim.
My little jigsaw with a wood blade cut it OK :D

Jenni got it for me from work, this one had had an accident.

Sweet - 2.5mm alloy should take a few knocks.

I wonder some times if the "students" around the place realise how much money they are costing the country (in the end the gvmnt pays) when they aquire such signs. A 600 diameter or 600 square sign is in the order of $500 with the new highly reflective honeycomb stuff.

Sign manufacturing firms must love the rules that Transit introduced back in 2000 where there are now requirements for 1200*1200 signs. Wouldnt need many to cover a wall :innocent:

Cheers R

NordieBoy

3rd April 2007, 21:48

Cars will see me coming even without the headlight :D

Used some high density foam strips along the frame rails and some hose clamps to hold it on.
I'll get the back end bolted down to those two mounts back there.

It's not going to take a lot of abuse but I'm not going to abuse it a lot.

No extra engine noise to speak of and you don't even notice it's there whilst riding.

Bugger!
Just worked out how to do the hose clamps to make it easier...

NordieBoy

4th April 2007, 09:49

Uh oh!

I do not think this is good...

cooneyr

4th April 2007, 10:09

Skid plate is kinda reflective!

What have you been running over? I remember watching a program about a concord engine blowing up on take of due to a tyre flying to bits cause a stip of metal sliced it. Watch out you don't blow up!

Looks kinda deep - time for a new tyre?

Cheers R

NordieBoy

4th April 2007, 10:21

New tyre was ordered just before the Dusty Butt - Waiting...
Seems more like a delamination than a cut.
I think it's always been there, just smaller - 2nd hand tyre.

cooneyr

4th April 2007, 10:41

New tyre was ordered just before the Dusty Butt - Waiting...
Seems more like a delamination than a cut.
I think it's always been there, just smaller - 2nd hand tyre.

If the casing is still OK just chuck some vulcanizing glue (tube patching glue) in there. Should hold it all together OK but keep an eye on it. You might managed to see the tyre out.

Cheers R

NordieBoy

5th April 2007, 19:41

New IRC GP21 went on today.
Wasn't prepared to take the risk and the E07 is still about 4 weeks away.

NordieBoy

5th April 2007, 19:44

cooneyr

5th April 2007, 20:48

Oh...
Also found where the noise with bashplates is generated from :D

Mine was nice and quiet until I bolted the back of it to those 2 mounts behind the engine.

All of a sudden it was "let there be noise".
Take bolts out, noise isn't there anymore.

Do you think this is cause it is rigidly mounted therefore the vibration is tranmitted directly to the plate. How rigid are your other mounts?

My plate is bolted to those holes but I wouldnt say it is noisy??????

Cheers R

PLUG

5th April 2007, 22:15

New IRC GP21 went on today.
Wasn't prepared to take the risk and the E07 is still about 4 weeks away.

... the mowerman & his shit house level of service strike again ... had simlar happen to me re delamination ... responce was "never heard/seen that before" ... something about old skool "casting" (mitas method, by the time the rubber runs around the mould to join up there is a tempreture differential between the joining part, hence the lifting) v new school injection method

Transalper

5th April 2007, 22:40

mmmm, seen the end of 2 or 3 of those E07s myself but... never heard/seen that before:laugh:

C&C-rider

5th April 2007, 22:53

Welcome to the esteemed ranks of DR riders, please feel no need to surpass my record for crashes in one day!
The 650 is a great choice (just bought my second one) and its just in time for summer.

Heyy Nordie , Ima dedicated DR (350) rider and my next one will be a 650. So Im jealous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

NordieBoy

6th April 2007, 10:41

Do you think this is cause it is rigidly mounted therefore the vibration is tranmitted directly to the plate. How rigid are your other mounts?

My plate is bolted to those holes but I wouldnt say it is noisy??????

Cheers R

Only rigidly mounted at the very back (no more) and front.
Foam under the frame tubes to insulate it the rest of the way.
Undo the back bolts and no more noise.

NordieBoy

10th April 2007, 21:14

Went down to Wipara on Friday (was thinking of going through the Rainbow but decided not to - GWS Ryan - GWS Ryan's bike) through the Lewis.
Monday was back up to Kaikoura via the Inland Route (Jenni says there was a biker down just before Kaikoura :() and then up to Picton, rained from halfway through the Inland Route and right through to Seddon).
Today was from Picton through the Queen Charlotte at 4pm (Arrrggghhh - sun strike) and then the Maungatapu back home.
Some buggers have been busy gravelling and grading the Maungatapu from Pelorus right through to where the track starts proper.
Thick gravel and some graded rocks from the verges thrown in to the mix :(
Also saw a large log loader type machine sitting just past the apex of a right hander and there was a guy standing behind it with a pile of divers air bottles beside him.
Then I saw the 4WD over the bank.
Must have come around the corner (deep gravel) and braked suddenly for the loader and slid off.
The guy smiled and waved as I went past so it must have happened a while ago.

Not too sure what I think of the IRC GP21 front.
Would like to compare it to the Mitas E07 on the same surfaces.
It went fine but didn't seem to inspire the same level of confidence on either the seal or in the gravel that the Mitas did.

787Km in 10hrs of riding and there's no discernable wear on it.

I would think that with a bit lower pressure it would be a great gravel tyre though.

NordieBoy

13th April 2007, 17:24

Just noticed there's a chunk mark in my bashplate about in-line with the oil filter.
It just paid for itself :D

PLUG

13th April 2007, 21:19

787Km in 10hrs of riding

I would think that with a bit lower pressure it would be a great gravel tyre though.

dusty butt in 1 day pace ... try it ... you might like it ...

NordieBoy

13th April 2007, 22:19

Averaging 78kph?
On gravel?
Mt Altimarloch?
Maungatapu?
On gravel?
Gravel?

Hmmm.
Wonder what mileage you'd get out of a set of ice spikes?

NordieBoy

14th April 2007, 19:01

Found my winter gloves :woohoo:

They've been missing for 2 years :o

.They were less than 2m from my computer chair....

NordieBoy

16th April 2007, 19:32

Been playing...

Transalper

18th April 2007, 15:14

Hey Nordie, you have a scottoiler on that DR don't you...?
Could you post some close up photos of the end nozzel mounting arrangement and tube paths please... and might as well throw one of the bottle mount to, or is it a touring kit one behind the number plate? (If so, I don't really need to see that part)
Cheers
TA.

NordieBoy

18th April 2007, 20:48

Touring kit behind the plate.
But...
Will be dumping the touring part and moving the oiler to the frame member by the fuel tap soon...
Basically the same as on the Nordie (http://www.photostorage.nelson.geek.nz/sports/motorsport/mybikes/nordwest/scottoiler/)

The weight of the touring kit on the numberplate mount makes me feel uneasy :D

Transalper

18th April 2007, 22:59

Thanks, just got one for my DR and am looking for a good way to set it up.
Got a duel nozzel for mine, will proberbly mount the main body under the tap like you were talking about.
They have a lube tube thing you can add if you want to keep the long range idea of the touring kit. It's a flexable bag you fill and stash where ever. It should feed the scotty for ages.

NordieBoy

19th April 2007, 17:19

Phew! That was close!
Going out to Richmond and got to the end of the bypass where the lanes merge due to the roadworks and we're going at walking pace...
The white NTN Courier van catches up behind me and suddenly realises that the traffic is not moving...
I looked in my mirror and saw smoke coming off his tyres and heard the squealing at the same time...
I pulled over to the left lane as he was looming in my mirrors (luckily we were still moving) and he ended up well ahead of where I would have been...
Any hesitation on my part and the bike would have been written off and me as well probably.
A bit of an adrenaline rush I could have done without thank you very much :rolleyes:

Wolf

19th April 2007, 18:12

NordieBoy

20th April 2007, 12:51

I'd rather not take those sort of risks :(
It wasn't really a "rush", mainly the "..sh" part.

Got the Stebel mounted today.
Ummm, it's bigger than the standard horn :D

Transalper

20th April 2007, 12:59

Does that just plug in to existing wires or did you need to relay it?
Is it all watertight?
How loud she be?
What it cost?
Where'd it come from?
What are this weekends winning lotto numbers going to be?

NordieBoy

20th April 2007, 13:35

Does that just plug in to existing wires or did you need to relay it?
Existing wires.

Is it all watertight?
Probably not but shouldn't be an issue.

How loud she be?
Very :D

What it cost?
$75 or so.

Where'd it come from?
Warlock in the Stebel thread in the Trading thingy here.
He's just about to do another order.

What are this weekends winning lotto numbers going to be?

11, 13, 16, 29, 34, 38 (28)

Crisis management

20th April 2007, 13:59

I notice you mention earlier in this thread disconnecting the TPS. What is the advantage of doing this?
I take it, it is a simple unplug job, as it is only a switch that is open until the full throttle position is made. Is there anything more tricky than that to it?

Any comments, advice, welcome...

NordieBoy

20th April 2007, 15:20

Advantage?
It made me feel better.

I just flipped the lever over so it can't touch the microswitch.
All the mods I had done up to that point were reversable.

Now I don't worry about reversability :D

Crisis management

20th April 2007, 17:37

Riiight, another fully explained technical response......:second:

I was hoping for some understanding of the reason for the microswitch as there is little apparent reason I can see unless it controls max revs somehow????

However, I shall follow your lead and take it off and throw it away!

NordieBoy

20th April 2007, 18:05

I thought it was possibly a rev-limiter but the dyno says there is a rev limiter there without it.

warewolf

21st April 2007, 02:50

Just had some visiting RTW Chermans stay with us (http://www.motorradnomaden.de/). They had the normal - non-touring reservoir - scottoilers mounted around the headlight surround, with a new soft external reservoir - Lube Tube (http://www.scottoiler.com/lubetube.asp) - in a bag above the headlight. Apparently it's a new thing from Scottoiler.

Seemed like a good mounting place to me, as it is easy to fill, visually monitor, and adjust.

Transalper

21st April 2007, 08:31

Seen the Lube tube, was going to get one after I finish mounting the Scotty... if i found a nice place for it on the DR.
Lube Tube cost about $60 to $70 here.

NordieBoy

21st April 2007, 08:56

I was getting a couple of months out of a normal Scotty.
With it mounted by the fuel tap you check it in the normal course of getting on the bike and it's easy to refill.
Also keeps the tubing as short as possible.
A loobtube could go in the toolbox quite easily as noone puts tools in there - do they?

NordieBoy

21st April 2007, 12:44

Just got the beginnings of my next upgrade project on TradeMe :D

Cheaper than a rear spring from the States.

cooneyr

21st April 2007, 12:52

Just got the beginnings of my next upgrade project on TradeMe :D

Cheaper than a rear spring from the States.

Now you have got me interested. What are you up too? Thats a factory shock and spring isn't it?

I dont like the lackluster rebound damping or the low spring stiffness of the shock. Compression damping is ok with the current spring. Anything along those lines?????

Cheers R

NordieBoy

21st April 2007, 17:43

:D

DRZ400 shock - Compression and rebound damping and large choice of springs.

Next next will be progressive springs in the front.

Just finished removing the ScottOiler touring tank and moved the resovoir to beside the fuel tap.
That's a lot of weight off the number plate mount and makes me feel a lot better.

NordieBoy

25th April 2007, 21:31

Just took Jenni through the Maungatapu-Dakar from Pelorus to Nelson on the DR.
Not sure if she'll do that again :o
Once may be enough.

Pulled the upper chain roller off when I got home.
Could hear the chain hitting it and feel it through the footpegs going through bumps in the road (seal) 2-up.

I've already got a ball-raced roller in the lower.

NordieBoy

27th April 2007, 18:13

Just did mine.
Left a bit of meat just in case.
The inner red line is before and the outer is after.
About 30% bigger area.

Should be a bit more flow there now...

carver

27th April 2007, 21:15

hey fellow DR riders
i just re-fitted with VEE RUBBER 221 + Trail Wolf $140 fitted for both!
grips good off road, go the Vee Rubber
went from the 525 to a 520 chain, 15/46 on the gearing rather than 15/42.
its on 722 renthals too!
go the DR!

NordieBoy

28th April 2007, 13:28

Should be a bit more flow there now...

Ummm...

Why didn't I do this long ago.

I'm tempted to pull it apart again and gring the weld flush but there isn't a welder handy if I go too far.

First reaction is that it pulls up from low revs quite a bit quicker.

Oops, I shouldn't really be testing this on wet roads type quicker :o

far queue

28th April 2007, 13:38

I was hoping for some understanding of the reason for the microswitch as there is little apparent reason I can see unless it controls max revs somehow????I was told by the mechanic at the local Suzuki shop some time ago that the TPS altered the ignition mapping, but he didn't know what effect this had or what effect disconnecting it might have.

U.S. models don't have this switch, but other markets do - Canada and Sweden are 2 that I know of and of course Oz.

NordieBoy, have you noticed any changes yet with yours out of the way?

NordieBoy

28th April 2007, 13:44

I never went to full throttle with it on.
Or with it off come to that :o

Other than the dyno.

It could alter the mapping but as it's only a full throttle sensor all it could do would be retard the ignition.

I may try and accidentally d/l the DR650 manual when I drop off the carbide burr I used to do the header weld.

Crisis management

30th April 2007, 11:49

clint640

30th April 2007, 12:42

After a bit more reading, my understanding is that it retards the ignition in 2nd and 3rd gear....presumably to prevent over reving!
This obviously assumes a gear position sensor of some sort but I've found nothing about that yet.
Comments on ADV rider lead me to understand it is a common mod and nothing has blown up yet.
I'll try it out and let you know in the next couple of days.

Maybe it's to give it a bit less bark (std DR650 bark? :laugh: ) & comply with euro noise laws, on my KTM there was an electronic doofer that vented the top of the carb under the same circumstances to reduce noise. Needless to say that particular wheelie inhibiting gadget is now propping up a landfill somewhere.

Cheers
Clint

NordieBoy

30th April 2007, 16:04

NordieBoy

2nd May 2007, 16:09

2 more mods today.

An LED brake light ($12) from Dick Smiths.

And...
Carb spring shortened (http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4569972#post4569972) from 111mm to 102mm (3.5 turns shorter).
Wow.
Any more pickup through the revs and it'll be illegal.

NordieBoy

2nd May 2007, 16:21

It has arrived :D

cooneyr

2nd May 2007, 20:30

It has arrived :D

Does it fit? Does it make any differance and in what way?

Cheers R

NordieBoy

2nd May 2007, 22:16

The spring will probably be far too soft and the lower shock mount from the 650 needs drilling/tapping for the new shock shaft and some more drilling and tapping for the rebound adjuster and then I'll find out :D

Apparantly the action is far smoother with the adjustable compression and rebound but the stock DRZ spring is far softer than the 650 one.

warewolf

2nd May 2007, 23:23

Transalper

2nd May 2007, 23:41

While ya busy messing with the DR heres something to research... extra lighting (http://www.ironbutt.com/tech/auxlights.cfm)..
HID bulbs do not use a filament like halogen bulb, rather, it creates light by zapping an arc between two electrodes. This arc excites xenon gases, igniting metallic salts. The product of this reaction is intense white light. HID has power consumption of approximately 3.5 amps constant draw compared to approximately 10 amps drawn from a standard halogen light bulb. HID bulb life is an average of 3000 hours compared to the halogen's 750 hour life, and is not effected by vibrations or rough road conditions.Now i want to see daylight at night coming from your bike next time we meet. Then i want to copy it... maybe.

NordieBoy

3rd May 2007, 07:05

If the spring is too far out, then it follows that the damping will also likely be out. Unless the std damping is crap and the DR-Z400 is by sheer fluke much better suited.

It's obviously a better built shock. Is it worth talking to a suspension guru about the appropriate spring and a re-valve?

The guys that have tried them love the far better damping.
If I go to the correct spring for my weight on the standard shock the spring goes from 6.5 kg/mm to 7.6 kg/mm and as there's no rebound damping adjustment it turns into a pogo stick.

clint640

3rd May 2007, 16:07

2 more mods today.

An LED brake light ($12) from Dick Smiths.

.

So that's where ya get em from! I searched RS, Jaycar, TM, Repco etc a few weeks back for those, with no luck. Tail light filaments basically disintegrate in horror when brought within a foot of the rear of my KTM. Guess where I'm going after work today!

Cheers
Clint

NordieBoy

3rd May 2007, 22:17

While ya busy messing with the DR heres something to research... extra lighting (http://www.ironbutt.com/tech/auxlights.cfm)..Now i want to see daylight at night coming from your bike next time we meet. Then i want to copy it... maybe.

Damn you!

You made me spend the whole evening reading advrider about HID conversions.

To replace the stock bulb (http://www.cqlight.ca/product_info.php?cPath=31_66&products_id=115).
or
In addition to the stocker (http://trailtech.net/single_hid_scmr16.html).

warewolf

3rd May 2007, 22:28

So that's where ya get em from! I searched RS, Jaycar, TM, Repco etc a few weeks back for those, with no luck. Hmm... motomail had 'em a couple of years ago. The Triumph Trophy blows them now and then, the DRZ-250 about every three months (might be an indication of how long and hard it was being revved). But the motomail ones were not very bright and didn't seem to light up the whole lens area, but rather just showed as a handful of LEDs, so I declined.

Tail light filaments basically disintegrate in horror when brought within a foot of the rear of my KTM.The Adventure is still running the original tail light after two years, 22,000km. The OEM ones are probably heavy duty types, so try OEM or Hella HDs or something. No I don't know where you can get them locally, either.

NordieBoy

3rd May 2007, 22:46

The Adventure is still running the original tail light after two years, 22,000km. The OEM ones are probably heavy duty types, so try OEM or Hella HDs or something. No I don't know where you can get them locally, either.

I blew 3 Repco blinkers in quick succession on the Nordie and then no more for 2 years.

warewolf

3rd May 2007, 23:10

You made me spend the whole evening reading advrider about HID conversions.Did you read all the -ves? Like the price? or the way you can't get a low/high combination bulb? Or that they often aren't certified for street use, since they aren't instant-on? Or that in use they are so bright that oncoming traffic regularly flash their lights in protest? Or that they need full voltage to fire up - conditions where your headlight would be dim/yellowing won't ignite the arc - and often require upgraded wiring to avoid voltage losses? You need to mount two extra cigarette-sized metal boxes, one a step-up transformer from 12V to 23,000V, and the other the igniter to trigger the arc.

One reason the HIDs are so popular on bikes is their low power consumption, which leaves your tiddly alternator output with more juice to power your heated vest, gloves, sox, boxers and in-car DVD theatre system, err, um, NAVIGATION equipment.

I reckon they'd be good for an auxiliary light but not high/low. However their price doesn't represent value. A 50W halogen-xenon (OHC) dichroic would be a better spend, and pump out something like 80W halogen equivalent, for 1/10th or 1/20th the price... and without any extra hardware. Despite that, I've got one ready to go on the Triumph to upgrade the worn-out 50W halogen dichroic spotty. It's a 35W, so around 125-180W halogen equivalent. (Sing out if you want to come have a look, Nordieboy). Got it "cheap" off advrider.

The dichroic has been great, it is not a spot despite the 10deg focus, it lights up evenly across all your peripheral vision. They are readily available in many wattages and beam-widths.

Or if you are worried about alternator output, change your halogen bulbs for a halogen-xenon mix for less watts for the same light output.

I upgraded the Adventure from halogen blubs (H1 type, one for high, one for low) to halogen-xenon mix bulbs. Narva sells these bulbs as "Plus 50"s and they pump out a helluva lot more light than the halogens at the same power. A useful and cost-effective upgrade, although others report that they are worthless??

The "All Weather" bulbs lived up to their name, I found them to be much better for driving on wet, foggy nights.

Food for thought.

Transalper

3rd May 2007, 23:25

I was thinking as an extra light, only turn it on when u in the rough.
How is this dichroic thing with excess vibration. I had some nice flash xenon bulbs in my CBR1000 that was good on road in the inline 4, but was warned no good in thumpers. I suspect they were different to what you speak of.

NordieBoy

4th May 2007, 07:33

Did you read all the -ves? Like the price? or the way you can't get a low/high combination bulb?
My 1st link was to a high/low one for $119 + postage Canadian.

Or that they need full voltage to fire up - conditions where your headlight would be dim/yellowing won't ignite the arc - and often require upgraded wiring to avoid voltage losses? You need to mount two extra cigarette-sized metal boxes, one a step-up transformer from 12V to 23,000V, and the other the igniter to trigger the arc.
Plug and play.
Uses existing wiring.

A 50W halogen-xenon (OHC) dichroic would be a better spend, and pump out something like 80W halogen equivalent, for 1/10th or 1/20th the price... and without any extra hardware. Despite that, I've got one ready to go on the Triumph to upgrade the worn-out 50W halogen dichroic spotty. It's a 35W, so around 125-180W halogen equivalent. (Sing out if you want to come have a look, Nordieboy). Got it "cheap" off advrider.
Hmmm...

Food for thought.
Mmmmmmm, fooood.

Transalper

4th May 2007, 08:01

So i guess it would be better for the bike to use the instead of kit.
mmm, I got Js credit card at the moment... no i must not, i must wait for the test pilot to try it first.
Like to try the superbrace (http://www.sporttouringusa.com/DR650/) too.

cooneyr

4th May 2007, 08:42

You boys and your toys. I'd be bloody happy to get my stock bike back and get riding! Interesting reading none the less.

Cheers R

NordieBoy

4th May 2007, 09:35

Like to try the superbrace (http://www.sporttouringusa.com/DR650/) too.

Saw that, nice bit of work.
The harder you ride your bike the more you'd notice the effects.

"Your credit card will not be charged until your order is shipped."
Hmmm, so the exchange rate will have changed by then, probably for the worse.

warewolf

4th May 2007, 11:15

My 1st link was to a high/low one for $119 + postage Canadian.I knew you'd come back with that! It's HID in "Low Beam Only". From what I've read, the halogen high beam is seriously compromised, although the low beam is pretty good. But you still have the issue that low beam is limited (by law) to something like 75m in front of your vehicle, so the HID part is no good at speed... when you want it most.

The other systems use the one light source and have some kind of adjustable reflector-thing to create hi/lo. Apparently these are even worse; drop in replacements are nothing like the OEM ones in high-end cars.

Plug and play.
Uses existing wiring.Yebbut that's sales talk. My point was that your existing wiring may not be good enough, and you will want/need to upgrade it. Plus, you still have to mount those two extra boxes.

Transalper

4th May 2007, 12:30

Saw that, nice bit of work.
The harder you ride your bike the more you'd notice the effects.

"Your credit card will not be charged until your order is shipped."
Hmmm, so the exchange rate will have changed by then, probably for the worse.
I recall this from earlier in this thread i think, how i first heard of them. People were humming and arring then.
Today is the last day the group buy discount is available so i figure saving $38US if you buy now is good even if the exchange rate gets worse. I probably don't ride hard enough to feel it but i got curious so ordered one while the opportunity was there. I think the DR is the first bike i might and indeed am going to spend money on trying to get better handling out of, but i don't plan on messing with the engine

NordieBoy

4th May 2007, 19:20

But you still have the issue that low beam is limited (by law) to something like 75m in front of your vehicle, so the HID part is no good at speed... when you want it most.

Just has to drop 3mm per 3m for an asymmetrical dipped light.

The other systems use the one light source and have some kind of adjustable reflector-thing to create hi/lo. Apparently these are even worse; drop in replacements are nothing like the OEM ones in high-end cars.

Or move the bulb via a servo.

Yebbut that's sales talk. My point was that your existing wiring may not be good enough, and you will want/need to upgrade it. Plus, you still have to mount those two extra boxes.

But HID pulling 5A versus Halogen pulling 10A?

Anyway, I'm starting out small.
Got a +50 60/55W today :woohoo:

NordieBoy

4th May 2007, 19:24

I recall this from earlier in this thread i think, how i first heard of them. People were humming and arring then.
Today is the last day the group buy discount is available so i figure saving $38US if you buy now is good even if the exchange rate gets worse.
I finally decided to bite the bullet and get one as well.
I missed out :(

I think the DR is the first bike i might and indeed am going to spend money on trying to get better handling out of, but i don't plan on messing with the engine
Do some cheap/free messing though.
Remove the snorkle, 1mm spacer under the needle and grind the header weld.

NordieBoy

4th May 2007, 19:57

Tested the new headlight out via Rosebank Hill, Jacobs Ladder and the Dovedale Hill (nice gravel loop) it turned night into day :D

Or that could have been riding at 4pm that did that.

warewolf

4th May 2007, 23:48

But HID pulling 5A versus Halogen pulling 10A?That's the "in use" figure, not the startup current. You need to ignite the arc, once it is started it is sustained with much less current.

10A @ 12V = 120W nominal lamp... that's pretty strong. Maybe OK for a spottie on a big-alternator Beemer. HID equivalent would only be 2-3A.

The shape and spread of the light is also important, and also the relationship between high and low. I ran 80/100W instead of the standard 55/60W in the Triumph and that was good. But the 55/100W was terrible, because low beam was dim & yellow compared with high, so every time you dipped your lights you were doubly-blind. I tried a 90/130W but it melted then shorted the wiring at the back of the headlight, and wasn't as good as the 80/100W. (This was after riding a TDM850 that had the std dim yellow 35/35W pair replaced with 55/60Ws - the latter being absolutely brilliant, if you pardon the pun.)

After a discussion about the way the eye works, with a chap who was involved with night-vision stuff with fighter pilots and other armed forces personnel, I ended up upgrading the wiring (already built into the bike but unused!!), going back to the 55/60W bulb, and adding the dichroic spotty. The visibility with the std wattage bulb being driven at full voltage through good wiring is superb. Easy on the eye and plenty of vision. Not bright, but very effective. The shape of the beam is well designed and allows the eyes to work very well with the std power bulb. The dichroic complements that with penetration and a nice even spread... oooh err! ... but it is not a harsh light.

NordieBoy

5th May 2007, 09:04

It seems that the main complaint people have with the DR650 lighting is that the reflector is not very well designed versus the ADV's very well designed reflectors.

warewolf

6th May 2007, 17:46

Yeah, it's a bit easier to get a good shape with a round reflector!

Have you thought about any of those enduro headlight assemblies, like the Acerbis DHH (http://www.acerbis.com/p107_headlight/3024.html)? The weight savings on your steering is huge, too. Looks like they run dichroics, again you could upgrade from halogen to halogen-xenon for more light - or go up to 50-60W.

Oops! The DHH CE (http://www.acerbis.com/p107_headlight/3026.html) is the road-legal job.

The Diamond (http://www.acerbis.com/p107_headlight/3001.html)is better, from reviews I've read, but it is not DOT-compliant.

Crisis management

6th May 2007, 20:41

I finally got around to trying out the throttle position switch disconnection...
Basically it made no difference to the bikes performance, 2nd gear full speed before disconnection was 90Km/hr (rev limiter cutting in) and the same after disconnection.
No percievable difference in acceleration etc.

So.. another mystery solved? maybe not.

NordieBoy

6th May 2007, 21:26

An Acerbis DHH was the first light I put on the Nordie after the write-off.
2*15W of non-DOT halogen light isn't a hell of a lot :D

I have a spare UFO that may get used if I change the forks although 5W of blinkers isn't a hell of a lot either.

NordieBoy

6th May 2007, 21:32

The dimension (http://www.acerbis.com/p107_headlight/148440.html) isn't too bad.
The number board will have a good spoiler effect as well.

NordieBoy

7th May 2007, 18:21

carver

7th May 2007, 22:09

Finally decided to take the header weld back to flush with the header wall.
No lip at all now.

While it was off I should have measured the exhaust port dia. to see if it matched the header :rolleyes:

my one had one, strange..
i rode DR650SE's...uh DR 650se, very different to mine, much more tame

NordieBoy

7th May 2007, 22:49

This is what it looked like before...

carver

8th May 2007, 12:53

yeah, thats the one, this should be a DR 650 thread!

Transalper

8th May 2007, 15:13

It is a DR650 thread... more precisely it's Nordies DR650 thread all about Nordies DR650.:niceone:

Wolf

8th May 2007, 16:11

It is a DR650 thread... more precisely it's Nordies DR650 thread all about Nordies DR650.:niceone:
Indeed it is. Post number 1:

Hello, my name is NordieBoy and I've just bought a DR650.

Be gentle with me.

:scooter:

NordieBoy

8th May 2007, 16:18

Well it goes even more betterer now.

I've got to stop modifying it now otherwise Tristan Scalmer is going to have problems :D

NordieBoy

8th May 2007, 18:05

Transalper

8th May 2007, 18:54

Me thinks me might add that to the tweaks list, am told it makes a big difference to the old single disc Trasnsalps too. Just never got around to doing it before.

NordieBoy

8th May 2007, 20:07

Just over $100 - can't go wrong.

cooneyr

8th May 2007, 20:24

After seeing and playing with Ryans new braided front brakes I went home and bled mine (very dark fluid) and...
It's no different :(

I'm getting a braided line too now :D

On Ryans I could single/two finger the brake lever and it didn't pull in anywhere near my other knuckles.

It's like night and day.

Oi you - leave my bike alone!!!!!!

I was happy with the old set up but was told it would be cheaper for a braded line than to get a factory line. Hope it is not to hard to modulate though - dont want to lock the front to easily on gravel/dirt.

Hopefully the bike will be ready shortly then you could maybe take if for a little ride Nordie (if you play nice)???? Might be an interesting comparison of a stock (as far as I know) bike versus your moded bike. You know how I'm missing the micro switch on the carb (for a NZ model) - maybe its not stock given it was sold new in Mot?????

Cheers R

NordieBoy

8th May 2007, 20:56

Oi you - leave my bike alone!!!!!!
Make me! :D
I only pulled the lever while Wayne was trying to fix the dash wiring :o

I was happy with the old set up but was told it would be cheaper for a braded line than to get a factory line. Hope it is not to hard to modulate though - dont want to lock the front to easily on gravel/dirt.
I think the main difference is there isn't any "sponginess", it's a more direct connection fron your fingers to the disc - I tested the difference with mine and could feel the brake line expand as I squeezed the lever hard - Hmmm, cheap ABS?.

Hopefully the bike will be ready shortly then you could maybe take if for a little ride Nordie (if you play nice)???? Might be an interesting comparison of a stock (as far as I know) bike versus your moded bike. You know how I'm missing the micro switch on the carb (for a NZ model)
Would be interestink, even with the 15t sprocket :D
Also to let Wayne ride both and comment as an impartial observer.

maybe its not stock given it was sold new in Mot?????
I keep feeling that it's not an "official" import - No TPS, bigger hole in pipe, brake light.
Murray Thorn may have got it in direct for someone or that's what NZ got that year.

cooneyr

8th May 2007, 21:11

Make me! :D
I only pulled the lever while Wayne was trying to fix the dash wiring :o

Um Yer - I'll come up there on a magic carpet and tickle you to death with a feather.

Would be interestink, even with the 15t sprocket :D
Also to let Wayne ride both and comment as an impartial observer.

I'm keen to get some info. I have a hunch that the mods you are making may be decreasing or maintaining the torque and inreasing the power thereby making the bike feel more peaky. I kinda like a nice linear torquey feel. I've driven diesels for the past 13 years so that might may explain things.

I keep feeling that it's not an "official" import - No TPS, bigger hole in pipe, brake light.
Murray Thorn may have got it in direct for someone or that's what NZ got that year.

The rear light was stock on the older bikes as far as I know. No evidence other than the yank prattling to confirm this and the pipe and TPS are odd.

Cheers R

NordieBoy

8th May 2007, 21:55

I'm keen to get some info. I have a hunch that the mods you are making may be decreasing or maintaining the torque and inreasing the power thereby making the bike feel more peaky. I kinda like a nice linear torquey feel. I've driven diesels for the past 13 years so that might may explain things.

The recent mods (carb spring, header weld grind) all felt like they gave it more bottom end.

I'm feeling that it's probably maintaining peak power and torque but the torque curve is broader now.

Hmmm...
Wonder how many free dyno runs I've got left.

NordieBoy

9th May 2007, 21:52

Just testing the roll-on from 70-100 in 4th gear today and it's about 3 seconds but I have no idea how fast or slow I'm counting whilst doing it :D

Thinking and measuring my next next project now...
Cheap good lights without going to HID :D

Single or twin stacked spots or even the Buell mod if I can get a price locally.

NordieBoy

9th May 2007, 21:58

The rear light was stock on the older bikes as far as I know. No evidence other than the yank prattling to confirm this and the pipe and TPS are odd.

Wayne told me today how NZ's bikes get allocated by Suzuki.
If Suzuki are making up a Canadian shipment when we order stuff, we get Canadian spec bikes.
If it's Aussie bikes being made, we get them.
If it's Californication bikes, we don't get them 'cause they're crap.
When your bike came over the whole shipment was probably the same.

cooneyr

10th May 2007, 09:12

Wayne told me today how NZ's bikes get allocated by Suzuki.
If Suzuki are making up a Canadian shipment when we order stuff, we get Canadian spec bikes.
If it's Aussie bikes being made, we get them.
If it's Californication bikes, we don't get them 'cause they're crap.
When your bike came over the whole shipment was probably the same.

Interestink. I'll have to go and have a look at the manual and try and figure out which model it is then. Glad to know that I'm not the only special one in the country!

Cheers R

warewolf

10th May 2007, 09:31

My DR-Z250 was an Aussie spec bike, in fact it was Aussie-new & complied, then shipped over to NZ to be sold new here.

The DR200SE was an American-spec bike, speedo in miles, steering wheel on the left, etc.

In both cases, the bike came with an American hand book, but the Aussie-market bike had an addition wrt Aussie noise/pollution regs.

NordieBoy

10th May 2007, 16:47

Braided front brake line arrived today :D
Too wet for me to install it though :(

Somehow I just did 345km to reserve (20km/L).
I normally get 300-310 max.
I'll see how this next tank goes.
Either the cut carb spring/header weld grind really helped out or I forgot to reset the trip meter at some stage.

cooneyr

10th May 2007, 16:51

Braided front brake line arrived today :D
Too wet for me to install it though :(

Somehow I just did 345km to reserve.
I normally get 300-310 max.
I'll see how this next tank goes.
Either the cut carb spring/header weld grind really helped out or I forgot to reset the trip meter at some stage.

Stop ya winjing about the rain and go get my bike. Left a message on your cell. Get to try out a braded line in the wet (bribe for you there).

Do you know how much does an IMS really holds? I know it is advertised as an 18 l but I'm sure I saw a referance to 22 l when brimming.

Cheers R

NordieBoy

10th May 2007, 19:24

It hit reserve and probably 2km later I just squeezed 17.2L into it.
I have no idea what sort of reserve they have though, especially as everyone runs different fuel taps.

I stopped whinging about the rain long enough to install my braided line :D
Had to nick one of the kids syringes to prime it but...
I think I'll like it.

I can probably pick up your bike tomorrow.
Mmmm, braided line, unfamiliar bike, wet conditions, knobblies.
:woohoo:

NordieBoy

10th May 2007, 19:30

Hmmm, Buell headlight $126 + gst, windscreen mount $55 + gst...

cooneyr

11th May 2007, 08:08

I can probably pick up your bike tomorrow.
Mmmm, braided line, unfamiliar bike, wet conditions, knobblies.
:woohoo:

Play nice now please Nordie :shutup:

Thanks for doing this.

Cheers R

NordieBoy

11th May 2007, 08:21

Play nice?
I'll be shitting myself braking for the first corner!

Transalper

11th May 2007, 08:54

You'll just have to test them in the carpark then again a little bit faster on the road just outside the carpark first... before you need them for the first corner that is.

NordieBoy

11th May 2007, 09:10

Boring :rolleyes:
Where's your sense of adventure(riding) :D

warewolf

11th May 2007, 09:21

Or just make sure you fall to the left... :sunny:

cooneyr

11th May 2007, 10:19

Boring :rolleyes:
Where's your sense of adventure(riding) :D

Oh No - I did a bad bad thing - sorry bike :dodge: Pics of the new shiny bits would be nice (hint hint).

Or just make sure you fall to the left... :sunny:

Why to even up the damage to the right???

Cheers R

warewolf

11th May 2007, 12:04

Why to even up the damage to the right???Thought it was the left that was bunged up?

cooneyr

11th May 2007, 12:35

Thought it was the left that was bunged up?

The RHS hit the ground but it was the LHS that got damaged as my left leg tried to go through the handle bars. Apart from the bars there is no damage to the frame, pannels or fuel tank other than a very minor crack in the head light surround.

Even the RHS frame mounted oil cooler survived completly unscathed. Might be something to do with it being swampy ground.

Cheers R

NordieBoy

11th May 2007, 12:42

cooneyr

11th May 2007, 13:01

Left handlebar, right of bike bunged.

Ok.
Man this bike feels small!

My bike:
70-100kph, 4th gear, 3s
70-100kph, 5th gear, 4s

Ryans (kph by OEM speedo):
70-100kph, 4th gear, 4.5s
70-100kph, 5th gear, 6s
80-110kph, 4th gear, 4s
80-110kph, 5th gear, 5.5s
Those times may be totally wrong but were as good as my memory allows.
Tried in 4th and 5th gears to allow a bit for Ryans 15t to my 14t (about 9%).

Still feels like it's pulling nicely but wonder what would happen with the airbox/carb spring/shimmed needle/header weld grind :D

Very tempted to try a 15t front on mine now.

Pics of shiney stuff to follow :D

Good reason to drop the final drive gearing but I wouldnt even bother with 5th on any of the runs you did. Up to about 115 4th is by far the best gear. 5th is very much an overdrive cruise gear for me.

Small in what way? I'm guessing it is the handle bars? They are suppose to be CR high bends but I've not seen them yet. Are the rolled forward yet? Isnt the only other differences the IMS tank and the seat (I like the stock seat when throwing it around.

NordieBoy

11th May 2007, 14:36

cooneyr

11th May 2007, 15:18

Probably will need to tip the bars forward a bit.
I've got KX high bend fat bars (higher and further forward) with riser adapters, big tank and big seat.

Also the first time I've been on a stock seat so that felt weird.
My knees felt like they were around my ears compared to mine.

Gears shift nicely, engine pulls well, front brake I like :D
Felt small and very flickable.

I like flick able. No offense to Plug but after riding his F650 Dakar through the Rainbow on the DB 1 my bike felt positively small which was weird but kinda cool. I can handle the seat (obviously) so apart from the IMS tank I don't think I'll worry about side this too much. Will be interesting to see how the bars change things.

Stand spring feels very soft?
Probs for bumps and cutting out?

With static sag...
My forks are 2cm longer.
Back end 3cm higher.
(Probably just cause my springs are newer?)
Foot pegs 2cm higher.
Seat 6cm higher and 6cm wider.

I think my suspension is definatly on the soft side of rooted. Me being closer to 125kg with riding gear, water, food etc etc then tools, fuel, extra fuel, other stuff on top doesn't help. I've got a quote to do a revalve and spring upgrade but money means this will have to wait for a while yet. Besides its working "OK" so far.

Your stock pipe has a 29mm hole (660mm2).
My stock pipe has a 23mm hole (415mm2).
Sticker on side says "80dB at 3700rpm as according to federal regs".
Mine says "82dB at 3200rpm".
Mine is noiser at lower revs and with a smaller pipe?

Hmmmm - yanky doodle went to town riding on his pony.

I see the even managed to salvage the heated grips - I wasnt expecting that!

Thanks for the pics - youve just made the withdrawal harder - but they are still much appreciated. Dont worry about the chain guard - it's been broken for about 5 months but must do something about it - ally tread plate maybe- got access to a deicent bit.

Cheers R

NordieBoy

11th May 2007, 15:56

Dont worry about the chain guard - it's been broken for about 5 months but must do something about it - ally tread plate maybe- got access to a deicent bit.

Alloy plate?
A pair of holes and a zip tie :rolleyes:

cooneyr

11th May 2007, 16:12

Alloy plate?
A pair of holes and a zip tie :rolleyes:

Yer but a nicely profiled and slotted piece of ally plat would ad some bling. Of course we are NZ'ders and adv riders who make do with what they can find - lacing wire?

Cheers R

NordieBoy

11th May 2007, 16:29

If the wire is rusty or pre-used then it would be ok.

NordieBoy

11th May 2007, 19:50

Oh, did they tell you the trick with the stop/run switch?

cooneyr

11th May 2007, 20:04

Oh, did they tell you the trick with the stop/run switch?

What?????? Off is run and run is off???? Good for confusing somebody!

Cheers R

NordieBoy

11th May 2007, 20:09

What?????? Off is run and run is off???? Good for confusing somebody!

Cheers R
. :woohoo:

cooneyr

11th May 2007, 20:19

. :woohoo:

Built in anti theft and keep R awake switch. :yes:

Cheers R

PLUG

12th May 2007, 00:38

I like flick able. No offense to Plug but after riding his F650 Dakar through the Rainbow on the DB 1 my bike felt positively small which was weird but kinda cool.Cheers R

i concer ... the DR has better front grip than the dirtydakar ... prefer the lounge chair to the plank of 6x1 though ...

NordieBoy

12th May 2007, 09:09

I've got the front grip and lounge chair :D

NordieBoy

12th May 2007, 14:09

And once I replace the scored brake banjo I'll have some front brakes as well :o

warewolf

13th May 2007, 21:23

I've got the front grip and lounge chair :DI've got the front grip, and the lounge chair with vibro-massage!! :gob:

NordieBoy

13th May 2007, 21:45

I've got the front grip, and the lounge chair with vibro-massage!!
And some intense reading lights :D

NordieBoy

16th May 2007, 16:57

Somehow I just did 345km to reserve (20km/L).
I normally get 300-310 max.
I'll see how this next tank goes.
Either the cut carb spring/header weld grind really helped out or I forgot to reset the trip meter at some stage.

Well I got 350km on 17.9L (19.55Km/L) this tank and that was including my 70-100kph full throttle roll-on tests.
The header weld was done 3 days before the end of the last tank but the carb spring was cut the day before the last tank.

Looks like I'm getting more pickup from the header weld and spring being done and the spring is giving me 4km/L better fuel consumption!

I have never gone better than 16-16.5km/L previously.

Transalper

16th May 2007, 20:50

Well I got 350km on 17.9L (19.55Km/L) this tank....the spring is giving me 4km/L better fuel consumption!

I have never gone better than 16-16.5km/L previously.How does that work then?
What does the spring do with in the works?

NordieBoy

16th May 2007, 21:52

How does that work then?
What does the spring do with in the works?

One of the guys on thumpertalk with an air/fuel meter on his DR thought he'd try shortening the stock spring to the same length as one of the aftermarket ones (from 111mm to 101mm) as they were only $4us to replace.
He was very surprised how effective it was in increasing the bottom end and had no noticable downside.
He also finally did the header weld grind and was surprised how much of an effect that had as to to how hard the bike wanted to go, right through the rev range without requireing any jetting/idle changes.

The chopped spring decreases the preload on the carb slide so it moves off the bottom quicker but as the spring is slightly stiffer it is a bit slower to open through the middle/top of the slide slider thingy.

I'm thinking my increased fuel economy must be that the increase in bottom end gets the bike up to the revs quicker and as the slide isn't opening as fully/quickly it's not sucking through as much fuel - Wonder if the guy in the States has found increased mileage?

The header grind is getting the gasses out more quickly, allowing the pipe to work properly - restriction to flow is all in the muffler now so it can do what it's designed to do - so that shouldn't use any more fuel unless you open the other end even more to let more air in and have to richen it up more.

The weird bit for me is that I'm finally getting up to the mileage the US guys get normally :rolleyes: and I couldn't get near that with the bike completely stock.

Ryan's stock pipe looks like it can flow 60% more gas than our little NZ spec ones going by the size of the exit hole so I'd expect that the jetting I used on my first dyno run (removed snorkle, 1mm shim under needle) would do the business on his as well.

Too much thinking, my brain hurts...

Crisis management

17th May 2007, 08:01

Nordie, I've been getting 19 to 19.5km/l from my bike fairly consistantly. I run a cycleworks exhaust and 15/44 gearing with no other mods to the fueling that I know of. I think Merv gets a similar mileage (from previous posts somewhere...) so it is not too hard to achieve.
Your mods to the exhaust header weld should increase the efficiency of the engine but the slide spring shortening should not have that effect.
The CV (constant vacuum) carb relies on the vacuum created in the venturi to lift the needle slide to allow fuel to flow thru the main needle jet. The higher the vacuum, the higher the slide lifts and the greater the fuel flow. There is no mechanical connection between the throttle twist grip and the carb slide, the twist grip operates the butterfly controling the vacuum created to operate the slide.
The common mods to the slide are:
1/ Drilling a second bleed hole thru the slide from the venturi side to the top of the slide (vacuum chamber) allowing a greater vacuum to be drawn on top of the slide opening it faster. This gives faster throttle response, wheelies etc.
2/ Shortening the slide spring which again reduces the resistance of the slide to upward (opening) movement. Again this gives faster throttle response. As he spring provides the balancing force (at constant throttle) it determines the open position of the slide at any engine load, shortening the spring should make the engine run slightly richer as the needle jet will be more open at any engine load now.....
Neither of these mods should increase your fuel mileage just give more throttle response and bottom end / mid range power.

Hope the brain doesn't hurt too much now.......

NordieBoy

17th May 2007, 08:40

Nordie, I've been getting 19 to 19.5km/l from my bike fairly consistantly. I run a cycleworks exhaust and 15/44 gearing with no other mods to the fueling that I know of. I think Merv gets a similar mileage (from previous posts somewhere...) so it is not too hard to achieve.
Wonder what would happen on 14/44?
No jetting mods?
Should be running very lean then?
Even stock I was only getting around 300-305km to the tank.

Your mods to the exhaust header weld should increase the efficiency of the engine but the slide spring shortening should not have that effect.
I'm just trying to eliminate anything from the equation.
It could be something as simple as the carb is sealed better this time when I put it back together...

The common mods to the slide are:
1/ Drilling a second bleed hole.
Done a long time ago - improved the pickup noticeably.

2/ Shortening the slide spring which again reduces the resistance of the slide to upward (opening) movement. Again this gives faster throttle response. As he spring provides the balancing force (at constant throttle) it determines the open position of the slide at any engine load, shortening the spring should make the engine run slightly richer as the needle jet will be more open at any engine load now.....
Neither of these mods should increase your fuel mileage just give more throttle response and bottom end / mid range power.
It reduces the preload on the slide but the spring itself is stiffer when shortened.
I'm tempted to buy a stock spring and put it in and see if there is a difference in km/L.

I know I could just ride the damn thing but I'm nosey :D

Crisis management

17th May 2007, 09:02

It reduces the preload on the slide but the spring itself is stiffer when shortened.

If thats the same spring cut shorter then it is not stiffer, a spring has a compression of "X kgs per mm" as a result of its steel composition / heat treatment and winding rate. Cutting a spring just makes it shorter, it still needs the same a mount of load per mm of compression. You will have reduced the preload on the slide which will alter the neutral position of the slide (sitting higher) and running slightly richer.

As far as my jetting is concerned, I haven't looked in the carb yet so don't know what the jetting is. However, cycleworks recomend their exhaust with stock jetting and the plug looks about right to me. All I was suggesting was, that the 19km/l is readily achievable, rather than a sales pitch that is unachievable.

NordieBoy

17th May 2007, 10:00

a spring has a compression of "X kgs per mm" as a result of its steel composition / heat treatment and winding rate
Yep, "X kgs per mm" at spring length Y.

Compress a spring with 10 winds 5mm and each wind deflects 0.5mm.
If that spring had 20 winds each wind would only have to deflect 0.25mm to get the 5mm total movement so would only need half the pressure.

That's why the boy racers who cut their springs end up with very hard rides - if they're not riding on the shock bumpers.

It was weird seeing all these Yanks getting 20km/L and me with a stock bike getting 16km/L.

Now I'm curious as to whay my bike was getting such low mileage before but I'm not putting everything back to stock to find out :D

Crisis management

17th May 2007, 10:27

Compress a spring with 10 winds 5mm and each wind deflects 0.5mm.
If that spring had 20 winds each wind would only have to deflect 0.25mm to get the 5mm total movement so would only need half the pressure.

This is getting down to nitpicking.......wheres the lice comb!

Unfortunately you are incorrect here.
For example, a 100mm long spring that compresses 10mm per 100 grams will require 500 grams to be compressed to a final height of 50mm. If you cut 10% or 10mm off the spring it is now 90mm long, but still compresses at 10mm per 100 grams: to achieve a compressed height of 50mm tho it will only have to compress 40mm requiring 400 grams of load.
So, if you shorten the spring it will require less load to compress to the same height (preload in the CV spring case).

I'm not even going to go near cut springs in cars.........I've tried explaining that to my son (gangly, pimply, youth standing beside a lop sided mazda with a hacksaw in his hand.....you get the picture?)

I've read the Thumper article about the spring mod and it certainly seemed to make a difference, oh for an air/fuel mixture gauge like that!

As far as mileage goes, my readings are for a cross section of gravel roads and city riding, there seemed to be no difference, I always hit reserve at 180km's and thats about 9 to 9.5 litres.

cooneyr

17th May 2007, 10:48

Yep, "X kgs per mm" at spring length Y.

Compress a spring with 10 winds 5mm and each wind deflects 0.5mm.
If that spring had 20 winds each wind would only have to deflect 0.25mm to get the 5mm total movement so would only need half the pressure.....

I'm a dumb engineer and I still dont get this one.

If we take a spring of 10 coils with a spring rate of X (in kgs/mm) and compare to a spring of 20 coils with a spring rate of X then coils has no difference as the spring rate is still the same (assuming they are both the same length). It is all about the material the spring is made from. Obviously with the second spring the material will have to be different because if it were the same for the 10 and 20 coil spring then the 20 coil would have a higher spring rate. Why then by removing coils does the spring rate change? I think the following is possibly a better way of looking at it?

The vacuum load is the same at a set throttle opening as the vacuum side of the carb doesn't change pressure (for pressure read load over area i.e. load over the diaphragm area which is constant). The vacuum load and the spring load are fighting each other else the slide would jump to wide open throttle at any throttle position.

Before the cut, the spring might have been applying a preload of 0.3kgs (arbitary number) to the slide. Say the vacuum builds up a load of 1kg then to counter we need to build up and additional 0.7kgs of load with the spring to counter the vacuum. If we cut the spring so it is applying 0.1kgs of preload then we need to build up 0.9kg of load with the spring to counter the vacuum.

Say the spring rate is 0.1kg/mm then in the first instance we need 7mm of movement to counter the 1kg of vacuum. In the second instance we need 9mm of movement to counter the vacuum.

Following from this what it also means is that with a cut spring the slide will move sooner as the preload is less. The lower preload equates to a lower vacuum required, which inturn equates to a smaller throttle opening to achieve the same amount of slide movement (say 1mm).

Two points in summary.
1 - the carb will run richer with a shorter spring (I know this is not what you are experiencing Nordie)
2 - the slide will move of the idle position with a lower vacuum i.e. a smaller throttle opening.

In conclusion - cutting the spring is another way of adjusting the richness and responsiveness of the carb but I would suggest it not be done in conjunction with a needle shim unless other mods such as exhaust and airbox to make sure that the bike doesn't end up rich. Drilling the slide and cutting the spring would give the best throttle response. Drilling the slide would seem a much better way to improve responsiveness and shimming the needle would seem a much better way to control richness (as easier to control than moding the spring).

Maybe with both a cut spring and a drilled slide you are getting such good throttle response nordie that you are not opening the throttle as much during acceleration (where you use most fuel round town). Maybe if you do a long distance run at constant speed you might find you use more fuel than previous for a similar run but around town you are using less compared to previous round town runs. Buggered if I know.

Cheers R

P.S. I know my use of load is not quite correct but it will do for this discussion. :innocent:

NordieBoy

17th May 2007, 16:28

If we take a spring of 10 coils with a spring rate of X (in kgs/mm) and compare to a spring of 20 coils with a spring rate of X then coils has no difference as the spring rate is still the same (assuming they are both the same length). It is all about the material the spring is made from. Obviously with the second spring the material will have to be different because if it were the same for the 10 and 20 coil spring then the 20 coil would have a higher spring rate. Why then by removing coils does the spring rate change? I think the following is possibly a better way of looking at it?

But....
If you take that 20 coil spring and cut it in half shouldn't it require double the pressure to get the same amount of compression as the individual coils would have to move twice as far?

Squeezing the leftover 3.5 coils of my carb spring 5mm takes a lot more effort than squeezing the full length one 5mm.

I'll just have to ask someone who knows everything.
Where's a teenager when you need one?

The thing with carbs seems to be that what you think will happen may bear no resemblence to what actually happens.
As mx_rob has found and I'm happy for him to find these things out first :D

Apart from maybe going to a different pipe - stock or otherwise - I think my carb tinkering is over :)

Both tanks included at least 80km of 110kph constant running.
I'll find out more this weekend when this tank is due to empty :D

Signed, Confused of Nelson.

warewolf

17th May 2007, 16:28

If you cut 10% or 10mm off the spring it is now 90mm long, but still compresses at 10mm per 100 gramsThis is the bit I'm challenging: don't think this is correct at all.

If you uncoil the spring into a straight line, it forms a lever. (After all, a coil spring is simply a more compact form of a straight spring.) If you shorten the length of any given lever, you reduce it's mechanical advantage. We perceive this as "stiffer".

Try it with a ruler on the edge of your desk or bench; 10cm hanging over the edge is a lot stiffer than 20cm. The stiffness of the material doesn't change, but the effect of the leverage changes the effect at the free end quite a bit.

Nordie's point about riceboys is readily-visible evidence of this.

Crisis, I think you are confusing shortening the spring to increasing the preload (which shortens it's captive length). Increasing the preload frequently involves the incorrect premise that the spring rate has now changed, since the initial travel (the bit that is felt at a standstill) is "stiffer"; that's where you are right, under those conditions the rate doesn't change.

warewolf

17th May 2007, 16:41

The thing with carbs seems to be that what you think will happen may bear no resemblence to what actually happens.That is because the carb is just part of the whole system of the engine.

Futzing with one small part of the system can have a complex effect on the whole system, but hopefully a positive one.

As a possible reason for your increased fuel efficiency, it seems that the net result of the carb spring change is to keep the slide lower. One of the issues with CV carbs is that they meter the fuel mixture better at small openings as there is a greater vacuum differential, and a higher speed flow through a smaller opening. One of the carb gurus calls this the "signalling strength" of the carb. So it could be that now your just-off-idle system is working better than before... more efficiently. (This is off the top of my head, so I could be arse about face on this one.)

Now on top of all that, making the slide bleed hole bigger tends to lift the slide faster, giving better throttle response at the expense of fuel economy. (I'm just about to do this with my 640.) It could be that you've had your slide lifting too fast, now with a stiffer spring it's lifting slower again... quite possibly just like a standard system! :shutup:

NordieBoy

17th May 2007, 16:49

I'll have to get it back on the dyno sometime and check the torque and air/fuel graphs to see what's changed there.

So...
Who's up to fuel inject their 650?

Has to be easier than carbs :D

Crisis management

17th May 2007, 16:55

This is the bit I'm challenging: don't think this is correct at all.

Right, step outside........you can start without me if you want

Bugger, I just spent 10 minutes disagreeing with you and ended up proving you right.

I hate it when that happens.

I should have stuck to abuse and shouting loudly.

warewolf

17th May 2007, 17:14

I should have stuck to abuse and shouting loudly.Yeah, and then we'd get sin-binned, but at least it'd be what people usually expect on this board. :jerry: :Pokey:

cooneyr

17th May 2007, 17:53

This is the bit I'm challenging: don't think this is correct at all.

If you uncoil the spring into a straight line, it forms a lever. (After all, a coil spring is simply a more compact form of a straight spring.) If you shorten the length of any given lever, you reduce it's mechanical advantage. We perceive this as "stiffer".

Try it with a ruler on the edge of your desk or bench; 10cm hanging over the edge is a lot stiffer than 20cm. The stiffness of the material doesn't change, but the effect of the leverage changes the effect at the free end quite a bit.

Told you I'm a dumb engineer. I hated structures anyway so I'll stick to counting cars.

This is the most logical explanation I've heard. Moment is the correct term for force times distance about a fulcrum.

R

NordieBoy

4th June 2007, 20:21

Aired the tyres down to 25/30 and took Victor through the Maungatapu today.
I don't know if the track was better/cleaner (definitly wet) but it was the smoothest ride I've done through there.
2-up and the DR just kept on trucking.
Felt really stable and went right through and back without any co-pilot dismounting needed.

The rear E-07 is worn down to the centre ridge now but only slid a little in a couple of downhill wet clay sections.

Hmmm, some rim-locks and 18/23psi may be in order for the next solo ride through there.

Here's a co-pilots eye view of the ride (he took 80 odd photos whilst cruizing along).
Not bad for his first time on anything more than gravel.

NordieBoy

15th June 2007, 22:50

Stock pipe went back on (again) today.
DJ150 main and needle 4th from top.
Through the Maungatapu again (the things I have to put up with).
Much better than as jetted for the SuperTrapp (DJ155 main) and can listen to music whilst riding as well now.
Not as much go as with the SuperTrapp (3.5s 70-100 in 4th) but acceptable.

The idea is to get some numbers so I can jet correctly for either pipe as needed.

Crisis management

16th June 2007, 11:49

God its tough living down there....you have absolutely none of my sympathy!

I'm surprised the supertrapp and jetting combo doesn't seem to have worked well for you, is the airbox opened up? Everything I have read indicates they need unplugging at both inlet and exhaust to get the airflow up enough.

By the way, I cleaned up internal weld on the exhaust pipe header last night and I see what you mean by "obstruction", it took about half an hours filing to get it sorted!

warewolf

16th June 2007, 12:41

Through the Maungatapu again (the things I have to put up with).Bit crisp yesterday morning, was it? :yes:

NordieBoy

16th June 2007, 15:21

God its tough living down there....you have absolutely none of my sympathy!
<Nelson>Ha Ha!</Nelson>

I'm surprised the supertrapp and jetting combo doesn't seem to have worked well for you, is the airbox opened up? Everything I have read indicates they need unplugging at both inlet and exhaust to get the airflow up enough.
Oh it works very well indeed and is jetted pretty well spot on according to the dyno.
The airbox, carb, header and pipe have all been fiddled.

But if I want the quiet pipe on (cruizing through the Maungatapu listening to Enya) I want it to be jetted correctly too.

By the way, I cleaned up internal weld on the exhaust pipe header last night and I see what you mean by "obstruction", it took about half an hours filing to get it sorted!
Carbide burr took about 10mins :D
Makes a difference alright.