A noob Policey question

[benbuddy]

hi. im looking at getting a roadbike (sports) as i finally have the money,but im only my R liscence. im looking at 250s bt am very tempted 2 instead get a 400 as apparently they are pretty similar bt are cheaper and a bit more powerful. i was thinking i could just get a 400cc to learn on (im already very experienced with dirt bikes and have ridden my dads road bike a few times, so i wont kill myself on the bigger 400cc bike), and just risk getting pulled over and taking the $400 fine and 25 points. my question is, do bikers with bikes bigger than 250cc get pulled over often by police 4 random checks?(without doing anything wrong). thanks
ps. sorry if this has been asked a million times already!

[Posh Tourer :P]

its your choice.... remember you will need a 250 for the test, and also if you do do anything else wrong, you will get $400 added for breach of licence conditions. Also remember that when you sell your 250, it will also be worth more than a 400 (relatively). So if you lose on the buying, you gain on the selling....

[FzerozeroT]

I've never been pulled over for a random check, always because of speed, however when I did get pulled over for 122 she ignored the passenger and the 1000cc so I suppose that was pretty decent of her.

I had an NC30 before this and have to say that the 400 makes for a MUCH better overall bike than the 250's but not much faster

[benbuddy]

thanks for the comments guys! hmm thats a good point about resale value, should have thought about that. but i think ill go for the 400, just to have a better bike and live for the moment!

[Drum]

Also remember that breaking the conditions of your license will void your insurance.

[McJim]

Also remember that breaking the conditions of your license will void your insurance.

In this case they wouldn't underwrite the policy..400cc on a restricted?

Mind you - every 3rd person I meet on a >250cc bike is on their restricted or learners so you'll be in a majority not a minority if you go ahead.

[imdying]

[QUOTE=Posh Tourer :P;845451Also remember that when you sell your 250, it will also be worth more than a 400 (relatively).[/QUOTE]Only because you paid through the nose to get it. Sure you'll sell your ZXR400 for less than your ZXR250... but the ZXR400 cost $3500 to buy, and the ZXR250 cost $6500.

I think it's a great idea myself. The only fault I can see is finding a 250 to do a test on, if you can cover that, sweet. Ask around... you'll surprised how many people rode GSXR750s and the like on their learners. Of course, they appear to have had their learners for a few years...

[Squiggles]

guy on trademe was selling a cbr400rr a while back... he got an exemption to ride it on his restricted... (cant remember on what grounds but they accepted it)

[marty]

he sounded like a complete twat, but you know what? just get a 400. you may or may not get away with it. just don't come crying though when you get the $1200 fine plus demerits for no L plate, exceeding 70k, exceeding cc restriction, cause this thread WILL get dragged up :)

[imdying]

he sounded like a complete twat, but you know what? just get a 400. you may or may not get away with it. just don't come crying though when you get the $1200 fine plus demerits for no L plate, exceeding 70k, exceeding cc restriction, cause this thread WILL get dragged up :)

You would have to be very unlucky or a prick to the copper to get the book thrown at you in that fashion.

[Ixion]

It has happened. $1300 from memory.

[steved]

It has happened. $1300 from memory.

True. That rider really didn't help themselves by keeping their head down eh? What was it, 130kph in a 50 zone?

[imdying]

There you have it! Ride with your head and not your knob, and you'll be sweet.

[benbuddy]

good points,hmm i dont really see the point in insurance as they only pay out when you are being safe (i believe) but crashes dont happen too often when everythings safe, id imagine. yeah i have a 200 to sit the test on

[marty]

man have you got a lot to learn. what happenes when you stove into the side of a $100k merc - unlicenced, uninsured, unloved, unrich...

[Mom]

thanks for the comments guys! hmm thats a good point about resale value, should have thought about that. but i think ill go for the 400, just to have a better bike and live for the moment!

By all means buy the 400, as people have said there are plenty that have done it and had no problem with the police, but consider the insurance issue, if you are on finance will mean you have to have insurance and it will be void if you crash.....very expensive........:yes:


he sounded like a complete twat, but you know what? just get a 400. you may or may not get away with it. just don't come crying though when you get the $1200 fine plus demerits for no L plate, exceeding 70k, exceeding cc restriction, cause this thread WILL get dragged up :)


I have booked marked this thread just in case.....:blip:

[madandy]

get the 250 mate and get the insurance...plenty of riders have had their bikes replaced by insurance despite the actual circumstances of an accident and the point about you damaging someone elses machinery is very valid!

[Mom]

Yepper, other peoples stuff can be "bankruptingly" expensive to repair.......his call tho eh?

[WarlockNZ]

Its 6 moths ... don't be a dumb ass .. get the 250 and then sell it .. it's people like you my friend that fuck it up for the rest of us.

[Burger]

WAIT!

And then get the 400 with Insurance. Remember, nobody cares but you if you wreck your bike, but if you smash it into a new Bently GT Continental you will regret it for the rest of your financial life.

[Toaster]

man have you got a lot to learn. what happenes when you stove into the side of a $100k merc - unlicenced, uninsured, unloved, unrich...

I agree with Marty dude. The licence restrictions and $400 fines are the least of your concerns if and when it all goes to shit. And believe me it can and it does..... big time. Be careful whatever you decide. You can also get done for No-L plate AND using a bike over 250cc, another $400 each and 25 demerits. Insurance is expensive, but can you really live without it when the comeback on you can be really severe?

In reality, the learners and restricted time periods pass soon enough.

[avgas]

Be careful about your choice of bike- if your busted on cbr/zxr 400 etc.....you may as well give the cops your money now. Something like the 350 goose or a GB400 you can justify becuase they have a slower top speed

[Disco Dan]

well i guess most of us did it.. but posting up on how your planning on breaking the law?? silly silly silly

BUY THE 250 - dont be a fricking prick. The time will pass soon enough.

[SuperDave]

Riding without insurance is stupid.

Say for example you are riding your 400 on a restricted and as a result of this you have no insurance. A car cuts you off and you swerve but there's oil on a road and you tyres tuck and you and the bike go down. You're bike slides and smacks into a 350,000 Porsche or whatever.

Whilst this is not you're fault at all, you don't have insurance. The prick driving the expensive car will probably claim but he'll want to you to cover his excess. Bang, enjoy being slapped a $10,000 bill - TO FIX HIS SHIT.

See with even just a 3rd party insurance, you'd be sweet and have nothing to worry about. However you won't have insurance because you'll be breaching licence restrictions.

Sucks eh? but that's how it goes. An extreme example however.

But it's you're choice.

[duncan_bayne]

In the days of my youth, I found out ... oh, never mind :zzzz:

The one time I got pulled while riding a 400 on a learners was a bad one: I was on an '86 FZR400, at night, speeding, with a pillion passenger, had no L plates, and without my license on me (no pockets on my el-cheapo one-piece leathers from Cash Converters in Palmy).

The resultant fine for breaching so many of my learners restrictions was the final straw; my girlfriend (now my wife) provided the motivation to get around to sitting my test ASAP.

That said, if I'd not been speeding, I'd not have been stopped, and all would have been fine.

Personally, I say buy a cheap 150 (RG, KR, NSR) to suffer through your learners period on (the 250 four strokes are overpriced IMO) and buy a 600 as soon as you're on your full license and can afford it :yes:

[Dai]

In the olden days when I first started riding there were no restrictions upon the size of bike you could start with.

The helmet law was that if you went over 30mph (50kph) or on the motorway you had to wear one.

It digress

I remeber lots of stories back then of people buying Kawasaki 500/750 triples and similarly powerful bikes as a first bike.

Most of these stories usually ended in the telling with a visit to the hospital or the morgue.

I started on a Suzuki TS 125 trail bike. Crashed it lots, toured it loads (Auck to Levin being my longest ride). Learnt how to ride, how to read the road and most especially how not to get too hurt when I fell off.

Get a 250. Learn the skills and then upgrade.

[pervert]

The helmet law was that if you went over 30mph (50kph) or on the motorway you had to wear one.

Fuck I wish that was still the law. :rockon:

[Ixion]

I had a 500 kawa triple (followed a succession of Briddish iron). It tried relentlessly to kill me, plotting malevolently in the gargre all night.

Irealised its intent and sold it after a few months. To another experienced rider.

A couple of years later I came upon the remains in a wreckers, and enquired about it. The guy I sold it to had also gotten wise after a few months, and sold it. To a young guy, his first bike (back then you could ride anything on a learners) . Three weeks after he bought it, he was dead.

[benbuddy]

man have you got a lot to learn. what happenes when you stove into the side of a $100k merc - unlicenced, uninsured, unloved, unrich... i live in invercargill so that isnt too likely,nd if i do ill figure something out.lol

[RC1]

(i believe) but crashes dont happen too often when everythings safe, id imagine.

yeah i thought i would be safe waiting at a red light only to be rear ended by a cage wrote off my new bike and the cage never assume your safe

[Bussaman]

Have you considered an Aprillia rs250 instead of a 400??

[Lteejay]

i live in invercargill so that isnt too likely,nd if i do ill figure something out.lol

Wow - you must have a lot of faith in your own ability to mass produce cash. If you crashed into me without insurance, man :bash:
It's not that long to wait. Imagine when you want to upgrade from the 400 to something else and you dont have the money cause your paying off the BMW

[Grumpy Gnomb]

I agree with all of these comments and best to play by the rules as if you dont something always comes up and bites you in the arse

[JT.]

he sounded like a complete twat, but you know what? just get a 400. you may or may not get away with it. just don't come crying though when you get the $1200 fine plus demerits for no L plate, exceeding 70k, exceeding cc restriction, cause this thread WILL get dragged up :)

Put the crack pipe down or get some glasses, he's on his R.


man have you got a lot to learn. what happenes when you stove into the side of a $100k merc - unlicenced, uninsured, unloved, unrich...

There's a better chance of me winning lotto and I've never bought a ticket.


Its 6 moths ... don't be a dumb ass .. get the 250 and then sell it .. it's people like you my friend that fuck it up for the rest of us.

Its actually 2 years if he just got his L, however he has his R so its 18 or 12 months if he decides to do the ripoff course.

Ben, you'll uninsured and risk a $400 if you get pulled over. As imdying says just ride with your head, whichever bike you choose.

[Ixion]

Just a thought. Next Wednesday the gubbermint is going to announce ANOTHER swag of new restrictions, to "get the road toll down". Rumours have it that some of these will focus on young drivers breaking the conditions of the L and R licences. mainly aimed at car drivers filling the car up with their mates at night on an L , but bikes will doubtless be caught up also. And one possibility that has been bruited is impoundment for breach of licence.

So maybe wait until next Wednesday to decide ?

[Biff]

Riding an off-roader may teach you how to ride a bike off road, but teaches you bugger all about road riding and hazard perception. Hitting the road, a car or anything else hard can hurt a lot more than binning it off road. Granted you probably bin it more off road than on road - otherwise most of us would be disabled by now, or worse..

Don't be a plonker. Stick with a 2fiddy for the time being.

Softly, softly catchie monkey.

[pervert]

Riding an off-roader may teach you how to ride a bike off road, but teaches you bugger all about road riding and hazard perception.

But cars can teach most of that.

I rode dirt bikes for years, then not too long ago went and got a road bike. The day I picked the bike up was my first ride of a legal motorbike on the road, and I rode it home (over 200kms) and haven't had an issue since...

[Biff]

But cars can teach most of that.

I disagree buddy. Motormacycling requires the need to 'tune in' to the hazards around you far more than driving a car ever will. Cars give drivers a false sense of security - if you hit something in the car, chances are you'll walk away. Not with a bike though.

I'm not saying you wont be able to ride a bike on the road - That's a piece of piss. But staying alive, or at least in one piece for your riding lifetime often requires a totally different set of skills than driving a car.

[pervert]

I disagree buddy. Motormacycling requires the need to 'tune in' to the hazards around you far more than driving a car ever will. Cars give drivers a false sense of security - if you hit something in the car, chances are you'll walk away. Not with a bike though.

I'm not saying you wont be able to ride a bike on the road - That's a piece of piss. But staying alive, or at least in one piece for your riding lifetime often requires a totally different set of skills than driving a car.

I'm not debating that, but you said "road riding and hazard perception", the concept is the same, the consequences are the main difference.

When I'm driving a car, I still position myself best, and look for all potential hazards including is this fuckwit in front of me going to pull out or cross lanes into my path. I don't want to fuck up my car OR my bike. My body isn't an issue.

Also pay attention to where I said "most".

[scracha]

But cars can teach most of that.

I rode dirt bikes for years, then not too long ago went and got a road bike. The day I picked the bike up was my first ride of a legal motorbike on the road, and I rode it home (over 200kms) and haven't had an issue since...

So you got lucky.

Riding a dirt bike teaches you how to ride a bike on dirt, how to balance and how to operate the controls. It teaches you @#$ck all about how to ride a rather heavy road bike at high speed on tarmac nor how to deal with other traffic.

I honestly can't believe some of the folks on this thread telling this guy that it's perfectly OK to go out and start riding a 400. A 400 has WAY more torque than a 250. Hell, most countries don't let you learn on a 250. Is this guy such a riding god that a 250cc bike capable of >200Kmph isn't good enough for him until he decides to pass his test? If he's so capable then why not just pass the test first?

Why doesn't he not just go the whole hog and get a GSXR1000 as the cops are less likely to pull him on suspicion of being on a restricted?

Other learners on this site keep demonstrating their lack of restraint with the right hand and lack of common sense with regards to illegally carrying pillions or not wearing safety gear. Encouraging the inexperienced onto large bikes isn't a great idea IMHO.

[Biff]

Also pay attention to where I said "most".

I did pay attention, and I disagree. I was always taught, and practice, that there should be a significant difference between your road positioning on a bike than in a car. Primarily due to the fact that cars are more visible than bikes, so you should ride your bike in order to maximise your visibility to other motorists. This is something that generally, isn't necessary when driving a car.

Hazard perception when offroading is totally different from riding on the road, save for one or two things. So they 'mostly' differ IMO.

Obviously our views differ. Good luck.

[davereid]

Why not get a 200-250cc chook chaser? Road legal, learner legal, do all legal highway speeds, great commuters, fast on the twisties, and then after all that, you get to go on trail rides !
Biff points out that you have to tune - in on the road ; of course he is right, but thats a mental attitude, not caused by or related to the make of your bike. But off road, you will learn balance, braking, counter steering, how to deal with potholes, bumps in the corner and unexpected obstacles on the road. And now they are quite cheap. Bikes like the Lifan LF200 are bloody great learner value at around the same price as a GN 250. What ever else you do, dont get a 400. One mistake could cost $$$$

[Ixion]

with all your skillz and experience, why are you farting about on a 400. You'll only look like a wally when the guys on big bikes blast past you. Don't shag around, go straight to a litre bike. After all, you've got all the skills , right?

BTW , while you're still around can I interest you on a special offer on the giant economy size of "Genoclene" ®. Evolution you can see.

[adiddy]

hey mate,
ive had a bike for a year, and rode dirt for about 10 years!
i got a 250 and for the last year had a lot of fun ... however still on ym restricted because im more focused on sport and am a student I have been riding a 600cc! Each tiemn I ride it i risk a huge fine and its not half as fun as riding a legal bike

I could have been a fool and bought 1 but no - listen to the majority of advice these guys give .
Experience mate you cant beat it- live from others mistakes

Peace Out ADIDDY/Aaron

[Balding Eagle]

There are none so blind as those who will not see!! If you think that you are so shit hot; go ahead and disregard the law. HOWEVER, understand that when you have an accident, it will be all down hill. If you hit someone who owns an expensive car, you can guarantee that they will drag you through the courts until your eyes water. They will probably lose money on the effort but they will be able to afford it and will do it to teach you a lesson. If it was me, I would take you to the cleaners. I am a strong believer in personal responsibility. You are not being responsible for your actions and as such do not belong on the roads in any shape or form. I suspect that you are a male under the age of 25. I suggest that you grow up and try to behave as though you have past puberty and adolescence and are prepared to take up the responsibility of adulthood.

[pervert]

There are none so blind as those who will not see!! If you think that you are so shit hot; go ahead and disregard the law. HOWEVER, understand that when you have an accident, it will be all down hill. If you hit someone who owns an expensive car, you can guarantee that they will drag you through the courts until your eyes water. They will probably lose money on the effort but they will be able to afford it and will do it to teach you a lesson.

What crap, the person who owned the expensive car will get a payout from their insurance company minus excess, then the insurance company will try and claim the money out of the person at fault using the courts if needed - first payments going to the car owner to cover the lost excess.

In plenty of cases the person at fault ends up paying whatever amount at $10 a week for who knows how long...if they pay at all...big deal...

[WarlockNZ]

This is becoming pointless.

I think the bottom line here is that people need to be responsible members of society and there are people that just don't give a shit ...

A lot of them seem to have posted on this thread ...

So how this ... step up .. be a fuckin man and accept that the law is the law and is there for your protection ... if you want to disregard the law, that's your choice, but when you crash into my car .. I'll be disregarding the law as well and I'll be smacking your stupid head in with a tire iron.

It's fuck wits like you and the others in this thread that agree with you, that fuck it up for the rest of us and i, for one, won't be standing as an honour guard at your funeral, because, you know what .. you will die and do you know why?

It's because your a Dumb Ass!.

:done:

[megarich]

Well said Warlock.

[pervert]

I'll be disregarding the law as well and I'll be smacking your stupid head in with a tire iron.

I'd love to see how that would pan out...hahahahahaha...any way would be entertaining...but I'd be betting on the guy without insurance...

[WarlockNZ]

I'd love to see how that would pan out...hahahahahaha...any way would be entertaining...but I'd be betting on the guy without insurance...

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury ... I rest my case.

[pervert]

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury ... I rest my case.

Correct, if it panned out in your favour you probably would be the one facing the jury...:yes:

[benbuddy]

fuck. some of you need 2 settle down! i was just wondering if a 400 would be better than a 250 since i have experience in opertating a bike,and driving on the road. some of you are all being fucking retards saying that i said im hot shit etc etc (you are only saying that because you are edging the other people along,listening to hear-say instead of what i said myself,how stupid) thanks for the people who could understand what im saying and answered my question properly (positively AND negatively),as i thought this would be a good place 2 ask questions about fucking motorbikes. oh,if all you faggots get so angry that easy,maybe your emotions have too much of a grip on you to let u ride a bike. especially you,"warlock"

[Fub@r]

Pervert the main point here is:

If an insurance company can avoid paying out they will. If you are riding a bike outside of your license conditions and someone rear ends you for example and totals your bike and you survive that insurance company will pull out all the stops to not pay out as you were on the road illegally.

And if you do have the misfortune of slamming into a really expensive car and seeing your really smart declare yourself bankrupt to avoid it..........just dont expect any finance for the next 7 years.

To those that say chances of hitting an expensive car is low, tell that to the people that that totalled my mates 100k Merc on a learners license..........they are still paying to this day 8 years later and trust me they are paying more than $10 a week!

[WarlockNZ]

fespecially you,"warlock"

You have my appoligies for my outburst. I do tend to get emotional about this subject as i have had a car written off by an uninsured biker.

In nicer terms :) .. regardless of your ability, riding outside the conditions of your license is never a good idea :)

Now i'll go back to my corner and shut the hell up .. lol

[scumdog]

What crap, the person who owned the expensive car will get a payout from their insurance company minus excess, then the insurance company will try and claim the money out of the person at fault using the courts if needed - first payments going to the car owner to cover the lost excess.

In plenty of cases the person at fault ends up paying whatever amount at $10 a week for who knows how long...if they pay at all...big deal...

Plenty of people end up paying after insurance companies 'go' them for the damage caused - sure a FEW end up paying "$10 a week" and it may seem a giggle to you - but try and get a loan, a good credit rating etc when you owe $20,oo or similar in reparation.

The ones that end up paying a meazly $10 a week are probably peaking in life and are never likely to get anywhere anyway so getting a good credit rating etc is not likely to be an issue for them........

[Balding Eagle]

They say that you shouldn't hit send after a few beers. It was 10 at night, I was in LA and it was after a social evening and I was surfing my favourite website.

Nuff said BUT.

I was rear ended by an uninsured driver in October last year. The first comment of concern from the driver was "I am not insured." She was taken to court for dangerous driving causing an accident, found guilty and ordered to pay costs including the insurance company for the damage to my car and another, and the medical expenses that I incurred. Neither the insurance company nor myself have seen a bean. Now she is being taken to the other courts of the land for restitution. It might be a fruitless task but she will be taken to the cleaners if she does have any money.

So now you might see where I am coming from. There are organisations within this country who are trying to advance the position of NZ bike riders (BRONZ for example) who have a hell of a tough time with stupid politicians because there are too many in the biking community who are irresponsible and they see that there is a need to legislate against them. If all bikers were responsible in this regard, those trying to do their best on our behalf might have greater success.

However, I am sure you are under 25. You should read some books on human brain development. It is a fact that the frontal lobe does not become fully developed until the age of 25. Insurance companies don't pick this as an arbitary age. Until the frontal lobe is fully developed, we lack the ability to comprehend the dangers of our actions. This is why all the fighting forces of the army and airforce are populated with those under the age of 25. After this age you realise that you are no longer bullet proof and you are no longer so keen to try and kill someone because you then realise it might happen to you.

Might I strongly suggest that you give up the idea of the 400 until it is legal. There are plenty of 250s out there with sufficient power. I started on a Honda Hornet 250. I don't think it would be allowed in the UK as a learners' bike because they have a power limit of 33hp and don't worry about cc rating. The Hornet left many a bike behind.

Some sound advice (which you did ask for) from an older bugger.

[imdying]

Don't ride like a twat, keep your head down, and you'll be fine.

The legal aspects are bit neither here nor there to me. Sure, you run the risk of being pulled and ticketed. You'll take a financial hit, but that is somewhat offset by the excessive price you'd otherwise pay for a race rep 250.

The saftey issue is one that only you can address in your own mind. Bikes can be savage teachers, and generally the more powerful, the more savage. Go riding like you're Rossi when you're learning, you'll hurt yourself. But you could do that on any bike. Sure, the extra 150cc make is a little easier, but a ZXR400 is far from an unmanageable beast.

Your obligations to other in terms of damage payments... one would like to think you'd honour those if it were to become an issue. 18 months isn't that long a time to keep your nose clean though, again is comes down to not riding like a twat.

If you can manage that (because of course, some clearly can't, someone on here who had a ZXR and now has a car is a fine example), then go right ahead. You'll be a minor criminal for sure for 18 months, but I for one won't be lumping you into the rapist/drug dealer collective.

Basically you've heard all of the pros and cons, this thread has pretty much run its course. Only you can decided whether the pros outweight the cons.

Something else to consider... the major advantage is not being raped in the wallet by buying a race rep 250 (you could of course get a GN/CB). It's worth remembering that you'll probably be able to sell it in 2 years for reasonable money. Something else to think about is that the money you'll 'save' by getting a 400 might be eaten by the aforementioned fines, or repaying someones insurance ;)

[scracha]

You'll be a minor criminal for sure for 18 months, but I for one won't be lumping you into the rapist/drug dealer collective.

Unless he kills someone like so many other learner and restricted drivers in vehicles too powerful for them?

If you're riding over a 250cc bike on a restricted then you're basically unlicensed. The roads are a scary place with all the unlicensed (not to mention pissed or high) drivers in this country in high performance vehicles or 4x4's and I wish they'd increase the penalties and start putting more of them in jail.

A lot of you seem to be implying to this guy that the law is an ass and it should be ignored with regards to riding a 400. I'd agree the law is an ass but only as far as allowing 15 year olds to drive and letting restricted riders out on 250's.

Like it of loathe it the restricted licensing system was implemented for a reason and it HAS reduced young driver deaths and injuries.

I honestly hope "benbuddy" buys a 250 and has a lot of fun on it before sitting the full license.

Benbuddy: The only "stupid / fucking / emotional / retard / faggots" (did I miss any of your nice adjectives?) are the unlicensed riders/drivers who are to arrogant to obey a perfectly valid law IMHO

[fatnold]

insurance works.....7k for plastics and etc on a 2 week old bike!

[Pukuriri]

Unless he kills someone like so many other learner and restricted drivers in vehicles too powerful for them?

If you're riding over a 250cc bike on a restricted then you're basically unlicensed. The roads are a scary place with all the unlicensed (not to mention pissed or high) drivers in this country in high performance vehicles or 4x4's and I wish they'd increase the penalties and start putting more of them in jail.

A lot of you seem to be implying to this guy that the law is an ass and it should be ignored with regards to riding a 400. I'd agree the law is an ass but only as far as allowing 15 year olds to drive and letting restricted riders out on 250's.

Like it of loathe it the restricted licensing system was implemented for a reason and it HAS reduced young driver deaths and injuries.

I honestly hope "benbuddy" buys a 250 and has a lot of fun on it before sitting the full license.

Benbuddy: The only "stupid / fucking / emotional / retard / faggots" (did I miss any of your nice adjectives?) are the unlicensed riders/drivers who are to arrogant to obey a perfectly valid law IMHO

:Punk:

Need any more be said?

[mstriumph]

good points,hmm i dont really see the point in insurance as they only pay out when you are being safe (i believe) but crashes dont happen too often when everythings safe, id imagine. yeah i have a 200 to sit the test on

crashes can happen ANYTIME

many at low speed

and many when YOU are doing everything right and some twerp in a car collects you 'cause he "didn't see you"

[mstriumph]

fuck. some of you need 2 settle down! i was just wondering if a 400 would be better than a 250 since i have experience in opertating a bike,and driving on the road. some of you are all being fucking retards saying that i said im hot shit etc etc (you are only saying that because you are edging the other people along,listening to hear-say instead of what i said myself,how stupid) thanks for the people who could understand what im saying and answered my question properly (positively AND negatively),as i thought this would be a good place 2 ask questions about fucking motorbikes. oh,if all you faggots get so angry that easy,maybe your emotions have too much of a grip on you to let u ride a bike. especially you,"warlock"

with respect, they aren't the only ones that need to 'settle down'

this is an open forum - all sorts here and they're a good bunch, mostly.

if you hang around long enough you'll learn who's giving you a straight opinion and who's just winding you up .... 'til then, mebbe chill a little?