How about a higher open road speed limit for bikes? [Archive]

Toaster

8th December 2006, 20:38

Our main roads are getting a lot better than they used to be.... there is more traffic on the roads.... congestion is an ever increasing problem.... bikes use less fuel and take up less road space and parking space than cages with one noddy in them in rush hour. Bikes are better than they used to be.... rider education is better if you seek out the training.... bikes also stop faster when used properly.

Trucks/buses/trailers have a lower speed limits, so why can't they raise the bike speed limit to at least 110kmh on open roads (therefore no tickets until 121kmh?). I reckon it at least has some merit. Waddaya all think? Maybe do a poll???? (I'm new on KB so excuse me if this was done before).:Punk:

Swoop

8th December 2006, 20:41

Trucks/buses/trailers have a lower speed limits,

Please come to Auckland (I know you are in Auckland...) .... the speed limit when towing a trailer is at least 100kmh.

Toaster

8th December 2006, 20:51

Please come to Auckland (I know you are in Auckland...) .... the speed limit when towing a trailer is at least 100kmh.

True...... what WAS I thinking!

JimO

8th December 2006, 20:56

how about no speed limit for bikes on state highway 1

Indiana_Jones

8th December 2006, 20:59

New rule: Bikes can do whatever they fucking want? :D

-Indy

Toaster

8th December 2006, 21:01

how about no speed limit for bikes on state highway 1

with all the nutters in cages out there??? I seriously need to get to the track and let loose!

sanchez

8th December 2006, 21:02

I dont think this has a hope, the LTNZ are unable to think further than SPEEDKILLSSPEEDKILLSSPEEDKILLS.

Toaster

8th December 2006, 21:07

What about these idiots in cages then.... the cow doing her make-up in the mirror kills, the dick on his cellphone reading the map kills, the truck driver right up my ass kills, the old fogey who pulls out cause she cant see killls....................

Toaster

8th December 2006, 21:08

.... not actually UP my ass.....

scumdog

8th December 2006, 21:32

When ALL bikers can handle 100kph in all situations THEN maybe raise the speed limit.

Until then leave it at 100.:yes:

Toaster

8th December 2006, 21:35

When ALL bikers can handle 100kph in all situations THEN maybe raise the speed limit.

Until then leave it at 100.:yes:

thanks for the good comment, cheers.

BAD DAD

8th December 2006, 21:56

.... the cow doing her make-up in the mirror kills, the dick on his cellphone reading the map kills, the truck driver right up my ass kills, the old fogey who pulls out cause she cant see killls....................

I agree with Toaster on this point

marty

8th December 2006, 21:58

New rule: Bikes can do whatever they fucking want? :D

-Indy

i thought that WAS the rule?

Toaster

8th December 2006, 22:02

I agree with Toaster on this point

Thanks Bad Dad.

Toaster

8th December 2006, 22:04

We CAN do whatever we want.... we just might get someone come along who makes us stand before a dude with a wig and gavel and he may have his wicked way with us for our badness.

xwhatsit

9th December 2006, 02:26

I see more problems than benefits here. Speeding enforcement suddenly becomes a whole lot more difficult; fixed cameras especially. Don't talk about buses, trucks, learner bikers having lower speed limits, because generally these are not enforced anyway. In terms of benefits, I don't see too many. 120kph isn't that much faster than 100kph; many of us here would do 110-120kph anyway along motorways without raising an eyelid. Many sportbikers here would not bat an eyelid at 180kph along a motorway... with a choice between +60kph and +80kph there's not much difference.

Your main argument, apart from the unwritten obvious reason of the personal pleasure of riding faster than everybody else, seems to be congestion on the roads. Having a faster bike limit does diddly shit for that; only a maniac would be lane splitting at 120kph in 100kph traffic (or 110 kph traffic most often, at least in Auckland). Or lane splitting at 120kph in 30kph traffic due to the aforementioned congestion.

Oh and by the way, you mentioned bikes when ridden properly can stop quicker than cars; haven't we had this argument many times before? No, bikes cannot brake better than cars -- the very best sportsbikes with a very experienced rider can by a small margin, but the rest of us, we're worse than any n00b in an old Jap import planting his foot on the brake pedal.

scracha

9th December 2006, 07:18

Couldn't have the bikes going faster than the cars now could we? They'd both have to go up and that would result in carnage giving aspects like the negligable braking distance cars leave at the moment. I could only reasonably support this if they raised the driving age and improved training for cage drivers and motorcycle riders.

DingDong

9th December 2006, 08:04

I think its pointless... your not going to get anywhere that much faster.

The Coro is good at 100kph and so is the Kaimai and if you happen to be doing 140kph the cops cant clock you anyway as long as you slow on the straight bits.

I say leave it at 100

jafar

9th December 2006, 08:20

raising the limit for bikes only wouldn't do much except make the tickets a bit cheaper if/when you do get a ticket.
If LTSA were to do anything they would probably drop the speed limit for bikes as we don't wear seat belts or obey their rules anyway.:scooter:

Toaster

9th December 2006, 08:55

All good comments people, thanks for contributing :)

James Deuce

9th December 2006, 13:37

The open road speed limit will probably be 80 km/hr within a couple of months.

SwanTiger

9th December 2006, 14:39

Please come to Auckland (I know you are in Auckland...) .... the speed limit when towing a trailer is at least 100kmh.
Struth.

The open road speed limit will probably be 80 km/hr within a couple of months.

I highly doubt that.

James Deuce

9th December 2006, 14:45

Struth.

I highly doubt that.

I don't . The 100km/hr limit is likely to be Motorways only. The rest of the road network with be 80 km/hr. Watch the news on Wednesday of this week.

doc

9th December 2006, 15:24

I don't . The 100km/hr limit is likely to be Motorways only. The rest of the road network with be 80 km/hr. Watch the news on Wednesday of this week.

My money is with Jim2 on this one. They are making it safer for us. Healthier too we will all have huge performace sucking catalylitic converters and large sound deadening cans that will slow us down.

SwanTiger

9th December 2006, 15:33

I don't . The 100km/hr limit is likely to be Motorways only. The rest of the road network with be 80 km/hr. Watch the news on Wednesday of this week.
It will be a sad sad day. Then again in the car I very rarely go over 100 kmp/h on the open road so floating around 80 kmp/h won't bother me. Guess I i'll stick with my plan of buying a track bike instead of another road bike :yes:

Lou Girardin

9th December 2006, 15:38

We are getting an 80km/h limit by stealth now, it'll just mean more runners.
As far as a higher limit for bikes goes, I haven't seen any evidence that the majority of rider's skills could justify it.

slowpoke

9th December 2006, 20:28

I don't . The 100km/hr limit is likely to be Motorways only. The rest of the road network with be 80 km/hr. Watch the news on Wednesday of this week.

Pleeeeaase tell me this is something you are SCARED of happening rather than something you are SURE of happening.

If it does come in it'll be another case of dragging everyone down to the lowest possible skill level. Rather than keeping idiots off the road they treat everyone like an idiot. Political expediency to the extreme.

I'm hoping it'll be seen as political suicide, and they won't have the balls to do it no matter how they twist the statistics. Then again the lunatics are in charge of the asylum so anything could happen.

Well, that's it, decision made: if the open road speed limit is lowered to 80klicks I'm outta here. It's bloody hard to feel proud of your country when you are treated like a gimp.

Roll on Wednesday.....

Meekey_Mouse

9th December 2006, 20:52

James Deuce

9th December 2006, 21:03

Pleeeeaase tell me this is something you are SCARED of happening rather than something you are SURE of happening.

If it does come in it'll be another case of dragging everyone down to the lowest possible skill level. Rather than keeping idiots off the road they treat everyone like an idiot. Political expediency to the extreme.

I'm hoping it'll be seen as political suicide, and they won't have the balls to do it no matter how they twist the statistics. Then again the lunatics are in charge of the asylum so anything could happen.

Well, that's it, decision made: if the open road speed limit is lowered to 80klicks I'm outta here. It's bloody hard to feel proud of your country when you are treated like a gimp.

Roll on Wednesday.....

You're assuming that the rest of the road using population has the same passion for driving or riding as you do.

A quick canvas of my rellies today came out 80% in favour of dropping the speed limit. They're mostly middle class "right" thinking Kiwis too. The anti-speed campaign has been going on so long that most people who use personal vehicles for transport believe that speed literally kills.

It won't be political suicide, it will be hailed as the most amazing safety initiative ever and will fit in nicely with the coming anti-carbon emissions campaign that will make the anti-drink driving, and anti-smoking campaigns look like childishly overt market manipulation.

It would be political suicide to oppose the speed limit drop. I sincerely hope it doesn't happen, but the pseudo-scientists have taken over and there are a whole pile of "facts" being used to justify just about anything. It only takes a week of trotting out tragedies to convince a "majority" of kiwis of anything these days. Norway has an open road speed limit of 80 km/hr and fines that would make your eyes water. Guarantee their road death rate per head of capita is used as one argument to justify the move without any mention of the car ownership rate per head of capita.

If it doesn't happen this electoral cycle, it will happen in the next.

slowpoke

9th December 2006, 22:40

You're assuming that the rest of the road using population has the same passion for driving or riding as you do.

A quick canvas of my rellies today came out 80% in favour of dropping the speed limit. They're mostly middle class "right" thinking Kiwis too. The anti-speed campaign has been going on so long that most people who use personal vehicles for transport believe that speed literally kills.

It won't be political suicide, it will be hailed as the most amazing safety initiative ever and will fit in nicely with the coming anti-carbon emissions campaign that will make the anti-drink driving, and anti-smoking campaigns look like childishly overt market manipulation.

It would be political suicide to oppose the speed limit drop. I sincerely hope it doesn't happen, but the pseudo-scientists have taken over and there are a whole pile of "facts" being used to justify just about anything. It only takes a week of trotting out tragedies to convince a "majority" of kiwis of anything these days. Norway has an open road speed limit of 80 km/hr and fines that would make your eyes water. Guarantee their road death rate per head of capita is used as one argument to justify the move without any mention of the car ownership rate per head of capita.

If it doesn't happen this electoral cycle, it will happen in the next.

To quote Dr McCoy, "It's life Jim, but not as we know it."

Gaaawd, I'm depressed..........

Motu

9th December 2006, 22:47

Lowering the speed limit will also improve fuel economy - at 85kph I get an improvement of more than 20% for my Pajero.That's a significant amount of fuel spread over all road users....our fuel reserves are of major concern,more than road deaths I'd say.

madandy

10th December 2006, 08:22

Interesting to note that, so far, 39 in favour of increasing the limit by 20km/h to 30 in favour of leaving the limit alone. & a handfull want an extra 10 clicks.
Despite the evidence pointing to an 80km/h limit on many roads more people here want to increase the speed differential between their vulnerable selves and driving zombies! just think of your selves travelling 40km/h faster than everything else...yeah yeah...who travels at 100km/h anyway? well for those that do the speed differential would create some havoc.

Really what you're asking is for yourselves to be treated differently to everyone else on the roads while lacking any proof to suggest that you'll never have an accident where your speed effects your injuries...

I'd love an increased speed limit...but not for everyone! So it aint gonna happen:mellow:

xwhatsit

10th December 2006, 14:21

I'd be wary of interpreting a poll on KB as being representative of... well... anything!

Hell, I'd like to have a higher speed limit for me on the road (that is, if my bike could carry me at 120kph with any level of comfort), but I don't necessarily think it's a wise idea. Like somebody said earlier in the thread, the majority of bikers (certainly not me) don't have the skills to justify a raised limit.

Another point is that, if they do lower the open road limit to 80kph, it will be the same as if they raised it to 120kph -- largely irrelevant to many bikers who pay little heed to the posted limit anyway. In some ways in NZ an 80kph limit would be almost justified; we have seriously twisty roads here. In Australia I would be pissed off if the made you travel at 80kph on big wide open roads with not a corner in sight, but our roads are different. I would be pissed off if they lowered it, but I could understand the reasoning behind it, even if it is a little bit too much mollycoddling for my taste.

adiddy

10th December 2006, 16:00

dude, and following what has happened in the last week i would have thought it would be wise to keep the speed at what it is!!

not being rude or anything but it is not just ourselves we have to be wary of but the others around us !
we ride in an open environment we do not control the situation and raising the limit would mean we barely in control of ourselves

My Thoughts
Adiddy

Swoop

10th December 2006, 16:33

I wonder if there is a certain time of day when accidents happen in greater numbers? Perhaps the drunks go out at night and kill themselves in greater numbers. The solution would then be to ban all driving after dark...

If the government wants to lower the speed limit, the manufacturers of this nation (before we have everything made in China) will have to increase costs to make up the shortfall in delivery costs.
Political suicide? Maybe not, but, however, it would be putting the barrel in the mouth and placing the finger on the trigger.
The loser? Once again, the frontline police officer...

AllanB

10th December 2006, 17:00

sinned

11th December 2006, 11:51

I'm old enough to rember whe nthe open road limit WAS 80km - back in the 80's fuel crisis. Car less days etc. Mind you you could get pulled over doing 120 and 90% of the time you would only get a verbal warning. Try getting that at 40k over the limit now!

I got pulled over in late 80s for 132Km in a cage. Cop was going the other way and did a rapid u turn. I immediately stopped so he didn't have to chase me. "Why were you speeding sir?" My reply - "I wasn't concentrating on my speed". He suggested I watch my speed and let me off. Fat chance of that happening now. I

mstriumph

11th December 2006, 11:58

When ALL bikers can handle 100kph in all situations THEN maybe raise the speed limit.

Until then leave it at 100.:yes:

noooooooo - well - sorta kinda
how about rather a system of graduated licences .......... where bikers on a standard licence stay at the current limit but those on an advanced licence [which would involve compulsary further training and testing] can go faster?

----------- would actually be a great incentive to stay within the higher limit, actually, if you could LOSE the priviledge if you abused it?

whatd'ya think??

ManDownUnder

11th December 2006, 12:03

SHIT.... There's a limit??

Actually yeah, although the speed limit needs to take a couple of things into account. Vehicle capabilities, driver capability, road conditions and other drivers.

Nice idea that falls rapidly into the "too hard" basket in my personal opinion

Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)

11th December 2006, 12:10

I don't . The 100km/hr limit is likely to be Motorways only. The rest of the road network with be 80 km/hr. Watch the news on Wednesday of this week.

FFS walking will be faster.
You will get the Sunday drivers doing 60 km - god forbid Hawkes Bay drivers do that now when it's at 100!!

Definitely time to invest in a radar detector. When I'm going at speed - I have full concentration and awareness. When forced to go 100k's I'm bored shitless, less concentration and more liable to make mistakes.

Ixion

11th December 2006, 12:11

Considering the casualty rates for motorcyclists (ie, the fact they they keep crashing) it would be very hard indeed to justify a differential increased speed limit for them relative to other road users.

In fact, it would be VERY easy to justify a LOWER speed limit for bikes. Because we are more vulnerable and therefore should not go so fast.

This would be VERY easy for the government to do (in fact they already do it for learners) so I think it would be wise to keep very quiet on the subject of different speed limits.

Hawkeye

11th December 2006, 12:19

I'd be wary of interpreting a poll on KB as being representative of... well... anything!

I have to agree with you there. Doing a poll about speed on a bike forum is like asking a group of alcoholics if the price of beer should be reduced. - rather biased.

James Deuce

11th December 2006, 12:23

Why hasn't the price of beer been lowered? Ale too, lager, pilsner, and stouts.

terbang

11th December 2006, 12:24

Squeak the Rat

11th December 2006, 12:28

Out motorways aren't as safe, they have corners. That's why there are so many crashes at Tip-Top corner on the auckland southern motorway, and why the speed limit is 80kph through spaghetti junction.

Or maybe it's our drivers that can't handle them. And half the drivers on the motorway aren't comfortable doing 100kph, let alone 120.......God knows what sort of chaos that would create. It works overseas because people a) good road design, and b) people keep left (it's law).....

terbang

11th December 2006, 12:32

Our motorways aren't as safe, they have corners.

Last time I rode on the Autobahn and Stuart highway there were corners. Its all about our road rules and our driver education.

TLDV8

11th December 2006, 12:38

I dunno about increasing the speed limit just for bikers but I would support a general increase in the speed limit especially on motorways. A good look overseas shows the 110-120kph mark on motorways to be fairly normal. Germany's Autobahn and Northern Teritory's Stuart highway are extreme examples of no speed limit but those people are better educated at driving than we are.

That is the difference between here and oversea's......With things like the Autobahn and the motorway/interstate system in the US and UK you don't actually need to be a good driver to cover vast distances.
You become a good driver by default.
I think the open road speed limit in the US is only around 65 mph.
Most open road driving in this country is a lot more technical overall given the terrain.
Anyone having trouble driving on multi lane straight motorways with gentle turns needs to hand their license in and do the rest a favour.
The problems start when folk come off those motorways onto B roads and have to actually think,some will have no problem based on preservation for both their passengers and themselves,not forgetting respect for other road users .That is common place anywhere in the world and not limted to NZ.
*
Imagine trying to float the idea of open roads and vehicles now...Say what,you are suggesting these metal boxs can cross over into the oncoming lane to pass each other based on the drivers judgement of how far away the oncoming vehicle is......and in the wet,Ohhh, at night also,Say what,have a couple of beers to,no prob's ...Ummm ok. :wacko:

Ixion

11th December 2006, 13:00

Why hasn't the price of beer been lowered? Ale too, lager, pilsner, and stouts.

No no I couldn't support that. That would lead to increased consumption and increased alcohol related problems. Just Speights should be reduced in price. Speights drinkers are mature and wise enough to handle it.

quickbuck

11th December 2006, 13:12

That gets my vote.
Except at Two bucks per pint it is already cheap enough for me....

madandy

11th December 2006, 19:07

I have to agree with you there. Doing a poll about speed on a bike forum is like asking a group of alcoholics if the price of beer should be reduced. - rather biased.

Yet, to date, 43.8% of us voted on no change to the speed limit. I bet 43% of alcoholics wouldn't say not to cheaper booze:yes:
There are some road racers here that have a thing or two to learn about their own fallibility(sp?) but many are clued up enough to know that changing the speed limit to a higher point will only make it legal for more people to travel beyond their skills.

NZ roads would require much signage and posted speed limit changing between areas. While many stretches could handle higher average cruising speeds, they are joined together by narrower, twistier sections where most kiwi sheep get confused and brake mid corner and forget to accellerate until half way down the straights...our highways & byways are still too rural to have many vehices travelling along at 120+ and the overall standard of drivers in particular is low.
You can't rely on kiwi's to make educated calls about road conditions or corner entry speeds, hazard identification etc as they aren't bloody educated.
Bike riders seem to have much better understanding of these skills than drivers and many actually attend training events but how many employ these skills when they're out there carving up the bends and flying down straights on their hotted up super bikes?
I attribute many motorcycle accidents to the roads we ride on. Not so much the surfaces, though they are pretty crap but the shear beauty of so many of our roads that make many beleive they are on a secluded peice of track all by themselves. We grow up on twisty roads, learn to ride on twisty, slippery roads and come to expect the right to ride these roads in an exciting way.

Toaster

11th December 2006, 20:31

Thanks for all the great contributions... really good to get so many points of view. Cheers! (drinking speights)............

lukelin250

11th December 2006, 22:26

they could start by making the roads safer, the speed can increase.:yes:

Toaster

16th December 2006, 22:07

vamr

16th December 2006, 22:15

It's always about the lowest denominator, status quo of predecessing "laws" and effort vs reward.

So to summaries, tomorrow will by and by be pretty much like today.

xwhatsit

17th December 2006, 00:36

I reckon there are a few good stretches on open roads with barriers that could do with a general speed limit increase to 110kmh, so we dont have to fear cameras taking impromptu photos and sending us the bill. Take SH1 south of Auckland and also north of Albany where its multi-laned... everyone does 110 anyway, so why not make it legal.... so we can squeeze 120 without expecting a bill from Uncle Helen and the revenue gatherers.

I see your logic there. In Queesland, the open road speed limit is 100kph, like here. So are most motorways. However, on a certain few roads, the big long wide ones where you can see for kilometres, they will signpost them as 110kph.

Of course, everybody over there does the reverse of NZ -- they drive 10kph under the speed limit, instead of 10kph over lol.